Have fun with your trains
claycts wrote: Reality Check!! If Iran fires Nukes, non of this matters!
Reality Check!!
If Iran fires Nukes, non of this matters!
IF Iran fires nukes, all the more reason to enjoy trains in our last 30 minutes from doomsday.
Ye forget, Some of us recall the NIKE missile batteries back in the 60's. Living 30 minutes from the end of the world. (Travel time of a Ballistic Missile from Moscow to USA.)
If Iran did pop a nuke and broke things; killed people we probably will respond. The real problem is USSR and China. What will they do? Dont tell me anything about the UN. They have proven themselves to be pacifist paper loving peaceniks who are unable to do anything effective other than sitting around a large room and pass resolutions.
BRAKIE wrote: Figure house payment /rent-$400-800.00 a month gas for 2 cars @ 287.9gal,Lee jeans 24.99,a case of pop $5.99,humburger$2.99 pound etc.I still don't believe such malarkey that the Feds put out..BY observation at the clubs and train shows I think the Feds and their cohorts are way off Base considering house and car payments for the AVERAGE WORKING AMERICAN and not the 65,000/year upper middle class.More disposable income in the US? Only in the minds of the Feds. As far as that use car remember folks a new car was $1200.00 today a like car will be $24-30,000 with payments in the 300s. Back to topic.Thankfully we have a price buster-our computers..Use it.
Figure house payment /rent-$400-800.00 a month gas for 2 cars @ 287.9gal,Lee jeans 24.99,a case of pop $5.99,humburger$2.99 pound etc.I still don't believe such malarkey that the Feds put out..BY observation at the clubs and train shows I think the Feds and their cohorts are way off Base considering house and car payments for the AVERAGE WORKING AMERICAN and not the 65,000/year upper middle class.More disposable income in the US? Only in the minds of the Feds.
As far as that use car remember folks a new car was $1200.00 today a like car will be $24-30,000 with payments in the 300s.
Back to topic.Thankfully we have a price buster-our computers..Use it.
I mean no offense, because I am going to take issue with your post, Brakie. Please hear me out...
You included a case of pop in your list of ostensibly needed items. To me, that is unthinkable. Juice, maybe, milk for sure, but good old tea and tap water are better than the others..no calories and little cost. Brand name jeans? Why? Ego and vanity. Did we spend money on flat panel LCD televsions sets, MP3 players, DVDs, video rentals, professional hockey jerseys, season's tickets to football, lottery tickets (I'm gonna barf!), power washers, power mowers, a new bar-b-que every three or four years, ...I could go on? No, few things like that were available, and our lives were so much less cluttered therby.
I recall George Carlin's comedic presentation where he talks about our modern penchant for "stuff". We build bigger houses so that we can store more and more "stuff".
The reason we have all this "stuff" is because the majority of us:a. want it; and b. can aquire it with disposable income. Where is this disposable income? It comes by way of the interest most of us pay on our credit. If you can't pay your interest, you don't have the credit.
If one buys without resorting to credit, one is wise, but one still has income. If one buys items not needed to survive, one has disposable income.
A small sampling of homes in any borough in any N. American city greater than, say, 50,000 will clearly show that most of us make more money than we need, and that is evinced in the items stored, unused or used, what George would call "stuff".
We all make our choices and allowances. Blaming others for perceived roadblocks in life never got them removed.
Anyway, I agree wholeheartedly that a body should be able to call their own shots. I still have to jerk my own leash at times and tell myself to get real. I am human.
Well, 600 dollars for the electronics (DCC and power supply) 1000 dollars for the motive power and another 500 for the rolling stock plus 400 or so in structures.
**Taps calculator...$2500. Over 2 years and not yet into scenery, track and switches. Those are one time costs. Once you have the items, you can make them last a long time.
But Im having fun this year! Are ye?
Lynn
Present Layout progress
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/290127/3372174.aspx#3372174
So, it seems to me, that while certain items have become over priced (e.g brass & some locomotives) we (the average Amercian) also have a lot more disposable income in the US than we did about 50 years ago...
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Actually, Brakie, Gumby is pretty correct. I plugged the $10 figure into a couple of online inflation calculators (using actual data from 1956-2006) and the range was $73.73 - 75.10, so he is DEAD nuts on. This is based on the CPI (consumer price index) which in 1956 was 27.3-27.6; currently it is 203.5. The average car (new) at the time cost ~$2500; this would equate to ~$18500 today. The average (median) yearly income ranged from $2400-3600, depending on where you get your data. This equates to $18000-26500 in today's dollars. In 2004, the US median income was $44389.
Brian
BRAKIE wrote:Gumby4,I don't think $10.00 in 1956 is $74.95 in todays market..$10.00 back in the 50s would by a lot of stuff.$74.95 won't buy much today at full MRSP.I suspect it would buy 2 pair of Lee jeans though.Back in 56 you could buy a good use late model car for $50.00 now a good use late model car will cost around $8,500-14,000 plus interest rate for the loan..Back in 1956 Athearn cars was 99 cents,you could buy a Tenshado GP7 for $21.95..How about a United AT&SF 2-8-0 for $34.95? Calculators isn't the best way to compare prices in the 50 to today..Even the cost of living was cheaper back then.
Gumby4,I don't think $10.00 in 1956 is $74.95 in todays market..$10.00 back in the 50s would by a lot of stuff.$74.95 won't buy much today at full MRSP.I suspect it would buy 2 pair of Lee jeans though.Back in 56 you could buy a good use late model car for $50.00 now a good use late model car will cost around $8,500-14,000 plus interest rate for the loan..Back in 1956 Athearn cars was 99 cents,you could buy a Tenshado GP7 for $21.95..How about a United AT&SF 2-8-0 for $34.95?
Calculators isn't the best way to compare prices in the 50 to today..Even the cost of living was cheaper back then.
One Track Mind wrote:Can't help it: I'm not piling on CNJ831, but while this thread continues to roll along, it amuses me that just Friday I felt the need to soothe an apologetic customer who felt bad because he was "just an armchair model railroader." This guy has bought a lot...a LOT of magazines and books from me over the years...I explained that in our tolerant hobby, ahem, there has always been armchair model railroaders...that there is more of them than you would think...and that they enjoy the hobby vicariously. But according to the definition given somewhere in this thread, shall we just refer to these folks as "armchairs" from now on since according to the definition they cannot be armchair model railroaders? Sorry, just being a little facetious this afternoon.
BXCARMIKE wrote:True,Brakie, but I think price was still fairly relative. Maybe with the got to have now, instant gratification mentality of today, manufactuers smell easy money. Maybe they up the ante more by making limited runs, so you got to get now or else, keeps prices up,so we all become victims. It's still a hobby, sometimes an addiction ,but a hobby and it's something that's going to cost money. .
I agree..Those super detail locomotives are nice but,sorry to say ran the price up in the process.As long as we have guys cheering on the manufacturers by saying things like"you get what you pay for",I want this or that,more details and other sayings similar to that the manufacturers will keep seeing $$$$$ in their eyes.
However,everything has a price ceiling as Walthers found out and thus they lowered the price (a little) on the P2K locomotives.Atlas saw the approaching price limits we are willing to pay(perhaps through smaller limited run preorders?) and started the Trainman line..You know some how I don't think Atlas started this line on a whim or as a after thought..
BXCARMIKE wrote:This hobby's never been inexpensive, back when athearns were had for under two bucks, wages were relative. Now for some, moneys never been a problem, but most of us are budgeting families, homes, cars, etc, so it's not cheap. even scratch building costs money, tools, glues, paints, what have you. All hobbys are expensive. a newbie will shell out a small fortune eventually to achieve one of those dream model railroads. I'm avoiding the whole layout debate, and yes you can do a bare bones layout, but I'll bet more people would prefer some sort of scenicked design, just read this forum, someones always asking about static grass, rock castings,crossings, painting bricks etc,etc, so they;re leaning towards some sembelence of scenery. Just look at your work bench, there's files, spue cutters, pliers, drills, vises, adhesives,paint, airbrushes,the list is long, even MR's basic tools that's in yearly issue standard will have you spending bucks. If you like trains, you find a way to get what you need, maybe some guys should sell off some old stuff and then have the cash for the latest fad. You can run with the big dogs or stay on the porch, the choice, as always, is yours...............................................MIKE
Mike,Let us not forget in the days of Athearn $1.50 car kits there was a lot of Unionized manufacturing jobs that paid good wages then as well as skilled trades.Of course there was still high paying white collar jobs then as well and the cost of living was not as bad as todays. Thats why brass locomotives was both affordable and popular in that era.
Its like any other interests in life, YOU decide if you wish to spend or not.
My wife thinks about like this, if I were into dirt bikes I would have to spend what $6000 on a bike and have to have a trailer or truck to take it out to an aproved place to ride it. Now years ago, say 1988 the same bike would go for $2000 and gas was much cheaper to. My layout is in the garage and she always knows where I am and who I am with (She likes that part). I can work on the layout or run trains any time I desire.
Years ago I spoke with the late Wit Towers about this and he responded that you simply budget and stick to it. He said he would do $1 a week, alot back in the '50-'60 era, and when he did not spend his weekly allowance it was added to the next week. It was a hobby not a nessecity for life so he kept it in check. I am not that self diciplined. I know what the major expenses are( control, locos, etc...) and I simply waite for a birthday, Christmas, or Fathers day to come around for the bigger ticket items.
The expense of it all and the time to dedicate to the layout are the main factors in limiting may layout to 15x17 on two walls of the garage. I built partitions on my limit lines and I am sticking to it. Once the you get to a point where you have the control system and locos you want the rest is mostly time.
John
Why can't they just all buy brass?
(with apologies to a headless and deceased queen.)
Tyco trainset versus Kato?
Thats akin to comparing my Ford Escort to a Cadillac and there lays the rub of many today's modelers..They never compare like brands..Tyco Vs Model Power Vs the Bachmann train set, Athearn vs Walthers vs. Atlas Train Line..Genesis(non sound) vs Atlas Silver line* VS Kato..See how it SHOULD work? But,in order to prove their worthless Escort/Caddy comparison they blend low end and high end models together.See?
* No use to compare Atlas's "Gold Line" as its just the silver line with sound unless one is comparing sound units..That is why I didn't include BLI or Genesis sound units.
BRAKIE wrote: Bill H. wrote: RMax1 wrote: You get what you pay for. CHEAP IS CHEAP and doesn't last. The more you pay the better the quality is and it will last longer. The above comment manages to eclipse even CNJ831... Bill,I saw that comment and chose to ignore it because its a very narrow minded observation and one that has very little knowledge that borders on the foolish side and doesn't deserve a reply.
Bill H. wrote: RMax1 wrote: You get what you pay for. CHEAP IS CHEAP and doesn't last. The more you pay the better the quality is and it will last longer. The above comment manages to eclipse even CNJ831...
RMax1 wrote: You get what you pay for. CHEAP IS CHEAP and doesn't last. The more you pay the better the quality is and it will last longer.
You get what you pay for. CHEAP IS CHEAP and doesn't last. The more you pay the better the quality is and it will last longer.
Bill,I saw that comment and chose to ignore it because its a very narrow minded observation and one that has very little knowledge that borders on the foolish side and doesn't deserve a reply.
Every hobby that I can think of has gotten more expensive over my life time and I am only 21 years of age.
I just save my little bit of extra cash and all my change. Then when I get ready to go to my LHS I buy what I can of what I need.I don't know any body in this hobby that has said I am going to build a layout or a new one and walked into a hobby store and bought every thing they needed in one day. Why, because I do not know any one that can afford to do so.People will continue to buy hobby items because they love it and they have or will meet great people in the process.
Just my thoughts.Baker