Northwoods FlyerWhat other Flyer equipment did you inherit from your cousins? Inquiring minds want to know. Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby Northwoods Flyer
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
Just the passenger set. I have a large freight set with link couplers that I assumed came with the only other Flyer steamer I have, it is much larger & longer, and is missing leading and trailing trucks.
Rob
Mersenne6,
Those are great pictures. It is a treat to see a complete set and to see those switches "in action".
I have a reprint of the American Flyer 1914 catalog that was done by TTOS in 1980. In the body of the catalog it says that it was a reprint of the 1914 catalog reprinted by TCA in 1961. This is the cover.
The layout is very similar to the set that you have.
The inside of the front cover does show and describe the M20 set. The text on this page and several others makes me wonder if this was intended to be a consumer catalog or a dealer catalog.
One of the pages toward the end of the catalog illustrates track and accessories, and there is the Double Track Switch
No. M218
And the left and right switches that have been posted previously.
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
...and if you look at No. MBS in the upper right corner of the last page you posted you can see this automatic brake section below the outside locomotive in the first picture I posted in my last post.
mersenne6,
I noticed the target at trackside by the double switch in your first picture and I wondered what it was. Thanks for pointing out that it is the automatic brake section. Those Flyer folks were pretty clever people. I really like seeing the entire set displayed. Thanks for posting the photos.
NationWideLines said:
"Here are pictures of another set of early switches. These are Flyer switches and I am guessing they date to the mid to late teens, c. 1917-1918. These switches are identifiable by the two ties at the ends of the switches. These are banked ties and their means of attachment are to punch out areas on each side of the rail and bend it up over the bottoms of the rail. This is how Flyer was attaching the rails to track during this time.
Hello Bluecomet390,
Welcome to the thread. I assume that the set you are referring to is the M20 that Mersenne6 has photos of in his post above. One of the things I enjoy about collecting of any type (but especially American Flyer trains) is that they turn up at unexpected times and in unexpected places. I also enjoy the stories of how the trains were found.
What else can you tell us about the set that turned up on Vancouver Island?
Northwoods,
I believe that the switches you have shown may be Hafner items. I know that the early flyer catalogs 1916-1919 show the windup switches having the switch levers/throws similar to the ones on the pair of switches that I have. I have seen other switches like yours being advertised as Hafner switches. Since Hafner's early years were somewhat of a divergence from American Flyer after Mr. Hafner left Flyer, I can see where the general appearance of their switches might be similar, but yet the two companies would wanted to distinguish themselves from each other, and possibly having different switch levers/throws may have been the way.
Since the Flyer catalogs tend to show the switch levers/throws similar to the switches I have and the last railroad ties are similar to the Flyer track, which is also shown in the Flyer catalogs, I would guess that the switches I have are definitely American Flyer production.
However, I cannot be certain as to what company produced the switches you have shown.
NWL
NationWideLines,
Thanks for the heads up on the switches. How these switches got in with the American Flyer set will just remain a mystery for the ages. I'll guess that the original owner was a lucky boy who got extra track and equipment for his train set.
In keeping with our recent theme of clockwork trains let me complete the collection of photos of the types of track available in the 1914 catalog.
In the upper left of the above photo you can see the No. MX Crossover.
The crossover below is included in the American Flyer set that belongs to The Marathon County Historical Society. It has been damaged and re-soldered.
Awesome
After seeing a very disturbing sale on ebay, I thought I would post some information about the following item.
Perceived Prewar Hat
My condolences to the person who recently bought the reproduction on ebay, as in my opinion you were taken in by a fraudster.
3107 Variations - Update
The 3107 has been featured in posts on this tread a number of times. The most recent post was back on page 82 For an engine that only appeared in the catalog from 1930 through 1932 it certainly has gathered a lot of attention.
In Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer Prewar O Gauge Schuweiler lists 7 variations of this Midsized Box Cab. After a recent purchase I now have 3 of them.
On the bottom left is variation (A); bottom right is variation (B); on top is what I believe is an undocumented variation (making a possible 8th variation.).
All of the variations are very similar to each other. The distinguishing characteristic for Variation (A) is that it has one "3107" plate and one "American Flyer Lines" plate on each side.
Variation (B) has two "American Flyer Plates" per side'
Both of these engines came with matching green cars and make up the Frontenac set.
The variation on the top is distinguished by its blue-green body and darker blue-green roof. It has one "#3107" and one "American Flyer Lines" plate on each side. I believe this is from the 1932 Bluebird set. It has matching blue cars.
Variations (A) and (B) have a manual reverse,which is operated by the lever protruding through the roof in front of the pantograph at the end opposite the headlight. Variations (F) and (G) which Schuweiler describes as being medium blue or darker blue-green have remote reversing. As you can see in the photos my example has a manual reverse lever protruding through the roof like Variations (A) and (B)
Most of the other variations have a remote-control reverse. These have the windows in the end doors punched out to accommodate a reverse lockout lever.
The three examples here have their end windows in the door un-punched.
There is always another variation to look for when collecting American Flyer.
The Frontenac - Set #1322
As a follow up to the previous post on #3107 Midsized Boxcabs I thought I would post photos of two sets.
Frontenac sets appear in the 1930 through 1932 catalogs.
In 1930 it is headed up by a manual reverse 3107 in set 1322 and it is called "The FRONTENAC".
In 1931 it is renamed "FRONTENAC" and is headed by a 3107 with a remote control reverse. This set is numbered 1382. The #1322 set is still cataloged and has the manual reverse, although its description appears in a blue outlined box under the featured #1382 set.
In 1932 the "FRONTENAC" is cataloged again. It is the #1382 with the remote control reverse. The manual reverse set #1322 is no longer listed.
My two sets both are headed by manual reverse #3107. So I assume they are from 1930-1931.
3017 Caboose variation
There are several other postings on cabooses and particularly the 3107 here on the thread.
They occur on page 24, 26, and page 61.
On page 61 strainst posted about 2 cars that he had purchased. He posted an interesting variation of the 3017 caboose.
I recently came across a similar version.
Other than the obvious difference that strainst's example has a Lionel latch coupler, they appear to be identical.
The one other difference that may be present is that the cupola and its roof are a lighter red than the body and main roof of the caboose on my example.
The "AFL" and "American Flyer" on both examples are stamped in silver.
The most interesting part of this variation is the green base and the yellow ladders - both of which appear to be original.
Both examples of this variation are stamped "3017" in black on the bottom of the frame.
As far as dating is concerned, the 3017 was cataloged in 1930-1932 and again in 1934-1936. The type VIII truck was used from 1933-1938. My guess is that this variation dates from the 1934-1936 time period. I think we have another variation.
I would suggest that the cupola and its roof on your caboose are not original to that car. The embossing of the window frames and roof with no ribs, as well as the overall shape of the cupola and roof are different from the Chicago era Flyer cabooses. It almost looks like it might be a roof from a 3/16 Gilbert caboose.
The green frame caboose is an interesting item. It would look really sharp with a green roof, like the following caboose.
I would guess that your caboose more likely dates to the 1931-1932 era, as opposed to the later era. My experience is that there are fewer paint color variations on the later production items. However, I know that I have a c. 1935 - 1114 caboose with a green roof, so there were some color variations on the later cars too.
Thanks for the catch on the cupola on the caboose. It does look like a Gilbert era caboose cupola.
Nationwidelines Northwoods, I would guess that your caboose more likely dates to the 1931-1932 era, as opposed to the later era. My experience is that there are fewer paint color variations on the later production items. However, I know that I have a c. 1935 - 1114 caboose with a green roof, so there were some color variations on the later cars too. NWL
I based the date of the caboose to the later time frame because the type VIII trucks weren't produced until 1933. I was basing that on the Greenberg Guide that lists the Type VIII truck as being produced from 1933-1938, and the 3017 didn't reappear in the catalog until 1934 after disappearing in 1933. Of course we all know that errors have sneaked into that resource. At least there are two examples that I know of with the green base and red body with Type VIII trucks.
Northwoods Flyer I based the date of the caboose to the later time frame because the type VIII trucks weren't produced until 1933. I was basing that on the Greenberg Guide that lists the Type VIII truck as being produced from 1933-1938, and the 3017 didn't reappear in the catalog until 1934 after disappearing in 1933. Of course we all know that errors have sneaked into that resource. At least there are two examples that I know of with the green base and red body with Type VIII trucks. Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby Northwoods Flyer
My experience is that the Greenberg's guide is not perfect as far as production dates. I recently obtained a 1931 Smoky Mountain set from the original owner's family. I know it was 1931 because of the 3300 engine that came with the set. The tender, log car, and tank car in that set both feature type VIII trucks on them, with the rest of the cars featuring type VII trucks. In fact all of the 3301 tenders I have seen from 1931 (which are unique because they feature gloss black paint in 1931 only) feature the type VIII trucks. So it seems that the type VIII trucks first appeared in 1931 as opposed to 1933. Therefore, your caboose could have been from the earlier period of production.
3019 Large Boxcab
I was poking around in some boxes under the Blueboard Central and I came across this engine. I forgot that I had it, so I decided that it was time to add it to the thread.
The 3019 Large Boxcab is listed in the 1923 and 1924 catalogs.
It is a less expensive version of the 3020 Boxcab.
The obvious difference being that the 3019 lacks front and rear pony trucks.
Some detail photos.
The 3019 was designed to use the auxilary lighting set that made use of a wire to connect to the Illini passenger cars to provide power to the interior lights.
Schuweiler, in the Greenberg guide, lists variations with a black body and maroon windows, this dark green version with red windows, and a brown version with yellow windows.
Set 1720-R
Baltimore and Ohio Passenger Set from 1936
Back on page 83 I posted several entries about 4 car Wide/Low Profile passenger sets. At that time I didn't have an example of the set from 1936. Since then I have been able to assemble a set. So here are some photos of the 1936 version.
I'd love to have a set as it is illustrated in the catalog with silver finished cars. I know that the catalog says that the colors may vary but I wonder if this set ever came with the silver cars.
All four cars are lighted and the engine has a headlight and the red fire box light, which you can just see reflecting off the wheels.
The primary unique aspect of this set is that it came with a #3199 tender with the gold box at the front.
Its a fun train to run with the lights off.
Here is the original posting.
The transition from the Coleman period of production in Chicago to Gilbert production in New Haven saw a number of changes in the O gauge line. I'd like to illustrate some of those changes in the following entries that focus on a 4 car passenger set. Engines change, tenders change, trucks change and couplers change.
Wide/Low profile cars were first introduced by American Flyer in 1930. In the 1936 catalog four of these cars were matched up with a Type VIII engine and a #3199 tender.
Very informative thread! Here is my humble contribution. I believe it is a #401 from about 1940. :)
Hi Grizzly Adams,
to the thread.
Your engine does look like an example of the 401 from 1940. Its known as a Type XX engine made of sheet metal. It was cataloged from 1934 to 1935 and again from 1937 to 1940. It was used in a number of sets both cataloged and uncataloged. It underwent a number of changes through out its history.
The nickle trim is what gives the clue that your engine is from 1940. American Flyer gave nickel trim to a number of its engines in that year.
Here is my example of the 401 from 1940
And here is an example of the 401 from 1939. You will notice that the trim is either copper or brass.
What I noticed about your engine is that it seems to be a mixture of copper and nickle. The stack on your engine appears to be copper and the rest of the trim is nickle.
Here is a closer look at the top of the 1939 and 1940 version.
The mixture of trims on your engine is an interesting variation.
Thank you Northwoods Flyer. I appreciate the information! I am trying to learn as much as I can about these great old electric trains, and this thread has been very valuable.
You are welcome Grizzly Adams. I'm glad you are finding some helpful information here.
Here is another example of the Type XX engine.
This is the engine as it was cataloged in 1938.
Its numbered 4603 (although no number appears on the engine itself) and is painted a gun metal gray.
I agree with NationWideLines; I've noticed that my Type XX engines with the whistle are also very soft. I think that only one of my examples works. I have a sheet metal Hiawatha with the same whistle mechanism in it and it is much easier to hear.
Lets continue with the theme of the Type XX sheet metal steam locomotive.
1938 Set No. 2 Freight Train
The 1938 catalog is a mixture of old Chicago American Flyer and Gilbert American Flyer Equipment.
The Type XX engine which is a carry over from Chicago Flyer production appears in several sets.
This is Set No. 2 Freight Train
The set consists of:
4603 Remote Control Locomotive and Tender
3019 Dump Car
3015 Box Car
3018 Tank Car
3017 Caboose
Flyer made use of the Type XX steam engine for a number of good looking sets.
1938 Set No. 1 Passenger Train
On the same page with the No.2 Freight Train the No.1 Passenger Train is shown.
This set consists of:
It uses the same 4603 Remote Control Locomotive and Tender
1 - 1214 Baggage Car
2 - 1213 Passenger Cars with Lights
1 - 1217 Observation with Light
I think its another excellent use of the Type XX sheet metal steam locomotive; this time paired with the smaller passenger cars. Any child would have been excited to have this set delivering passengers to different towns and stations around the layout.
Beautiful set! :)
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