Sticker Shock

[BRAKIE]

Barry said:Or is it all---I want it ---2 weeks ago? 

-----------------------

Could be in some cases..

From the modelers I talked to its the high price..

 

Again by my  modest HO needs the Athearn passenger cars would fill the bill.

 

In N Kato fills the bill with their 4 car sets-again if I wanted a passenger train.

[andrechapelon]

Brakie:

A oddity is Branchline's 3 pack kits sells for $119.85..A fairly good bargain if one doesn't mind building kits.

How's that a bargain? It's 3 times the price of an individual kit. You can get the same effect buying 1 kit at a time until you have the 3 cars you want. Then you don't have to shell out all the money at once. Besides, if you buy the 3 pack, you get all the same type of car. Buy 'em one at a time and you can mix/match.

The Rapido MSRP doesn't bother me. I'm not buying because they're out of my era for the SP (who got Cotton Belt OB's in the late 50's when SSW quit the passenger biz).

Andre

[blownout cylinder]

Brakie(Larry); I'd look into picking something up like those coaches if I was in HO to begin with. And with the passenger needs on my so called shortline, RDC's were fine for me--and the RDC's I got were at a fleamarket for pete's sake. But even then--Yes, they would run over $300 for a 4/5 car set MSRP. But--how about budgeting for a car a month? Or even saving up over a period of time?

 Or is it all---I want it ---2 weeks ago? 

[BRAKIE]

don7

I was certainly surprised by the MSP of the new upcoming Rapido Osgood coaches. There was grumbling with the new Walthers coach prices which are basically priced at $65.00 US.  The new Rapido coaches are indicated to have a $75.00 US price tag.

Don,You're not the first to mention the price tags..

Here in the real world I hear that a lot from the majority of the modelers I talk to at various clubs I visit and at trackside.

As one fella pointed out a 5 car train will cost around $300.00-unacceptable to most I talked to.I agreed because I heard the same.

 

A oddity is Branchline's 3 pack kits sells for $119.85..A fairly good bargain if one doesn't mind building kits.

The best way to beat sticker shock is buy at the best discount or not to buy the high tagged items at full  MSRP...In fact I stopped buying at full MRSP.

 

For me,I won't be buying any of those high priced passenger cars.

If I wanted a passenger train,I would use Athearn cars that costs far less and still fills my modest needs..

 

BTW and just for fun..

 

A 4 car passenger train in N Scale would cost me less then 2 high price HO passenger cars.

[RedGrey62]

Even though my hobby budget is not as large as I would like, I have no problem with the price of the new Rapido cars or any of the other highly detailed models out there.  While I don't have any of the current Rapido cars, I have hope that they, or others, will produce passenger cars that will fill my wants.  There is a cost to bring highly detailed models to market and judging by the fact that Rapido continues to release new cars and roadnames, it appears that they are doing well enough to keep going.

Ricky Keil

[blownout cylinder]

fwright

For me, I find $40/month doesn't go far enough to do what I would like to do - and I'm only looking at just a little over 40 square feet.

 

I'm finding that anything between $60/mo to $110/mo does it for me--although that is averaged out. Individual month budgets may vary---

[fwright]

RRCanuck

One of the things I've always wished was that when MR runs an article on building a layout (The Beer Line is a case in point), they never say what the MSRP cost of the thing was when all is said and done (or if they did, I missed it).  It would be helpful for them to keep a running tab on what the cost was for all materials, kits, landscaping, paint, track, switches, etc. 

Cheers.

Actually, MR did just that with a project layout in the '90s - in an attempt to build a layout for $500.  And they used to sum all the costs for their '50s project layouts.

While keep track of rolling stock costs may have made sense in the '50s when there was little choice, and most offerings were generic, the awesome selection for specific prototypes today makes duplicating MR's project railroad a lot less likely.  A layout that is a step beyond the traditional 4x8 like the Beer Line is going to be considerably more expensive and far less likely to be duplicated exactly. 

And unless one is duplicating exactly, actual costs are going to vary widely, depending on individual choices.  Equipment, supplies, and tools already on hand make a tremendous difference, too.  I prefer to deal with cost/ square foot.  For the low end, let's take the $500 layout as an example, and assume it costs $600 today.  Cost for a 26 sq ft very simple layout with cheap structures, minimal detailing, and a train set for the starting point for rolling stock, track, and power pack gives $23/sq ft.  For most of us, we would easily push that to at least $50/sq ft for the extra rolling stock and locomotive, improved control system, a few higher end structure kits, and perhaps more and better quality turnouts.  Subtracted from that could be stuff already on hand from previous layouts, but if you add total costs for a layout that's more than a glorified train set and include costs of the previously owned items, I'd be very surprised to see less than $50/sq ft.  And remember, that doesn't include tools.

If you are starting with nothing, the upfront costs are pretty high for the 1st year.  Subsequent layouts don't have as high an upfront cost because the spending has been spaced over a few years, and most items are reusable.

For me, I find $40/month doesn't go far enough to do what I would like to do - and I'm only looking at just a little over 40 square feet.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

[RRCanuck]

I'd also like to thank Jason for his comments - it helps to have an industry insider weigh in and explain the realities of the market.  I think dknelson also hit the nail on the head with his comments... the fact is that we all set our priorities differently, and if you want top-of-the-line equipment (in whatever field of endeavour) then you're going to have to pay for it.  I'd love to have a Mercedes Benz 500 but not enough to pay for one.

Needless to say, in these difficult times people will be re-examining their priorities. If it means enough to you to buy top-of-the-line passenger cars, then you'll find a way to do it, perhaps by sacrificing elsewhere.  Otherwise, you'll make do with a more basic car at a lower price.

To each his own.

One of the things I've always wished was that when MR runs an article on building a layout (The Beer Line is a case in point), they never say what the MSRP cost of the thing was when all is said and done (or if they did, I missed it).  It would be helpful for them to keep a running tab on what the cost was for all materials, kits, landscaping, paint, track, switches, etc. 

Cheers.

[blownout cylinder]

Rapido

Tooling is of course the biggest cost, and it is one that people don't always see. A new locomotive or passenger car can easily cost $100,000 in tooling. Obviously, a less-detailed car does not need as many moulds. But once we are already paying to make those extra details, leaving the details off will save a buck or two at most. That's because a large portion of the unit cost is the amortization of the tooling over the production run. If I started with a less-detailed product, that would be another story. But "less detail" is not what Rapido is all about.

 

Even if it was less detail from the start I'm kinda wondering whether the tooling costs might still keep it up there. A buddy and I are sort of doing a learning curve on a cnc milling machine and THAT alone is getting interesting-- What I'm wondering about is the length of a production run. And how one factors amortization in these cases---

Thanks for this information Jason, this really helps in the understanding of the thing a lot!!

[fkrall]

In my opinion, except for the inflammatory and unfounded comment about the corporate jet, this is a great thread.  And I'd particularly like to thank Jason for his excellent summary of the realities of manufacturing and pricing.

I applaud what Jason's doing--even though he's not helping me with PRR!  There are less expensive alternatives for those who wish them--including, gasp, kits--but I believe there's a place for highly detailed models. I agree that it's all about value. That has value for me and I'll pay for it selectively, but I understand that's not everybody's cup of tea.

I'm returning to the hobby after 50 years, and every time I hear complaints about prices I'm tempted to ask, "How much should it cost?"  I believe most hobbies, sports, and pastimes are expensive, but the value lies in the pleasure they offer their practitioners.  My corporate jet is on a stand in my workroom, and on my one day as a paperboy in 1953 I let a druggist convince me to give him all my papers in exchange for a single-dip ice cream cone. That taught me a lesson about instant gratification, so now I watch my pennies, build kits, delay purchases until I can afford them, lust after the odd premium model, and have a blast.  As for Jason's--and others'--expensive and super-detailed models--I think they play a critical role in elevating the hobby's reputation and in inspiring at least this modeler to do better. Not to mention sell more newspapers.

Rick Krall 

[Rapido]

citylimits

I'm wondering if Rapido has given some thought to offering these cars with much less detail - perhaps a budget line - that could reflect in a cheaper price - probably not. 

 

Bruce

To give you a bit of an inside look into things...

The issue is not so much cost of materials, or even time to assemble the highly detailed cars. These are certainly factors but not enough to make a huge difference in price.

The big issues (for us, anyway) are tooling, painting and decorating.

Tooling is of course the biggest cost, and it is one that people don't always see. A new locomotive or passenger car can easily cost $100,000 in tooling. Obviously, a less-detailed car does not need as many moulds. But once we are already paying to make those extra details, leaving the details off will save a buck or two at most. That's because a large portion of the unit cost is the amortization of the tooling over the production run. If I started with a less-detailed product, that would be another story. But "less detail" is not what Rapido is all about.

I'm going to give you some round numbers, which are just for example and aren't based on any actual product. Say my tooling cost me that $100,000, and the raw materials cost and labour for a given super-detailed product is $20. If I am making 5,000 of these, my tooling cost is $20 per model. So my raw cost is $40 per model. Add 10% for freight, customs and brokerage, and we're now at $44. In order to cover my overhead costs such as advertising, salaries, rent, legal and accounting fees, travel to shows, etc., I need to double my money. This will leave us with about 15% profit. So now the price I am quoting to my wholesalers is $88, which means the retail price will be around $195.

As I mentioned above, painting and decorating eat up the most time for a given model. So if I leave off all of the super detailing, my raw cost might be $18 instead of $20. So my overall unit cost landed is $41.80, and my wholesale price is $83.60, and the retail price is about $185.

As you can see, leaving off the detail won't make much of a difference in the end price. Another issue is that sales of 5000 can certainly be expected with a very common prototype. Once you get into things like CN and VIA FP9A locomotives or the LRC, there simply isn't the market for those kinds of numbers. So your tooling cost per unit goes up considerably, and leaving off details would make even less of a difference to the overall price.

I hope this info helps.

Best regards,

Jason

[citylimits]

Just recently I sold a very basic HW brass combine at $95.00 - I worked hard to get that for it.This was a Lambert car with no trucks, no interior, no glass and only a very basic level of under car detail.

I don't know if its a valid comparison talking about plastic and brass models in the same breath, but I would feel like I was getting good value for my $75.00 in buying a Rapido car with all that super detail and so forth. Apart from some now difficult to obtain plastic kits amd some Brass sides, the up-coming OB "American Flyer" cars from Rapido are perhaps the only game in town if you want to include these cars in your roster and I do want to buy the latter differently configured SAL cars.

Goodness knows where the dough will come from, but I do plan on on buying a couple.

I'm wondering if Rapido has given some thought to offering these cars with much less detail - perhaps a budget line - that could reflect in a cheaper price - probably not. 

 

Bruce

[Rapido]

Thanks, John, for your comments about the cars.

Paul3

I saw these car test shots at Springfield, and while they are beautiful, there's just one thing that concerned me.  There appears to be a belt rail of steel around the perimeter of the upper roof panels.  The O-B roof is made of three courses of steel plate: one in the center that overlaps the two that head curve towards the letterboards (as compared to the post-war SS fleet that had just a single plate of steel per roof section).  These O-B roof plates overlap, but there is no belt of steel at this joint.  On the pre-production Rapido models, there's a definite ridge or belt at the joint that just doesn't belong there.  Have you noticed this, or am I just imagining things?  I have four of these on order, so I'd kinda like to know if I should buy undec.'s instead so I can file the roof and paint it myself.

That bump has been removed. Those were just first test castings.

Being a VIA-CN modeller myself, I need to rely on New Haven experts to get these Osgood-Bradley cars right. So at every stage I send both drawings and photos to a number of experienced New Haven modellers both inside and outside the NHRHTA. At the end of the day, I am responsible for ensuring these cars are accurate so I need to get help from the best out there. The same is true with the CP caboose, another model slightly outside my area of expertise.

All going well the 10-window coaches will enter production by the summer and be in stores in the fall.

Best regards,

Jason

[Paul3]

John,
I'll have to keep my eyes open for Bennington Scale Model items.  Goodness knows, I go to enough train shows every year so I should see something eventually.

The E&B/ECW cars are okay models once you tone down the rivets and put on decent trucks, provided one can find one that's not warped.  Interestingly enough, the E&B's that I've purchased over the years have not been warped, only the ECW's.  Hmm...

I forgot another O-B manufacturer: New Haven Terminal (AKA Bradford Hobbies).  He's the guy behind the NHRHTA tables at Springfield every year, and makes a variety of resin NH models (his new EP-4 looks pretty good, considering from where it came from).  His O-B coach is based on the E&B/ECW model, however, so all it's flaws are repeated.  The only benefit is that he sells undec's assembled, which makes life a lot easier (I have three).

Too bad about the R-1 job.  If you ever get the chance and finish it, please publish it in the NHRHTA Bulletin.  Thanks!

Speaking of the line to P-Town, I assume you have the fan trip video from the movie, "The New Haven in the 1950's and 1960's"?  It was an extra 20 minute piece at the end of the normal tape.  It had no sound, but it was in color.  The fan trip was an RDC trip to P-Town in the mid-1950's, and there was a lot of action shot from the cab.  Well, if you don't have it, I've heard through the rumor mill that this video with the extra 20 minute trip will be done on DVD in the not to distant future and the NHRHTA might be getting some to sell at the tables.  It's a great vid of the Cape main, with mostly sand for ballast. 

BTW, the NHRHTA will be at the West Barnstable show, but I don't know if I'll be there (it's a long haul of over 70 miles for me).

Nice talking with you!

Paul A. Cutler III
*******************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*******************

[blownout cylinder]

Somewhere in my stockpile I have a bunch of N scale building kits done up in brass. All I paid for these was $30 the lot. If some people have become that concerned about price dig these up in some trainshows or what have you.

And yes Andre, I remember all the stuff I had to do--meandering around after my route was done with my AGFA camera and haunting our train station waiting for the early passenger and freights going through Woodstock at about 7am-----We usually had everything at our place about 4:30am and I'd be off just before 5am---

[andrechapelon]

Midnight Railroader

kddigger

 The only reason prices are going up is so that some guy sitting at a desk can get his new jet or buy a new $100000 car.

 

Your understanding of economics has some serious holes in it.

You're a lot kinder than I would be.

Andre

[Midnight Railroader]

kddigger

 The only reason prices are going up is so that some guy sitting at a desk can get his new jet or buy a new $100000 car.

 

Your understanding of economics has some serious holes in it.

[dknelson]

I think we all understand that it is possible to fully participate in and enjoy this hobby while finding the less expensive stuff, the less prototypically precise models, and perhaps even older and used equipment, all perfectly acceptable for what we want to do with the hobby. 

As part of that I suspect each of us has in his or her brain some notion, perhaps never articulated but there, deep down, that "I will never spend more than $X for a passenger car, never spend more than $Y for a locomotive" and so on.  Regardless of quality.  Regardless of how much you want the item.  And from the beginning of the hobby you can rest assured that someone out there is willing to spend more.

The same is true for houses, cars, clothes, vacations, education, a dinner out, sports, a piano, you name it.   And in fact, these price points that each of us has often have nothing to do with our ability to pay.  I know some people of wealth who will happily pay quite a bit for a car, but would never think of spending more than $10 for a bottle of wine.  And I know someone who does not make much money but to them it makes no sense to own any piano other than a Steinway.    

But to return to the example at hand, if someone wants these precise cars, and nothing else will do, and nobody else makes them or is likely ever to make them, and you know Rapido has a track record as to high quality goods, then .... what?  Wait for them to be cheaper?  Sometimes things disappear before they get cheaper.  Wait for them to be on sale?  That can take the nerves of a Mississippi riverboat gambler with limited run stuff.  Bite the bullet?   Some will choose that.  Each of us has his or her own limits. 

Dave Nelson

 

[jpryke]

Hello Paul,

My OB cars were sold from 1963 - 1969 under the lable Bennington Scale Models.  They still show up on white elephant tables for $35-40.  FYI E&B Valley and Eastern Car Works are the same.  The NJI cars were brass and poor.  Rapido will eventually do the 10 window, 11 window and Smoker (8500s) ib full skirts, no skirts over trucks, and no skirts at all.  BIG project.  I saw the 10 window and Smoker.  The test shots that you saw at Springfield were first generation; all of the hacks have been fixed,  Watch the Rapido ads for availability.

The Spectrum R-1 that appeared in the article on the P-2K 0-8-0 was never finished.  Thanks for your kind words on my old Acton Pike.  I now live on Cape Cod and am working a layout depicting the New Haven from Boston to Provincetown in 1948.

John

[cv_acr]

Autobus Prime

I wonder this a lot about a lot of MR items.  A passenger car isn't so bad - how many do you need - but a large layout can eat up hundreds of autos, and some of those are $20!  They're out there, though, so somebody must be buying them.  Maybe the tendency is to have a few, and fill out the roster with plastic cheapies. 

You can get pretty good looking, scale model cars from Walmart in the $5 range.

It also depends on where/what you're modelling. Open autorack trains are a killer. Myself, I model a northern Ontario shortline/regional and there isn't much in the way of roads for most of the area served by the line. I'll only need a few autos in select locations.

[Paul3]

Dear John Pryke,
Nice to see you, one of the Deans of New Haven Railroad modeling and operations, posting here. 

I think we met once, at the Marlboro, MA train show back when it was in the High School.  I work the NHRHTA tables for the Old Colony crew (since 1991), and I think you were looking for someone who wasn't at the table right at that moment. 

In any event, how's the new layout?  I almost built a copy of your old layout in my parent's house around 15 years ago, but I found an even larger space that I just couldn't resist to do my Boston to Providence HO layout of my own design.  But your "High Noon on the New Haven" article is still one of my favorite Model Railroader issues, and certainly helped inspire me to do mine.  Thanks.

I have to say I've never seen one of your O-B kits, or at least I don't think I have.  What was the name of your brand?  Adding yours the list, these are the other O-B coach models I know about in HO scale...have there been any others?

1). Pryke kits.
2). American Flyer HO (they were shorties based on their S-scale tooling).
3). E&B Valley (flat styrene kits, painted or undec.).
4). Eastern Car Works (tooling from E&B Valley, only undec. kits...still available).
5). NJ/Custom Brass (1970's brass car, no interior, wrong trucks if any, Grill car also available).
6). Rapido Trains (new)

As far as I know, these are all 10-window version coaches (except the A-F cars, of course).

I saw these car test shots at Springfield, and while they are beautiful, there's just one thing that concerned me.  There appears to be a belt rail of steel around the perimeter of the upper roof panels.  The O-B roof is made of three courses of steel plate: one in the center that overlaps the two that head curve towards the letterboards (as compared to the post-war SS fleet that had just a single plate of steel per roof section).  These O-B roof plates overlap, but there is no belt of steel at this joint.  On the pre-production Rapido models, there's a definite ridge or belt at the joint that just doesn't belong there.  Have you noticed this, or am I just imagining things?  I have four of these on order, so I'd kinda like to know if I should buy undec.'s instead so I can file the roof and paint it myself.

One other thing...  Back a few years ago, you had an article about detailing a Proto 2000 USRA 0-8-0 into a NH Y-3.  In one of the pics in the article, it showed an Elesco "thermos bottle" on the smokebox of what looked like a Bachmann Spectrum 4-8-2.  Did you ever complete an article about transforming one of these into an updated R-1 model?  Was it to be in MR or in the NHRHTA Bulletin?  I have one of these engines myself, and I purchased one of Bachmann's Vandy tenders with the idea to upgrade the model to WWII appearance.  I also have an Elesco detailing kit, but having never done this before, I sure could use some tips.  Thanks!

Paul A. Cutler III
*******************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*******************

[TheK4Kid]

 Well my other hobbie is RC model airplanes.
Have any of you ever heard of Carl Goldberg?
I have a couple of ORIGINAL Carl Goldberg kits from 1941.

The original price on them was $3.95 each.
They are New In The Box yet, and today they fetch prices
between 400 to 700 dollars each.
I paid less than 100 dollars for both of them a long time ago.
I have REPLIKITS of both of them , so I can still build them
and still leave the originals in the boxes.

I also still have my Dad's Lionel "O" scale trains ( two of them with accessories, etc from
the 1930's.
They are in good shape and both trains still run and have the original electric motors in them.

 

[Autobus Prime]

Folks:

Gosh, I could never spend that much on one little passenger car.  I almost find it hard to believe that there are enough people to shell out this kind of change for one, however good it is.  How do they explain it to their wives?  Mine was a bit surprised when I told her that little Bachmann Percy cost thirty bucks. :D

Maybe a few people can afford to ignore the price dimension, but not me, and I dare say not most.  I'd say a few people who used to think they could ignore that sphere have now had to take quick notice, Indiana Jones-style, or get flattened as it rolled by. 

I wonder this a lot about a lot of MR items.  A passenger car isn't so bad - how many do you need - but a large layout can eat up hundreds of autos, and some of those are $20!  They're out there, though, so somebody must be buying them.  Maybe the tendency is to have a few, and fill out the roster with plastic cheapies. 

But seriously...the wife...what do people say?  "OH, they just left the decimal point out, honey."

[andrechapelon]

John Pryke:

Finally, in addition to the four New Haven liveries, the cars will come decorated for the B&M and BAR two other railroads that operated the same cars.

Hopefully, they'll also do them in the Cotton Belt "Daylight" livery and the SP silver/orange stripe livery. SP got Cotton Belt's OB's after it ceased passenger service. Some were assigned to the "Del Monte".

Not to mention the BAR's later gray with blue stripe livery.

Andre

[selector]

Your participation is most welcome, and very positive, John.  It is like anything else offered for sale....how does the prospective buyer value it?   People looking/hoping for some special details in a special item will, as you suggest, be very grateful for this product.

Thanks for chiming in.

-Crandell

[jpryke]

I rarely if ever get into the Forum, but I got a call last night that there was a thread on the Rapido Osgood Bradley Car,  I have read through the thread, and all that I see is Price, Price, Price - nothing about product.

I have been modeling the New Haven since 1958, a time when you either scratchbuilt, heavily kitbashed or manufactured things yourself.  I manufactured the first full length Osgood Bradley (OB) car - etched brass, castings and commercial wood roof - in 1962 and sold the line for about 5 years.  Largely because of that experienced; about a year ago I was put in contact with Rapido who were working on the same OB cars in plastic.  This January, I received a "test shot" of two of these cars, so I have seen the product, albeit not in its "final" form.  To be blunt, the detail on the car is fantastic - possibly the finest that I have seen in one of today's super-detailed plastic passenger cars.  Some facts:

The body dimensions and tubular cross section are exact, and the car comes either with full skirts (1937), skirts removed over trucks (1948 - 1955) or no skirts at all (1955 on).  There is a separate roof with a vent box for the smoker version of the car,  Working diaphragms four paint jobs and choice of six numbers will complete the decoration (which was not on the test shot that I inspected).

The underframe detail is amazing; virtually all pipes and AC components, air tanks, etc. are seperately applied; and highly visible on the cars without skirts.  There are two styles of trucks (friction and roller bearing) to match the time period of the car,

There is a complete interior with correct, one arm, rollover seats,  There is a watch-battery powered lighting system in the roof that is activated by passing a magnet over one end of the roof, 

It is my understanding that even though the car will come "ready to run" some parts (truck leaf springs and two coupler shank lengths) be unmounted come to allow the buyer to operate with full skirts around 24" radius curves.  Some parts (trucks) will be available seperately for the kit bash buffs.

Finally, in addition to the four New Haven liveries, the cars will come decorated for the B&M and BAR two other railroads that operated the same cars.

And, remember that the cars that I saw and held were only test shots that still had about 30% more detail to be added.  From a pure "product" standpoint in my opinion, this car  is better than other heavyweight/lightweight cars on the market today.  The price should not even be an issue.

From all of my raving, you might assume that I am a paid spokesperson for Rapido.  Not the case, I have no formal relationship with them, other than they have finally produced a distinctly New Haven (and B&M, BAR) car that I tried to manufacture 47 years ago using then state-of-the art technology. 

The bottom line is that this product should not be looked at along the price dimension, but rather along the quality and prototypical accuracy dimension.  This is why I wrote this response (even though I may not participate in the Forum for another five years). Yes I will buy some, as they will look great on the model of the New Haven on Cape Cod in 1948 that is growing in my basement.

John Pryke

[CTValleyRR]

kddigger

 The only reason prices are going up is so that some guy sitting at a desk can get his new jet or buy a new $100000 car.

Just throwing a steamer out there to generate some argument, or do you really believe that?

If the latter, I suggest you gain understanding about how businesses work.  Savvy businessmen realize that there is more value in a repeat customer (one who doesn't feel ripped off) than there is in gouging one-time buyers.  Even car dealers -- many of whom have a shady reputation getting as much profit as they can -- would rather sell you a car at a loss and keep you coming back to their service department and to buy your next vehicle than get a hefty profit off of one sale.

And the upper executives of small manufacturing companies --- Bachmann, Walthers, Rapido, Atlas, etc. -- do not make individual pricing decisions on products, but monitor performance on product lines.  The mid-level guys who make the decisions that affect the performance of a product line don't have private jets and $100K autos (my boss has 2 kids in college, one starting next year, has a big mortgage on a 2400 square foot house, and has two family cars -- a 4 year old minivan and an 8 year old Toyota Corolla). He flys economy class when he travels.

And yes, bellyaching is the new National Passtime -- why else do you think Internet Forums were invented?

[andrechapelon]

blownout cylinder

kddigger

but you think pricing on these are bad look at news papers-- the carrier pays .10 each and sell for .75

 

I had two newspaper routes when I was a kid--I got paid to bring the newspapers to the subscribers home. Before throwing lines like this out check the facts out please.BTW--the only way I can see your point work is by suggesting that you might be referring to the newsboys who hawked their papers from the street corners--"Extree, Extree--read all about it!--" that type. But if you are referring to the guys--no kids are doing this any more--then you're barking up the wrong tree----

Then you'll remember that not only did you have to fold, band,and deliver the papers (at 4:30-5am 7 days a week regardless of weather), you also were the collection agent for the newspaper company. You weren't an employee, either, but an "independent businessman" who had to pay for the papers and once you paid for the number of papers you delivered, you got to keep the excess.

As I recall. I had about 120 customers and a monthly subscription was something like $1.75 for a full 7 day subscription. I collected $210. The newspaper company charged me about $175 for the papers, so I got to keep around $35. Collecting subscription money took at least 20 hours. I would guess I worked about 2 hours a day on the route delivering. Lessee. I got $35 for roughly 80 hours work. That amounts to about 44 cents/hour.

Naturally, I bought my corporate jet after my first month in business.

Andre

[blownout cylinder]

kddigger

but you think pricing on these are bad look at news papers-- the carrier pays .10 each and sell for .75

 

I had two newspaper routes when I was a kid--I got paid to bring the newspapers to the subscribers home. Before throwing lines like this out check the facts out please.BTW--the only way I can see your point work is by suggesting that you might be referring to the newsboys who hawked their papers from the street corners--"Extree, Extree--read all about it!--" that type. But if you are referring to the guys--no kids are doing this any more--then you're barking up the wrong tree----

[andrechapelon]

kddigger

 The only reason prices are going up is so that some guy sitting at a desk can get his new jet or buy a new $100000 car.

but you think pricing on these are bad look at news papers-- the carrier pays .10 each and sell for .75

You've never delivered newspapers, have you?

Andre