Now arriving on track #1 ..... Railroads from Yesteryear! Number Three
Initially Posted: 03 Feb 2006, page 237 of the original ThreadPennsylvania Railroad
Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources. Locale: Chicago and St. Louis to New York City and Washington, DC Reporting marks: PRR Dates of operation: 1846 - 1968 Track gauge: 4 ft 8½ in (1435 mm) (standard gauge) Headquarters: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania The Pennsylvania Railroad (AAR reporting mark PRR) was an American railroad existing 1846-1968, after which it merged into Penn Central Transportation. Commonly referred to as the Pennsy, the company was headquartered in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The company's symbol was a keystone (Pennsylvania's symbol) with the letters PRR intertwined inside it. When colored, it was bright red with silver-grey edges and lettering (although it also appears in metal leaf outline on a wooden background on station benches). The PRR was the largest railroad by traffic and revenue in the US throughout its 20th century existence and for a long while was the largest publicly traded corporation in the world. The corporation still holds the record for the longest continual dividend history, over 100 years of never missing an annual shareholder payment. Like the Reading Railroad, the PRR served Atlantic City, New Jersey; one of the four railroad squares in the board game Monopoly is called Pennsylvania Railroad. Standard Railroad of the World The Pennsylvania Railroad, as the "standard railroad of the world", also strove for an air of permanence, decorating its railroad stations with symbols of itself. For a long time the PRR called itself the Standard Railroad of the World, meaning that it was the standard to which all other railroads aspired, the "gold standard". For a long time that was literally true; the railroad had an impressive lists of firsts, greatests, biggests and longests. The PRR was the first railroad to rid itself of wooden-bodied passenger cars in favor of the much safer steel-bodied cars. It led the way in many safety and efficiency improvements over the years. This advantage lessened as the years progressed, and the PRR eventually abandoned the use of the phrase. The Pennsylvania Railroad was standard in another way, too - it was an early proponent of standardization. While other railroads used whatever was to hand or available, the Pennsylvania tested and experimented with solutions until they could decide on one, and then made it standard across the whole company. Other railroads bought locomotives and railroad cars in small lots, taking whatever was available from manufacturers at the time. The PRR produced huge numbers of standardised designs. This gave the railroad a feel of uniformity and greatly reduced costs. The PRR was also an early adopter of standard liveries and color schemes. History The eastern part of the PRR's main line was built by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania as part of the Main Line of Public Works, a railroad and canal corridor across the state. The system opened in 1834, consisting of the Philadelphia and Columbia Railroad from Philadelphia west to Columbia on the Susquehanna River, a canal from Columbia to Hollidaysburg, the Allegheny Portage Railroad from Hollidaysburg to Johnstown, and another canal from Johnstown to the terminus in Pittsburgh. The Philadelphia and Columbia Railroad had one inclined plane at each end; the Allegheny Portage Railroad had ten. The Pennsylvania Railroad Company was chartered by the Pennsylvania legislature on April 13, 1846. Construction began in 1847 and the first section opened from Harrisburg west to Lewistown on September 1, 1849 (including the original Rockville Bridge across the Susquehanna River). Further extensions opened to McVeytown on December 24, Mount Union on April 1, 1850, Huntingdon on June 10, and Duncansville (west of Hollidaysburg) on September 16, 1850, taking it to a connection with the Allegheny Portage Railroad on the east side of the Allegheny Ridge. On the other side of the ridge, the main line opened from Conemaugh (on the Portage Railroad east of Johnstown) west to Lockport on August 25, 1851. On December 10, 1851, sections opened from Lockport west to Beatty (west of Latrobe) and from Pittsburgh east to Brinton, with a temporary stagecoach transfer between via the Southern Turnpike and a short turnpike branch built to Beatty. Part of that gap was filled on July 15, 1852, from Brinton east to Radebaugh, and on November 29 the full line was completed, forming the first all-rail route between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Plane Number 1 of the Portage Railroad was bypassed on April 1, 1852. Other planes began to be bypassed by the New Portage Railroad, completed in 1856, but on February 15, 1854 the PRR's new line opened, leaving the old one on the east side of the ridge in Altoona and running west via the Horseshoe Curve and Gallitzin Tunnel, only using a short portion of the old Portage Railroad near South Fork and a longer adjacent section of New Portage Railroad. A reciprocal trackage rights agreement made March 18, 1854allowed the PRR to use that section for free. On March 21, 1849 the PRR contracted with Eagle Line, primarily a steamboat company, for through service over the Philadelphia and Columbia Railroad. The PRR obtained trackage rights over the Portsmouth, Mount Joy and Lancaster Railroad, opened in 1838, on April 21, providing a route from Harrisburg to the Philadelphia and Columbia at Dillerville, just west of Lancaster. On September 1 the first section of the PRR opened, with all arrangements in place for service from Philadelphia to Lewistown. On December 20, 1860 the PRR formally leased the line west of Dillerville, renamed the Harrisburg, Portsmouth, Mount Joy and Lancaster Railroad in 1855. In 1853 the PRR surveyed the Lancaster, Lebanon and Pine Grove Railroad from Philadelphia west via Phoenixville to Salunga on the Portsmouth, Mount Joy and Lancaster Railroad. This was done in order to show the state that the PRR was willing to build its own alignment around the Philadelphia and Columbia. On July 31, 1857, the PRR bought the whole Main Line of Public Works. The Philadelphia and Columbia Railroad was integrated into its system. Most of the New Portage Railroad, just completed the previous year at a cost of $2.14 million, was abandoned, while short sections became local branches. The canals were abandoned, and short sections were fill
Courtesy: http://www.viarail.ca/
Wednesday's Witticism
Politician: Someone who can borrow $20, pay you back $10 and declare you're even because you both lost $10.
G'day Gents!
Mid-week in mid-continent USA - time for a cuppa Joe, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and a <light> or <traditional> breakfast to round it out.
Mets won! Mets won! Are they THAT good or are the Cards THAT slow in starting up??? Give credit where it's due, "they" say - but it's good for the River City fans that the bad guys didn't play this well last fall. <grin>
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS (since my last narrative):
CM3 at 9:23 AM yesterday: Back to full form and with quite a Post on the Pennsy too! Dittos to the accolades previously given - all well deserved, fer sure, fer sure!
Fine effort on the part of your son at the competition. I'm sure you and your bride are very proud of his efforts.
The "thing" about those special trains, such as "The Canadian," is that for people like me, we prefer to see ‘em the way they were in the best of times, not when "things" were beginning to spell the beginning of the end. When "Classic Trains" ran their special commemoration for the 50th anniversary of that fine train, they "blew it" with the centerfold Pix using the "action red' livery rather than the "original" maroon ‘n grey. That's my take on "it."
Your point on Penn Station being a "through" station as opposed to Grand Central being the ‘terminal" is a key point and one that I hope wasn't "lost." There is and was a significant difference. Appreciate your bringing it out.
Row houses with marble steps - yes! I remember ‘em from my stays in Baltimore during the summers of the late 1940s . . . Last time I visited those "old haunts" one needed an armored vehicle to drive the streets; sad.
Thanx for the round, quarters ‘n visit!
Lars at 10:57 AM yesterday: A fine Pennsy contribution AND for that - your wish is granted. NEXT Tuesday's Theme will be the New York Central. HOWEVER, YOU must "kick it off." That's the price one pays for offering a suggestion . . . .
Really enjoyed your book covers (as always) and I can still "see" those diesels and GG1s in my mind's eye.
DL at 12:05 PM yesterday: Our Euro-connection provided quite an elaboration on the TGVs new rail speed record.
Always good to have you aboard . . .
Pete at 4:10 PM ‘n 8:25 PM yesterday: Okay, we've dispelled the notion that the Wolfman resides in the "nether world of time zones." Now we've got to get him to begin preparing his Posts on the WP earlier in the day - like BEFORE the storms arrive! <grin>
Batteries in the mouse????? Hmmmmm, that's a "new one" on me. Haven't you ‘n I gone down that "street" before - batteries in Chicago ring a bell???
Rather stormy afternoon in these parts too. Things began to clear up just about 5 PM or so and Juneau's evening walk was without interference from the weather. Temps have dropped quite a bit, as predicated. <brrrrr>
Second visit was a bit of "redemption" and I suppose we'll have to let you "off the hook"! <grin> You have a way with ensuring that the bases get covered (something the Cardinals haven't done very well in their 1st two games! <uh oh>) and making ‘em inclusive ‘n informative.
The websites http://www.trainweb.org/ and http://www.trainweb.com/ are good places to do some searching for things like origins of passenger cars ‘n locos. Probably would take a month of Sundays just to "track" those Pennsy passenger cars, but my guess is the best of ‘em did indeed wind up with Amtrak.
Appreciate the GG1 Pix and before too long, we'll be seeing one up front and "personal" during the Rendezvous in St. Louis!
Doug at 6:22 PM ‘n 7:59 PM yesterday: A 2nd ‘n 3rd visit and a 2nd ‘n 3rd offering of Pennsy "stuff" too! Not having much background with steam locos, I particularly enjoyed the discussion of those locos of the late 1800s. Makes one think a bit about what was and where we have arrived. Nice selection!
Really enjoyed the Penn Station submission along with the "electric" loco info - well done! And many THANX for helping to make the "Theme Day" a success.
Appreciate the dependability once again!
Mike at 9:30 PM yesterday: The URLMeisterMonster dropped off quite the "list" and I'll have to go thru ‘em later on - THANX!
James at 10:16 PM yesterday: Thanx for taking the time and making the effort to swing on by with those Pennsy URLs!
Good morning Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!
No, thank you Leon, I must leave in a few minutes, so I'll just have a cup of coffee! I know, same as last night!
A lot to read about PRR today! I am impressed! This took much more time than expected!
Doug – A very interesting article about PRR and some of its locomotives (and signals). Never heard about engine #318 before! Also interesting to read about Class P and Class K! I wonder when the last locomotives of those classes were retired? I visited Sunnyside yard a couple of times. An interesting and different place! Nice pictures of the electrics including GG1!Tom – Good news from Rob. Hope to see him soon!I agree 100% about being careful with copyrighted stuff. That is why I only use my own pictures and some I got from friends that gave me permission to use their pictures. I don’t think I would start in Nova Scotia, Toronto is okay for me for a trip across most of Canada. Glad you liked the GG1. I actually got a model of GG1 from Amtrak when I left.Thanks for the PRR info and posters! At least I can say I have been riding on most of PRR’s old main lines! Never to Atlantic City though! PRR had a lot of named trains! Interesting list of their routes!The X2000 ran as Congressional Special 05/16/93.Very nice pictures of GG1s, E-44s and F-units! Thank you!CM3 – Congratulations to the youg man! I would say 6th is very good out of 100+. Geography was my favorite subject in school! That interest made me start collecting maps and I still do. Thanks for the trip from Penn Station to Baltimore! When I read your story I could see the places you mentioned in front of me! I guess the Penn Station you mentioned is the one that is no more. Today everything is down in the basement under Madison Square Garden! But I like it anyway.
Penn Station 1993.
The Hudson Tunnel.
Lars – Nice Pennsy book covers! Wish I had those books, but I don’t know when I would have time enough to read them all! DL – 357.2 mph by TGV 150 today! Below is a link to a video about today’s event!http://a456.g.akamai.net/7/456/34233/v2/sncf1.download.akamai.com/34233/jour_j/post_record/popup_post_record_en.htmlThanks for all info on the train and everything around it! 357.2 mph is kind of fast. Pete – I know QPR have been struggling for a number of years now. Too sad. Nice picture of GG1 4890! I can see that the rear pantograph is “reaching” for the sky! Mike – A lot of Url’s with pictures from the North East Corridor plus some other places! I especially like the one of Union Station, Washington D.C. where you can see K-Tower and that turntable. I did not know there used to be a turntable at that location! James – Let the snow melt away! Thanks for those pictures! Baldwin BP-60 was a different one to say the least!
Eric
G-day Tom and all present!
Leon- A coffee will do me for now, thanks!
I will drop off my Pennsy pics and have acknowlegements tomorrow.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=171315
This would be located in North Philadelphia at the station entrance on the Pennsy.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=172297
How about a GG1. They were some cool looking electrics besides the Little Joe and th Box Cab!
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=181585
What about the largest locomotives here in North America if not the world. The Pennsy's Baldwin made Cenntipedes. They have to be one of the largest that I know of. What monsters.
Enjoy!
Sorry for the quick post but I have to go out and finish the snow blowing. We got over a foot in 12 hours... yikes.
James
Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house
Pennsylvania Railroad
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b00000/3b05000/3b05000/3b05039r.jpg
Philadelphia Broad Street Station
http://www.prrths.com/Phila_Images/broad_1841.JPG
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/pa/pa1000/pa1046/photos/138282pv.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/pa/pa1000/pa1046/photos/138287pv.jpg
West Philadelphia
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b00000/3b05000/3b05000/3b05041r.jpg
Harrisburgh
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b00000/3b05000/3b05000/3b05043r.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/pa/pa0900/pa0995/photos/133454pv.jpg
Hackensack substation & Hudson River tunnel portal
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/nj/nj0900/nj0939/photos/112366pv.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/nj/nj0900/nj0939/photos/112367pv.jpg
Newark
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/nj/nj0900/nj0939/photos/112350pv.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/nj/nj0900/nj0939/photos/112361pv.jpg
http://67.15.20.45/images/r/rn1-242.jpg.50203.jpg
Elizabeth, NJ
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/nj/nj0900/nj0939/photos/112349pv.jpg
Trenton, NJ
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/nj/nj0900/nj0939/photos/112333pv.jpg
Philadelphia 30th Street Station
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/pa/pa1400/pa1447/photos/140427pv.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/pa/pa1400/pa1447/photos/140425pv.jpg
Wilmington
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/de/de0200/de0240/photos/032244pv.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/de/de0200/de0240/photos/032248pv.jpg
Baltimore
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/md/md0600/md0603/photos/086297pv.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/md/md0600/md0603/photos/086304pv.jpg
Washington
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/dc/dc0500/dc0507/photos/030163pv.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/dc/dc0500/dc0507/photos/030166pv.jpg
http://67.15.20.45/images/p/PC6812181034w.jpg.27435.jpg
Jersey City
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/photos/images/pc_jerseycity.jpg
http://www.jerseycityonline.com/jc_photos/old/i-1rt54.jpg
New York
http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/51743312.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=E8AD80131F4169CC73E967FFCB3467C5
http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/2559/imagesxs7cd.jpg
http://images.nypl.org/?id=1558476&t=w
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/160/331934701_03ab049582_b.jpg
http://www.architectureweek.com/cgi-bin/awimage?dir=2003/0723&article=building_1-2.html&image=12210_image_3.jpg
Horseshoe Curve
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/0/015_15_3.jpg.45562.jpg
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/0/017_17_2.jpg.33483.jpg
Long Island Rail Road
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/26/44300266_08fb00c35f_b.jpg
Subway map
http://www.columbia.edu/%7Ebrennan/subway/SubwayMap.gif
Light reading, Origin of Railway Semaphore
http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/railway/semaphor/semhist.htm
Hi Tom and all.
A pint of Bathams and another round, for a great Pennsy Theme day, please LEON.
I think you all have done justice to what; no doubt was one of the greatest railroads in North America. Started by ERIC with the photo of the GG1 in the freight livery, that is another of those wonderful liveries that seem to change color with the lighting conditions, like the D&H blue. DOUG with those great steam photos and very full descriptions. It was good to see a photo of the Altoona test plant. There was one in my hometown it was one of two in Britain.
I can only echo LARS thoughts on the marvelously evocative piece by CM3. It really would be great to travel that route with CM3 as a guide but I would imagine it is a far different scene today. Then those wonderful Pennsy book covers by LARS, it would interesting to know how the Pennsy got on with those Fairbanks Morse diesel locomotives. Well TOM a great PRR day, I can see why it is one of your favorite roads. The list of named trains is impressive as we have said before a name to a train gives that extra feeling of occasion when traveling by rail. I wonder how many of those 3,546 passenger cars in1963 were passed on to Amtrak. Many thanks for those great posters and yes that is some very fine railroad art indeed, you can almost here those locomotives in the paintings.
Certainly a to you all,Gentlemen
I see that no less than 16 GG1s have been preserved with PRR # 4918 in the Museum of Transportation at St Louis
GG1 4890 at the NRM Green Bay WIS
ERIC I have got interested on those Grampian cars and I will find out more. When I looked for references on the net a couple of links referred me to Our Place. I think Tom should get a fee for every view.
QPR had a very good side at one time although they are struggling a bit lately.
DOUG I too looked at the IRM web site for those 900s. I do hope one was saved.
Don't know what to say about the Panda joke.
CM3 Can you pass on my CONGRATULATIONS to the young man on such a great result in the Geography Tournament.
Glad you enjoyed the steam photos and thanks for the kind words on my ‘promotion', not many have thought me a management material..
Well you see LARS, if it was 10.15 PM in England it would be 3.15 pm here so I would be on time. I blame it all on changing the clocks.
I see you noted as well the new French Speed record; well they can have it with these new fangled machines as long as we have the one that really matters, with steam.
DL Thanks for the links and the details on the French record breaking run. They certainly went to great lengths and spent a lot of money to make it a success, even raising the supply voltage. I don't know about you, but I don't think the Maglev can be counted as a rail speed record, as when it achieves those speeds it is not in contact with the rails, but that is just my humble opinion.
TOM Glad the link to the KC Star worked OK. Perhaps we should have a competition what will go wrong with my puter next.No prize for saying it is the operator
It is great that ROB may be back at the bar soon. I sure could do with some more advice on the chandeling I was hoping to perhaps get a new puter with the wages but my bar bill is much larger than the pay Lars gives me.
I hope you did not get the storm which as passed through. I think Juneau will appreciate the cooler temperature, which as followed the storm..
I see Doug has posted some more on the PRR. So I will post this have a beer and have a read so set them up please LEON
Pete.
.
Evening again Tom and friends. I'm ready for another bottomless draught. Is anyone ready for another round? The following is from a 1989 Electroliner magazine:
PENN STATION TODAY
General Electric E60 locomotives handle both Amtrak and New Jersey Transit trains, although most Amtrak service is handled by the high performance AEM-7, a locomotive also under consideration by New Jersey Transit. Various classes of stainless steel commuter equipment replaced the old MP54 cars by the late 1970s. Metroline service, very well patronized, is handled by locomotives rather than the fast multiple-unit cars of 1969. On the Long Island side, since the early 1970s, standard M-1 (and newer M-3) commuter cars have replaced numerous varieties of older equipment. Locomotive-hauled trains disappeared prior to the retirement of the DD-1 locomotives in 1952, but may return behind rebuilt dual-service FL9 units which last visited Penn Station with New Haven equipment in the 1960s.
PRR L-6 No. 4790 was one of the last class to toil around the Penn Station complex. March 25, 1967. Allan Roberts
A repainted B-1 "Rat" No. 3913 switching the varnish at Sunnyside Yard New York for the flagship trains of the great Tuscan Red Mainline
Totally gone are the boxcab switchers as all yard work is handled by diesels, or by an electric unit in the enclosed station yard. The aging Long Island Rail Road substations were transferred to utility power. Like the old station service building on West 31st Street, it remains a hulking remnant of the PT&T project, although it has been sold for other uses.
DD-1s 4780 and 4781, the last of their kind are safe in the hands of the Pennsylvania State Transportation Museum in Strasburg, Pa. DD-1s extended their useful lives by hauling wire trains to repair overhead in the tunnels in and out of Penn Station
L6A No. 5940 rests at Penn Station. 5940 was the only Lima-built L6A to be electrically completed and operated. The others rusted at Altoona, Pennsylvania, never turning a revenue wheel
Modernization of the current station plus a new Long Island entry west of 8th Avenue will ease crowding. Long Island service has been improved by a new storage yard near 11th Avenue. An anticipated connection will allow Amtrak service from upstate New York to enter over the former New York Central West Side Freight Line. Technical modernization in the areas of signaling, dispatching and other systems will improve operation. Although the magnificent building designed by McKim, Mead and White and built by George Fuller in 79 months was destroyed in less than 36, the great engineering effort remains. Performing as it was intended, the efficient complex is both the busiest Amtrak and the busiest commuter facility in the nation. Made possible by electrification, Alexander Cassatt's achievement is now the only U.S. rail facility with every long-distance run operated either totally or in major part by electric power.
Other candidates for switching duty at Penn Station were the class O-1 locomotives. No. 7583 sits at Penn Station in 1960 along with GG-1s and New Haven EP-3s.
It's March 8, 1960 and GG-1 No. 4884 has just emerged from the Hudson River tunnel connecting Manhattan Island and New Jersey. The large left gate doors built to seal off the tunnels in case of emergency. A large office building now covers this sections of the approach to Penn Station.
[I:]Sitting in the bar George asked his 40-year-old buddy Johnny, "How come you
aren't married?"
Johnny: "I haven't found the right woman yet."
George: "So what are you looking for?"
Johnny: "Oh she's got to be real pretty, - a good cook and house-keeper, and
she's got to know how to handle money, a really nice and pleasant personality is
a must -and money, she's got to have money...and a home, a nice big house, is
what she has to have."
George: "A woman like that would be crazy to marry YOU."
Johnny: "Oh, its okay if she is crazy." [I:]
Good evening Tom and gang. I'll have a bottomless draught and buy a round for the house. Nice PRR routes, train names, pictures and posters from you today. Absolutely incredible first-hand accountings from CM3 today, who combines a talent for noticing detail during his many rail excursions. Very well done, and very interesting. Wonderful book covers from manager Lars today too. All look very interesting. Lars posted the new French rail record speed, and DL provided the link with all the info. Thanks for sharing go to both of you. Looks like Peter is first to catch the storms rolling east. We're about 67 degrees here right now, but soon to drop to 29. Unbelievable. Here is another Pennsy piece:
Pennsy Steam and Semaphores by Fred Westing
On the Pennsylvania Railroad in the 1890's, the brunt of passenger train operations was borne by locomotives of the American 4-4-0 type. The wheel arrangement had long been established on most American railroads, and as trains grew heavier and schedules speedier the American type was merely made larger and more powerful to meet those newer conditions.
During most of the 19th century's last decade, class P was the Pennsy's most advanced design of this type. Contemporary with class P, was class O, another 4-4-0 type locomotive. Both classes worked passenger trains on the Philadelphia Division. On the Middle Division between Harrisburg and Altoona, class O was a fixture of high-speed passenger service. West of Pittsburgh class O was used on the best trains as some were ten-wheelers of the 4-6-0 type. Originally class X, and later class G3, with 68" drivers, they also worked the top-name trains, and frequently headed the Pennsylvania Limited. This class made its appearance in road service in 1893, when they were built.
Class P did exceptionally fine work on the two-hour trains between New York and Philadelphia. Here they duplicated speed made by trains fifty years later. This does not mean that progress was not made, for train loads of the nineties were comparatively light with 300 tons considered very heavy, while 130 tons was about the average train weight. It should be pointed out that while locomotives were much larger in later years, trains were correspondingly heavier. Average train loads ran from 600 to 800 tons, and trains exceeding 1,000 tons frequently made the schedules with power in reserve, while the old locomotives of the nineties with their much lighter loads were pushed to the limit of their power.
Among the name trains in the decade of the 1890's and early twentieth century, was one of the oldest named trains in the United States. It was known as the "Fast Line" and ran between New York and Pittsburgh. This name was derived from the Pioneer Fast Line which operated in the 1830's, and by means of railroad and canal boat transportation conveyed passengers and freight between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh in 3 ½ days. Another fine train in the 1890's was the Pennsylvania Limited, originated in 1881 as the New York & Chicago Limited.
In 1893 a large addition was made to the original Broad Street Station building. This new building was designed by Furness, Evans & CO. architects of Philadelphia. The first Broad Street Station building was designed and built by Wilson Brothers of Philadelphia. This was the section that included the distinctive clock tower at the northern end of the station. Opened in December 1881, it made connection with the main line in West Philadelphia by means of an elevated multitracked structure known for many years to Philadelphia as the Chinese Wall. A four-tracked steel bridge, also the work of Wilson Brothers & Co. carried trains across the Schulylkill River.
Preceding classes O and P, but doing much work in the 1890's was a locomotive introduced on the road in 1881. Known as class K, it represented high efficiency for that day. Of a group of eighteen the first one was No. 10, and engineer John A. Covert, who later became Road Foreman of Engines, of the New York Division, brought engine 10 from Altoona to that division in June 1881. Engine No. 10 was quickly named "long legged Ten" due to its high-wheeled 78 inch drivers, accentuated in great part by the seemingly small boiler. This engine with its general cleanlined appearance and omission of the former gingerbread mouldings seen on most locomotives in those days possessed unusual symmetry for an American locomotive.
On class K the firebox was placed on top of the main frames which made it shallow at the throat sheet. Subsequently all Pennsy standard 4-4-0's provided for a deeper firebox throat by inclining the top main frame rails downwardly at the front.
A novel feature on class K was the use of a power reverse gear. This was a desirable detail on a locomotive using 140 lb. steam pressure with unbalanced slide valves. The combined use of steam and oil which locked the gear in any desired position was operated by a small lever in the cab. While reliable in service, it was abandoned when balanced slide valves came into use.
An interesting comparison was made between engine No. 10 and No. 724, one of the older engines of class A (later class D1) is listed below:
During the week ending June 18, 1881, the car mileage of engine No. 10 was 7,209 miles and , therefore, the total consumption of coal was 7,209 X 8.32 equals 59,978.8 lbs. If we take the same car mileage for engine No. 724, we would have a coal consumption of 7,209 X 12.76 equals 91,986.8 lbs., or a savings in one week of 91,986.8 minus 59,978.8 equals 32,008 lbs. by engine No. 10.
Both engines were of the 4-4-0 type, but class K was, as shown, indicative of progressive development as compared with Pennsy 4-4-0 American type engines that preceded it.
Class K was the work of Theodore N. Ely, then Superintendent of Motive Power at Altoona, and from 1893 to 1911, Chief of Motive Power of the Pennsylvania Railroad east and west of Pittsburgh. Mr. Ely's artistic ability was responsible for much of class K's uncluttered lines, and Axel Vogt, his ever capable Mechanical Engineer at Altoona, ably assisted him in this approach to locomotive construction by his meticulous attention to the design of many of the engine's details.
To show the speed capabilities of these class K locomotives, two instances can be cited. On March 10, 1890, Albert M. Palmer's Madison Square Theatre Company, traveled on a three-car special train from New York to Washington, D.C. The occasion was to provide a performance of the play "Aunt Jack" which many Washingtonians were anxious to see.
Over the New York Division the original K class engine No. 10, rushed the train to Philadelphia (Grays Ferry) in considerably less than two hours, averaging about 57 mph for the entire distance. From that point class P engine No. 35, similar in many respects to class K, but with 68" drivers, made the run to Washington in 2 hours and 35 minutes, averaging nearly 60 mph, start-to-stop. Considering the fact that this latter part of the trip was double-tracked only, for a considerable distance, and traffic so heavy that several slow downs had to be made, commendable credit is due the train dispatchers and engine crew on this more difficult and lengthier part of the run.
Mr. Palmer had stipulated with the railroad that at the conclusion of the Washington performance, his theatrical group would have to immediately return to New York as they were committed to present an eight o'clock performance that evening in New York City. Again classes P and K gave their "performance" and the show that same evening made its scheduled appearance.
"Long legged ten" as it came from Altoona. Put into road service on March 25, 1881, this was the pioneer of the famous "K" class. With their 78 inch drivers they were real high-wheelers, and could make good speed. Later, these locomotives had extended smokeboxes with the headlight supported on top of it.
A round for the house please RUTH.
Hopefully to save myself a'Tweeting'.We have had a round of heavy Thunder-storms round here and the siren went off twice, so I have only just got on the puter, then the batteries in the mouse gave out.. Anyway I have a quick glance at the posts and want to have a good read before I post so hopefully I will be in later provided the storms have finished.
The storms are heading east I hope they abate before they get to where you are TOM.
Theme for the Day! - Theme for the Day!
Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR)
A trio of GG-1's take a train near Chase, Maryland.
(Courtesy of artist: Gilbert Bennett - www.xmission.com)
A pennsy "Truck Train" pulled by E-44s near Lancaster, PA.
A brace of Pennsy F-units bring a train downhill into Altoona, PA.
The Broadway Limited
Some of the finest RR art around, wouldn't you agree
Tom
Named Passenger Trains
from the Classic Era - Number One
Caveat: This list is not intended to be all inclusive but rather a compilation reflective of perhaps the more noted trains of the day.
The Pennsylvania Railroad operated several dozen named passenger trains. They include:
Hello all
Just a quick beer while I post this link (picks up on Lars message)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6521295.stm
and
From today's paper:
France's famous TGV, the Train à Grande Vitesse, is about to get even faster. The high-speed train will try to break its own world record today by rocketing along at least 335 mph.
French rail officials confirmed the attempt would go ahead after checking weather forecasts. With the right meteorological conditions, the TGV may even reach speeds of up to 354...mph, breaking the 320.2mph record it set 17 years ago.
The modified black V150 train consisting of three double-decker cars sandwiched between two engines, will make the attempt on the new high-speed line between Paris and Strasbourg on France's border with Germany.
The French state rail operator SNCF says it has already broken the record on several test runs since January, reaching speeds of 342 mph. These speeds have not, however, been officially verified.
"This is the official day," said an SNCF spokesman. "There will be monitors in place and we'll see what speed we can hit."
The attempt, which is planned to start at 13.01, is expected to be broadcast live on French lunchtime television news. Travelling from Strasbourg, the V150 is expected to go from 0 to 62 mph in 60 seconds. It is scheduled to reach its maximum speed after around 15 minutes.
The V150 - named for the target number of metres it should do per second - has larger wheels than a normal TGV to cover more ground with each rotation. The electricity in the overhead cable has been boosted from 25,000 volts to 31,000v.
Two of its cars have been turned into rolling laboratories monitoring every second of the record-breaking attempt, which will also be filmed by plane.
Driving the train, and fulfilling every young boy's dream, is Eric Pieczak, 46, who has been operating TGVs since last year.
"He'll have his eyes riveted to the control board because at more than [342mph] the countryside will be passing too fast to see anything at all," said an SNCF spokesman. "He's in charge of acceleration and braking which must be done in a finely honed and progressive manner."
A traction engineer will direct the driver at what point to increase the speed and a third engineer will oversee the operation. One hundred police officers and gendarmes will be stationed along the route to guarantee security and bridges over the high-speed line will be closed to traffic.
The train, manufactured by Alstom, took 300 engineers more than 14 months to make. It measures 106 metres (348ft), weighs 268 tonnes and has 25,000hp engines.
The record attempt is the culmination of several months of tests and trials estimated to have cost at least £20m.
Engineers have been building the state-of-the-art Paris-to-Strasbourg TGV line for five years. It is one of the biggest rail projects in Europe employing some 10,000 workers and 78,000 tonnes of steel - the equivalent of eight Eiffel towers. It will open in June.
In Britain the country's fastest train is the Eurostar which can reach speeds of up to 186mph. However, travelling at 354mph the TGV would cover the distance between London to Edinburgh in 64 minutes.
Engineers say data from tomorrow's test will also improve the security and comfort of passengers in the future.
"Beyond the technical exploit, this is part of an attempt to record data on the behaviour of the infrastructure and of the rolling stock in extreme conditions, which are impossible to reproduce in the laboratory," said a joint statement from SNCF, Alstom and the network operator, RFF.
It added that everything, including the infrastructure, rails and weather, had been meticulously checked.
"Such a project does not leave anything to chance."
Ahoy Cap'n Tom ‘n fellow travelers at the bar!
I MUST make "public" comment about my "bookend" - BK. That email he sent to a limited number of us really "got to me." Surely am doing the best I can in passing positive thoughts their way. Lydia is as close to being "one of us" as any. Such a sad and hopefully not tragic turn of events. ‘nuf said.
Ruth my deAH, would you care to join me "upstairs" for a bit o' <light> breakfast I'm sure Boris can watch things for a bit . . . . oooooh, yeah, I forgot, Tom doesn't permit him behind the bar. <drat it>
I think a mugga coffee with a "jolt" should get me started along with a couple of goodies from the bakery case. Keep the change my deAH! <grin>
Excellent "point" brought up by Da Boss. That "copyright" stuff isn't anything to fool with and take it from me - who has been admonished by Kalmbach - doesn't matter whether you agree with the "rules" or not, best to be SURE of your material B4 posting it. (We probably should mention this more often ‘round here . . . .)
Noted that a French TGV has just set a new rail speed record of 357.2 mph.
So, ‘tis PENNSY Day here at the bar by the ballast and a return to the Tuesday "theme." May I suggest the New York Central for next week???? Huh, huh, PU-LEEEEEZE!
Nice work from Da Boss for the PRR Fallen Flag submission!
Not to repeat what's already been said, just want to make note of the posts from the guys since I was last "in." What in the world is going on with Wolfman??? Can't seem to figure out mid to late afternoon, huh?? And to think the Prime Meridian passes through Merry Olde! <grin>
Not the busiest of Mondays, and there was a bit of a drought, however, always pleasing to see the guys (Doug - Shane - James - Pete - Eric) in support of what our Proprietor has put forth for us all. Nice work, gents!
No guys, the "present" from Ruth is "personal" and after all, we ARE in the place where the "world can see," as Doug reminded us! <grin>
Didja "catch" that near-professional "job" put out by Shane this morning on the Pennsy??? Man oh man does he know how to put it together. The descriptions were about as "real" as could be and truly brought to mind some stirring thoughts of those times ‘n places. A fantastic and most appreciated piece of work from the man they call "coalminer"! A gold-5 Salute to Shane!
Ok - so, now it's my turn for some Pennsy "stuff" - watch out world, here she comes! <grin>
Until the next time!
Lars
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house; and $ for the jukebox. Gas is $2.80 this a.m. and it supposed to be warm today followed by about five days in the 20s with snow.
Where to begin? First, thanks to all for expressions of support re the young man and the Geography Bee. We survived our trip to Charleston; he made the finals and came in 6th out of a field of well over 100. The tournament is run similar to Jeopardy; they do map work, picture work, oral questions, etc; all with a 15 second time limit to come up with an answer. Preliminary rounds were held in smaller groups; final was on sate in the auditorium at the Charleston Civic Center. As he said, "It was a lot of fun." He won a bunch of loot, both for himself and for his school. As I am quick to tell folks, he got all of his "smarts" from his mom - that way I don't have to sleep outside (LOL). BTW, when we were leaving Charleston that afternoon I saw a WB coal train on the C&O. Two large GEs for power and a bunch of coal cars, some still lettered FRISCO - something for the fallen flags group.
Lots of material accumulated in the box while I was offline. I have tried to group comments by contributors - anyone got left out, my apologies.
Lars stopped by with lots of commentaries and book covers; I saw two D&H items which looked interesting; I'll put them on my list for my next visit to the frozen north.
DL stopped by with material as well - thanks for the tram information.
Pete - I see from your remarks that the State of Missouri is going through what I call "Train off kabuki." It happens every year, and every year cooler heads prevail.. Come into the rat room and we can discuss it - just remember, logic and common sense do not, repeat, do not enter into the equation. Congratulations on your recent "election" as bar chandler. We always knew he was management material, didn't we, boys. Also many thanks for the steam photos - they enlarged fine.
Barndad has been with us as well; Check out the fireboxes on the D&H locomotives in the first picture - let's just say they burned what they mined. Also thanks for the CSS&SB material and the OEM pictures - that PCC is lovely. Also enjoyed "Chicken Run," and the model pictures. Along with the tri-level auto racks.
James provided some interesting GP30 material. I posted, on the old thread, a long piece about GP30s on the C&O. We never saw too many 30s here in the coalfields until CSX started a program to turn them into slugs; then they began showing up here.
Mike sent pictures - P51s and RDCs; never let it be said we are not wide-ranging. The RDC at Sharon was photographed on the ruling grade on the old New Haven Shore Line. Don't look too hard at the track - pretty scary stuff for a main line. Anyway, it's all under wire now and aprt of the NEC line between New York and Boston.
Dave - Good to hear from you.
Eric sent lots of stuff including pictures of electrification near Philadelphia, Pt. of Rocks (been there), tri-levels, and a rare beastie - a PE cab!
OSP is keeping busy as well - I have not seen "World' Fastest Indian." "White Squall" ran on one of the movie channels on our cable system awhile back, so I got to see it then. "Minimal lettuce?" I much prefer "Surreal Salsa." Anyway, "You want fries with that?" Last, thanks for the UK nostalgia and the Canadian information with posters - I especially enjoyed the "Across Canada" CP poster. Incidentally, pictures like the one you mentioned in the Railroad History are what makes the railroad interesting, IMHO.
Now, today is PRR day. So here goes.
Barndad has provided an interesting excerpt from Fred Westing's Pennsy Steam and Semaphores. This book resides on one of the PRR shelves in the east wing. The pictures clearly show that all PRR power definitely did not look alike.
OSP has provided some PRR reference material as well, again with some fine posters.
The following is from the notebooks - I posted some of it a loooong time ago on the old thread; but this has lots of additional material.
If Grand Central was elegant, then Pennsylvania Station was huge, utilitarian, and intimidating until you understood its layout. Penn Station differed operationally from Grand Central since it was a through station while Grand Central was a terminal station. Penn Station was a place where things happened out in the open, and I always felt more "at home" there than at Grand Central. I could see commuter trains, mail trains (the main NY Post Office was right next door), hourly departures of trains to and from Philadelphia, and the arrival and departure of trains to and from the south and to and from midwestern outpost such as St. Louis and Chicago. This is not to say that the NYC didn't put on a similar show at Grand Central, but it was not as accessible.
The air along Penn Station's platforms was acrid with brake shoe smoke and harsh with glaring lights. I could hear the whining of traction motors and the roar of blowers as a GG1 slide by. A couple of tracks over was an insanely loud pounding as a carman worked on a recalcitrant coupler. There, on another track was a Florida-bound train, its cars freshly cleaned and restocked at Sunnyside, loading passengers. There were a lot of different sleepers on that one; 10 and 6 cars, all bedroom cars, and some with special accommodations such as drawing rooms and compartments. It was impossible to see everything, so I had to make some hard choices. I always liked to see the Broadway with its twin-unit dining car and flat ended "View" series observation car. This was certainly different then the dirty P70s and mail cars that I rode to and from Providence. This, then, was Pennsylvania Station, if I had time to look around when I was there.
Many times, however, Penn Station was just a stop on the way to other places. We'd get back on the train, and settle back in our seats. We were now behind a GG1 - mightiest electric of all - and about to ride over what was the busiest stretch of railroad in the country; if not the world. Our train began to accelerate quickly after we started moving. Just south of the station was an open area where if I looked fast I could see cuts of cars from the Long Island Rail Road and quite often two or three New Haven Railroad electric locomotives, my last glimpse of New Haven power until my next trip.
We entered the long tunnel under the river which took us from New York to New Jersey. My ears would really pop in here. Then it seemed as if we were catapulted from the tunnel out onto the high fill where the Pennsy mail line crossed the Jersey Meadows. We crossed the river at Harrison on a high lift bridge and slowed for the station at Newark. Here was a busy place with lots of commuter traffic and through trains. Then we were on our way again. Now the Erie was beside us. I don't remember seeing much traffic on that line, although it was electrified, too. Then we'd cross the Lehigh Valley's yard leads that headed into Oak Island. There were always cuts of boxcars sitting there, and it was fun to try and spot the road names on them from our train. Kearny was next and this was where we would begin to see Pennsy freight traffic.
The number of freight trains was unbelievable and many of them were pulled by electric locomotives such as both kinds of P5s, and GG1s that had been regeared for freight service. I could spot just about any kind of freight car on these trains; everything from chemical tank cars to livestock cars, something we didn't see too many of at home. The railroad served many more industries then than it does now, and most of the factories had rail sidings. Switch engines, EMD, Alco, and Baldwin, would be working different sidings as we passed by. Then on the other side would be a sudden rumble as we met another passenger train. Unless you had a timetable, you=d be hard pressed to tell which train it was because there were so many. We=d also meet and pass freight trains, again going so fast that I couldn't tell what road=s cars were on them. This, truly, was a hard working railroad. The train swept around a big curve at Elizabeth. The Central Railroad of New Jersey passed beneath the Pennsy here. At Trenton was a highway bridge with the slogan "Trenton Makes the World Takes." The bridge was on the right hand side of the train if I was riding to Washington. Philadelphia was next.
We passed by the Philadelphia Zoo (on the train's left side) and then traversed the mammoth "Zoo" interlocking - the busiest of its type in the world, and one of the most complicated. We'd swing to left at Zoo if we were going to Washington and to the right if heading west. Philadelphia was the headquarters city of the P Company. I liked train watching better there than in New York because things were more open. From the north, we would travel beside the high line which handled freight traffic around the city. It seemed that there was generally a coal train or mixed freight on that line, generally behind diesel power.
Pennsylvania diesels were painted Brunswick green (almost black) and had gold lettering and numbers and yellow handrails - a dignified scheme - that was livened up a bit by judicious application of red and white keystone-shaped herald with the letters PRR entwined in the middle of the keystone. Other Pennsy diesels were tuscan red with gold striping, letters, and numbers. Similar colors applied to their electrics. The freight electrics were green and the passenger electrics were red, although I recall that a handful of the G motors were painted silver, and one of them was done up in a light blue and yellow scheme for the Golden Spike Centennial in 1969.
There was an extensive coach yard below the high line and northwest of the 30th Street Station, a mammoth structure that served downtown Philadelphia. Here again was the opportunity to view many different kinds of passenger cars - mostly PRR - that were used in commuter, local, and through passenger service. It was not uncommon to see one or more of the Pennsylvania=s business cars. 30th Street was closed in like Pennsylvania Station in New York. Most trains spent some time there working mail, baggage, and express, and sometimes either setting out or adding cars. There was usually time for a quick turn up and down the platform. We passed through industrial areas after leaving Philadelphia and the tracks eventually swung closely parallel to the Delaware River. Here I could see oceangoing vessels, freighters and tankers, moving to and from Philadelphia. I could also spot tugs with tows of oil and gasoline barges. Sun Oil had a huge refinery at Marcus Hook, Pennsylvania and their shipyard was very close to the tracks. It was impossible to decide what to look at first! The ride, while fascinating in daytime, was even moreso at night, especially if I had sleeper space and could turn the lights off in my room and look out the window.
The Pennsylvania's position light signals gave a graphic representation of the track ahead. For example a row of three vertical lights was "clear," three diagonal lights meant "caution," and a horizontal row of lights meant "stop." This was a lot different than the color light signals on the B&M at home and the colored lights and semaphores on the New Haven. The Boston and Albany, depending on where you were, also had a combination of semaphores and colored light signals. I knew that the PRR's engineer (like those on the New Haven) had a signal display in the cab of his locomotive. The PRR's position lights signals were yellow and quite visible at night, even more so in fog or rain, which made them appear even brighter. Not only did we have signals, we also had electric arcs between the overhead wire and the engine's pantographs - a spectacular display of blue-white light, brighter than daytime sunshine. The New Haven's engines would also arc spectacularly as they raced along between New Haven and New York. I remember seeing an EP5 westbound in a rainstorm with a passenger train below Stamford - the jet put on a spectacular display of fireworks with gigantic flashes of lighting about every 100 feet as it sped along. The sound was also something to remember as there was a loud "bang" every time an arc occurred.
Wilmington was the next station, and Baltimore came after that. Baltimore was a busy place with all kinds of industry. The B&O was a big player here, of course, just like the PRR, and the Western Maryland was here, too. Later, I became quite familiar with the Baltimore waterfront and got to know what a lot of this trackage was and where it led to. But for now, it was interesting to see the blue and gray of the Baltimore and Ohio's engines and the black and gold-lettered power of the WM.
I remember my mother talking about a trip she and my father made to Washington during World War II. There was no Pullman space, of course, so the PRR used parlor cars as sleepers - you got a parlor seat and a blanket. One this was that it was better than riding all night in a P70. I made short trips in P70s over the years and here was a car that was utilitarian to say the least. It was built like a battleship and would get you to your destination, but it was not necessarily a travel experience to recall with pleasure. Anyway, she recalled Baltimore as a city with a lot of row houses that had marble steps.
The row houses and the marble steps were still there when I started traveling to and from Washington. The PRRs tracks north of Baltimore were on a fill and ran through industrial neighborhoods. Again here was a situation of factories, houses, stores and the like all jammed together. Our train rode serenely above all of it. There was a lot of street trackage in Baltimore as the B&O and the Pennsy's engines pushed cars through tightly cramped spaces into and out of industrial buildings. It was very similar to Providence and something that I was very used to because it had "always been there."
Work safe
The Passenger Railroad Fallen Flags of "Our" Place #11
A form of this was initially Posted on Page 120 of the original Thread
Caveat: The information provided is NOT all inclusive and is reflective only of the periods mentioned.
Here's another Passenger RR Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:
Headquarters: Philadelphia, PA
Mileage:
1950: 10,000
1962: 9,756
Locomotives in 1963:
Diesel: 2,402
Electric: 254
Rolling stock in 1963:
Freight cars: 139,356 Passenger cars: 3,546
Principal routes in 1950:
Philadelphia-Harrisburg-Pittsburgh, PA
New York-Washington, DC
Pittsburgh-Fort Wayne, IN-Chicago, IL
Pittsburgh-Indianapolis, IN-St. Louis, MO
Pittsburgh-Cleveland, OH
Baltimore, MD-Buffalo, NY
Wilmington, DE-Norfolk, VA
Chicago-Columbus, OH
Logansport, IN-Louisville, KY
Logansport-Cincinnati
Fort Wayne, IN-Mackinaw City, MI
Columbus-Toledo, OH-Detroit, MI
Passenger trains of note:
Broadway Limited (New York-Chicago)
Clevelander (New York-Cleveland)
Cincinnati Limited (New York-Cincinnati)
Colonial (Boston-Washington, joint with New Haven)
Congressional (New York-Washington)
Duquesne (New York-Pittsburgh)
Edison (New York-Washington)
The General (New York-Chicago)
Golden Triangle (Chicago-Pittsburgh)
Jeffersonian (New York-St. Louis)
Kentuckian (Chicago-Louisville)
Liberty Limited (Washington-Chicago)
Manhattan Limited (New York & Washington-Chicago)
Pennsylvania Limited (New York & Washington-Chicago)
Penn Texas (New York-Washington-St. Louis)
Pittsburgher (New York-Pittsburgh)
Red Arrow (New York-Detroit)
St. Louis (New York-Washington-St. Louis)
Senator (Boston-Washington, joint with New Haven)
"Spirit of St. Louis" (New York-St. Louis)
South Wind (Chicago-Miami, joint with L&N, ACL and Florida East Coast)
Trail Blazer (New York-Chicago)
Union (Chicago-Columbus, OH)
Of note: In the New York-Florida market, the PRR was a forwarder for many connecting passenger trains from other roads.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Tuesday once again and we're about to receive a "blast" of arctic air that will return us to the temps of late winter rather than early spring. Was 83 (F) yesterday - supposed to drop like a rock within 24 hours or so. Batten down the hatches, Boris! <uh oh>
Time for a mug of freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from our Menu Board!
Heard from Rob by Email (again) and he's in hopes that this latest situation with his "free time" will pass and allow for a return to the bar. Also passes his "congrats" to Wolfman for the "promotion" to Bar Chandler.
Help Wanted (again): Monday's are pretty much a "crap shoot" in that we never seem to know who is going to Post ‘n when. So, perhaps a bit of "help" can be mustered up, after all - Sunday is a day "off" from the rigors of Posting at the bar. So trying to maintain a "regularity" of a time "slot" really, really helps. These droughts are hard to reconcile. Thanx!
CONCERN: A reminder to all who post Pix and other "stuff" from COPYRIGHT sources. Be SURE that you have the "okay" to do so. Otherwise YOU may be liable for damages and so forth AND also get this Thread into difficulty with Kalmbach (our hosts). If there is a COPYRIGHT marking, then you MUST get permission. Make note of any Pix and other materials that are in the public domain and so forth. There's no way around it. A word to the wise . . . .
Lars at 10:26 AM yesterday: Golly gee whiz, so the Mets won ONE game. Next the World Series?? <geesh> You are correct, Sir - pitchers hardly make it into the 7th or 8th innings, much less complete a game. We both remember "the days" when they did.
Some nice books to compliment the Brit "theme" of Saturday!
CM3 at 3:04 PM yesterday: Three fine tunes for Herr Wurlitzer's "mostly forgotten, but loved nonetheless" selections. <grin>
It's gonna be a loooooooong baseball season, but one that will at least return us to the pastime many yearn for; me included!
Thanx for the round, quarters ‘n visit and we look forward to your Pennsy contribution.
Oh by the by - I received my issue of Railroad History featuring the CPs "The Canadian" on the cover. Only thing "wrong" with the very well done foto is that the train is powered by an RS10 ‘n F7B <ugh> hardly the power plants that "made" the train such a "hit." Anyway, it's a fine issue and I thank you very much for steering me in its direction.
James at 8:20 PM yesterday: Winter doesn't want to leave Duluth, eh Sounds fine to me - but I can understand how it gets "old" after awhile. With things all green and growing down here, the last thing we need is a blanket of white . . .
Thanx for the inclusive Post, Pix ‘n URLs . . .
Pete at 10:22 PM yesterday: What kind of a time zone are YOU on out there in mid-MO???? Mid to late afternoon turns out to be late night! And on a Monday at that . . . <geesh>
Appreciate the KCity Star URL - very thorough and I'm NOT surprised it wasn't run in our paper. Seems that Amtrak ‘round these parts is non-existent as far as the media is concerned. Probably due to Amtrak's dwindling PR budget.
No, no, no - I'm not the ombudsman between husbands ‘n wives! YOU will have to ‘splain why we NEED a month in Chicago to "do" everything Doug wants to show us.
Always a pleasure reading your thoughts and WONDERING just what it "is" with that ‘puter of yours!
Eric at 1:47 AM today: Crossing Canada by train is really a misnomer in that it takes more than one train to actually make the trip. The Canadian leaves from Toronto for the westbound journey. So if one were to begin in Nova Scotia, you'd take the Ocean from Halifax to Montreal. Change trains for the "corridor train" to Toronto. Spend the night in a hotel, then board the Canadian (3 times per week) for the "cross Canada." It's really an experience and it's a MUST with the Budd equipment. One of these years, that equipment will be gone, gone, gone - then who knows . . .
If you only had ONE Pix of the PRR to show, you surely had the BEST one! Love the GG1 - thanx!
Appreciate the inclusive Post and visit!
Doug at 4:45 AM today: A fine beginning to the Pennsy "theme" and of course, much appreciation for your attentiveness to the needs of the bar!
Fine looking "steamers" and the narratives really round out the Post . . . . thanx!
Reminder: Ruth has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til closing.
Boris, serve ‘em all of the "spiked" OJ they can handle!
Good morning Tom and friends. I'll have the light breakfast please. We sure have a stormy day in Chicagoland this morning, complete with lightning. Colder weather is once again on the way, just when I thought I had taken too long to get my Martin house up. Great seeing our friend DL from the UK yesterday, and then manager Lars with some more British bookcovers. Our Captain brought us back to the North American continent with his CP add, and CM3 plans to be here today with some Pennsy stuff. Glad you liked my stuff James, and those were some nifty URLs you left at the end of your post. Don't know if any of the South Line steeple cabs were saved Peter, but it's possible that one ended up at the IRM. I'll have to put them on my list of cars to hunt down at the IRM. I ran a quick search of the roster on the website, and it says no. But it's really a poor search engine and is frequently wrong. Don't know the normal operating speed for interurban running in the streets Eric, but I do know that when the city if Chicago got real serious about eliminating them from the streets, that they were ticketed for going over 10 mph! That was the final straw that did them in. Here's some Pennsy stuff from a book I luckily had in my collection:
The following information is from Pennsy Steam and Semaphores by Fred Westing
Engine No. 1413, class E2a built in 1902, at Juniata, wheels the southbound Congressional Limited through South Bristol, Pa., in September 1910. Trains then ran at street level in Bristol, but Pennsy was already working on track elevation through the city. This was completed and opened for service Sunday, September 26, 1911. It shaved off about ¼ mile in length between New York and Philadelphia, and eliminated 12 grade crossings in Bristol. Cost of the project was $1,012,000. Signal bridge No. 682 was typical standard Pennsy design truss introduced in 1902 for main line use on New York Division, and later elsewhere east of Pittsburgh. The number 682 indicated that the bridge was 68.2 miles west of a fixed point in the Cortlandt Street Ferry Station. New York City, one. mile east of the Jersey City Terminal across the Hudson River. Note pipe on right-side bridge support which was used to carry compressed air to signal mechanisms. This numbering of signal bridges made for quick location identification in the event of an emergency. Telephones were installed on all these bridges to permit quick communication to the nearest interlocking tower. All signals were still of lower quadrant automatic type and gave three indications per signal mast with two blades.
Here we have a most interesting picture. It shows an E6a hauling the Pennsy's top-name train, No. 29, the Broadway Limited on August 11, 1917, after it had passed North Elizabeth station, N.J. Note how the safety valve is showing a white plume of steam, for those four Pullmans and one dining car were easy for that stubby barrel-chested Atlantic. Engine No. 460 is of exceptional interest and was the last E6s built at Juniata August 1914, construction number 2860. In this scene No. 460 was still equipped as in 1914 when new from the Juniata shops, oil headlight and all. No. 460 made the fastest time ever made by steam power between Washington D.C> and Manhatten Transfer, N.J., on Sunday, June 11, 1927, when it hauled the Lindbergh Special. The Marcus Hook and Chester, Pa., No 460 hit a speed of 115 mph, and was still not running on a wide-open throttle. I once had the great pleasure of driving a splendidly built live-steam model of engine No. 460, built to a 1-inch scale. We had a load of as I recall 7 adults and 8 children and the ease with which we started was remarkable. When we hit a grade a slight widening of the throttle caused the engine to speed up in a way that simulated jet propulsion - just like the prototype. Last but not least is the fact that this locomotive is still in existence at Strasburg, Pa., and will soon be enclosed in the State railroad museum at that location available for all who care to view it.
sd.
Engine No. 318 on the Altoona test plant that was designed by Axel Vogt. This locomotive was built in May, 1908, as class E3d, but as shown here after it had become class E3d, but as shown here after it had become class E3sd. It still retained the spoked forward truck wheels, and three piece cylinder and saddle construction. The object of this latter arrangement was to enable more rapid replacement of a cylinder and valve chest. This locomotive produced more power per pound of weight than any passenger locomotive tested including the first K4s Pacific built years later. Engine 318 developed one cylinder horse-power for every 94.6 pounds of weight. But it was the superheater that gave this locomotive its outstanding mark of distinction, for it permitted an increase of 14 per cent in drawbar pull at 20 mph, and 39 per cent at 50 mph. Superheater damper counterweight is in "down" position as it should be when the throttle is shut. The driving wheels rested upon blind tires of 72 inch diameter supporting wheels to which were fastened Alden absorption brakes. These offered hydraulic resistance to the driving wheels, thereby absorbing the power developed by the locomotive and causing the engine to overcome resistance it was possible to obtain the actual tractive force and drawbar pull characteristics which were measured by a dynamometer in a small building in back of the locomotive. Engineer Martin Lee often drove this locomotive and commented "Superheater works fine." He had driven 318 when it used saturated steam and could readily spot the improvement. No. 318 was later renumbered 4098, and taken out of service in 1937.
Another rare Pennsy scene showing the big Alco Pacific class K29s locomotive in action. It was assisting a K4s class engine in getting a heavy westbound express train moving uphill to Gallitzin at the crest of the grade. Train is a few miles west of Altoona, Pa., and passengers may soon by able to see the doubleheader as the train rolls around the scenic Horseshoe Curve. Note the offset location of the bell on No. 3395, the K29s class engine, and the forward position of the two single-stage air compressors. The 3395 had one main air reservoir placed between the main frames out of sight. This aided its cleancut appearance but did not make things easier for the locomotive inspectors at the engine house.
Interior view of a K4s showing how they looked in the 1920's and early 1930's. Firedoor was still hand opened as can be seen by the door-opening chain. This backhead first came into use on the 3700 series of fifty K4s engines built in 1920. Reversing screw hand wheel was used, and there were four gauges, one marked "Locomotive" which recorded the boiler pressure, one marked "Steam" to denote pressure of steam heat going to train, and two air brake gauges. Outside injectors of the non-lifting type have their check valves right and left in the cab to which are connected the curved delivery pipes. The left-side check valve has the squirt hose valve connected to it, and above it is the sight-feed lubricator with pipes feeding to various parts of the locomotive. Man on right side of cab has right hand on throttle lever and left hand on automatic brake valve. Curves in delivery pipes served two purposes; they provided expansion bends and cleared the grab iron above the oil can and night torch tray above the firedoor.
[I:]A Panda walks into a bar and asks the bartender for a meal. When the meal finally arrives, he eats it quickly, then shoots a drunk, and leaves the bar. A patron walks over to the bartender and asks, "What was that all about?" The bartender replies, "Look up 'panda' in the dictionary, pal." And so, the patron retrieves his Webster's dictionary from his coat pocket and looks up the word 'panda.' "What's it say?" asks the bartender. The patron replies with a grin, "Eats shoots and leaves". [I:]
Leon, Monday, no Tuesday morning, just a cup of coffee, please! You keep the change!
This Monday was kind of a lost day at work, so it is no=ice to spend some time here tonight... I mean this morning! There was more to read than I expected!
Doug – Interesting article about South Shore! I guess I feel a little extra for electrics. It seems kind of risky in my eyes that those steeplecabs had only one pantograph! For switching, fine, but for line duty?
Does anyone know what was the "normal" speed for interurbans running in the streets?DL – Thanks for the answer! 268.5 miles! The shipping services to Sweden is most likely to Gothenburg. The P-51s in Mike’s pictures was an early design. Tom – I am looking forward to that Route 66 thing! And Forest Gump! I agree, I think we should be careful not to mention antything about Lars’ Birthday party! That was something else! I noticed that he didn’t have much to say about it today. A Canadian Pacific ad! I actually got an email from the Smithsonian today about rail adventures in Cananda! Looks very interesting and so does this ad. But I doubt I will have time to cross Canada in a train for another two years. Nice posters!Lars – I guess you are not going to let us know what you got for your Birthday from Ruth, are you? I didn’t think so and I will not tell. I was stunned!Nice book covers, as usual! British freight cars and steam locomotives! CM3 – Thanks for the round! James – Duluth seems to be the wrong place to bee right now! Stay inside!UP #2520 is a SD60M and so is #2515. No, I have never been on an Acela (yet), it is the X2000 entering Philadelphia in 1993 in my picture. A lot of smoke coming from those diesels in those pictures!Pete – What happened to Bathams today? Out of it? The photo from the cab is taken between New York City and New Haven, don’t remember exactly where. Good guess, but it was not old PRR, it was NH!I am looking forward to more info on the Grampian Corridor whenever you have time to find it! No rush!Thanks for the info on the British diesels! I have always prefered diesel electrics but the Swedish State Railways had a lot of hydraulics.Talking about soccer, I used to have a favorite British team, Queen Park Rangers (blue and white)! That was many years ago though.
I know, I have showed this one before but this is the only PRR-loco I can find at this moment!
Well a pint of Holden's mild please LEON and a round
Good finish to the photo day, with some great links from Mike with the scenes from around Staten Island with the railroad, ferry and the old subway cars. The Alco DL9s do not seemed to be as photographed as often as many or the other classes of diesels of the same era.
I wonder why there is not the big Expositions held any more, I guess it has to do with the cost nowadays.
Thanks for the links to Coventry Cathedral and to the ‘Vulcan Magazine'. It does indeed speak volumes for the quality of the magazine that the workers of the English Electric Co would pay to have a magazine the company produced. I have had a look through a few volumes on the link as well as the story of the engineers visiting the Alco works, of course at the time the UK was still on food rationing.
ERIC Great photos from the cab in Sweden and the U.S. Liked the photo of the Swiss electric locomotive as well.
I am not having a lot of luck finding out about the Grampian Corridor Cars of the Caledonian railway. I will have a look through my old Railway Magazines. On the through London to Scotland services ran by the London & North Western Railway and the Caledonian, the main expresses were composed of very good cars for the time. These were built at the L&NWR Wolverton Works and were labeled as W.C.J.S., which stood for West Coast Joint Stock.
I will guess today's photo, from the cab, is on what was part of the Pennsy Railroad, in the North East of the U.S.
DAVE Great to see you in the bar and thanks for the round. I shall look forward to the story of the palace poultry car.
Hearing about the Post office over there certainly brings things into perspective
So keep safe and it is always good to see you in the bar.
DOUG. Many thanks for the kind words on the pics, I will pass them on to Alan.
So the ‘groan-o-meter' is finally out of replacement springs after Nick's encore joke, we will have to find a new supplier who can make stronger springs.
Enjoyed the post on the South Shore Line class 900 steeple-cab electrics, Great photo of the Fan trip with the locos when they were new to the line. I wonder when the 900s did their last fan trip I see they did one in 1960, when one broke down, but they lasted until 1965 so perhaps they could have done another.
Do you know if any of the 900s are saved.
DL The class 14,s was another example of things going wrong with the modernization plan. The locos were built with the idea of catering for the Pick up goods traffic of the day, but soon after they were introduced the railways after the closure of the many branch lines lost this type of traffic. One of the class 14s had a life of only 2 ½ years in BR service I think the locos were not a bad design as a lot of them went to work for industrial users like the National Coal Board. The steel plant at Corby, Northamptonshire, had a large fleet of them where they worked in the nearby iron ore quarries transporting the ore to the plant. Out of as class of 56, 48 of the class 14s were bought for industrial use.
The North British built two types of Warship diesel- hydraulics. The first was a class of 5 locos introduced in 1958 of the A1A-A1A wheel arrangement Nos D600 to D604.They also built a batch of the later B-B wheel arrangement D833 to D865 Warships. The other members of the class, D800 to D832 and D866 to D870 were built by BR at their Swindon works. The North British locos had NBL/M.A.N. engines whereas the Swindon built locos had Bristol Sidderley-Maybach engines. The weight of the D600s was 117 tons for 2,000HP whereas in the D800s the weight was 78 tons for 2,200HP.
The D600s had gone by 1969 and the NB D800s were withdrawn by 1971. The Swindon built examples lasted a short while longer.
There are no main line North British diesel locomotives saved for preservation although D601 and a NB class 29 D6122 diesel-electric made it to Barry scrapyard in South Wales where the steam locos were saved from, the diesels were cut up.
I believe the site for the ‘Workington Shed' project at Loughbourgh will be on some ground across from the canal bridge at the west of the present loco shed on some land to the south.
That was quite an historic coach featured in the Titfield Thunderbolt.
Thanks for links to the Devon Belle Pullman car arriving at Southampton. They are a great set of photos.
I dare say those clock cases your Grandfather made were great to look at, have you a photo of some of them.
LARS YEP the Mets and the Royals undefeated so far, (the bride is a Royals fan.). I just keep hoping Shrewsbury Town Football Club (Soccer) can make the division 2 play-offs for promotion.
Many thanks for the British book covers. On the second cover I have been studying it to try to see if I can see where it was taken. It looks like dockyard cranes in the background, I have a feeling it could be Liverpool or Glasgow. There is a three wheel Scammell articulated tractor in the center of the pic on the far left. They were a common sight hauling BR goods from the freight depot when I was young.
CM3 Thanks for the song titles. I will look forward to your Pennsy piece tomorrow.
Leon- Ah, I'm glad to see you here. I was in the middle of working on an SW1 out in the shop and decided to take a break and have a nice cup of coffee and a roast "beast" sandwich. Thanks!
Well, we've come out of one tunnel and into another. The Ice storm is gone and now we have a blizzard warning. Tomorrow, we are expected 6 to 8 inches of snow. Yike.
Doug- thanks for all the interesting photos on the electric street cars. Also enjoyed the articles on each of the cars. Glad a group decided to take care of that old beat up car. It was looking very shabby. Thanks for the article on the South Shore's 900 and 1000 class steeple cab locomotives. Those little things sure did a lot to improve the South Shore and I'm surprised that they lasted up until 1965. Cool pics along with the story.
Pete- Well, It seemed weird that you found only the GP38-2 so I went back through and looked it up. I can tell you there isn't a UP C30-7 with the # 2515 but there is a picture of the sister unit, the 2520. So from that I concluded that there must have been a 2515 out there somewhere. Just there weren't any pictures taken of it.
Also thanks for the website on the Clapham Junction. 2000 trains a-day!!!! That would be really fun to watch, electric or not. Some really cool pictures of the station looking east. That is quite a bit of rail laying there. You sometimes wonder how the trains can navigate through it. Thanks!
Thanks for the interesting photos of the German 0-4-4-0 Steam locomotives. I don't know why but those little steam engines seem to be more appealing than the big articulated locomotives. Even though I like big steam, I just like those little steam engines a little more. Thanks for sharing. OH and BTW, I am still looking for some info on the DL109. I will have it on my next post. I have quite a bit about it.
Tom- Of course I give a rat's patoot about the bar. Just don't like cleaning the rat's patoot. It's one of the best online areas to talk about trains plus, it's fun. I just like to talk about the things I enjoy and really like learning about new things, just to expand the mind a little.
Thanks for the info on the Great Britain passenger nostalgia. Some great trains run over there as I have learned some info on it from Pete and the Clapham junction. Some pretty neat stuff! Good little nostalgia on the Canadian Pacific. Quite a passenger train they had there. Also enjoyed the book covers. Thanks.
Mike- Great pictures of the RDCs. That N&H RDC on the super elevated curve was an especially good shot. I think they have it max out in speed just by the way the smoke looks coming off the top of that thing. Also enjoyed the Milwaukee Road DL109. Good shot. Also liked the Vulgan foundry magazine cover and readings. Some cool stuff there fer sure, fer sure. Thanks for sharing.
West coast Dave- Another visit from you sir and I'm glad you're still able to visit us when you can. Always enjoy reading the conversations that go around with you and everybody. Hope things are okay for you.
Eric- Some nice looking picture from you. I believe that is Acela entering Philadelphia but I can't say for sure. But I do recognize the cab signals. They can definitely reach the 100+ mph then!! Also some really nice pictures from Sweden and Switzerland too. Thanks for sharing.
Ya the Auto Max carriers are quite a large auto rack. Plus there much bigger than the original auto rack. These big things are bigger than the locomotives that haul them around. It's crazy. I haven't seen any of these yet, well, in Duluth I wouldn't expect to see any. Just a lot of coal trains and manafreight. Cool picture.
Glad you liked y Metra pics. Now that you mention the two trains being the same it does seem that way. It's a little weird. That Deval tower is about 30 miles from the downtown area. So I wonder if the train was caught on two different days. Could be. BTW: 30 trains in 30 minutes. Ya a triple track mainline, you would have trains all three tracks. One is for the express trains the other two are for regular commuters. One each way. So ya it's feasible to see 100 trains in an hour and a half. Pretty cool!
Dl- Glad you liked the Metra train pics. I thought they would go a long perfectly with photo posting day.
Neat stuff on the Pullman cars from San Francisco. They traveled a long way back to there rightful home. Pretty cool looking at the pictures of how they moved the car from the ship to it's trucks. Quite an operation that went on there. Thanks for sharing
Lars- Sounds like the B-day was a good one. Great to have you back though.
Thanks for the book covers. Those British railways are pretty cool. It would be interesting to have a book on that stuff just to learn a little about what goes on. Neat stuff.
Now I know I said I would be back later on Saturday and drop off more pictures.. but guess what I didn't. So I will leave behind some URLs to some pictures.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=37041
Good Afternoon Barkeep and all Present; coffee, pelase; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.
Here are some old favorites - just for Boris. "Thank God and Greyhound She's Gone," "I've Got Hair Oil on My Ears And My Glasses Are Slipping Down, But Baby I Can See Through You," and "You're the Reason Our Kids Are So Ugly."
Finally reemerged from a variety of obligations at home and at work.
Just a quick stop for now - will have time to catch up and post tomorrow. First, belated Happy Birthday to Lars; I watched the Cards and Mets play last night - Carpenter pitched well every other inning and, in no time at all, gave up a "gentlemanly" six runs. I believe both teams are going to have long seasons, especially if they have to keep going to the bullpen as they did last night. Boston starts up their season in a little while; there are a lot of unanswered questions with them as well.
PRR tomorrow - I'll be there.
work safe
PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #30
Initially Posted on Page 172 of the original Thread
Here's something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with Classic Trains. Check out this advertisement regarding the Canadian Pacific from 1950:
Let yourself go!See big beautiful CANADA in armchair ease
Salty vacation? It's at The Algonquin, St. Andrews-by-the-Sea, New Brunswick . . . . 2 seaside golf courses, swimming, sailing. Or across Bay of Fundy waits The Digby Pines, at Digby, Nova Scotia - heaps of family fun! Either place, you're in the good carte of Canadian Pacific. Like "another world" city? See friendly Old Québec. Ride in a Calèche. Shop winding streets. Visit Ste. Anne de Beaupré or isle d'Orléans! Relax gaily in luxury at Canadian Pacific's great Château Frontenac! All the talk's about Canada - land of vacations unlimited! See it from the Atlantic to the Pacific - by Canadian Pacific train with picture-window views. Enjoy real hospitality at fine Canadian Pacific hotels. See the skyscraper Canadian Rockies - by Canadian Pacific, Diesel train. Stop over at Banff and Lake Louise, the area for breeze-swept Victoria, British Columbia - stay at the famous Empress Hotel. Revel in the roses. Go sightseeing, shopping. Sporty golf courses . . . swim in Crystal Garden, world's largest enclosed sea pool. Enjoy climate like springtime all year ‘round. Ask your own agent about fast Empress airliners to the Far East, New Zealand and Australia . . . cruise by "Princess" to Alaska . . . sail to Europe in White Empress style.
Canadian Pacific Canada is news! See it by Canadian Pacific
Enjoy! Tom
Ruth my deAH you are a marvelous sight this fine day and I know you are rejoicing in the knowledge that the New York Mets are undefeated in the 2007 baseball campaign!
"That" B'day present will have to remain with you, as I've no where to put it where it will be "safe." <grin>
Now, how about a number 3 from the menu, a hot mugga Joe with a "jolt" and that should hold me for awhile.
My thanks to all who sent their well wishes my way, most appreciated!
Took some time yesterday scanning through the pages of the bar and found some extremely interesting and enlightening material. Most of which has already been commented on. Those Urls by Mike were "right on," and the continuing efforts from the guys is really showing how quality will "rule" over quantity every time!
I poured through those Urls and found all kinds of "stuff" to bring back some memories of what used to be. My family also felt that the Verazanno Bridge was a huge blow to the serenity of "our" island. I can recall my father being absolutely livid at the time. As with Tom, I've yet to meet a bona fide "islander" who wanted that link. The 69th street ferry was fine with us, huh? <grin>
So, Tom, the Cards took one on the chin last night, huh? Doesn't seem like starting pitchers remain for much longer than 5 or 6 innings these days. I thought Glavin was really sharp, but the Red Birds got quite a few hits off of him toward the end of his stint, just couldn't bring ‘em ‘round. My guys are awesome at the bat and once again, the "experts" are picking them to lead the pack. Wouldn't surprise me at all, just hope the pitching doesn't do a fade out as happened in 2006. So, we're 1-0 and Tuesday is the next game against you guys. I heard that they leave the "day after" open in case of a rainout for the 1st game. Hmmmmmm, so what? Then the 2nd scheduled game becomes the opener. Someone needs to ‘splain this to me, for I'm not getting it. Ohhhhhhh, the Lords of Baseball.
Pennsy for tomorrow! Now that's a mighty fine road and one that got quite a bit of airing over on the "old" thread. Looking forward to it and I hope to contribute a "little something" to the stack!
So here we are in April - no April Fools this year, though. <grin> Anyway, NEXT MONTH is the Rendezvous! Also, gonna be a busy, busy month for a few of us. I'm encouraging those of you who will be on line to keep this bar up ‘n running. Just takes a post a day, or even every other day, to keep us on that first page. With all of the "topics" being posted on our forum, doesn't take long at all to get pushed down, down, down.
Great to see the West Coast Sleuth on Saturday and simply sez a lot, huh??? If you want to be one of us, you'll find a way . . . Can't argue with that. Although, there ARE exceptions to ANY "rule," and life threatening or situations simply out of our control are but a couple.
Appears that we have DL back in the fold and the quality posts are wonderful. Always something to captivate the eyes and mind. Appreciate the return!
Ruth, the Penthouse Suite and lil' ol' me????? Now why in the world would anyone . . . .
Here's a some Brit flavored book covers seen B4 to help make up for my absence on Saturday!
One more, Ruth - a round for the bar and then I'm off to begin the week!
A smile to begin the week!
When you come to a fork in the road, take it.
(A Yogi-ism!)
New month, new work week and Monday, all rolled into one. Let's start ‘em off with a hot mugga coffee, a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from the Menu Board and of course a cuppla pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery!
Now that we're into April - those of us planning to be in St. Louis for the Rendezvous can say: NEXT MONTH!
Doing it's level best to screw up the works, Union Pacific has scheduled some extensive track work along the route between St. Louis ‘n Kansas City, MO. Translated: the Amtrak schedule has gone to blazes! Between now and the end of May, it's going to be an adventure, to say the least, for those normally making that trip. Ramifications of course will "spill over" to the Rendezvous. But NOT to worry, our itinerary should not be altered too much (Hermann trip). Thanx, Pete, for the fone call updates!
Everything for the Cardinals opening day festivities last evening was excellent, except the game. Mets won, Mets won, Mets won! <groan> There goes our "perfect" season!
TUESDAY THEME for the DAY is the Pennsylvania RR!
Mike at 5:11 PM ‘n 7:35 PM Saturday: The URLMeisterMonster provided some fine nostalgia for those of us familiar with the "scene" on Staten Island "back then. Loved the S.I.R.T. cars - although they were layed up at that point. Rode ‘em many, many times.
Seeing "my man," Gil #14, running out an inside the park "homer" as a "grey beard" really brought a chuckle. He was more known for blasting ‘em out than running ‘em out. Surely a guy DESERVING of Hall of Fame honors. Just a puzzlement, indeed . . .
That ferry Pix looks like the Pvt. Joseph Merrill (sp) and I recall traveling aboard numerous times.
Most of the Staten Islanders I knew at the time were NOT in favor of THAT bridge across the Narrows to Brooklyn. Changed the anonymity of "our island" forever - and I dare say, not for the better (or bettAH, as Lars would have it!).
A bit of "narrative" directed at a customer! How "different," but from the heart - fer sure, fer sure.
Thanx for the visit ‘n round!
Dave at 6:00 PM Saturday: A "report"from Iraq as our Left Coast Connection continues on with his exploits as Ace Sleuth, MidEastSec! <grin>
Always a pleasure to have you aboard and hope the "countdown" to returning stateside will soon get into the single digits!
Can't get the Pix or URLs, eh Now that's a bit odd, but then again, I suppose there's a measure of economy there - bandwidth kinds of things do you suppose???
Appreciate the round, visit and your willingness to remain engaged with us!
Keep your head down . . .
Eric at 12:02 AM ‘n 11:39 PM Sunday: Great spate of Pix and much appreciated. Hey, no sweat - where YOU are located, it was still Saturday! <grin>
"We" were in the Penthouse, and I surely didn't see Lars ‘n Ruth! <grin>
Really like that "shot" at Point of Rocks, MD!
Back with some fine Pix, descriptions and "talk." Closed or not, slipping your message through the mail slots on either set of front doors "works"!
Bride says "thanx" for the B'day greeting! Sorry, but the B'day Watch List was created for "Our" Place REGULAR Customers - that's the origin and what I've held to since. "Regular" is pretty evident and spouse or not, UNQUALIFIED is the woId! <grin> Nice thought, though . . .
Having had nary a word regarding "that" Route 66 "thing" - it will go to YOU at the Rendezvous! Case closed . . .
Glad you appreciate the movie selections - I've got ‘em in the "mill" for the next 3 weeks. However, your request will be honored after that - watch for it!
No comments regarding Lars, Ruth ‘n the Penthouse Suite . . .
Doug at 5:35 AM today: Great start to the month - week ‘n day! Appreciate the early AM visit along with another fine South Shore Line story . . .
"Tennis shoed engineer'???? Hmmmmm, do I sense something going on
In reading between the lines, appears as if you've got some pretty extensive plans for us in 2008 for the Rendezvous in Chicago. Are you planning on us being up there for a month??? <grin>
Dittos for the Penthouse Suite comments! <grin>
DL at 7:07 AM today: Great to have you aboard and a fine way to kick start the day!
Those warships you mentioned were in Bayonne, NJ - once a huge port for the U.S. Navy - always saw at least one carrier, a battleship and perhaps a cruiser or two over there as the Staten Island ferry made its way back 'n forth from "the city."
Those Brit posters were created to show the guys that the subject of Classic Trains shouldn't be restricted to the U.S. 'n Canada. Glad you enjoyed 'em!
And yes, I did not
Morning Tom
Just caught up on the weekend stuff before dropping in. I'll have a pancake breakfast again, I enjoyed that one ‘on the house' so I'll buy another one myself this time!
Pete - Just returning to your comments on BR diesel design reliability I wondered about your take on 2 hydraulic designs - the Class 14 and the North British ‘Warships'. Was it the case that the Cl 14 was not unreliable, just that the type of train they were designed for went over to road haulage so quickly that the design was redundant? I don't know much about the NB Warships but I thought they were not so reliable - did they share any other design characteristics with the more ‘popular' warship class, or was it just that they had similar names?
Interesting info on the Std Class 5 - and as you say I should not have referred to it as a Black 5 - just my ignorance on UK steam from before my date of birth. Good to read your comments.
I should take in a Vintage Trains day at Butterly - looks good to see those restored cars. I was at Kent & East Sussex for a vintage Carriage day some years ago and that was good, and 2 years back happened to be at the KWVR on Vintage Carriage day too.
My grandfather made clock cases out of the mahogany salvaged from that old railway carriage home - his hobby was restoring old clocks and sometimes he had to construct a case for a mech he would have found in a broken state in some junk shop and fixed up.
Just remembered the engine driver in the Film Titfield Thunderbolt lives in an old disused railway carriage!
Thanks for the link on the GCR - that is an ambitious project - I wonder when it will happen. I can't exactly picture the site. Nice to know that the Workington Shed survives somewhere. I also read they had plans for a carriage shed on a quarry spur near Swithland - I hope they can get the money for these things - they are very ambitious. Did you read to the end of that update? The Caprotti Std 5 you mentioned is going to Swanage for a while.
Tom - I agree with you re standing at the rear of the train watch the right of way - you can hardly ever do that in the UK. I recall taking The International from Chicago to Toronto a few years back and someone had not really locked the last door properly - so I pulled it open for a while and stood with the fresh air coming in watching the road behind - a ‘bar' was across the back so safety wise it was not an issue to my mind. I noticed later in the tip that someone had closed and locked it though!
As for your nostalgia posts the London Scotland west coast route still handles the night sleepers to the highlands and lowlands to this day.
As for Eric's question the distance from Newcastle to London is, according to the National rail Timetable 268.5 miles. The 5.30pm from Kings Cross today reaches Newcastle in 2 hours 58 mins (with 3 intermediate stops) - so one hour less than in 1935. Newcastle has shipping services across to Sweden (Gothenburg I think).
Eric - I'm not too sure about the Grampian Corridor? Any ideas Pete?
James - superb Metra pictures with the city skyline behind - enjoyed that.
Mike - that was link fest and a half. Some serious freight handling facilities at Staten Island - and some interesting warships in the distance behind the NYC cars. Nice CP RDC too.
Coventry Cathedral - not too old by our standards - where I grew up the Village Church was built about 1180 !!
Is that an early design of the P51 in those pictures?
Those Vulcan magazine links are superb - that index is one to savour so I've book marked that - many thanks. Enjoyed the article you posted too - it really shows the contrast between an Austerity Post war UK and the USA at that time - also the comments about the nature of industry are very telling - I think that what the author is implying (but was too diplomatic to say) was that in the UK a visitor would have been shown round by managers who would probably have gained their position by ‘who they knew' not ‘what they knew' and thus would not have been able to answer the detailed technical discussion. Such managers would also have expected staff to ‘know their place' and not interject in conversations with visitors for fear of embarrassing the bosses. Interesting too that clearly ALCO were eyeing up former British Imperial markets at that time, which is of course not surprising.
Did you notice the Doug style wit at the end!
My parents went to live in the US in the early 60s for 5 years and the contrast in terms of consumer goods etc was, according to them, still very stark with the UK at that time.
Tom, did you spot that the author of the article ended his trip with a Montreal Halifax train journey before taking the Aquitania back to the UK.
All interesting stuff.
Dave - hello sir - as you may have guessed, I visit the bar on trips for the UK - where Tom is kind enough to feature UK based stuff to make me feel welcome (and to remind Pete of home I expect). Good to meet you.
Regards to all
DL
By the way - couple of links here update on story I mentioned a while back the return of British Pullman cars from San Francisco - here they are being unloaded from the ship:
http://www.swanagerailway.co.uk/news352.htm
http://www.swanagerailway.co.uk/news356.htm
Good morning Tom and gang. I'll have a light breakfast please. Quite the Saturday here at Our Place. The Building has somehow survived Lars' birthday, though I believe the "temporary" (last party) jacks we used under the flooring shouldn't have been removed to elevate Boris' shed for its annual hosing, but I'm not a tennis-shoed engineer like some folks here, so what do I know? So what if the piano rolls across the floor on its own?
Pretty interesting stuff last Friday, especially the rumor of manager Lars sneaking into an upstairs room with "R...". Remember. What happens at Our Place, stays on the internet for everyone to see forever!
Tom started us off with some movies for the Emporium, the usual Stooge film and more British passenger stuff. Peter was actually in earlier, and started us off with a groaner that broke a few springs, and popped the crystal off the face of the groan-o-meter. We're all out of replacement springs now, so I used a hemp shoestring from one of Boris' boots to tie the broken springs together and saran wrap over areas needing protection from flying beer suds. Peter also posted more terrific pix from Alan, which were followed by URLs from Mike. We got our visit from Dave, just as I hoped. Sorry I didn't get back with more Orange Museum pix, but we really got tied up at the Sanfilippo Estate that day. I took almost 200 pictures, and you guys aren't going to believe that place when you see it. We're talking about a collection in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Wealth I can't begin to comprehend. But that's for later, and you can only see it at Our Place!
We also had to really excellent batches of pix from Eric, which I for one really enjoyed.
Here's a little something from me that I got from a publication called "The First and Fastest"
The South Shore 900 Class, by Peter J. Miksich
It was 1941. The depression-spawned bankruptcy that sent the South Shore into financial decline and insolvency was behind them. Active solicitation of freight business and a growing passenger volume put the railroad back on its feet again. In fact, freight business was so good that it was becoming increasingly difficult for the six pairs of 1000 class steeplecabs to get traffic over them.
In 1929, the Illinois Central RR acquired 4 Baldwin-Westinghouse 97 ton locomotives. These electrics performed switching duties for 12 years before their sale to the South Shore. No. 10003 (soon to become No. 901) is shown on the IC in 1939
Here is CSS&SB No. 903 in 1941, freshly repainted from its previous role as IC No. 10001
A formal portrait of the entire roster. No. 900-903, in Michigan City. Examining this photo reveals the South Shore's practice of pointing the No. 1 ends of odd-and even-numbered units in opposite directions
The South Shore began to hunt for freight motive power to supplant their overworked fleet. They did not have to look very far, as the Illinois Central recently converted their Chicago terminal switching operation from electric to diesel. During 1941, the South Shore purchased four IC 1000 class steeplecabs from them through Iron and Steel Products, Inc. The South Shore 900 class was born.
Weighing in at around 97 tons, upon arrival the 900's instantly became the heavyweights of the South Shore fleet, besting the 1000's by 17 tons.
Delivery of the first of these units was made at the IC interchange at Kensington in April, 1941. Unit numbers 1000 (900), 1002 (902), and 1003 (901) began their duties on the South Shore by heading an eastbound freight to Michigan City. In essence, they delivered themselves. The last of the steeplecabs, unit 1001 (903, arrived in July of that year.
The 900's remained in their black IC livery until they were shopped, at which time they were repainted in orange and maroon. One of the early problems that the 900's presented was their headlight arrangement - the headlight and road number were encased together. When it was necessary to meet another train at night, the practice of switching off the headlight would also switch off the road number. Consequently, train crews were having difficulties recognizing which train they were meeting. At least one employee solved this problem. Ed Hedstrom would stand in front of the headlight so that opposing crews could read the engine number. As it turned out, the problem was solved by adding additional numbers on top of the cab, which stayed on when the headlight was turned off.
A child eyes the photographer quizzically as No. 903 and 905 trundle a freight westward through East Chicago at Tod Stewart Street on April 5, 1942
In their eatly years, the 900's performed all the first-line freight duties on the railroad. At a distance, they were readily distinguished from the 1000's as their pantographs were centered on the cab roof. The pans on the 1000's were offset to one side, owing to the original installation of trolley poles. A more subtle difference involved the braking systems of the two classes - the 900's were equipped with New York air brakes, while the 1000's utilized the Westinghouse system.
CERA debuted the normally freight-service-only 900's September 21, 1941 on an annual fantrip. The train, shown at Hillside siding, featured loco No. 903, recently refurbished baggage car No. 503, and a pair of cabeese
When the 800's arrived on the scene in 1949, the big units bumped the 900's off the long haul duties on the South Shore. Per diem, commodity, and general merchandise runs were given up in favor of switching duties, relegating the 900's to a second class status. The 900's held onto the Gary switch job until 1955, when during that year 701 and 702, the first two of six 700 class motors, appeared on the South Shore and took on those duties.
There was not very much left for the 900's to do in their later years. They continued to perform switching chores; however, the intervals during which they were needed were becoming longer and longer. They were also getting less reliable as age crept up on them. On October 9, 1960, two of the 900's were used on a CERA fan trip from Randolph Street to New Carlisle. Though freshly painted, one of the steeplecabs malfunctioned, providing everyone on the trip with a vivid reminder that the end was coming soon.
They did, however, last until November, 1965, serving the South Shore for 24 of their 36 years. They should be remembered for their contributions to the war effort, when they helped to get the South Shore through the busiest time in its history. They performed their jobs well.
Still closed, but I have to dump this post tonight. Need soem extra hours of sleep before the work week starts! Ah, there it goes!
I must say I am still stunned after yesterdays big party at the Pent House! No one will believe what I saw so I better keep quiet!
Doug – I beleive you about the father of that Norwegian rooster, but I think you mean Norwegian Mean Blue! Poor Lars!The three-level car carriers are pretty high, like the ones in your picture and the ones in my picture below.West of Flagstaff, AZ.Some nice pictures from the Toy Train Show, including two of Big Boy haulinga passenger train! Very nice pictures from Orange Empire Railway Museum! Spent a day there in December last year! The PCC is a narrow gauge one, just like #3000 that I saw there. Tom – Belated Happy Birthday to your “better half”!!! You should add her to the list! I have not noticed any Posts being in the “wide format” and I don’t have a clue why that would happen. Bill Gates might know! I hope to see Rob back here at the bar soon! Waiting for more streetcars and stories about forgotten Canadian railroads! Hope to see “Forest Gump” coming up as the movie of the week soon, one of my favorite movies! Ahh, The World’s Fastest Indian is coming up this week! I have to make it to the Emporium one evening to see it! Like the other movie, White Squall! You picked some good movies (again)!Thanks for the nice words! I agree that the present group is very good and I especially appreciate that Dave is spending some of his limited time to visit the bar while being in Irak! I just set up a one of my widgets to count down to the Rendezvous in May. Today, Sunday, it is 47 days till May 18th! Thanks for the British posters for the London & North Western & Caledonian Railways and “The Silver Jubilee”!!! Maybe DL and/or Pete can tell more about the Grampian Corridor? Four hours travel time from London (King’s Cross) to Newcastle! How far is that?
James – Nice pictures from Chicagoland! F40 pulling a commuter train. I wonder if the second picture is showing the same train set? At least it has the same number of white cars and in the same positions! Hard to tell though. 30 trains in 30 minutes? Must be counting both directions. Pete – I understand that Bathams may cause problems finding the correct location for pictures! I understand that you have had some rough days. I think that you are correct about ASEA building the traction equipment for the APT.Four more German narrow gauge locos, Class 99! Nice pictures! What is the building, BHG Hasselfelde? I guess it has some connection to the railroad. Now I fully understand AWK’s behavior! Mike – A bunch of interesting url’s as usual covering everything (almost) from baseball to WW II! Interesting to see the pictures of the Mustangs and also the view over Coventry, where one can see the new Cathedral next to the old one! Dave – Thanks for the round! I hope you will get your mail intact! Looking forward to the story of the poultry car! Be careful!
Good evening Captain Tom and...
Leon, I know you are closing in a few minutes, but what is all the noice? Really!???! Manager Lars and R...? In the Penthouse? Wow, no I don't... okay, here are some pictures, I must have a look!
Late, late, late. I am just throwing in some pictures and will be back Monday with an inclusive post! Just want to salute Dave!! Be careful!!
Philadelphia.
Cab signal.
Stockholm, Sweden.
The old country.
Berne, Switzerland.
Point of Rocks, MD.
Another round Tom
Dave, always great to read your posts. My URLS will keep. You didn't miss much except 4 great color pictures of the P-51, in production at the factory in Inglewood, on the tarmac and one aerial photo where you could see the pilot. It's truly an additional hardship if guys cannot even view pictures on the internet. Needless to say I am in awe of everyone who serves over there, and particularly of a middle-aged guy with a family. Keep safe!
Mike
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter