Too bad if it's true, my Proto 0-8-0 is one of the best running steamers I have ever seen.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Well my Walthers Proto heavy 2-10-2 had very cheap valve gear that buckled too easily at less than 45 minutes run time when a screw backed out. Selling dealer repaired but it was no good and didnt work properly. Walthers did replace with a new one which I sold immediately. I did not trust that model enough to try the second one. I really wanted the C&S engine and was very disappointed, and it was not running very fast at all when the valve gear buckled...I just couldnt tell what had happened...till it was too late...Lost $200 dumping the replacement because they were hard to sell. Come to think of it, most brass models held their value much much better than that for me.
Brass fans tell me I am much better off with the more costly brass steamers. The newer ones are very good though also costly but I get what I pay for.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Doughless Probably supply and demand. I model modern and can tell you that any locomotive with working fore and aft ditchlights, or anything with conspicuity stripes, or rolling stock with the "TTX" herald sells out quickly and at a premium. Perhaps they recognize an underserved market and will be concentrating on more contemporary products. No doubt that "current" railroading is a popular market. But countless surveys continue to show the transistion era to be the most modeled. A recent survey by the NMRA region is my area gave transistion era modeling a 60% ranking with all other eras sharing the remaining 40%. As for Walthers and the Proto steam line, they did a little when they first bought the Proto line, they did the back dated Y3, and several runs of the other items, and the 2-10-2 Heavy. But clearly there has been no real action recently. As for tooling wearing out? maybe, maybe not. Not that hard or expensive to retool all or part these days after the primary engineering is done. I think the real problem is money, the exchange rate, rising costs in China, soft market for these products here, unwillingness or inability to tie up money in inventory, and the changing face of this hobby. Before the 1980's, nobody ever sold model trains for more than 20% below retail and they considered inventory like a savings account. Most modelers were the "serious" type, and gradually accumulated what they wanted and needed for their layouts. But by the 90's we had a new breed as well, collectors/casual modelers, willing to buy more expensive RTR, less concerned about kits, or building whole trains or believeable rosters and more conserned about collecting their favorite famous locos (at big prices but with big discounts) and building layouts simply as a display backdrop to run them on. This has changed the market, and changed the money dynamic of being a model train manufacturer. These comments are not "the hobby is dieing", BUT, the hobby has changed and it has changed how manufacturers view their investment in product. And, I do suspect that some new entrants into the hobby who may have become "serious" modelers, are frustrated with "preorder availability" and this has effected the depth or degree of involement they have in the hobby. I have said before, and will say again, if I was getting into this hobby right now - I would not. The difficulty of obtaining related products to build a layout with continuity today would scare me away - especially because I'm not one who is real comfortable buying stuff "used". Again, happy I have most of what I want. Sheldon
Doughless Probably supply and demand. I model modern and can tell you that any locomotive with working fore and aft ditchlights, or anything with conspicuity stripes, or rolling stock with the "TTX" herald sells out quickly and at a premium. Perhaps they recognize an underserved market and will be concentrating on more contemporary products.
Probably supply and demand.
I model modern and can tell you that any locomotive with working fore and aft ditchlights, or anything with conspicuity stripes, or rolling stock with the "TTX" herald sells out quickly and at a premium.
Perhaps they recognize an underserved market and will be concentrating on more contemporary products.
No doubt that "current" railroading is a popular market. But countless surveys continue to show the transistion era to be the most modeled. A recent survey by the NMRA region is my area gave transistion era modeling a 60% ranking with all other eras sharing the remaining 40%.
As for Walthers and the Proto steam line, they did a little when they first bought the Proto line, they did the back dated Y3, and several runs of the other items, and the 2-10-2 Heavy.
But clearly there has been no real action recently. As for tooling wearing out? maybe, maybe not. Not that hard or expensive to retool all or part these days after the primary engineering is done.
I think the real problem is money, the exchange rate, rising costs in China, soft market for these products here, unwillingness or inability to tie up money in inventory, and the changing face of this hobby.
Before the 1980's, nobody ever sold model trains for more than 20% below retail and they considered inventory like a savings account. Most modelers were the "serious" type, and gradually accumulated what they wanted and needed for their layouts.
But by the 90's we had a new breed as well, collectors/casual modelers, willing to buy more expensive RTR, less concerned about kits, or building whole trains or believeable rosters and more conserned about collecting their favorite famous locos (at big prices but with big discounts) and building layouts simply as a display backdrop to run them on.
This has changed the market, and changed the money dynamic of being a model train manufacturer.
These comments are not "the hobby is dieing", BUT, the hobby has changed and it has changed how manufacturers view their investment in product.
And, I do suspect that some new entrants into the hobby who may have become "serious" modelers, are frustrated with "preorder availability" and this has effected the depth or degree of involement they have in the hobby.
I have said before, and will say again, if I was getting into this hobby right now - I would not.
The difficulty of obtaining related products to build a layout with continuity today would scare me away - especially because I'm not one who is real comfortable buying stuff "used".
Again, happy I have most of what I want.
Sheldon
I can't speak for the hobby in total, or who or what is more popular than others, but I will say that its my perception that there is a shortage of more modern products relative to demand.
I'm sure that companies want to serve as many markets as they can, but companies can't build everything at the same time, so steam may be taking a longer hiatus at Walthers these days.
Again, when an Athearn hi cube boxcar "TTX" routinely sells for 50 to 60 dollars, as does a rather generically detailed Atlas Trainman bulkead flat; or, when the long in the tooth tooled Athearn 62 foot tank care painted in BNSF swoosh sheme with conspicuity stripes smokes all other painted variations, I simply assume that there is not enough supply for the demand those cars generate.
Also, Atlas imports the 53 foot Evans boxcar. The repaint and patched HHPX version with conspicuity stripes fetches 25 bucks NIB on the internet auction market, and they don't last long. Even more traditional popular roadnames like UP and BN only get about 15 bucks.
Kaolin tank cars NIB (I live in Georgia now so I'm interested) in the modern Dupont or ACFX scheme go for twice the price as the older names seen more in the 80s...yes, I'm calling the 80s old. Same for corn syrup tank cars.
Maybe these are one off examples, but given the abundance of steam locomotives on the market, maybe Walthers has taken notice and has decided to focus some resources on pursuing what some might think of as niches.
As far as the hobby dying, likely not, but some types of models may die off and get replaced by others as time passes and resources stay finite.
- Douglas
oldline1We're so fortunate to have such great stuff that complaining seems petty to me.
There are many great roads of the past that just aren't offered in great quantity, great detail and quality that LL used to offer. Roads like: SP, Southern, Seaboard, C&O, C&S, CB&Q, Virginian just to name a few. I miss the unique models and quality the like of the 2-10-2, the Y3, and the 0-8-0/0-6-0. Unfortunately no one really offers a lot of "small" steam for these older railways.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Although I diesels I pre-ordered the USRA 0-8-0 NYC switcher. Later on Walthers cancelled the whole thing due to. Not enough people were interested. This was in N during the same time as the HO version.
I would like to run some steam but not a lot of selections. When you do want to buy one they're all sold out.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
jrbernier Where do tjese rumors come from? Or is this like the 'False News' in the political arena...
Where do tjese rumors come from? Or is this like the 'False News' in the political arena...
Well, "rumor or false news", a search of Walther's web site under HO will find NO Proto steam offered. Over 1000 listings for other companies, but zero for "Walthers". Draw you own conclusions.
I have not heard that rumor. It seems every couple of years they reissue the 0-8-0. Perhaps they are about due. But if there is something to the rumor, my hunch is that Walthers MIGHT be a bit fatigued with the high maintenance/high repair rates with steam. As has been noted elsewhere on these forums, they do not have or stock spare parts, so when warranty repairs are needed they have to go to the shelves and raid an otherwise saleable engine for needed parts. That is true of their rolling stock and structures as well which is why we local Milwaukee area kitbashers go to Walthers often because the raided boxes end up on their "as is" bookcases.
Dave Nelson
ATSFGuy I have yet to see any CGW or L&N Steam.
I have yet to see any CGW or L&N Steam.
I am a first generation diesel guy myself, CGW was deiselized 1949, one of the first. Still I would love to get a 2-10-4 or a 2-8-2 in CGW, I do not believe it will happen tho.
Mike
The Y-3's were awesome engines in every way. My USRA 0-6-0 was the best steamer I had until my recent Roco S-160 arrived. The P2K Berk is pretty nice but I don't like the super thin tires on all drivers. It just offends my senses to not have tires.
As much as I get tired of seeing USRA's and Pig Boys coming from every manufacturer the fact is they sell and that's what this is really all about. Why does BLI have a steady stream of Belpaire fireboxes coming out? THEY SELL! I would love to see a Virginian MB or PA (NO...not a diesel) or a Ma&Pa Heavy 2-8-0 or a Norfolk Southern F-1 2-8-4 but how many do you think they could sell compared to ANOTHER USRA Light Mike? Not enough to pay the costs unfortunately. Same with all those F and E units. How about a T-6?
We're so fortunate to have such great stuff that complaining seems petty to me.
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
ATSFGuy Why Walthers keeps limiting themselves to only the biggest roads is beyond me.
Why Walthers keeps limiting themselves to only the biggest roads is beyond me.
There's hundreds of locomotive designs to choose from, I have yet to see any CGW or L&N Steam.
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Well, I certainly hope someone continues to produce steam. I mean what would we all do without a continuous outpouring of Pig Boys and USRA's?
One ray of hope: If they "sold off the line", then maybe it will be reintroduced under some other name.
Tom
If Walthers has sold the Proto 2000 Heritage Steam line, I hope someone picks it up and runs with it. I have four P2K Heritage Steam locos that I operate on my layout along with an assortment of Broadway Limited. As far as plastic, no other line can compare with the accuracy and attention to fine detail as P2K Heritage. My P2K NKP Berkshire is one of my favorites.
I wasn't aware that Walthers ever did much, if anything, with steam.
When they purchased Life Like, that included the Proto Heritage line of steamers, but they did nothing with it.
I always considered Walthers as a diesel locomotive manufacturer.
Rich
Alton Junction
Well, Rapido is just getting into it. I imagine much of the Proto 2000 tooling that Walthers acquired from the purchase of Life-Like is becoming worn out. Maybe as a business decision Walthers is choosing not to fund any future projects.
They have cancelled some of their recent passenger offerings, too.
Regards, Ed
I heard a few rumblings that Walthers is done with steam. One.that says they even sold off the line.
That would be a shame because that leaves only bachmann and bli for a steam selection of non common steam (other than another big boy, challenger, FEF, or Allegheny)