Brutus, excellent tips for filing out a job application.
Happy Easter, everyone.
Thanks, edw!
Good night Sir James, hope your computer is working right tomorrow. Happy Easter, everyone!
RIP Chewy - best dog I ever had.
happy Easter all. The bunny has hidden his eggs and baskets have descended for the youngest. We're also ready for the real reason for celebration.Took the family out for pizza tonight. Got the March MR and Trains out of the library - did you see an ad for pre-wired telephone poles - what a neat idea! Watching some basketball. Hope your computer is working soon, Sir James.
Playing A&A is a great idea, Mike. Have to get it out again.
Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.
Happy Easter to all of my Peeps! (Get it?)
Now, get your butts to bed, before you get hopped over.
Happy Easter Everyone !!! Best wishes for a great and blessed day !!
Very good tips on the job application! Alway so much to learn from the forums. Do have to admit there seems a lot going on I don't understand, but that's OK, I havn't gone back and read everything either.
Spent some time in the train room tonight, didn't get any work done, but enjoyed playing. Kinda realy mellowed out. Listening to Fats Domino's "Wonderful World", then came inside and Kay had Sound of Music playing on TV.
Again Happy Easter to ALL !!!
Don
0630GMT -5C, 60mm of that white stuff here in Stockport. Slipped this under my gaurd, must pay attention.
Happy Easter.
John Baker
dbaker48 wrote: Listening to Fats Domino's "Wonderful World", then came inside and Kay had Sound of Music playing on TV.
Listening to Fats Domino's "Wonderful World", then came inside and Kay had Sound of Music playing on TV.
Louie Armstrong is my all time favorite singing It's a Wonderful World. The Ramones also did a very memorable version, yes the Ramones...I think it was based on the Armstrong version.
Happy Easter!
Kurt
Happy Easter, everyone. Getting ready to drive to St. Augustine to sing two services at Henry Flagler's Memorial Presbyterian Church. Yes, that Henry Flagler of FEC fame.
Mel Hazen; Jax, FL
Mel Hazen; Jax, FL Ride Amtrak. It's the only way to fly!!!
A Happy and Blessed Easter to all.
Happy Easter all,
2" of the white stuff here in Peterborough this morning. Went out and had a snow ball fight with the lad. Needless to say I am now defrosting slowly.
Lionel Collectors Club UK web site development is moving on apace. You can see a draft version at
http://www.lccuk.org.uk/lccuk
The forum is up and working. A number of club members are working on it. Expect it to go live in the early summer.
Have a good Sunday
Nick
Happy Easter!!!
It is a frosty morning in beautiful Ohio, and we can hear the geese pass overhead as they return to the north.
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
TCA 09-64284
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
edw wrote: RockIsland52 wrote: The qualifications and skill sets required are so numerous and spread across so many sub disciplines that it would take two or three people combined over a lifetime to have them all, spread out over 10 companies to boot. There is a reason that the KSAs (knowledge, skills and abilities) listed in Federal job vacancy announcements are written to cover a very broad spectrum. Such job descriptions serve a dual purpose for the managers. In addition to listing some of the actual skills needed for a particular job, they intentionally list a broad menu of desirable skills, in order to afford the selecting official the greatest amount of flexibility when choosing a candidate. Many years ago, written civil service exams were required for most federal jobs, and these tests provided a numerical score with which to rank all the applicants. Consequently, selecting officials were under great pressure to choose candidates with the highest scores, or spend a lot of time and effort justifying why they choose someone farther down on the list of eligibles. However, there were complaints that placing such a heavy reliance on written exams penalized certain segments of the population, and eventually, the use of written civil service exams was eliminated for most jobs. The current system gives selecting officials much greater latitude to pick almost any of the available applicants, by subjectively emphasizing one or more of the many KSAs listed in the official job description, in order to justify their selection.
RockIsland52 wrote: The qualifications and skill sets required are so numerous and spread across so many sub disciplines that it would take two or three people combined over a lifetime to have them all, spread out over 10 companies to boot.
The qualifications and skill sets required are so numerous and spread across so many sub disciplines that it would take two or three people combined over a lifetime to have them all, spread out over 10 companies to boot.
There is a reason that the KSAs (knowledge, skills and abilities) listed in Federal job vacancy announcements are written to cover a very broad spectrum. Such job descriptions serve a dual purpose for the managers. In addition to listing some of the actual skills needed for a particular job, they intentionally list a broad menu of desirable skills, in order to afford the selecting official the greatest amount of flexibility when choosing a candidate.
Many years ago, written civil service exams were required for most federal jobs, and these tests provided a numerical score with which to rank all the applicants. Consequently, selecting officials were under great pressure to choose candidates with the highest scores, or spend a lot of time and effort justifying why they choose someone farther down on the list of eligibles. However, there were complaints that placing such a heavy reliance on written exams penalized certain segments of the population, and eventually, the use of written civil service exams was eliminated for most jobs.
The current system gives selecting officials much greater latitude to pick almost any of the available applicants, by subjectively emphasizing one or more of the many KSAs listed in the official job description, in order to justify their selection.
You may be making my point. Subjectively emphasizing KSAs in candidate selection? No. Objectivity is what you want.
There is no issue here with providing more detail for the position in the knowledge, skills, and abilities section (KSAs). And performance on a written Civil Servants test is a good start, but shouldn't be the sole determinant either.
But by lumping them all together with no particular objective prioritization or weight, you give the impression they are all "must haves." Hence GregM's question, one of the most common questions posed by folks in the job hunt.
You wind up chasing away highly qualified candidates whose particular strengths are critical to success in the position. Ironically, the reverse is also true. You get far too many candidate responses because they have KSAs secondary or tertiary to success in the position and figure they will shoot their resume out there and hope it sticks.
Hiring managers, the ones in the best position to know the relative weight or importance of the KSAs, often pose the question to me: "At the end of the day, how do I narrow the resume or pre-screen field to come out with the best. After phone screens, how do I know which ones to bring in? And when it comes down to the final candidate selection, how do I pick the best one?" I have them force rank, weight, and segregate the KSAs into the "must have" from the "good to have" and the "nice to have."
In the internal company or corporate recruitment business, it's called "More than a gut feeling."
Jack
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
Brutus wrote: Good afternoon, coffee potters.Say something like "My former supervisor relied on my ability often, as a [position description], giving me the complex cases, because he knew that I would fully inform the claimant of the reasons for our decision including the evidence we considered; explanations of the actual laws, regulations and rules that we applied in reaching our decision; and, a rationale explaining how those same laws, regulations and rules combined with the significant facts or evidence to result in our decision; etc..." Point out that you did so in a manner that guaranteed that the claimant would understand our decision and that this communication would include all relevant information, so that it would stand on "four legs" or "on it's own" without a need for further information. You would be amazed at how many applicants never answer the first and most basic question -- can they do it? As you can imagine, this cuts down on their points.
Good afternoon, coffee potters.
Say something like "My former supervisor relied on my ability often, as a [position description], giving me the complex cases, because he knew that I would fully inform the claimant of the reasons for our decision including the evidence we considered; explanations of the actual laws, regulations and rules that we applied in reaching our decision; and, a rationale explaining how those same laws, regulations and rules combined with the significant facts or evidence to result in our decision; etc..." Point out that you did so in a manner that guaranteed that the claimant would understand our decision and that this communication would include all relevant information, so that it would stand on "four legs" or "on it's own" without a need for further information. You would be amazed at how many applicants never answer the first and most basic question -- can they do it? As you can imagine, this cuts down on their points.
Brutus, you've nailed it. Everyone in the job hunt should print your post out and read it daily. In the pre screen or the actual job interview, those making the cut can articulate not only the "what" but the "how," with specific examples from their background.
HAPPY EASTER TO EVERYONE.
A cold but sunny good morning from SE Mich. All websites working this morning. The cable co. really had their hands full trying to find their problem. It still was not working right when I went to bed.
Our little family will be over after church for Ham,I'm not sure if we will feed them dinner as I just told them ham.Oh ok dinner it is. Everyone have a wonderful day.,,,,S.J.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
Good Morning from Blueberryhill....
and Happy Easter to all...........
It is a clear, sunny 25 degrees. Going up to 46 today with sunshine.
Today, we are staying home and enjoying the peace and quiet. A nice dinner is planned and then relax. I may run trains later. Wife is working on some new paintings. Maybe a train station.
Dining car was here for breakfast and then headed out to " points west"
Y'all have a great Easter Sunday.
Chuck
Morning all! My son and I are going to my folks' house for a big lunch in a minute, so just stopped by to wish all a Blessed day! My daughter has strep, so she'll stay at home with my wife.
Thanks for the positive feedback on my job-skills post, Jack!
Yummy - I can almost smell that ham from here - TTFN!
RockIsland52 wrote: You may be making my point. Subjectively emphasizing KSAs in candidate selection? No. Objectivity is what you want.
Jack, we're on the same page here. In my earlier post, I was relaying some information given to me by someone involved with the hiring practices at a Federal agency. I wasn't supporting the practices; on the contrary, I was criticizing them.
But it gets even worse. I was also told that due to the large number of applications that are received for most openings in the federal sector, many of the submitted applications never even make it to the selecting officials. Applications may be filtered in a number of ways. For example, many of the jobs listed on OPM's web site, USA JOBS, include an online questionnaire. Just as with the broad KSAs, the questions usually cover a wide range of hypothetical situations seemingly unrelated to the specific job. But unless you answer yes to almost all of the questions, your application won't even be forwarded to the selecting officials. Another screening method which is sometimes employed is to have your resume machine searched for certain key words which appear in the KSAs. This is why Brutus's advice is invaluable. If you haven't included enough of those key words in your resume, your application doesn't make the cut and is never even considered.
When my daughter was applying for her first job out of college, she made the mistake of treating these questionnaires as if they pertained only to professional work experience. For example, a question might ask: "Have you ever improvised a solution to an unexpected crisis which threatened to interfere with the mission of your employer?" Or, "Have you ever worked overtime to complete mission critical deadlines?" Since my daughter had only worked part time jobs while attending school, she routinely answered "No" to questions like these thinking they only applied to full time "real" jobs. When she wasn't getting positive responses for jobs she felt qualified for, she called the contact person for one of the jobs, who explained to her that her questionnaire score wasn't high enough, and her application wasn't even forwarded to the selecting official. The contact person was kind enough to discuss with her how she was answering the questions. One of my daughter's college jobs was working at a pizza shop. The woman asked her, "Did you ever have a customer complain that they got the wrong pizza, and you corrected the problem by giving them their correct order?" When my daughter answered "Sure, that happened on occasion", the contact person told her, well then; you could have answered "Yes" to the question about improvising solutions to a crisis. She then asked her, "Did you ever have to work through the night to finish a paper that was due the next day?" When my daughter answered "Sure", the woman said, then you can truthfully answer "Yes" to the question about having worked overtime to complete a mission critical deadline.
I guess the bottom line is that the hiring process is not an exact science, and you have to know how the game is played.
Brutus wrote: Morning all! My son and I are going to my folks' house for a big lunch in a minute, so just stopped by to wish all a Blessed day! My daughter has strep, so she'll stay at home with my wife.Thanks for the positive feedback on my job-skills post, Jack!Yummy - I can almost smell that ham from here - TTFN!
Brutus, you have careers waiting for you in recruiting and sales. Hopefully, toy train sales for the benefit of the rest of us. = employee discount passed on to us.
Apologies to all who find this job hunt chat off target a bit. But there's been more than a few Forum members who have been going through this transition in the past couple of months. After years of experience on both sides of the fence, I know how difficult and frustrating a job search can be, gut check time.
I've spent a lot of time helping family, friends, and acquaintances with job searches. What I usually find is that we all tend to underestimate our value to employers, downplay our achievements, or simply fail to communicate our value. Everything goes South from there (sorry, Chief).
Happy Easter from a blustery Dallas where the temp is about 56 and cloudy. Maybe some rain tonight.
Early services today. Daughter and her choir did a great job this morning.
Off to my wifes niece's house for Easter lunch!
Have a great day all!
Regards, Roy
Afternoon All.
Hope all are enjoying the day with family and friends. Our company should start arriving shortly, only about twelve this year as kids grow-up and start traditions of their own. Got a nice pork loin on the rotisserie, scalloped taters ready for the oven and asparagas ready for the grille.
I'm already pooped, grandson wore me out yesterday and haven't recovered yet.
See y'all later !
Remember the Veterans. Past, present and future.
www.sd3r.org
Proud New Member Of The NRA
Evening all
I hope you had a wonderful and enriching Easter Holiday. It has been pretty much non-stop here. We had services Thursday, Friday Saturday and today. I'm beat. Not much time for trains this weekend except looking at the new CTT with my Grandson. That was fun.
This has been an especially great Easter. A lot of work but worth every minute. Just want to check in.
May God bless
Jim
EVENING ALL
We had a plesant day with our kids and gr.kids. The little ones were quieter than usual today which was good for old gramps. Brutus I thought of you today as we got out sons large collection of legos kids and son on the floor building things. when he married he began a collection of lego pirate ships so we kept his old ones here for the kids to play with. Just like old times as they say. Of course dinner was great and we all got well fed without grits. Oldest son and family drove to florida friday said I75 was door to door cops from ohio through Ga. DIL tried grits for breakfast sat, today she said she was still trying to get the sand out of her teeth. Well thats my easter sunday, I hope yours went well too....S.J
Good nite Chewy
Easter dinner finished, company departed and garden trains put away, in essence a Great Day.
Now, if I can just keep awake for a little while longer.
Good evening all,
It was a cool day in SE Indiana with temps in the 30s. Had a good day with the family. Ran the 384E for the nieces and and grandsons. Watched the F-1 race. Kimi won. Will update further tomorrow. I hope everyone has a good day.
Keep on training,
Mike C. from Indiana
Getting closer to 1,000!
It's a sunny, cold 25 degrees. Going up to 42 today with some snow flurries later.
Today is a busy day. I have a few errands to run and chores at home. I don't think I will have time for trains today. Had a very relaxing Easter Sunday. Sun was out all day. Not much else new.
Dining car is ready for breakfast. Later.
Y'all have a great Monday.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month