petitnjHaving the front set of cars not accordioned is not much evidence for hand brake conditions.
I did not mean to suggest that the head nine cars not being accordioned was an indication of whether or not hand brakes had been set. My point was that the non-accordioned condition would make them relatively less damaged than the accordioned cars. And the lesser damage might make it more likely that the hand brakes had not been released by forces in the crash.
Here is an article that details some guidelines for setting hand brakes to hold a train:
http://news.yahoo.com/insight-quebec-train-set-too-few-brakes-deadly-013726461.html
From the link:
HOW MANY HAND BRAKES ARE ENOUGH?
MMA has said its handbrake policy was adopted from safety guidelines set by a much larger railroad, Canadian Pacific Railway Ltd. Canadian Pacific declined comment.
Earlier this week, Burkhardt told Reuters he believed the MMA engineer had complied with company rules and standard rail industry practices in securing the train. On Wednesday, he told reporters the worker likely failed to set enough handbrakes, violated company policy, and was now suspended without pay. He did not detail what caused his revised views.
An online copy of Canadian Pacific's General Operating Instructions said at least nine handbrakes must be set on a parked train of 70 to 79 cars, but additional brakes "may be required" if the train is parked on a grade.
Rival railroad Canadian National provides more specific instructions, recommending that crews activate the handbrakes on 40 percent of all railcars when a train is idled on a 1-1.4 percent grade, according to a Transportation Safety Board report in April.
If MMA's engineer had followed the 40 percent guidance, he would have had to activate about 29 brakes.
"There's always some amount of judgment. It's a balancing act between what will hold the train and what is operationally feasible," said Rob Mangels, senior mechanical associate at R.L. Banks & Associates and a locomotive engineer and trainer.
Mangels said handbraking 20 to 30 cars on a 72-car oil train would be typical. A longtime Canada-based locomotive engineer and brakeman, Doug Finnson, said he might activate handbrakes on 25 railcars before leaving a train of that length on a flat surface, or more brakes if it was on a decline.
In the United States, freight train operators generally apply handbrakes on every fourth car, another expert said.
Other experts questioned whether MMA's engineer took enough time to secure the train. According to investigators, the train pulled onto the tracks at Nantes around 11 p.m. local time. MMA said that the engineer had secured the train by 11:25 p.m.
"That seems like a short period of time to secure the train," Colorado-based railroad consultant Robert Stout said, adding that to activate a brake, a worker must walk between the railcars, climb up a ladder and turn the brake wheel, sometimes up to forty times.
MMA's Burkhardt said it may be impossible to verify how many handbrakes were set before the disaster, due to extensive damage to the rail cars. Police say 200 investigators are sifting through the charred wreckage.
To properly secure a train
1. Apply the number of hand brakes stated per rule. release air brakes and see if train begins to roll. If it stays stationary - without air or engine air brakes applied - train is secured.
2. If it begins to roll, apply air brakes to stop it and apply additional hand brakes. Repeat procedure identified in #1 to test. Once train is secured then apply engine hand brakes and secure train air brakes as required by rule and Power Brake Law.
Just applying X number of hand brakes, without testing their effectiveness is not securing the train.
It is not ROCKET SCIENCE nor is it intended to be.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
tree68Setting every nth car would be a massive PITA, as a relieving crew would have to check the brakes on every single car to see what the relieved crew set. For a 100 car train, with a one man crew, in the dark...
So! They do NOT inspect the train before departing.
NYCT requires the crew putting the train in for the day to walk around both sides checking brakes and that all of the wheels are on the rails. Of course the train is only 600' long. (LIRR trans can be 1020' long). They must also walk through the train checking roll signs, air conditioning, and BTW: the hand brakes are set and released from INSIDE of the train. I guess nobody really wants to walk through an oil train, but there it is.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
It was the height of irresponsibility to routinely park loaded oil trains at the top of a 7-mile grade leading to a 10 mph curve in the middle of a town; with the only protection being a hodgepodge of rules, procedures, perception, and judgment about winding up 10-40 hand brakes to a certain extent. Anybody with an ounce of common sense could see that the risk was unreasonable.
It certainly sounds like common sense was lacking.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
BaltACD To properly secure a train 1. Apply the number of hand brakes stated per rule. release air brakes and see if train begins to roll. If it stays stationary - without air or engine air brakes applied - train is secured. 2. If it begins to roll, apply air brakes to stop it and apply additional hand brakes. Repeat procedure identified in #1 to test. Once train is secured then apply engine hand brakes and secure train air brakes as required by rule and Power Brake Law.
Good point. After setting car hand brakes, we release air brakes and push on the train with the locomotive to see if it is secured (if it rolls at all or if the rolling stops after the push). That is about the same as seeing if the train will roll, but breaks the static friction of the brakes to the lesser dynamic friction. We do park our trains on a siding with about 0.8% grade but the siding is protected by a derail and we normally set at least 50% of the hand brakes and put down wood and steel wheel chocks.
i suspect this test will be a highlight of our training messages this week.
BucyrusMMA has said its handbrake policy was adopted from safety guidelines set by a much larger railroad, Canadian Pacific Railway Ltd. Canadian Pacific declined comment.
I wondered what were the conditions like on this line back "in the good old days" or its "best day ever", so I looked at the book "Canadian Pacific in the East" by Omer Lavalée, and at an online copy of an ETT from 1951, posted on the Canadian Pacific Historical Association website.
My observations: It was a very Anglo world when the CPR was in charge. Lac-Mégantic was known as Megantic, Nantes(pronounced nance, rhymes with dance) was known as Spring Hill, and Laval Nord, as noted on the diagram in the National Post, was known as Echo Vale.
The maximum speed for freight trains was 40 mph. And the most interesting thing, the grade down to Megantic was not considered steep or curvy enough to have any Permanent Slow Orders. However, in Megantic, the B.T.C. (Board of Transport Commissioners, forerunner of the TSB) required that trains observe a maximum of 10 mph, and provide their own flagging, over the crossing at Frontenac St., now Rue Frontenac, because of the number of tracks. This is the street beside the switch for the wye to the line from the Quebec Central(abandoned in the 1980's), where the wreck seems to have started. In Mr. Lavalée's book, pp. 100, there is an eerie picture taken in 1954 of this crossing, which must have been only feet, if not inches, from where the derailment started.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
Here is a predictable development in the wake of the disaster:
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/railway-revolt-brews-as-lac-megantic-residents-confront-the-future-1.1367301
Railway revolt brews as Lac-Megantic residents confront the future
A key question on many locals' minds is whether the railway, seen by some as a regional economic lifeline and by others as the "train from hell," should ever pass through the downtown area again.
Many residents here are quick to explain that they don't want the trains back.
After the derailment, that defiance was spelled out in black upper-case letters on a handmade sign. It was posted at the railroad's edge, close to Clusiault's home.
"You, train from hell," reads the placard in French.
The anger in town has led to some discussions that residents should rip up the tracks themselves.
The catch is that many local businesses -- and jobs -- depend on those rails to survive, said the director of the region's economic-development centre.
Bucyrus Here is a predictable development in the wake of the disaster: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/railway-revolt-brews-as-lac-megantic-residents-confront-the-future-1.1367301 From the link: Railway revolt brews as Lac-Megantic residents confront the future A key question on many locals' minds is whether the railway, seen by some as a regional economic lifeline and by others as the "train from hell," should ever pass through the downtown area again. Many residents here are quick to explain that they don't want the trains back. After the derailment, that defiance was spelled out in black upper-case letters on a handmade sign. It was posted at the railroad's edge, close to Clusiault's home. "You, train from hell," reads the placard in French. The anger in town has led to some discussions that residents should rip up the tracks themselves. The catch is that many local businesses -- and jobs -- depend on those rails to survive, said the director of the region's economic-development centre.
Apparently there has been some discussion/planning of building a realignment of the M,M & A ROW to move it away from the downtown for a while, long before the accident.
I would guess this will happen sooner rather than later..
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
I just wanted to be post #400.
Here is how the Sierra Club is looking at the issue of shipping oil by rail:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/11/opinion/schafer-oil-by-railroad
Rail is the most efficient way to move freight, and Sierra Club is a big fan of rail for transporting people and conventional freight. But moving extreme fossil fuels, like Bakken shale or Alberta tar sands, is a different story entirely.
These fuels are "extreme" because they are more toxic and more carbon intensive than conventional oil. They are also more dangerous to transport than conventional sources of oil. Production in the Bakken fields has increased nearly 10 times since 2011. To move all this crude, oil rail companies are running longer, heavier trains. And they are running them farther than ever before, bringing crude to refineries on the East, West and Gulf coasts.
The regulatory framework for train safety wasn't designed for crude oil trains, and the rail and safety infrastructure is out of date and not up to the task.
Earlier today the media was allowed into the outer edge of the "Red Zone". There were pool reporters allowed. So I have provided links to the two Calgary newspapers to show a range of photos of the site. Because of the pool arrangement there are duplicates.
http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/07/16/runaway-train-engineer-devastated-lawyer
http://www.calgaryherald.com/story.html?id=8667633&tab=PHOT
One other item I picked up in passing was that at this point only 9 of the 72 tank cars have been emptied/cleared of their cargo. The clearing process is expected to take several weeks.
zardoz I just wanted to be post #400.
I don't know if this ruins your day, but the way I figure it you are reply #400, post #401.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Some positive news this afternoon... MM&A is laying off some workers in Farnham, QC BUT WILL RECALL THEM WHEN THE LINE IS REOPENED.
Ed Burkhadt often resorts to sarcasm as a defense when he responds to criticism over the crash. When discussing his company’s culpability in the cause of the crash, he said this:
“And of course our one-person crews will be blamed, as will track conditions, neither of which had any relationship to what occurred. I guess our track is good for 63 mph, because that is how fast the train was travelling at the bottom of the hill.”
So if anybody doubts that Mr Burkhardt’s track is good enough, he has got a fatal runaway train to prove his track can take the speed.
And then he wonders why the people of Lac-Megantic throw rocks at him.
I guess I'd argue with him over one detail...his train crashed at the bottom of the hill. and I'll bet when they come back there will be two people on each train.
Good point. His track is good for 63, but not 64.
Ed Burkhardt has a history of being anti-union and running a bare-bones operation (WC). Perhaps because of the parallels, some folks liken him to the Ayn Rand character and thus he has been admired in some circles.
narig01One question. In order to move this cargo does the shipper have to mix in other materials or solvents to get it to flow easily? Thx IGN
You may have read that the tar sands heavy oil is sometimes diluted with a light crude such as condensate, so as to make it flow easier. However, the Lac Megantic disaster involved Bakken oil which is a light crude. The Sierra Club does not like Bakken because the wells are "fracked" after drilling. The frac fluid is recovered before the wells are put into regular oil production, so I don't know what their issue is with the oil's composition.
If you will permit me to share a comment previously posted on the Fred Frailey TRAINS blog:In my view this entire tragedy calls for a number of responses, none of which for now include attacking MM&A executives or the, you can be sure, deeply traumatized engineer.We do not know what happened to set off the run-away train. There is endless speculation, but we do not know. Before entering into recriminations we must find out.There are matters which are fit for discussion and review, which revolve not solely around bashing the operating practices of the MM&A, or any lonely employee, but rather much of the industry.Does it make sense to poerate any long trains and particularly hazerdous materials trains with a one-man crew? Are the hours in service practices prevailing appropriate to such trains as a 70+ car oil special. (Canada does not have the US 12 hour rule set in stone in its regulations).As much as the industry desired to be rid of cabooses, would it perhaps be wise to use them not only on a few yard movements, but routinely on long road freights involving hazardous cargoes. Setting hand-breaks on a 70 car train would obviously have gone faster and almost certainly with more review if staff had started from both the head and rear ends of the train.FRED devices may adequately monitor brake pressure when a train is moving, but they can not "see" a shifted load, nor a car part way through the train, but closer to the rear of a mile-long freight than what can be observed from the cab. And if the engineer is properly watching the approaching railway how can he/she reasonably also check on the train behind on a routine basis?Should trains ever be parked for an extended stay on a steep grade? If they must be should portable derails be provided for use in front of the train in the direction that a roll-awawy could occur?Are the types of tank cars being used for new types of petroleum shipments appropriate to what are not standard fuel-oil cargoes?For those of us who care about the industry these sorts of questions deserve far more consideration than matters of "guilt" which the authorities and the railroad will address after a proper investigation. Not every RCMP or QPPF (Quebec Provincial Police Force) officer may underatand railways, but they will be aided in their investigation by Ministry of Transport and railway investigators who do. Until they report and until there are results from any subsequent trials no one person is guilty of anything.The industy needs to focus on policy and practice.Carl H. FowlerPresident'CHF Rail Consulting LLCRail Travel Adventures
RailvtCanada does not have the US 12 hour rule set in stone in its regulations
I don't think the Canadian rules are any less set in stone than the comparable US rules.
Transport Canada's Work/Rest Rules for Railway Operating Employees spells it out like this:
This accident has caused some people to start questioning the safety of the oil trains that come through my town. So far my activist neighbors aren't up in arms about it, but that could change.
The member formerly known as "TimChgo9"
Regarding the comment above by Carl Fowler, I agree about the need for the industry to respond to a number of issues that he mentioned. And I agree with his preference to not attack the engineer. However, I disagree with his preference to not criticize Burkhardt.
In the first place, in everything I have read in the news, and in all of this discussion here, I have not heard one comment attacking the engineer.
But there is a boatload of criticism directed at Mr. Burkhardt, but not for him causing the crash. The criticizing of Mr. Burkhardt is for his childish, tone deaf response to the disaster. I am sure that most of the citizens of Lac-Megantic do not need a lecture about it being improper to blame somebody until all the facts are known. Mr. Burkhadt’s attitude is the one fact that they are responding to, and it is as plain as day.
Furthermore, regarding the attacking of the engineer, it is only Burkhardt who is attacking the engineer. The people have heard the engineer's claim of having set hand brakes on the engines and cars. They heard Burkhardt back up that claim by the engineer. Many news articles wonder why Burkhardt backed up his engineer one day and stabbed him in the back the next day. I am sure the people of Lac-Megantic wonder about that too. Many of those people know the engineer personally, and they have also experienced the character of Mr. Burkhardt. It seems evident that most of them are not about to jump on the engineer based on the shifting testimony of Ed Burkhardt.
Here is a great article highlighting how Burkhardt has botched the public relations of this tradegedy:
http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/Railway+boss+Edward+Burkhardt+plants+foot+mouth+after+Megantic/8655472/story.html
"I mean, they were screaming about how I took three days to get there," Burkhardt told CNN Thursday. "People wanted to throw stones at me. I showed up and they threw stones. But that doesn't accomplish anything." Of course, bad mouthing people overcome by raw emotion doesn't accomplish much either.
UlrichWHEN THE LINE IS REOPENED
Russell
I read one article that said that the people of Lac-Megantic have offered a prominent excavating contractor large sums of money to remove the MM&A tracks from the town. But they are thinking of leaving one rail in place in case they need to run Burkhardt out of town on it if he shows up again.
About the post of only a few cars have been off loaded. The location of the accident may have very few 7000 - 8000 gallon tanker trailers available or even small trucks. Many of the trucks and trailers in that area may have other commitments. + also may not be suitable to carry this product ?. Specialized pumps may also be needed ? Then where will the oil be taken ? It may be the closest location to take this oil is what was its final destination ?
One result may be the parking of any train on a descending slope may have to be looked at much harder. Suspect we may see many derails go in at some of these locations ? HOS should be changed to allow for on the law crews to take a train to a "safe " location ?
Bucyrus I read one article that said that the people of Lac-Megantic have offered a prominent excavating contractor large sums of money to remove the MM&A tracks from the town. But they are thinking of leaving one rail in place in case they need to run Burkhardt out of town on it if he shows up again.
According to the CBC news last night, the people actually want the railway, even now. There is some heavy industry there and the MM&A does offer I direct connection to Central Canada and the US.
I take Burkhardt's statements with some consideration. He made them at what was probably the worst moment in his life. How would you and I react under similar circumstances? I don't know. It is easy to say we'd make all the right moves..
For those of you interested, here is a link to NASA where there is a nighttime photo from space of the fire: http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=81581&src=eoa-iotd
On a related note, here is a link to a NASA photo of the area surrounding the Royal Gorge bridge and how it has survived the area wildfire: http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=81634&src=eoa-iotd
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