Prices rise...
Consumers complain...
We learn to adapt...
Threads move on...
...That's the cycle of the MRR world.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
don7 May as well lock this thread. We have more or less reached the ramblings of the absurd and inane.
May as well lock this thread. We have more or less reached the ramblings of the absurd and inane.
But Don, it was absurd and inane from the beginning. It always is. Yet the topic is always resurrected.
Andre
Harry Partch, a 20th century composer of experimental/classical pieces and instrument designer( bass marimba et al) used to go around talking about dance schools set up in reaction to 'classical'---read--ossified--ideas/methods---that soon became THEMSELVES ossified, or 'set in their own ways/means'. Thus the circle completes itself
Just in an inadequate attempt to keep this on topic, what you're basically saying is that the roundy-round 4x8 layout isn't the only thing that has been done to death.
That, and it got ossified in part because it became prohibitively expensive "for the average enthusiast" (to use the blurb on Peco Pubs "Railway Modeler" front cover, at least that's what it used to be).
DCC is already ossified. The next great leap forward in the hobby will be micro-robots running live steam locomotives from the cab. Needless to say, this will doom an already doomed hobby.
Andre - who wonders how much longer this thread will go before being locked. Locking it, will of course set the stage for the next joker who comes along to kvetch about the cost of the hobby. Shouldn't take much more than 3 to 4 weeks before we see this practically fossilized equine miraculously resurrected.
andrechapelonThis is off topic, but that reminds me. Where did the Wright Brothers get their pilot's licenses? For that matter, who certified that Matthias Baldwin actually knew anything about building steam locomotives?
To answer this OO topic---Baldwin wouldn't have needed the silly thing---LOL!!
Harry Partch, a 20th century composer of experimental/classical pieces and instrument designer( bass marimba et al) used to go around talking about dance schools set up in reaction to 'classical'---read--ossified--ideas/methods---that soon became THEMSELVES ossified, or 'set in their own ways/means'. Thus the circle completes itself-------
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
blownout cylinder andrechapelonJust who are these self-appointed prototype authorities of whom you speak? If they know more about the prototype than anyone else, then they are authorities regardless of who appointed them to the position. Even if one free-lances, one can benefit by a wide and deep knowledge of the prototype (see Bill Darnaby, Koester in the age of Allegheny Midland, Alan McLellan et. al). Oh, I forget, these are also self-appointed authorities and therefore to be ignored. I see. In order to satisfy those 'experts' on who qualifies as a prototyping expert we are going to have to find a school/university that can offer a certificate program/ grad program on locomotive history/Industrial archeology. And then watch the equine plumage fly over what school does the program------I can see this coming a mile away-------
andrechapelonJust who are these self-appointed prototype authorities of whom you speak? If they know more about the prototype than anyone else, then they are authorities regardless of who appointed them to the position. Even if one free-lances, one can benefit by a wide and deep knowledge of the prototype (see Bill Darnaby, Koester in the age of Allegheny Midland, Alan McLellan et. al). Oh, I forget, these are also self-appointed authorities and therefore to be ignored.
I see. In order to satisfy those 'experts' on who qualifies as a prototyping expert we are going to have to find a school/university that can offer a certificate program/ grad program on locomotive history/Industrial archeology. And then watch the equine plumage fly over what school does the program------I can see this coming a mile away-------
Naturally, any school/university offering such a course would have to be accredited. Who's going to accredit the school? People who actually have first-hand knowledge? I doubt it. They won't actually have the necessary certification to do the accreditation.
This is off topic, but that reminds me. Where did the Wright Brothers get their pilot's licenses? For that matter, who certified that Matthias Baldwin actually knew anything about building steam locomotives?
You got THAT right! I didn't even consider if a loco was actually made in a proper road name or if it had the correct plow or dynamic brakes before I joined this forum. If I saw it at my LHS and liked it and had the $$$ I just bought it. Now that I've become more of a discerning buyer, it's almost taken some of the "fun" out of it.
I guess that's why the hobby has never been "fun" for me. My first issue of MR was the August, 1957 issue. There was an article on the Houston Model Railroad Club. One of the members had an SP 4-10-2. Unfortunately, that "model" was equipped with a tender appropriate only for an SP GS-4 or GS-6. Even at the tender age of 11, I knew that the 4-10-2's didn't use that tender. That kind of knowledge just ruined the hobby for me for years afterward.
That and Athearn's HO scale F7 answer to the Bell X-1 (the 1:1 model flown by Chuck Yeager in 1947).
CNJ831 The sad joke in all of this is that, prior to the rise of Internet forums, 90% of hobbyist really didn't know or care all that much whether their rollingstock was absolutely accurate or not and therefore relatively inexpensive, more or less generic, equipment was perfectly acceptable to the majority of modelers. If you wanted free-standing grabs or ladders, different doors, or see-through runningboards to match some prototype, you added them yourself...because you were actually a modeler.
The sad joke in all of this is that, prior to the rise of Internet forums, 90% of hobbyist really didn't know or care all that much whether their rollingstock was absolutely accurate or not and therefore relatively inexpensive, more or less generic, equipment was perfectly acceptable to the majority of modelers. If you wanted free-standing grabs or ladders, different doors, or see-through runningboards to match some prototype, you added them yourself...because you were actually a modeler.
Andre, will you ever get it through your head that the prices of items bought with disposal income can not be adjusted through the years based on the CPI? There never have been any model trains in the CPI's market basket, nor have I ever seen them considered as among the "necessities". These are two separate categories or areas. If other items purchased with disposal income are any indication, than calculations for adjusting the prices of model trains through the years must be only a faction of the regular CPI.
When will you get it through your head that it doesn't matter whether or not model railroading products are included in the CPI? What matters is the relationship between MRR prices the prices of everything else. If that relationship remains stable (which has been the case overall), then hobby items are no more expensive than they have ever been on a relative basis.
You are also forgetting that 50 years ago, the choice was essentially between O and HO. S scale had minimal commercial support. OO was defunct for all practical purposes, N was just on the horizon, and nobody was thinking of a scale as small as 1/220 There were no such things as the scales that are currently used with 45mm gauge track (at least not on a commercial basis). Now you can buy off-the shelf live steam in 1/32 scale, S scale has more commercial support than at any time in the past, and N scale, which was non-existent is now the second most popular scale in this country. More stuff in multiple scales is available than at any time in the history of the hobby. Not only that, but more information about the prototype is available as well. Yet you are in the process of composing a funeral dirge for the hobby.
Regardless, as I pointed out upstream, the fact is that the average hobbyist bases what is accurate on the opinions of others, not through his personal knowledge and this is nothing new. You should know this if you've been in the hobby as long as you claim. Likewise, the question of precise accuracy of models was not even that great a consideration in the hobby prior to the rise of Internet forums. Those who were diehard prototypers modified existing models to suit them but the majority of guys were quite satisfied with their more generic examples...obtained at very reasonable prices. It was on the Internet forums that hobbyists were told by various self appointed prototype authorities of inaccuracies in new and existing models and essentially convinced that they must have far more accurate models.
Relatively strict accuracy wasn't in great demand because real knowledge of the prototype wasn't that widespread. It's easy to be satisfied with generic items vaguely resembling railroad items if you don't know any better. I was satisfied with Athearn cars painted in Daylight colors until I bought a copy of Richard's Wright's encyclopedic work on the subject way back when.
Just who are these self-appointed prototype authorities of whom you speak? If they know more about the prototype than anyone else, then they are authorities regardless of who appointed them to the position. Even if one free-lances, one can benefit by a wide and deep knowledge of the prototype (see Bill Darnaby, Koester in the age of Allegheny Midland, Alan McLellan et. al). Oh, I forget, these are also self-appointed authorities and therefore to be ignored.
Would you have us return to that "Golden Age" when steam locomotive models were lumps of flash infested metal and Athearn's "Blomberg" truck bore only the tiniest resemblance to an actual Blomberg and the Athearn's "Hi-F" drive F7 had two speeds, stop and high sub-sonic (regardless of direction)?
andrechapelon The supposed need for ever increasing accuracy in our models has been and is currently driven by a relatively small faction of highly vocal individuals in the hobby, the consequence of which has been to caused the manufacturers to attempt to offer ever nearer museum quality models...at prices that are progressively moving beyond the range of the average hobbyist. Horse droppings! The Rapido O-B's are roughly the equivalent of $10.80 in 1963 dollars. If you bought an old Walthers metsal and wood passenger car kit, the superdetail kit, trucks, couplers, interior kit, etc., you'd be pretty close to the $10.80. And what's the matter with highly accurate models? It sure beats the crudely cast lumps that vaguely resembled railroad equipment that we had back in the day. In any case, the "average" modeler (whoever he is) has a range of choices we could only dream about 40-50 years ago. Andre
The supposed need for ever increasing accuracy in our models has been and is currently driven by a relatively small faction of highly vocal individuals in the hobby, the consequence of which has been to caused the manufacturers to attempt to offer ever nearer museum quality models...at prices that are progressively moving beyond the range of the average hobbyist.
Horse droppings! The Rapido O-B's are roughly the equivalent of $10.80 in 1963 dollars. If you bought an old Walthers metsal and wood passenger car kit, the superdetail kit, trucks, couplers, interior kit, etc., you'd be pretty close to the $10.80.
And what's the matter with highly accurate models? It sure beats the crudely cast lumps that vaguely resembled railroad equipment that we had back in the day.
In any case, the "average" modeler (whoever he is) has a range of choices we could only dream about 40-50 years ago.
When accuracy serves to drive the price of models beyond the ability of most hobbyists to afford the item outright, or requires saving up months and months of a hobby budget to fund the purchase, that isn't great for the hobby. Rather, it drives people away.
So, is a single train of only half a dozen passenger cars really worth around $500, especially after paying maybe $350 for the loco to pull it? To some, I suppose it is, but it's a small minority. Nevertheless, what it does is to establish a yet higher plateau as a jumping off point for the pricing of someone else's next model. Manufacturers will push this as far as the market will bear and I can't really blame them. This is what we've been seeing for at least a decade now. Rapido's next offering is a new caboose, chock full of accurate interior detail that is essentially invisible to the viewer...for $60. How soon will it be before typical passenger equipment exceeds $100 per and freight cars $50 - less than three years, four at the outside? As I pointed out earlier, this is just the way brass evolved and you see where that facet of the hobby is today.
CNJ831
Andre- I'm thinking that, for many, the question would be more along the lines of---how close up do I get to see any of those details?---and if the answer ends up---3 feet--then we definitly may have an issue here.
But, I find that sometimes---I like sittin' here and just looking at the thing up close---mind, this is in N scale yet---and yes, if I want to buy the thing, I may save---ohno ohno---for that very loke.
Some of this angst experienced recently may also be part of that demand curve getting more picky and, well, getting addressed------all to the better for the tin hat brigade, I guess.
And we all know that that is all ----equine plumage-----
Dave Nelson- I think I even have a record of his somewhere in my collection as well---dang one that!!
I think this thread proves you can get heated and NOT get locked up/out---let's hope it stays this way
This thread has gotten rather heated at times. Interesting but heated.
Anyone else remember the storytelling comedian Myron Cohen who used to appear regularly on the old Ed Sullivan show telling jokes and stories in a heavy Yiddish accent? One of his better stories reminds of this topic.
The woman is at the butcher shop and asks for lamb chops. The butcher says they're $6 a pound.
"$6 a pound" she yells. "That's outrageous. Schwartz has them for $5 a pound."
"So buy from Schwartz" the butcher shrugs.
"Well Schwartz is all out" she says.
The butcher replies "To tell the truth, if I was all out, they'd be $4 a pound"
Dave Nelson
Don7--I'm not buying them simply because I'm not modelling that line/service what-have-you BUT I have suggested to some people after seeing the things that they should look into them. One already went after a Turbo unit....
To this little puppy I'd say that Rapido is the best when it comes to detail---
don7,Well, I can't speak for most, but I'm getting 4 cars in the first run. I would purchase more, but my hobby money is a little restrained these days.
Normally, I would not buy $75 passenger cars. For example, I don't buy Walthers passenger cars, Branchline cars or Rapido cars when I'm buying them for my club's home RR. I buy Con-Cor & Rivarossi cars at approx. $10 ea. at train shows. I don't really care about being accurate or even being all that much concerned for quality when I'm buying for the club. These cars need to be a little tougher than most because they get abused a little bit more than one's own stuff. I also need some 20 or so just to make two trains worth, so it adds up quickly. But for all their downsides, these cars are 85' long and look decent from a distance, so I pretty much don't care.
However, for my New Haven collection and my NH layout, these O-B cars are a "must have". As I said, these cars were over 1/4 of the NH's fleet in the 1950's, and these cars ran on the NH from 1934 to 1968 (and beyond on the PC, MBTA, etc.). If you want to accurately model the NH's mainline (which I'm doing), you need these cars.
I have paid $75-$100 for a brass version of these cars (I have a Grill and a 10-window coach), and the $75 one was without trucks. The Rapido's blow these brass versions away.
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
It is surprising that most of those who posted on this topic did not indicate if they would or would not purchase passenger cars at these prices.
I myself will not. I can and do peruse that evil auction site and continue to accumulate mainly Walthers cars, both heavy weight and smooth-sides. I usually end up paying around the $25 mark per car, have also purchased a number of BLI CA coaches which I consider premium grade for around $40.00.
Perhaps the new coaches coming on the market will be heavily discounted as some posters have indicated.
Paul3In order for the plastic hobby market to go down the same path as the brass market, there would need to be another type of production that would undercut plastic. Perhaps some kind of 3D solids protocasting? You know, you download a file of a GP9, send to to an manufacturer that makes one-shots, and a week later you have a finished product that's cheaper than Atlas/Athearn/Kato? I dunno, something like that.
AH NUTZ!! Now you've done did it!!---I have a friend who is into that very thing--doing 3D Protocasting---He's got this idea of using a cnc milling machine that we bought and doing something like that. There are scads of these things/ideas flapping about right now so who knows when that might occur---
blownout cylinder Which brings up the question of cost vs the enjoyment of a DIY. I've been telling people about a certain gentleman in his late 80's who built his own home back in the 50's.He can look at the peopple around him and ask them whether they done anything like that and get the catching flies look--"Huh? How'd you do dat?". This fellow did everything himself---now you could be accused of being strange because-"-well---y'know---the pro's do it so much better--". And I'm not even talking about all the red tape either-- But it is true--I enjoy doing the dang things myself--regardless of how much it may end up costing--(last one I done cost me about $2.45 more than the Silver version--big whoop)
Which brings up the question of cost vs the enjoyment of a DIY. I've been telling people about a certain gentleman in his late 80's who built his own home back in the 50's.He can look at the peopple around him and ask them whether they done anything like that and get the catching flies look--"Huh? How'd you do dat?". This fellow did everything himself---now you could be accused of being strange because-"-well---y'know---the pro's do it so much better--". And I'm not even talking about all the red tape either--
But it is true--I enjoy doing the dang things myself--regardless of how much it may end up costing--(last one I done cost me about $2.45 more than the Silver version--big whoop)
bc:
I've got a friend, a welder and industrial maintenance man, who is building a garden tractor somewhat like the old Economy out of various items. I've been, er, shanghaied as consulting engineer for this project.
Reactions have been interesting. At first, I thought he was nuts. People at the salvage yards always asked what the auto parts were for, and then they asked "why"? His answer.."Because I can".
He told that to one old-timer, and it pleased the guy to no end. He said he remembered that kind of thing, from years ago, but he hadn't seen anybody build a "hoopie" for ages.
"Because I can". It's a good answer. Why do we climb mountains or write books?
emdgp92,Just a toy, eh? Then why even bother to detail it or paint it? It's just a toy, right? You seem to be spending an awful amount of time building these kinds of toys, then detailing, painting and then talking about them (1200 posts in 6 years). Why don't you just buy some nice Athearn passenger car toys? They are less than half the cost of the ECW toys, and the money & time saved would be better spent elsewhere, right? Sheesh.
Maybe it's just me, but I tend to get annoyed when folks downplay my hobby as something meant for children to play with or something that's unimportant (the definition of the word "toy"). It's obvious that it's not as important as family, career and health, but that doesn't it make the hobby unimportant, at least to me. YMMV
George V,Just go back and read old letters to the editor in old MR's and you'll see plenty of kvetching about everything (6v vs. 12v, wood vs. plastic, scratch vs. kit, etc.).
CNJ,Hmm... I was into "serious" model railroading by 1990, and I didn't get my first PC modem until 1996. I can assure you that I wanted accurate NH models and not generic models long before I discovered internet groups. I guess I was just one of the 10%'ers, right?
About the brass market, I think the brass market it dying because plastic is killing it. Brass has always been more expensive (when those models you're talking about were $20 or $30, how much was an Athearn F7A? $5 or less?), but if you wanted something specific that plastic didn't make, then you had to buy brass just like today. But back then, that was the majority of the prototype because plastic only made the most generic stuff out there to cover the widest possible market to recoup their investment.
Now that high quality plastic diesel locos of almost every kind are being made at 1/5th the cost of a new brass diesel, and when high quality "hybrid" steam (w/ DCC and sound) is being made at 1/3rd to 1/4th the price of new brass steam, the market for brass just went "poof". It's not that they priced themselves out of the market, they just got undercut like never before.
For example, before the BLI version, if I wanted an RTR NH I-5 4-6-4 model in HO scale, I had to buy brass. Both NJ/Custom Brass and W&R imported versions of this loco. In the mid-1990's, the early-1980's NJCB was going for around $400 unpainted, $500 painted at Springfield. The 1990's W&R version started at $800 and went up from there. Recently, Broadway Limited came out with their hybrid I-5, and I got mine with DCC and sound for $359. Shortly thereafter, PSC released a new brass I-5 for something like $1000 to $1400 or so (without DCC or sound), and BLI even produced an all-brass version for around the same price. Why would anyone buy a 4-digit price tag for a brass loco when one can get a hybrid for $359 that has equal quality and performance? Now, if the hybrid version didn't exist, I think more people would have bought either PSC or BLI brass, but the existance of the hybrid just had to kill their sales.
In order for the plastic hobby market to go down the same path as the brass market, there would need to be another type of production that would undercut plastic. Perhaps some kind of 3D solids protocasting? You know, you download a file of a GP9, send to to an manufacturer that makes one-shots, and a week later you have a finished product that's cheaper than Atlas/Athearn/Kato? I dunno, something like that.
blownout cylinder CNJ831The sad joke in all of this is that, prior to the rise of Internet forums, 90% of hobbyist really didn't know or care all that much whether their rollingstock was absolutely accurate or not and therefore relatively inexpensive, more or less generic, equipment was perfectly acceptable to the majority of modelers. If you wanted free-standing grabs or ladders, different doors, or see-through runningboards to match some prototype, you added them yourself...because you were actually a modeler. I'm kind of puzzled by the issue of why the idea that one could take an ATLAS trainman and do the modelling part themselves is now a problem. I'm thinking of doing something along that line with the addition of plows, MU's and all that for the fronts of the RS's I have--and I had people telling me that it was too much and why not just get them RTR?---mmm CNJ831Be careful just how far you push the prototypical accuracy factor. Folks may be driving the hobby itself down the same road brass has already traveled. Problem here is that one can see this occuring already in some fields--this point was raised in another thread---re RTR vs kits---
CNJ831The sad joke in all of this is that, prior to the rise of Internet forums, 90% of hobbyist really didn't know or care all that much whether their rollingstock was absolutely accurate or not and therefore relatively inexpensive, more or less generic, equipment was perfectly acceptable to the majority of modelers. If you wanted free-standing grabs or ladders, different doors, or see-through runningboards to match some prototype, you added them yourself...because you were actually a modeler.
I'm kind of puzzled by the issue of why the idea that one could take an ATLAS trainman and do the modelling part themselves is now a problem. I'm thinking of doing something along that line with the addition of plows, MU's and all that for the fronts of the RS's I have--and I had people telling me that it was too much and why not just get them RTR?---mmm
CNJ831Be careful just how far you push the prototypical accuracy factor. Folks may be driving the hobby itself down the same road brass has already traveled.
Problem here is that one can see this occuring already in some fields--this point was raised in another thread---re RTR vs kits---
Actually guys,A lot of modelers still add details to their RTR cars and locomotives.Modeling is not dead by a long shot...It has change in some areas like weathering,adding mu hoses etc...
And CNJ831,I would say 90% still buy generic cars and locomotives due to their limited hobby budget and modeling style...Ever wonder WHY Atlas really introduce the Trainman line? The TRUE answer to that question is only known by Atlas and they ain't tellin'...
110% modeling isn't as popular as many may think or may boast about on forums.
Speaking of forums..I know several modelers that don't bother with forums or yahoo groups because of the bickering..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
TA462 For the cost of the extra detail items needed though it would be much higher then the average cost of a Silver series with the detail included when your finished. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so because your going to eventually end up with a better model and your having the enjoyment of building something.
In my novel one of my protagonists goes into the local saloon and finds that the proprietor of fair establishment has raised the price of lunch and a beer from a short bit (10¢) to a long bit (15¢)--that, my friend, is a whoppin' 50%. He remarks to the keep as he flips three half dimes onto the bar that "I'll have to sell two cows just to pay for this lunch!"
I have related how in the early '70 I anticipated a new production run of brass diesel locomotives from Pacific Fast Mail; when I first got in the hobby ten years earlier these diesels were running somewhere in the vicinity of $29.95, a price that had been beyond my reach in those heady days. The new production came in at $79.95 and that put them as far out of my reach as they had been a decade earlier. Some NScalers will remember how, in the 1960's JC lowered the price of his Sekisui/Kato PAs from $29.95 to $16.95; these lokes were considered to be state-of-the art in those days. Anybody know of any $16.95 NScale diesels available on the market today?
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Maybe they are trying the pricing technique that state of the art electronics uses. Early innovators pay the highest prices ( the guys that must own the latest and greatest equipment ) , and this helps pay the engineering design costs. Then, as the prices begin to drop, more buyers enter the market and prices begin to drop more as production costs are lowered. Just hang in there, there will be sales.
betamaxSome companies decide they don't want to make anything less than a premium product. They put a lot of time and effort into designing and building the product, and the price reflects that. Rapido has decided on that strategy. Making a cheaper version would damage their brand, because people have come to expect a certain level of product from Rapido. Rapido is probably quite happy with the volume of sales they have, and any increase in volume from a cheaper product may in fact not be worth it to them.Then the usual argument comes up that Brand X is just as good but less money. But it is not a valid argument, because Brand X designed their product to sell for half what a Rapido product does. But it is not the same as a very accurate model designed from the start to be very accurate, and whose price reflects the time and effort that went into creating and producing it. Some people just can't grasp that. How often have we seen paint schemes on locomotives that never would have had them? Or cabooses that looked nothing like the ones owned by the company whose name is printed on the side? Like everything else in life, you get what you pay for. Be it rolling stock or digital cameras.
Some companies decide they don't want to make anything less than a premium product. They put a lot of time and effort into designing and building the product, and the price reflects that. Rapido has decided on that strategy. Making a cheaper version would damage their brand, because people have come to expect a certain level of product from Rapido. Rapido is probably quite happy with the volume of sales they have, and any increase in volume from a cheaper product may in fact not be worth it to them.
Then the usual argument comes up that Brand X is just as good but less money. But it is not a valid argument, because Brand X designed their product to sell for half what a Rapido product does. But it is not the same as a very accurate model designed from the start to be very accurate, and whose price reflects the time and effort that went into creating and producing it. Some people just can't grasp that.
How often have we seen paint schemes on locomotives that never would have had them? Or cabooses that looked nothing like the ones owned by the company whose name is printed on the side?
Like everything else in life, you get what you pay for. Be it rolling stock or digital cameras.
Jason Shron - President - Rapido Trains Inc. - RapidoTrains.comMy HO scale Kingston Sub layout: Facebook.com/KingstonSub
TA462I believe Rapido's reputation was built on trying to be the best in Canadian prototype equipment. To be the best of the best. They are known for their detail, just look at the crowds around their product displays at shows and any Rapido thread on any model train forum. The majority of the people out there all agree that their products are the best of the best. Even their customer service is one of the best but thats off topic. If Rapido was to go out and make a less detailed product then what point would that serve? Like Jason has already pointed out, a less detailed product would only be a few dollars less so why even bother. Look at Atlas and their Trainman line. Sure their Trainman loco's run the same as their Classic, Silver and Gold series but with far less detail. Is the couple dollars saved on production worth it? You have people now buying Trainman loco's thinking they are just as good as the Classic, Silver and Gold series. Are they? I don't think so and I feel sorry for all the new modellers that are being suckered into buying them because they heard about Atlas quality and detail. I can't tell you how many times I've spoke to people at shows who truly believe that their Trainman GP38 is just as good as my Atlas Silver series GP40 they see pulling cars on my club layout. It's like they are looking down at me thinking I'm the sucker because I bought a more expensive unit, lol. In reality EVERYBODY wants the best and in my opinion if Rapido was to deviate from what made them popular then it would be like taking a step backwards.
CNJ831 Be careful just how far you push the prototypical accuracy factor. Folks may be driving the hobby itself down the same road brass has already traveled.
Be careful just how far you push the prototypical accuracy factor. Folks may be driving the hobby itself down the same road brass has already traveled.
C:
I think the hobby itself will be fine, but I can definitely see the neo-RTR headed down that road - they get popular because you got more model for the same price, or not much more, but as cost goes up this starts going away. I think a lot of the increased detail on brass was a way of hanging on to the customers, when the price difference became greater, as much as it drove the price difference, and maybe we're seeing this with neo-RTR as well.