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THE HISTORY QUIZ CONTINUES . . . newcomers welcome!

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 9:13 PM

henry6

ARRIGHT.  I guess I'm up to make a pitch.  I know of two cases where the names of the two end points of a line are merely reverse spellings.  One is on a major class one the ohther remains part of the short line.  I am hoping these are the only two instances anyway. 

One is Dotsero--the beginning of the survey of the Grand (now Colorado) River--and Orestod--the east end of the Dotsero cutoff which brought the Moffat Tunnel into use as a major link in Denver to western Colorado traffic, cutting 175.1 miles off the Rio GRande's route to Utah. I thought that the east end (at Bond) was pronounced ORE STOD, until I heard a coach attendant call it O RESTod.

The short line? I haven't the slightest idea.

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Posted by henry6 on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 9:14 PM

You're halfway there!  Annagrams don't count, though.

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Posted by SSW9389 on Thursday, February 19, 2009 12:49 AM

There was one of those name reverse points in Pennsylvania on the Cambria and Indiana Railroad. The town was Colver and the other place on the railroad was Revloc.

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Posted by CShaveRR on Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:19 AM

Technically, "Ada" is a palindrome. All of the names you're looking for are anagrams of the name at the opposite end, though you've called for a specific rearrangement of the letters.

How about Foster and Retsof, New York, on the Genesee & Wyoming?

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Posted by henry6 on Thursday, February 19, 2009 8:20 AM

 

 
Offline SSW9389
 

Re: THE HISTORY QUIZ CONTINUES . . . newcomers welcome!

There was one of those name reverse points in Pennsylvania on the Cambria and Indiana Railroad. The town was Colver and the other place on the railroad was Revloc.

 
 

CShaveRR

Technically, "Ada" is a palindrome. All of the names you're looking for are anagrams of the name at the opposite end, though you've called for a specific rearrangement of the letters.

How about Foster and Retsof, New York, on the Genesee & Wyoming?

 

SSW9389 proved my fear that I did not have the only right answer in mind. Dotsero and Orestod on the DRG was a given I expected all to know...finding answers in the little nooks and cranies of short lines is where I knew I would be found out.  So...SSW, Colver and Revolc came in first with a correct answer while CShave had the answer I had in mind, the G & W's Foster to Restof on the DL&W in Upstate NY.  My leaning is that SSW should get it for being first with an answer and because he did prove my fears that I would possibley be opeing a can of worms...or anagrams...with my question!  Are there anymore?

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Posted by henry6 on Friday, February 20, 2009 8:09 AM

So SSW9389, you're up.

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Posted by Railway Man on Friday, February 20, 2009 8:36 AM

Deggesty
One is Dotsero--the beginning of the survey of the Grand (now Colorado) River--and Orestod--the east end of the Dotsero cutoff which brought the Moffat Tunnel into use as a major link in Denver to western Colorado traffic, cutting 175.1 miles off the Rio GRande's route to Utah. I thought that the east end (at Bond) was pronounced ORE STOD, until I heard a coach attendant call it O RESTod.

Johnny

 

Never heard anything on the D&RGW but "ORE-eh-stod".  I have always suspected that coach attendents, porters, station announcers, and passenger conductors intentionally use bizzaro-world pronunciations they dream up on their own because it amuses them.  (But anyway, almost nothing on the RYE-o Grand is pronounced according to the OED or its Spanish equivalent.  Sierra is pronounced sy-ER-a, Rio = RYE-o, Salida = sa-LYE-da (not sa-LEED-a), La Jara = La HARE-a (not La HAR-a), Buena Vista = BYU-na VIS-ta (not BWEA-na VEE-sta) and if you're really in the know, it's MIN-ern rolled off the tongue, not MIN-turn with a hard t).

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Posted by SSW9389 on Friday, February 20, 2009 8:58 AM

Who are these people, where are they, what are they posing for and what do they have to do with railroading?

No fair peeking at my photo page!

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Posted by Railway Man on Friday, February 20, 2009 10:25 AM

 I peeked but I couldn't find the photo, though I recognized the structure.

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Posted by SSW9389 on Friday, February 20, 2009 10:35 AM

RWM if you recognize the structure you have a serious clue about what kind of activity is going on in the photo.

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Posted by henry6 on Friday, February 20, 2009 11:41 AM

It is the first PCC meeting and they are all going out to ride trolleys!

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Posted by SSW9389 on Friday, February 20, 2009 11:48 AM

henry6: Ha ha ha, many of these men would have already ridden a PCC when the photo was taken.

Ed

henry6

It is the first PCC meeting and they are all going out to ride trolleys!

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Posted by henry6 on Friday, February 20, 2009 11:55 AM

I am really going to take the WAG as has been used before by others and say they are the staff of EMD.  It is a wild stab because I am really thinking I must leave the office and get lunch.  And they might still be getting ready to ride off in trolley cars!

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, February 20, 2009 11:56 AM

Back, briefly, to RWM's comments on pronunciation. When we were leaving Denver (on our honeymoon--bus from Boise to Ogden, and then from Ogden to Salt Lake City by train by way of Oakland and Denver), We first heard the pronuciation RYE o Grande; several people from the Denver area pronounced it thus. However, as we came west, we heard, more and more, REE o Grande. And since moving here, REE o is what I have heard, especially from a man who was a Rio Grande clerk.

And, as to on-board personnel's habits, the same man spoke of the switch-backs at the Gilluly Loops. I told him that I had long understood that a switch-back involved backing up, and that the Loops had hairpin curves. He presented some weak defense of his nomenclature. My only experience with switch-backs has been on the Cass, but I have traversed the Rio Grande's and the SP's (crossing of the Cascades) hairpin curves--and the train never backed up.

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Posted by SSW9389 on Friday, February 20, 2009 12:09 PM

henry6: Go ahead and get your lunch. These guys are not EMD's staff. You have noticed the range of ages in the photo, staff might be a good guess, but not exactly. These fellows would meet at the end of the day in a country club like setting, relax, have a cold one, whatever.

Ed 

  

henry6

I am really going to take the WAG as has been used before by others and say they are the staff of EMD.  It is a wild stab because I am really thinking I must leave the office and get lunch.  And they might still be getting ready to ride off in trolley cars!

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Posted by Railway Man on Friday, February 20, 2009 12:33 PM

Deggesty

Back, briefly, to RWM's comments on pronunciation. When we were leaving Denver (on our honeymoon--bus from Boise to Ogden, and then from Ogden to Salt Lake City by train by way of Oakland and Denver), We first heard the pronuciation RYE o Grande; several people from the Denver area pronounced it thus. However, as we came west, we heard, more and more, REE o Grande. And since moving here, REE o is what I have heard, especially from a man who was a Rio Grande clerk.

And, as to on-board personnel's habits, the same man spoke of the switch-backs at the Gilluly Loops. I told him that I had long understood that a switch-back involved backing up, and that the Loops had hairpin curves. He presented some weak defense of his nomenclature. My only experience with switch-backs has been on the Cass, but I have traversed the Rio Grande's and the SP's (crossing of the Cascades) hairpin curves--and the train never backed up.

Johnny

 

That's wryly amusing, because in my experience it was the Colorado Division who pronounced it Ree-o and the Utah Division Rye-o.  It reminds me of a conversation with a friend who lives in Moscow, Idaho, and I asked, "What's the correct pronunciation, MOSS-co or moss-COW?  And the reply was, "Half the people who have lived here since birth will tell you, "It's MOSS-co, not like that city in Russia."  And the other half will tell you, "It's moss-COW, not like that city in Russia."

Well, there's no telling now because people move around so.  Undoubtedly if we searched we would find a rail forum where someone is insisting that "This is the way it is! and anyone who disagrees is wrong! wrong! wrong! Also a heretic! And hates freedom!"

The term "switchback" for a loop like Gilluly is actually not uncommon in railroading; there's a lot of usage of that in old engineering texts and railway trade journals.  The model railroad world got finicky about it, but I still hear it today to describe Gilluly, or SP over Cascade Summit, etc.

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Posted by Southland32 on Sunday, February 22, 2009 2:42 PM

I talked with a station agent that worked for the ACL during that time. He was at Otter Creek on the cut-off. The Blue Goose got it's name because a conductor placed a weather vane either on the back or top of (his) caboose, I forgot which one. That conductor worked that run for a number of years. Apparently it looked or was shaped like a goose! That's how it got it's name. The goose was involved in a head on collision south of Floral City on double track mainline in the late 50's. It was south of the cut-off,(Dunnellon) at the time.

 I have always had a interest in the Perry cut-off. It really died in the late 50's. (57-59) That's when the Southland, the Blue Goose and the log trains from south Florida ceased operations. All that was left was local freights and ocasional specials/extras. Football specials, Circus trains, shriners specials, etc etc.

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Posted by oltmannd on Monday, February 23, 2009 8:51 AM

I have no idea where or what, but the era can be pinned down with the fashion clues.

No hats = later than the early 1960s.

Wide, loud ties, wide lapels and some double breasted suits, at least one "leisure jacket", some without ties and jackets altogether.

No cuffs on the pants.

One Army guy.

No long hair on anybody.

I'll guess this picture is from the early 70s.

Mix of ages of guys.

Not everybody has a badge on.

Building looks to be from early part of 20th century. (too old for EMD, and LaGrange offices are yellow brick)

It's definitely not Juniata.

 My guess is it's some sort of training class for something new.  How about a UP training class for the DD40AX's in Omaha?

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, February 23, 2009 8:58 AM

My guess is the pic is from the late 30's to about 1950.  The lack of long hair and no cuffs on pants and with wide lapels and loud ties suggest that era more than after 1970.  But because of no coats, pic had to be done in warmer weather, May through September probably.

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Posted by SSW9389 on Monday, February 23, 2009 9:15 AM

We are getting somewhere with the photo now. Railwayman recognized the structure, but has not given the game away. This photo was taken after the PCC car was established. This is not EMD's staff, but many of the persons in the photo might be on some railroads staff or a company staff. This group often met at a club after the day was done to discuss things. oldmannd is correct that this is a training class of some sort. henry 6 is correct that this was in warm weather, because the city this is in does have a full winter.

Ed 

 

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, February 23, 2009 9:23 AM

An AAR committee?  Westinghouse in Pittsburg or Springfield, MA at an air brake school or convention?   Or an ALCO class at Schenectady?  I mean my mind is running all over the map as I watch the show showers out my office window!

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Posted by oltmannd on Monday, February 23, 2009 9:53 AM

henry6

An AAR committee?  Westinghouse in Pittsburg or Springfield, MA at an air brake school or convention?   Or an ALCO class at Schenectady?  I mean my mind is running all over the map as I watch the show showers out my office window!

I like the WABCO in Wilmerding guess.  Building looks about the right vintage.  They have an airbrake training school, too, and like to entertain the class after hours. (at least they did in the late 70's - they took us out to dinner one night and got us Pirate's tix, too) Perhaps this is a 24 brake training class?  Circa 1950?  (I still want to know where their hats are!  The RRers I know from that era didnt' take them off until the late 1970s!)

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Posted by SSW9389 on Monday, February 23, 2009 9:58 AM

I am awarding this one to henry6. It is Schenectady, New York. H. E. Webb was a General Foreman for Cotton Belt. He attended the ALCO-GE Diesel Electric Locomotive School in Schenectady in 1952. Cotton Belt was getting more RS-3s that year. This joint ALCO-GE school helped railroad employees understand their new motive power. The photo shows a graduating class with both students and instructors. If you have Richard Steinbrenner's ALCO A Centennial Remembrance take a look at pages 312-316. The class often met at the Locomotive Club in Niskayuna, NY after a day of instruction.  

 

H. E. Webb's graduation lighter from Diesel School is in the possession of his son Robert Webb. H. E. Webb worked for Cotton Belt from 1936 to 1978.

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, February 23, 2009 10:53 AM

If I weren't in Upstate NY I probably would never have guessed it...and I mean guessed.  Alright, my turn.  Again.  Let's brake for lunch, maybe do a little real work, and get back to y'all a little later.  I gotta think if I know anything to ask!

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, February 23, 2009 6:34 PM

Since this is February.  And Presidents Day was last week, George Washington's birthday in fact was yesterday and Abraham Lincoln's was last week.  So, this may seem very simple and academic, but anyway who was the first U.S. President to ride on a train?

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Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, February 23, 2009 7:28 PM
Andrew Jackson--in 1837, IIRC. Probably on the B&O.

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, February 23, 2009 7:59 PM

Of course.  Probably B&O as you said.  I remember a comic book from the AAR that illustrated it.

So now you ask....

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Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, February 23, 2009 8:51 PM

Here's one from my "freight car trivia" files:

During the 1950s and 1960s, the most common type of tank car was a non-pressurized tank, which carried a container specification of "ICC-103W". The "W" stood for a welded tank; an "ICC-103" would have had a riveted tank body. Nowadays, tank cars are larger, and most, if not all, of the 103s are gone. Their responsibilities have been taken over by cars with a specification of DOT-111 tank cars, with welded tanks and a test pressure specified, among other things (a typical spec would be DOT-111A100W1). So: what did the 103-type tank car have that the 111 doesn't?

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Posted by oltmannd on Monday, February 23, 2009 8:52 PM

A center sill.

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Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, February 23, 2009 8:57 PM
Nope...there are quite a few 111s with center sills.

Carl

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