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Roundhouses and Turntables (and transfer tables)

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, November 20, 2011 11:48 PM

Here's one you can't see on the satellite images, but it's definitely still there - former Lackawanna, Utica, NY:

N 43.10769 W 75.24242

Here's a pit that is no longer active (although there are those who would like to restore it - Remsen, NY:

N 43.33105 W 75.18574

For NY, you might want to check here.  Should keep you busy for a while...

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, November 19, 2011 9:29 PM

Here are three more from Colorado

Segundo, CO     37° 7'16.39"N 104°43'42.69"W     C&W     TT&RH footprint

Trinidad, CO     37°10'51.20"N 104°29'48.13"W     C&S     TT&RH, dism, RH footprint

Trinidad, CO     37°10'28.68"N 104°30'21.72"W     AT&SF    TT&RH, dism

Traces of the first two can be seen on Google Earth.  The last one was pinpointed from the Trinidad (West) 7 1/2 minute topo map 1951 edition.  The site is partly covered by the I-25 interstate.

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Posted by BNMRR44 on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:01 AM

In San Antonio, TX Greenbrier Rail Services built a repair facility on the former Kelly Air Force Base in what is now known as the Rail Port part of Port San Antonio. It includes a transfer table used to move cars between a series of parallel storage tracks on the west side and a covered work area on the east as well as the lead tracks along the south side. Looking at Google it may be hard to identify at first because the actual transfer track is hidden under a covered work platform due to the photo angle. The coordinates are:29º 22"28.47'N  98º 32" 56.92' W.

In Albuquerque, NM there is a transfer table just north of the turntable you have on your original post for NM. It is between the two large workshop buildings and again hidden in the shadows on the Google view. It was built as part of the major steam maintenance facility AT&SF had there. It is now owned by the City of Albuquerque as part of the future Wheels Museum project. Coordinates:35º 4" 30.57"  106º 39" 0.15'

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:55 AM

Didn't look to see if this one is on the list yet, but here it is anyway:

Bowdoin, Montana - ex-GN: The turntable pit is at these Lat./ Long. coords. (per ACME Mapper 2.0): N 48.39673 W 107.59821

Per a post here by Buxtehude earlier today re: "The Ghost Yard in Montana" at:  http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/198826/2171693.aspx#2171693

- Paul North. 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, October 14, 2011 6:16 PM

Here are a couple of more southern NY locations:

Maybrook, NY     41°29'34.30"N 74°12'26.90"W     NH     TT&RH, dism, RH footprint

Warwick, NY     41.2518,-74.3732      L&HR     TT&RH, dism, RH footprint

The Maybrook location was not on the NY website.  The Warwick location was on the site but listed as TT only.  On Google Earth for both locations you can see the radial footprint of the RHs.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, October 11, 2011 9:38 PM

The 3 states I'm most familiar with all have roundhouse lists.  NY and Michigan have been previously mentioned.  Colorado has a site (make sure your Google Earth is already on)

http://www.railfanrails.com/maps/colorado_rhdlf.html

I imagine most states have a site.  I also found an interesting site that waymarks about 90 RH&TT around the world.

http://www.waymarking.com/cat/details.aspx?f=1&guid=95611418-b408-4bea-8425-3f97d2922c19&st=2

Happy hunting.

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Monday, October 10, 2011 8:29 PM

MidlandMike

I had noticed the outline of the old Brewster RH, and I have no problem with the marker being moved closer to a visible remnant as opposed to an inferred TT location.

I also researched other locations on the Harlem Division.  Apparently Pawling once has a TT, but I could only find the replacement wye on the old topo maps.  I had better luck with Chatham at the end of the line.  Chatham 7.5 minute quad (1953) can be downloaded from the Historical Collection at http://nationalmap.gov/  There was a TT without obvious RH inside of the wye.  This seemed like overkill in the turning department, however, I found some answers in a 
TrainBoard forum entitled "What defines an Engine Facility?":

"The following is a layout of an actual branchline terminal that existed until the 1960s.
In Chatham, NY, where the NYC Harlem Division terminated at the Boston & Albany mainline, there was a turntable for turning Harlem engines and a small roundhouse for minor maintenance. There were also two interchange tracks that ran either side of the turntable and roundhouse, but also used to wye Harlem trains. One leg allowed Harlem trains to go east into Massachusetts, and the other leg allowed NYC Hudson Division trains from the west to reach New York City in case there had been a wreck on the Hudson.
So what you had was a wye with a small engine terminal in the middle, a good use of cramped space."
I put the location as the center of a vague circular outline in the 1994 view on Google Earth, as it seemed to coincide closely with the map:
Chatham, NY      42°21'34.59"N 73°35'59.80"W     NYC     TT & small enginehouse, dism.
My location differs slightly from the one on  http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/Roundhouses/index.html   I would not be surprised if there were additional facilities at the Rutland RR terminal across the B&A tracks, but it was abandoned just before map publication.

 

WOW!  Scotty's list will keep me busy for weeks!  I may contact him to see if he has done similar for other states.

 

 

Semper Vaporo

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, October 10, 2011 1:46 PM

I had noticed the outline of the old Brewster RH, and I have no problem with the marker being moved closer to a visible remnant as opposed to an inferred TT location.

I also researched other locations on the Harlem Division.  Apparently Pawling once has a TT, but I could only find the replacement wye on the old topo maps.  I had better luck with Chatham at the end of the line.  Chatham 7.5 minute quad (1953) can be downloaded from the Historical Collection at http://nationalmap.gov/  There was a TT without obvious RH inside of the wye.  This seemed like overkill in the turning department, however, I found some answers in a 
TrainBoard forum entitled "What defines an Engine Facility?":

"The following is a layout of an actual branchline terminal that existed until the 1960s.
In Chatham, NY, where the NYC Harlem Division terminated at the Boston & Albany mainline, there was a turntable for turning Harlem engines and a small roundhouse for minor maintenance. There were also two interchange tracks that ran either side of the turntable and roundhouse, but also used to wye Harlem trains. One leg allowed Harlem trains to go east into Massachusetts, and the other leg allowed NYC Hudson Division trains from the west to reach New York City in case there had been a wreck on the Hudson.
So what you had was a wye with a small engine terminal in the middle, a good use of cramped space."
I put the location as the center of a vague circular outline in the 1994 view on Google Earth, as it seemed to coincide closely with the map:
Chatham, NY      42°21'34.59"N 73°35'59.80"W     NYC     TT & small enginehouse, dism.
My location differs slightly from the one on  http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/Roundhouses/index.html   I would not be surprised if there were additional facilities at the Rutland RR terminal across the B&A tracks, but it was abandoned just before map publication.

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Sunday, October 9, 2011 12:40 AM

Thanks Mike.  Good research.  I triangulated the North White Plains the tiniest bit farther north, but I'll defer to your Lat/Lon.

However...   Google Earth  shows a vague outline of the roundhouse at Brewster in the historical images that is further north of your coordinates.

Here are the latest additions.

USA MA Cambridge  42°22'32.64"N  71° 4'33.93"W
USA NY Brewster  41°24'28.19"N  73°37'22.43"W
USA NY Mechanicville  42°54'28.35"N  73°42'0.68"W
USA NY North White Plains  41° 3'20.61"N  73°46'13.66"W

That makes 612 in the U.S.A and 169 outside the U.S.A.,    781 total.

 

Semper Vaporo

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, October 8, 2011 1:13 PM

When I was a teenager in the early 60s we lived in the northern suburbs of New York.  Riding northbound trains on NYC's Harlem Division thru the North White Plains yard, you could look down the diesel engine terminal lead to the turntable.  At the time this was where the 3rd rail ended, and the engines were changed from electric to diesel.  The following link shows a 1965 pix of the roundhouse being demolished while a diesel is being turned on the turntable.  The view is to the west toward the electric shops.  The turntable probably lasted until at least 1984 when electrification was extended to Brewster.

http://sbiii.com/wkoch-rr/NYCRoundhouseDemolitionatNoWhitePlains8-65.jpg

Brewster also had TT & RH, but I didn't get to ride there until decades later.  According to a local historical website, they were demolished in 1952 upon dieselization.  There was a "why" available with a long stem (a remnant of the Putnam Division) that could have been used to turn trains.

Old topo maps show TT&RH.

N.White Plains  http://historical.mytopo.com/getImage.asp?fname=wtpl38se.jpg&state=NY

Brewster  http://historical.mytopo.com/getImage.asp?fname=brws46sw.jpg&state=NY

The above sites are listed as easy references.  However, to pinpoint the locations I used a recently expanded site at   http://nationalmap.gov/

It is put out by the agency that publishes the USGS topo maps.  It has a map viewer (when you get there, check the overlay layer "Scanned Topo Maps").  It also has a comprehensive and growing collection of historic topo maps.  They are about half done scanning all old topo maps, and they're all available as free downloads.  There you will also find a link to a useful GIS toolbar called TerraGo, which is also a free download.  I used these to get the coordinates and to double check against measurements from offsetting street intersections.

Brewster, NY       41°24'27.02"N 73°37'21.96"W     NYC    TT&RH, dism

N. White Plains, NY    41°3'20.61"N, 73°46'13.66"W    NYC    TT&RH, dism

 

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Monday, October 3, 2011 4:18 PM

Oh, yeah - you're on solid ground [pun ?] with this one.  Check out the photos and comments at the bottom of this webpage: 

 http://northeastfoto.com/forums/showthread.php?4092-B-amp-M-Roundhouse-Troy-NY-06-30-2006&s=3952b759a9eab5b708988ee559419f99 

And/ or, do a Google search for:  "B&M + turntable + Troy", and then just pick whatever looks good or of interest.

Before I started looking, I was wondering if it would be the one a little further north at the now-defunct Mechanicville Yard, where the B&M and D&H interchanged trains "back .  See N 42.90785 W 73.70022 (per ACME Mapper 2.0) in its "Topo" button view - now just west of a street cul-de-sac, but east of what look like radial concrete lines, and north of 3 baseball diamonds, etc.  Is that one in your list yet ? 

Finally, at Alburtis, PA, there's a small one that was either ex-Reading RR (East Pennsylvania RR, and/ or Catasauqua & Fogelsville RR), or possibly the Lock Ridge Iron Furnace's line, at about these coordinates (also per AMCME Mapper 2.0): N 40.51243 W 75.60117  It's long gone and is hard to find documentation of it - but about 3 months ago I saw a Valuation Map circa 1917 that shows it.  Unfortunately, that Val Map is pretty large both physically and as a PDF or TIFF file (about 2 MB), so I'll have to find a way to find it again, then snip a portion out of it, and then scan and post it somehow.  Alternatively, if you contact me off-list via a PM/ "Conversation", I could e-mail the file to you - let me know either way. 

This link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catasauqua_and_Fogelsville_Railroad - also says there was yet another turntable a few miles south at the end of the line at Rittenhouse Gap - first I've heard or read of that one !  It would have been about here: N 40.46776 W 75.62967  I'll have to research that one further, too. 

- Paul North.  

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Monday, October 3, 2011 2:45 PM

Mike:  Most interesting.  On Google Earth there is a Places marker near the building labeled Troy Tool & Engineering Inc.  And over that long building to the south is another marker that is labeled, Troy Boiler Works Inc.

Switching to Street View (there are views of the building from 3 streets) the back of the building looks very much like a RR roundhouse, but the front of the building appears to be new construction and so does not look much like a RR roundhouse.

I think I will be adding that site to my list.  The evidence is pretty good.

USA NY Troy  42°44'42.63"N  73°40'49.70"W

Semper Vaporo

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, October 3, 2011 2:06 PM

The thing that bothered me about Troy, was that on the Trains list they show it as B&M rather than D&H.  I didn't think they were referring to the old D&H Colonie shops.  I followed the former B&M north from the union depot area and saw this interesting building along the former ROW at

 42°44'43.22"N,  73°40'49.95"W

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Sunday, October 2, 2011 12:54 PM

In the process of looking at the reference to the Railroadforums thread to find Norden, I found two turntables; at Lowville, and Croghan, NY.
 
The references to the Troy, NY, D&H Colonie yard sure pinpointed the location of the turntable and roundhouse.
 
Very good eye Zwingle!... we now have an Alaska site: McCarthy, AK
 
As for some of the references being repeated from other lists.  I am kind of wondering if some of the other lists were just listing structures that were built in a circular or semicircular shape, and not specifically as "Roundhouses" to be used by railroads.
 
And as for "errors" from anyone... ha, I can't complain at all... I keep finding sillies in my list that I have to correct; misspelled city names, wrong states! (those bother me!).  Witness, that I had to fix Clifton Forge, VA (again!).  And the Mt. Carmel with a roundhouse is the one in Illinois, not Indiana, so I have corrected that just recently and issue this apology to the residents of both states.

Not only that, but I have not been very consistent in my descriptions of some of the sites (that info has not been posted here, but is in both my Google Earth KMZ file and the Excel spreadsheet that will be published eventually).  I am trying to come up with a consistent nomenclature to describe the sites in addition to just saying that there was a Turntable or Roundhouse... such as "Working", "Re-purposed", "Relic", "Outline" or "Footprint", or "None", for describing the roundhouse; and something similar for the Turntable: "Working", "Overgrown", "Pit", "Outline", "Track Fan", or "None".

But then I never know how to list a site where there used to be a nearly full circle of a roundhouse, but is now a small square building with a switch where the turntable used to be.  Several places I have listed a site as being actively in use, but I sometimes go back to check something and discover the site is now a residential neighborhood, a shopping mall parking lot or an Interstate cloverleaf intersection, and there is no evidence there was ever a RR for miles around.

Also, I try to make the Lat/Lon of the site to be the center of the turntable, but I have found that Google Earth does not always get the various year's Historical images registered to the same place, and the middle of the turntable "moves".  A turntable can be pinpointed to a certain Lat/Lon and in an image from another date will show the turntable in a different place, sometimes by as far as the diameter of the turntable or more.  My method also does not indicate in which direction the roundhouse was situated from the turntable.
 
I am keeping a copy of my master files on a web site so at least there is a backup that is not where my main PC is... just in case!

Here are the latest additions:

USA AK McCarthy  61°26'5.21"N 142°55'10.23"W
USA MI Ann Arbor  42°16'4.80"N  83°44'42.92"W
USA MI Bay City  43°36'33.18"N  83°53'36.93"W
USA NY Croghan  43°53'37.26"N  75°23'51.77"W
USA NY Lowville  43°47'21.07"N  75°29'12.96"W
USA NY Troy  42°42'53.88"N  73°42'56.19"W
USA PA South Easton  40°40'54.18"N  75°13'25.66"W

Semper Vaporo

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Posted by MidlandMike on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 10:51 AM
Here are 3 more Michigan sites that I have not seen in the thread.  The Bay City entry is another Michigan Central RH site in addition to the one already on your list.  The new entry is close to downtown; your existing entry is commonly referred to at the Wenona Yard.
 
Ann Arbor, MI     42°16'4.72"N, 83°44'42.97"W     AA      TT, overgrown

Bay City, MI     43°36'32.61"N, 83°53'38.11"W     NYC (MC)     TT&RH footprint

Cadillac, MI     44°15'59.95"N, 85°24'21.84"W     PRR (GR&I)     TT&RH converted to lumber yard, dism ca.2000

The current Cadillac single stall replacement engine shed is located about 500' SSW of the roundhouse site.

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 7:55 AM

(South) Easton, Pa:  OK, here's a link to a photo and a couple of threads of this turntable (by golly, it did have a roundhouse back in the day !):

Aerial photo:  http://forums.railfan.net/Images/LV/LVRR_roundhouse_shops_Glendon.jpg 

"LV in Easton & Phillipsburg":

 http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=LV;action=display;num=1299208479;start=1 

 "100 years ago today at Easton> roundhouse collapse" (Oct. 14, 2004):

http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=LV;action=display;num=1097758470;start=2 

Lansford, PA will have to wait for another day (may be a long wait - I don't have any personal knowledge and not much info on that area).

- Paul North.    

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Posted by Zwingle on Tuesday, September 27, 2011 8:21 AM

I apologize for the labeling errors.  Also, Truckee, CA wasn't centered properly. This should be right on top of the remaining footprint.

I have to give credit where due. My daughter actually found the roundhouse in Rhinelander, WI

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Tuesday, September 27, 2011 12:19 AM

Latest updates as of today, but I am way behind on verifying info from all the posts in the last few days... I'll get there, it just takes time.

USA AR Little Rock  34°43'6.66"N  92°15'36.16"W
USA AR Little Rock  34°45'39.11"N  92°16'44.93"W
USA CA Daly City  37°41'1.90"N 122°27'55.74"W
USA CA Santa Barbara  34°24'59.68"N 119°40'33.29"W
USA CO Stirling  40°37'21.99"N 103°12'12.37"W
USA FL Jacksonville  30°19'41.62"N  81°42'42.51"W
USA KS Neodesha  37°25'8.36"N  95°41'23.87"W
USA ME Milltown  45°10'37.85"N  67°17'33.51"W
USA ME Portland  43°41'8.95"N  70°15'33.64"W
USA ME Searsport  44°27'33.69"N  68°53'54.23"W
USA MT Lewistown  47° 2'27.19"N 109°24'46.75"W
USA MT Melstone  46°35'50.10"N 107°51'47.36"W
USA MT Missoula  46°52'32.90"N 113°59'25.02"W
USA NE Emerson  42°16'27.32"N  96°43'43.68"W
USA NY Barretto Cove  40°48'26.56"N  73°53'54.44"W
USA NY Plattsburgh  44°41'49.53"N  73°26'36.61"W
USA WI Rhinelander  45°38'37.59"N  89°24'49.25"W

 

Semper Vaporo

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Tuesday, September 27, 2011 12:16 AM

The 2nd of Zwingle's long lists from 09-25-2011 1:51 PM


Truckee, CA:  I don't think the lighter area in the Flash Earth (and Google Earth) is a section of a "round"house.  One image on Google Earth shows it to be clearly rectangular with no curved edges.  I do see (wishful thinking I am sure) 3 places where the filled-in turntable might have been.  Does anyone have a good knowledge of the area that can pinpoint the center?


I Screwed up again and put Bucklin in Illinois... I have corrected my list and apologize to both states.


The one labeled as San Francisco is in Daly City, near Colma.  Why is it labeled as San Francisco?


The 1st Little Rock, AR I have listed as North Little Rock.  Verification/clarification anybody?


Bartlett, NH: your link take me to 44°6'27.1"N, 71°10'45.6"W which is just south of Glen, NH.  Bartlet has a remnant of a roundhouse at:  44° 4'36.23"N,  71°17'13.49"W.  About 5.5 miles apart.


Fort Erie is in Ontario Canada, not NY.


Auburn, NY: Your coords are west of mine.  Your "Earlier image" is to the same image.  Mine are to a standing curved structure but no TT.


Your 2nd Buffalo, NY I have listed as Lackawanna, NY.


Your 4th Buffalo, NY I have listed as W. Seneca, NY.


Your Richmond Hill, NY I have listed as Jamiaca, NY.


Your Morris Park, Long Island, NY resolves to the same location as Richmond Hill

 

Semper Vaporo

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, September 26, 2011 5:57 PM
Here are a couple more Colorado sites. 
 
Boreas Pass, CO     39°24'38.09"N, 105°58'7.96"W    C&S (DSS&P)    TT inside RH ruin
 
This one is interesting because the turntable was constructed in the middle of this rectangular "roundhouse".  You can see the turntable pit outline inside the foundation remains.  The building also contained a water tank and coal bunker, so all engine servicing could be done out of the weather at the top of this11,000+' pass.  The foundation scales at about 40' wide, which apparently was adequate for the 2-6-6T Mason Bogie era.  Apparently the "why" was constructed for newer engines.
 
I remembered that this roundhouse was patterned after the one at Alpine Pass, near Pitkin.  I looked at that site which made your list, but something looked odd.  After some more research at   http://www.narrowgauge.org/alpine-tunnel/html/auto_tour.html I found out that the one on your list was a 2nd 1899 replacement 50' turntable.  The original roundhouse and turntable ruin are just down the grade at
 
Alpine Pass, CO    38°38'24.76"N, 106°24'27.53"W    DSP&P    TT inside RH ruin   
 
The foundation and turntable outline show up better in the 1999 Google Earth view.
Thanks
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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, September 26, 2011 5:00 PM
Here are a couple more Colorado sites. 
 
Boreas Pass, CO     39°24'38.09"N, 105°58'7.96"W    C&S (DSS&P)    TT inside RH ruin
 
This one is interesting because the turntable was constructed in the middle of this rectangular "roundhouse".  You can see the turntable pit outline inside the foundation remains.  The building also contained a water tank and coal bunker, so all engine servicing could be done out of the weather at the top of this11,000+' pass.  The foundation scales at about 40' wide, which apparently was adequate for the 2-6-6T Mason Bogie era.  Apparently the "why" was constructed for newer engines.
 
I remembered that this roundhouse was patterned after the one at Alpine Pass, near Pitkin.  I looked at that site which made your list, but something looked odd.  After some more research at   http://www.narrowgauge.org/alpine-tunnel/html/auto_tour.html I found out that the one on your list was a 2nd 1899 replacement 50' turntable.  The original roundhouse and turntable ruin are just down the grade at
 
Alpine Pass, CO    38°38'24.76"N, 106°24'27.53"W    DSP&P    TT inside RH ruin   
 
The foundation and turntable outline show up better in the 1999 Google Earth view.
Thanks
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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Monday, September 26, 2011 12:42 PM

And people wonder why I often insist on a paper copy or back-up . . . the various software works "most" of the time, except when it doesn't . . . Sigh

Anyway, from Page 3 of 8 (presently) of this thread, the post on 08-28-2011 at 9:08 AM (EDST): 

Semper Vaporo
[snipped] The next batch:

PA Altoona  40°32'11.79"N  78°22'52.17"W
PA Altoona  40°33'1.22"N  78°22'6.14"W
PA Altoona  40°30'50.00"N  78°24'2.09"W
PA Bethlehem  40° 37' 10" N  75° 24' 39" W
PA Carbondale  41°34'39.87"N  75°30'3.45"W
PA Clifton Forge  37°48'36.21"N  79°50'9.34"W
PA Connellsville  40° 0'23.49"N  79°35'39.66"W
PA Conway  40° 30' 04" N  80° 14' 31" W
PA Dickerson Run  40° 2'53.02"N  79°39'58.09"W
PA Enola  40° 17' 43" N  76° 55' 37" W
PA Erie  42° 7'36.98"N  80° 3'36.58"W
PA Lackawanna  42°48'50.72"N  78°50'10.57"W
PA Lewistown  40°35'13.62"N  77°35'12.32"W
PA Monroeville  40° 26' 05" N  79° 48' 12" W
PA New Castle  40°58'6.32"N  80°22'8.15"W
PA Orbisonia  40°14'25.27"N  77°54'0.21"W
PA Philadelphia  39° 55' 43" N  75° 12' 29" W
PA Port Clinton  40°34'53.72"N  76° 1'36.74"W
PA Scranton  41° 24' 26" N  75° 40' 16" W
PA Sharpsville  41°15'57.96"N  80°28'14.64"W
PA West Pittston Jct  41°21'9.30"N  75°48'1.89"W
PA Wilkes-Barre/Kingston  41°15'48.75"N  75°54'12.32"W

  Clifton Forge as "high-lighted" in red above is in central western Virginia, and those Lat./ Long. values are indeed for a turntable there in Virginia, not in Pennsylvania.  

Lansford, PA:  Here's a link to an old photo of the Lehigh Coal & Navigation Shops there for its 42" gauge equipment, but I can't clearly see a turntable, unless that's one to the left of the larger shop building ?  http://www.gingerb.com/LC&N%20Lansford%20Shops.jpg  and http://www.gingerb.com/lansford_station.htm  Perhaps it was for the Panther Creek Railroad Company instead ?   (mentioned in the caption for the Lansford Station about halfway down the page)

Jim Thorpe:  Contrary to my earlier post, apparently there was an enginehouse at Jim Thorpe !  See the 1st two paragraphs of text and accompanying photos under the heading "Map of Mauch Chunk Upper Yard & Engine Terminal" on this webpage, which also references the former turntable at Coalport across the river:  http://www.gingerb.com/cnj_mauch_chunk.htm  You can also barely see the Coalport turntable pit a little to the left of the through truss bridge over the LV RR in this photo, at the end of a white path through the woods below it, and below the 3-span deck girder beridge over the river's waters:   http://www.gingerb.com/cnj_nesquehoning_junction.htm and then:  http://www.gingerb.com/CNJ%20Nesquehoning%20JCTview%206%20Aerial.jpg  

Oh, heck - here's a better description and map of Coalport: http://www.gingerb.com/cnj_coalport_engine_service_area.htm 

Some better photos and descriptions of Coalport: http://www.americancanals.org/photo_gallery/Lehigh_Canal/LC_Upper_Division/LC_Upper_Coalport_engine.htm 

November 24, 2002 article about it:

 http://articles.mcall.com/2002-11-24/features/3430985_1_turntable-trails-specialist-railroad-buffs 

Another couple of photos at about the middle of this page:

 http://nepaview.piczo.com/?g=37943273&cr=4 

In the 3rd photo down on this webpage, the turntable pit is the slightly curved white line in the woods, just above the green trees and the 2 buzzards near the middle of the photo: http://culturedcarboncounty.blogspot.com/2010/04/pennsylvania-canal-society-visits.html 

Easton, PA:  See the caption - it's a start, anyway: http://www.flickr.com/photos/peachhead/969870674/ 

See page 12 (Page 18 of 40 of the "PDF" formnat version) of this "brownfields" redevelopment report: http://www.elibrary.dep.state.pa.us/dsweb/Get/Version-45733/02_Exec%20Summary.pdf 

I may have to dig into my shoebox of film photos from the 1970's to support this one - or maybe find a Valuation Map that shows it . . .

- Paul North. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by Zwingle on Monday, September 26, 2011 11:42 AM

I apologize for the errors. Some of those links I hadn't checked in nearly five years.  I also see I lost my Mystic, SD link. I'll have to find it. Like the McCarthy, AK turntable, this one was hard to find as well.

Speaking of which, I've found the McCarthy turntable, mainly by searching other videos and photo journals, and triangulating. It should be near the center of the screen. If I later find that I'm in error, I'll message you, but i think this is where I determined it to be before (not that I'm ever wrong...) Wink

The Worcestere link might not have been pinpointed, but more than likely the evidence is now gone.

If my labels are different than yours, in some cases this was because they were labeled differently by other sources during my research. I searched each state for abandoned roundhouses, turntables, "roundhouse road," etc.  In some cases I found only one obscure reference to a roundhouse or turntable near a location, and then found the remnants through aerial searches. It was heartbreaking when I lost that list. Regardless, some labels might have been incorrect, or dated, or simply typos. Since you hold the master list, we'll defer to your judgement.

This is an important documentation you are providing. Nowhere else is there a more comprehensive and complete list. Others have tried and failed. (At one time i had high hopes for the Trains list, but they failed to update, even after I provided them more, with proof.)

I see the links Paul provided have additional turntables and footprints not on the list yet.

Thank you for all your efforts. Yes I'll see what else I can dig up.

  • Member since
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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Monday, September 26, 2011 11:15 AM

Here are the most recent updates:

Canada ON Windsor  42°17'58.62"N  83° 2'19.11"W
Canada ON Niagra Falls  43° 6'39.91"N  79° 4'4.01"W

USA CA Rocklin  38°47'30.87"N 121°14'14.07"W
USA CO Pitkin  38°38'35.79"N 106°24'29.49"W
USA CT New London  41°21'47.64"N  72° 5'39.76"W
USA IL Alton  38°52'53.88"N  90° 9'0.73"W
USA IL Bucklin  37°33'4.84"N  99°38'24.58"W
USA IL Clinton  40° 9'20.59"N  88°56'48.93"W
USA IL Joliet  41°30'13.71"N  88° 5'3.52"W
USA IL Joliet  41°32'10.58"N  88° 3'29.95"W
USA IL Moline  41°30'42.88"N  90°29'29.20"W
USA IL Peoria  40°40'14.74"N  89°32'41.02"W
USA IL Roodhouse  39°28'55.25"N  90°22'32.00"W
USA IL Venice  38°39'3.29"N  90°10'0.21"W
USA LA Minden  32°36'28.72"N  93°17'29.56"W
USA MA Revere  42°24'8.53"N  71° 0'20.50"W
USA MD Ridgeley   39°38'9.76"N  78°47'9.14"W
USA MI Brownstown  42° 6'43.10"N  83°15'45.18"W
USA MI Jackson  42°15'11.99"N  84°24'28.42"W
USA MI Sault Ste. Marie  46°29'39.12"N  84°22'14.90"W
USA MN Crookston  47°45'13.92"N  96°37'27.71"W
USA MN Glenwood  45°39'22.15"N  95°22'8.97"W
USA MO Aurora  36°58'38.58"N  93°43'20.54"W
USA MO Hannibal  39°41'50.20"N  91°22'8.41"W
USA MO Kansas,City  39° 4'15.69"N  94°36'51.27"W
USA MO La Plata  40° 1'44.80"N  92°29'21.11"W
USA MO New Franklin  39° 0'38.00"N  92°45'1.60"W
USA MO Poplar Bluff  36°44'55.17"N  90°23'49.95"W
USA MO Scott City  37°13'5.63"N  89°30'57.36"W
USA MO Sedalia  38°42'32.46"N  93°12'35.51"W
USA MO Sedalia  38°42'32.97"N  93°12'42.64"W
USA MS Cleveland  33°43'50.76"N  90°43'19.40"W
USA ND Marmarth  46°17'43.34"N 103°55'53.28"W
USA ND New Rockford  47°41'4.96"N  99° 9'26.97"W
USA ND New Town  47°58'42.38"N 102°29'45.03"W
USA ND Portal  48°59'46.10"N 102°32'48.21"W
USA NH Concord  43°11'18.16"N  71°31'39.78"W
USA NJ Cranford  40°39'27.47"N  74°17'26.17"W
USA NJ Hammonton  39°41'57.16"N  74°51'11.30"W
USA NJ New Egypt  40° 4'19.19"N  74°31'46.53"W
USA NJ Phillipsburg  40°41'17.38"N  75°11'45.29"W
USA NJ Port Morris  40°54'15.94"N  74°40'57.69"W
USA NJ Secaucus  40°45'59.50"N  74° 4'23.57"W
USA NM Chama  36°54'11.89"N 106°34'40.42"W
USA NV Carlin  40°42'46.27"N 116° 6'35.61"W
USA NV Carson City  39° 8'51.20"N 119°46'6.74"W
USA NV Imlay  40°39'46.05"N 118° 9'2.08"W
USA NY Binghamton  42° 6'50.13"N  75°53'25.91"W
USA NY Warwick  41°15'6.54"N  74°22'23.42"W
USA PA Hellertown/Bethelem  40°35'54.10"N  75°20'32.64"W
USA PA Jim Thorpe  40°52'14.74"N  75°44'26.70"W
USA PA Strasburg  39°58'55.24"N  76° 9'44.32"W
USA SD Deadwood  44°22'16.57"N 103°43'41.06"W
USA SD Mobridge  45°31'58.16"N 100°26'15.70"W
USA SD Pollock  45°53'51.01"N 100°17'6.46"W
USA SD Sioux Falls  43°33'24.10"N  96°43'8.77"W
USA WY Lusk  42°45'44.51"N 104°26'18.33"W

 

You'll notice a slight change in the format.  Normally, when making updates to the data, I search Google Earth and add new roundhouses to the Google Earth "Places" list, and as each is entered, I copy the data to my Excel spreadsheet.  I then manually drag the item to the proper alphabetical place in the Places list.  Only after I am done for the day do I terminate Google Earth to cause it to update the data in the KMZ file on the disk.  I then copy the new entries in the Excel spreadsheet to a posting here (like this one) and then have Excel sort the whole Excel list so it is in proper order.

That has worked fine up until Sunday afternoon.  After I had made about 35 or 40 entries, Google Earth suddenly presented a message that apologized for the inconvenience and terminated!  In the process it failed to save the KMZ data to disk and I lost all that work.

Since I had not sorted the Excel spreadsheet yet, I knew the unsorted data at the end was what was lost, so all I had to do was to go to each coordinate listed and create a new entry in the Google Earth Places list and manually sort them again. The sorting process is horribly tedious.

I was about done with the re-entry process when... DRAT... IT DID IT AGAIN! And I had to start all over!

Again, I was about done and IT DID IT YET AGAIN!  At that point I decided that maybe I have too many entries in my Places file.  I thought that if maybe I separated the list into smaller groups it might help, so I split it into "Non-U.S.A." and "U.S.A." sites.  I did it to both the Google Earth list and the Excel spreadsheet.  That took a long time!  And the process of dragging items from one Places folder to another is just as tedious as the manual sorting process that put them in the folder in the first place.

Unfortunately, it didn't help... I died again while making new entries later.  Maybe because the folders in the Places files are really still part of one larger file.  But I am not about to re-sort them back into one list.

So the Excel file (which is what I post here) has a new column for "Country" and a separate one for "State/Province".  I don't know the "State/Province" for most of the Non-U.S.A data so that column will be blank for those, unless someone can provide that info for me.  I do know the Canadian/Canadien ones so that I have added (as you can see in the above update).

I finally got all the data entered by making only a couple of new entries at a time and then manually terminate Google Earth to make it save the Places data to the KMZ file before it had a chance to apologize to me again.

GGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Angry 

 

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    September 2011
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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, September 26, 2011 11:00 AM

You said: 

     The northern of the 2 Escanaba, MI, I had named Wells, but have now renamed it.

Please reconsider changing it back to the name commonly used by locals.  See

http://www.michiganrailroads.com/RRHX/RRHXHome.htm

Look under Turntables or under Roundhouses (Delta County) and you will see it is commonly referred to as Wells.  I will also check out their lists for new leads.  Keep up the good work.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, September 26, 2011 2:55 AM

Worcester, MA defnitely had a turntable.  Possibly two, one for the B&A\NYC and one shared by the B&M and NYNH&H.

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Monday, September 26, 2011 1:19 AM

Zwingle: comments on your post of 09-25-2011 12:40 PM


Belleville, IL ???  That one I have listed as Alorton, IL. I don't remember how I came up with that name, but it is between East Saint Louis and Centreville and Belleville is an additional 10 miles SE of the Centreville.


Deerfield, MA... I have that one labled as Greenfield, MA.  Which is it supposed to be, anybody know?


Worcestere, MA... All I see is a humongous multi-story parking garage. Help?


The northern of the 2 Escanaba, MI, I had named Wells, but have now renamed it.


I had Grand Forks in ND.  I have corrected it to MN and prepended East to the name.


One of your St. Louis MO listing is on the wrong side of the river to be St. Louis.  Make it East St. Louis, IL.


Your Rigeley, MS is really in Maryland (MD). Which makes it redundant farther down the list.


Your Ludlow, KY link points at a Covington, KY site which was listed earlier.


I have your North Bergen, NJ listed as Ridgefield Park, NJ.

 

Like I said before, I don't know if my names for things is right or not, and mostly I don't remember why I named them as I did.  Could be because of the nearest city I could find or maybe because someone else put me on to the site and provided the name.  If you feel certain one way or the other let me know.  I know I have found mistakes in my list by double checking against yours and I see a couple of errors in your post so we can discuss the differences as needed.

THANK YOU for posting what you have!  I will work on your next list tomorrow sometime.

I will probably clean up the latest additions and post them here first in case someone is following all this.

 

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
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  • From: Allentown, PA
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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Sunday, September 25, 2011 9:19 PM

Troy, NY:  Yep, D&H's Colonie Shop & Yard - see:

 http://wikimapia.org/9480751/Delaware-Hudson-Railway-Colonie-Shops-Yards 

See also the aerial photo here (takes a long time to load):

http://www.scribd.com/doc/65574974/D-H-Colonie-Shop 

- Paul North. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Allentown, PA
  • 9,810 posts
Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Sunday, September 25, 2011 9:09 PM

Semper Vaporo
[both snipped]

 Paul_D_North_Jr:

Troy, NY:  Possibly ex-D&H, vicinity of the Colonie Shops ? 

 Lansford, PA:  Let me research that one a bit - likely ex-Lehigh & New England RR, but perhaps ex-Greenwood Colliery and/ or Lehigh Coal & Navigation Co. private facilities. 

(South) Easton, PA - ex-Lehigh Valley RR, removed sometime in the last 10 - 15 years:  N 40.68173 W 75.22351 

Coalport/ East Jim Thorpe, PA - former CNJ or Lehigh Coal & Navigation Co.: N 40.87573 W 75.75660 

If I had any idea where "Colonie Shops" were, I'd check it out.  A search using Google Earth provides a bunch of commercial stores in Albany, NY. which are not near enough to Troy for my understanding.

I can believe that Lansford has some coal mines in the area and maybe there was a roundhouse for a mining train operation, but I can't see anything on Google Earth.

Easton, PA, at the coords you gave, I see nothing on Google Earth... Parking lot today and scrub field as far back as 1992.

I see a turntable at Jim Thorpe, PA, but no building of any sort as far back as 1992.  I added the turntable to my list.

Coalport/ East Jim Thorpe, PA..... the coords you gave takes me to a forest clearing North and WEST of Jim Thorpe, PA.  No evidence of a roundhouse at all and only the kind-of-round bare spot as evidence of a turntable.  Using Google Earth to search for Coalport reveals a small town half the state's width to the west of Jim Thorpe with no RR in the area.  I'm confused.

 If you have the time and inclination, see if you can verify the coords you gave (typo maybe?) or otherwise releive my confusions Dunce

  Troy, NY - Let me work on that one a bit more.

Lansford, PA:  Ditto - nothing to be seen today - need to look in some old references. 

Easton, PA - Also ditto, but that turntable was documented fairly well before it was removed.  Never had a roundhouse - only a rectangular shop building just to the west, which is now offices. 

JT - Right, never had a building of any kind as far as I know. 

Coalport - that bare spot is it.  Local trail/ canal folks have hacked it out of the regrowth vegetation and have done enough research to tie it to the past use.  Again, let me find the references, but I've seen it in person on the ground within the last 5 years or so, and yeah, it's an ancient turntable pit - no building that I recall, though. 

Here's another one or two that I didn't notice in the previously posted lists - again, my apologies if I overlooked them:

Algoma Central's covered turntable in the Engine House at its Steelton Shops in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, at: N 46.52441 W 84.35241  This one is cleverly camouflaged inside a rectangular shop building !  See: http://www.historicplaces.ca/en/rep-reg/place-lieu.aspx?id=7352 

Likewise, there was a covered turntable at Norden or so on SP's Donner Summit Route, at about here, I believe (but not real sure): N 39.31652 W 120.35508  See: http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/61273/title/norden-turntable/cat/505

Also, according to this thread -  - there was one (uncovered, I presume) at Emigrant Gap, too:

http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/185457/2028124.aspx (post by twhite on 01-12-2011)

- Paul North. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 297 posts
Posted by Zwingle on Sunday, September 25, 2011 5:57 PM

Here are some photos of the Alpine Tunnel turntable restoration.

Camp DeWoody was the end terminus for the tourist Reader Railroad.

Here's some folks turning the turntable in McCarthy, AK

Ignore the Harvey, IL link, as it's obviously a duplicate. I just liked the shot. I tended to avoid Chicago-area listings, as the cities got confusing. The two I posted from Joliet, however, are different than the one already on the list.

That link I gave you with more listings, I see the U.S part is under construction. Keep checking back, as I know there are many there that have not made it into this thread.

Also, the Flash Earth links are from several years ago, when Flash Earth used Google as well.

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