Army National Guard E3MOS 91BI have multiple scales nowZ, N, HO, O, and G.
OK, the inside curve through the tunnel has been replaced. I used 3 sections of Kato Unitrack and a new piece of Atlas flex.
Starting on the town side, the Unitrack starts about 3" outside of the tunnel portal. With paint, ballast, and weathering it's not immediately apparent that the change is there. That joint is soldered. Inside the tunnel are the three pieces of Unitrack. They're not soldered, but tacked in place with a bit of white glue. Inside the tunnel yet there's a soldered joint between the last piece of Unitrack and Atlas flex. The flex comes out of the tunnel, through its spiral easement, and ends at a non-soldered expansion joint on the straightaway on the stone bridge.
Thank the good Lord I built a decent-sized access panel, or I'd still be blasting out the mountain!
I checked for electrical continuity and that works fine (although it would be nothing to drop a set of feeders if I have problems). I have to wait for the glue and ballast to dry to check for long-wheelbase operation, but everything checked out as I was laying it. Eyeballing it shows no kinks or compound curves. YET. But I think the expansion joint is in just the right spot to absorb flexing without derailing a train. Having it on a straight is the best idea I think.
Although it's always daunting to dig track out of a "completed" layout, it's a small price to pay to eliminate sub-standard operations. I imagine as the seasons change and I move around (next assignment is Kirtland AFB, NM) more problems will pop up. I keep a stock of flextrack and railjoiners just in case!
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
For all you N scale buffs I need help.
I just bought one of these for my N scale layout and it has alot of extra parts. Is it supposed to make another kit and I didn't get directions? Here is a link to walthers showin the kit.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3230
I have all the parts to build the building in the foreground. Are the extra parts for the backround building???
-dekruif
Dave Vollmer wrote: I haven't figured out where I want to cut expansion joints yet.
I haven't figured out where I want to cut expansion joints yet.
If you do that, make sure you stagger them. It'll help the rails hold the curve better.
This particular layout has only been to one show. It was cold and dry that weekend, so I doubt there was much issue. I'm convinced the problem is my lack of expansion joints and the fact that the foam roadbed has so much give (the flextrack can stretch it as it tries to straighten out).
I'm replacing the tunnel curve with Kato Unitrack. I'll solder the Unitrack to the Atlas where they connect, to reduce movement, but I'm leaving the Unitrack sections just snapped together. I'm starting the Unitrack a few inches outside the tunnel portral. It's Code 80, but the ties are a little farther apart. I hope that ballast and weathering hides this. So far the end I did looks decent.
For the other curves I resoaked the ballast and used T-pins to hold the correct curvature. Then I re-soaked the ballast with a much stronger dilluted glue mixture. We'll see how that works.
Thanks for the suggestions so far!
I have one of those ‘eastern basements' that goes through humidity changes with the seasons. My Atlas code 80 flex track is nailed through cork roadbed to a plywood base (although in hindsight I should have glued it - the nail heads look poor). I did leave a couple of expansion joints on straight-aways. No issues at all so far. The track work has been flawless since it was laid over four years ago. One extra thing I did was to prime all my bench work (every area front, back, and underneath). I'm convinced that this made a big difference in sealing it from the humidity so it won't swell. A dehumidifier helps too.
Dave - is this the same layout you bring to shows? If so, perhaps moving it around is behind the issues you're dealing with?
jwils1 wrote:Dave:Thanks for the reply. It's encouraging. I think I'll check out my LHS and take a good look at everthing and see if they think the box car setup would work. I'll also go the the train show and get as much info as I can.I really think that I do want to try it. Looks like fun!
Dave:
Thanks for the reply. It's encouraging. I think I'll check out my LHS and take a good look at everthing and see if they think the box car setup would work. I'll also go the the train show and get as much info as I can.
I really think that I do want to try it. Looks like fun!
GNP007 wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: It's possible... But you almost have to solder a joint between flextrack sections on a curve, don't you? I mean, how else are you going to keep the flextrack from snapping back straight?I probably don't have as many expansion joints as I need, though. But, the climate in the layout room stays relatively steady. It is winter, though, and the humidity is lower, so it's possible the table has contracted some.I may have to do the Dremel thing if things get worse.This is very interesting. I'm wondering if I should somehow do expansion joints with my Kato track? Maybe leave some small gaps between sections? Since the rail doesn't float like in flex track I'm wondering if I might have problems. My layout is in the family room and we keep the house at about 71-72 degrees during the colder months. It does get hotter in the summer since we don't have air though. Any thoughts from anyone?
Dave Vollmer wrote: It's possible... But you almost have to solder a joint between flextrack sections on a curve, don't you? I mean, how else are you going to keep the flextrack from snapping back straight?I probably don't have as many expansion joints as I need, though. But, the climate in the layout room stays relatively steady. It is winter, though, and the humidity is lower, so it's possible the table has contracted some.I may have to do the Dremel thing if things get worse.
It's possible... But you almost have to solder a joint between flextrack sections on a curve, don't you? I mean, how else are you going to keep the flextrack from snapping back straight?
I probably don't have as many expansion joints as I need, though. But, the climate in the layout room stays relatively steady. It is winter, though, and the humidity is lower, so it's possible the table has contracted some.
I may have to do the Dremel thing if things get worse.
This is very interesting. I'm wondering if I should somehow do expansion joints with my Kato track? Maybe leave some small gaps between sections? Since the rail doesn't float like in flex track I'm wondering if I might have problems. My layout is in the family room and we keep the house at about 71-72 degrees during the colder months. It does get hotter in the summer since we don't have air though. Any thoughts from anyone?
I just found on the Kato web site that they say to just glue one of the two posts that is molded on the underside of the track and to NOT glue any switches, crossing gates, etc. These should be allowed to float, so that they may adust for inconsistencies due to humidity and temperature on the mounting surface.
I'm thinking maybe to just glue every other track piece at one tab and let every other one float.
Rob Newman
I call it the "spaghetti incident" I walked into the train room in 2000 and overnight all off the curves where all over the place, even w/ track tacks on the curves. Flex cruved track will stay in place when glued (I use a dab of tacky glue) and pins to hold it down for 24 hours. I don't solder any joints. Make sure thier is a slight gap in each 36" section for expansion.
btw/ I have used foam and cork roadbed with no problems after that. When the problem happened I was a member of a club - Expert track layers told me what the problem was. I gosh darn guarentee you it's not the track or the roadbed.
Dave Vollmer wrote: One drawback to the track-glued-to-foam-roadbed-glued-to-Styrofoam system is the flexibility. I'm noticing kinks developing in my flextrack on curves. Now, I soldered those joints, but the tension in the rails is enough to gradually pull the stretchy foam (Woodland Scenics Trackbed) with it into a kink. Even the WS ballast I use is made of ground cork, so is flexible. Were the track nailed to a plywood or homasote roadbed, I'd be fine.
One drawback to the track-glued-to-foam-roadbed-glued-to-Styrofoam system is the flexibility. I'm noticing kinks developing in my flextrack on curves. Now, I soldered those joints, but the tension in the rails is enough to gradually pull the stretchy foam (Woodland Scenics Trackbed) with it into a kink. Even the WS ballast I use is made of ground cork, so is flexible. Were the track nailed to a plywood or homasote roadbed, I'd be fine.
I have not used foam roadbed. From your description, I would hazzard a guess that the foam roadbed isn't strong enough to hold the track in position. Flex track, especially Atlas brand, has a tendency to want to straighten out unless it is held in place securely. Foam roadbed may not be up to the task.
Imagine looking at a cross section of your roadbed. The base layer, whether it's foam or plywood, is pretty stable. The track is also very stable, except for that tendency to straighten. What is BETWEEN the two is a very flexible, UNstable foam roadbed! Yes, it sticks to the base and to the tracks, but in between, it's not very stable at all! The tension of the flex track trying to straighten itself out pulls at the roadbed.
If the problem is in one area, you may want to replace that foam roadbed with something more substantial, like cork roadbed. Using pre-formed track, like Kato's, is another possible solution.
The downside of using more substantial materials is the transmission of sound. The denser and more stable the base, roadbed and track is, the more sound is transmitted through the materials. Given a choice of high noise level versus derailments, I'd put up with more noise!
Darrell, quiet...for now
I'm regreting my choice of track and roadbed system. I used Atlas Code 80 flextrack with Peco turnouts (the Peco turnouts are actually pretty good).
What should I have done?
1. Maybe Kato Unitrack... but it's VERY expensive. Plus, the guys I know who have painted and ballasted it to look better warn about a level of caution around turnouts (get glue inside them and you're hosed) that I'm not sure I'm capable of.
2. Atlas Code 55. I could have laid my curves using sectional Code 55 (they offer a huge selection of radii) and soldered the joints for continuity.
One of my kinks is developing in a tunnel. I have an access hatch for retrieving trains, but it's going to be a bear to fix track. I may replace that stretch with Unitrack since it's Code 80, hidden in a tunnel, and the same radius offered by Kato (13 3/4").
I would get the Kato Rerailer or the Rix one, I'm 16 and I loose so many parts its not funny. I have some Unitrack and Its great, But its too expensive for a large layout when you're on a high school budget. So I use Atlas Code 55.
On another note I finished my mainline today and I ran my first train today about about 5:30PM. I also made a trip to the LHS and Ordered an Atlas NS GP38 with a Decoder.
Mailman wrote: jwils1 wrote:I'm getting "cold feet" about trying N scale. I've read this entire thread, finding much valuable information and some very nice people. But, because of the following I'm concerned about it:73 year old fingers.No sound in locos (at least not what I want to run in N......modern diesels)At my age, I'm not too adept at handling tiny, little things. I do okay in HO but even there I don't think I would want to try installing decoders. And I really don't like running locos without sound, although I usually turn on only one at time.So, I think I'll wait a little while to make the decision. I'll wait until our train show in February and look at N closely, talk to some people about it, and then decide.If I do try it I think I would use Kato Unitrack, DCC equipped locos and M-T coupler/trucks.One more thing, has anyone ever put sound in an N scale box car? I have a couple of these in HO for my older, non-sound locos and they work well for me. Regarding #1, just get a Rix Products rerailer (or whatever they call it). I got one at my LHS for $2, and like it so much, I got one for HO too. Outstanding piece of equipment; incredibly simple, works every time. You could be blind and run N scale just fine with it.
jwils1 wrote:I'm getting "cold feet" about trying N scale. I've read this entire thread, finding much valuable information and some very nice people. But, because of the following I'm concerned about it:73 year old fingers.No sound in locos (at least not what I want to run in N......modern diesels)At my age, I'm not too adept at handling tiny, little things. I do okay in HO but even there I don't think I would want to try installing decoders. And I really don't like running locos without sound, although I usually turn on only one at time.So, I think I'll wait a little while to make the decision. I'll wait until our train show in February and look at N closely, talk to some people about it, and then decide.If I do try it I think I would use Kato Unitrack, DCC equipped locos and M-T coupler/trucks.One more thing, has anyone ever put sound in an N scale box car? I have a couple of these in HO for my older, non-sound locos and they work well for me.
I'm getting "cold feet" about trying N scale. I've read this entire thread, finding much valuable information and some very nice people. But, because of the following I'm concerned about it:
At my age, I'm not too adept at handling tiny, little things. I do okay in HO but even there I don't think I would want to try installing decoders. And I really don't like running locos without sound, although I usually turn on only one at time.
So, I think I'll wait a little while to make the decision. I'll wait until our train show in February and look at N closely, talk to some people about it, and then decide.
If I do try it I think I would use Kato Unitrack, DCC equipped locos and M-T coupler/trucks.
One more thing, has anyone ever put sound in an N scale box car? I have a couple of these in HO for my older, non-sound locos and they work well for me.
I second the Rix rail-it ramp. I'm just half of his age and I think those things are a neccessity regardless of age, especially if you're dealing with code 55 and lower rail (putting a car on the tracks on Code 80 is a little easier for me but I'm going with Code 55 for my mainlines.
Speaking of sounds in rolling stock, anyone who has railfanned knows that rolling stock makes their own sounds, not just the clickety-clack or the screeching of brakes but the aerodynamic "wooshing" sound especially from Auto-Carriers and container cars. Not to mention the random banging of metal here and there.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
jwils1 wrote: I'm getting "cold feet" about trying N scale. I've read this entire thread, finding much valuable information and some very nice people. But, because of the following I'm concerned about it:73 year old fingers.No sound in locos (at least not what I want to run in N......modern diesels)At my age, I'm not too adept at handling tiny, little things. I do okay in HO but even there I don't think I would want to try installing decoders. And I really don't like running locos without sound, although I usually turn on only one at time.So, I think I'll wait a little while to make the decision. I'll wait until our train show in February and look at N closely, talk to some people about it, and then decide.If I do try it I think I would use Kato Unitrack, DCC equipped locos and M-T coupler/trucks.One more thing, has anyone ever put sound in an N scale box car? I have a couple of these in HO for my older, non-sound locos and they work well for me.
I've never tried sound in a boxcar. I mount my HO sound decoders with speakers under my layout and it works for me. Onboard sound in N is coming... probably a few more years yet until it's fairly common.
As for 73-year-old fingers, I've met lots of N scalers older than that, and some that even scratchbuild! What's great is that you want to model modern railroading. In N most of the modern stuff is already ready-to-run... so there's not much your fingers would need to do other than take the engines and cars out of the boxes and onto the layout. As long as you can do normal maintenance like cleaning the wheels and lubing the gears, there's not much else you'd need to do (unless you want to!). My recommendation is to use a trick I use (but certainly didn't invent), and that's to bury re-railer track sections in your grade crossings. It really helps when it's time to put your trains on the tracks.
Also, if you want to do modern, you'll need a whole lot more space to do it in HO, what with those 6-axle diesels and 89' cars. N scale is very well suited to the modern modeler.
Kato Unitrack sounds like a great choice for you. I waffle back and forth between wanting to go ultra-reliable (Unitrack) and ultra-realistic (Atlas code 55), but if I were new to N scale and had concerns about eyesight and manual dexterity, I'd go Unitrack in an instant.
Otherwise, you should consider investing in a magnifying visor (hey, that'd be helpful in HO too!), good lightining for your workbench, and consider painting your workbench flat white. That will help if you do need to do any work.
Good luck, and I hope you give N a try!
SpaceMouse wrote:Theoretical question:I have a LL GP-20 that I've never run and I paid around $15 for 2 years ago. I have an NCE N-decoder I got for putting an HO 4-4-0.I have the Micro couplers I need to convert the Rapidos.Am I wasting my effort, time and money on the LL Geep?
Theoretical question:
I have a LL GP-20 that I've never run and I paid around $15 for 2 years ago.
I have an NCE N-decoder I got for putting an HO 4-4-0.
I have the Micro couplers I need to convert the Rapidos.
Am I wasting my effort, time and money on the LL Geep?
Craig
I know I am slow, but I just figured out that I can possible fit an HO scale sound decoder or an N scale sound decoder with an HO speaker into a dummy locomotive.
Does anyone make a good looking dummy. Should I be thinking about an L-cheapo LL or something to gut?
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
SpaceMouse wrote:Jay & Mark,That would be what I hoped, and that is how they described the SD-90. But the SD-70 just said DCC friendly.Would the MRC sound chip fit in that sucker?
Jay & Mark,
That would be what I hoped, and that is how they described the SD-90. But the SD-70 just said DCC friendly.
Would the MRC sound chip fit in that sucker?
Afraid I can't help with that one. My guess is "no."
- Mark