CShaveRR Yes, that's probably the one...I wouldn't have connected "Montrose" to the C&O. Sorry!
Yes, that's probably the one...I wouldn't have connected "Montrose" to the C&O. Sorry!
If there is any sorrow here it is mine. I find a feature of interest and then zoom out until the first labled red dot appears and that becomes the name I apply. I have noted that sometimes I seem to zoom out too fast for Google Earth to get the scene updated fully and I get a city that is a bit farther away than what I should use for the name. And then there are the places where the roundhouse was out on the fringe of a town with which it is traditionally associated and another town grew up around it and so the name I find is the 2nd one and no one knows what I am refering to. ("That's the Hickville roundhouse! It as torn down when Podunk was still a swamp.")
If you, (or anybody!) can supply a more correct name I would be quite appreciative of the information and will update my list accordingly. I only hope we don't get into arguments as to which name is more correct.
I have a spot in my Excel spreadsheet to list which RR the site belongs/belonged to, but ran out of mental agility trying to keep track of what to put there. Some changed hands and names more often that some folk change underwear and I ran into arguments as to the order of the names, so I gave up on that aspect.
It is similar to my trying to indicate what is/was at the location. There are some that were visible on Google Earth initially, but have since been torn down and turned into parking lots or something else that totally obliterates the evidence.
When, where I thought I saw a working turntable and fully functional roundhouse is now gone, how do I list it in a static chart, today?
When I started this I had two columns for whether there was a turntable and a roundhouse and I just listed "Yes" or "No" in each. Then I began to qualify the notation with "Working", or "Outline" or "Ruin" or "Relic" and I was not always consistent with my nomenclature, not that I see the same thing as I go back to look at them again.
Or what do I list for a partial roundhouse that does not (and apparently never did) have a turntable, but has just a fan of tracks to the stalls in a semi-circular wall? Then there are place with a turntable in front of a rectangular building and the radial tracks curve to enter the flat front of the building... Is that a "ROUNDhouse"??
I have seen places where there is only a footprint of the roundhouse left, but it is obvious from the radial pattern of concrete on the ground that there were two different roundhouses there with different centers for the turntables? It is just my somewhat practiced eye that detects the two, but I have no proof, so do I list both or just one? I guess I could do more research to see what I can find, but there is only so much time in a day and I have having too much fun just finding them.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRR: Are you pointing the one I have listed as in Montrose VA?
Maybe I have the name wrong?
Thanks. Here is that one and some others I have found since the last update:
That makes 614 in my list.
Just took a look at my track diagrams, and couldn't find evidence of many of the turntables that had been there (my diagram book had been updated into the 1960s). There were a few, but I couldn't Google-spot them.
Stone Cliff was just timetable east of Thurmond. Found where a yard was taken up, but no turntable pit.
In fact, the only one I had any success with that I didn't see on your list was Fulton (Richmond), Virginia. I still can't give you coordinates, but you have to follow the railroad and Virginia Route 5 southeast from the city.
Meridian, MS.
Remember as a kid there was a roundhouse and a turntable from the GM&O years. Sorry no coordinates, but it is north of "A" Street, west of 27th avenue and east of 26th avenue. I can see where is was from google map. Just a little SW of there, use to be a maintainance shop where Martin Luther King drive crosses the RR, in the NW corner.
Thanks,
Ken Simpson
lenzfamily Semper In St Thomas Ontario there is still a transfer table at the Elgin County Railway Museum. It's located in downtown St Thomas at the west end of the former Michigan Central shops just north of Wellington St and west of First Ave. I couldn't see it on Google Earth, however I know it's still there and occasionally in use. The MCRR yard in St Thomas also had a turntable near its east end but I believe this was removed late in the 1960's. Penn Central track layout diagrams and charts of the of the CASO Sub in 1964 IIRC show it. Charlie Chilliwack, BC
Semper
In St Thomas Ontario there is still a transfer table at the Elgin County Railway Museum. It's located in downtown St Thomas at the west end of the former Michigan Central shops just north of Wellington St and west of First Ave. I couldn't see it on Google Earth, however I know it's still there and occasionally in use. The MCRR yard in St Thomas also had a turntable near its east end but I believe this was removed late in the 1960's. Penn Central track layout diagrams and charts of the of the CASO Sub in 1964 IIRC show it.
Charlie
Chilliwack, BC
The resolution of the images for St. Thomas are too poor to really make anything as detailed as a transfer table pit, but I would be pretty sure it is on one side of that large building in the middle of that area.
The Street View photos are pretty good and show the entrance to the museum and a 2 and a half story building with the top being what I think is probably an overhead transfer crane running nearly the length (N/S) of the building. But the building is too far away to make out what is near the ground next to it.
Is the transfer table outside of that building? If so, which side?
Trainrev When I look a bit North Northeast of my coordinates I think I see what you see, and that may be it. When I put in your coordinates, I end up out in the country south east of Walla Walla. I maybe doing something wrong here. I live in Portland now, but I remember seeing the remains of the floor pattern of a round house just off N. 12th street on the west side of the railroad yard just north of Hwy. 12. I hope that helps. I've been wanting to visit WW lately, so maybe this is enough of an excuse.
When I look a bit North Northeast of my coordinates I think I see what you see, and that may be it. When I put in your coordinates, I end up out in the country south east of Walla Walla. I maybe doing something wrong here. I live in Portland now, but I remember seeing the remains of the floor pattern of a round house just off N. 12th street on the west side of the railroad yard just north of Hwy. 12. I hope that helps. I've been wanting to visit WW lately, so maybe this is enough of an excuse.
I suppose that if you do get there and can do some looking around, without tresspassing! and can determine where the center of the turntable was, I would be glad to know that info. But even with my somewhat practiced eye at seeing the remains of a roundhouse, I just cannot see where one was in that area. I think only wishful thinking makes me see something at the coordinates I gave. (I tested my coordinates from my post by copying and pasting them into Google Earth and it just barely moved the view to the northeast when it was centered on yours, so I don't know why your system sent you off to the south east!)
We seem to be assumming it was just East of 12th Ave, North of W Elm St and South of Paine St. (if Elm and Paine crossed the area in question). If you break that area in to quadrants you will see that your original coordinates are in the SW quadrant and mine are in the NE one. I would really like to be at least that accurate. You might print a copy of the Google Earth image and try to pinpoint on the photo were the turntable was and then return to Google Earth to get the geographical coordinates.
Have fun, if you get a chance to go there. I am sure it would be easier to see any remnant of evidence on the ground, but I would not hold out much hope, given what can be seen from the images on Google Earth.
blx Spooner, WI on Roundhouse Road, the roundhouse for the Chicago Milwaukee St. Paul & Omaha RR CMSTP&P is still standing & visible on Google maps.
Spooner, WI on Roundhouse Road, the roundhouse for the Chicago Milwaukee St. Paul & Omaha RR CMSTP&P is still standing & visible on Google maps.
You have the railroad's name a bit mixed up, it was the Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha RR. Known as the Omaha Road, its initials were the CStPM&O with official later reporting marks of CMO. Long an affiliate and then subsidiary of the C&NW, it was eventually merged into that company.
Kaukauna, WI where the Ghost Town Fitness Center is now had been the Milwaukee Lakeshore & Western MLS&W / Chicago & Northwestern C&NW roundhouse & turntable.
Google satellite Forrest, IL. About 1/8 mile east of state route 47 on US route 24 is a white circle on the north side of hy 24. It is an old turntable pit with the turntable still in the ground. I believe it is from the N&W. RR tracks still run E & W. The right of way N & S are still visible on the map but the tracks are gone. The bldg left of the pit is also an old RR facility.
Semper Vaporo SheldonLWfan: Thanks, but sorry, I cannot find any evidence of exactly where a Turntable or Roundhouse was. I can't even find any evidence of RR right of way anywhere in the area. The closest RR I can find is 7.5 miles to the southwest.
SheldonLWfan: Thanks, but sorry, I cannot find any evidence of exactly where a Turntable or Roundhouse was. I can't even find any evidence of RR right of way anywhere in the area. The closest RR I can find is 7.5 miles to the southwest.
Those tracks to the SW of Louisville are the Central of Georgia main, between Savannah and Macon. The Louisville and Wadley Railroad connected with the CofG at Wadley. This is about the center of the L&W/CG WYE in Wadley:
32 51 45.09N 82 24 34.49W
This link goes to a 1921 Sanborn insurance map, which shows the turntable:
http://dlg.galileo.usg.edu/sanborn/CityCounty/Louisville1921/Sheet4.html
The Louisville turntable was taken up in the late 1940s. I grew up in Louisville, and I never knew of a turntable until I had some correspondence in 2004 with Steve Flanigan on the subject of the L&W. As a teenager, I spend many days in one summer in the early 1960s, waiting for the three times a week L&W schedule from Wadley, and hopping aboard CG 37 riding in the Louisville area. I never saw anything regarding the turntable, so learning of the turntable came as a bit of a surprise.
I do hope the statute of limitations has run out on my cab rides.
No roundhouse facilities at Louisville. The turntable was used to turn the locomotives around for the return trip to Wadley. I believe in Clegg and Beebe's Mixed Train Daily, they comment the L&W ran locomotive tender first from Wadley and "its return was pilot first, as God intended, and in a Christian manner." So, it would appear the turntable was not fully functional when they visited Louisville.
Almost nothing of the railroad in the Louisville area is visible from Google Earth photos, but I know where the rails ran. When I was back in Louisville, July 2010, I did find some of the rail where the tracks crossed streets. All of the crossings have been paved over.
This link has a fair map of the old L&W route:
http://www.abandonedrails.com/Louisville_and_Wadley_Railroad
You can easily trace the L&W from the CG wye up towards Louisville.
This link states the service to Louisville was discontinued due to bridge failure over Boggy Gut Creek, just north of Wadley, but I've determined the bridge failure was actually the bridge over the Ogeechee River. I remember at some point in the 1980s that railcars were being stored on the L&W north Of Boggy Gut Creek.
Okay, here are a couple of new ones in Germany:
If ANYBODY had said that there were at least 58 Roundhouses in Germany I probably would not have believed them... If they had also said that there were that many twins and triplets in a row I would have thought them nuts. But looking through the full lists I have is proof of it. And it appears that most are still in use for their original purpose of RR locomotive maintenance.
Thanks for the response, S.V.! I'll be taking a little while, but I should be able to pull out some track diagrams and perhaps locate some of those turntables for you. They could have been anything from 80 feet to 115 feet.
Thank you for the clarification. It is not my recollection (it was a bit before my time!), but I have read much about it in the histories of Southern Pacific's Monterey (Calif.) branch and the Del Monte. (Apparently, it was pretty short, so at one time they could only use certain specific short-tender locomotives on the branch.)
I'll try to do a little work to see if I can pinpoint the coordinates.
Dragoman Sr. Semper Vaporo -- Do I understand correctly, that the only listings you wish to include on your list, are those turntables and roundhouses that you can find on Google Earth (current or historical)? For example, I can document (using various historical records) that there was an SP turntable in Pacific Grove, California (on the Monterey Peninsula). But that entire end of the line was abandoned in 1978-79 or so, and has been fully developed with no trace of the facilities on Google Earth today (or any historical view). Interested or no?
Sr. Semper Vaporo --
Do I understand correctly, that the only listings you wish to include on your list, are those turntables and roundhouses that you can find on Google Earth (current or historical)? For example, I can document (using various historical records) that there was an SP turntable in Pacific Grove, California (on the Monterey Peninsula). But that entire end of the line was abandoned in 1978-79 or so, and has been fully developed with no trace of the facilities on Google Earth today (or any historical view).
Interested or no?
Good question...
My original intent seems to have been lost with the addition of Historical Imagery. Google Earth seems to be adding more Historical Imagery that goes back farther in time, so maybe knowledge of locations prior to the present limit in Google Earth can be verified someday in the future when older images become available (I have seen some as far back as the 1950's!).
So to answer your question... yes, I guess as long as you have good documentation that can resolve to an (at least somewhat) accurate geographic location for the center of the turntable. So, if you have (or anyone has) some concrete evidence of the location then by all means see if you can resolve it to the geographic coordinates of the center.
I want to stay away from vague recollections of "a roundhouse somewhere near the north end of Podunk Street in Hickville."
But if those recollections can be resolved to the coordinates then it would be okay... something like... "If you drove too far north on Podunk street and the turntable was turned to the N/S position you could drive right onto it, and when the turntable was turned to the east stall you were looking directly at the Hickville water tower that was in the center of what is now City Park, just a block to the east."
If your recollection is vague, but I can find the evidence on Google Earth, then I will add it. But just a vague reference with no evidence is no good.
Additions
Rummelsburg (Berlin), Germany - DB Complete circular Roundhouse
52° 29' 43.83" N 13° 29' 29.19" E
Augsburg, Germany - DB - two Roundhouses with Turntables
48° 20' 51.99" N 10° 53' 35.15" E
Hof, Germany - DB - Roundhouse, Turntable filled in
50° 18' 37.10" N 11° 55' 00.38" E
Regensburg, Germany - DB - Roundhouse with Turntable
49° 00' 38.77" N 12° 04' 53.85" E
Chemnitz, Germany - DB - Roundhouse with Turntable, remains of 2nd Roundhouse with Turntable
50° 51' 33.36" N 12° 56' 05.04" E
Saalfeld (Saale), Germany - DB - Roundhouse with Turntable
50° 39' 12.87" N 11° 22' 32.58" E
Gera, Germany Roundhouse with Turntable
50° 53' 23.91" N 12° 04' 43.16" E
Stendal, Germany - Roundhouse with Turntable, Remains of second.
52° 35' 39.84" N 11° 50' 51.32" E
Schwerin, Germany - R&TT
53° 38' 16.29" N 11° 24' 24.16" E
Halle an der Saale, Germany - 3 R&TT
51° 29' 22.18" N 11° 59' 38.48" E
Merseburg, Germany - R&TT
51° 20' 42.38" N 11° 59' 32.65" E
Celle, Germany - R&TT
52° 37' 50.44" N 10° 03' 59.17" E
Cottbus, Germany - R&TT
51° 44' 59.09" N 14° 18' 06.83" E
Bitterfeld, Germany - R&TT
51° 38' 18.54" N 12° 18' 24.40" E
Wittenberge, Germany - R&TT, remains of 2nd R&TT
52° 59' 53.58" N 11° 45' 50.84" E
Neubrandenburg, Germany - 2 R&TT
53° 33' 44.61" N 13° 15' 43.71" E
Darmstadt, Germany - R&TT, remains of 2nd R&TT
49° 52' 46.47" N 8° 37' 34.24" E
Bebra, Germany - 2 R&TT
50° 58' 07.81" N 9° 47' 57.54" E
Fulda, Germany - R&TT
50° 32' 25.01" N 9° 41' 26.55" E
Würzburg, Germany - 2 R&TT, remains of 3rd R&TT
49° 48' 11.93" N 9° 56' 10.83" E
That's enough for tonight, I quit listing turntable only locations, there are enough Roundhouses and Turntable locations.
CShaveRR Glad I could help. By the way, it's Clifton Forge, Virginia, not Clifton Falls. If you'd like, list the West Virginia locations that are troublesome to you, and I'll see what I can do for them. I am not familiar with the location system you're using, but should be able to bring you a little closer.
Glad I could help. By the way, it's Clifton Forge, Virginia, not Clifton Falls.
If you'd like, list the West Virginia locations that are troublesome to you, and I'll see what I can do for them. I am not familiar with the location system you're using, but should be able to bring you a little closer.
Okay... West Virginia locations:
Ronceverte: I see a RR and small yard, but my best guess is if there was a roundhouse it is now a baseball diamond.
Marlinton: No evidence of a rail yard.
Stone Cliff: Google Earth zooms out to include Ohio, Virginia, Kentucky and Pennsylvania. There is a Stone Cliff Bridge over a river that has a RR under it that follows the river, but no communities near that area.
Meadow Creek: Yard to the south and a Wye junction to the north but no evidence of a turntable or roundhouse.
Nallen: no evidence of a yard at all.
Gauley Bridge: No evidene of a yard at all.
Pratt: Google Earth zooms out to about a 21 mile altitude centered northeast of Marmet. I do find a Pratt Police department. Zooming in on that I find Pratt, but following RR tracks on both sides of the river produces no rail yard all the way to the next named towns in either direction.
Charleston: Looks like major Highway (Interstates 77 & 64) construction ate any rail yards in Charleston. I do see a railyard in South Charleston, but it is associated with an industry and has no turntable.
Huntington: I see several large RR Yards, and one Softball field where I would expect a Roundhouse, but no other evidence of such.
Kingston: a couple of large buildings and some smaller outbuildings and a RR track to a coal loading point to the south... no flat space big enough to hold a Turntable.
Madison: No indication of any Rail Yard.
Sproul: Nothng but a Wye... unless I look REAL HARD... then I see a circle on the ground that MIGHT be a turntable. If you can verify, I'll add it. 38°15'04.11" N 81°47'45.98" W
Taplin: couple dozen houses and the track goes from single to double.
Whitesville: RR tracks are on the opposite side of the river, clinging to the side of the hill. No room for a yard or turntable.
What I do is enter the city name and ",WV" in the Search box of Google Earth and then click the Search Icon. From there I can zoom in or out and pan around, I also click the Clock icon to display the Historical Images slider bar which i drag to the left to see the oldest images. I also move the slider to the right one marker at a time to see intermediate images... Sometimes a different season of the year will reveal things that the others do not.
If I zoom in far enough the view will change to show the elevation topography and I can see that the tracks are either on a relatively flat area or clinging to the side of a hill.
To mark a Turntable/Roundhouse location i click on the PushPin Icon and then drag the pin to the center of the turntable (or at least where the turntable would have been), enter the name of the location to identify the marker and then save the data. I manually drag the info in the "Locations" section (on the left) to get them in alphabetical order by State/Country and City.
If I just want to know the geographic coordinates (to paste it in this forum), I center the place of interest and then click the Edit menu and select "Copy View Location" - This puts the coordinates in the clipboard to be pasted wherever I want.
To follow a railroad more easily, I select the "Layers" list on the left side and then click the "+" next to "More" and then click the "Transportation" checkbox so all transportation items will be shown... RR tracks show as a very thin black line, when the zoom level is not too far away and not too close (It used to show the black line when zoomed much farther away and the line used to be thicker and was easier to follow, but that was changed a few months ago making it much harder to just follow the black lines from town to town.)
For those tracks that were abandoned so long ago that Google Earth does not show them, I have to zoom in close enough to try to follow tree lines, bridge pilings in rivers and other telltales on the ground (and try not to be deceived by creeks and power lines).
WHY did I type "FALLS"??? I got it right on the list... (even if I am having trouble with the formating of the data for several of the German and Mexican cities.)
I am using Degrees, Minutes, Seconds E/W or N/S. But Google Earth can accept Degrees and fractions of a degree (the displayed coordinates are shown in a user selected format... See the Google Earth Tools|Options menu.)
The updated info:
That is 46 more for a total of 577 in my list (but I bet there are lots more!)
EDIT: I will have to rework that list to see if I can fix some of the formatting errors... dunno what happened, but I can't seem to get a couple of them fixed. I will repost later.
EDIT again (about 12 times) THERE! The formatting is fixedl
Lots to catch up on!
CShaveRR: Thanks. I not only found some more, but found a mistake in my list because of your list. The mistake was that I had Clifton Falls as being in PA, not VA, so PA lost one and VA gained TWO (as I found a 2nd one not far from the one I already had). As for the majority of the towns/cities in your list, I often found little or no evidence that a RR ever existed there! Some places are so small and on the side of a hill/mountain and have no room that I can see, to have anything level enough and wide enough to hold a turntable! (Unless maybe the engine was stood on one end, twisted 180-degrees and then layed back down to face the other way! ) A couple of the names would not resolve to a town or city on Google Earth, it would zoom out to a several hundred square mile area.
AndredDickey: Thanks. Found the one at Yorktown Heights, but at Croton-on-Hudson there is just absolutely nothing to be found. The earliest historical image seems to be just after the majority of the housing was built. But in the looking around due to your post, I found evidence of a Roundhouse is Salamaca.
Pepper378: Thanks. Already had the Brooklyn RH in Portland, but have now added the TT in Vancouver.
choo-choo-wayne: Thanks, Added them both!
Jim_In_Fla: Thanks. Added all 3. I can see what I believe to be the transfer table and associated buildings in the historical views, So I have added that too.
Beaulieu: Thanks! WOW... lots to add. Interesting sets of 3 roundhouses.
ogre427: Thanks, it is there now! I actually had it in my Google Earth file, but apparently missed transferring it to my Excel file, which I am posting from.
bigduke76: Thanks, that adds two more. Are you saying that you have info on 101+ others?
Trainrev: Thanks. How close do you think your coordinates are to the center of the turntable was? If I strain my eyes a lot (and maybe let my immagination and hopes get the better of me) I think I can see a bit of a circular pattern a bit north-northeast of your coordinates. Say, centered at: 46°04'17.04" N 118°21'15.46" W. Do you live close to the area? Can you verify either (or a new) set of coordinates for the center of the turntable?
I will post the updated info as soon as I get some formatting problems ironed out.
I should say concerning the Walla Walla, WA, remains that they are visible on the ground, but not so much by satellite.
There was one in Walla Walla. All that's visible are ash pits, etc. and a radial pattern. Try 46.070957,-118.354517
i note that you list only ONE turntable/roundhouse in mexico, presumably the one at the yard north of mexico city.. i live near guadalajara in the winter, and noted when they tore down the old NdeM roundhouse in guadalajara about 10 years ago - AND REPLACED IT WITH A BRAND-NEW 24 STALL ROUNDHOUSE AND A NEW, LONGER TURNTABLE AT THE EXACT SAME SPOT! miracles will never cease! it's southheast about a kilometer from the passenger station. i'm pretty sure the one at san luis potosi is still in use, and i've visited several others in my searches for mexican steam locomotives. (J.David Conrad lists 101 in his 'directory', but i can't find 12 of those. however, i've found 16 that he doesn't mention!) -arturo
There was once a turntable at the Louisville, GA end of the Louisville & Wadley Railroad, at approximately:
32 59 44.77N 82 24 33.60W
Based on research by Steve Flanigan and published in the Cental of Georgia Railway Historical Society's "The Right Way," the turntable existed into the late 1940s. Flanigan wrote, "In 1948, a wye was built at a cost of around $900.00, and the deteriorated turntable, pit and spur were torn up."
The turntable is depicted on an undated Sanborn map copy segment I got from Steve some years ago.
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