BRAKIEJohn,Sounds good in theory but,it doesn't explain the BB kits sitting on the shelf for years or how a train show dealer says he can't dump BB kits at 3/$10.00..How is it one shop in Mansfield still had the same BB locomotive kits in stock when I first visited his shop back in '94
Easy---no advertising on Athearns part of the kits and their affordability. No push on the side of Horizon to get them out the doors of the sellers. The drive to get more $$$ out of RTR than other bb's. Besides why bother selling kits if you can sell the exact same product, with better paint and wheelsets at a higher price than kit? We had some success at selling out the bb's up here--seen more LHS's with backorders for the dang things than you guys are--besides, the bb's did, in fact, comprise the meat and potatoes of many a hobby shop----at one time
Look at the wonderful redefining of phrases we are now seeing---Discontinued---used to mean no longer being made. period. Now, it means we may just repaint them and come out with a variation. For a short time frame. DCC ready---no standard here anymore----at least from what I've seen. All manner of things.
We may have to admit that at least some of what John says is true--like it or not, that being said I'm also pretty sure that some of this could be laid at the feet of the "instant gratification" philosophy we all are seeing out here---
Oh well---when the superdetailed RTR locomotives are at $900 to $1300 each--we'll still be buying them---out'n the credit cards---
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Coming back to Atheran's kits, a point almost always overlooked (not well known?) regarding the demise of the Athearn BB kits is that Horizon dramatically limited production of these in the last 12 to 24 months before their ultimate demise. For a time almost all items were out-of-stock and there were threads here and on other forums indicating folks could not locate anything, even among those kits listed as supposedly available. Little wonder that they reportedly weren't selling!
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John,Sounds good in theory but,it doesn't explain the BB kits sitting on the shelf for years or how a train show dealer says he can't dump BB kits at 3/$10.00..How is it one shop in Mansfield still had the same BB locomotive kits in stock when I first visited his shop back in '94? It doesn't explain the turn around that Athearn has with their monthly releases which usually sells out.For those that don't know or haven't any notice this hobby has changed...The BB kit era is kaput killed by modelers.Even Bowser has entered the RTR market as did Accurail with their AccuReady line.
I have no doubts those old BB kits wasn't selling all that well against the RTR market with the added on line discounts..
As I mention I had enough BB kit building and tweakingf over the years and now prefer the superior RTR line.
Think of this..Those crying over the demise of the BB kit may have been weeping bitter tears over the demise of Athearn if they(Athearn) didn't join the RTR market..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
There is a market for both. Some people will pay more if they perceive that it is worth more. Most manufacturers know that and pander to it. Do you really think there is a difference in quality between a Toyota and a Lexus? ... between a Chevrolet and a Cadillac? ... between a Ford and a Lincoln?
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
blownout cylinder BRAKIEYoho,The cold facts is the BB era has ended killed by modelers simply by not buying 'em..If Athearn hadn't gone RTR like the other manufacturers then I suspect it would have been farewell Athearn.The modelers set the RTR market and not the manufacturers.Even the RTR cars are superior to those old nasty BB kits that require a lot of tweaking to get the coupler at the correct height no problem with the RTR cars.I won't miss those BB kits at all..I had my fill of 'em over the last 55 years and 70% of the cars I own the former BB kit But Larry--itis precisely the issue of the ones that still want to buy kits being told that they are no longer part of the market! No one seriously thinks to spin off the kits to someone who might want to make a run at it---sure smaller numbers but come on--they still exist as part of the hobby----
BRAKIEYoho,The cold facts is the BB era has ended killed by modelers simply by not buying 'em..If Athearn hadn't gone RTR like the other manufacturers then I suspect it would have been farewell Athearn.The modelers set the RTR market and not the manufacturers.Even the RTR cars are superior to those old nasty BB kits that require a lot of tweaking to get the coupler at the correct height no problem with the RTR cars.I won't miss those BB kits at all..I had my fill of 'em over the last 55 years and 70% of the cars I own the former BB kit
But Larry--itis precisely the issue of the ones that still want to buy kits being told that they are no longer part of the market! No one seriously thinks to spin off the kits to someone who might want to make a run at it---sure smaller numbers but come on--they still exist as part of the hobby----
Ah, but the point is that the manufacturers of RTR will never be willing to spin off those kit's dies to anyone else, because their re-introduction could undercut sales of the RTR of the original owners.
Likewise, a new start-up from scratch for kit manufacturing today, in a marketplace where you can get two, or three, times the kit price for the model in RTR form, would be a foolish approach in the eyes of any financial backers and unlikely to gain support. This is re-enforced by the appearance of a couple of brand new, high-end, RTR rollingstock companies recently.
CNJ831
First off, the number of plastic rollingstock "kits" available is and has been, quite limited for several years now, inspite of what some are claiming. The Accurail line, while listing a very broad range of road names for any of their given cars, has only had one or two of the listed roadnames per car actually available over long periods.
Bowser's kits are nearly all of PRR prototypes and are not particularly applicable to most other roads. In addition, the wood and resin craftsman kits that are out there are largely beyond the construction capabilities of today's average hobbyist (at least in regard to finishing them out to equal the plastic models). This pretty much leaves Branchline as the only other major kit producer and not all of their kits seem to be in production at any given time.
Following that situation, the actual decision to eliminate the BB line was made by a four-man panel. Two were Horizon personnel and two others Athearn reps. However, only one of the Athearn personnel was actually a modeler railroader and he had not independently researched the actual field situation! There is little question that the move to RTR-only on Horizon's part was economic in nature, in the sense that there was more profit to be made selling RTR than in selling the undercutting kits. Likewise, offering the RTR as "limited run" forced sales, whereas kits sold more slowly over extended periods. To my knowledge, absolutely no one has yet demonstrated in any way that demand for RTR cars out ranks that for kits, then or now. Rather, this has simply become the standard assumption among hobbyists.
I'll close with a prediction that many will not like, but is the logical next step considering what has occurred in the industry so far this decade. Within the next three years the only sort of locomotives available in the marketplace will be dual-mode DC/DCC, with sound and smoke (in the case of steamers). The less expensive DC, or DCC without the "extras", will be discontinued. Of couse, this will mean that all locomotives will be priced at the high end of their current manufacturers' ranges.
(p.s. Please excuse the paragraph structure in the above. The system appears to be sick this morning and re-editing doesn't help!)
HI!
I would much rather have the kits than the RTR. And yes, I would much prefer they were made in the USofA. And, I would pay the "premium" too!
As I model the transition era (atsf & ic), I believe I have pretty much all the rolling stock that I would want, as most all cars of that era have been produced.
Diesel locos for that era (for the ATSF & IC) have pretty much all been produced as well, and I have what I want and don't know of any I would want that I don't already have.
Steamers are a mixed bag, and there are still some for the two roads that I would buy if they came out (attention BLI !!!!), but they would have to be "road specific" and not some more of those generic USRA locos with ATSF plastered on the side. Ooops, sorry to go down that rabbit trail...........
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
ATLANTIC CENTRAL BRAKIE I still think the paint jobs killed BB once people saw the new stuff. Sheldon -------------------- Sheldon,poor paint,thick paint,warp frames,warp floors help kill the BB kit..As you know some kits was a bear getting the #5 coupler at the correct height...I haven't had that problem with the RTR cars and locomotives. Shoot I was raised on a diet of BB kits and preferred them over the Roundhouse kits but,as I mention it didn't take long for me to see the RTR cars was superior to their BB counter parts starting with the crispier painting and finer lettering.. Again, I agree fully about the paint jobs, but I never had any of those other problems - again it is likely specific to particular models - not the whole line - but I sold the suff for decades, my customers never complained of those problems either. I will let you know when I finish building the the 40-50 BB kits still sitting on my workshop shelves. Sheldon
BRAKIE I still think the paint jobs killed BB once people saw the new stuff. Sheldon -------------------- Sheldon,poor paint,thick paint,warp frames,warp floors help kill the BB kit..As you know some kits was a bear getting the #5 coupler at the correct height...I haven't had that problem with the RTR cars and locomotives. Shoot I was raised on a diet of BB kits and preferred them over the Roundhouse kits but,as I mention it didn't take long for me to see the RTR cars was superior to their BB counter parts starting with the crispier painting and finer lettering..
I still think the paint jobs killed BB once people saw the new stuff.
Sheldon
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Sheldon,poor paint,thick paint,warp frames,warp floors help kill the BB kit..As you know some kits was a bear getting the #5 coupler at the correct height...I haven't had that problem with the RTR cars and locomotives.
Shoot I was raised on a diet of BB kits and preferred them over the Roundhouse kits but,as I mention it didn't take long for me to see the RTR cars was superior to their BB counter parts starting with the crispier painting and finer lettering..
Again, I agree fully about the paint jobs, but I never had any of those other problems - again it is likely specific to particular models - not the whole line - but I sold the suff for decades, my customers never complained of those problems either.
I will let you know when I finish building the the 40-50 BB kits still sitting on my workshop shelves.
Sheldon,The warp frames was mostly 50' "Railbox" cars,some 50' gons and reefers and I seen 89' flat cars that was badly bowed..I seen 40'boxcars with warp frames.Some cars required 2 washers on one end to bring the coupler up to the correct height but,2 washers was rare.
Of course your customers didn't complain-we took it in stride and did the required tweaking.LOL! Times has changed since then.
BTW..There are several newly tooled cars in the RTR line and some of those older cars are heavly upgraded..
Well, they could do that then sell the extra molds off to offset those costs as well. I think that if some of the larger corporations in the electronics industry could spin off companies---with their own inventories, all built through the larger corp--- then there should be some space in ones cranium for that to happen here--
I think it all comes down to just how you envisage your company---I think that if you made the rules for your company you can also change the picture as well. It is kind of funny that the kit market dried up so much that there is, outside of the craftsmans building kits and the few little home based firms doing it, now the idea that no one else is doing kits anymore.
I think that it is, in a way, Equine Plumage to suggest that it is no longer done----seems to be a lot more scratchbuilding going on---could it be------?
BRAKIE Yoho wrote: And I can't imagine why you would pick on the Athearn BB GP38-2. That's was one of Athearns 1980s BB and is itself a thing of beauty. With the semi-see through fans, correct hood, hidden clips holding the shell on. The upgraded drive and MAYBE plastic railings are the biggest improvements and neither is a function of it being RTR. ----------------------------------- You forgot to add the metal grab irons and that improves the GP38-2 and GP40-2..I have both the RTR and BB kit GP38-2/40-2 locomotives and the RTR out shines their plain jane BB counter parts.There's no real comparison..Even the performance is superior.
Yoho wrote:
And I can't imagine why you would pick on the Athearn BB GP38-2. That's was one of Athearns 1980s BB and is itself a thing of beauty. With the semi-see through fans, correct hood, hidden clips holding the shell on. The upgraded drive and MAYBE plastic railings are the biggest improvements and neither is a function of it being RTR.
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You forgot to add the metal grab irons and that improves the GP38-2 and GP40-2..I have both the RTR and BB kit GP38-2/40-2 locomotives and the RTR out shines their plain jane BB counter parts.There's no real comparison..Even the performance is superior.
Larry, it is easy to single out the few products with dramatic up grades, but fact remains most of the Ready to Roll line is 20 to 40 year old tooling with better paint and few better detail parts.
Example - the locos you mentioned are newer and better partly because their prototypes are newer and they came out later - and yes, then they did upgrade them even more. I don't model that era, those items are of no interest to me. The 40' box cars and 50' piggyback cars are unchanged from decades ago, they are in my era.
Sheldon,Add poor paint,thick paint,warp frames,warp floors that help kill the BB kit..As you know some kits was a bear getting the #5 coupler at the correct height...I haven't had that problem with the RTR cars and locomotives.
blownout cylinderHere is the thing---why not spin the dang thing--the bb kits off the main body of the company then? Give it to some guy who wants to make a go of the kit market himself--and sure, the kits were never really updated because they just did not wanna spend the sheckels on upgrades but they were still there---they were AFFORDABLE and you could get a fair sized fleet going without taking a piece of your neck and giving it to the company.
How can they do that? They are using the tooling to make the Ready to Roll products. Make more copies of the tooling?
Barry, having worked in a hobby shop for many years, I have seen up close every Athearn and MDC item - I could do an item by item accounting, but it would take hours. Trust me the current Ready to Roll line is largely the same tooling Athearn and MDC have used for years - Again, yes, with some minor upgrades to some pieces, and the new metal wheels in the same trucks. And, yes, with some newer MDC pieces replacing some Athearn pieces - but they are largely the same stuff once sold as kits.
Back in the day, fact is Athearn and MDC did tooling work for each other. That is why there was very little overlap in their product lines, those two guys were friends in the same business.
I do think they should continue to offer undecorated versions which they seem to be doing with some items but the market does not seem to want simple kits as much as you and I think they are a good idea,
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Yoho wrote:Any time a company tells you they're dropping something because the market has moved on, you 're bullpockey detector should be squawking. -------------------------------
Think so? When I see the same BB kits set on the shelf for 10 years while the RTR flies off the shelf that's facts.A lot of those BB kits is still sitting there and will more then likely be sitting there next year.
Allow me to ask you this..
How many BB kits did you buy over the last 5 years? I haven't bought one since 2005 and I was buying very few before that.Maybe 1-2 a year since I started buying RTR in 2003? It didn't take long for me to see the RTR was superior to the BB in several ways.
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Yoho wrote:The problem with BB kits is that the did not add new cars. I think the newest freight car I could buy in a BB kit were the ATSF fuel Foiler TOFC spines from the late 70s early 80s. It is completely unfair and foolish to judge them against other vendors who were adding new types of cars to the catalog.
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Ever think the sales of the BB kits was slow and they didn't have the per capitol to improve their product line? Something was amiss because after the Horizon bought Athearn, Athearn been releasing cars and locomotives every month and introduce several newly tooled cars and locomotives and upgraded several of their better locomotives and in general hasn't look back..
I'm no businessman but,seeing this turn around tells me the BB kits may not have been doing all that well like Athearn has stated several times and just maybe that's why my "bullpockey detector" didn't squawk
YoHo is correct, most of the current Ready to Roll items are the same tooling Athearn and MDC were using for decades.
Yes, some of the items have been improved and some of the tooling is newer, but talking about some of the newest pieces does not change the fact that most of it is the same stuff, with minor up grades and better paint, that Athearn and MDC have made since I was a teen, some 40 years ago.
The current RTR 40' box car is the MDC piece from about 20 years ago, it was a little better than the Athearn piece from 50 years ago.
The various flat cars are all the same (40', 50', all with various loads - piggyback vans, airplanes, boats) back to the early 60's.
The older style tank cars are all the same.
The 50' outside braced plug door box - I bought my first one in 1969.
The Northeast caboose - an old MDC piece now with window glass, better handrails and a new plastic underframe.
This issue of how old or new the Athearn tooling is, is largely a factor of what era you model and which products you buy.
But very few of the Ready to Roll line models, if any, represent completely new tooling.
And that is fine with me because I felt they were satisfactory models back then, and they still are today.
I have bought dozens of the new RTR 50' flats with 2 vans, they are EXACTLY the same tooling as the dozens of Blue box versions I have. The new ones just have better paint jobs and metal wheels.
40 years of BB and MDC kits, I never had any major problems with coupler height.
As for the inflation calculator, to me it is only partly valid. As I said earlier, use 1968 prices and you get a completely different result. AND, we can assume Athearn and MDC were still paying for lots of tooling in 1968.
Seems we have two extremes here, those who now want high detail and those who want easy handling and low cost.
I looked at a lot of prices on the ends of a lot of boxes last night, old and new.
Athearn BB passengers cars - $3.98
Athearn BB box car - $1.98
Yellow box F7 dummy kit - 98 cents!
Most of my current stuff (last 10 years or so) $12-$15
BRAKIE blownout cylinder BRAKIEYoho,The cold facts is the BB era has ended killed by modelers simply by not buying 'em..If Athearn hadn't gone RTR like the other manufacturers then I suspect it would have been farewell Athearn.The modelers set the RTR market and not the manufacturers.Even the RTR cars are superior to those old nasty BB kits that require a lot of tweaking to get the coupler at the correct height no problem with the RTR cars.I won't miss those BB kits at all..I had my fill of 'em over the last 55 years and 70% of the cars I own the former BB kit But Larry--itis precisely the issue of the ones that still want to buy kits being told that they are no longer part of the market! No one seriously thinks to spin off the kits to someone who might want to make a run at it---sure smaller numbers but come on--they still exist as part of the hobby---- Barry,That is true but,when the bottom dropped out of the BB kit market what was Athearn to do? Go bankrupt? I am sure Horizon invested a heavy sum of cash to get Athearn where its at today.
Barry,That is true but,when the bottom dropped out of the BB kit market what was Athearn to do? Go bankrupt? I am sure Horizon invested a heavy sum of cash to get Athearn where its at today.
Here is the thing---why not spin the dang thing--the bb kits off the main body of the company then? Give it to some guy who wants to make a go of the kit market himself--and sure, the kits were never really updated because they just did not wanna spend the sheckels on upgrades but they were still there---they were AFFORDABLE and you could get a fair sized fleet going without taking a piece of your neck and giving it to the company.
Many companies in the electronics industry have spun off smaller segments of themselves and have done quite well doing that---why cannot here? All we see here is discontinue the line and KEEP the old molds around----for what? If they are toasty then give them away---sheeesh
Look, Go pull an Athearn RTR boxcar kit and look at it next to the RTR version of it. The molds haven't changed.
The amount of money it would take to make new molds is insane. Athearn just took the best of the RDC/Roundhouse and their own molds and made minor upgrades and better paint.
And last I checked, Athearn's coupler pockets were almost always at the right height unmodified.
The problem with BB kits is that the did not add new cars. I think the newest freight car I could buy in a BB kit were the ATSF fuel Foiler TOFC spines from the late 70s early 80s. It is completely unfair and foolish to judge them against other vendors who were adding new types of cars to the catalog.
The facts of the matter are quite simply, it became impossible for Athearn to build their models in California anymore and when they moved to china, the cost to Athearn to produce the kit versus the Ready to Run model was essentially 0. So they dropped the kit. They knew they could charge a slight premium for RTR and so it was win win.
They let blue box die without a fight and then blamed it on "market forces."
Any time a company tells you they're dropping something because the market has moved on, you 're bullpockey detector should be sqwaking.
As far as BB kits, they never were acceptable for me, my low end kits were MDC, the ones that had individual grabs. I would get better grabs than the staples that came with and add better stirrups, add a better break wheal and they looked pretty good!
Here's another thought..Some of those dies are getting old and I wonder if the cost of replacing them was festable? Even Atlas dropped their GP7 because the dies was worn out..We seen the demise of the old Penn-Line and Varney kits..We seen the demise of the old Hobbytown kits when Bear Locomotive cease production.
The current hobby is what I call "I want it 2 hours ago model railroading"..Look over some of the topics on the Atlas forum asking when this or that will arrive?
At the Bucyrus Train Show there was still a lot of BB kits-one dealer told me he had those kits for months and even tried to sell them 3/$10.00 at several shows.
So,as sad as it is it appears the majority spoke with their wallets and it wasn't in favor of the BB kits.
I started building BB kits when I was seven..I stopped in 2006 and haven't looked back.
But Barry, kits still are available. Not perhaps the generic one size fits all road names BB kits, but kits nonetheless survive.
'Course, the ones that kvetch about the cost of RTR in the $25-30 per car range will soil their shorts at the price of an AMB Laser Kit SP C30-1 caboose at $46.95 (less trucks and couplers of course). AMB has a nice selection of caboose kits for variouls protoypes. Naturally, by the time you add trucks and couplers, the total will be well over $50.
Bethlehem Car Works has a nice selection of Eastern prototype passenger car kits (less trucks and couplers) for prices ranging from about $30 to about $75. The Athearn RTR generics are starting to look like a screaming bargain at only about $17 (MSRP).
And you notice, it's always the ***'s who scream about RTR. N scale's been pretty much RTR from the get-go although N kits can be had. You can now buy kits like the TrainCat SP C40-3 caboose (less trucks and couplers) for 44.50. It's brass, even. You can also buy a kit for a 7500 cu ft Gunderson woodchip car (for $62.50). They make other stuff, too, and there are other kit manufacturers to be found in all scales. I just ain't doing anyone's homework for them.
There was a time you could buy a car for less that $2,000. Radio and heater were options, it had a 3 speed column mounted transmission, rubber llour mats instead of wall to wall carpet and a 6 cylinder engine underpowered by modern standards, The only air conditioning to be had was by lowering the hand cranked windows. People keep saying they want the model railroad equipment equivalent of those old cars, but the truth is, neither will sell despite all the protestations to the contrary. BTW, it's becoming extremely hard to find a new car with a manual transmission anymore and even harder to find people who actually know how to shift for themselves.
Incidentally the companies listed above make stuff right here in North America, not China. I keep hearing anti-Chinese noises, but I don't see those American manufacturers undertaking vast increases in production because the kvetchers have decided to keep their money on this side of the Pacific.
Andre
Yoho wrote:And yet how many of the RTR series use the same molds? The Blue Box line dropped sales because nothing new was brought out in it. limited new designs, limited new road numbers and their were stacks of them not selling. Athearn did a bad job of keeping those kits fresh. They went to RTR overseas instead.
Also, I humbly present the Inflation calculator http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
For those of you pounding your fist about how much you will or won't spend, It might be interesting.
a $15 freight car today would have cost $9.25 in 1990 (which is the year I personally base my inner hobby pricing on) A $25 car would have been $15. So really, the price of cars hasn't risen all that much except for inflation. All product costs have gone up with inflation, not just model products.
Now, locomotives, those prices have increased a little more than the rate of inflation, especially if you're talking Athearn RTR style.
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Yoho,The cold facts is the BB era has ended killed by modelers simply by not buying 'em..If Athearn hadn't gone RTR like the other manufacturers then I suspect it would have been farewell Athearn.The modelers set the RTR market and not the manufacturers.Even the RTR cars are superior to those old nasty BB kits that require a lot of tweaking to get the coupler at the correct height no problem with the RTR cars.I won't miss those BB kits at all..I had my fill of 'em over the last 55 years and 70% of the cars I own the former BB kit.
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Exactly which ones are you talking about? Even the RTR GP38-2 is superior to its BB counter part..I would call that a improvement...The upgraded SW1500 is a thing of pure beauty and surpasses its BB counterpart.
I humbly hand the Inflation calculator back to you because I don't use 'em nor do I compare prices of a bygone era with today's.
PRRT1MAN I would pay more for a USA made anything! I actually look at products before I buy just to check. We all need to do our part to keep people working in the USA. If not we will soon be slaves to another country. This goes even for trains. I always would buy Bowser but now they are over the pond too. We can make a difference in the economy 1 purchase at a time! Remeber that the next time you pick up something to buy.
I would pay more for a USA made anything! I actually look at products before I buy just to check. We all need to do our part to keep people working in the USA. If not we will soon be slaves to another country. This goes even for trains. I always would buy Bowser but now they are over the pond too. We can make a difference in the economy 1 purchase at a time! Remeber that the next time you pick up something to buy.
HaroldATo me, this thread gets at another issue - is model railroading pricing itself out of the reach of some people? Granted there are various levels of product but are people getting turned off because of price?
This reminds me of a saying: "how do you eat an elephant....one bite at a time." What I mean by this is that manufacturers are slowly taking us to the maximum we are willing to pay for whatever they offer. Even if the models we see have exquisite detail, are they really worth the $25+ price? Maybe, maybe not; but a lot here, myself included, won't pay over a certain price for an item. I know I won't pay $30 MSRP or more for a RTR model if I can find a better deal online, at auction or train show. Once the group (a vast majority of MR's) finally get to the point that we stop buying and manufacturers feel the loss of revenue, maybe then they will stop eating at us "one bite at a time". I wonder at what price that's going to be at? Could be $40, $60....some RTR's are already there, but I guess that we'll just have to wait and see.
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
I'm going to agree with the majority here and say that I do NOT pay >$25 for a RTR freight car. Where it's made doesn't concern me as much as maybe it should. I want a quality item (good trucks, proper weight, and good couplers) but I'm not so big on incredible detail. First, most of it is stuck on the underside of the car and second, alot of those fragile details that are on the top and sides get broken off with handling. I prefer the basic detailing of the Athearn BB and MDC/Roundhouse kits. Accurail is quickly becoming my favorite.
If RTR at $30+ becomes the standard, I will be on eBay swooping up old BB kits left and right.
As far as kits with great detail at resonable prices go, I do build a bunch of Tichey cars. I have close to 30 of their tank car done in a Sinclair scheme.
I wouldn't pay $25 for any freight car - right now if I run across some of the Athearn BB kits I am snatching them up providing they work for my RR. I will also look at Ebay or buy kits - but to spend that kind of money isn't in my plan.
To me, this thread gets at another issue - is model railroading pricing itself out of the reach of some people? Granted there are various levels of product but are people getting turned off because of price? I have a limit on how much I will spend on any given item and when I see prices that exceed that limit, I put the item back on the shelf. Sure, I could lay it away, or internet shop, but I like to eat and drink good wine.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
YoHo1975And yet how many of the RTR series use the same molds? The Blue Box line dropped sales because nothing new was brought out in it. limited new designs, limited new road numbers and their were stacks of them not selling. Athearn did a bad job of keeping those kits fresh. They went to RTR overseas instead. Also, I humbly present the Inflation calculator http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ For those of you pounding your fist about how much you will or won't spend, It might be interesting. a $15 freight car today would have cost $9.25 in 1990 (which is the year I personally base my inner hobby pricing on) A $25 car would have been $15. So really, the price of cars hasn't risen all that much except for inflation. All product costs have gone up with inflation, not just model products.
YoHo, I basicly agree with you about inflation, but I use 1968, the year I started buying blue box kits - most were about $2.
It was the government regulations regarding painting, etc, which helped limit the state side advancement of the Athearn line, kit or RTR. In China they still understand that MANUFACTURING involves chemicals and machines - an idea lost on the Calf. government.
Going overseas allowed them to invest in new paint processes, better lettering, etc, at a cost that would still keep them in the market. It just so happens they can also assemble the darn thing while they are at it for the same price.
BRAKIEYoHo1975From what I understand in talking with others. The reason Athearn shut down the blue box line was because California made it impossible for them to produce it profitably and once they began producing overseas-snip Also according to Athearn it was the lack of BB sales that doomed these kits. Today's market shifted to RTR and I fear the kit era will end..
YoHo1975From what I understand in talking with others. The reason Athearn shut down the blue box line was because California made it impossible for them to produce it profitably and once they began producing overseas-snip
Also according to Athearn it was the lack of BB sales that doomed these kits.
Today's market shifted to RTR and I fear the kit era will end..
No way I am spending $25 for any car. I will buy used at eBay or flea market first. Second choice is to buy a kit. Third choice is scratch build.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.