The transition from the Coleman period of production in Chicago to Gilbert production in New Haven saw a number of changes in the O gauge line. I'd like to illustrate some of those changes in the following entries that focus on a 4 car passenger set. Engines change, tenders change, trucks change and couplers change.
Wide/Low profile cars were first introduced by American Flyer in 1930. In the 1936 catalog four of these cars were matched up with a Type VIII engine and a #3199 tender.
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
In 1938 the transition to Gilbert ownership and production is very evident; starting with the catalog.
The 1937 catalog reused the artwork from an earlier catalog. It was the kind of catalog that American Flyer fans had come to expect; big and colorful.
Ready!
Set!
Six!
Great job Greg!
This thread has been a real historic look at the early years of American Flyer. I can't imagine any publication that would have as much information as there is right here.
Thanks!
Ray
Bayville, NJ
Life is what happens to youWhile you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
Thanks Ray,
I like to think that this thread has gathered a great deal of information about Pre War American Flyer Trains in one place. Most of the information is available through other sources, but there have been a few new additions to the knowledge base. Thanks for the compliment.
Continung the story of the 4 car, blue, Wide/Low profile passenger set.
In 1939 Gilbert begins to make more of its influence known on the American Flyer train line.
The 1939 catalog continues the same type of artwork present in the 1938 catalog.
Northwood Flyer
Congratulations on your sixth year anniversary! With all of the pleasure I have received from the past posting, I look forward to the future postings. The knowledge contained in these postings on American Flyer trains is second to none!! Keep up the great work. I look forward to contributing additional posting as I am getting closer to finishing the construction phase of my train room. Once that is finished, I will be able to unpack my trains and start to enjoy them again.
strainst
Congrats on 6 years.
NWL
Wide/Low Profile Blue 4 Car Passenger Sets
Summary
Here is a summary of the previous posts on these sets.
1937
This exists as a separate thread on the forum but I like to keep as much Flyer related material as I can available through this thread.
An American Flyer Tale for Christmas
2013 Edition
Most of the time Jillian thought that having four older brothers was the best thing that a girl could have. And then there were other times when she wished that she was an only child. Today was one of those days when she wished that all four of her brothers would evaporate.
For weeks she had been anticipating everyone being home for the Christmas holiday. It would be just like every other Christmas with the house full of people. Her brothers were always bringing friends home or dashing out to play a pick-up game of football or pond hockey. They usually let her tag along to watch, or they invited her to play when they were shorthanded. Jillian was a talented athlete in her own right, but her chosen sport was soccer. Her coach told her that she was faster than any player that he had ever coached. That gave her a sense of confidence and inspired her to always play her best.
Her brothers started arriving home the weekend before Christmas. Her oldest brother James arrived home first. During the summer he had taken a job on the other side of the state. They didn’t see him very often but he frequently sent notes to Jillian asking her how school and soccer were going. Several hours later her second brother Jesse came bounding in the front door. Just like mom had predicted he had a huge laundry bag flung over his shoulder. It probably contained every piece of clothing he owned. He was going to school at the state university several hours away and had ridden home with his roommate. The last ones to arrive were her twin brothers Joe and Josh. All their lives they had done things together and when it came time to go to college they had even picked the same engineering school to attend. Fortunately they hadn’t taken the same classes. As freshmen they had the worst possible time slots for their final exams. When Josh’s final was done they just had enough time to get aboard the bus that would get them home very late. The roads were bad that night and mom and dad had stayed up waiting for them to arrive. They told Jillian that they were working on the last of the preparations for Christmas, but she could tell that they were worried. She had gone upstairs to bed before they got home, but she knew immediately when they arrived. There was thumping and bumping in the front hall and then the sound of her two older brothers thundering down the stairs with greetings and loud voices. Jillian threw on her robe and slippers and headed down the stairs. As she reached the landing of the stairs she looked down and saw her four brothers and mom and dad all hugging and talking at the same time. She paused for a moment and took it all in. It felt good to have the family all together. Then she bounded down the stairs and joined the celebration.
The following days were full of preparations and celebrating. Mom and Dad had gone to great lengths to have the house decorated with all the familiar decorations. For weeks Mom had been baking everyone’s favorite cookies and treats and the tins on the sun porch were full. Dad had gotten all of the outside decorations and lights put up shortly after Thanksgiving.
Several days after the tree was up and decorated Dad had dug out the old train set that he had as a boy and put it under the tree. Jillian hadn’t seen it in years. Her brothers had always monopolized it when it had been under the tree and all she had been allowed to do was sit on the floor and watch it circle the tree. Dad had packed it up one year after he discovered the boys crashing the engine into their cars and trucks; creating spectacular wrecks.
Now that it was out on display again the boys were monopolizing it just as they had years ago. Jillian had watched them play with it so often when she was younger that she knew just how to set it up and operate it. Before the boys came home she had asked Dad to show her how to run it. They had spent several hours that afternoon watching it run around the tree and Dad told her several stories about it. He told her about the Christmas that he had gotten it and how Grandpa had helped him set it up. He told her about Grandma giving him an old bed sheet to use as a snowy landscape. He could remember who had given him the extra cars and accessories that he got each year for his birthday and Christmas. Jillian enjoyed hearing the stories and they gave special meaning to that train running around the tree. Dad had encouraged her to play with it, but to treat it well. She was fascinated by the way it traveled along and she began to feel confident in running it.
That is one of the reasons she was so frustrated with her brothers today. All four of them were in the living room monopolizing the train again and she couldn’t even get near it. They didn’t seem to appreciate it any more today than they had when Dad packed it away years ago. Their conversations bothered her too. James kept talking about how much money they could get for it if Dad sold the pieces individually to collectors. Jesse was focused on how much fun the train wrecks had been and wanted to run the engine into all kinds of things to see what would happen. The twins were occupied with trying to apply the things that they had learned in their classes, like momentum and amps and volts and watts; most of which Jillian had no idea what they were talking about. The most frustrating thing was that they ignored her or anything that she said. Finally she got frustrated and announced to them that she wanted to run the train. All of the chattering among the boys stopped and four sets of eyes focused on her as if she had poinsettias growing out of her ears. That’s when Jesse told her not to be dumb. “Girls don’t know anything about trains or how to run them. Trains and technical things are meant for boys.”
Jillian was furious. Her face turned a bright red and she stormed out the room. This was the part of having only brothers that frustrated her. It had happened before and she always felt angry and hurt. She retreated to her room for a few minutes where she plotted all kinds of ways to take revenge on the boys for being so thoughtless and mean. After a few minutes as she began to calm down she remembered what she had done on other occasions when she felt mistreated. She decided it was time to go for a visit to Auntie Mimi and Uncle Dick.
Jillian went down to the front hall where she could hear her brothers chattering in the living room, slipped on her coat, hat, gloves and boots and headed out the front door. She closed it with just a little more force than she needed to so that it sounded inside the house as if she had slammed the door in anger. She wondered if the boys would even notice.
Auntie Mimi and Uncle Dick lived two blocks away from her house. They were actually her mother’s aunt and uncle which made them her great-aunt and great-uncle. That didn’t make any difference to Jillian, she always felt welcome and loved when she went to their house. They had no children of their own so they treated Jillian and her brothers as if they were their own children. As she got closer to their house she felt some of the anger and frustration drain away. By the time she got to the steps leading up to the porch and climbed them to the front door she was feeling eager to see them and taste some of the goodies that Auntie Mimi always had on hand. She rang the doorbell and she could hear footsteps coming toward the door. Uncle Dick opened the door, greeted her with his big smile and said “Jillian! How good to see you. We were wondering how long it would take before your brothers got on your nerves.” He helped her off with her coat and called down the hall, “Marian, we have company.” Auntie Mimi’s real name was Marian, but Jillian had trouble saying it when she was very young and it came out “Mimi”. The name had stuck and now everyone in the family called her Auntie Mimi, except Uncle Dick of course who always called her Marian.
Auntie Mimi came out of the kitchen wiping her hands on one of the big flowery aprons that she always wore when she was baking. “My goodness child, what perfect timing you have. I just finished baking a batch of sugar cookies. Come out to the kitchen and have a glass of milk and some fresh cookies.” Suddenly Jillian’s day was looking much better.
The three of them sat at the big round wooden table in the kitchen and chatted while Jillian drank her milk and ate more cookies than she should have; and while her aunt and uncle sipped hot tea. Finally Uncle Dick asked how things were going with her brothers and she poured out the whole story about Dad’s train and how unfair and unkind her brothers had been. Her aunt and uncle listened intently, but somehow she felt that they were both having a difficult time keeping the corners of their mouths from turning up in amusement. Now that she was telling the story it didn’t seem quite so serious anymore. Her brothers were just being dumb boys.
When she had finished Uncle Dick rubbed his chin and said “So your brothers won’t let you play with the train eh?” He looked at his wife, winked and said “Are you thinking what I’m thinking Marian?” She smiled back at him and said “I believe I am. Do you know where those boxes are?” Uncle Dick nodded his head and said “I do, but I think we should all make a trip up to the attic to find them.”
Jillian was puzzled by this interchange between them. But things began to clear up quickly. “Jillian” said Auntie Mimi, “I bet you don’t know that Uncle Dick and I had trains when we were children. Jillian shook her head. “Well, you know that we were born in the same year. It seems that both of our sets of parents were very excited to welcome a first child into the family. In anticipation of our first Christmas, before we were even born, our fathers bought train sets. We still have both sets stored up in the attic.” Jillian was surprised and excited by this news. “Would you like to go up and help us hunt for them?”
The door to the attic was in one of the upstairs bedrooms. Jillian followed her aunt and uncle upstairs to the door. Uncle Dick opened the heavy wooden door and flipped a switch just inside the door. A cold blast of air blew down the stairs from the attic. Uncle Dick led the way up the stairs, Jillian in the middle, and Auntie Mimi brought up the rear. The lights along the ceiling lit up the entire attic. Jillian could see neatly labeled boxes and cartons lining the walls. There were several pieces of furniture covered with sheets and blankets to protect from dust. Jillian was surprised at how neat and orderly everything was. There was a large open space in the middle of the floor that was covered with linoleum.
“Dick, I think the boxes are just up there beyond Grandma’s chest of drawers.” Jillian followed her uncle to the spot and there were two very old cardboard boxes with colorful paper labels sitting side by side. Each label read “American Flyer Trains”, and in an area shaped like a shield on the label it said “Electric Trains”, then “Wide Gauge” and a number was stamped on each label.
Jillian was so excited that she was almost dancing. “Do you want to help me unpack them?” asked Uncle Dick. “It’s been a few years since we have had them out to run.” Her aunt and uncle each took a box and slid the top off. Inside each box were several bundles carefully wrapped in tissue paper. They handed her bundle after bundle and she unwrapped them with great care. She was surprised at how large the engine and cars were. They ran on 3 rail track, but they were much larger than the train around the tree at home. Eventually there were two trains sitting on the attic floor. Uncle Dick’s train had a green square looking engine with the #4644 on brass plates on its sides. It had an orange car that he called a sand car and a red caboose. Auntie Mimi’s train had the same #4644 engine but it was a passenger set. There were two coaches that matched the green color of the engine. One had “America” on its sides and the other car was an observation car that said “Pleasant View” on its sides. “We always felt lucky that we had a freight and passenger set. They were purchased from the same store by our parents.” said Auntie Mimi.
Jillian helped them to unwrap the track and transformer with each set. She helped them set up two ovals of track in the big open space in the center of the attic. Jillian knew just how to assemble the track and make the connections between the tracks and transformers because Dad had shown her how to do that on his set at home.
Before long the tracks were assembled, the transformers hooked up and plugged in and the two trains sitting waiting on the tracks. Uncle Dick found two low stools that he and Auntie Mimi could sit on. Jillian was sitting on a rug on the floor. Her aunt and uncle looked at each other and smiled. “Well what are you waiting for?” asked Auntie Mimi. “You want me to run them?” said Jillian. “Of course.” they said in unison. She slowly turned up the power and both engines sputtered to life pulling their cars along the track. The three of them sat in the attic playing with the trains for some time. Jillian heard several stories about when the trains were played with. She most enjoyed the story of how when they were dating they discovered that they both liked trains.
When it came time for Jillian to go home she offered to help put everything back in the boxes. “Nonsense said her aunt. “We’re going to leave them up for a while. When you feel like running trains and your brothers are not willing to share, you come right over here and run our trains.” Jillian was thrilled.
As Jillian was putting on her coat she turned to Auntie Mimi and said “I’m so glad you think girls can play with trains.” A big smile came to her aunt’s face. “I always liked running my train.” Jillian thought for a moment and said. “Auntie Mimi, I know those trains are very old and they still run so well. They run as good as Dad’s train at home.” “Of course they do.” said her aunt. “Every so often I go up and oil the engine and do maintenance. Uncle Dick doesn’t know anything about trains.”
Jillian almost skipped all the way home. She couldn’t wait to get home and tell her brothers a thing or two.
The End
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Items for the Canadian Market
Sometime in the mid-teens American Flyer began making items for the Canadian Market, apparently to compete with Hafner. Many of these items are believed to have been made for special sets sold through the T. Eaton Co. of Toronto, as that company produced catalogs that showed Dominion Flyer Lines items in their catalog artwork.
Here are a couple of the Flyer produced items for the Canadian Market.
A Continental Flyer Line 1107 baggage in maroon c. 1916
Dominion Flyer
Dominion Flyer items appeared sometime in the 1920s, with the T. Eaton Co. showing a 1218 engine followed by a Dominion Flyer 6 1/2 inch baggage and coach in their fall/ winter 1923-1924 catalog. The Fall/Winter 1924-1925 catalog shows a number of Dominion Flyer sets, including 1107-1108 cars and the 6.5 inch cars. The 1925-1926 catalog shows only the 6.5 inch cars, with the 1927-1928 fall winter catalog showing a regular American Flyer Oriental Limited set, with all catalogs after that point showing regular production American Flyer items.
In speaking with fellow collectors of Dominion Flyer items, it is my understanding that the baggage cars are harder to find than the coaches, which is understandable since sets came either without a baggage car or with a baggage car and 1 or 2 coaches, indicating that more coaches were produced than baggage cars.
Here are some 6.5 inch Dominion Flyer cars
As for color variations in the 1105-1106 cars, I am only aware of red and blue. I know the 1107-1108 Dominion Flyer cars also come in green. There are also different road names on the cars. There can either be the Canadian National Railways, like on the cars shown above or Canadian Pacific Railways. However, I believe that the different road names only appear on the 1107-1108 cars.
I have also seen some late 1106 coaches that have interior lights in them and have one red coach, not shown, with an interior light.
Smoky Mountain set c. 1931
Here are photos of a Smoky Mountain set, c. 1931, as found today, from the original owner's family.
This set was the premier freight set of 1931, featuring the new 3300 engine and 3301 tender, both in gloss black. This engine would only be offered in 1931 with the cast headlight visor and red cast iron cab weight, as well as the die cast side rods, which did not prove to be a good design. In 1932, the engine features a different motor, with slightly larger wheels, no cast headlight visor, and no cast iron cab weight. Additionally, the later engines featured a ringing bell and were painted more of a semi gloss black instead of the gloss black of the 3300.
1931 also marks a year in which the O gauge truck styles change, with the 3301 tender having the later style trucks and the freight cars having a mix of early and late style trucks.
Northwoods,
I do not recall if I have posted these pictures here or not, so I apologize if I have. It is so hard to go back through 80 + pages of information.
Anyway, here are some unmarked and not often seen American Flyer accessories. They came to me with a set, which I know is a cataloged set that included these items. They were also sold as separate sale items up until around 1924 (I think).
First item is a #94 turntable.
NationWideLines,
Thank you for the excellent posts on Canadian production. I do not have any of those items in my callection, but as I told you at Mad City Train Show I have been asked to provide some information about a clockwork set that our local historical society has in its collection. It has a Dominion car in the set, but I'll post about that car and set later.
What I do have in the Northwoods Flyer Collection are some pieces that belong to the clockwork era. I was lured into purchasing them by the excellent posts made by you, overlandflyer, AF53 and several othes a number of pages back. I am so easily led astray!
I don't have any two rail clockwork track but I do have a set of turnouts. So I'm ready to start on a clockwork empire.
I don't have many AF items in my collection, but I do have some different examples of Flyer clockwork turnouts. In addition to the turnouts that Northwoods Flyer posted, AF also made the same basic switch with a different style of switchstand:
To be fair, I believe that the target on this switchstand is probably homemade! But, the pair of switches have the same matching target - and I kind of like homemade "accessories" from way back when - so I have left them in there.
Here are the two types of turnouts side by side:
In addition, AF also offered an automatic version of these turnouts without a switchstand. It isn't sprung, I assume that it was just intended to be used in trailing point applications. I have two different variations of the automatic turnout, one with the "American Flyer" embossed script, the other plain. This is the plain version:
Note that the pivot is in a different place than on the regular turnouts. There isn't any provision for a switchstand, either.
Do any of you have examples of the early AF turnouts shown in this catalog illustration?
- James
James,
I think I have seen clockwork track plans where there is an oval track set up with a circle of track inside the oval at one end. This track setup would require two switch track sections, one on each side where the circle track connects to the oval. I guess to keep the cost of the train set as low as possible, only one of the switches has a throw mechanism and the second switch did not. Like the last switch pictured in your posting, it would allow the train to run coming into it from the straight side or the curved side.
Strainst, I think you are exactly right. I don't believe that AF sold any clockwork trains with reverse, so they would always run forward. The automatic switch would work fine for the trailing point end of the passing siding, since the train would never back up and run through it in the opposite direction. The track plan you described is the one that I used for a small clockwork demo layout that I take to train shows. This video was taken on that simple layout; I made the video to show the operation of the Flyer automatic switch:
d9YViNNOakA
Here are pictures of some switches that match the catalog drawing that you showed. I am honestly not sure if they are flyer switches or not. I have not verified what year the drawing you show is from, but I am guessing it must be c. 1914? Anyway, here they are.
NWL, Thank you for posting all the pictures and the information. I don't know what year the catalog is that I scanned the switch illustration from; it is actually an old reprint (1959) of an early Flyer catalog. I haven't seen any original date in the text or drawings.
One reason for the question about the switch in the illustration is that I have a spring switch in the collection that I have been told is an early AF switch. It resembles the switch in the illustration except for the lack of a switchstand. As far as I can tell, it hasn't been modified; it appears that it never had a switchstand, and the spring on the underside appears to be original to the switch. The switch has a lever that can be used to throw it to the straight route, but it must be held in place or it will spring back to the diverging position:
Based on your pictures, it does appear to be the same switch with the exception of the missing switchstand. I suppose that since AF sold an automatic switch in the newer style, it is possible that they sold this earlier version as an automatic spring switch, too... assuming that these are the switches shown in that catalog illustration.
Your second set of switches are equally interesting! I didn't know that some Flyer clockwork track had the crimped ties in that style. It rang a bell with me, so I dug through a box of track I have hoarded away... and sure enough, I found a pair of switches like yours. One is missing the switchstand and the headblock tie it is attached to, the other is complete but very beat up with multiple broken solder joints... hence the reason I hadn't rescued them from the box yet. Now that I know what they are, I will put them on the to-do list to get them usable.
One last question: Did AF ever offer a 3 way switch? I have one in the collection that was a basket case. It was in the same lot as the AF switches I just dug out. I have repaired it, but had to make a few non-original parts to do so. It was originally soldered together in the same way that these AF switches have the rails soldered to the wide ties.
Again, Thank you for the pictures and information,
Flyer made at least one other spring switch without a switchstand for the electric trains. I posted pictures of the switches on this thread but I can't recall offhand the page number.
The switch you show in your picture is nearly identical to the one I have, with the exception of the switch throw mechanism.
As for a 3 way switch, I am unaware of Flyer making such an item, but who knows. I seem to recall that some of the german manufacturers (bing, ???) made 3 way and Y switches and have seen photos of some of these over the years.
I know that Flyer did make/sell an unusual switch for an early set and I have the remains of such a switch. This early set from c. 1914-1916 featured a double track set (inner and outer loops), a freight set, a passenger set, possibly some accessories, and switches to go between the two loops of track. The interesting thing about the switches is that they contained portions of both loops of track, with the switch track connecting between them. I am not sure that I described that right, but essentially, the switches had straight tracks for both loops and a switch between them. The main, long ties had the straights for both loops soldered to them. As I said, I have remains for these switches, but not enough to make one. I know I have at least one of the long ties with solder marks for both of the straights.
I recently showed this engine to Alan Schuweiler and NorthwoodsFlyer at a local train show. Alan indicated that his opinion of the engine was that it was a factory made item, which was my opinion as well. He was not sure if it is a one-of-a-kind item or if it was one of the first 75 electric engines (per a known factory memo) that American Flyer made to test the market in 1918.
The motor has a couple of unusual features, most notably the round/tube brushes that did not appear on regular production American Flyer motors until c. 1925.
Another notable thing about the motor is that although the armature brackets do not match the known / regular production brackets, these items were not something that were added after it was made, because their mounting holes are spaced differently from the known / regular production bracket mounting holes and there are no extra holes in the motor frame. Therefore, these brackets and their mounting are unique and original to this motor.
Oh, and the consensus is that all of the gold detail / trim paint is not original to the motor and was likely added by a former child owner.
As to the provenance / history of the item, I have none, other than it was purchased out of the Chicago area in late 2013, reportedly being picked out of a flea market.
If anyone has any thoughts on this motor I would appreciate them.
mersenne6 Flyer made at least one other spring switch without a switchstand for the electric trains. I posted pictures of the switches on this thread but I can't recall offhand the page number.
Mersenne6,
You have a posting about electric switches #405 back on page 27. Is this the post you are thinking of?
Look here 27
Thanks for all of the great information about switches folks. I had no idea that Flyer made so many for clockwork trains.
Northwoods Flyer
Northwoods, yup, that's the switch. NWL - I think the double switch you are referring to is the switch set up for Flyer Set M20. There's a picture of the complete set back on page 10, however the picture was set up to mirror the catalog cut so the switch assembly isn't obvious. If I have the time this weekend I'll pull the set out and take a picture of the switch assembly.
That is the set/switch I was referring to. Although I have the set, I did not get the switches with the set, only the remains of one switch.
Here is a drawing of the double switch from the same AF catalog that I posted from before (unknown year):
That one is definitely on the wish list...
I have a matched pair of crossovers similar but not exactly the same as 218 above, but have not been able to upload a picture. Is there an email address to which I can send a jpg?
I sent my email to JDET1 and he promptly sent me the following photos. I agree with JamesP; these are definitely now on my "Wanted List" too. I am going to have to stop coming to this thread. I keep finding more and more areas of Flyer production that I would like to collect.
The willingness of participants to share information and photos is one of the things that I enjoy about this forum.
mersenne6 Northwoods, yup, that's the switch. NWL - I think the double switch you are referring to is the switch set up for Flyer Set M20. There's a picture of the complete set back on page 10, however the picture was set up to mirror the catalog cut so the switch assembly isn't obvious. If I have the time this weekend I'll pull the set out and take a picture of the switch assembly.
If you would like to go back to page 10 and see mersenne6's post click here 10
Those are the switches that I was talking about and it is great to see a photo of them. I acquired a set similar to the set Mersenne6 showed on page 10, except I did not get the switches, only the remains of one of the switches (the long tie at the end of the switches that goes between the two sets of track). However, I got a similar passenger set and similar freight set. The only difference I saw relating to Mersenne6's set is that I have a more unusual gondola with my set. My understanding of American Flyer cars / production features, leads me to believe that this car dates to 1915-1916 production, which would be slightly earlier than the 1109 with winged locomotive that Mersenne6 shows with his set. However, since the set was apparently cataloged for a couple of years in the mid to late teens, there are likely differences between the differing sets, depending on when they were produced.
The gondola that came with my #20 set was the brown one pictured below.
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