Hi Tom and all .
A large Bathams XXX please LEONSorry folks I have just spent well over 2 hours doing my post only to have lost it.I will start again in word and see you all tomorrowPete
Good evening Tom and gang. I'll have a bottomless draught and buy a round for everyone present. Thanks for posting the Marx ENCORE, Tom. Glad I don't buy my gas in CM3's neck of the woods, though I suppose $2.80 is just around the corner for us too.
Here are some more pix from Sunday's show. DOes anyone have any of these?
G'day Gents!
OPTIONAL Toy 'n Model Trains Day!
Initially Posted on Page 332 of the original Thread
Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements.
Louis Marx and Company (courtesy: Marx Toy Museum) Louis Marx and Company was an American toy manufacturer from 1919 to 1978. Its boxes were imprinted with the slogan, "One of the many Marx toys, have you all of them?" The Marx logo was the letters "MAR" in a circle with a large X through it, resembling a railroad crossing sign. Because of this, Marx toys are sometimes misidentified as "Mar" toys. Marx's toys included tinplate buildings, toy soldiers, toy dinosaurs, mechanical toys, toy guns, action figures, dolls, doll houses, toy cars, and HO scale and O scale toy trains. Marx's less-expensive toys were extremely common in dime stores, and its larger, costlier toys were staples for catalog retailers such as Sears and Montgomery Ward, especially around Christmas. Although the company is now largely forgotten except by toy collectors, several of its toys remain well known. Rock'em Sock'em Robots, introduced in the 1960s, remained popular for years and has been reintroduced by several different companies. Its last hurrah was the Big Wheel ride-on pedal toy, which was introduced in 1969 and became one of the most popular toys of the 1970s. Founded in 1919 in New York City by Louis Marx and his brother David Marx, the company's basic policies were "Give the customer more toy for less money," and "Quality is not negotiable," which made the company highly successful. Initially the company had no product designs and no manufacturing capacity, so Marx raised money by positioning itself as a middle man, studying available products, finding ways to make them cheaper, and then closing a sale. Funds raised from these effort proved sufficient to purchase tooling for two obsolete tin toys-called the Alabama Minstrel Dancer and Zippo the Climbing Monkey-from toymaker Ferdinand Strauss, one of Louis Marx's former employers. With subtle changes, Marx was able to turn these toys into hits, selling more than 8 million of each within two years. Marx then bought the company it had subcontracted to manufacture the toys. By 1922, both Louis and David Marx were millionaires. Initially Marx produced few original toys, but was able to predict what toys would be hits and manufacture them less expensively than the competition. The yo-yo is an example: Although Marx is sometimes wrongly credited with inventing the toy, Marx was quick to market its own version, and during the 1920s sold an estimated 100 million of them. A Marx train set made in the late 1940s or early 1950s. (GNU Free Documentation) Unlike most companies, Marx's revenues grew during the Great Depression. By 1937, the company had more than $3.2 million in assets ($42.6 Mil. in 2005 dollars), with debt of just over $500,000. Marx was the largest toy manufacturer in the world by the 1950s. In a 1955 article, Time Magazine proclaimed Louis Marx "the Toy King," and that year, the company had about $50 million in sales. Marx was the initial inductee in the Toy Hall of Fame, and his plaque proclaimed him "The Henry Ford of the toy industry." At its peak, Louis Marx and Company operated three manufacturing plants in the United States: Erie, Pennsylvania, Girard, Pennsylvania, and Glen Dale, West Virginia. The Erie plant was the oldest and largest, while the Girard plant, acquired in 1934 with the purchase of Girard Model Works, produced toy trains, and the Glen Dale plant produced toy cars. Additionally, Marx operated numerous plants overseas. "Donald the Demon" figurine In 1963, they began making a series of plastic figurines called the Nutty Mads which included some almost psychedelic creations such as Donald the Demon: a half duck half madman, driving a miniature car. In 1972, Marx sold his company to the Quaker Oats Company for $54 million ($246 Mil. in 2005 dollars) and retired at the age of 76. Quaker owned the Fisher-Price brand, but struggled with Marx. Quaker had hoped Marx and Fisher-Price would have synergy, but the companies' sales patterns were too different. Marx has also been faulted for largely ignoring the trend towards electronic toys in the early 1970s. In late 1975, Quaker closed the plants in Erie and Girard, and in early 1976, Quaker sold its struggling Marx division to the British conglomerate Dunbee-Combex-Marx, who had bought the former Marx UK subsidiary in 1967. A downturn in the British economy in conjunction with high interest rates caused Dunbee-Combex-Marx to struggle, and these unfavorable market conditions caused a number of Briti***oy manufacturers, including Dunbee-Combex-Marx, to collapse. By 1978 the Marx brand disappeared, and Dunbee-Combex-Marx filed for bankruptcy and was liquidated in 1980. The Marx assets were then liquidated, with many of the patents and molds going to Mego Corporation, another famous maker of dime store toys, and a large number of them going to Canadian toy maker Aurora. The rights to some of Marx's toys are now owned by other companies, and some of its former products are still in production. Marx Toys, Inc., owns the rights to many Marx action figures. Marx Trains, Inc. produces lithographed tin trains, both of original design and based on former Louis Marx designs. K-Line produces plastic O scale train cars and scenery using former Marx molds, which it markets under its own brand name. Model Power produces HO scale trains from old Marx molds. Rights to the original Marx Big Wheel are owned by KidsWheels, Inc., and Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots is owned by Mattel. Marx's toy soldiers and other plastic figures are in production today in China for the North American market and are mostly targeted at collectors, although they sometimes appear on the general consumer market, particularly at dollar stores. The Marx name itself has changed hands several times as well. Despite the similar names, neither of the Marx-branded companies of today have any connection to the original Louis Marx and Company. The original Marx toys are highly regarded by collectors. Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements.
***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****
Two URLs to peruse http://www.thortrains.net/marstart.html http://www.tr
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. Gas went up another ten cents yesterday to $2.80. Also, most of the state is on life support after that basketball game last night that Tom mentioned. I can't take much more!
Lars stopped by with comments and book covers; I'll have to see if I can find a copy of NP Diesel Era. BTW, if folks haven't enlarged the cover for D&H in Color Vol. 2 do so and look at the consist that's on the bridge! Hot !@#$
Pete - Comment re different engines were well taken, especially re Alco; we won't even get into Baldwin and F-M here. Let me call your attention to a book that will be out soon; J. Parker Lamb, Evolution of the North American Diesel Locomotive. I pre-ordered mine from Amazon and am looking forward to its release later this year. Starucca Viaduct was discussed a few posts back when the first of the D&H articles appeared.
James - we'll do some 645 material soon. The SD45s were, IMHO, about the best looking of the EMD C-C freight units; especially when they operated long hood first - truly bestial! GP30 takes the prize for the B-B units.
Barndad stopped by with all sorts of pictures. Those interested in finding out more about the "Badger" should go to the C&O Historical Society's site and look around. Although I don't do Marx, the B&LE and DL&W cars might well have found a good home at my place - excellent!
Eric - I guessed it might have been an F18, oh well, I have seen all of them fly at one time or another. The sound of the P51 is something else, along with that of a P38.
DL provided a good post and travelogs. The gcrailway website has some good material - the link worked fine.
Mike sent pictures, Mike sent pictures!
The D&H 18 is at the old Albany station. Check out the NYC Flexivan in the background (the ancestor to today's container cars). D&H 17 is also at Albany. NYC 4041, an E8 is in the "cigar band" livery.
Sweet mercy - a D&H Challenger. The PRR switcher is a brand new Alco, blt. At Schenectady and doubtless en route to it's new home. Check out the 3-dome tank car and the o/b wooden boxcar right behind the PRR engine. The yellow warning sign in the front of the picture is to let flanger/plow operators know there is a potential "catching" hazard ahead - probably a switch.
The 2-8-0 picture is a good one for all sorts of trackside details - take a look at the D&H signal on the rt. Hand side of the photo.
I can't begin to say enough about the UP train in Kansas; almost forty years ago in a world that has all but vanished.
The LV pup at Jersey City is a good shot as you can look at it and figure out how the trackage for the car floats worked. The Morning Sun books on the Valley have some more pictures in greater detail. Carl Condit's books on the Port of New York (sadly out of print and prohibitibely expensive when you can find them) have a lot of good material on rr operations in NY harobor.
I will leave comments on the other shot to our Canadian and UK wizards.
OSP - Sid Gordon? Born in Brooklyn, lifetime .283 average; played every infield position except SS, and also played the OF.
I can beat that on the Braves side of things as I have a Vern Bickford card; Vern was the pride of Hellier, Kentucky.
Last, good night "Piano Legs" Hickman, wherever you are. With a name like that, he deserves a spot on the Mentor nine. Man they, don't even have names like that anymore.
The Aerotrain pictures were good. The first one, a NYC publicity shot was made near Breakneck - Lovely four track main line with a cantilever signal. The last one is interesting because, there is a B&O CPL signal over the fourth car - maybe taken near Chicago?
Well, I gotta get out of here.
Work safe
Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house
D&H PA4 Albany 1968
http://67.15.20.45/images/d/DH68419216w.jpg.50855.jpg
http://67.15.20.45/images/d/DH680419242w.jpg.40092.jpg
D&H 4-6-6-4 and Pennsy switcher Schenectady, NY 1948
http://67.15.20.45/images/d/DandH1502.jpg.93886.jpg
D&H 2-8-0 Schenectady, NY 1948
http://67.15.20.45/images/d/DandH1121.jpg.25833.jpg
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/u/UP934eastTr118_EllisKS_1968_08_rpnet1024.jpg.88729.jpg
http://67.15.20.45/images/v/Vulcan_Foundry.jpg.81834.jpg
CP FP9 Alberta 2003
http://67.15.20.45/images/c/cp1400morants140903.jpg.JPG.77164.jpg
X2000 Ralingsås 2006
Lehigh Valley EMC SW Jersey City 1950
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/l/LV108JerseyCityNJcarfloats1050rp.jpg.65610.jpg
Mike
PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #29 Initially Posted on Page 171 of the original Thread
Here's something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with Classic Trains. Check out this advertisement regarding the Canadian Pacific from 1950:
18 vacation delights seeing EAST-to-West Canada
Value-minded travelers go Canadian Pacific! Want your vacation sunny and salty? With family fun?
1. It's waiting in down-east Nova Scotia at the Digby Pines, a picturesque hotel and cottage colony. 2. Your comfort's in the good care of Canadian Pacific. 3. Like "another world" city? See Old Québec. 4. Ride in a Calèche. 5. Shop winding streets. 6. Visit Ste. Anne de Beaupré, 7. Or Isle d'Orléans! 8. Relax gaily at Canadian Pacific's great Château Frontenac! 9. Onward! By Canadian Pacific train, notred for food and service. 10. Stop in gay Montréal, queenly Ottawa or colorful Toronto. 11. But stay and Play in Ontario's lake-and-woods country! 12.Westward! Along the scene north shore of Lake Superior and across rolling prairies. 13. Then through the sky-high Canadian Rockies try Canadian Pacific Diesel train! 14 Stop at Banff Springs and Lake Louise and see unparalleled beauty! 15. Roll on by Canadian Pacific through Evergreen scenery. 16. Visit Victoria and reel in roses! 17. Stay there the Empress set in famous gardens! 18. Golf, swimming, sailing, fishing . . . take your choice! Ask your travel agent about a world of service: To Europe by White Empress ships. Two Canadian Pacific air routes; to the Far East, or New Zealand and Australia. Across Canada, 19 fine hotels and resorts.
Canadian Pacific
See your local agent or Canadian Pacific in principal cities in U.S. and Canada
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
CP FP7A #1418 (courtesy: www.trainweb.org)
Royal CP exiting the Spiral Tunnels. Mt. Stephen in background.
CP "The Canadian" (foto credit: CP)
Enjoy! Tom
Courtesy: http://www.viarail.ca/
Wednesday's Witticism
You can never trust a man who can look a pretty woman in the eye.
Mid-week in mid-continent USA and petrol has jumped to $2.49 (rounded) - temps still in the mid-70s (F) - and life goes on.
Supposed to remain 20 degrees above "normal' ‘round here ‘til the weekend, then some rain arrives with things returning to where they should be at this time of year. Can't believe the height of the green, green grass - flowers popping up - "things" in bloom - bugs buzzin' and so on. Ahhhhhhh, spring.
Hey guys, responses aren't required for that Email I sent out - but thanx to those of you who have. I'm not planning on any follow-ups regarding that subject.
Hey Shane! I see where WVA pulled out a squeeker in the final second to reach the finals of the NIT. Way to go!
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS (since my last narrative):
CM3 at 8:40 AM yesterday: Ah, the Boston Braves - I recall a baseball card featuring Sid Gordon! <who??> Somewhere in my "stack of stuff" - or better put, boxes of "treasures," are scorecards and yearbooks from Ebbetts Field (Dodgers), the Polo Grounds (Giants) and Yankee Stadium (guess who?) with the great 1950s teams. Memories are made of this! (Dean Martin - mid 50s) . . . .
Nice rundown on those EMD switchers . . . .
Glad you liked the monthly Cdn significant events list . . .
Thanx for the visit, quarters ‘n round. [yeahh]
Lars at 11:03 AM yesterday: Didn't expect to see ya and I feel "responsible" for shaking you loose. Nevertheless, without your Post, it would've been quite a drought once again, as no one showed up ‘til Pete's late afternoon visit.
Many thanx for the Email(s).
Yes, that was a fine Post from Dave and surely provided a "shot in the arm" insofar as rekindling the motivation to keep going . . . "Play to those who care!" should be the mantra.
Nice of you to research out a few book covers to supplement the D&H ‘n NP "stuff" . . .
Thanx for the visit and round - and we'll see ya on Thursday!
Pete at 6:54 PM yesterday: Another fine inclusive ‘n informative Post from "eagle eye" Pete! Numbers on the tail of the aircraft!! Who else but Wolfman wudda caught THAT
I'll have to see if I can find "Mirror, Mirror" on the web to listen to. The title rings a bell, but I can't place the tune; zither - fascinating!
Appreciate the visit ‘n round!
James at 9:08 PM yesterday: Regarding the Xplorer - I think the reverse of what you opined is true - Aussies followed our lead. Glad you found the Post of interest.
Gotta watch that caffeine, it will "get ya" everytime!
Thanx for a most interesting ‘n inclusive Post!
Doug at 9:38 PM yesterday: Another night time appearance from the barn weevil!
Purple Martins and ship models???? WHAT in the world . . .
Eric at 1:08 AM today: A continuing ray of hope for this joint as our Resident Desert Swede comes through one more time with a fine inclusive ‘n informative Post. Not to say that the guys who are participating aren't doing their "bit," for all of you surely ARE, but it's the "style" and manner in which the interaction takes place that "grabs" my attention.
Whatever "works" for the individual surely will fit right in ‘round here. Many thanx for a fine inclusive ‘n informative exchange of info on our favorite subject - classic trains!
I will dig up some additional info on the Xtrain and provide a follow-up as there has been a bit of interest with it. Good questions . . .
You, Sir, are far ‘n away leading the pack of Rendezvous attendees with your "pitch" for the Route 66 "thing"!
Wood paneling inside a cab?????
Many thanx for the visit and business!
DL at 5:03 AM today: Another reason for hope ‘round here as you provided one ‘hulluva' Post for the gang.
Was hoping you'd come through with the amplifying info on the Chunnel Chuggers and you didn't disappoint.
Yes, Pete ‘n I will be "stuck" aboard the Renaissance equipment (no domes) for our round trip to Halifax from Montreal, however, we'll have the Budd streamliners for the Gaspe trip - with a dome at that!
I'm hoping that this latest court ruling will force VIA Rail to lay up those cars and put the Budd stuff back on the line. Oh if wishes were horses,
Good morning Tom and gang. I'll take a light breakfast for the road please. Looks like a good start to the rainy day with a visit from Eric and DL. BTW, I liked that aircraft photo too. I think we're allowed to appreciate things other than trains. As for the 3rd Rendezvous that is frequently mentioned, I'm still treating it as a "go" no matter what, and am always looking for the things we can do when it happens!
Thought I'd drop a few Marx pictures from the show, as this was a manufacturer we discussed on the original thread.
This little guy was $30
This guy was the nost expensive of all the cars. $40
Have a great day!
Hello Tom and all in
Please can I have a light breakfast, fruit juice and coffee. Thanks.
Afraid I've had too much trouble trying to catch up on past posts that I've ended up not posting anything - so struck me that it perhaps made more sense to cut to the now, post some stuff and try and link in, rather than spend time on catch up. So sorry that this does not really focus too much on other posts but I hope you'll forgive that.
I've certainly seen some good stuff (eg Doug - I really was interested in the sage of the University / Coal Haulier stuff a while back - hard to understand how road haulage could ever compete with a bulk commodity like coal which is ideally suited to rail - makes you wonder what the heck was going on. Also Eric - liked the pic of that Mustang - I think you people call them P51s? To my mind the Mustang never LOOKED as good as the Spitfire, but they probably were as good. I think I read some were fitted with Rolls Royce engines too).
Pete - Tom - fate of the chugger cars - good question. I think the truth on this is mixed up with the way the railway here was privatised - which was done so badly it beggars belief - and we still have a mess 10-15 years later. This put a block on the level of investment for roll out of projects. I'm certain that if this had all happened back in the 1970s the high speed TGV style line from London would have been ready for the tunnel opening date and the sleepers would be ready for that date too. Instead the high sped line will now open this November to great fanfare - but in reality 15 years behind the date it should have been ready.
This allowed the budget airlines to get a toe hold in the market - and the privatisation destroyed the system BR had whereby you could book continental train tickets right through to your continental destination - unbelievably you still can't do this with Eurostar - it is only easy to book through to Paris or Brussels. Beyond that you have to engage with a specialist agent - this is absolutely crazy. You also can't book a through ticket from any UK station - just from London - this was never the way with BR - even though there was no tunnel in those days! We have lost so much - talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
When the chugger project got put on ice (and I've posted detailed stuff about that on the old thread) the cars were laid up in store. There was talk about them being used to update the UK internal sleeper fleet (To Scotland and Cornwall) but by that time BR had destroyed most of this market by throwing away their advantages - and the privatised operators did not want to invest in the new cars for a service they would have liked to have been shot of anyway (so this means when the UK internal fleet reach the end of their day - probably in 10 - 15 years time max - I think that will be the end of sleeper services in the UK I fear). So the sale to VIA went through, the UK govt must have been very pleased to get shot of the cars.
I know Pete and Tom will be using these soon and although we know Tom's view (keep calm sir!) - I will be interested to hear what Pete has to say on these cars. My view - they are good cars - just on the wrong continent!!!
Ironic thing about all of this is that the whole mood about travel on cheap airlines is changing - as it becomes more mass market those with some sense of discernment - and / or concern about the environment - are switching to rail. I know friends who have an ambivalent attitude to rail travel who are now doing their summer holiday in Europe by train because they are a) fed up with the poor service on the ‘cheap airlines' and b) fed up with the aggressive security hassle at airports these days.
OK - these people are ‘pioneers' - but the interesting thing is that the ‘travel' pages of the newspaper supplements are now carrying articles about taking holidays by train on an almost weekly basis. Meanwhile the UK govt has sold the infrastructure to make the service thoroughly enjoyable from here in the UK! This is the argument for ‘slow travel' and I for one believe this is the way the future will go for many people. It's like the organic food movement - there are actually enough people out there with the money to pay for the product - they are not always interested in the ‘cheapest' of everything.
Anyway- just a report back on couple of trips:
1) Great Central Steam railway - this was a cold February day when service was pretty quiet. Interesting thing was though that the repair shed was very busy so it was easy to chat to guys working on various locomotives - a Black 5, a King Arthur, and (I think) the Britannia - Pete will give a run down on these designs from his own personal knowledge I feel sure. It was good to see and nice to talk to these guys putting in the seat to get the stuff rolling. I particularly enjoyed chatting to a guy fixing up a Black 5 from scrap yard condition - so after the event I sent them a modest financial contribution - they were kind enough to join me up as a ‘supporter' in exchange - I got an interesting newsletter about the loco.
The engine in steam that day was the GCR Class 8K 2-8-0 built way back in 1911. See
http://www.gcrailway.co.uk/locos/e63601.htm
It is painted up in plain 1950s black paint scheme - I wonder what it would have looked like in 1911. It would be nice to see the original paint scheme one day. This has been restored from scrap condition too.
2) Not long after that I had to make a work trip to Derby - quite a lot of older diesels from the 1950s and 1960s parked up outside the old BR Research HQ - classes 31, 33, 37, 47 and 45 plus the high speed track recording train - which is converted from a High Speed Passenger Diesel Train.
Other news - the govt have announced they are to pursue the funding of 1,000 new passengers cars to be introduced by 2014 - good to hear, but we have quite a few stories of fare increases which no doubt help to pay for this stuff. Many of these will of course replace existing older cars, but some are to cater for expansion and tackle over crowding on routes. Back in the late 80s and 90s the govt of the day would not give BR the funds to build cars for decent length trains so we have a lot of problems with over crowding now.
Also - as some will now know my e-mail is up and running and hopefully people will have got an off ether communication form me - more or less just to say ‘hello'.
Best wishes
DL
Good morning, Captain Tom and all!!
Leon, Tuesday, let's have a Sugar Cured Ham Sandwich on Rye! Yes, the ham must be col! Coffee please!
Again a lot to read, here at the bar!! We had a windy day in the Valley today, gusts up to 50 m.p.h. The gas prices are now breaking the $3.00 barrier!
Doug – Mosquitos!? In March? Wow, you bought a house in the wrong place! Thanks for the answers to my questions! Whatever will happen to the bar, we need a Rendezvous next year too and visit the IRM! More Delaware & Hudson! This time a lot about signaling, which is something I am very interested in! I wonder if Caboose #10 is still around? Airbrake instruction car! That is something I tried when training to become an engineer! All those pipes under the removed floor simulate a long train so brake application and release times will be more realistic. Ticonderoga Railroad Co. I am sure they are no longer around, but maybe their tracks are still being used. I can’t reacall I saw that General Office building in Albany. But I did not look around that much. Thanks for all the pictures from that train show! That is an amazing model of a train ferry! Everything, inside out, is there!!James – N&P #3! And first of all a picture from Bozeman Pass! Beautiful country! Interesting to read about the struggle for shares and power!
It is hard to tell where those photos are coming from. That is the reason I am asking! And you are also right that many areas in different states in the southwest look very much the same. I never operated Class Ue but Class Ub many, many times. Ue was a reabuilt Ub. The inside of the cab below.
Class Ue.
Tom – I’ll do my best to convince you about my reasons to win whatever “Route 66-thing” you have. Ohio Xplorer Cleveland - Cincinnati! Was that a new train in 1956? Cleveland-Cincinnati is not very far, did they extend the service to other cities later? That train certainly looked different! Kind of a “low-rider”!CM3 – I am afraid I have to correct you, it is not a F18 in my picture, it is a F-15E. But what the heck, they have nothing to do with railroads! At least not when flying. I just learned that the D&H building in Albany still stands! Thanks! Do you know what it is used for now?Thanks for the 567 info! I have copied it for future use!Lars – Off topic, but I think P-51 Mustang is a very good looking airplane! Beautiful!Thanks for those book covers! I like the picture on the top one, The Vista Dome North Coast Limited! Just wish I was on the train instead of sitting here. Pete – You are right, Class Ub was built in the 30’s and most of them rebuilt to remote controlled Ue’s in the late 80’s and early 90’s. Ub (and Ue) was an extremely good locomotive for switching. Small but could pull almost anything you hooked it up to. Yes, I saw the letters on the tail of the F-15, SJ. Which is the initials for the Swedish State Railways! My visit to Coventry was mainly to see the bombed Cathedral from WW II.
Eric
Good evening Leon and crew. I'll have a nightcap, your choice, and buy a round for the house. Can't believe I typed CN, when I was thinking Canadian on Tom's Canadian history post. I've obviously killed too many brain cells, but haven't lost the knack to make people groan, right CM3? That last H&D article wasn't quite the last one, as there is still one more to go. I'll probably put it up Thursday on Fish N' Chip night. Good to see manager Lars pop in and drop off NP and H&D bookcovers. James is sure filling the thread with NP material these days!
Nifty NYC pix from the captain to compliment their ad. I'd be way off topic to discuss Purple Martins with Peter, but let's just say they're the largest of the swallow family, supposedy eat up to 2,000 mosquitos a day, live in colonies and can be found about anywhere in North America provided they are given the right type of housing. Griggsville Illinois is the Purple Martin capital of the world, and you can keep track of all things Purple Martin by joining the Nature Society. I'll post a picture of my Martin house on Saturday.
For now, I'd like to get an early jump on a pike piece for tomorrow, as I took a lot of pictures while at a train show in Rockford last Sunday. I thought tonight I'd share pix of the Badger, which I'm sure you all remember from a post or two on the original thread. Here, someone has taken incredible time and money to scratch build a model. Notice the different layers, and by the way, the trains pull in and out of the holding area automatically
Have a great night!
G-day Tom and all present!
Leon- could I get a "really" big cup of coffee along with a turkey sandwich please. Thanks.
Tom- Umm... Maybe it's the coffee. I don't know how I mistook the air force for you..... Boggling.. I'm trying to make you older... But I will make sure it is changed.
So, correction is in need. Happy 60th B-day to the Air Force!!
Onward with the acknowledgements
Thanks for the Passenger Nostalgia on the New York Central and the interesting looking NYC Xplorer. That is an odd looking passenger train. I haven't seen anything like it before. It looks similar to a train I saw in a picture from Australia. Its shape is similar to the one you have depicted. So I'm wondering if they didn't take a portion of the design from an Australian made locomotive and used it in the design of the Xplorer when Pullman built it. Any ideas
Mike- Interesting story on Josiah Perham and Gregory Smith. They were some die hard railroaders, but it seems Perham didn't have what it took to keep his railroad out of debt. But I'm sure the Civil War contributed in his debt. To bad he had to die a poor man, but he certainly didn't have to worry about his debt anymore. Also some great pics to go along with it. A couple of my favorite photos are of the Northern Pacific Minnetonka, which is stored in the Depot in Duluth, and the Duluth shots. The other Northern Pacific shots were pretty cool. Thanks for all of the photos.
Eric- Glad you liked the Northern Pacific article. There was quite a bit information to take in, but all-in-all, it was a good piece of history and I learned some from it myself.
BTW: It's so hard to know where some of your photos come from. Most of the land is so similar down in the south that it's hard to tell. But the picture was a good one. Next time I'll try to guess a little better than I did. Also, I really liked that little Class Ue electric. What a cool looking center cab unit. It reminds me of the Milwaukee road's steeple cab which is similar to that locomotive. Pretty cool.
Doug- I am enjoying your articles very much. They are quite entertaining. This next article you posted looks really good. I really like the switch tower as your first picture. So it has intrigued me already. Ah, after reading your article, I have to say it is another excellent piece to the Delaware and Hudson history. Amazing how the railroad took over the boating industry so quickly on the coal. Very cool. Thanks for sharing.
CM3- Well I am one of the mechanical people. I like to get down and see what's up. The 567 was one of those engines that just has that distinctive sound, especially the 645 prime mover found in the SD45. 20 cylinders and a hunger for diesel fuel. This engine put out 3600 HP and was even known to break it's own crank shaft. The Wisconsin Central was smart when they got there SD45s. They lowered the RPMs so the diesel engine wouldn't work the crank shaft as hard meaning fewer breaks. So the locomotive put out less HP, about 3000. They were also more efficient than they were before. Oops, got off track, Thanks for the info on what locomotive had what primer mover. Interesting to see.
Lars- Ya, you're right. I need to take it slow. Otherwise little bloopers appear. But I am now taking it slower and getting things right now.....until my next blooper. So, I'm glad you liked the model pics. The picture with me in it, I am to the left with a short sleeved blue tee-shirt. I'm sorry things got mixed up. I hope you now understand. Thanks for letting me know.
BTW: Thanks for all the book covers again. One book caught my eye right off the bat. The first book, The Vista Dome North Coast Limited. That is an excellent book. It's in my archive of books. It has all the information you need to know. I don't think he left anything out of it. I can't believe the information the man packed into that book. I certainly recommend this book to anyone interested in modeling or just enjoying passenger trains.
Pete- Glad you liked the pictures of Fred's layout. I just can't imagine how he did all of that. It's really amazing. Anyway, I'm glad you liked the NP part 3. Like I said, I even learned some about the railroad. It was definitely an interesting subject.
Happy railroading
James
Hi Tom and all.
A pint of Batham's please RUTH and a round please.
It has been a busy evening and morning at the bar with a lot of great reading material and pics.
JAMES Thanks for the kind words on the pics.It sounds as that is going to be a very accurate model of Chicago's Union Station.Enjoyed part 3 of the Northern Pacific, it was very interesting to read of the battles the various companies had in trying to get to Chicago. I guess if the Union Pacific had gotten hold of the CB&Q all those years ago there would not have been the BNSF today.
MIKE Very much enjoyed reading about the exploits of Josiah Perham and Gregory Smith and the NP. It was a shame that J. Perham's dream did not come off.He derseves a lot of credit in persuading the railroads to run excursion trains. It is said the the Great Exhibition in London, England in 1851 was the first time masses of people used the railway to visit an event in the UK. Although James Cook, who founded the very popular travel agency, was the first person in England to run an Excursion train.
Many thanks for the links, great photos of the NP under construction as well as the last spike cermony and some really good color pics .Minnetonka looks an interesting engine.
ERIC I have not seen a remote controlled electric switcher before.I guess the Ub was a quite an old class of locomotive before being converted to a UeThanks for the photo.
I am afraid I don't know anything about the Janesville & Southeastern RR but I have a pic of the emblem that was on the E7.
.
Alan is travelling to the steam railways of Europe after visiting nearly all the preserved lines in the UK.I will pass on your thanks for the pics..
So I was pretty close with the State in your picture having said New Mexico. My home town is about 12 miles southeast of Coventry, it was mainly known for its 2 large electrical manufactures and as a major railway junction.The town has a Public School(which has a different meaning, I believe, to a public school in the U.S.) which was the birthplace of Rugby Football which was named after the town.
That is a great photo from the Air Force Base last Saturday, did you notice the letters on the tail of the middle aircraft.
DOUG You will have to tell me about those Purple Martins, do they eat mosquitos. As you say they are about now and seem particularly mean. I was bitten at the weekend and I have little immunity to them and it comes up in a big lump,although I have some ointment the Doc gave me.I think they like English blood and tell there pals where to find some.At least the one who bit me was after I had been to Pats Place so hopefully it got a hangover.
Many thanks for the latest installment on the D&H with those great old photos, liked the list of the Subsiduaries. I see the gravity railroad lasted to about 1900. I wonder if any of the stationary engine houses has survived.
The IRM certainly has a large collection of RR cars .
CM3 The 567 certainly was a successful design for EMD from Switchers to the all of the F units.If I can recall right, some of the other locomotive manufactures had terrible trouble with their diesel engines at the same time the 567 series was doing so well.I suppose EMD great success today in the world market in diesel locomotives can be traced back to the 567.
Thanks for the info on the Governor Smith CV # 29 she was a longed lived locomotive before she was sold on.
LARS So my exam is this Thursday. I will get some practise in .
Have to say I agree with what you say about Dave, good words indeed.
Great book covers on the two RRs that has been talked about at the bar.Although I have said it before those D&H colors seem to suit all types of diesel locomotives. That is a great looking viaduct the D&H train is passing under in the last cover
PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #28
Initially Posted on Page 170 of the original Thread
Here's something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with Classic Trains. Check this advertisement out (from The Official Guide of the Railways - 1956)
Extra service at no extra fare!
Route your passengers on the Central's newest train OHIO XPLORER CLEVELAND-CINCINNATI Built for the Central by Pullman-Standard, the beautiful, lightweight all-coach Xplorer brings a new look to American railroading. Travelers will appreciate being introduced to this train and its convenient schedule. *Hostess service
*Seat service for light meals from a rolling buffet
*Air cooled
*Reclining contour seats
*Separate bar-lounge car
(Standard Time)
Train #421 - Lv. Cleveland 6:45 AM - Ar. Cincinnati 12:15 PM
Train #422 - Lv. Cincinnati 1:45 PM - Ar Cleveland 7:15 PM
Also serving 8 cities in between
NEW YORK CENTRAL RAILROAD
NYC Xplorer - RP 210 #20 - photo by: Ed Novak; collection of Tim Darnell
NYC Xplorer - RP 210 #20 - photo by: Louis A. Marre; collection of Tim Darnell
Enjoy!
Tom
Ahoy Cap'n Tom 'n fellow travelers at the bar!
Ruth my deAH, so sorry 'bout yesterday, but things they happen . . .
But that was then and this is NOW, so set 'em up and I'll take a mugga Joe with one of those "BK splashes" and something from the menu board - hmmmmm, make it number three. Change is yours you sweet, sweet thing!
Nothing like an e-mail from Da Bossman to get the blood rushing, huh Didn't think I'd be "in" today, but found the time to address a few things to y'all by e-mail and drop this off too. Youse guys donwannaknow everything happen' in my house. Too much, but it will all pass - this time next year, I won't even remember it! <grin>
Wasn't that a great post from Dave over in Iraq?? Youbetchaboots! Now, if anyone of the guys who consider themselves "regulars" at this bar didn't catch it, then you're guilty of NOT READING - which of course is precisely what Da Bossman has had his fill of and the need for a "reminder" in Monday's morning report. 'nother subject . . .
Hope Dave makes it home safely and resumes his place at the bar. Sure miss guys like him and it's nice to know he's still "with us."
A B'day for Da Boss?? When?? Where?? Not here! <geesh>
Looks like we've gotten to another Tuesday, but no "theme." Maybe just as well, since the "count" is down for the daytime 'round here. In spite of it all, we've got a "ton" of stuff to pour through, which I'm gonna have to put on the back burner - at least 'til Thursday.
Loved the pix from Eric of those aircraft - a prop job amidst the jets looks "cool." Liked that nostalgia from Mike of the three Brooklyn Dodgers: Duke Snider - Gil Hodges - Pee Wee Reese. Surely brought to mind some memories of my own as the only "bums" fan in the house of "Giants."
Of course AWK is still here - he's one of the critters (mascots) that I provide treats for! <geesh.
Appears that the barn weevil is back on track and doing his best imitation of "20 Fingers," although that last one from Mike surely isn't for the faint of heart.
James came back from Chicago and has tried to catch up. Gotta take it on a slow bell (that's a nautical term) otherwise embarassing things can happen, huh
Nice stuff from the model railroad . . . any more may be better for tomorrow, "Toys & Model Trains Day." I'm confused a bit - which one is you in the photo? Maybe you should post it again.
Pete, your "exam" is Thursday evening. Figure that the Bar Chandler must be ready to go for Friday 'n Saturday "doings." So, come prepared and wear your wet suit! <huh??>
Since I've been little help 'round this thread for awhile, lemme provide some book covers to make up for it!
One more, Ruth, then it's back to the chores at hand . . .
Until the next time!
Lars
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please (and my slicker); round for the house and $ for the jukebox. Right now we are having "Scattered thunderstorms this afternoon."
Barndad - Groan is right - geez!
James - Glad to see my thoughts on Chicago track plan were "on target." It will be a challenge, especially operating trains under the shed in the station. Also, I enjoyed the 3rd NP article.
Mike - Thanks for sharing the Ed Hungerford piece. Twenty-five cents was "real money" back in the days of Perham's Panorama.
The picture of the "Governor Smith" sent me to the CV section of the east wing. Gov. Smith was #29 on the roster. She was constructed at St. Albans in 1883 had 17½x24 cylinders and 68" drivers. She was r#53 in the great renumbering which CV did around 1900. Then she was sold in 1930(!) to the Brattleboro and Whitehall RR.
The Dodgers in the rain picture was a good one; they are all in street clothes (check out the snappy shoes!). If they were playing the Barves and Spahn was due to pitch, he was probably glad it was raining as the Dodgers owned his !@#$ as I am sure OSP and Lars remember.
Eric sent along some comments and a good shot of a P51, F18 (I think), and an A-10.
Barndad - More D&H material. The D&H office building still stands - it is a magnificent structure and quite visible from Amtrak 48 when it crosses the river at Albany.
The remarks about Crescent tower brought to mind a good friend (now deceased) who was an operator there for mannnny years. He would show up every so often during refreshment time at some of our gatherings when I was living in Boston and regale us with stories of what went on there with D&H steam, etc. He worked for the B&M, and Crescent was a B&M installation.
OSP continues his listing of all things Canadian - these are all saved.
This last is for Pete (and other mechanical folks) -
The 567 prime mover was the foundation of EMDs success in the diesel market as it was applied to a variety of locomotives. The latter designations such as 567A, 567B, etc. tell what version it was as EMD continually upgraded it.
567s were in the following EMD switchers:
NW2, 3, 4, and 5
SW1, 7, 8, and 9
SW600, 900, 1200, 1000, 1001, and 1500
GMD 1
RS 1325
567s powered the BL1 and 2 (Nver quite sure where to place this as it was the direct ancestor of the GP series)
These EMD road switchers had 567s
GP 7, 7B, 9, 9B, 18, 20, 28, 30, 30B, and GP35
All F units were powered by 567s
These SDs had 567 engines
SD7, 9, 18, 24, 24B, 28, and 35.
Passenger units with 567s include
E3a, E3b, E4a, E4b, E5a, E5b, E6a, E6b, E7a, E7b, E8a, E8b, E9a, and E9b
FP7, FP9
FL9 (New Haven RR)
SDP35.
Awk, please pass the GoJo and a handful of shop towels- it's time to get out of the drop pit and clean up.
Greetings this Tuesday from mid-continent USA where the temps are to remain in the mid-70s (F), petrol still rather low at $2.29 (rounded) - but expected to rise as the global prices have shot up - and things ‘round here rather relaxed as we're enjoying my bride's spring break.
Coffee's hot - pastries fresh and breakfasts are ready for orderin' . . . .
Should mention that Lars dropped an Email my way and he'll be off-line for a day or so. Things to do ‘n places to go . . . .
CM3 at 9 AM yesterday: I ordered the RR History mag directly from the publisher. Many thanx for the info by Email . . .
Keep the recommendations comin' for movies at the Emporium - it surely helps!
Appreciate the info on the diesels. While I've never ventured under the hood of beasts such as those, my guess is that the "driveway tuneup" must've been quite the chore. <grin>
Thanx for the round, quarters ‘n visit!
Doug at 5:30 PM yesterday: Good to see ya as that was quite a drought between Posts - 8 ½ hours - not counting mine, of course.
Good to see ya and glad you liked that Cdn (not CN <grin>) historical "stuff" - always learn a lot from them, eh I do.
Thanx for the round ‘n of course, visit in the PM!
Pete at 6:21 PM yesterday: Many thanx for the fine inclusive ‘n informative Post - a Hallmark of yours, fer sure, fer sure!
Should we reach the end of the week with no "word" from the Bar Chandler, YOU Sir, are to assume the awesome responsibilities for the weekend.
EMD E8s are amongst my favorites when it comes to diesels - and that S-Capades Illinois Central is a beauty, fer sure, fer sure! Wasn't that long ago when you had her under your control while operating the layout . . .
Funny about that 3rd Man Theme - I too recall the zither - seems that was the first and ONLY time I ever heard one, much less the name!
Methinks DL could provide a better guesstimate regarding the fate of those "Chunnel Chuggers" had VIA Rail not come to the rescue. Man oh man, I could write an essay on just the things I know that went "wrong" with that purchase . . . <groan>
Time doth fly ‘round here as I too sometimes get a bit caught up in just how much "stuff" has been provided on these Pages (this ‘n the original site) since the bar opened back on Apr 12th, 2005.
James at 7:18 PM yesterday: Don't know what you've been drinking or smoking, young fella - but I didn't have a birthday lately!
Fine inclusive Post and appreciate your taking the time ‘n making the effort to catch up. Surely helps ‘round here with the dialogue.
A suggestion: If you ever find that you need to edit (correct) a previous Post, arrange it so that your correction goes first - then Post your newest stuff right after. That way when someone browses our Forum, they will see the most current Post rather than being brought back to something of a few days back. Example: that photo you provided with you being on the left, instead of the right. A correction (edit) would work nicely there.
Thanx for the visit!
Mike at 9:16 PM yesterday: A surprise visit from the man called wanswheel. Not-so-silent Mike provided a "goodun" and for me, that Pix of Duke, Gil ‘n Pee Wee made my day. Love the Boy's of Summer and those Bums were (and always will be) my favorite of favorites in sports of all kinds. A monster Post with something for everyone - Thanx!
Eric at 2:30 AM today: The return of our Resident Desert Swede, playing the role of Night Owl once again!
A fantastic Post - well put together, inclusive - informative and with humor. All the attributes we look for ‘round this joint!
Glad you too enjoyed the Cdn RR significant events . . . always a learning thing for me too.
The Route 66 "thing" awaits the guy who attends the Rendezvous with the most convincing "reason" to have "it." Your is the 1st attempt . . .
Loved that shot of the aircraft - diverse comes to mind. <grin>
Many thanx for the visit!
Doug at 5:02 AM today: Another early AM visit and appears that you're getting back into "old" form. Good to see ya and of course, appreciate the effort you put into your Posts. That final segment on the D&H is a great piece, something well worth reading!
Not to worry quite yet - reality is always just ‘round the bend, whether we like it or not. <grin>
Thanx for popping in to start off our day!
James at 8:16 AM today: And the finale for the Northern Pacific! Looks like the boyz at the bar have quite a readin' list this morning!
Ruth- Nice to see you on this warm morning. Could I get a coffee with one of those pastries. Thank you.
Just thought I would drop off #3 to my NP article.
A Northern Pacific train travels over Bozeman Pass, June 1939.
Throughout the middle 1880s, the Northern Pacific pushed to reach Puget Sound directly, rather than a roundabout route following the Columbia River. Surveys of the Cascade Mountains, carried out intermittently since the 1870s, now began anew. Virgil Gay Bogue, a veteran civil engineer, was sent to explore the Cascades again. On March 19, 1881, he discovered Stampede Pass. In 1884, after the departure of Villard, the Northern Pacific began building toward Stampede Pass from Wallula in the east and the area of Wilkeson in the west. By the end of the year, rails had reached Yakima, Washington in the east. A 77 mile (124 km) gap remained in 1886. In January of that year, Nelson Bennett was given a contract to construct a 9,850 foot (3,002 metre) tunnel under Stampede Pass. The contract specified a short amount of time for completion, and a large penalty if the deadline were missed. While crews worked on the tunnel, the railroad built a temporary switchback route across the pass. With numerous timber trestles and grades which approached six percent, the temporary line required the two largest locomotives in the world (at that time) to handle a tiny five-car train. On May 3, 1888 crews holed through the tunnel, and on May 27 the first train direct to Puget Sound passed through.
Despite this success, the Northern Pacific, like many U.S. roads, was living on borrowed time. From 1887 until 1893 Henry Villard returned to the board of directors. Though offered the presidency, he refused. However, an associate of Villard dating back to his time on the Kansas Pacific, Thomas Fletcher Oakes, assumed the presidency on September 20, 1888. In an effort to garner business, the Villard regime pursued an aggressive policy of branch line expansion. In addition, the Northern Pacific experienced the first competition in the form of James Jerome Hill and his Great Northern Railway. The Great Northern, like the Northern Pacific before it, was pushing west from the Twin Cities towards Puget Sound, and would be completed in 1893. To combat the Great Northern, in a few instances Villard built branch line mileage simply to occupy a territory, regardless of whether the territory offered the railroad any business. Mismanagement, sparse traffic, and the Panic of 1893 sounded the death knell for the Northern Pacific and Villard's interest in railroading. The company slipped into its second bankruptcy on October 20, 1893. Oakes was named receiver and Brayton C. Ives, a former chairman of the New York Stock Exchange became president. For the next three years, the Villard-Oakes interests and the Ives interest feuded for control of the Northern Pacific. Oakes was eventually forced out as receiver, but not before three separate courts were claiming jurisdiction over the Northern Pacific's bankruptcy. Things came to a head in 1896, when first Edward D. Adams was appointed president, then less than two months later, Edwin Winter. Ultimately, the task of straightening out the muddle of the Northern Pacific was John Pierpont Morgan. Morganization of the Northern Pacific, a process which befell many U.S. roads in the wake of the Panic of 1893, was handed to Morgan lieutenant Charles Henry Coster. The new president, beginning September 1, 1897, was
Good morning Tom and crew. I'll have a light breakfast please, and the hazelnut coffee. Like Eric, got my mail too, but I didn't want to believe it, so maybe it will just go away? Got and opportunity to do a little outside work yesterday, after my regular work of course. Cut down the old farm fence, which I will replace with new fencing so we have something expensive for the cucumbers to grow up. Still got a lot of rocks back there, and tilling to do. ALos planted the receiver sleeve way down in the ground (technically not my ground) to support the Purple Martin house. Sure hope I get some ... we already have mosquitos!
I noticed the lifting "lugs" on the front of the F7 too Peter. It was the only difference I saw between it and the IRM's 118-C, but I also know that similar body styles many times have nothing to do with the motors inside the shell. Some of the groups I'm in have guys who can tell you exactly what type of engine you have at a glance. They've really studied their subject.
Great to see James yesterday, and glad you're finding some of my stuff entertaining.
MIke gave us a great article yesterday and many outstanding URLs, as usual.
To answer some of Eric's questions, I guess the CTA has had quite a few paint schemes over their many years. Even today, "L" trains come in a variety of colors, which corespond to the particular "line" they travel. Every one of the trolley cars from the pageant are IRM cars. Many of them hide in the trolley barn, only to see the light of day on special occasions. Many more are being worked on, and are not available for public viewing. I believe the IRM owns about 350 different railroad cars. Not all of them are even on the property, as it's quite expensive and time-consuming to bring these cars in, not to mention that we have to have space to keep them once they arrive. The track department is vastly expanding that particular problem.
Here is the next-to-last installment of the H&D article to read with your morning coffees:
Delaware and Hudson by William L. Rhode April 1947 Railroad Magazine
Electrical interlocking plant at Schoharie Junction was begun in 1921
Among the highlights of the years before 1900 was the formation of the Brotherhood of Railroad Brakemen, now the B. of R.T. On September 23, 1883, eight trainmen met in Caboose Number 10 in the Oneonta Yards to found the new organization. This famous caboose was restored in 1924 and placed in Neahwa Park, Oneonta. Another, and even more important occurrence, was the report to the managers of 1898. For the first time a D&H president stated that "direct transportation by rail would be more economical than the present system of transportation by the gravity railroad and canal." This decision meant the end of the old water transportation system. In November of the same year, canal boat number 1107 cleared from Honesdale with the last load of coal to travel over the canal. The following year the gravity railroad put out the fires in its stationary engine boilers for the last time. Twenty-three miles of gravity track was changed to standard gage and the steam locomotive took over.
Older version of JX was housed in Schoharie Junction station
Progress between 1900 and 1907 was rapid and extensive. Block signaling was installed, newer and larger rolling stock was bought and the laying of heavier rail accomplished swiftly. The company reached into the electric field with the purchase of juice roads serving Schenectady Albany, Troy, Plattsburgh, and other parts of urban New York State. Hotels on Lake Champlain were rebuilt and steamer service improved to draw vacation travel. Today, these extracurricular activities have been discontinued.
Caboose Number 10, historic birthplace of the Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen, stands today in Neahwa Park, Oneonta, N.Y.
IN 1906 a million dollars plus obtained stock ownership of the Quebec, Montreal & Southern, a railroad on the south bank of the St. Lawrence, extending from St. Lambert sixty-two miles to Pierreville and with an eighty-one mile track from Pierreville south to Noyan Junction, which was handy to the D&H terminal at Rouses Point. The line was extended along the St. Lawrence about fifty miles to Fortierville, evidently with the idea of reaching Quebec and Levis.
Interior of D&H airbrake instruction car with floor boards lifted
The program of improvement embarked on at the close of World War I was to last twenty years and prove invaluable as the road came to depend less and less on its black gold and plunged into the business of selling transportation of a more diversified nature.
B.D. Anthony, sparkplug of the selling program for D&H services, knows that business won't walk into the picturesque general office building which has towered above the Hudson River docks at Albany since 1928. He believes in going out after it. A recent rumor that one of the largest American corporations was looking for a new factory site, put him on the train to New York that evening, and at the corporation's eastern office in the morning.
"Sorry," was the statement, "we don't know anything about a new plant."
The transportation seller smiled politely and telephoned the company's headquarters in Detroit. He followed executives by telephone to the west coast, to Boston, to Cleveland, argued, explained, cajoled until he found someone willing to talk a little about the proposed expansion plans. Then, emphasizing favorable conditions on the D&H such as good labor supply, access to markets and raw materials and, of course, fine transportation service, he sold them.
For another company the railroad searched out land titles, had foundation soundings made and by this extra service brought another traffic builder into their territory. In all, some thirty firms have been reached by D&H traffic simulators and have located on the railroad.
Old wooden-walled hoppers at Duffy's Field, coal storage plant near Carbondale, piled with black gold. Empties wait on center tracks for conveyors to load them for shipment north and east.
With thirteen paper mills along its eighteen-county route in New York and with slate and marble coming from the single county it operates in Vermont, all backed by the coal which pours from the three D&H counties in Pennsylvania, the road can boast enough steady home freight to keep the wheels turning, even without the interline carloads constantly moving in from traffic offices as far away as San Francisco.
New overpass and inclined lead were built over old yard spurs at Carbondale. Remains of tracks are visible beside new concrete piers of Dundaff street viaduct
On the D&H, as on many American railroads, varnish is a relatively small part of the haul. In 1945, for example, freight revenue was ninety-five percent, passenger revenue only five percent of total receipts. Seasonal traffic is heavy to Saratoga, watering place for five generations.. Passenger service from Albany to Binghamton is now two round trips daily over the 142-mile line. Commuter service exists only on the territory of the vanished gravity railroad., between Carbondale and Scranton. There is no through connection for travelers between Wilkes-Barre and the north. However, in connection with the New York Central, D&H offers the fastest and shortest service between New York and Montreal.
General offices of the company since 1915, the Plaza, Albany, N.Y., located at head of the Hudson passenger boat lines.
Delaware and Hudson interline service is today important enough for Erie, Pennsylvania, Lackawanna, Central of New Jersey and Lehigh Valley to occupy quarters on the ground floor of the massive general office building in Albany. From Union Station trains move up to Montreal or Binghamton on the D&H, which also provides a shuttle connection with Boston & Maine across the river at Troy. D&H trains utilize the lower level at Union Station, with hand thrown switches and a boomer operator whipping Morse from his Vibroplex in the yardmaster's office above the tracks.
Eighty percent of the world's ships can navigate the port of Albany the year round, carrying grain and other products to the largest single-unit grain elevators in the world. New York Central, West Shore, and to a lesser degree, Boston & Maine and Rutland compete for business at the state capital; but the D&H holds and can retain a generous share of originating traffic and interline hauls.
Consider the Erie's NE-74 out of Chicago at 8 .m., and making connection with D&H BM-11 at Binghamton at 11 p.m. From Mechanicsville, the red and yellow B&M Diesels push the carloads into Boston by four o'clock the next afternoon. Or take a carload leaving Chicago in the afternoon on NE-92; it will move to D&H's BM-5 and be in Boston the second evening as a part of the consist of RB-4. Similar fine service is operated or pending with Northern Pacific, the Wabash and Pere Marquette.
U.S. Postal car 705 shows characteristic D&H trimness, more grace than most mail cars.
The fast drags between Mickeyville and the southern interchange points feature handsome power - heavy, four-cylinder, simple articulateds, a type most prevalent among D&H freight hogs. With a tractive effort of 95,000 out of a total weight of 597,000 pounds, these giants and their twelve-wheel tenders roar up the double-iron main to cirlce into B&M territory at Crescent Tower, N.Y. Numbered in the 1500-series, they have six-space-six drivers carrying what seems to be an extra long, almost streamlined boiler.
Second team on the D&H power roster is the S 470 Class, numbered in the 300's. These 4-8-4 huskies have a maximum tractive power of 62,040 pounds with seventy-five inch driving wheels - larger than those of the 1500s - and smoke deflectors. They are a picture of speed and efficiency winding through the green hills and along the lakes at the head of eighteen Pullmans. But let's put our best frame about the print of a D&H 1500 or 300-Class coming at us through the afternoon sunshine. A rumble as she curves past around a red rock cut and tackles the long tangent towards the mountains, leaving a breath of sulphur and the bitter clean smell of steam to remember her by .. That was a Railroad Train!
Good morning Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!
Leon, I think I would like an early breakfast! Coffee and a fat Danish. Cheese!
A very active Saturday indeed! Lots of pictures and information. I still have to come back and read all of Doug's D&H article! Spent a good portion of the Saturday at Luke Air Force Base. Very interesting!
Doug – Very nice pictures of the Chicago Transit Authority’s cars and interesting information. A visit to IRM is long overdue, that is for sure. Things have changed since my last visit in 1984. Did CTA have a lot of different paint schemes on their cars? The extra long cord on that WEPCo L7 makes me wonder if any of the steeple-cabs I have pictures of might have the same feature? I have to check my pictures. Are all those street cars at IRM or were some of them there temporarily during the Trolley Pageant? I like that Class B loco and the Pullman built CSL 144! PCC #4391 looks different, not because of the extended length but the way the sides of it are covering the trucks! I bet that Domino delivery guy was satisfied with the extra money! That was a good one! Canadian winters are kind of cooold, so I understand that blonde grandma!More on D&H! I have to come back tomorrow to read all of it. Time is slipping away. Tom – Gas down to $2.29? Are you sure? Here it is up to $2.71 - $2.99 depending on the gas station. And it is still going up. The Air show last Saturday was very interesting and nice! Perfect weather and a lot of people!I am a very big fan of old Route 66. I have driven most of what is left of it in Arizona and will hopefully drive the last segment this summer.I probably eat a hamburger once every two months but I used to have them once every two weeks or so! I think the best thing at McDonald’s is their Hot Cakes! Thanks for the true story about AWK! Is he still around or did he escape to Dave? One of my favorite movies at the Mentor Village Emporium Theatre, The Third Man!! B&W and good music, Harry Lime Theme!Double Indemnity is new for me. Significant events in Canadian RR History! Always interesting to read about the Canadian RRs! As a matter of fact, I still have a letter from the Canadian Embassy in Stockholm in my briefcase. It is from the mid 80’s. Received your mail and responded to it. James – I agree, I am sure that layout will be a very nice one when it is done. Well, layouts are really never done but you know what I mean. Must be great to have room for that size of a layout! Thanks for second Northern Pacific article!! All the way from Duluth to the west coast! I have heard a lot about Bozeman Pass but never been there. Something to look up.I am afraid your guess was wrong, that picture is from southern Colorado. Pete – You are right, those cars in the picture are Wagon-Lits cars. They were used by a private railroad in Sweden for a few years but I believe they now have been returned. The interesting electric loco is actually a switcher, remote controlled. I once wrote the manual for it. Class Ue and Uf. See below.
Class Ue (rebuilt from Ub) in original paint scheme.
The picture I asked about is taken just north of New Mexico in southern Colorado along Interstate 25. I hope you can see the train. Thanks for the link with the photos of the Irish diesels! Built in the US but with a different look! Nice pictures, but where where was Janesville & Southeastern Ry? Wisconsin? Is it the same as Wisconsin & Southern Ry? Send a Thank You to Alan for his pictures! Is he traveling all the time? Are you from Coventry? I have actually been there once in the late 70’s.Lars – Tonight I am not hanging upside down! Got kind of tired of it. When it comes to fries I can recommend Cracker Barrel’s Steak Fries! Not bad at all. But I don’t like McDonald’s fries. Dave – Thanks for the info on those smoke hoods! I have to take a close look at the pictures I have of Big Boy #4014. And my books, oh I just remember I have a DVD with each and every Big Boy featured in it!
Be careful!!CM3 – Thanks for the EMD info! Mike – Interesting to read about Joshia Perham! He knew what he wanted and made sure he got it! Thanks and also thanks for the links. I like the picture of the train on the ice and the pictures of King Street Station!
Finally a picture from last Saturday!
60 years of service!
Mets beat Dodgers 6-5. Doesn't count of course. Pretty soon though.
I'm looking forward to the Rendezvous. Vicariously. You guys are going to like Doug. He has a wicked sense of humor.
John Gregory Smith, 2nd president of Northern Pacific, was the governor of Vermont during the Civil War and president of the Vermont Central Railroad. His son Edward Curtis Smith was governor of Vermont during the Spanish-American War and president of the Central Vermont Railway. (And my grandfather's boss.)
Excerpt from A Study In Human Effort by Edward Hungerford
In the Boston of the early 'fifties, there was an itinerant showman destined to play no small role in America's railroad development. From being the mere owner and operator of a panorama in Boston Town -- a sort of predecessor of the movie in popular favor -- Josiah Perham was eventually to become the first president of one of the outstanding railroad systems of the United States; even though he was never to ride in one of its trains or even to gaze upon its rails. For the very simple reason that before either came into being, Josiah Perham had ceased to live. But the dream that he had dreamed in the busy days of his life was to go forward, decade upon decade, after his death.
Perham's Panorama -- the "Seven-Mile Mirror," it was called -- stood in Washington Street, Boston, and as the gas globes at its entrance proclaimed, it showed, as it turned upon its rollers, the wonders and the beauties of the Great Lakes, Niagara Falls, the St. Lawrence and the Saguenay -- also gas-illuminated. For a mere twenty-five cents one could be transported, almost instantly, to Niagara's rim; could gaze on the glories of that wonder of the world and watch the picture slowly roll past while a top-hatted lecturer gave a clear exposition of it. It met with immediate success. People liked it and flocked to it, by the hundreds, into the thousands.
But the day came when Perham had about exhausted the possibilities of Boston and its immediate suburbs. Very well, he thought, we will reach further out for patronage. We will go down into Rhode Island and even Connecticut, west into Massachusetts, and north into Vermont and New Hampshire and Maine. The idea, created, obsessed him. I will go to the railroads, thought he, and get their cooperation. They will make low rates and bring many people to Boston -- and the "Seven-Mile Mirror."
Perham did not know the New England railroaders of that day. When he presented himself to them, agog with his great plan, they chilled him. Excursions and, especially, reduced rates did not interest them. They sold passenger transportation as the government sells postage-stamps, strictly at retail, at a fixed priced -- whether you bought one, a hundred or a thousand. No bargains. All this they told to Perham as they declined his proposition. But Josiah Perham was the sort of a man who would not take "no" for an answer. He presently found one of the roads giving way, the least little bit. Gradually others followed. The special rates went in, special trains began to run, people flocked into Boston as they had never done before -- over 200,000 came in the summer of 1850 -- and Perham's "Mirror" in Washington Street went into a fresh blaze of popularity. The excursion business in America had been born ... and Josiah Perham was to be known as the father of it all.
That experience gave Perham a real interest in railroads. For some years past he had been a student of the several plans for building a railroad from the Mississippi or the Missouri to the Pacific Coast. He went deeply into the entire matter. The whole idea obsessed him. He came to the point where he could talk of nothing else.
He had definite ideas of his own, this Perham. He had not liked the way that some of these early railroad enterprises were being financed -- big business was already beginning to show its hand in them. So when he finally launched his plan for the People's Pacific Railroad, it was with the distinct understanding that there should be no bond issues or other forms of money loans. He had a great idea: He would get one million men, each to put up one hundred dollars in cash for just one share of the stock of the new company. That would give him a working capital of $100,000,000. His original plan was not to permit any stockholder to own more than one share of stock, so no one man or group would control the road. He eventually softened on this phase of the plan.
To work out this scheme took time, and before Perham had his plan in any concrete form the entire nation had been plunged into its deadliest conflict -- the Civil War had begun its ravages. The entire Pacific railroad idea, which had been receiving increased attention everywhere in the late 'fifties, was, for the moment, forgotten. Perham besieged the halls of Congress for a charter -- with no effect. The state of Maine issued him one, but it was not effective enough. Moreover, Perham had become imbued with the idea that his railroad to the Pacific would have to have a land grant in addition to its working capital of $100,000,000. Only the United States government could do that for him.
In all this he was losing valuable time. Oakes and Oliver Ames and their Boston group were coming into the Pacific railroad situation and were preparing to take over the Union Pacific Railroad, already chartered (1862) to reach from Omaha to a meeting place with the new Central Pacific, which Leland Stanford and his three associates in California were preparing to build east from Sacramento as the Central Pacific Railroad. Perham faced this situation rather sadly. But undauntedly. After all, this Union Pacific-Central Pacific route was but one transcontinental railroad in all the great girth of the United States. The War Department had already made surveys for other routes -- to the north and to the south of the central one. Perham chose the northerly one. He went back to Congress, lobbied steadily, and in 1864 he received for himself the charter for the new Northern Pacific Railroad.
It was a magnificent charter. With it went a kingly gift -- 47,000,000 acres of the public land -- a greater area than Holland and Belgium combined; an area equal to a good half of all New England. As the new railroad should progress westward from its announced terminal at Duluth, at the head of the navigable Great Lakes, and be completed in hundred-mile sections, land on either side of its right-of-way would be turned over to it -- to do with as it pleased.
Perham, dazed with what he accomplished, hurried back to Boston, organized his Northern Pacific company and proceeded to sell its stock very much along the lines that he laid down for his original Pacific railroad company. He opened offices in Boston, New York, Philadelphia and elsewhere. But the public rush to obtain shares in the new company -- despite its great potential assets -- did not come to pass. Perham found it impossible to sell his one million shares at one hundred dollars each. The Civil War was doing things to America, financially. He became thoroughly discouraged.
At this time there came into the picture of the newly born road a group of men who were to see it become -- with its rich assets -- an American railroad of real importance. There were the men who had been making big money in the express companies. Alvin Adams and William G. Fargo; Benjamin P. Cheney, the northern New York Barneys -- now successful wall Street bankers -- William P. Ogden, who had so successfully brought the Chicago and North Western into being, Robert Berdell of the Erie and J. Edgar Thompson of the Pennsylvania and ... John Gregory Smith, president of the Vermont Central Railroad.
They relieved Perham of his railroad burden. The man, in his struggles, had aged greatly and faced an approaching physical breakdown. Moreover, he had accumulated large debts in connection with his lobbying work at Washington and he was the sort of thrifty New Englander who abominates the very idea of debt. Very well, Perham, said this new group, we will pay off every last dollar of your debts -- and relieve you of your charter. This he did and turned over and died a poor man; but secure in the knowledge that he might enter Heaven without a feeling that the sheriff might ever follow him there.
Gregory Smith, they must have said, in effect, you take over this Northern Pacific thing yourself. You are a man who has been thinking in large terms and you are the man who can carry this entire enterprise through to a successful culmination. And so they elected him as president -- the second -- of the Northern Pacific company.
Gregory Smith had been attracting attention with the success of his Vermont Central Railroad. Expanding it to the north and south had placed him in the class of real railroad builders. And he had not hesitated to tell of his ambitions to thrust his road through to the West. Ogdensburgh, New York, at the foot of navigation of the Great Lakes and reached by his affiliate, the Northern Railroad of New York, was not nearly far enough west.
With the Northern Pacific in his control, Vermont Central trains might yet be running to the dock on the edge of Puget Sound or at the mouth of the Columbia. The gap between St. Albans and Duluth, he dismissed. After all, he must have argued, you can take any globe in any schoolroom and on it trace the great circles, those curved arcs that by following the rounded surface of the earth, achieve the savings of many miles of distance. A railroad following a great circle from Vermont to Minnesota, whether it went to the north or the south of Lake Superior, would be far from an impossibility. It offered no great difficulties of construction. No mountain ranges to be crossed and possibly a terrain of large agricultural and mineral possibilities to be tapped. And then, the Northern Pacific -- plunging itself into one of the richest farm and timber and mineral countries in all the world.
For six years, Gregory Smith remained president of the Northern Pacific and then he retired, without even having tried to organize the connecting link between that property and his own. Too many other problems occupied him. There had been some criticism by a few of the Northern Pacific directors that Smith was more interested in the Vermont Central than in Northern Pacific, which was probably true, but that was not the real reason!
A new force, also a dominant one, had come into the Northern Pacific. This force was one Jay Cooke of Philadelphia, at the moment probably America's foremost banker, and it was Cooke who had been chosen to float the finances for the new Northern Pacific enterprise. He took hold of the job with avidity. He had just met with a splendid measure of success in the floatation of United States bonds for financing the War. Therefore, it was argued, he was the ideal man to take hold of the financing of this great new transcontinental railroad -- the largest to be launched in the country, as yet. For some reason, Cooke had hit upon the figure of two cents a day interest for each hundred dollars loaned the federal government and because of this his bonds quickly became known as the "seven-thirties," and as such, achieved an enormous popularity. The first Northern Pacific's were also "seven-thirties."
J. Gregory Smith watched these preparations, with ill ease. His banking connections and his New England conservatism did not approve of these high interest rates. In the long run, he was proved to be right. Cooke and his once-powerful banking houses were caught in the Black Friday panic of 1873 and came to a crashing failure. Northern Pacific went down with him. And it was several years before construction could be resumed upon the struggling road. By which time Jay Cooke was entirely out of the picture.
The specific point on which Smith and Cooke broke, was on the St. Paul, Minneapolis and Manitoba Railroad, a parent of the present Great Northern system. The bonds of this road were owned by bankers in Amsterdam, Holland. The road came early into financial difficulties and the Northern Pacific, through Gregory Smith, was offered these bonds -- which carried with them control of the St. Paul, Minneapolis and Manitoba -- that Smith went to Cooke, explaining to him the vital rights of control of the road, already partly built out of St. Paul. Smith argued that, by purchasing the bonds at a nominal price from the Dutch bankers, the Northern Pacific would forever prevent the building of any other road between it and the Canadian border. Cooke could not see this proposition or its benefits to Northern Pacific, and then it was that J. Gregory Smith retired forever from the western rail picture. James J. Hill, former harbor-master of St. Paul, picked up the bonds and with them began the construction of still another transcontinental which, from the beginning, prospered -- became the Great Northern Railway -- and eventually bought and controlled Northern Pacific.
Gov. Smith locomotive
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=1605072807&id=53
Northern Pacific exploring party
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/transportation&CISOPTR=286
Northern Pacific construction
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/transportation&CISOPTR=258
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/transportation&CISOPTR=256
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/transportation&CISOPTR=255
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/transportation&CISOPTR=257
Missouri River ice
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/transportation&CISOPTR=223
Ferry
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/transportation&CISOPTR=219
Chinese workers
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/social&CISOPTR=386
Completion 1883
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/transportation&CISOPTR=372
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/transportation&CISOPTR=189
Minnetonka
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/transportation&CISOPTR=264
Seattle stations
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/imlsmohai&CISOPTR=2712
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/seattle&CISOPTR=455
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/imlsmohai&CISOPTR=2849
NP pics
http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr5_145_np_mainstreeter_king_street_station_seattle_1967.jpg
http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr5_137_np_north_coast_ltd_minneapolis_1969.jpg
http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr5_147_np_northtown_engine_terminal_1957.jpg
http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr5_146_np_emd_f-units_freight_philbrook_mn_1957.jpg
http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr5_141_np_old_&_new_freight_diesels.jpg
Duluth
http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvn-jpgs/RVN16585.jpg
http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvn-jpgs/RVN13370.jpg
http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvn-jpgs/RVN12556.jpg
http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvn-jpgs/RVN13140.jpg
Leon- Could I get a coffee and a turkey sandwich please. Thanks.
Good to see things still rolling round the bar. Good to see all the pictures.
I am going to be working on page 37 for acknowledgements at the moment but I will get back to the other pages as well. Don't worry.
Doug- Nice little article on the early Delaware and Hudson. Those early steam engines and cars must have been quite a revolutionary marvel. To be able to move without horse drawn carriages was probably a nice addition. Thanks. Also liked all the pictures of the wood transit cars. Some pretty nicely restored tram cars. Thanks for sharing. I glad to see some more IRM pictures of the trams. Nice looking and very well restored trams. Glad to see them still being displayed. Ah, and a good picture of 118C. The Milwaukee road F-unit. Also thanks for the second piece of the Delaware and Hudson. Another nice article.
Eric- Nice pictures of the ICE train interior. Also glad to see some more trains in the Arizona desert. That land is very flat. Also to your, Guess what state this picture was taken in. I would say Arizona.
Pete- Unfortunately time goes too fast when your having fun. Especially when it only comes once per year. But what matters is that it was fun and everyone had a good time. And yes I did pick up a couple of models. I am building that passenger train and I found a couple passenger cars that are on that train, so it was perfect. Also, thanks for all the pictures. I really liked the picture with the little 20 toner center cab and the F-units. The Class 5 4-6-0 is a really nice contribution. Thanks for sharing.
Lars- Glad you liked the model pictures. Fred is one of those people who knows how to build a complex railroad. And when he is complete it will probably be the most complex layout I will have ever seen. It will be cool.
West coast Dave- Good to see you com back. Hope things are okay for you in your parts. Stay safe.
Tom- First off . Hope you had a good one.
I thought you might like Fred's layout. He definitely likes passenger trains, and that's all he has. It's pretty cool. You would have to see the layout to really get an idea of what it is like. The locomotives each have two DCC chips. One for lights ( Mars, ditch lights, markers, osculating red light, beacons and so on.) And the other for the movement of the locomotive. It's a WOW!
Thanks for the "significant events" piece. There was some interesting Canadian RR historical events. Thanks.
CM3- Here's the thing with Fred. The picture with the train on the far track, the 9th cars last truck sits on the frog of a switch. In a picture of the real thing, (You can count the cars) The 9th cars last truck sits on the frog of that switch. It's unbelievable. He has the station on the floor. It's still under construction but it's definitely cool. So the layout is almost the exact same size as the real railroad. An aerial photo of the Roosevelt street yard shows the exact layout of the railroad. The model layout is almost exact to the aerial photo.
A pint of Holden's Bitter on this rather muggy day with T-storms forcast for later here please RUTH..
Enjoyed the Photo Day.Interesting comments on the Janesville & Southestern #106 in my pic.I have looked a the photo a few times and it is only just now that I noticed that the locomotive as two lifting lugs on the front of the loco. I can't recall seeing these on any pics of the F series before,perhaps these were fitted when it was in service with the U.S. Army as Doug said. I wonder how many F units the Army had on its books.
DOUG Many thanks for the latest installment on the D&H.Interesting reading about the gravity railroading, I wonder how the cars were braked.It would be good to see a photo of the 'Shepherds Crook'.
Looking forward to the train show pics
Loved the pub sign .
DAVE Great to see you in the bar again.Thanks for the info on the SP locos. I can recall seeing a video of a simular smoke splitting device on a European steam locomotive although it purpose to keep the smoke etc off the overhead electrification wires.
After reading your second post please take care out there.
JAMES Many thanks for the #2 on the Northern Pacific, enjoyed reading about the expansion of the railroad and the part played by Henry Villard.
LARS Glad you liked the pics, thanks. I think Tom has got me sussed as to my inability to pass up on a free pint, so I will get prepared to get ready to give BORIS's shed its Spring clean, I know the drill, I shall be alright as long as I don't touch the 'magazines' NICK gave him..
A job as a part-time assistant to Inspector Clueless, thats a thought.
CM3 Thanks for the comment on the pics. Am I right in thinking the 567 engine was developed from producing 1,000 HP in the E3 to producing 2,500HP in the SDP 35. It shows how the diesel engine was improved over a relitivly short period of time
TOM That E-7 model on the S-Capades does indeed look to be in the same color scheme as #106.
Was it as long ago as page 136 at the old bar that we first heard the joke with AWK and Spike, it seems like yesterday. A little aside to the car Dave saw with the AWK registration plate. In the UK until fairly recently the county or large city where the car was registered was reconised by the last 2 letters of the plate, usually there was 3 letters and 3 numbers on a plate. Well the letters WK sounded familular so I looked them up on Wikipedia and it says it was issued in Coventry, although Coventry did issue plates for vehicles in the city bounderies and had letters like KV, I have a feeling WK was issued by my home county of Warwickshire( which Coventry was in before the Metropolitan counties were introduced). I have been looking for another source of info into this but no luck so far, but it does tie in with what you were saying the other day about trusting things on the web.
As CM3 says two really good films on at the Emporium this week.The Third Man really is a classic right down to the zither playing the theme music. Double Indemnity was on TV recently but it will be good to see it on the big screen in the comfort of the Emporium.
Many thanks for the Canadian RR History for March it seems a though March was a bad month for accidents on the Canadian Railroads though.I see the last CP steam locomotive was produced 11 years to the month before the last steam loco for British Railways was turned out.The 1950s was a decade when the diesel locos really came into their own..
I often wonder what would of became of those Chuggers if they had not been sold to Canada
I see Doug has callen in so a pint and a round please LEON..
Pete
Good afternoon Tom and gang. I'll have the usual bottomless draught an buy a round for the early-birds, and thanks for the encore on March CN material. Always a good read to see he things that happened over time. Impressive info from CM3 today. Can't vouch or not vouch for the accuracy of my sources. I just type 'em the way I see 'em. I know what you mean about how may times various cars are changed into other entities. I've got a great article from the 1991 January/February Electroliners magazine with an article on "Piedmont Powerhouses" that illustrates the point very well. I still have to finish my H&D article before I do that though. The pages in that particular magazine are literally falling apart as I go, so I want all the "goodies" typed before they are forever lost. I need to get going here, but here's a groaner to test the springs on the groan-o-meter.
Two hunters are out in the woods when one of them collapses. He doesn't seem to be breathing and his eyes are glazed. The other guy takes out his phone and calls the emergency services.He gasps: "My friend is dead! What can I do?" The operator says: "Calm down, I can help. First, let's make sure he's dead." There is a silence, then a gunshot is heard. Back on the phone, the guy says: "OK, now what?"
Significant events in Canadian RR History
during the month of March
Initially Posted on Page 271 of the original Thread
* March 1836: The oldest Canadian Pacific component, the St. Andrews & Quebec Railroad Company was authorized by the New Brunswick legislature to construct a rail line from St. Andrews to lower Canada. Operations began in the spring of 1851, fifteen years later. * 19 March 1855: The Niagra Gorge vehicle suspension bridge is re-engineered for the use of railroad trains. The structure was built in 1848 with its wooden trusses replaced by steel in 1880. * 12 March 1857: Fifty nine lose their lives when a Great Western Railway train plunges into the Desjardins Canal near Hamilton. A broken axle was determined to the cause of the accident. * 20 March 1896: Central Vermont Railway becomes part of the Grand Trunk Railway. CV corporate identity remains unchanged. * 1 March 1898: The Intercolonial Railway begins through rail service between Montreal and Halifax. Grand Trunk Railway lease and trackage rights are instrumental in enabling the service to commence. * 17 March 1909: An out of control train slams into the stop blocks at CPs Montreal's Windsor Street Station. Six fatalities resulted. The cause was determined to be a broken spring hanger on loco #2102 which caused a lurch and a driving wheel to strike a washout plug. Scalded crew escaped the locomotive. Impact was estimated to be 25 mph thanks to the setting of the train brake by a brakeman. * 1 March 1916: Fire destroys Montreal's Grand Trunk Railway Bonaventure Station. * 7 March 1919: An appointment of the Minister of Railways to be receiver for the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway. * 8 March 1920: , March 8 - The Canadian Natinal Railways Board of Directors assumes management of the Grand Trunk Pacific. * March 1949: Montreal Locomotive Works rolls out Canadian Pacific's its last new steam locomotive Class T-l-c 2-10-4 #5935. * 15 March 1951: The House of Commons tables the Turgeon Commission's report on behalf of the The Royal Commission on Transportation. * 30 March 1954: Canada's first subway is opened in Toronto by the Toronto Transit Commission. * March 1961: The MacPherson Commission, on behalf of the Royal Commission on Transportation, publishes its report. The National Transportation Act of 1967 is largely based on their recommendations. * 17 March 1974: Two CP Rail crew members are killed when a freight train derails at Spences Bridge, BC. A rock slide was the cause. The installation of ditch lights on board Canadian trains resulted. * 13 March 1978: The first bi-level coaches are introduced by Toronto's GO. * 22 March 1985: The Scarborough Rapid Transit Line is opened by the Toronto Transit Commission using linear induction technology. * 6 March 1990: Vancouver's Skytrain commences operation on the Expo Line between Columbia & Scott Road. * 28 March 1994: Vancouver's Skytrain commences operation on the Expo Line between Scott Road & King George. * 22 March 1999: Operation is assumed by RaiLink Ltd. of CNs Coronado, Bonnyville, & Lac La Biche subdivisions, NE of Edmonton. The line runs from St. Paul Junction, immediately N of Edmonton, to Boyle and NE to Grande Centre and Elk Point. It also joins with RaiLink's existing Lakeland & Waterways track at Boyle. Information contained in this compilation was obtained from internet public domain sources and materials from my private RR library collection. The use of this information is strictly for pleasure without intent of monetary reward or profit of any kind. Enjoy! Tom Did you miss the previous two "Significant events in Canadian RR History" Click the URL: (1) January, page 6: http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/6/1075898/ShowPost.aspx#1075898
(2) February, page 21: http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/21/1075898/ShowPost.aspx#1075898waving flags credit to:www.3DFlags.com
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. Nice weather today with temps. headed for the 70s. Pls. excuse my absence Friday, but work calls now and then; at least we had fun outside playing in the mud.
Lots to cover so we'll get started.
Pete stopped by - I'm glad the linked worked o.k. for you. The stuff Boris puts in so-called hamburgers was recalled right after the Crimean War. Many thanks for the pictures as well.
Barndad - Man the pumps, again?! The D&H material continues and is greatly appreciated. Also, many thanks for the pictures - the steeple cab was a fine looking beastie. The Illinois Terminal power was a good one as well - intriguing to see that they built their own power. The PCC picture had an interesting remark in that it was the "only survivor." IIRC, the MBTA is still running them on their Mattapan Line. I am unsure about the blt. date on them, however. The research department will check into this. The PCCs had so many incarnations and reincarnations that it's hard to tell.
James returns with lots of NP stuff and pictures - the yard trackage on the layout looks to be a good design and the track around Union Station is quite recognizable. When you ride 51 to Chicago, you never know if you are going to head in or go around the wye and back in. I was racking what's left of my brain to remember the name of the tower that usta be outside Union Station. Then I remembered - Union Avenue (what a concept!)
Dave was here - good to hear from you and be careful!
OSP provided some more Rock Island coverage including a shot of an RI E8 in the "as delivered" paint. Then we had an E3 picture. B4 I forget, were you able to find a copy of the magazine with the Canadian materal?
Following is for the "oil-electric" folks in the groups and others (like me) who like to "get under the hood."
E3s were "pre war" units, built between 1939 and 1940. EMD offered them in an E3a and an E3b version. If memory serves, they represented one of the earliest applications of a 567 engine. Each unit had a pair of 567s under the hood; 200 horsepower per unit. This mechanical setup remained through 1949 when the last E7s were built with what was listed as a 567A engine. The E8s had 2250 horsepower and were powered by 567B engines while the E9s had 2400 horsepower provided by a pair of 567C engines. The SDP35 was the last EMD passenger locomotive to use the 567 engine; this was a 567D3A which produced 2500 horsepower; thus endeth the 567 lesson for today. I know, Tex, all of the F units used the 567 along with many of the early geeps and SDs, but that's for another day.
Ask OSP and it shall be granted. "Third Man" and "Double Indemnity." Wow! I've already set up my camp chair in front of the Theatuh to be first in line. Double Indemnity shows Fred McMurray long before TV - you won't think it's the same guy - he's a real mean customer.
A smile to begin the week!
I usually take a two-hour nap from 1 to 4.
(A Yogi-ism!)
‘tis Monday once again and the work week (for many) is about to begin. Make time for a <light> or <traditional> breakfast, perhaps a few pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and of course a mug of freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee.
Hope the weekend was enjoyable for all and you were able to kick back and take life on a slow bell. I managed to get some home chores squared away and a few others for the "blessed' subdivision, so life is good.
Spring break ‘round here for my bride, so it's a bit of a late Reveille in this Haus!
Noted something that requires an Editorial Comment from the Proprietor:
Hit ‘n Run Posts are NOT appreciated - never were and still aren't. So, let's be sure to either participate along the lines of the outline on Page One of this Thread, or don't Post ‘til ready to do so. If one has the time to log in and put forth a Post, one surely can at least check the Page they're on to see what's happening. This Thread isn't at all like the others - isn't that the attraction??? Anyone who has heartburn with this can ship me an Email - let's keep it out of the bar. Thanx!
Changes are a-comin' for "my other Thread" and the bar:
I'm phasing out "my other Thread" as there simply is nothing happening there except for the guys from here using it. I'd rather see those Posts applied to the bar. So, rather than abruptly terminate it, I'll just let it "slide" responding only as the situation warrants.
April 12th is rapidly approaching and my "promise" to keep things going ‘til our 2nd Year Anniversary will be kept. After that, well . . . . totally depends on the guys who give a Rat's Patoot. With a handful of guys remaining who really support the bar 'n the way we operate it along with spring 'n summer planned absences, I surely don't want to be talking to myself! Change is inevitable . . . .
James at 11:45 PM Saturday ‘ Doug at 4:32 AM today with submissions on the Northern Pacific ‘n Delaware & Hudson, respectively.
Reminder: Ruth has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til closing.
Boris, serve ‘em all of the "spiked" OJ they can handle!
Gppd morning Tom and gang. I'll have a light breakfast please. I see James is keeping his NP "stuff" going. I found time to attend a local train show, and got many pix and material for future stuff from me, but for now, here's more D&H from me:
Freight on the Enslaver & Saratoga, circa 1868. Note Hudson River Railroad lettering on second car behind tender.
But with more and more business as a common carrier being offered by other coal companies, it was necessary to begin a real enlargement and extension of the line. As originally built, the railroad serving the local coal fields from the canal end had a capacity for transit business of 100,000 tons a year. To meet the increase of business, the planes were relaid, divided where necessary, and double tracking installed. In 1847 the first gravity railroading began in ernest. For a length of about ten miles out of Honesdale, a descent track with a grade of forty-four feet to the mile was installed, so that loaded cars traveled the last part of their journey by gravity pull alone. Simultaneously, gravity operations was extended to other sections of the line. Steam and water-power stationary engines hauled the cars up the line.
The profitable fifties were not quiet years. The town of Honesdale was nearly destroyed by fire, which burned the gravity railroad at several points. On the canal the packet boat Fashion and the line boat Daniel Webster were burned. To offset these disasters, the commonwealth of Pennsylvania, which had the right to repossess itself of the franchises for canal privileges on the Lackawaxen river, granted these rights in perpetuity.
More double tracking of the railroad was completed in 1858. Heavy T-rail replaced the old strap rail; wire was substituted for manila rope on the planes, and the railroad was extended six miles down the Lackawanna valley to tap more rich coal lands owned by the company.
In 1860 regular passenger transportation began over the gravity railroad in the Lackawanna valley. The trains consisted of two small cars, each having a single seat extending along the two sides.
At this period plans for a giant transportation system began to dictate the managers' actions. A link from Albany to Binghamton, eventually completed in 1869, was blue-printed and work was begun on the right-of-way. The present connection with the B&M at Eagle Bridge was built, making it possible to go from New York to Montreal, using D&H facilities north of the Pittsburgh & Montreal. Important as these links seemed in 1869, they are even more valuable today.
According to company reports, the period following the Civil War was "one of unusual and gratifying activity, and the mining operations in the Lackawanna valley were almost continuously active." The railroad poked spurs into several small areas of additional coal deposits, at the same time offering general service to residents of these isolated valleys. One of the new extensions reached Green Ridge, a little over a mile from Scranton, Pa. By the close of 1864, these coal trains and one regular passenger were transporting over five thousand people every month. At the northern end of D&H territory, business increased as the citizens of Troy recovered from the disastrous fire of 1862,when locomotive sparks set fire to the roof of the old Rensselaer & Saratoga bridge across the Hudson. The flames destroyed 507 buildings over an area of seventy-five acres. Among the buildings burned to the ground was the new Union depot in Troy.
Albany & Susquehanna station at Cobleskill, N.Y., was authorized in April, 1900. Trackage is now D&H
Two years later, the company definitely committed itself to its future role as a coal railroad, carrying its product to all the markets and engaging at the same time in real transportation service. In line with its policy, new properties were bought, among them the Union Coal Company which furnished fifteen miles of additional railroad in the direction of Wilkes-Barre.
More improvements were now made on the gravity railroad. Return track for empties was laid at Carbondale, including the Shepherd's Crook, a thousand foot loop returning within eighty-two feet of its starting point, but at a level thirty-seven feet lower. With the inauguration of through passenger service between Honesdale and Carbondale, the line attained considerable prominence for its novel and scenic attractions.
An outlet to the west via the Erie was obtained through contract with the Albany and Susquehanna, a road planned and partially built as a six-foot gage. A third rail to accommodate standard gage cars was laid over 120 miles of track from Albany to Nineyah, N.Y.
Robert S. Hone, coal hauler named for early official, founder of Honesdale
It was time now for the managers to look north ward toward the Canada Railway Company, formed in 1872, was essentially a Delaware and Hudson enterprise. Its purpose was to provide a through line up the west side of Lake Champlain, utilizing any track age then in service there. The line curled through red rock cuts along the Lake, crossing marsh areas on trestles and fills made of old canal boats, trees and dump of rock and earth. A long tunnel bisected Bouquet Range and dynamite tore a roadbed through the foothills which reach down to the Lake. Today, this trip along a part of the Champlain Division is picturesque, with mountains and water poured together and the railroad a thin ribbon between.
Hand-operated plow and snow-sweeper which once cleared the Gravity. Railroad..movement was down-hill
When the route to Montreal over the New York & Canada was opened in 1875, the directors spread themselves with banquets, celebrations and speeches. One train consisted of seven Wagner palace cars, a hotel car, a director's car, and, at the rear, an open Baldwin coach. This special train, drawn by the first=-class coal-burning engine Saratoga, reached Rouses Point November 17th. There a Grand Trunk engine coupled on and the train, decorated with American flags and the Union Jack, sped past narrow farms less than fifty rods wide but extending almost endlessly in depth, and entered Quebec. At two-centuries-old St. Johns, the Mayor and the Board of Trade welcomed the first train on the new railroad. Then, on to Montreal, for a day of feasting and celebration.
To reach the Canadian line that led to Montreal, it had been necessary to use twelve miles of Ogdensburg & Lake Champlain iron. To do away with this detour and to shorten the route, the present track age to Rouses Point, which departs from the earlier line at Canada Junction, one mile north of West Chazy, and runs northward to Rouses Point, was opened in 1876.
View of the Saranc & Lake Placid's Number 1, taken in 1893, the year the road was completed. Chateaugay Railroad operated the line until 1903, when D&H took over.
At this period, the Delaware & Hudson had obtained road after road through purchase, lease or similar agreement. Much public criticism was directed against these practices, but it is plain that the D&H was able to acquire its holdings over good and bad years because it had the solid, dependable revenue of its mines. It is also true that the company improved every road it controlled. But by 1881 main and branch lines extended from Canada to Albany and southwest to Pennsylvania coal fields, and further large-scale expansion was halted. In its place, a steady improvement in the physical aspects of railroading on the D&H was begun at this time.
Leon- A coffee for now, thanks.
I made a mistake in one of the pictures, The picture with me in it. I am actually to the left in the blue short sleeved shirt. I just noticed it. Sorry for the mistake.
Anyway. I know this is going to be a quick visit, but I was at a guy's layout session tonight and hadn't realized what time it was. I finally got home at about 11:00 pm. Way to late for what I was expecting. Oh well.
But I will be dropping off my second article on the NP.
The Northern Pacific #2
Northern Pacific map, circa 1900.
Ferdinand Heinrich Gustav Hilgard had been born in Bavaria in 1835, emigrating to America in 1853, at the ripe old age of 18. Settling in Illinois, the well-educated Hilgard became a journalist and editor, covering the Lincoln-Douglas debates, then the American Civil War for the larger New York papers, changing his name to Henry Villard along the way. He went back to his native Germany in 1871, where he came in contact with European financial interests speculating in American railroads. When he returned to the United States after the Panic of 1873, he was the representative of these concerns. In the few short years prior to 1880, Villard intervened on the behalf of these interests in several transportation systems in Oregon. Through Villard's work, most of these lines wound up in the hands of the European creditors' holding company, the Oregon and Transcontinental. Of the lines held by the Oregon and Transcontinental, the most important was the Oregon Railway and Navigation Company, a line running east from Portland along the south bank of the Columbia River to a connection with the Union Pacific Railroad's Oregon Short Line at the confluence of the Columbia River and the Snake River near Wallula, Washington. Within a decade of his return, Henry Villard became the head of a transportation empire in the Pacific Northwest that had but one real competitor, the ever-expanding Northern Pacific. Northern Pacific's completion threatened the holdings of Villard in the Northwest, and especially in Portland. Portland would become a second-class city if the Puget Sound ports at Tacoma and Seattle, Washington were connected to the East by rail. Villard, who had been building a monopoly of river and rail transportation in Oregon for several years, now launched a daring raid. Using his European connections and a reputation for having "bested" Jay Gould in a battle for control of the Kansas Pacific years before, Villard solicited - and raised - $8 million from his associates. This was his famous "Blind Pool," Villard's associates were not told what the money would be used for. In this case, the funds were used to purchase control of the Northern Pacific. Despite a tough fight, Billings and his backers were forced to capitulate; he resigned the presidency June 9. Ashabel H. Barney was brought in as an interim caretaker of the railroad from June 19 to September 15, when Villard was finally elected president by the stockholders. For the next two years, Villard and the Northern Pacific rode the whirlwind.
In 1882, 360 miles (580 km) of main line and 368 miles (592 km) of branch line were completed, bringing totals to 1,347 miles (2,168 km) and 731 miles (1,176 km), respectively. On October 10, 1882, the line from Wadena, Minnesota, to Fergus Falls, Minnesota, opened for service. The Missouri River was bridged with a million-dollar span on October 21, 1882. The Missouri had been handled by a ferry service most of the year. During winters, when ice was thick enough, the rails were laid across the river itself. General Herman Haupt another veteran of the Civil War and the Pennsylvania Railroad, set up the Northern Pacific Beneficial Association on August 19. A forerunner of the modern
Tom ...Great side splitter as to AWK's adventures, Seeing the Awkmobile indeed brought a grin and thoughts of home, over here, flaunting ones position in such a manner targets you for abduction or IED bait..must have been one of the bad guys...I've had my close call when our convoy was targeted by a failed suicide car bomber that forced us off the road while taking evasive action and into a ditch, no serious injuries,minor scratches about it, no hostile cross fire or ambush, we all walked away, same can't be said of the vehicle which, within the hour was stripped clean by looters. Enough depressing tales, thinking of my return keeps me on the level.
Keep the bar humming, I promise to return to "Our Place" with all body parts intact and accounted for.
Dave, ok Boris, set um up, hold the physical contact..
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