UP 4-12-2Machinists and others with the skills and talent to produce such accurate scale models as most people want to buy are not cheap in the U.S. There is NO "cost effective" way to do the tool and die making in the U.S. If there were, trust me, companies like Bowser would still be doing it here. They did for a long, long time, and they did reach out across the U.S. to folks who did that kind of work.
Maybe we should then be like China and work for pennies on the dollar then
Look. It ain't rocket science when you go and have someone who is more interested in doing this than someone who is more into feeding their family. There has to be another reason why the guy would want to do this stuff other than making the $$$$$ all the time. We have created a $$$$ oriented culture here that is slowly strangling your country----
The aftermarket for the auto sector for example---look at the body panels that are being made---are they making them in China? No. Yet we seem to think that the ONLY way thing can be made is in China---your number 1 sector is still manufacturing guys---
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
blownout cylinder It may be that there is no imagination on the side of some mfg's to look into more cost effective ways of tool and die making for those molds...
It may be that there is no imagination on the side of some mfg's to look into more cost effective ways of tool and die making for those molds...
More cost effective ways of tool and die making for those molds? In the U.S.? You gotta be kidding me.
Machinists and others with the skills and talent to produce such accurate scale models as most people want to buy are not cheap in the U.S. There is NO "cost effective" way to do the tool and die making in the U.S. If there were, trust me, companies like Bowser would still be doing it here. They did for a long, long time, and they did reach out across the U.S. to folks who did that kind of work.
It is actually way cheaper to send the information package including detailed photographs and drawings to China. They then send you a pilot model--that's pretty darn good.
No dealing with eccentric but talented Americans who are hard to pin down to a deadline, etc. No hassles.
John
IRONROOSTER Fascinating how we keep rehashing the same old topics in this thread. My observations are: Most people don't want kits they want RTR. They only buy kits because that's all that's available or they are on a very tight budget.
Fascinating how we keep rehashing the same old topics in this thread.
My observations are:
Most people don't want kits they want RTR. They only buy kits because that's all that's available or they are on a very tight budget.
Paul, on just what "observations" do you base your conclusion? Reviewing the replies made by posters to this thread, those actually responding with a clear preference and not just roundy-round arguments, turns out by my count to be 16 in favor of kits, as opposed to 5 favoring RTR.
CNJ831
IRONROOSTERMost people don't want kits they want RTR. They only buy kits because that's all that's available or they are on a very tight budget.
And, if you are on a tight budget, any company that discontinues an affordable kit will take that modeller out of the market. Lets face it. Anyone who is on that tight budget will have to buy from resellers at trainshows---if the prices don't go sky rocketing because of scarcity of that model. A good thing Accurail is still around---as is Exactrail----
IRONROOSTERHow much you pay for things is based on your cash available and your desire for the item
That is, IF the dang thing even is around-----
Fred,You're basicaly saying the same thing Athearn did-the BB kits was not up to today's standards.I agree..However,they took these kits dress them up,addded metal wheels and the darn things sell.Of course some was retooled.
What I don't understand is the influx of shortline names from Athearn and Atlas/Trainman.
As far as shake the box kits I wonder why Accurail doesn't fell that need since they are readily available?
Again you are correct even us good enoughers wouldn't buy cars that doesn't fill our needs..
BTW..One didn't have to be a "serious" modeler to switch out the X2F for KDs.That was a given and at one time the BB and MDC/Roundhouse kits was the modeler's top choice.Today these modelers-including the so called "serious" modeler are still buying 'em...
As I mention ExactRail has 3 production class of cars that sell at 3 different price levels so,it appears they are trying to keep their cars affordable for everybody.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
If you like to build models, there are plenty of parts available. You can "make" your own kit.
There's plenty of building required to get a layout up and going even if you use a lot of RTR. If you want a large layout lots of RTR is mandatory if you want it running in a reasonable amount of time.
How much you pay for things is based on your cash available and your desire for the item.
Enjoy
Paul
YoHo1975I would point out that the difference between what is available in kits now versus what MDC and Athearn provided is the difference between a craftsman kit and a Shake the box kit. What's people are generally fussing about is the lack of Shake the box kits. A very different beast.
I would point out that the difference between what is available in kits now versus what MDC and Athearn provided is the difference between a craftsman kit and a Shake the box kit. What's people are generally fussing about is the lack of Shake the box kits. A very different beast.
What differences are we really looking at between Athearn and MDC and Mantua kits on one hand, and Tichy and Westerfield and Labelle kits on the other hand?
Shake the box kits represented a level of value that is at least perceived to have left the hobby. Personally, I think that's more true in Locos than freight cars, but still. I don't think it's the fact that they were kits, (well there was some pleasure in putting them together) but that they were a huge bang for the buck.
Correct. So are the 99 cent/car train set break-ups at AHC. Interesting that both the shake the box old stock kits and the train set break-ups don't sell at the LHS or at train shows unless it's a popular road name. The unwanted road names sit on the shelves at my LHS, and I see the same boxes at train show after train show. Meanwhile, the more popular road names get snapped up at a premium on eBay.
On my eBay auctions for the past several years of new-in-the box Athearn BB and Roundhouse car kits, road names like PRR and NYC and Conrail brought at least twice as high a final price as the Genesee & Wyoming. Didn't matter whether there actual prototypes for the models or not. For the more obscure road names, I had to add metal trucks and Kadee couplers just to attract bids starting at $1.99.
The "bottom-feeding" portion of the hobby that buys BB and similar is a lot more picky than most posters seem to think. As one of them, I know. If you have a small hobby budget, it doesn't make sense to buy a generic, shake-the-box car kit that you have to strip and repaint as well as replace trucks and couplers to make usable on your layout. Not when the same generic kit is available prepainted in a road name you want with a little searching.
With decals and decal information harder to come by than in the past, and this group being the least likely to own an airbrush, avoiding schemes and road names that don't fit comes naturally.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Also as to not purchasing Bachmann. Um, Bachmann has been owned by Kader since the 1980s and as of today 2010. Kader is the contract manufacturer for most if not all the model makers out there. So really, every single car you buy no matter what it says on the box is made by the same company.
I have to agree with Andre, the whole kit thing is a red herring. If you want to buy kits, they are still available in HO. Not from big names like Atlas, Athearn, and Bowser, but from plenty of small manufacturers. Yes, most of these are not plastic - they are resin and wood. Why? Because resin or wood kits don't involve 5 or 6 figures up front for tooling. And resin or wood is suitable for small batch production - which is all the manufacturer is likely to sell. My bet is that very few of the small manufacturers of car kits sell more than 100 of a given kit in a year - that's how small the kit market really is.
And these small manufacturers don't advertise much in Model Railroader. Why? Because MR believes in encouraging new entrants (and new customers for the big advertisers) to the hobby through easy-to-use RTR.
For the more advanced model railroader, the kits are available. And the kits are easier to modify than plastic RTR. But they still don't sell in large numbers.
Back to the money issue. I guess I'm one of the stupid ones. I have paid $35-$40 for a couple of Micro-Trains and Blackstone HOn3 plastic RTR cars. I did it for the convenience of having something for my HOn3 locomotives to pull while I was building some car kits or laying some track. That has been my approach to the hobby. Buy just enough manufactured track, 1 RTR locomotive, and a few cars (in both HO and HOn3) so that I can set up a basic oval with a spur or two while I am building the dream layout and roster.
Like most of you, I lust after brass or premium plastic locomotives, but have a hard time with the cost. But now I am reconciled to saving for that one special locomotive that exactly matches my layout's needs. That's the only way I can justify that kind of money - to buy just one that will see heavy use. I still can't see paying $300+ for a locomotive isn't what I really, really want. And since it's almost always just me, buying more than one premium locomotive doesn't make sense.
....modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it's always 1900....
These guys did their own tooling and such from older dies and such as well---
Shows what can be done nowadays---without necessarily busting the bank---
That's all well and good, Barry, but this is rather specialized stuff. Athearn BB relative to the HO market was "mass" (relatively) produced stuff. If Model Power brought out the old Mantua line as kits instead of or in additiont to RTR, how many people do you think would be buying the kits? For that matter, except as kitbash fodder, who wants a Mantua Pacific except as kitbash fodder (which raises the cost ante considerably by the time you're done)..
In any case, you can still get Silver Streak kits from Ye Olde Huff and Puff and Suydam kits are available from Alpine. A Silver Streak caboose that cost you $3.25 40-50 years ago, however, will cost you $26 today. Just because it's old tooling (updated or otherwise) doesn't guarantee low price. In any case, the AMB kit based on the same prototype (SP C30-1) that costs a lot more is a better choice because it's far more accurate.
Don't get me wrong,. I'm not against kits, just against regarding the past with rose colored glasses.
Or would that be blinders.?
Andre
In my heart of hearts I will always buy American if I can, call it what you will but when you've had a job pulled out from under you along with 300 of your fellow coworkers because some bean counter said it was more cost effective to the bottom line to move the entire operation over to India the words foreign made tend to leave a bad taste in your mouth. That being said in true reality our country has gone so far to one side it's completely disgusting to see just about everything you pick up made in China or some place else. Heck even a lot of the food sold in grocery stores comes form countries other then the US. If you don't believe me take a trip with your wife to the super market the next time she goes shopping and check out the produce isle.
You can say what you want but good manufactured in China are generally substandard and inferior take for example in our hobby Bachmann trains. Yes some of you have had good if not great luck with them but when a company has a policy that if you send it back because of a problem they almost inevitably send you a new one. What does that say about pride in workmanship and quality control. What ever happen to repair instead of replace. Unfortunately back in the real world if we want any decent amount of rolling stock, locomotives, structure kits etc. on our layout we really aren't left with much of a choice but to buy good manufactured in any country other then the US. On the flip side of the coin there aren't too many of us who don't covet brass locomotives. I didn't say own or could afford to own but lets all be honest we're like Pavlov's dogs when it comes to brass show us one and we instantly start to drool. Where are the bulk of them made, well the older more coveted higher quality models are/were made in Japan and most of the newer still relatively high price models are made in Korea. I don't believe there are too many of us who wouldn't want any of them regardless of where they are made. I have a Trix Big boy a nice foreign made locomotive but it still took my American dollars to buy it and it is a high quality piece worth the prices they fetch.
Thats the whole thing in a nutshell is that $25-$35 ready to run car regardless of where it's made worth it, only you can answer that. I visited a rather large layout where the owner had nothing but top quality everything. All NCE radio throttle must have been 10 or12 sitting in pockets around the layout, All high quality rolling stock I would say 90% of the freight cars were brass and all of the passenger equipment was brass and so on and so on. This guy had more tied up in his layout then my house cost.......lol but he could afford it so it's all relative.
Me I shop on the bargain or sale table, walk till my feet feel like they are going to bust out of my shoes at train shows just to find "a deal" because I can't afford to pay the prices that some of these manufacturers are asking no matter how well it's made or how detailed it is etc. So what if I got a great deal on some ready to run rolling stock when I can't afford to put food on the table or gas in my truck. It's all where your priority's are.
andrechapelonHow would they do that, Barry? If you're re-tooling an item because your old tooling is wearing out, what good is worn out tooling to some upstart new manufacturer? And why invest in obsolete tooling if the tooling is still physically adequate but not up tp current standards? Suppose GM had the original tooling in good shape for making 1957 Chevies? Who would be dumb enough to buy that tooling and manufacture a '57 Chevy in 2010, even as a kit?
You'd be surprised at that--check out the sites here--
www.carsinc.com
www.dynacornclassicbodies.com
www.experi-metal.com
www.goodmarkindustries.com
www.yearone.com
My primary crab was more involved in getting ppl into thinking that one can spin off some of this stuff and continue making the dang kits for the poor H O scale guys---who are still, after all, part of a market. At least that was what I thought they were
How would they do that, Barry? If you're re-tooling an item because your old tooling is wearing out, what good is worn out tooling to some upstart new manufacturer? And why invest in obsolete tooling if the tooling is still physically adequate but not up tp current standards? Suppose GM had the original tooling in good shape for making 1957 Chevies? Who would be dumb enough to buy that tooling and manufacture a '57 Chevy in 2010, even as a kit?
. The issue's never been one about kits vs. RTR anyway. It's been about money. The first Athearn kit I ever bought was a Lackawanna box car I purchased in 1957/ Assuming the identical car was available today completely unchanged from the 1957 version and it was priced consistent with inflation, it would retail for $10 (it was $1.29 in '57). Change the horn hooks to McHenry's and the wheels to metal and you're probably looking at $12. If Athearn tried to retail that kit at $12, there'd still be the unholy wailing and gnashing of teeth.
People want kits? Here's a link to Intermountain's HO kit page. http://www.imrcmodels.com/ho/hokit.htm Notice the prices? Most of these are undecs. Paint and decals will up the price. And here's the link to Intermountain's N scale kit page. http://www.imrcmodels.com/n/nkit.htm It's not about kits. It's about the lust people just refuse to be honest about, the lust for cheap trains..
BTW, is anyone willing to pay $40 for that Centralia Shops undec Santa Fe caboose kit when Athearn will sell you a painted and lettered RTR version for less than half the price? The Athearn doesn't have as much detail, but even if it's not cheap, it is cheaper.
Like I said, it ain't about kits, it's about cheap.
BRAKIE BTW..There are several newly tooled cars in the RTR line and some of those older cars are heavly upgraded..
Very true, but there are also MANY that are EXACTLY the same except for the metal wheel sets and better paint jobs.
It truely is a item by item situation.
Sheldon
andrechapelon YoHo1975I'm sorry, do you two think that disproving my Hyperbole (and it was clearly hyperbole) has any relevance at all to this discussion? The point is that it is so inexpensive to assemble the kits in China that there is no significant cost savings in making them kits. No, actually, it wasn't clear you were being hyperbolic. I have no fundamental disagreement that the manufacturing cost difference between kits and RTR is relatively insignificant. Somebody's got to be paid to to make sure that the kits have the right parts in the right number in the right box or to assemble said parts into a unit. What I have is a major disagreement (with HO types primarily) that RTR (warning, hyperbole coming) is the source of all evil, is killing the hobby and is part of a vast conspiracy to make the manufacturers so filthy rich that they can afford a fleet of Gulfstream V's.
YoHo1975I'm sorry, do you two think that disproving my Hyperbole (and it was clearly hyperbole) has any relevance at all to this discussion? The point is that it is so inexpensive to assemble the kits in China that there is no significant cost savings in making them kits.
No, actually, it wasn't clear you were being hyperbolic.
I have no fundamental disagreement that the manufacturing cost difference between kits and RTR is relatively insignificant. Somebody's got to be paid to to make sure that the kits have the right parts in the right number in the right box or to assemble said parts into a unit. What I have is a major disagreement (with HO types primarily) that RTR (warning, hyperbole coming) is the source of all evil, is killing the hobby and is part of a vast conspiracy to make the manufacturers so filthy rich that they can afford a fleet of Gulfstream V's.
My aren't we being picular today--lol!
But really the issue may not be the vast conspiracy to deprive a whole segment of a market from getting its needs met. It may be that there is no imagination on the side of some mfg's to look into more cost effective ways of tool and die making for those molds---
andrechapelon Edit note to the power's that installed word nanny software H O e r 's is not a bad word, Well, maybe it is to rabid N scalers.
Edit note to the power's that installed word nanny software H O e r 's is not a bad word,
Well, maybe it is to rabid N scalers.
Hey! Leave us N scalers out of this----
As so many of those in HO forget, N scale has been RTR from the get go. If it's OK for N, why not for other scales? It doesn't stop people from doing things like this: http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?t=118362 . ( hope the pics show up as some sites require you to be signed in) or this: http://tinyurl.com/2965acs or this: http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/1204
Our very own Dave Vollmer hasn't let the lack of loco kits prevent him from doing work like this: http://www.thevollmerfamily.com/Pennsy/Roster/H10.jpg and this http://www.thevollmerfamily.com/Pennsy/Roster/M1.jpg
OK, I cheated and showed pics of locomotives, not cars. Same prinicipal applies.
'
Just an example of an items labor cost in a factory, at the Dabon factory in China a man gets $1.45 to wrap for shipping and install a bicycle seat, a small part of a full bike!
rrebell You obviously know nothing of wages in China, the lowest min. wage in China is 39cents an hour. Average monthly salary for a factory worker is $200+. In fact in some areas they actually have labor shortages because the factory workers who came from rural areas are returning there, very well off on their so called exploited wages.
You obviously know nothing of wages in China, the lowest min. wage in China is 39cents an hour. Average monthly salary for a factory worker is $200+. In fact in some areas they actually have labor shortages because the factory workers who came from rural areas are returning there, very well off on their so called exploited wages.
Lack of knowledge has never been a deterrent to the expression of opinion in any venue.
Besides, it feels SOOOOOO much better to claim that Chinese mothers almost have to pay for the privilege of assembling model trains.
Come to think of it, if they did have to pay for the privilege of assembling model trains, they wouldn't be factory workers, they'd be model railroaders.
And as for bowing, of course you don't have that problem with ready to run, because a mother in China gets paid $0.02 and hour to put it together for you and she rejects the ones that don't fit right.
What's your source for this assertion on this theoretical Chinese mother, or are you pulling that number out of thin air?
http://www.industryweek.com/articles/outsourcing_hedge_the_low-wage_wager_12125.aspx
http://tinyurl.com/2accprg
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/29/business/worldbusiness/29labor.html
http://www.theglobalguru.com/article.php?id=112
http://www.bicycleretailer.com/news/newsDetail/3978.html
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13511_3-9730762-22.html
Snippet from article linked right above: Government mandates also compel employers to kick in fringe benefits. Suntech, for instance, provides housing subsides, a free cafeteria and onsite medical.
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1842145_1842144_1842142,00.html
They ain't saints and wages aren't at Western levels yet (neither is the cost of living), but to proclaim $.02/hr is go beyond the bounds of hyperbole and into the realm of what Col. Sherman T. Potter of the late 4077th MASH referred to as "horsehockey".
Can I get what I want at any price?
Look, almost every financial decision that we make involves an allocation of resources; if ABC offers a model of the XYZ--my favorite road-- Class C 2-8-0 two issues immediately arise: firstly, can I afford the price being ask . . . . . . . . . . and, secondly, do I want to afford that price being ask. That particular price might, initially, appear to be exorbitant and I may well blanche at it and murmer "No Way, Jose!" but if I want it badly enough I will allocated the (financial) resources for its purchase even though that is going to mean that I will, of necessity, have to forego the purchase of something else which I might desire to buy.
If Yuban raises the price of their 2lb can of coffee one dollar and the price of the equal sized can of Maxwell House remains the same then I might just decide to purchase the Maxwell House even though that may not be what I would desire. I will not--keep in mind that this is only a rhetorical example--purchase that Yuban coffee at their newly offered price . . . . . . . . . . I will purchase that Yuban coffee at their newly offered price even though, to do so, will necessitate that I forego the purchase of pound of garlic baloney from the deli. I'm not going to make a blanket statement that I will never purchase a $25-$35 freight car as some here have because, if that's what it takes to get what I want--and if I absolutely positutely can't live without it--then I will most likely fork that amount out although to do so will necessitate foregoing the purchase of an equally desirous twenty dollar item.
. . . . . . . . . . allocation of our precious resources . . . . . . . . . .
I would very much like to see the "Made in USA" label on more items and I would, most likely, be willing to shell out more money if that's what it took to see. Now, if I can get the Powerball and/or MegaMillions to cooperate with me . . . . . . . . . .
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Well how many 40' box cars or 40' pickle cars does one modeler need. The problem with the blue box line is that NONE of their newly tooled releases were and are offered as kits. In fact the double and maxi stacks, and PS 5344 Box Cars were taken out of the kit line at the introduction of the RTR line. When they aquired MDC, the only MDC product that they ever released in the Blue Box line were some waffle boxes.
Lets face it the RTR would die too, if they stopped offering new paint schemes, different road numbers, and newly tooled models etc. They finally upgraded the kit line, near the end, too little too late, with metal wheels, I had no use for or too many of the particular cars that they offered, How many 50' sd box cars with the same number do i need. Granted the kits may not sell as much as RTR but Athearn could of put a little more effort into the blue box line instead of dumping it on a deserted island without food and water.
Another thing to note is that even if the kits sold well in the store, did they sell well online! At least were I live the local hobby shop is dead. There are a few holdouts but they have changed and as their selection gets smaller people tend not to go as often. I have noticed that hobby shops are very good at killing themselves off. A few examples, a friend called and asked if their was anything I needed from the hobby store as he was going right by there. I asked him to pick up some sheet styrene that I needed and (he has no hobby experience) asked the clerk and the clerk said no, that all they had was plastic! Another (now this is a real trains only hobby store with a vast selection), this person always hosted a swap meet in her parking lot and of course the line was to the back of the store inside. She notice someone who worked at another hobby store (40 miles away) selling stuff and accused him of selling for this other owner stuff he wanted to get rid of, now this guy is in the hobby so this was his stuff ( and the place he worked would rather give a bargain to their regulars anyway). So the owner decided to stop the swap meets.
A. It doesnt matter to me where its made as long as the price is Fair. The most ive paid for a RTR is 22 Dollars. I never like to spend more then 15 dollars for a RTR Car. Engines I'll go up to 125 Dollars for a RTR other than that i prefer any kit over a RTR because you can detail them much easier and the way you want better than a RTR.
When I read the original post I was a little shocked at the RTR car price listed. I assumed that people were actually dropping that kind of cash on a single piece of rolling stock. It appears from the replies that this is not so.
I, too, am not willing to pay that kind of money for any kind of car. Instead, I will scrounge hobby shops, flea markets, train shows, and dumpsters in search of used cars or old kits. The level of detail is not as important to me as cost savings achieved over all.
Perhaps manufacturers should take note of this thread?
The Cedar Branch & Western--The Hillbilly Line!
I fully appreciate your particular situation and that for you, RTR has proven a big help. I think that that is very fortunate in your case. But among the group of old-school model railroaders I deal with, who are still modeling/modifying virtually all their equipment rather than just pulling RTR cars out of boxes and plotting them down on the layout, RTR doesn't cut it and likely never will. For us, the hobby will always be about craftsmanship and creativity, not collecting, or simply playing with miniature trains.
John,I to am a old school modeler that just happens to like the RTR market.
Of course old line craftsmen like yourself will never want RTR and I can appreciate that..
However.
For old goats like me that would rather operate then build or spend hours detailing RTR is a blessing.
Barry wrote:
Easy---no advertising on Athearns part of the kits and their affordability. No push on the side of Horizon to get them out the doors of the sellers. The drive to get more $$$ out of RTR than other bb's. Besides why bother selling kits if you can sell the exact same product, with better paint and wheelsets at a higher price than kit? We had some success at selling out the bb's up here--seen more LHS's with backorders for the dang things than you guys are--besides, the bb's did, in fact, comprise the meat and potatoes of many a hobby shop----at one time
---------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting theory but,don't ya think the LHS may have played a hand? Think of it..The RTR was selling and the BB not so,shops begin stocking RTR while BS'ing their customers how BB kits wasn't available..
Then Athearn went to by order production and that failed to get the require number for a production run.
Again who really called the shots? We the modeler.We voted RTR was what we wanted with our wallets...
Could it be we the modeler played into the manufacturers hands and help drive up the prices with our demands of higher detailed locomotives and RTR cars? I think inadvertently we did.
BRAKIE Coming back to Atheran's kits, a point almost always overlooked (not well known?) regarding the demise of the Athearn BB kits is that Horizon dramatically limited production of these in the last 12 to 24 months before their ultimate demise. For a time almost all items were out-of-stock and there were threads here and on other forums indicating folks could not locate anything, even among those kits listed as supposedly available. Little wonder that they reportedly weren't selling! ------------------------- John,Sounds good in theory but,it doesn't explain the BB kits sitting on the shelf for years or how a train show dealer says he can't dump BB kits at 3/$10.00..How is it one shop in Mansfield still had the same BB locomotive kits in stock when I first visited his shop back in '94?
Coming back to Atheran's kits, a point almost always overlooked (not well known?) regarding the demise of the Athearn BB kits is that Horizon dramatically limited production of these in the last 12 to 24 months before their ultimate demise. For a time almost all items were out-of-stock and there were threads here and on other forums indicating folks could not locate anything, even among those kits listed as supposedly available. Little wonder that they reportedly weren't selling!
-------------------------
John,Sounds good in theory but,it doesn't explain the BB kits sitting on the shelf for years or how a train show dealer says he can't dump BB kits at 3/$10.00..How is it one shop in Mansfield still had the same BB locomotive kits in stock when I first visited his shop back in '94?
Larry, I'm sure you'll agree that BB kits sitting on shelves for ages is nothing new. It goes back as long as I can remember (to the 1950's anyway). Likewise, many roadnames in later years were often obscure. In a number for cases the cars were decorated for roads that never even had cars remotely resembling the models, or for second class RRs from a very different region from where the shop was located. These were, not surprisingly, quite often no-sales, but Athearn was producing so many other kits that these poor sellers didn't matter...so they just set. The last show I visit mainly had collections of the uncommon roadname cars up for sale and indeed, they weren't moving. However, appropriate older Athearn NYC, NH, B&A, et al. car kits are often completely unavailable at shows in my region because these were the area prototypes.
It doesn't explain the turn around that Athearn has with their monthly releases which usually sells out.For those that don't know or haven't any notice this hobby has changed...The BB kit era is kaput killed by modelers.Even Bowser has entered the RTR market as did Accurail with their AccuReady line.
As to the RTRs selling out right away, that's no surprise either. Runs are so small these days that it's become instilled in the minds' of hobbyists that they must buy right now, or miss out perhaps forever. That's concept is a world away from the way it was a decade and more ago when you bought something when you actually needed it.
I have no doubts those old BB kits wasn't selling all that well against the RTR market with the added on line discounts.. As I mention I had enough BB kit building and tweakingf over the years and now prefer the superior RTR line. Think of this..Those crying over the demise of the BB kit may have been weeping bitter tears over the demise of Athearn if they(Athearn) didn't join the RTR market..
I have no doubts those old BB kits wasn't selling all that well against the RTR market with the added on line discounts..
As I mention I had enough BB kit building and tweakingf over the years and now prefer the superior RTR line.
Think of this..Those crying over the demise of the BB kit may have been weeping bitter tears over the demise of Athearn if they(Athearn) didn't join the RTR market..