I would:
1) Simplify the layout...I'm actually in the process of doing that now...In the past it has been difficult to avoid the temptation of putting in too much track which made the layout look more like a theme park than a prototype railorad.
2) In keeping with the above.."less is more" philosphy..I would have a smaller locomotive and rolling stock roster...but one which is better detailed. Same for buildings structures etc.
3) I would put greater emphsis on scenary..I like modelling that better than modelling towns.
4)
If I knew I would end up being limited to less than 30 square feet of real estate I would have bought in to On30.
Have fun with your trains
I wouldn't bother attempting to convert my old locomotives to DCC. The process was nothing but a expensive headache and ultimately met with limited success. Instead, I would just purchase new DCC-ready ones and sell the old ones to someone who may be handier at that process than myself.
Paint the backdrop before setting up the railroad. It was difficult to accomplish otherwise, but I managed. Lighting falls under this category as well, however my lighting situation was adequate before construction started.
Use lighter benchwork. This was most noticeable upon moving.
Not paint over frogs when weathering track, or at least be more careful when doing so. That was a somewhat painful lesson in electric conductivity.
I'm fortunate to have a room that is about 15x22 feet for my railroad. If I had it to do over again I'd make better use of that space. My pike has 22 inch r. curves and I would like to have 32 inch. I would go with the open grid style bench work instead of a flat plywood surface that relies on devices such as foam for my elevations. From watching a friend build his grid type I believe it makes it easier to install remote switch machines for those harder to reach turnouts. Even though 98 percent of my turnouts are within 24 to 28 inches of the aisle, when you start adding structures and scenery it gets harder to reach them. Those are some of the things I'd do for sure.
There is also a very good probability that I would switch to the modern era and a local area. I think I'm one of the few modelers in my age group (60's) that actually like large, modern diesels and modern rolling stock (over steam). Now you see the reason for the 32 inch R. curves. I also think I would do a better job making a more believable railroad if I worked from photos, GOOD photos of actual local, present day scenes. This doesn't mean I don't like steam.. , I do... and some would be prowling around.
Jarrell
The thing I'm glad I did was planning. For years I planned and tweaked until I had a dead-on track plan and a picture in my mind of the scenery. That was good.
What I would change is to have built my layout where I had more room to expand. I used a space 4' wide by 9' long and built a great little layout (just like the picture in my mind), but then I wanted more. I looked at a lot of options and the only one that made sense was to run track around the furnace to a space on the other side. It works OK, but it would have been less dumb to have built the layout on the other side of the room - 20' with no furnace.
If I feel really ambitious some winter, I can re-arrange and get the layout away from the furnace. Still, it would have been much smarter to just build it there in the first place.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
Hello everybody,
thank you very much for all the responses. I have read all of them and must say there is a lot of great information from which I can learn even though this is my fourth layout that is being build.
The first two layouts were without elevations trying to figure out different scenery methods, laying track and learning about the quality of the rolling stock. The third layout was high enough to walk underneath in the living room. It had a 2% grade and interesting operating options as well as issues in design and operation. This fourth layout has three levels with the fourth soon to be added in the form of staging. It is DC with four power packs. One for each level and a fourth that can control power on all three levels including the helix. Scenery has improved, track laying tricks and general trouble shooting and operation has improved thanks to all of you.
So the reason for this thread is to enable people starting out in the hobby to avoid certain pit falls. Thanks to all of your great responses I think also people more seasoned are learning a lot. I know I am learning a lot.
Again Thank you
Frank
"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."
I am in the unenviable position of doing just that. Through divorce and a foreclosure on my house, I lost my entire collection of locos an rollign stock. ABout the only thing I had was my collection of MR and my other reference books (and even lost a couple of those). No tools, no locos, no DCC equipment, nothing. Last year I was finally back in a position to start over. What did I do different this time? Well, before I bought my first kit I bought tools. Every tool I could recall using before, from microbrushes for glue applciation to Xuron rail nippers. NMRA gauge, Kadee gauge, two sets of needle files (one for metal, one for palstic), sprue nippers - and a toolbox to keep it in. Then I scoured eBay to find the kits and locos I used to have as well as others that would fit my location and era. What I did differently there was not just keep waiting and waiting to make the steal by getting an $80 loco for $20 - this time I figured if I got the $80 loco for $50 I was still getting it for less than I'd find at any LHS. I still passed things by that went much higher ($50 including the shipping).
I didn;t have the room I used to, so I was working on a small switchign layout. One thing I did differently with the benchwork was inset the foam into the side rails - the cross pieces were 24" rather than 22 1/2" so the foam sits inside the longitudinal members rather than squarely on top. I also used 2 layers of 2" extruded foam instead of 1 layer, to allow for more below the tracks carving. ANd I put 1/4" plywood on the bottom. I just moved to a larger palce so I will come up with a full room track plan and build more of the same type of sections to fill the room. I saved the one I already made, by removing the legs a 2x8 chunk of 1x3's and 1x4's with extruded foam is relatively lightweight and easily moved. I was originally goign to make the sections 2x4' but the 2x8' was moved easily enough so future sections will be that size. The other change I made was height - the previous layout was low to accommodate my ex father-in-law who is a lot shorter then I am, so it was a compromise. This one is being built up higher to best suit me.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
1. From the start I should have had a concrete plan. I do now after 9 years of buying things that kind of fit my era. I've effectively cut my rolling stock roster in half over the past year and decreased my locomotives by 10.
2. Don't over dream when developing a plan. I am now modeling 4 small towns - one with a super small yard and branch line off of my line (total of roughly 18 miles of real railroad) instead of modeling 12 towns with two yards (total of 70 miles of railroad) and 3 interchange railroads.
3. Don't buy large multiplies of the same car when I don't need it. I model a grain line so I need a lot of covered hoppers, but I don't need 20+ of cars that I could only use 1 or 2 max.
4. Stick with my prototype and avoid distractions. I model the Missouri Pacific period. There were no detours or trackage rights in my area of modeling. I've dabbled in the Rock Island (still plan to include 1 train - enjoy the history). I saw a great looking Clinchfield plan in Model Railroader, but I need to avoid the temptation.
5. Start modeling. Get off the couch and computer and do something. Justify the money and time spent on the hobby. When I put my nose to it, I can build some nice models. Just need to do it.
Just my 2-cents.
Nate
Yeah,,,,,motivation,,well someday. Next time around I think I'll go double deck. Still stay in the 40s and fifties era. Will definetly go to live frog turnouts.I've got #6 atlas turnouts but my short wheel baase and most steamers don't like em. I'm currently wiring the frogs to see if I can improve the herky jerkies. BILL
Lots of good information in this thread that I am taking to heart since I am currently in "starting all over" mode. The good thing is that I only had about 20 feet of mainline down on my double deck N-scale layout before I realized I needed to hit the reset button. My reason for doing this is my one and only contribution to this thread:
1. Don't start building with an incomplete track plan!
I went ahead and laid track in the first section of my layout, completely wired and everything, when I came to an important conclusion: I could not come up with what to do where the track should go on the rest of the layout. I knew the general towns and industries I wanted to have and even where I wanted them to be, but when it got time to put pencil to paper I could not get everything in my head to work out on a plan. When reality sunk in, I stopped construction and went back to the drawing board--and that is where I am right now in week three of abiding by the rule I stated above. In my case, I switched my prototype to a different section of the CSX and this time have found that the scenes I want to model will fit my space and they are going on paper (well, computer) before I lay the first piece of track. I am surprised that I could not design myself out of the corner I painted myself into on the original plan, but I am also surprised at how much enjoyment I am getting out of this second design. I guess the higher level rule that applies here is to not get ahead of yourself regardless of how eager you are to move forward. Jamie
CLICK HERE FOR THE CSX DIXIE LINE BLOG
Wow, one of the best threads for me. I'm still plugging away at my new train room and will take many of your thoughts to heart.
"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."
just got done with the hidden staging yard. This is the fourth level and next time the lowest level will be the first installed. What a job when you only have 4 inches trying to lay track and doing the wiring. So far a six axle diesel will run on the tracks without issue so next will be a mixed freight. See how that works.
Then it is onto wiring up the turn out machines followed by lights. Gotta love this hobby, one can choose to operate or build different aspects of the layout.
markpierce Trust my instincts ("gut") rather than the exhortations of others. (In hindsight, "gut" was right 98%, others' exhortations 2%. Never did follow my "gut" enough.) .... Mark
Trust my instincts ("gut") rather than the exhortations of others. (In hindsight, "gut" was right 98%, others' exhortations 2%. Never did follow my "gut" enough.) ....
Mark
To avoid repeating my learning experiences several times over, I need to use techniques and materials that I know work for me, rather than what is popular or frequently cited in the forums. Examples of popular stuff that didn't work so great for me:
I also found layout planning must account for scenic separation of various track levels, actual size of planned structures, and most importantly, sight and access lines for planned switching locations. Even if using magnetic uncoupling, I need to be able to see the magnet location markers to accurately spot cars. Reach-in turnout throwing or uncoupling requires access without bumping delicate trees and structures.
Finally, know that I will change and learn as time and the layout progresses. Remember to have fun despite the occasional rework as I change what I want or how I want to do things. It's a hobby - not everything can or should be totally planned in advance.
model railroading is fun
Fred W
....modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it's always 1900....
fwright markpierce Trust my instincts ("gut") rather than the exhortations of others. (In hindsight, "gut" was right 98%, others' exhortations 2%. Never did follow my "gut" enough.) .... Mark To avoid repeating my learning experiences several times over, I need to use techniques and materials that I know work for me, rather than what is popular or frequently cited in the forums. Examples of popular stuff that didn't work so great for me: cork roadbed. Dries out and crumbles for me. Have proven this 3 times now. Use Homasote instead. extruded foam for subroadbed. Makes the trackwork excessively "thick" for layout designs that have elevated track, and makes access difficult for hidden track. Use good old cookie cutter plywood and thin shell scenery instead. This was my latest lesson learned. Atlas flex track and turnouts (especially Snap Switches!). Used to get trains running quickly. Takes too much effort to lay and adjust for derailment-free operation. Flex track is gauged unnecessarily wide, creates wallowing for steam locos on straight track. Tunrouts invariably need adjustments at frogs, points, and flangeways. Unpowered frogs cause stalling of my small locos. Instead, devote the time to hand laying the track from the get-go and save the money. stacked foam scenery. I'm not good at visualizing where to carve after stacking a bunch of pieces. It's much easier for me to create a shell to the terrain form I want using window screen or similar. I can remove the screen or use it as the scenery shell base. I can even replace the screen with thin (1/4" fan-fold works well) foam bent to the shape I want. Thin shell scenery gives much better access to the underside of the layout for hidden track, wiring, switch machines, and uncoupling ramps. getting all the track working correctly first. I find adding scenery often changes where I want the track to be. And I enjoy laying track into already partially developed scenery. If decent access was planned in, laying track directly on the layout rather than at the bench works well, and is more fun. I also found layout planning must account for scenic separation of various track levels, actual size of planned structures, and most importantly, sight and access lines for planned switching locations. Even if using magnetic uncoupling, I need to be able to see the magnet location markers to accurately spot cars. Reach-in turnout throwing or uncoupling requires access without bumping delicate trees and structures. Finally, know that I will change and learn as time and the layout progresses. Remember to have fun despite the occasional rework as I change what I want or how I want to do things. It's a hobby - not everything can or should be totally planned in advance. model railroading is fun Fred W ....modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it's always 1900....
YES, YES, YES, YES, YES!
Perhaps On3 ??
I'm just building a H0n3 module.
Bigger!
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de my videos my blog
Invested in Apple and Microsoft
da_krautWhat are your experiences?
Most of the advice given here -- even by myself -- is way beyond the comprehension of a 5 year old let alone their skill set. SOOOooo, I have to say that would have done everything exactly the same. Model Railroading is a learning experience. I certainly learn a lot from mistakes. If I hadn't done all those things "wrong" through the years, I would certainly not know nearly as much as I do now and I would probably either:
1. not be in model railroading and have other hobby interests.
2. be a snob who "knows" all these things that "experts" told me. Since I "know" them they have to be 100% right - now, tomorrow, and forever and no one can "know" something different.
I am just glad I am actually doing it.
Well, since I recently just "started over" on a new layout and new concept, I thought I would revisit my earlier post on this subject...
I would have: -Designed my layout completely on a software program which allowed me to actually operate trains on it like Auran Trainz.
-Designed my layout completely on a software program which allowed me to actually operate trains on it like Auran Trainz.
I actually did this to a small extent - just track and trains with no scenery. I used it to judge passing siding lengths.
- Gone with DCC right from the start.
Done! Already had it from my previous layout.
- Hand lay all visible trackage! I know, I know, hand laid track isn't as "realistic"as it doesn't have tie plates, the spikes are over sized etc... But there is just something about the look of hand laid track that is really appealing to me.
Alas, since I am sticking with tried and true construction techniques - cookie cutter sub-roadbed and cork roadbed - I won't be handlaying any track this time around.
- Planned the location for bridges better.
I did this right up front, something I failed to do on the PA&P layout. My bridges and their locations are included as part of my track plan - not an after thought.
- Run all under layout wiring BEFORE starting on scenery!
My new layout is based on the Milwaukee Road from Avery ID to St Paul Pass. It will be signaled with ABS! All wiring is going in before the hardshell scenery, even if I don't have the signals or detection circuits yet. When I get them, the wires will be there!
- Install ground throws at the same time I install the switch.
Because my layout will have overhead catenary, all switches will be operated via electrical controls in a fascia mounted control panel. The less hands reaching into the scenery the better!
- George
Wow, what a helpful thread, and just after I scrapped my 12 year old layout and started over swearing not to make the same mistakes again! Everyone's comments will help me not make the new mistakes I would have made if I had been left to my own devices. For example, I had decided to go with foam to make tree 'planting' easier but had not thought about how much easier underneath access is with hard shell - but how do you get trees in it?
The underlying principle I will follow is KISS, I tend to make things too complicated, overplaned, overdesigned, overbuilt. Secondly, everything must be accessible, I'm getting too old to climb, crawl, stretch or twist. But I am having fun, I've got that part down.
Thanks All,
Ernie C
I would not buy Model Power locomotives.
Good grief - way too funny. Here are my top fifteen.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
got to looking at my christmas lights. These led lights are 4 years old and have the large bulbs. They work great for lighting but the bulbs are too large for the HO homes. So took my side cutters and put on a pair of safety glasses and started cutting the bulb. Started cutting at the base where the clear part attaches to the green rubber. Just kind of nibbled away at the clear plastic cutting small small chunks from the now brittle plastic. It caused small pieces of plastic to fly around the room. Once enough clear plastic has been cut the entire clear decorative head head pops off. It exposes a 3/16 diameter diode.
So here is the thinking: The rubber on the bulb was kind of brittle and did not cut well but one should be able to expose the led with some careful cutting. Specially on a new string of lights. Also once the clear plastic has been removed you now have a small bulb that gives off enough light to nicely light up part or all of your structure.
This January when everybody is selling their christmas left over lights for cheap pick up a stringer and experiment. You might just get a light supply for your layout for cheap.
Hope it helps
1. I would narrow my time date.
2. I would concentrate on certain railroad names. For example BNSF
3. Buy Kadee # 58 couplers more prototypical looking.
4. Buy only Atlas, and Kato engines.
5. Buy Metal wheels (intermountain)
6. 3ft. aisles
7. No duckunders
8. Take your time laying the track, don't be in such a rush.
8. Buy wood, when you need it. They warp fast
9. Only use drywall screws, and screw from underneath. Not from the top
Brass track, horn hook couplers, plastic wheels, dummy engines (They need to earn their keep, not be dead weight) Steam engines that don't pull well, Toostie Roll tank cars or advertising brands, tyco stuff, cheap trainset power packs that cannot feed a 2 pound motor 6 feet away. And crappy track switches or associated bad track work.
Buying whatever impulse stuff strikes... ooo this Pink Cancer Modern Boxcar from Athearn fits my 1930's era layout. It did earn a bit of Love from the Spouse so I guess it's worth it.
Finally but not last.
PREORDER. I am fed up and sick of Pre-Ordering something and then waiting 6 months, a year or two (If ever....) for the item to arrive. Especially with little to NO information developed other than either a paint drawing or a prototype photo.
Finally I know that the Hobby is a solitary pursuit. Do what makes YOU happy. NOT the Roman Legions worth of opinionated, jaded and hard to please rivet counters mixed in with those who think that a dusty .80 cent Athearn Kit from 30 years ago is worth 40 dollars at a show because everything sold today is ready to run.
But the single biggest gripe or mistake I ever made was caving in and buying a dummy athearn switch engine at 12.00 instead of paying 22 dollars for a powered one.I eventually coughed up 20 dollars for a powered chassis to power the dummy for a grand total far more than the engines were worth retail.
Then again I really feel badly for griping over 12 and 22 dollars when there are two modern DCC/Sound switch engines sitting in their boxes valued at 350+ retail. By the way, they are not made anymore, limited run only.
The Athearns were bullet proof and provided 25 years service and were still running perfectly the day I sold them both. Irv would have been pleased.
The switch engine saga took me... oh, 30 years or so to resolve.
FINALLY... we get to the number one issue.
DON'T. MAKE. A. 400 to 700 dollar STEAM engine and only equip with a dummy plastic coupler on the front end. Put a 1.80 Kaydee Whisker coupler and box there for crying out loud.
Then again the Economy being what it is those HO scale trains are just too expensive. I switched scales to partly reduce costs and to manage my limitations to still enjoy trains.
For instance. A 300 dollar DCC sound engine, controlled by 500 dollars worth of DCC stuff and associated electronics. Pulling 10-20 cars valued at 20 dollars each and topped off by a Rapido Caboose that will run you 60 dollars. (Ooo look at the pretty lights on the end.) that is about 1500 dollars for a train and something to run it minus track, bench work and scenery items.
And there are people who fill homes with these money-sinks. Ah well. Holiday season is here and here is to a happy train season!
Hi!
My current layout (under construction) is HO, ATSF, late '40s - '50s. As I am 65, I fully realize this is likely my last layout and am incorporating all the "wants" I can into it. And, I'm taking my time and hopefully "doing it right". The previous layout lasted 14 years, and I learned a lot about what works and doesn't and what I really want in a layout.
Regarding the hobby, what would I do differently??? Having been a railroad nut since the '50s, I sure would have held on to my Lionel stuff (including boxes). And conversely, I would not have bought all that Postwar Lionel in the '90s - at peak prices. Oh, I should have bought mint in box stuff rather than cars/locos in nice condition.
I would not have bought "one of every road" cars, and accumulated 600 plus (mostly still in kit form) just "because". And I sure would have saved my money and bought quality locos, rather than so many of the less expensive kind.
On this new layout, I migrated to DCC (Digitrax) and that was an excellent decision. I also bought a number of BLIs with DCC/Sound and that was a good decision as well. The many Stewart locos I have also were some of my better purchases.
As I am answering this question today, I do have one regret...... I sure would not have bought that Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 that "threw the screw", knowing now that getting a replacement has turned into a major hassle (see my posting on the subject).
Hey,
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
mobilman44As I am answering this question today, I do have one regret...... I sure would not have bought that Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 that "threw the screw", knowing now that getting a replacement has turned into a major hassle (see my posting on the subject).
Sorry you had a problem with your Bachmann loco. I have only partly followed you posts on that subject, but as I am sure you are aware by now, Bachmann will make it good even if it takes a little time.
On that basic topic let me pose a thought.
I have 26 Bachmann spectrum steamers, all run great. Two were duds that had to be returned which did take about 3-4 weeks each on average. That woks out to a failure rate of 8%, and at 26 locos that may well be representive of Bachmann's failure rate.
But I have only 9 products from Broadway Limited. One came missing parts, and that one and one like it required modification to operate correctly. One other required modification to install the required working front coupler and all but the first two mentioned required some electrical modification to work well on my DC control system. So, that is a 100% failure rate if you look at from a "out of the box and on the track" point of view.
So should I exclude BLI from purchase list? I think not. They offer well detailed models of good mechanical quality of prototypes I desire for my layout, as does Bachmann. And, to be honest, I do some mods to the Bachmann locos to improve their performance as well.
They all get extra weight in the tenders and the RF noise capacitors removed from their circuit boards. Some get special mods to the tender drawbars to improve close coupling and clearance for the wiring harness. And many are kit bashed with different Bachmann tenders which sometimes requires additional wiring mods.
To the OP's question, after 40 years in this hobby I am now building my 4th layout. And I am very comfortable with ALL my choices. I would not change anything. I know what I want, I know what I like, I know what I can do (and what I can't or won't). I Know what I can afford and I have a very specific set of goals for my layout. These goals do not change randomly with each new product announcement or each new issue of MR or RMC.
Very happy an secure with my modeling choices,
Sheldon
Except for the rebuild I am curently undertaking (raising the layout from 38" or so to 52" for easier access with a bad back) I personally would do just as your list suggests from the getgo and perhaps add the step of plan, plan, plan. However, according to my wife, I would have been better off not getting into the hobby at all and would be much more than $45k richer and have more time to spend with the dogs and grandkids. Oh, well, score a big one for the hobby and me.