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Elliot's Trackside Diner IX Locked

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Posted by LSWrr on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 8:44 PM

I placed a second order through Litchfield Station dot com this week and they emailed me asking who referred me to their site because they wish to thank that person.

One of you here referred me to them, but I forgot who.  So if you could shoot me an email with your name and email I’ll let them know.  I don’t know if you’re going to get a discount or what…

 

Lee

 

BM1 Lee Soule USCG (ret)
 L.S.&W Railroad Serving the Lower Great Lakes

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Posted by Robby P. on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 8:25 PM

 Ahh the wife went to bed, I'm freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.  Um...... I think I just saw her walk into the Diner Whistling

 She did give me some good news, while I hope so.  Where she works at is located beside a buildings that you store stuff in.  The owner is cleaning out the ones people haven't paid in months, and is throwing away stuff.  Her supervisor was talking to the guy and saw a box of train stuff.  The sup., said that a teacher of mine husband does trains.  Well the guy said I can have what he finds.  Well Jessica (the wife) will get the box tomorrow, and see whats inside.  The guy did say its bigger than HO, so who knows.

  I will get some pictures of it tomorrow, and show what I have.

  Well everybody I guess I will see what happens on ESPN, and go to bed.  Let me see if I can sneak by.  "Maybe if I throw a pie, and that will distract her.  I hope Jeff doesn't mind, and I know Barry won't".

 "Rust, whats not to love?"      

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Posted by JimRCGMO on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 8:22 PM

Evening, Chloe - I'll have a hot fudge sundae and a coffee, please. Thanks!

Well, reading some of the posts, I decided to look Missouri's law's position, and found they have what's called a Castle Law - if in one's own dwelling, retreat is not required (though if you retreat to another part of the house before attacking back, it enhances your defense if it ever comes to that. Missouri also extends the Castle Law position to one's vehicle (which I guess means if someone comes at you in your car/truck/tank.... that you are allowed to defend yourself. Cowboy Of course, I had heard that if the crook's inside your home, he or she is fair game (and if they're outside, shoot first and then drag 'em inside before the police arrive...Do I have that right?Whistling) But since my firearm skills are abysmally poor (so I don't own a firearm), I figure I should use my long legs and get the heck out of Dodge instead...Confused

Chris, you forgot the

Banged Head MRR'ing Laws of Layout Planning and Design: Banged Head

  1. There is NEVER 'too much space' for your layout.
  2. The layout design will expand to 125 percent of your available space.
  3. What you think will fit into a specific amount of space, won't...
  4. When you try to build a given design, you will find that it over-fills the layout space.

Hope that helps...Smile,Wink, & Grin My own suggestion would be - decide which concept for your layout you like the best of what you mentioned, aim for that and tweak that design within a scale space until you get something close to what you like (or that can give you the 'feel' of it). A lot to be said for design software, or for scale drawings with pencil and paper. I recall some noted author (don't recall who right now) who suggested (mabye it was Malcom Furlow? Dave Frary? dunno...) making a reduced scale mock-up with paper and/or clay. (Or was that John Armstrong?.... Hmmm....Confused)

Sam, in addition to running a fan to air the place out, you probably should not operate a vehicle or heavy machinery for a while. Wow!!

Lee, I saw that about Texas (having more lenient laws about use of deadly force) when I went looking for Missouri's position on the issue. You are probably right about the reason, too. Wink

Today at work I was supposed to have four client follow-up appointments (intended to ensure that the client shows up for their doctors' appointments, among other things). Only one showed up (15-20 minutes early) of the four. And that one, I get to write up a mini-intake and a letter for the client's probation and parole officer (kinda like "So-and-so showed up for his/her appointment, and these are my recommendations for treatment...") to confirm to their judge that the person did what the court said they had to do (come see us).

Oh yeah, last night as I was about to head out for a group I co-lead, heard some kind of loudness and a scraping sound. So this a.m. I had to arrange a ride to work, call for a tow of the car to the dealer, and arrange payment terms for the dealer (needed something connected to the catalytic converter fixed/re-welded or such). About $142 with the labor and the $50 tow fee included. Sigh But at least it wasn't the transmission, which was what I thought from looking under the car last night. Hey, I'll give thanks for little things. Angel

Well, I'd better wind things up here and head for home. Hopefully, things are improving for some of you Diners, since I didn't notice a lot of health issues being reported. Keep up the healthy work, Diners! Thumbs Up Prayers will continue for those needing comfort, healing and/or layout space.

 

Blessings and prayers,

Jim in Cape Girardeau

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 8:13 PM

blownout cylinder
Jeff-After talking with the officer in charge of this case I got a better idea about it now. I'll get to continue what I do---I'm big enough that my shadow does it to them!!LOL!!!Smile,Wink, & Grin

What evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows! (giving away my age there).

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Posted by GMTRacing on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 7:41 PM

PC - thanks for the update and hang in there. The news on your son is superb.  J.R.

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Posted by pcarrell on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 7:39 PM

GMTRacing

Phillip - our prayers for your wife. By the way how is your leg doing and how's the son? (not been around much you see and may have missed some news plus I'm just nosey).

The wife and I appreciate the prayers.  We went for a walk this evening, but she was pretty wore out when we got back.  Didn't go all that far either.  As for the leg, it's still sore a little, and the bump is still there.  I'm sure it'll be back.  I'm watching it.  As for my son.....he actually got to be a starter the last game!  When they run suicides, he comes in the middle of the pack most of the time and once in a while he does better then that.  Last year he was dead last by a mile EVERY time.  His confidence and self image is big time boosted.

How long til the tracks up there open?  I know you guys are probably packing up the trailers now!

Philip
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Posted by GMTRacing on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 7:27 PM

Good Evening All,

    A long but productive day. Temps are moderating, probably no snow this week. Might even see the sun eventually. I'll have a bit of cheese and some Beaujolais please. Time to kick back a bit.

Phillip - our prayers for your wife. By the way how is your leg doing and how's the son? (not been around much you see and may have missed some news plus I'm just nosey).

Jerry - I like the signals. Besides the ladders, what did you use for the tops?

Rob - I think the extended incline is a better bet than the helix. Instead of the train grinding away in the dark, the incline can be a usable part of the layout and a whole lot easier to access. For sure with a limited space layout, more scenery is a good thing.

Sam - did you decide which of the switching layouts you'll use? How about the feeder and bus issue?

  Not sure what all this nonsense about retreat is. Suffice it to say that if I'm still breathing I'm not endangering my family by allowing someone to invade my home. And if I stop them before the legal definition of invasion, T.S. Glad things turned out ok, but that was too close for comfort in my book.

  I'm thinking about trying a shelf layout in the new shop but I'm not sure if I'll have more than a foot or so of width available. Needs to be HO as I want to get started setting up equipment again. Perhaps part of an engine service facility? What can I do with a foot of width and twelve to fourteeen feet of length? Ideas appreciated. I'll be in the back for a bit, Catch ya later, J.R.

 

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Posted by pcarrell on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 7:24 PM

Duty to Retreat

American:  Match force for force, unless in my house.  Then the invader will retreat in a hail of bullets.    If he doesn't retreat fast enough?  Guess he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Gotta protect the family!

English:  Who knows, but if they show up in my house in the middle of the night, see above! Big Smile

 

And I guess this is what I get for not showing the love of Christ.........Eat up everyone!

Philip
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Posted by Packer on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 7:16 PM

Well I finished one of the boxcars I am doing, but the other one ran into a snag.

Here's the finished one, a P2K 50 double door automobile box that I spent about an hour putting together (not including paint drying time, but including weathering) without the instructions Shock since I got it as a freebie without instructions.


Here's the athearn BB one that I hit a snag with:

I went to the store and picked up a rattle can of paint that cap matched it. When I sprayed it it turned out reddish. Sad So plan B, cover the lettering with masking tape and do the whole thing so it looks like a late PRR patch job. Pics on that when it finishes.

I managed to trade a pair of AAR sideframes I have for flexi-coils, so I should be able to get my SW1500s back together short order especially now that I'm starting to make my own grab irons. My SD24s should be here anyday, so I'll be looking for stuff to patch out the CB&Q unit (sorry to the Q fans out there), I haven't done decals before so it'll be a learning experience (will come in handy when I get those C424s together and painted).

About that whole "duty to retreat" stuff, if someone broke into my house; they'd be lucky to leave in 1 piece in a bag.

Joe and Sawyer, I think a lawnmower would be just as effective. That or totally gut it and use it for a wreck scene or scrap yard.

Vincent

Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....

2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.

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Posted by pcarrell on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 7:14 PM

blownout cylinder

PC-I picked some of that Mortile stuff. I think it will do better than the PITA stuff I'm using now!

I hope it works as well for you as it does for me.  I quite like it.

Philip
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Posted by Heartland Division CB&Q on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 6:59 PM

Good evening...

I have said before, but I'll say it again. It's refreshing to see young people in the Forum. It is encouraging to see the hobby passed down through the generations. Also, of course, it's good to see the young people involved in constructive activities instead of destructive alternatives. My one advice continues to relate to personal finance. It's more fun to build a model than it is to own a model. I encourage people to have a budget and stick to it. Cheers to you young people!  

Jeff .... I don't know what to think about the US vs. England laws. ... Around here certain individuals have been known to employ "buckshot therapy" to modify behavior of theives. ... In fact, the area here once was known as "Shotgun Hollow" prior to the invasion of outsiders.

Ryan asked...."What instrument did you play?" upon reading I, too, was in a marching band. Are you ready for this? .....I played....... the tuba..... Yes sir. The finest young man in our part of the land was the one who played the tuba in the high school band!  ....... By the way, my musical talent back then was absolutely zilch........ as it has always been for me.... If a correct note emerged out of the bell of my tuba at the correct instant of time....... believe me ...that was a completely random event... It had nothing to do with talent at all !!! .....Now, it's not that I did not give a hoot...I did...Believe me, I gave lots of hoots. (said Garry, holding no bars.) .... It's not that I did not try.... I practiced lots and lots and lots. .... I carried the tuba thing on the school bus to practice at home while taking an extra seat on a crowded bus...(Fortunately, I was one of the "big kids" and nobody tried to fight for the extra seat.) ...My poor band teacher......I frustrated the dickens out of him....He worked and worked with me....(He was my favorite teacher.)....but... but ....with all of that indvidual attention....and all of that practicing...... One would think I would have developed at least a little talent.... Oh well. ...Good thing I did not desire a career as a professional musician...I respect those who are, but I have no clue how they can do it....

Ryan ...do you now regret asking that question?

 

 

GARRY

HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR

EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU

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Posted by New Haven I-5 on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 6:47 PM

jeffrey-wimberly

 

New Haven I-5: Check your PM's. You'll find something of major interest.Smile

Thanks.

- Luke

Modeling the Southern Pacific in the 1960's-1980's

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Posted by ns3010 on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 5:47 PM

Packers#1

oh, the fix to your brother's engine, in my eyes, is a 30 pound sledge hammer and two sets of protective goggles. Whistling

Seriously though, I have no idea how to fix your engine. I usually stay away from bachmann now.

oh, and I just noticed. you joined on Nov. 22, which is my b-day, lol.

A maul would be better!Tongue

Spectrum isn't bad. My F40 has gone through almost everything and still runs.

I don't know if anyone is familiar with Trainiac Productions on youtube (youtube.com/trainiacproductions), but I noticed that they joined utube on my bday, June 17th.

Anyone else who uses E-Z track knows that the rerailers are used as crossings. On the ends, the raised road surface tapers off, which is unprototypical (the full with of the road continues through the crossing and ends perpendicular to the rails). I found a solution. Take Woodland Scenics paving tape (the foam stuff) and taper it to match the angle of the rerailer. Trim until it lines up with the sides of the roadway. Paint it (black for asphalt, gray for concrete) and you have a realistic road surface. Two strips laid parallel is the exact same as the width of the rerailer. It is low enough to avoid catching coupler trip pins and there is room for flanges.

Have a great evening. Prayers for all.

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Posted by blownout cylinder on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 5:24 PM

Good evenin' What happened here? I left and we were on pg15 and I now have to go through how many more posts? YEEESSH!!

Took a look at the back door. It looks like the dead bolt we put in did the trick although now I'm going to have to redo the door frame. Oh well. I'm just glad that's all he did!! I thought the neighbour was off duty, but he wasn't apparently someone reported a prowler in the neighbourhood and he fit the description--he broke into another house down the street though---Grumpy--I guess my shadow with the machete when I turned the light on scared the bejeebers out of him---hopefully he'll get some help to clean up his life---

Anyhoooo-got a bit of a heads up from work--I'll be only doing three days a week at 6 hrs/day. I've gone down from 30hrs/wk. Oh---I'll go into another sideline I've been doing a bit of recently--do it on my own---

nik.n.--I'm almost thinking the same as Sawyer but I think maybe modelling a RIP track? Or a scrap yard that salvages train parts?-----

Jeff-After talking with the officer in charge of this case I got a better idea about it now. I'll get to continue what I do---I'm big enough that my shadow does it to them!!LOL!!!Smile,Wink, & Grin

PC-I picked some of that Mortile stuff. I think it will do better than the PITA stuff I'm using now!

Chloe--I'll have a Grilled Salmon with Asparagus Salad and a large RBF. Think I'll finish that off with a Strawberry/Rhubarb Pie and a bucket of cafffeine as well pleaseDinner--I'm going to the window booth and watch some trains---

Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry

I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...

http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/

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Posted by Packers#1 on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:09 PM

nik .n

I hate political corruption SoapBox Two judges in the county next to mine was charged for corruption. They sent kids MY age to certain juvenile centers for money. 

On a less serious note...

My little brother picked up a Bachmann Union Pacfic engine at a thrift store. it is in deplorable condition. Most of the handrails are missing and all of the steps are broken off. where the yellow is supposed to be there is gold. It kinda looks like a GP-40, Does anyone know if this came out of a train set? Or is it an older loco? It also has a "Cartrige Motor", You know, the motor frame and the gearcase are one unit. Also only one set of trucks are powerd.Dead Any advice on replaceing the motor, handrails and steps? HELP! 

 

nice, I'm 14, I don't know how old you are.

oh, the fix to your brother's engine, in my eyes, is a 30 pound sledge hammer and two sets of protective goggles. Whistling

Seriously though, I have no idea how to fix your engine. I usually stay away from bachmann now.

oh, and I just noticed. you joined on Nov. 22, which is my b-day, lol.

Jim, thanks for the compliment on the paint scheme

Sawyer Berry

Clemson University c/o 2018

Building a protolanced industrial park layout

 

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Posted by AmanaMedic on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:04 PM

Trainman Sam

Chris:  Funny stuff my friend, only  because I understand the pain!!!  The layouts that I have on paper would be AWESOME in N or Z scale.  Unfortunately, I don't enjoy those scales, as I like to see a lot of detail on the engine, rollingstock, etc.. 

Yeah Sam, it WOULD be funny if it hadn't been completely preventable. Good old hindsight. IF I'd made a bunch of copies of the measured-out, drawn to scale diagrams...and started sketching to scale from the start; I coulda woulda saved a bunch of wasted time and effort.

Oh well... like I said in an earlier post: I may be a slow learner...but at least I'm a learner.

I already had to make major concessions to fit the part of Cedar Rapids I want to replicate, into the space availible. Koester's "LDE" concept is nice...and if I had the space, I'd go that route. But, reality being what it is (afterall, it is what it is...) I was willing to compress industries, relocate things, condense, reduce; and generally recreate it all as "Cedarapids."

Now... I may go with "Plan B:" a CB&Q branchline in SW Iowa in the late 60s in the Hamburg and Shenandoah, Iowa area. "Plan C" is a completely ficticious Iowa city served by the CNW and CCP that just happens to have some industries and businesses in common with Cedar Rapids. "Plan D" is to continue as a "Railroad Modeler" rather than a "Model Railroader." "Plan E" is to build a module or two...but I'm not aware of any modular clubs in the area. The ex-Rock Island car shop and roundhouse area would make a great module. The area around the former 9th Ave. SE tower would be good too. Connecting them as a working layout... 'eh, not so feasible. "Plan F" a variation on the CCP branch (ex-Milwaukee mainline) from the CCP main to Marion serving two cement plants, Nash Finch, a siding at Rockwell International for an occasional locomotive (RR electronics stuff), and a scrap yard and ag products place. Again, a LOT of compression would be necessary...and I'm none too crazy about trying to build the massive bridge over Indian Creek (in Marion).

Coulda

Shoulda

Woulda

Enough rambling, back to "work" I go. The athletic director of the school district I'm assigned to cover finally got back to me with vital data for an article I've been putting off since last week...so it's time to play newspaper writer again.

Chris

 

The Cedar cRapids Industrial Branch: Proudly Shipping Yesterday's CrunchBerries Tomorrow!

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 3:14 PM

 

Trainman Sam
Jeff:  How did you get the same post to show up twice???
I made one itsy, bitsy change in it that can't be seen unless you examine the two very, very closely.

 

New Haven I-5: Check your PM's. You'll find something of major interest.Smile

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
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Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
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beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


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Posted by Trainman Sam on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 2:56 PM

 

Chris:  Funny stuff my friend, only  because I understand the pain!!!  The layouts that I have on paper would be AWESOME in N or Z scale.  Unfortunately, I don't enjoy those scales, as I like to see a lot of detail on the engine, rollingstock, etc.. 

Jeff:  How did you get the same post to show up twice???

     Funny thing about me building this layout, I forgot to turn on the fan and open a window both yesterday and today, so I am pretty buzzed...  Won't do that again... I don't have very many brain cells left, and need every single one of them!!!  LOL

     Seriously though, make sure you use proper ventilation when doing projects.  Read the directions for any product you will be using, as quite a lot of them can cause serious damage to you and your system.  I'm lucky that this was just a headache and not something more deadly...

     This was only a test.  If this had been a real emergency, peope would be running past you screamming like 12 year old girls at a Jonas Brothers concert!!!

     Whoa, Public Service announcement over!!!  

Wow My ADD kicked in pretty fierce this time... I was in the middle of this post, got up to take care of something, and in themean time had an idea for a "test track" with a passing siding and now I come back and I still didn't get this message posted!   about an hour went by before I remembered I had this post just sitting on the screen!  WHUUPS!!!  But now I have a 7'L x 4"W board with what foamboard was left over from the main layout glued to it!  I am going to be able to have this piece as a program tack.

Sam

 May He bless you, guide you, and keep you safe on your journey through life!

 I Model the New Hope & Ivyland RR (Bucks County, PA)

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Posted by LSWrr on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 2:46 PM
Sam, actually I lived in TX for 3 years.  You can use deadly force to prevent a theft if the property is valued at $1,000.00 or more.  This goes back to the horse stealing days. 
Lee

 

BM1 Lee Soule USCG (ret)
 L.S.&W Railroad Serving the Lower Great Lakes

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 1:47 PM

 

 Duty to retreat:

American Law

Some American jurisdictions require that a person retreat from an attack, and allow the use of deadly force in self defense only when retreat is not possible or when retreat poses a danger to the person under attack. The duty to retreat is not universal, however. For example, police officers are not required to retreat when acting in the line of duty. Similarly, some courts have found no duty to retreat exists when victim is assaulted in a place where the victim has a right to be, such as within one's own home. State v. Allery, 101 Wash.2d 591, 682 P.2d 312 (1984). The Model Penal Code § 3.04(2)(b)(ii) suggests statutory language that also recognizes an exception to the usual duty to retreat when the victim of the attack is in his or her own dwelling or place of work. Many states employ "stand your ground" laws that do not require an individual to retreat and allow one to match force for force, deadly force for deadly force.

 English law

In English law the focus of the test is whether the defendant is acting reasonably in the particular situation. There is no specific requirement that a person must retreat in anticipation of an attack. Although some withdrawal would be useful evidence to prove that the defendant did not want to fight, not every defendant is able to escape. In R v Bird (1985) 1 WLR 816 the defendant was physically attacked, and reacted instinctively and immediately without having the opportunity to retreat. Had there been a delay in the response, the reaction might have appeared more revenge than self-defence. It might be different if the defendant sees an enemy approaching and decides to stand his ground. The answer may depend on where the threat is recognised. In a public place, where there are many other people present, a judgment must be made on whether an attack is imminent. As a matter of policy, no-one should be forced out of the streets because of fear, but prudence might dictate a different answer at night when the streets are empty.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
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Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
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beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


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Posted by bjdukert on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 1:45 PM

Afternoon all

If I remember the first thread for the diner (called something else. Ryan just ref. it a little while ago) was HUGE.

Can't remember what it was called right now, but I remember something like 1200-1300 pages or something like that.

It was nice and simple. "The Coffee Shop"

Best to all on sick call and those recovering AngelAngelAngel

Talk to you later

Duke

"Don't take a wooden nickel,because it isn't worth a dime" by my Dad

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Posted by Robby P. on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 1:35 PM

I agree busy Diner today.

Well Rob, your engine is on the way.   You shoudl get it in 2-3 days.

I took BLET (basic law enforcement training) in NC, and they said once they step in the door, window, etc, you can shoot.  Someone did ask, "Can you shoot them and then drag them in?".  No of course, but as long as they are in the house.

I read a story awhile back about a guy that broke into a house, and broke his leg while getting in.  Sued the family, and the robber won.  Go figure.

I know one thing.  We watch a show on BIO called "I survived".  Now that show makes you wanna get several guns, dogs, etc.

Well I worked on the CSXT hopper some more.  I had some rubber air-hoses come in.  So I took it off eBay, and redid some things.  Now I am getting ready to relist it.  At least its on .85 cents to relist.

Well guys and gals.  I will work on that, and soccer is coming on again.

I will be back in at dinner.

 "Rust, whats not to love?"      

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Posted by AmanaMedic on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 1:28 PM

Trainman Sam
Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Duty to Retreat where you have to back away UNTIL the perpetrator makes a direct threat of bodily harm towards you or someone else in the dwelling?

*scratching head in disbelief*

That can't be right... it seems to me, if somebody breaks into MY house...THEY would be the one with the "duty to retreat." I do know, I'd give them a reason to retreat.

I have my theories and opinions on how such nonsense came to be...but this isn't the place for them. There just isn't any sense in sparking another Trains.com flame war, so I'll just sit back down and enjoy a double bacon cheeseburger (thanks Chloe!) with a bucket of Coke.

In other news and views, I finally (after about 3-1/2 years of pondering and doodling) came up with a track plan I like, which incorporates just about everything I wanted...then realized it would be splendid in N scale...and paradise on earth in Z...but just not realistic (for the space I have) for HO.

And yes... I DID measure the room, several times, actually. I've even drawn-up scale layouts of the room. Somehow, someway, they got shuffled farther and farther to the bottom of the pile as the rough "not to scale" sketches started to pile up. Also, switching to N is NOT an option. It's the logical thing to do... makes perfect sense, and could theoretically be financed by selling the HO stuff...but, I just don't wanna!!!

*bangs head against wall*

So, tell me again, WHY do we engage in this hobby??? Oh yeah, the relaxation and pure enjoyment of it all...

Have a good, safe afternoon... It would appear, late lunch is on me...order up!

 

Chris

The Cedar cRapids Industrial Branch: Proudly Shipping Yesterday's CrunchBerries Tomorrow!

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
  • 25,640 posts
Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 1:18 PM

 Duty to retreat:

American Law

Some American jurisdictions require that a person retreat from an attack, and allow the use of deadly force in self defense only when retreat is not possible or when retreat poses a danger to the person under attack. The duty to retreat is not universal, however. For example, police officers are not required to retreat when acting in the line of duty. Similarly, some courts have found no duty to retreat exists when victim is assaulted in a place where the victim has a right to be, such as within one's own home. State v. Allery, 101 Wash.2d 591, 682 P.2d 312 (1984). The Model Penal Code § 3.04(2)(b)(ii) suggests statutory language that also recognizes an exception to the usual duty to retreat when the victim of the attack is in his or her own dwelling or place of work. Many states employ "stand your ground" laws that do not require an individual to retreat and allow one to match force for force, deadly force for deadly force.

 English law

In English law the focus of the test is whether the defendant is acting reasonably in the particular situation. There is no specific requirement that a person must retreat in anticipation of an attack. Although some withdrawal would be useful evidence to prove that the defendant did not want to fight, not every defendant is able to escape. In R v Bird (1985) 1 WLR 816 the defendant was physically attacked, and reacted instinctively and immediately without having the opportunity to retreat. Had there been a delay in the response, the reaction might have appeared more revenge than self-defence. It might be different if the defendant sees an enemy approaching and decides to stand his ground. The answer may depend on where the threat is recognised. In a public place, where there are many other people present, a judgment must be made on whether an attack is imminent. As a matter of policy, no-one should be forced out of the streets because of fear, but prudence might dictate a different answer at night when the streets are empty.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


  • Member since
    November 2007
  • From: Manassas, VA
  • 344 posts
Posted by Trainman Sam on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 1:10 PM

     Hello again all!  I just finished catching up on the new posts after I completed securing the track to the roadbed!  Man, we are a talkative group the past few days!!! (heeheehee) 

     Well, I hope to take some pictures of the layout once the adhesive cures better.  Don't worry, I did not glue under the switch points!!!  THAT would have been a disaster, and I have heard of people forgetting where the points were and BOOM, you now have immediate Out Of Service tracks!!!   Whups!

     Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Duty to Retreat where you have to back away UNTIL the perpetrator makes a direct threat of bodily harm towards you or someone else in the dwelling?

     Anyway, the motto I hold to is "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six."   On the other hand, in Texas (where my brother lives) you can shoot someone just for being on your property!  How crazy is this country?  The crooks have more rights than the victims...  DUMB!

Rob:  I like the moonshine site being guarded by the Pink Elephant!!!  Rather interesting, and funny, scenery!

Chloe, may I please have a Puh-cahn Pie along with a Caramel Cappaccino in a NH&I mug?  Thank you!  I'll be in the last window booth overlooking the yard tracks!

Sam

 May He bless you, guide you, and keep you safe on your journey through life!

 I Model the New Hope & Ivyland RR (Bucks County, PA)

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Western transplant to the Deep South
  • 4,256 posts
Posted by Cederstrand on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 11:35 AM

Wow, seems like just a bit ago I was here and look at all these new posts. Busy Diner. Well, since I'm buying, may as well treat myself to a Double Breve.

***Jeffrey, do be careful out there!

Finished chores and removed the hydraulic line to be replaced. Hopefully the local NAPA fella will be able to fix me up with a replacement. Already miss not having the loader and I really don't want to push a round bale up the slope and into the barn today.

Change of plans: I'm nixing the helix idea in favor of a simple rise in elevation towards that end of the layout. Will try to keep the grade around 3%. Still want 2 main lines, but one can be a "mountain line" (steeper grade) while the other remains relatively flat.

I'm seriously considering cutting the door/table in half, as it seems crowded with the wife's Hugely Oversized layout in the same room. While my layout plan shrinks, the realization of time & money required to build one increases.

Cowboy Rob

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
  • 25,640 posts
Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 11:06 AM

Packer
Barry; I don't know who thought that "duty to retreat" stuff up, but it's one of the most riducolus things I've heard of. What could that guy charge you for anyways, because you should be able to charge him for attempting to break and enter.

Duty to retreat?! Never heard of it. Somebody breaks into my place while I'm here will be carried out in a bag! When it comes to stuff like that I shoot first and ask questions later.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Shalimar. Florida
  • 2,622 posts
Posted by Packer on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 10:57 AM

Barry; I don't know who thought that "duty to retreat" stuff up, but it's one of the most riducolus things I've heard of. What could that guy charge you for anyways, because you should be able to charge him for attempting to break and enter.

Last night I bought an Athearn BB PRR 50' automobile box. As of now, I've removed the automobile lettering and the roofwalks. I won't go all the way by lowering the brakewheel and all the other stuff dealing with the ladders, brakewheel, etc since all that stuff is cast on and I don't have the tools and materials to do that. The P2K SP one I might, since all the ladders and stuff are seperate. I'll just have to fill the holes up on the main shell with putty (from the inside so I don't do a lot to the weathering)

Vincent

Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....

2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Finger Lakes
  • 10,198 posts
Posted by howmus on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 10:47 AM

Mornin' everyone!

Nice sunny day here in the Finger Lakes.  Currently 33°F with a high around 37°.  I'll be glad to see it start to get warmer as I have about 3 days worth of wood left to burn........  Then the gas furnace takes over.

Barry that is one great little cat you have there (and a good neighbor as well).  My cats let me know any time there is something going on outside.......... Mostly when I am trying to sleep.  Usually it is just the neighbors dog out or something like that.

Started my taxes last night.  TurboTax can't find last years return (think it was on a hard drive that failed last summer) so I have to reenter all the info again........  I'm hoping I can get it done by the end of next week so that I will be able to get to the sales tax forms for the state. Grumpy  Have to drive up to Canandaigua this afternoon for a dermatologist app't and to feed my sister's cat, water plants, bring her mail, etc.  Then I have a Cub Scout Pack Meeting to show up for (I am their Commissioner).  Probably very ltlle will get done on the layout.

Catch you all later!  Prayers for those in need!
 

Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO

We'll get there sooner or later! 

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: In the State of insanity!
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Posted by pcarrell on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 10:34 AM

Trainman Sam
Phil: Thanks for the video!  Is all that background noise (other than the sandpaper/sock) the engine?  If so, it makes me really glad that I went the cork roadbed route!!!

There's the sock thing, and then there's a place or two where the lens cover was hitting the camera as I moved around, but other then that, yeah, that's the train and the rails.  The loco in that was a Bmann Spectrum 2-8-0.

I thought that when the loco was on the rope caulk it was pretty quiet.  When it's on the bare foam it's quite a bit louder. 

Philip

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