I paid $80 & $90 for two new 2nd run Proto 2000 0-8-0s...and that was 10 years ago. I recently bought a 1st run Proto 2000 0-8-0 (discounted) from a LHS but still paid well-below MSRP for it. (It had been sitting in the owner's display case for a while so I was happy to take it off his hands and his inventory.) Great little runners...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
JEREMY CENTANNI Don't worry, Walthers will rerun the 0-8-0, 2-8-8-2 or 2-10-2 at any time now. At the obligatory minimum of $50 or a $100 more than the last identical run...........
Don't worry, Walthers will rerun the 0-8-0, 2-8-8-2 or 2-10-2 at any time now.
At the obligatory minimum of $50 or a $100 more than the last identical run...........
Retail or street price, name one thing you buy that is the same price it was 5 or 10 years ago?
I have two of the 2-8-8-2, and two of the 0-8-0, did not pay retail, but consider them a great value at the prices I paid - new in the box, not yet touched by North American hands.
Sheldon
BMMECNYC Jeremy Centanni Don't worry, Walthers will rerun the 0-8-0, 2-8-8-2 or 2-10-2 at any time now. At the obligatory minimum of $50 or a $100 more than the last identical run........... Apparently Jeremy missed this.. Steven Otte Let's not turn this into another "oh no the hobby is getting so expensive" thread, or I'll have to merge it. Also I just picked up a beautiful, lightly used, working 0-8-0 for $80. So I dont see your point. I have found both dozens of 0-6-0s and 0-8-0s from the proto 2000 line for less than half of Walthers MSRP. And thats not what you pay anyway. Bonus it was already lettered in my free-lance railroad, and it inspired me to contact Highball Grapics to check if he did the decals for it, which he did. I now have enough decals to reletter about 40 steam locomotives for my proto-freelanced road.
Jeremy Centanni Don't worry, Walthers will rerun the 0-8-0, 2-8-8-2 or 2-10-2 at any time now. At the obligatory minimum of $50 or a $100 more than the last identical run...........
Apparently Jeremy missed this..
Steven Otte Let's not turn this into another "oh no the hobby is getting so expensive" thread, or I'll have to merge it.
Let's not turn this into another "oh no the hobby is getting so expensive" thread, or I'll have to merge it.
Also I just picked up a beautiful, lightly used, working 0-8-0 for $80.
So I dont see your point. I have found both dozens of 0-6-0s and 0-8-0s from the proto 2000 line for less than half of Walthers MSRP. And thats not what you pay anyway.
Bonus it was already lettered in my free-lance railroad, and it inspired me to contact Highball Grapics to check if he did the decals for it, which he did. I now have enough decals to reletter about 40 steam locomotives for my proto-freelanced road.
I agree with you totally, got a 2-8-8-2 used for a dream price with a garbage weathering job and an 0-8-0 thats works flawlessly. But retail me not :-)
ATLANTIC CENTRALBut, if you buy it undecorated, it should come with all the detail parts and be able to be built "as built" unless advertised otherwise. Sheldon
Nothing stays as built for long..Even by '54 railroads started tweaking their stock GP7 with various railroad specific parts even if it was different types of horns like (say) from single "blat" horns to chime horns or added spark arrestors or all weather cab windows.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Doughless ATLANTIC CENTRAL Doughless Collecting is fine. Operating is fine. There isn't much difference to me if people purchase a high volume of the same product, regardless of their reason. My opinion is that the segment of the market that feels they don't have enough PRR GP9's in their "collection" or "operating fleet" (same thing to me) and are waiting for Walthers or Athearn to produce another run is diminishing relative to the people who could use a generic black GP 9 with fore and aft ditch lights, paper filter box, and conspicuity stripes. This is just an observation by the prices and shelf time I see for NIB same ol' same ol' stuff compared to the more modern stuff. Maybe, maybe not. I buy mostly undecorated to letter ATLANTIC CENTRAL, beyond that I only buy first generation paint scheme B&O, C&O and WESTERN MARYLAND. I do have a fleet, 6 of this, 8 of that, 12 of those, etc, because I pull long trains. Every diesel mainline train is pulled by 3 to 6 units, most steam is double headed. And it is 1954...... I don't buy anything thst does not serve a purpose on the layout. Sheldon As you pointed out, as time passes, modelers have more choices about what to model. Also as time passes, the amount of time a locomotive looks "as-built" diminishes compared to the amount of time looking "as modified". If you want GP7s and GP9s as they looked in 1954, then those modifications don't matter obviously. But if for modelers who run GP38/40s, SDs, U boats, 23-7s, MP15s, or GP15s, what they look like in the past 20 years is mattering more and more than what they looked like as-built.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Doughless Collecting is fine. Operating is fine. There isn't much difference to me if people purchase a high volume of the same product, regardless of their reason. My opinion is that the segment of the market that feels they don't have enough PRR GP9's in their "collection" or "operating fleet" (same thing to me) and are waiting for Walthers or Athearn to produce another run is diminishing relative to the people who could use a generic black GP 9 with fore and aft ditch lights, paper filter box, and conspicuity stripes. This is just an observation by the prices and shelf time I see for NIB same ol' same ol' stuff compared to the more modern stuff. Maybe, maybe not. I buy mostly undecorated to letter ATLANTIC CENTRAL, beyond that I only buy first generation paint scheme B&O, C&O and WESTERN MARYLAND. I do have a fleet, 6 of this, 8 of that, 12 of those, etc, because I pull long trains. Every diesel mainline train is pulled by 3 to 6 units, most steam is double headed. And it is 1954...... I don't buy anything thst does not serve a purpose on the layout. Sheldon
Doughless Collecting is fine. Operating is fine. There isn't much difference to me if people purchase a high volume of the same product, regardless of their reason. My opinion is that the segment of the market that feels they don't have enough PRR GP9's in their "collection" or "operating fleet" (same thing to me) and are waiting for Walthers or Athearn to produce another run is diminishing relative to the people who could use a generic black GP 9 with fore and aft ditch lights, paper filter box, and conspicuity stripes. This is just an observation by the prices and shelf time I see for NIB same ol' same ol' stuff compared to the more modern stuff.
Collecting is fine. Operating is fine. There isn't much difference to me if people purchase a high volume of the same product, regardless of their reason.
My opinion is that the segment of the market that feels they don't have enough PRR GP9's in their "collection" or "operating fleet" (same thing to me) and are waiting for Walthers or Athearn to produce another run is diminishing relative to the people who could use a generic black GP 9 with fore and aft ditch lights, paper filter box, and conspicuity stripes. This is just an observation by the prices and shelf time I see for NIB same ol' same ol' stuff compared to the more modern stuff.
Maybe, maybe not. I buy mostly undecorated to letter ATLANTIC CENTRAL, beyond that I only buy first generation paint scheme B&O, C&O and WESTERN MARYLAND.
I do have a fleet, 6 of this, 8 of that, 12 of those, etc, because I pull long trains. Every diesel mainline train is pulled by 3 to 6 units, most steam is double headed.
And it is 1954......
I don't buy anything thst does not serve a purpose on the layout.
As you pointed out, as time passes, modelers have more choices about what to model. Also as time passes, the amount of time a locomotive looks "as-built" diminishes compared to the amount of time looking "as modified".
If you want GP7s and GP9s as they looked in 1954, then those modifications don't matter obviously.
But if for modelers who run GP38/40s, SDs, U boats, 23-7s, MP15s, or GP15s, what they look like in the past 20 years is mattering more and more than what they looked like as-built.
Agreed.
I don't spend a lot time looking at ANYTHING outside my era, but it seems to me I have seen a lot of later psint schemes with correct "modernized" details from a lot of manufacturers, just like the F7's I mentioned before.
But, if you buy it undecorated, it should come with all the detail parts and be able to be built "as built" unless advertised otherwise.
- Douglas
And it is 1954 at my house......
I don't buy anything that does not serve a purpose on the layout.
I just do not think it is that easy to assume what the market really wants just because of what you, or people you know, are doing.
Collectors are great for the hobby. They buy lots of stuff, helps keep the manufacturers going. Years ago I shared a cubical at work with an N scale collector. He went to all the train shows, buying N scale. He loves N&W, but also bought other roads as well. He had just enough track to make a circle for test running, but was otherwise not interested in running them.
Personally, I have more than enough trains for my early 50's Maryland & Pennsylvania RR in S scale.
But I collect HO and O scale trains that appeal to me - usually older pieces at a good price. I will eventually have a small layout in HO and one in O for the purpose of running my collection. I also have some Lionels that I have set up for my grandson to run.
This is a hobby, I do what is fun for me.
Enjoy
Paul
DoughlessCould any of these industries exist and be rail served today? Or repurposed into a modern pecan candy factory that receives tanks of corn syrup and hoppers of sugar?
Absolutely and they do. I don't have the time or desire to research every short line customer but,the information is there if one wishes to spend several hours researching on the internet.
----------------------------------
As far as the "glory day" industrial leads rest assured the big railroads have spun a lot of those off to various Port Authorities which in turn leases them to a short line operator. A lot of these short lines recover the freight business big railroads lost decades ago.
A lot of information can be found in Trains Magazine and Train.com especially their short line issue.
BTW, modern branch lines are seldomly built new these days, they are generally left over from "the glory days" of railroading when the original railorad built them new. But new industries pop up along these lines, and old industries are repurposed as recessions occur over the years.
I'm currently researching Thomaston Georgia. Its an interesting town with an interesting railroad history that still retains a "reverse loop" of track through the heart of it. Back when America was great (he duck's) it was full of textile mills and even had a BF Goodrich fiber tire cord plant, being close to the cotton fields.
Could any of these industries exist and be railserved today? Or repurposed into a modern pecan candy factory that receives tanks of corn syrup and hoppers of sugar?
rrinkerThat adds research and history to the hobby activities. I happen to do 1956 which is 10 years before I was born.
And researching history can be part of modeling the modern era, if one chooses. Of course, modeling the modern could only require a good camera, and not require much research, but I like to know why the mainline and rail spurs that I see are where they are.
I'm now researching the Central of Georgia and Georgia Railroad as part of understanding the NS and CSX mainlines that are near my new house. Why are those old spur tracks there, and when did the business cease being rail served? Is it plausible it could be rail served today?
The branch line I am interested in being the basis for my new Georgia based layout ends about 20 miles north of the Kaolin Clay belt (for an understanding of Kaolin, read about the Sandersville Railroad). Having an understanding of the history of the area can create a background for plausibly extending the branch line of a former CofG line into the kaolin belt and generate modern-day traffic for the layout.
Its probably not as intense as researching the Reading in the 60s, but modeling modern era doesn't discount the need for understanding history of a specific area since it provides an understanding of why the railroad is where it is and the changes and modifications it went through to get here. I think having that background leads to a much more plausible and realistic freelanced layout.
Sure, if I was going to model a modern day CSX mainline or branchline as it is today in 2017, I could just drive a few miles, take some pics, and copy that 1:87 scale in my spare room. What fun is that?
First off there are more model railroaders worldwide than ever before, 2nd, more than half don't do American. The smorgasboard is just starting as 3d printing takes hold and if you run a company you need to take this and other items into consideration. I used to buy Proto steam but not anymore, not because I don't like them but I have too many and am only looking for a deal on a 2-8-8-2 just because I want one. Most were purchaced for around $50 and looked like they were never run. There is so much stuff out there, whatever you want you can find and someone is ussually selling it cheap (except a coaling tower by Winchester models, plenty of sanding towers though and might settle for a Walthers small concrete tower).
I don't really have a horse in this race, none of the P2K steamers was ever appropriate for my railroad, and both BLI and Bachmann have only ever made 1 each. Oh and Mantua of course - all the way back to the early days of HO, that little Reading camelback got around. Their 0-6-0T isn;t quite right for the shop switcher but it can be modified.
One of the reason I model the 50's is BECAUSE it is before I was born. That adds research and history to the hobby activities. I happen to do 1956 which is 10 years before I was born. If modeling the 50's wasn't popular, I don't think Kalmbach would have published THREE books on the subject (ok, the freight cars one also included the 40's). Not to mention a whole magazine devoted to effectively the transistion era.
If there's a market, I hope Walthers adds to the P2K steamer line. But 10 people yacking on an online forum is not a market.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
tstageWhile I can appreciate and understand that, those brass locomotives would be of "no value" - to me - because it never comes out of the box or runs on my layout.
Speaking of brass..The only brass locomotive that would have any real value for me is Trains Inc EMD RS1325 made in the 60s since I would like one for my Slate Creek Rail. EMD only made two RS1325s and both went to C&IM so,the chance of seeing one in plastic is zero to none.
tstage They're valuable to you, Sheldon - that's the important thing. Tom
They're valuable to you, Sheldon - that's the important thing.
Yes Tom, a point I have made to John for years now.
PRR8259 Not everyone thinks the same as me. Once upon a time I collected coins. Years ago a bunch of collectors got into HO brass...according to Howard Zane, none of them were disappointed at the value eventually realized when they sold later on.
Not everyone thinks the same as me. Once upon a time I collected coins. Years ago a bunch of collectors got into HO brass...according to Howard Zane, none of them were disappointed at the value eventually realized when they sold later on.
John,
Coins and brass trains - at least to me - are apples and oranges. I may end up modifying a brass locomotive to my liking; given that I've only bought undecorated models so far. However, as a coin collector (and I did collect coins in my youth), I won't be drilling holes or adding a decoder to a 1955 double-die Lincoln wheat penny. That would be idiotic because a collector strives to keep his "collection" in as pristine condition as possible.
In the most recent MME videos from Brasstrains.com, there was a gentlemen referred to at the end of the program, who was a collector of brass trains - and very nice ones. They always stayed in their boxes and the only time he could view abnd enjoy them was when he looked at the detailed photos that he took of them before packing them up. While I can appreciate and understand that, those brass locomotives would be of "no value" - to me - because it never comes out of the box or runs on my layout.
Granted, it will stay in pristine condition (assuming it's stored well in a dry and humidity-controlled environment) and will most likely yield a good return on its investiment for the owner. Unfortunately, it's useless as a purchased item from my perspective. My desire is to "invest" in a plausible revenue-maker for my prototype railroad. Unless it cannot be put in running order, a locomotive in my roster will only be placed in storage to keep the dust off it while it's not in use. I have no intention of selling it; merely enjoying it because it was a part of the history of my prototype.
But, hey...it's a wide hobby and everyone can enjoy it as they desire and have the means to do so.
tstage PRR8259 One point is that used plastic mass produced steamers will not increase in value but the good, limited run brass actually does... John, That's just a foreign concept to me. The three undecorated brass locomotives that I recently purchased were purchased with the idea of 1) converting them to DCC, 2) painting and detailing them, 3) running them on my [future] layout, and 4) having something that was unique to my prototype. While I don't look to diminish the value of a particular locomotive when I convert it to DCC, its "value" is its importance in my roster; not what it will or will not fetch 5 or 10 years down the road. Tom
PRR8259 One point is that used plastic mass produced steamers will not increase in value but the good, limited run brass actually does...
One point is that used plastic mass produced steamers will not increase in value but the good, limited run brass actually does...
That's just a foreign concept to me. The three undecorated brass locomotives that I recently purchased were purchased with the idea of 1) converting them to DCC, 2) painting and detailing them, 3) running them on my [future] layout, and 4) having something that was unique to my prototype. While I don't look to diminish the value of a particular locomotive when I convert it to DCC, its "value" is its importance in my roster; not what it will or will not fetch 5 or 10 years down the road.
Tom, my two brass locos now have Bachmann tenders and say ATLANTIC CENTRAL, I wonder what that did for their "value"?
John, just like Tom said, most of us do not understand your thinking. We are not in this hobby for an investment, or even for "collecting" like coins.
We are in this hobby for some form or another of "active" model railroading.
As for how many people model steam, or why, I don't believe for one minute all the arm chair phsycology that is dispensed here.
Fact is simple, it is 2017, there is way more railroad history, and way more choices of eras to model than there was in 1968 when I started. And there are likely only a similar number of modelers, regardless of their age or exposure to steam locos. That divides up the era choices into smaller groups, it's that simple.
I know lots of young people interested in steam, I know 70 year olds who have always modeled "modern" or current their whole lives. Lots of people are interested in history, lots are not. People still re-enact the war of northern aggression, none of them were around to see it?
You are the only person on this thread talking about prices at all, nobody else cares about the price of a Proto steamer or the price of your brass loco, they only care about getting the models they want for their layouts, but I doubt many of them are willing to pay $2000 for a loco.
I dont customize much at all...sold a nice brass piece recently because the cost to have the complex paint job done would have been way more than the model would ever be worth. Instead I spent that money on something interesting and a higher quality much more detailed and painted model, which I will run.
My layout has somewhat generic western scenery. There are a lot of roadnames that can sorta fit in. I just get what I like and run it anymore. If I want to extend the steam era a little bit with late 1960's cars, then that is what I run.
Enjoy your trains.
I think there will always be some steam or transition era fans.
However, I am the youngest of a group of guys who were rabid regulars at Timonium...they mostly drifted away from playing with steamers, at least the ones still alive seem to have. I dont know if it is "been there, done that" or just simply that we tend to like what we either remember or still see.
Excepting a guy known as "100 Dollar Bill" for his legendary thriftiness when buying brass, the issue is that most of "our" little group were too young to remember steam.
I am the strange one to go to almost all steam years after having given it up.
John
Sheldon--
Well perhaps I wish I had money in real estate. One point is that used plastic mass produced steamers will not increase in value but the good, limited run brass actually does. There have been several posts in this very thread about the CGW 2-10-4. At least one amazing model of them was done recently. It is a gorgeous engine even better looking than the T&P version. I would love to own one of those models. If my memory is correct the value of the CGW version is up over 50% above the price when new.
I am not in this hobby to make money, and I just blew out most of my lesser priced trains to raise cash to get a neat Rock Island 2-8-2 that was available...I may be soon down to a couple freight cars, 2 nice hybrids and 2 nice other engines but it was worth it and I just broke down and ordered Stagner's Rock Island Steam Finale even though not a fan of his books.
I am 48, have no memory of steam save Strasburg and Steamtown, butI am enjoying learning about the last years of steam and the truly magnificent engineering that went into both the real ones and the models of them. I reached a pont where I wanted a few nice steamers even if that meant nothing else...I just like watching them run and am looking forward to seeing 1309 back from the dead.
I have no illusions. I am in a minority in the under 50 crowd. Sales of HO steam are not what they once were and it is not about the price structure at all. Perhaps not the big articulateds, but plenty of smaller Proto steamers are on the market. I owned some of them, too. It seems to me the prices have been falling on them, generally.
BMMECNYC nycstlrr I am sure my reply will just be blown right over as they usually are. Here are my 2 cents. My kids were raised with Jerry Joe`s steam on the Ohio Central. I was raised on steam when I was a kid. All of my kids ran on many trips on a Saturday out of Sugarcreek. What better thing is there (then) in Ohio? Run over to Amish county, get some cheese, meat and sodas. And take a trip behind the 1551 or 1293. Kids today no longer have this chance. Jerry quit doing this well over a decade ago. Heck, they even got to ride behind the GTW 6325 when he had it running. Ok, enough of that, it is just whipping a dead horse, as they will never return to Sugarcreek like that. A few years back, we took my son in law and oldest daughter to CVSR to ride behind the 765. My son in law had never seen a steam engine in his life. He is now hooked. That is part of the problem, todays generation has no idea what a steam engine is. I am just thankful NS lets the 765 use their tracks to Bellevue, then the 765 takes over on the Wheeling. If Walthers quits making steam, it is not our fault! Us Geezer`s know what steam is and we are kicking the bucket everyday. Todays generation and the last few, grew up with Diesel. So, they will model what they see and grew up with, I guess. I grew up in the Diesel generation but I rode steam from coast to coast. Todays middle class, hell, they can`t afford vacations. Both parents have to work just to feed their kids. I really wish people your generation would stop making assumptions/generalizations about my generation. Im 29. I model the transition era on my home layout (now awaiting re-assembly). I dont typically bring more than one or two steam locomotives to their mechanisms tending to be more susceptable to damage than a diesel. My mother was a school teacher in Indiana and my father a television repair man. Combined income was less than $60,000 a year. Yet some how I turned out a transition era modeler. May have been something to do with the N&W 1218 video tape I watched as a child several hundred times, also the Water Level Route video equally hundreds of times watched as well. nycstlrr So, I guess the demise of steam is economics. Families just can`t afford to run to Wyoming, or Pennsylvania, Indiana, to spend well over a 100 bucks to ride behind these engines that are still running, and the kids have no clue about them. Hmm or how about the thousands of people who came out to see N&W 611? Or the thousands of children who follow model steam locomotive around my club layout at train shows. This exact point was brought up tonight (these kinds of internet posts) at my clubs Wednesday dinner get to gether prior to our evening work session. There's a guy in my club who is 25 who also models transition era, and he's been seeing this same type of stuff on MRH. How about the guy on here that is building his first layout running Thomas trains? He's 16... It may be a kids show, but its still a thing. My 12 year old cousin absoutely loves steam trains. nycstlrr Plus they all have phones and every other electronic devise in front of their faces now. Off the soap box, like it did any good. Yep so what you are saying is that no boy ever got distracted from model railroading by cars and girls? The how has just changed. Also some of them are watching train videos... As for the good it did, well you got me on my soap box.
nycstlrr I am sure my reply will just be blown right over as they usually are. Here are my 2 cents. My kids were raised with Jerry Joe`s steam on the Ohio Central. I was raised on steam when I was a kid. All of my kids ran on many trips on a Saturday out of Sugarcreek. What better thing is there (then) in Ohio? Run over to Amish county, get some cheese, meat and sodas. And take a trip behind the 1551 or 1293. Kids today no longer have this chance. Jerry quit doing this well over a decade ago. Heck, they even got to ride behind the GTW 6325 when he had it running. Ok, enough of that, it is just whipping a dead horse, as they will never return to Sugarcreek like that. A few years back, we took my son in law and oldest daughter to CVSR to ride behind the 765. My son in law had never seen a steam engine in his life. He is now hooked. That is part of the problem, todays generation has no idea what a steam engine is. I am just thankful NS lets the 765 use their tracks to Bellevue, then the 765 takes over on the Wheeling. If Walthers quits making steam, it is not our fault! Us Geezer`s know what steam is and we are kicking the bucket everyday. Todays generation and the last few, grew up with Diesel. So, they will model what they see and grew up with, I guess. I grew up in the Diesel generation but I rode steam from coast to coast. Todays middle class, hell, they can`t afford vacations. Both parents have to work just to feed their kids.
I really wish people your generation would stop making assumptions/generalizations about my generation. Im 29. I model the transition era on my home layout (now awaiting re-assembly). I dont typically bring more than one or two steam locomotives to their mechanisms tending to be more susceptable to damage than a diesel.
My mother was a school teacher in Indiana and my father a television repair man. Combined income was less than $60,000 a year. Yet some how I turned out a transition era modeler. May have been something to do with the N&W 1218 video tape I watched as a child several hundred times, also the Water Level Route video equally hundreds of times watched as well.
nycstlrr So, I guess the demise of steam is economics. Families just can`t afford to run to Wyoming, or Pennsylvania, Indiana, to spend well over a 100 bucks to ride behind these engines that are still running, and the kids have no clue about them.
Hmm or how about the thousands of people who came out to see N&W 611? Or the thousands of children who follow model steam locomotive around my club layout at train shows.
This exact point was brought up tonight (these kinds of internet posts) at my clubs Wednesday dinner get to gether prior to our evening work session. There's a guy in my club who is 25 who also models transition era, and he's been seeing this same type of stuff on MRH.
How about the guy on here that is building his first layout running Thomas trains? He's 16... It may be a kids show, but its still a thing.
My 12 year old cousin absoutely loves steam trains.
nycstlrr Plus they all have phones and every other electronic devise in front of their faces now. Off the soap box, like it did any good.
Yep so what you are saying is that no boy ever got distracted from model railroading by cars and girls? The how has just changed. Also some of them are watching train videos...
As for the good it did, well you got me on my soap box.
Well said, and I'm one of those almost old guys, about to be 60. I never saw a steam loco in regular service, but my parents did take me to Strasburg on a regular basis....I model 1954, three years before my birth, and easily a decade before I had any real sense of the age or design of trains.
I too know young guys modeling the 50's, and I know guys older than me modeling todays railroads.
One big problem the manufaturers face, which I have tried to explain before, is this:
In 1968, when I started in this hobby, 1968 trains were the "modern trains", 85' piggy backs, plug door cushioned cars, wide vision cabooses. But now that stuff is "old" and there are nearly 50 years of new stuff since 1968.
But I suspect there are not a great many more modelers, so the interest in any one era is greatly diluted compared to back them. A real problem for the manufacturers....
nycstlrrI am sure my reply will just be blown right over as they usually are. Here are my 2 cents. My kids were raised with Jerry Joe`s steam on the Ohio Central. I was raised on steam when I was a kid. All of my kids ran on many trips on a Saturday out of Sugarcreek. What better thing is there (then) in Ohio? Run over to Amish county, get some cheese, meat and sodas. And take a trip behind the 1551 or 1293. Kids today no longer have this chance. Jerry quit doing this well over a decade ago. Heck, they even got to ride behind the GTW 6325 when he had it running. Ok, enough of that, it is just whipping a dead horse, as they will never return to Sugarcreek like that. A few years back, we took my son in law and oldest daughter to CVSR to ride behind the 765. My son in law had never seen a steam engine in his life. He is now hooked. That is part of the problem, todays generation has no idea what a steam engine is. I am just thankful NS lets the 765 use their tracks to Bellevue, then the 765 takes over on the Wheeling. If Walthers quits making steam, it is not our fault! Us Geezer`s know what steam is and we are kicking the bucket everyday. Todays generation and the last few, grew up with Diesel. So, they will model what they see and grew up with, I guess. I grew up in the Diesel generation but I rode steam from coast to coast. Todays middle class, hell, they can`t afford vacations. Both parents have to work just to feed their kids.
I really wish people your generation would stop making assumptions/generalizations about my generation. Im 29. I model the transition era on my home layout (now awaiting re-assembly). I dont typically bring more than one or two steam locomotives to their mechanisms tending to be more susceptable to damage than a diesel. Edit (I dont bring much steam to train shows, I typically run diesel locomotives, due to the before mentioned tendency to be fragile).
nycstlrrSo, I guess the demise of steam is economics. Families just can`t afford to run to Wyoming, or Pennsylvania, Indiana, to spend well over a 100 bucks to ride behind these engines that are still running, and the kids have no clue about them.
nycstlrrPlus they all have phones and every other electronic devise in front of their faces now. Off the soap box, like it did any good.
And now that Im done with my rant.
If I had to make guesses/assumptions, reason that Walthers didnt run steam this year is that the market is saturated with second hand 0-8-0s and 0-6-0s. Also the dies wore out for the P2K wheelsets (my last package of them had major defects). Which would indicate that maybe the dies where getting old on the originals.
I have seen no less than 6 Heritage Proto 2k steam switchers at almost every show I have been to over the last 3 years. So many that I have been able to be nitpicky about the ones I select.
For the very reason nycstlrr mentioned, older generations are dying (natural order of things) and their collections appear on the second hand market. I have had no trouble fleshing out my roster with 0-6-0s, 0-8-0s, 2-8-0s, 2-8-2s and so on. Give it time. If they see a demand they will likely run them again, but probably under the new "preorder everything" scheme that has begun to predominate the market. And they will probably re-tool. Its nothing to get excited about. Im pretty sure this is not the first year a manufacturer has not listed as steam locomotive in their product line.
nycstlrrI am sure my reply will just be blown right over as they usually are. Here are my 2 cents. My kids were raised with Jerry Joe`s steam on the Ohio Central. I was raised on steam when I was a kid. All of my kids ran on many trips on a Saturday out of Sugarcreek. What better thing is there (then) in Ohio? Run over to Amish county, get some cheese, meat and sodas. And take a trip behind the 1551 or 1293. Kids today no longer have this chance. Jerry quit doing this well over a decade ago. Heck, they even got to ride behind the GTW 6325 when he had it running. Ok, enough of that, it is just whipping a dead horse, as they will never return to Sugarcreek like that. A few years back, we took my son in law and oldest daughter to CVSR to ride behind the 765. My son in law had never seen a steam engine in his life. He is now hooked. That is part of the problem, todays generation has no idea what a steam engine is. I am just thankful NS lets the 765 use their tracks to Bellevue, then the 765 takes over on the Wheeling. If Walthers quits making steam, it is not our fault! Us Geezer`s know what steam is and we are kicking the bucket everyday. Todays generation and the last few, grew up with Diesel. So, they will model what they see and grew up with, I guess. I grew up in the Diesel generation but I rode steam from coast to coast. Todays middle class, hell, they can`t afford vacations. Both parents have to work just to feed their kids. So, I guess the demise of steam is economics. Families just can`t afford to run to Wyoming, or Pennsylvania, Indiana, to spend well over a 100 bucks to ride behind these engines that are still running, and the kids have no clue about them. Plus they all have phones and every other electronic devise in front of their faces now. Off the soap box, like it did any good.