Hi Tom and all.
Back again on our 2nd annivesary. so I will have the Holden's Special please LEON please
NAMED LOCOMOTIVE OF THE BRITISH BIG FOUR RAILWAY COMPANIES.(Part 2)
SOUTHERN RAILWAY (SR).
The SR was a bit more imaginative with their naming policy. The N15 class were named after characters from the King Arthur legends, the SR served lines in Cornwall where much of King Arthur's deeds are said to have taken place.
Another class Lord Nelson was another great choice as the SR served Portsmouth and Plymouth to have famous British seafarers for this class of 16.
The Southern built a class of Britain's most powerful 4-4-0s as late as 1930 the locos were named after famous English Public Schools. There were 40 locos in the class.
Another link to the sea were O.V.S. Bullied's 1941 Merchant Navy class of 30 pacifics. These were named after shipping lines that served the ports connected to the SR, like Southampton. These were probably the most handsome nameplates, with the Shipping lines flag in the center of the nameplate. The nameplates were left and right handed so that the flag always appeared to be flying towards the rear of the locomotive. With a weight of 94 ¾ tons the MNs were too heavy for some routes and the West Country/ Battle of Britain class were introduced in 1945, with a weight of 86 tons. These 110 locos were basically the same with the West Countries named after towns in the West serving that area and the Battle of Britain serving the SR lines in Kent.
These locos were named after Squadrons, Air Fields, Aircraft and people involved in the battle of Britain. Often the West Countries had the crest of the town and the BBs the squadron badge above the nameplate to make another handsome plate.
A photo of a Battle of Britain nameplate with crest.
Pete.
I believe the next beer on the mats is a Holden's. I had better have the bitter this time please Ruth and of course a round for the house. Don't forget Gents the empty kegs are a lot easier to move when I do the chandelling later.
Before I get on to the Anniversary posts I must mention those links to Buffalo Central and those great ‘March of Time videos from MIKE, last evening.
A great start to the anniversary from ERIC. Great story of how you had to lose those 6 minutes to get the X2000 exactly on time.
Many thanks for sharing the photos of the inside story of the X2000. I noticed how LUNCH was in big letters on the board; it reminded me of some of the courses I have been on.
DOUG. Great posts. I see there was two on the Pennsy and RDCs for Tom and three on the NYC with great pics in them as well. What a sight the GG1 must have looked when she was brought out the paint shop. Wonderful photo of 4877 in her finery a lot different to the condition of the GG1s in the videos in Mike's links. Wonderful descriptions and photos of the NYC steam locomotives in the Rails northwest.
Thanks for the jokes and toasts. Great photo of you three outside Our Place.
CM3 Many thanks for that marvelously evocative post on the Boston & Albany. The description of the Mohawk passing Newtonville was indeed something a steam fan would never forget, Glorious indeed.
Wonderful description of the journey from New Haven to New York's Grand Central.
BK I have to say that your post was one of the finest I have read about Our Place. It is my feelings for the bar, exactly but I could not put into words
I have, for some reason, always loved railways but knew very little of them in North America, but mainly through Our Place I have come to appreciate and respect the great railroads, trains and locos there was over here.
ROB As you say H&H are working real hard in the kitchen today they have prepared a great spread but they have promised to let me have my traditional Thursdays Fish ‘N' Chips tomorrow.
Great story of Heather's Dad waiting so he could ride in the TR car sounds like the thing I would do.
Thanks for the Port Maitland Ad & Schedule.
DL Great to see you in. Real shame about the ‘new' Kimberley. Why they keep the name when it is not the same beer is beyond me, surely they know that the drinkers can tell the difference.
I would love to hear your friend's tales of the Grimsby fish trains. They did pong a bit but at least they were fast moving. The worst for me I think were the cattle trains.
Those Hungarian locos have a very North American look about them to me.
Many thanks for the links to those great posters, and the details of your trip to East Anglia, it is sad but from your description travel on the GNER is going down hill.
I will read those reports on the train ferry question a bit later if I may.
LARS I'm working real hard today with the amount of toasts and the beer sales the tub will be overflowing again.
Three days on the NYC surely a record. Many thanks for the NYC steam and diesel pics and the great toast you proposed.
Tom has seen the way I type, it makes even BORIS look skilled at typing.
DAVE Great you could make it in, it would not have been the same to have the 2nd anniversary without our West Coast friend.
It will be good to read of the SP again, and perhaps something on the Pacific Electric.
I had not realized that there still was some rail traffic where you are, although it is good news that they leave the passenger trains alone.
Keep Safe.
TOM What a wonderful anniversary it is the bar is really buzzing. Many thanks for the great graphics in your posts and really good to see the pic of our No1 mascot Juneau
Those penguins still make me laugh I can look at the clip over and over again
Very soon now will have had 10,0
Hello again Tom and folks. Another bottomless draught if you please, and another round for the house! Here's a little something for the coal scuttle, and yes .. they are from Michigan!
I knew that Dave would not let this day go by without checking in, and since there's been some activity here, it's time for part III of my series!
Concepts of Water Level Steam by Bert Pennypacker
New York Central 2377 (ex-277), class H10b, built by Lima in 1924, photographed doubling an eastbound perishable at Chicago, Ill. In June 1947 by Harld K. Vollrath
High stepping little Atlantics, Ten-Wheelers and Praries were the glamour girls of the limiteds way back in 1904-05 when the need for larger power became apparent and the first Pacifics began making their appearances along the NYC's various component lines. The K80 classification clearly indicated a beginning design and after 70 of them were built by Alco and Montreal, the 22X26-inch cylinders and 75-inch drivers were re-engineered to 22X28 and 79 in order to create the K2 which was then built to a quantity of 192 engines between 1907-10. But Central man were still not entirely satisfied with the K2's output and in 1911, a further cylinder revision to 23 1/2X26 inches was made in the plans to create the capable K3 which was built to the amazing total of 281 engines over the years until 1925.
It seems almost unbelievable that the 473 small hand fired K2/K3 Pacifics were the principle passenger power for well over two decades until Hudsons began to arrive en masse. The two class had similar boilers of 70 5/8 inches diameter with 56.5 square feet of grate area. And 200 pounds steam pressure, thus the difference in cylinder dimensions amounted to playing with steam to achieve more drawbar horsepower. Therefore, the K2 posted 1655 DBHP at 40 m.p.h. while the slightly improved K3 produced 1750 DBHP at the same speed. Tractive forces in the 30,000 pounds range were no higher than those being achieved with the larger Atlantics of those days, but Central was more interested in adequate steaming capacities at speed and this meant as many as ten cars behind the drawbar of a K3 on a 20 or 22-hour schedule between New York and Chicago.
During these times of post-World War I era when many roads were installing heavy Pacifics and passenger Mountain types to pull their best limiteds, the longevity of NYC's light K3's as the backbone of its heaviest long distance service seemed like an astounding achievement, but Central had an ace up its sleeve. While it is true that the K3's were struggling, particularly when starting or moving out with long trains of all-steel Pullmans, the resourcefully conservative road wasn't about to invest in new and larger engines if it could find another way out and for its ingenuity, we credit the NYC with the invention of the booster engine.
It happened in 1919 when Howard L. Ingersoll, Assistant to the President Mechanical, designed a small, two-cylinder steam engine that could be installed in the trailing truck for extra power when starting trains. Trials on a K3 locomotive proved the success of the device and manufacturing rights were sold to Franklin Railway Supply Co., a division of Lima. On a K3, the C2 booster, as it was known, added 9700 pounds of TF to the main cylinder rating of 30,900 pounds, thereby giving the stout and sturdy K3 the latent reserve muscle to easily walk away with more of a train than one might expect. The booster success even got into the road's advertising as a part of the slogan "The Water Level Route - You Can Sleep" because smooth staring, without a janging lurch of taking up slack in the middle of the night, afforded a restful sleep (This reference was also slanted toward the Pennsy competition where it was alleged the heavy lunging of doubleheaders against drawbars in the Allegheny Mountains crossing caused uncomfortable riding qualities). At any rate, boosters quickly became technology and most road engines had them.
Through the first decade of this century, freight power on the old NYC lines displayed the uncluttered, bare bones simplicity of such Nineteenth Century concepts as diminutive Moguls, low-drivered fast freight Ten-Wheelers and most importantly, the widely used Consolidations. In fact, so efficient and so economical were the heavy-duty Consols that they were still being acquired during the first three years of passenger Pacific usage, moreover, the breakaway to enlarged Twentieth Century freight concepts lagged six to eight years behind new passenger power developments.
By 1901 the time had come to enlarge the boilers and add wheels to freight engines, but strangely enough, the result was not the expected Mikado. Instead, the choice turned out to be a fleet of 200 class K11 fast freight Pacifics having 69-inch drivers and a TF of only 38,970 pounds, a figure that could be successful nowhere but on the Water Level Route. Alco delivered these unusual engines between 1910-13 and their large drivers (for a freight hauler) and four-wheel front trucks for greater stability at speed attracted so much attention that three competing roads in the New York-Buffalo market soon were receiving similar fleets of approximately 50 engines apiece despite the fact all were compelled to navigate long and tortuous mountain grades. The fast freight Pacifics of the Erie, the Lackawanna and the Lehigh Valley possessed the expected 69 and 70-inch drivers, however, they had larger boilers and cylinders, thus were heavier and much more powerful. The four fleets enjoyed varied careers beyond the years of their primary fast tonnage chores as most of NYC's K11's became local varnish haulers along with their K3 cousins, those of the Erie and LV saw a combination of main line passenger service and extensive local freight jobs while most of the DL&W's were converted to heavy 0-8-0 switchers.
New York Central 2632 class L1c, Lima built 1918, sitting at the Cincinnati, Ohio engine service area during July, 1939. Photo by Harold K. Vollrath
According to the Knight-Ridder News Service, the inscription on the metal bands used by the U.S. Department of the Interior to tag migratory birds has been changed. The bands used to bear the address of the Washington Biological Survey, abbreviated, "Wash. Biol. Surv." until the agency received the following letter from an Arkansas camper: "Dear Sirs: While camping last week I shot one of your birds. I think it was a crow. I followed the cooking instructions on the leg tag and I want to tell you it was horrible."
Happy B' Day to "Our Place" A special howdy to all from the sandbox. Set um' on me for the remainder of the week..Looks like i'm moving in the next few weeks, being reassigned to a Coast Guard squadron in the south, weekends in Kuwait here I come!!!
Ok what have we been up too?
Tom, gotta tell you this O scale great! I could get into this, then what would become of West Coast S? Suggestions from all welcomed...., great read on all your contributions,a wee bit too NYC (just kidding) have to introduce some SP material for variety..Would you believe I completely forgot about Easter, I thought the Chaplain was hinting at my lack of mass attendence , Duh! didn't get the sublime message I guess..Nor that spot of Boris in a Bunny suit.
Eric..What are the plans for Buffalo Terminal? But for demolition cost, NYC would have razed it by the early seventies, I imagine it to be pretty poor condition overall, gutted and chopped to permit a freight bypass and such...
Barndad, good read, I see you retain your usual sense of humor and distinct story telling.
Pwolf, our resident expert on all subject foreign, speaking of which one can find locomotives that have been derailed due to IED's, the object is to loot the contents of the trailing train, yet passenger trains are never attacked (such as they exist)...
A howdy to James, oh and master Lovedomes and Mr. interurban himself ,Rob
Ok, how do I intend to tie our NYC theme with the SP one may ask, check this out..
Upon the completion of demostrator trials of the EMD E7, EMD was confident that SP was impressed with the product. SP had the final word that stunned EMD, "The E7 was a great locomotive, the NYC will love them" Despite EMD's sales efforts the order was given to Alco for PA's. In time SP would roster E units, but they would always be second string players to the Alco's. To add further humilation to EMD, SP cancelled what would have been a massive GP-7's and rewrote the order for Baldwin. Indeed, 1949 was a tough year for EMD sales personal who garnered no new SP orders despite best efforts..
Dave
G'day Gents!
Okay, where's RUTH??? Where Lars??? Where's the key to the Penthouse Suite??? Hmmmm, where's Inspector Clueless???
Fine, so it's Boris 'n I against the world this afternoon - we can handle it, eh sidekick?? Youbetch!
So, a few more ACKNOWLEDGMENTS on this Anniversary Day at the Saloon by the Siding!
Doug at 1:17 PM today: And the quality material continues . . . enuf reading material to get us through the longest of droughts, fer sure, fer sure! Nice work barn weevil and especially great to have your support throughout this 2nd Anniversary Day at the bar!
Still "enjoying" that GG1 in Tuscan livery with those gold stripes - Da Best, fer sure, fer sure! When you visit the Cam-Am Trainroom, there's one in a display case with a tuscan passenger consist that I think you and the guys will enjoy seeing.
That final Pix on the Water Level Steam story is Da Best as well. Can you just imagine those "lucky ducks" who used to commute by train or simply go from city to city for business trips?? Man oh man, I was definitely born far too late. In those times I was alive, but hardly in a position to take advantage of those super fine trains! Ahhhhhhhhhhh.
Joke? <barf> <grin> Have another one on ME - perhaps your humor will IMPROVE!
Lars at 2:29 PM today: Back for more pain 'n suffering, eh??? Was wonderin' just what was going on. Hmmmmmm. But of course, everything's "above board" in this fine establishment of ours! Really???? <grin>
Great diesels of the NYC era and those lightning stripes really do bring back the nostalgia. It was a mighty fine road and always seemed to give "my" Pennsy a run for the money. According to the "stats" that Shane gave us awhile back, they pretty much beat 'em on some fronts. Those truly had to be the best of times for passenger railroads!
HEY! Give the Wolfman some SLACK, Mate. He's trying his best. The guy gets his fingers caught between the keys most times AND then there's the language deficiency. Just can't find enough of us Yanks to comprehend that Rugby accent. <grin> As Pete would tell us, "They didn't understand a word I said!" And I'm gonna spend nearly a week with this guy aboard moving trains in Canada! <yikes>
Pete at 2:49 PM today: You said you'd return and you DID. Fine Post, as always, and just WHO is that guy in front of the TrainWreck Saloon?? Is he holding up the overhang or is it supporting him??? Hmmmmm - good time that day, eh Mate
I'll have to add your well put together piece on the British Big Four RR Companies into the "pile to be read later," or as a "talk show host" would say, "in the stack of stuff."
A beauty of a beast that Pitchford Hall loco - do you have a full length one available?? Nice looking, fer sure, fer sure.
By the by, I sent you an Email this morning . . .
Doug at 3:22 PM today: <phew> I can hardly keep up with youse guyz today! What a fine, fine day and to think it's only a handful keeping things going like this. Imagine what it would be like if ALL of the guys listed on Eric's "2" had shown up??? I think we'd need at least 4 barkeeps!
Nice one on the Concepts of Water Level Steam, however it too will be added to the "stack" - <phew>
Okay, Gents, I'm gonna take a short break - I see Ruth is back. She looks just a tad unsteady. Hmmmmmm. Hope she's not ill. <grin>
Later!
Tom
Hello again Tom and crew.. This time the round's on me! Manager Lars has forgiven me for deviating from his beloved NYC theme, and provided some real nice pictures for us to enjoy.
The boss (Tom) left the country, and is trying to teach us about the four British railway companies. Are we having fun or what?
Here's my part II of NYC stuff from "Rails Northeast":
Boston & Albany #1434, class A1b, Lima product of 1927, photographed at Selkirk, NY during July, 1945. Photo by Harlod K. Vollrath
The Central's easygoing routes, highspeed operations and modest-sized power, even through the Age of Super Power, all stand in stark contrast to the mountain-going profiles and massive engines that existed on all of its neighbors and competitors to the immediate south. On such roads as the Pennsy and Baltimore and Ohio there were long and tedious grades winding their way over the Poconos and Alleghenies and Blue Ridges. Double-headers and/or pushers were the accepted way of life here and everything from husky three-cylindered 4-8-2's on the Lackawanna to Santa Fes on the Erie, LV, PRR and B&O were a common sight. Also, the Pennsy's hundreds of monster Decapods and B*O's articulated out in West Virginia all created awesome spectacles battling up to Gallitzin or Terra Alta.
Doubleheaders long most of NYC's main lines were actually so rare as to be termed a phenomenon when they did occur. Two places where they were run regularly included the B&A, as previously mentioned and on the Pennsylvania Division to Avis or Newberry Jct., (near Williamsport), Pa., where the older L1 Mohawks ran. And looking a bit farther afield to find something on the Central that differed from the sameness and standardization and conservatism of the vast fleets, you could find a modest 16-unit herd of doddering old 2-6-6-2 Mallets tucked away in the southeastern Ohio coal fields where they ran out of a small enginehouse located at Minerva.
Over the long haul from 1904 to the end of steam development in the middle 1940's, the simplified planning strategy for NYC's road power was aimed toward an intensive concentration upon just four basic wheel types which were acquired in vast quantities and used ubiquitously throughout the system to haul the major part of main line traffic. First came a great proliferation of Pacifics and Mikados which did so well along level track that little else was used until the late 1920's, the only significant exception being the 185 L1 light Mohawks of World War I vintage for fast freight service. With more than 800 light Pacifics and about 1000 Mikados in light to heavy sizes roaring over the road by 1925, Central had not only amassed the greatest assemblage of these types ever to be seen upon any American road, but had come close to standardization its main lines with two principal wheel arrangements.
The dawning of the Super Power Age in the late 1920's once again favored water level rails with a superiority of numbers as a long needed modernization program brought seemingly endless legions of new Hudsons and Mohawks to the road. This time there occurred a notable exception in the form of 55 A1 Berkshires which the B&A needed to solve its special problems in getting over the Berkshire Hills. Completing the steam picture were the 27 spectacularly successful Niagras which, unfortunately, were a product of the Diesel Age and had scant opportunity for any longevity despite the fact that they could out perform a two-unit 4000-horsepower E7 diesel locomotive.
Through all these years of steam history, the water level concept embraced conservatism and the dogged determination to employ as few wheels as possible to get the job done, an air of independence from whatever was going on elsewhere in design and mechanical circles and an exceptionally high degree of standardization among its vast armadas of engines. Such practices were natural inborn traits of bigness and in this respect it was probably was not too surprising that the same concepts were true of Central's arch rival, the Pennsy, but after this, the schism between the two big Eastern carriers widened like a Grand Canyon as each proselytized its own special brand of technology which were opposites.
In deference to the easy-going terrain and some clearance limitations on its lines east of Buffalo, Central engines were characterized by their modest size and modest horsepower output while making extensive use of all the modern appliances to maintain the highest possible efficiency. This was a road where a high tractive force was achieved only with the aid of a trailing truck booster and where the stoker and feedwater heater were used with abandon to produce steam and more steam for those hungry cylinders at racehorse speeds. Then too, the physical plant was finely honed to sharpen up the operating performance by dotting many divisions with track pans for scooping water on the fly and online coaling stations. Thus in the Central scheme of things, nearly all tenders possessed water scoops while the water carrying capacities were small in relation to large coal bunkers.
New York Central #1405 (ex-1221-3661-2463), class H5e, built originally by Brooks Locomotive Works in 1905 as a 2-8-0, photographed at Toledo, Ohio in September of 1949 by Harlod K. Vollrath
A man had been drinking at the bar for hours when he mentioned something about his girlfriend being out in the car. The bartender, concerned because it was so cold, went to check on her. When he looked inside the car, he saw the man's friend, Dave, and his girlfriend kissing one another. The bartender shook his head and walked back inside.He told the drunk that he thought it might be a good idea to check on his girlfriend. The fellow staggered outside to the car, saw his buddy and his girlfriend kissing, then walked back into the bar laughing."What's so funny?" the bartender asked."That stupid Dave!" the fellow chortled, "He's so drunk, he thinks he's me!"
I think I will have the Bathams as shown on the beer mat TOM showed please RUTH.
Great posts for our 2nd anniversary, just back in so have not read all the posts yet which I shall do now.
I thought I would do Part 1 of a post I have prepared for the festivities.
NAMED LOCOMOTIVE OF THE BRITISH BIG FOUR RAILWAY COMPANIES.(Part 1)
The many British railway companies were formed into was became known as the big four in 1923.
As we talked about a while back at the bar the British companies had a way of naming their passenger locomotives. Before the grouping some railways were quite prolific in naming locos whereas others did not name them at all, but the big four all had named locomotives.
GREAT WESTERN
The Great Western was the most unaffected by the grouping and they had always had a policy of naming their passenger locos.
Apart from a solitary pacific built in the 1900s the GWR had no passenger loco bigger than a
4-6-0, and they named even their mixed traffic locos.
The largest class of these was the 4900 Hall and 6959 Modified Hall, these engines totaled 329 locos and all were named after the stately homes although towards the end a lot of the Halls were nowhere near GW territory.
A larger express passenger class was the 4073 class Castles there were 167 of these. As the name suggests the majority were named after Castles mainly in GW territory. The Great Western in 1936 needed some light locos to work on the ex Cambrian lines in Wales so they mated a Duke class type boiler with a Bulldog outside frames, these were much older classes and they looked it. Anyway they named these locos after Earls but it is said that when the noble gentlemen found out that there names were on such old fashioned looking locomotives they objected and the GWR rapidly applied their names to brand new Castle class locomotives.
Also some Castles were named after aircraft used by the RAF in WWII, and a couple named Isambard Kingdom Brunel and Sir Daniel Gooch from the GWR's earliest days. The last Castle was a named Swindon after the works where the locos were built. The locos not named after Castles had as small plate below the main name that read ‘Castle Class'
The largest GWR Express passenger locomotives were the 6000 class, which had the largest tractive effort of a loco in Britain at the time of their building. I have read that the strong rumour was that the 30 locos were the named after Cathedrals as a logical step from Castles, but from what I have read at the bar it seems the King name was chosen when the first loco of the class was asked to appear at the B&O Centennial celebration in the U.S.A.
The locos were named from the King of the time, King George V in a descending order. The last two engines of the class were renamed as two new Kings of England ascended to the throne as the 6000s were in service.
The last named Great Western locomotive class was the ‘County' a total of 30 engines introduced in 1945, these locos had straight nameplates where the others were curved. As the name suggests the class of 30 was named after Counties of England and Wales. F.W. Hawksworth who had followed C.B Collett as Chief Mechanical Engineer designed these locos. The Great western only had 7 CMEs from 1837 until nationalisation in 1948
Other GWR Mixed traffic named locos was, the 1936 introduced Grange class of 80 locos and the 1938 Manor a class of 30
A photo of a preserved Hall showing how the nameplate fitted in well with the copper on the loco.
Back in a bit.
Ahoy Cap'n Tom 'n fellow travelers at the bar!
Ruth, you are lookin' just a bit fatigued. Why not go up to the Penthouse Suite and rest a bit! I'll take care of things down here . . .
Ahhhh, a frosty mug of Keiths finest Ale should go well with the Larsman Special hero sandwich of ham 'n Swiss, mustAHd 'n buttAH and two large <crispy> pickles from the barrel. Of course, a saucer of brine for Tex, a seed try for Awk, a bucket of ice cubes for Frostbite and a LARGE jar of pickled pig's feet for Boris <he's been working very hard today!> And, a round on me!
One of the most active week days in recent memory and extremely happy to see so many familiar faces in here.
This year I did NOT solicit for business as with last - figured there was no point in it. The guys who want to be here ARE. 'nuf said, huh Youbetchaboots! <grin>
I'm quite suprised that our UK Connection didn't catch the festivities going on - it isn't as if we haven't been "talking" about this day for weeks 'n weeks. Don't suppose he has "that syndrome" do ya???? You know, the dreaded "only reading what I want to read" malady that has stricken so many, young and old alike. Nahhhhhh, DL isn't like THAT! Just an omission and my guess is that he'll make up for it PDQ!
A fine, fine informative post from the other side of the pond, but as with Cap'n Tom, I must save and savor it for a later time. Far too much to digest with all of this going on.
Ok Doug, you are spared the 'wratch' of the Manager <this time> as I'll put away the keel hauling equipment, super sized dunk tank, and "plank." Sorry Boris, I know how hard at it you've been. <groan> Strong back, weak mind . . .
Very nice NYC "stuff" and really enjoyed the steam loco and passenger car pix. Right out of Nostalgiaville - great, great times for railroading and the SYSTEM knew how to do "it."
Enjoyed the "run down" from Cap'n Tom, and when you see all of those posts along with the times, you realize that when we are busy, we are really busy, but when there's drought - as with most daytimes, there's really drought. "Feast or famine" is what this place has been known as - BUT not today!
Awright, where's that Bar Chandler when we need him???? Good Grief Charlie Brown, this is our busiest day of the year! Just when I thought we had him squared away . . . <groan>
Here's a bit more on the SYSTEM, then I'm off to do the bidding of the Mrs. (after checking the "upstairs" of course . . . ) Many are recent repeats, but still a "treat" for the eyes!
NYC 20th Century Ltd EMD E units southbound along the Hudson River (1947) (from: Bruce Wolfe collection)
NYC F7A #1684 (photo credit: J. Hunt)
NYC F7A #1757 (photo credit: J. Hunt)
NYC EMD E8A #4096 (Credit: Corel Corp.)
NYC PA3 #4210 (photo credit: Bill Waller)
Until the next time!
Lars
Hi again Tom and friends! Seems like I can't find my way off the barstool today, and who would want to? All my friends are here! I see that Peter made it in. Quite the post from friend DL in the UK. Lots of commentary, stories and links in that post. Loved the Chappel bridge. I read an article in our local rag today concerning the construction of temporary tracks over one of our city highways, at the incredible bargain of $18 million. This doesn't include the design fee of an additional $4 million! Has the world gone nuts?
Glad the boss is enjoying the posts and activity so far today. Let's enjoy the moment and see what the future brings when it gets here.
And now ... especially manager Lars, here is part I of a NYC article from "Rails Northwest" :
Boston & Albany H-5j 2-8-2, #1200 backs a ballast train along the westbound main, on the east side of town, Worchester, Mass. On 8/23/49. Photo by Philip R. Hastings
NYC's superb level-graded main lines from the Atlantic Seaboard to the Midwest afforded a racetrack where the name of the game was horse-power and speed, yet the paradox of conservatism and small engines prevented the realization of a truly super railroad.
Nearly five decades ago up in the broad and scenic Hudson River valley, the late afternoon sun of a humid Summer day hung suspended in the far Western sky like a ball of blazing fire, its diminishing rays glinting weakly upon the handsome, esthetically perfect features of a mighty, thundering J1 Hudson charging along the East riverbank, her madly whirling 79-inch drivers violently prancing siderods affording the long-legged, long striding pace of a sleek and supple thoroughbred dashing down the home-stretch. She was 20 miles out of Harmon and headed north for she had a long way to go and an exacting schedule to maintain with the 13 heavyweight Pullmans of the New York Central's flagship, the celebrated Twentieth Century Limited. From the electric-to-steam engine change point at Harmon, located 32.7 miles north of Grand Central Terminal, the indefatigable 4-6-4's were dispatched on long distance through runs covering five divisions and 581.3 miles in 10 hours and 20 minutes at an average speed of 56.3 m.p.h. to reach Collinwood (near Cleveland) Ohio where a Cleveland Union Terminal 2-C-C-2 P1 electric took over for the next 13 miles to Linndale. From here, a second Hudson ran the remaining 347.2 miles to Chicago's LaSalle Street Station.
The Central's (and America's) first Hudson type, No. 5200, which was created largely through the design expertise of the late Paul W. Kiefer, Chief Engineer of Motive Power, rolled from Alco's Schenectady, N.Y. plant upon a propitious February 14, 1927 and by 1931 there were 205 J1's storming along the main lines plus an additional 20 J2's with smaller 75-inch drivers on the Boston and Albany. These were the days when all roads led to New York and 70 to 80 Hudson-powered limiteds roared up and down the multiple-tracked Hudson Division each day. By 1932, the Century's running time to Chicago was cut from 20 to 18 hours and the long through engine runs to Collinwood tested the endurance of the J-1's high capacity boiler as 14-inch piston valves fed huge gulps of steam to 25X28-inch cylinders and the exhausts blended into a steady roar at 80 m.p.h. or better.
A pair of NYC K-11e Pacifics, #4552 and #4549, highball Adirondack Division Train #15 up the Lake Placid Branch toward Lake Placid. Photo taken at Saranac Lake, NY on 9/3/49 by Philip R. Hastings
But there was much more involved in getting her over the road than pulling the throttle and feeding her firebox and boiler, for the operations planners had in place a unique system to keep a J1 moving with a bare minimum of servicing stops. Her 12,500-gallon tender was replenished on the fly at 13 track pan locations along the way while her 24 tons of coal was devoured by the greedy firebox at the rate of one ton for each 15 miles covered, necessitation a brief stop to load fuel at the Wayneport, N.Y. online coaling station. Located 322 miles west of Harmon and 66.3 miles west of Syracuse, the refueling oasis at Wayneport was a busy place all night long as Hudson after Hudson, like hungry charging beasts, slowed their headlong pace and came dociley up to the feeding trough as each famous named train of the Great Steel Fleet took its turn.
So enraptured had the Central become about the ability of the Hudsons to haul heavy consists over level track at high speeds that the years 1937-38 brought forth 50 J3 super Hudsons, thereby making a grand total of 275 such engines representing nearly 57 per cent of the 485 4-6-4's built for the 18 U.S., Canadian and Mexican roads and dwarfing the next largest user, the Canadian Pacific which had 65.
Paired K-11e 4-6-2's #4552 and #4549 bring in Train #15, overnight sleeper train from New York City loaded with tourists for Lake Placid. Photo taken at Saranac Lake, NY on 9/3/49 by Philip Hastings
While Hudsons were the glamour girls and the legendary image of NYC's Golden Age of Steam, much else was contributed to water level railroading during the Kiefer years. The freight business was in charge of an unparalleled fleet of 600 Mohawk type 4-8-2's that filled out the roundhouses and held sway along the main lines. These ranged from 185 long and lanky L1's of World War I vintage to 300 brawny and muscularly built L2 engines that came in concert with the Hudsons to the World War intrusion of 115 L3/4 classes which presented a sleek and finely tailored look together with the greatest horsepower yet achieved in any Central locomotive. Once again, Mohawk ownership topped all comers with 28 per cent of all such engines built, the next contender being the Pennsylvania's 301 famous M-1's, however, on a World-wide basis, the Union of South Africa once operated more than 1200 4-8-2's.
Needless to say, the vast fleets of Hudsons and Mohawks were acquired as the natural successors to smaller Pacifics and Mikados, but the situation was quite different over on the 200-mile Boston and Albany subsidiary. Herein stood the only significant main line grades on the entire system where, in a 43-mile stretch between Westfield and Pittsfield, the line snaked up and over the rugged Berkshire Hills with east and westbound grades of 1.5 per cent leading up to Washington Summit. Ancient 2-6-6-2 Mallets and Central's only ten 2-10-2's once worked its tonnage up and over this barrier, however, the Mallets were scrapped and Santa Fes sold to Grand Trunk Western when 55 high capacity A1 Berkshires of Lima design proved their merit. Having heavy-visaged and pipe-entwined boilers, these 2-8-4's often doubleheading, wrestled the tonnage up and over the grades like it had never been done before.
The 930 Hudsons, Mohawks and Berkshires (among a total ownership of about 2500 engines of all types) formed the backbone of the Central's modern day steam operations along all principal main lines. The philosophy of the motive power designing here was to achieve high steaming capacities to feed modest-sized cylinders, since the normal starting tractive force was not great in many cases, boosters were employed perhaps more extensively than on any other American railroad to get trains started; once underway, little difficulty was encountered on the relatively level track. The road's builders had secured the onl
Surely cannot recall a morning as active as this since our 1st Year Anniversary! Great to see the outpouring from our staunch supporters. I suspect we'll see a couple of others as the day passes on, but for now, a huge THANX to all who have come aboard for our 2nd Year Anniversary Celebration!
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS (since my last narrative):
CM3 Shane at 8:29 AM today: A most appreciated Part Deux to the Boston & Albany (NYC) narrative. An equal, fer sure, fer sure, to what we saw yesterday. The comments along the way surely echo my own, for as I read through the piece, it was almost as if I were there too!
Many thanx for the quarters, round and greeting!
BK at 9:32 AM today: What a rare treat! Two for the price of one as Bud ‘n Lydia graced our establishment to help usher in the festivities for the 3rd year of "Our" Place.
You have a way with "woids" my friend and I think we all know they are from the heart, for you're not the sort to mince "woids" and I'm happy to call you FRIEND!
By the by, you are absolutely "right on" with the "credit" to barn weevil Doug for those animations and Pix. He has been quite the innovator from the time he walked through those doors to present times. Nice of you to pick up on it!
Good to see Lydia over there at the table overlooking the mainlines. An equal in radiance to Ruth. A most fortunate guy to have her, BK. Ahhhhh, then there's MY Cindy . . . <grin>
Many thanx for the kind words and TOAST!
Doug at 10:11 AM today: A 2nd visit and some excellent "doctored" photos too! <grin> Oh IF only I could really be THAT tall!! Not really - for there's a saying that I live by, "Tis better to have loved a short, than never to have loved aTALL!"
Loved the GG1 piece and you absolutely DO have a "way" ‘round the "theme" and so forth, eh <grin> Don't sweat the small stuff, for I - and only I - have the key to the <tweeter box> safely tucked away . . . . now where in the world????? Oh well . . . <grin>
Lars at 10:26 AM today: The Manager speaks and has done so with great gusto!
Most pleased to see you aboard and in spite of the cold ‘n rainy day in Gotham, very glad you've maintained your high spirits too. Think the Mets game will be rained out?? Noted the Braves are 7-1 whereas the bad boys from Queens are now 5-3. Awwww, what the heck, it's far too early for apoplexy, eh <grin>
My Cards are 5-4 and tied for 1st . . . whowudduathunk it after your bad boys thumped us last week <grin>
Go easy on our barn weevil, okay He's got "your number" and you're playing right into his paws hands claws feelers (whatever!!).
A super fine TOAST from you and some "neat" NYC steam loco's to add to the "theme" for the WEEK. (When did we begin THAT????) <grin>
Rob at 10:27 AM ‘n 10:47 AM ‘n 10:53 AM today: The trolleyMAN returneth with some "good stuff"! Appreciate the THREE TOASTS and I may have to think just a tad about that last part of the 3rd one . . . hmmmmm. But I know where you're coming from - nice guy that you are!
All three contributions most appreciated but the best of ‘em all is having you back amongst us.
Now, let's get THIS straight: I NEVER will use THAT "RobISM" - mind's nose, indeed! <yikes> <grin>
Always good to see the Port Maitland, Ontario service "stuff"! Came thru just a bit on the "light side" - kinda faded, but was able to make it out. Fits well with NYC, fer sure, fer sure!
Did you catch any of that Vancouver game last night?? Four over times - now that's something else indeed. Yeah, I know, the "record" is six back in 1936 when Detroit beat the Montreal Maroons in 6 overtimes. But still . . . . Also, Ottawa put it to the Penquins. Love to see at least one north of the border team make it to the finals. Just doesn't seem right if they don't.
Also noted that the gals
Hello Tom and all in.
I'll have a pint of Mild and some food please.
Incidentally Pete - I had a pint of the ‘new' fake Kimberley Mild the other day - tastes like a totally different drink - if Greene King brewers have tried to match the taste now they have closed the local brewery all I can say is they have not done a very good job of it! So the flavour of the real thing is just a memory!
Great GCR entry by the way - loved the windcutter story - and I have friends here with fond memories of the Grimsby Express Fish service just as you describe! I imagine they left quite a smell in their wake!
Here's an Insul Fish Van :
http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/wagon/87720.html
And here are some great posters too
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10172611&wwwflag=2&imagepos=5
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10174227&wwwflag=2&imagepos=7
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10176123&wwwflag=2&imagepos=15
Well, plenty of contributions since my last visit, and good to see the return of some regulars (Rob, you'll have to scroll back a few pages for the story of a local tram rescued from being part of a house for 70 years and being scheduled for restoration).
I've not time to comment on all the good stuff but noticed a couple of points.
Eric - like Pete said, the UK Diesel Hydraulic design was based on the German V200 diesel you pictured, but I also think this was one of a number of derivative designs from what must have been a successful German product. I'm sure that Norwegian State Railways had their version too.
Here is a web link to what I assume is a Hungarian version of the type.
http://www.nohab-gm.com/en/en05_2.html
James - you asked about ‘bhp' the bhp stands for Brake Horse Power. Quite why we use this I'm not sure!
Pete - I spotted you had flagged up a train ferry question for me too. I think the cross channel train ferry was withdrawn immediately the channel tunnel opened (although hazardous cargoes can not go in the tunnel for safety reasons so presumably they got lost to road and are trucked on Roll On / Off vehicle ferries).
What I'm not sure of is if there are any operating on the north sea. I don't think there are, but I did read talk of re-introducing one not so long ago - I presume this was to compete with the channel Tunnel who are sadly taking relatively negligible quantities of freight across the channel - mainly it would seem as the operating company seems to set expensive tariffs and market forces don't seem to be working to get them to reduce these costs.
Couple of thought provoking articles here
http://www.christianwolmar.co.uk/articles/rail/559.shtml
http://www.christianwolmar.co.uk/articles/standard/june14,05.shtml
Anyway - time for another trip report - this time to East Anglia.
Eat Anglia is a largely rural area to the north east of London facing Europe across the southern part of the North Sea. It is known for its picturesque villages and coastal towns, some connected for many years with the fishing industry.
I was able to travel south from the Midlands on one of GNER's 125 mph diesel high speed trains (these are 30 year old machines still working in top link service - see
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/art/2007/03/classics_of_everyday_design_no_10.html
)
however, this was one of the first ones to emerge from the works with a new power unit and fully fitted out with a new interior - which was quite high quality (and a better refurbishment than has previously happened on the passenger cars of this design).
See:
http://www.gner.co.uk/GNER/PressCentre/PressReleases06/‘MALLARD+STYLE’+IMPROVEMENTS+FOR+GNER+HSTs.htm
However, due to some technical difficulties the train was running 30 minutes late when I caught it, and I'd planned to take breakfast in the dining car but when I boarded the staff said they were fully stocked with food but the cooking equipment was not working so the dining car was closed. I took a seat in the last car (which is supposed to be mobile phone free) to find a handful of engineers from the company that had handled the refurbishment on board to assess the journey. Most annoyingly they seemed to have no intention of respecting the ‘mobile free' nature of the car and persisted in talking on their phones for the duration of the journey. All in all a poor show - and quite frankly I was surprised that it had been considered acceptable to put the cars into passenger service with technical problems that meant the dining car could not operate and the train could not keep to time!
A complaint to the management elicited a modest compensation voucher.
Anyway - headed out to East Anglia the next day (the Saturday) on a modern diesel distributed power unit (which was heading for the Suffolk Coast of England - an area to the north east of London, and incidentally - a big area where USAAF bases would have been back in the last war). We headed to Sudbury where we transferred on to a single car diesel unit for the truncated line towards Marks Tey.
These single car units are like a modern equivalent of an RDC (but with much less style) - some pictures of the design are here.
http://www.coxster.co.uk/railphotography/dieselunits/class153/index.htm
Before getting to our alighting point we crossed over this massive brick built viaduct (one of the largest brick structures in England I learn) :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/essex/content/articles/2006/02/07/chappel_viaduct_feature.shtml
and some good pics here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/essex/content/image_galleries/chappel_viaduct_gallery.shtml?2
hard to believe this tiny branch line warranted such a massive building, but back in the day this was an important cross country route serving east Anglia - but this is predominantly an agricultural area so when the cartage of farm goods moved to the roads from the 1950s onwards the line was in trouble and much of it was closed. I suspect it played an important role in the last war however, given the important network of air bases throughout eastern England.
At the station is the relatively small, but well done East Anglian Railway Museum, They have restored the station buildings, and the goods shed, and have a number of items on display, as well as a restoration shed where they were working on some very old passenger cars plus other bits and pieces. We had a good look round and more info is here:
http://www.earm.co.uk/index.php
Following this we set out on a 9 mile hike, which was over fairly undemanding terrain, with a couple of good pub stops en route.
The return journey to London was made on one of the new Siemens German Built class 360s 25 kv Electric MU
http://www.thejetsetter.co.uk/hpbimg/rails4/360113ipswich.jpg
This was quite comfortable (although it is designed for commuter traffic with 5 seats across the car body width so could be cramped at busy time), although it did occur to me how filthy the British public can be, since this train was strewn with the days litter inside it, and the toilet area was bedecked in graffiti, yet the train can't have been more than a year or so old. Very disappointing. The design has good large windows though to help enjoy the view (although it was dark by the time we made this journey).
Anyway - all good wishes
DL
Howdy again Tom and friends! I wondered if I might ruffle the feathers (which is so unlike me) of manager Lars for posting Pennsy stuff on NYC week, but the boss loves Pennsy, RDCs, CP and CN. It only makes sense to please the boss on this particular day. For example, here's a picture of the 4877 I didn't know I had!
Not to worry though. My next posts will be all about NYC. You shall see. I surely enjoyed your several locomotive pix, by the way.
Howabout that Rob dropping by today with some mighty fine submissions? Now I am finally ready for the 6th ... or was it my 7th toast?
Here's to "Our Place", Tom, the barmaids, the patrons, the critters, the free drinks and parking, and did I mention the barmaids? May your glasses be always full and the coal scuttle never empty.
A construction worker walks into a bar. He's a rather large, menacing guy. He orders a beer, chugs it back, and bellows, "All you guys on this side of the bar are a bunch of idiots!" A sudden silence descends.After a moment he asks "Anyone got a problem with that?" The silence lengthens.He then chugs back another beer and growls, "And all you guys on the other side of the bar are all scum!" Once again, the bar is silent.He looks around belligerently and roars, "Anyone got a problem with that?" A lone man gets up from his stool unsteadily and starts to walk towards the man."You got a problem, buddy?" "Oh no; I'm just on the wrong side of the bar."
TO OUR PLACE FOR THE 2ND YEAR.
I just wanted to call in and get a coffee before I have to do some things, really great to see so many in.I will do what I have to do now, have a read and will be back later.
So Ruth a round for all please
So to continue on the fine NYC themed material here's a re-production of the TH&B / NYC ads and scheduales for the Port Maitland Ontario passenger service. Oh and Ruth how's about another round for the road, gotta keep tilla cachinging donchaknow.
enjoy Rob
Aha the morning is still progressing nicley. I note that the manager and "barn weevil" have snuck in again to pay their respects today. more thumbs up for both of you again5x
Doug-I to the GG1 article, what a wonderfull piece. I can rightly imagine the thoughts going throught the minds of the paintres and the restorers of that locomotive. I know how our guys feel when a newly restored car at the musuem takes it's first tentitive steps out onto the museum's mainline.Inspiring stuff
Lars-Both bookeneds in within a half hour of each other, truly old times I should say.I haven't had a Naploean in years that brings back some memories as ell Nice to see a few more NYC steamers grace the place again this morning.Actually it's nice to see the Central and the PRR coextisting on the same page in the form of yours and Doug's fine contributions x5
We'll I'll be back shorlty with a post then I unfortunatly need to head into work, I shall return this evening again however.
Rob
Good morning Ruth. I shall take a number three and partake of a coffee with a splash to start out this cold grey morning ( at least where I am )What to say but a large toast to the Captain and his unwavering support of "Our Place" truly a safe haven in the storms of the either !
A second toast to all the patrons that continue to support the efforts of this place. Tom, Lars, BK, Pete , Eric , Doug, Mike , & young James and Dave in his far flung outpost,and of coarse Pete and DL our two old world wizzes of the continental railways and their equipment.
A third toast to the girls and the critters and the sundry other charaters that inhabit this place of our minds, and lastly a toast for the missing friends,no matter the reasons of thier leaving they all did leave a lasting impression on this place.
It's indeed nice to see that most of us have already arrived for at least one round already today.We have had our down spots, but the information and the fellowship keeps a flowing, I do hope we can reach through to year three, hey I'm willing to give it the ole collage try
So to some coments on the past 18 hours of matgerial or so.
Tom-A fine rnedition of the ongoing NYC theme as already assumed it leaked into the next couple of days again,and why not it was the railroad was it not great passenegr pics and info sir Nice to see all the menageries and icons of Our Place spit polihed and ready for use and abuse today. By the sounds of teh teutonic caterwalling comming from the kitchen ( drum beating an arias of Wagner) that the girls have a feast of some proportion in store for all of us. Hopefully Pete will be able to control them
You are right I will be old and still invloved somehow with the rail seen when those lines are built. Who knopws mafbe I will retire and take my spade down there and help them build.
CM3- Two more posts of posts, both reads were wonderfull and as always I can see the action in my minds eye and smell the coal smoke in my minds nose ( a Robism for Tom to use as he see's fit )
Mike-Thanks for the pictures and videos,the downloads were worth the time and effort
Eric-Wonderfull to see the training sessions for the X2000 thanks for sharing, indeed one of the plus's of Our Place, where eklse could one find info such as that
Doug-RDC's galore,you trying to get some freebies out this place today. Whats that Boris oh yes the breahfasts are free today and BK and Eric have paid for the first rounds. Guess you get off on a technicallity Doug great pictures at any rate, I know the Boss loves them and so do I.
Lars-great steam shots to continue the NYC theme. I'm not supprised that you've managed to get it spread over three days again,shall we try to beat last times four day theme of the NYCWonderfull second aniversary collage there as well sir thank-you,aren't mac's wunnerfull
Pete-You will love 1326 when and if you get up to see us. It truly is a beautifull car. heather's da grew up in Toronto and when he was 10 his Mom would send him downtown to pay bills ( try that nowaday's) anyway he would take the King car into the core but he would weight for the old cars ( The TR's ) just becuase he liked the way the smelled aand the different ride of them as opposed to thier more modern barn mates the PCC or Witt cars .
BK-Nice to see the two of you in for the celebrations,makes the whole gang complete.I can't top the sentiment of eloquence of your toast and your post. So I shall humbly aggree and raise my glass to your toast and reflect upon it.You truly summed us up and our Host tom's intensions for this place in that one fine post. A salute to yiou as well sir 5x
Well Ruth here's another fifty to be used for rounds, once the power of BK's has worn off.
Happy 2nd Year Anniversary to "Our" Place!
Ruth my deAH you are absolutely stunning in that anniversary outfit! <blush> <oh-boy!>
Quick, I need two "jolts" in my morning coffee and something sweet from the Mentor Village Bakery Case. Ahhhhhh, yes a couple of Napoleans should do it. Dontchajustluv the custard inside??? <ummmmm>
Here we are, April the twelfth and the biggest surprise thus far has been the return of my "bookend" and friend, BK 'n Lydia from their mountain retreat in Alberta, Canada! What a special treat to see you both and very, very happy that you could make it in for this day of days!
Cap'n Tom, you outdid yourself with that compilation this morning. Must've taken a bit of time to put that one together. I'm sure the guys appreciate your tireless efforts, I surely do! a Platinum 5-Salute to our Proprietor!
Eric in Phoenix, that was one surprising submission from you with the creative "2"!! Nice touch and something very special to add to the festive atmosphere in this trackside tavern. You'll note that we've made scores of replica "2s" that are suspended from the ceiling, light fixtures and just about any other place we could find. The day of "2s" has arrived as we embark upon the year of "3"!!!
Nice stuff from Da BoyZ and the Urls from Mike are particularly interesting, IF one can get the "moving" ones to move. Must be my 'puter . . .
Really enjoyed the RDC pix from Doug as I know Da Boss did as well! You KNOW how to remain on his "good side," huh??? <grin>
Also just caught your 2nd post with the "Our" Place pix! Really "cool" and one of these days you'll have to let us "in" on the secret!
So, is that first one of Tom and the guys up in Toronto for last year's rendezvous?? A "WAG" on my part, for sure! Second one isn't hard to figure out - Tom should love it as he is rather TALL in comparison with the "locals" on the porch! <grin> Nicely done and most appropriate for the day.
A PENNSY GG1 duirng NYC "week"!! <arrrggghhh> <double arrrggghhh> Wonder where Cap'n Tom hides his <tweeter>
I had asked ALL who frequent this place today to offer up a toast to our continued success and so forth. Thanx BK for doing so! Here's mine: I lift my glass in honor of all who give a rat's patoot and hope that your energy will sustain us through the periods of calm that are sure to come. Cheers to Cap'n Tom, the staff and personalities of "Our" Place!
Shane has continued on with his heart warming narrative of NYC experiences, so I'll chime in with a few more steamers from an era where Classic Trains were indeed special (and yes, Eric, what's not to like is that they aren't running any longer and many cannot be seen up close 'n personal ever again).
New York Central Hudson J3 4-6-4 #5437 passenger near Englewood, Illinois in 1948. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
New York Central Hudson J3 4-6-4 #5450 passenger at west Chicago in 1948. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
NYC Niagara 4-8-4 #6003 passenger near Englewood, Illionis (S. Chicago) in 1948. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
New York Central Niagara 4-8-4 #6013 passenger near Bellefontaine, Ohio in 1946. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
New York Central Niagara #6024 passenger at Englewood, Illinois in 1948. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
NYC Niagara 4-8-4 #6024 on the power stroke at Englewood, Illinois in 1948. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
Ruth, drinks on the Manager! Boris, ring the ding!
Good morning again Tom and friends! If Eric is still buying, I'm drinking! Looks like some mighty fine posts so far this day. Nice arrangement of all things "Our Place" from Captain Tom. We've sure come a long way over the past few years.
Great NYC Boston and Albany stuff from CM3 today. Very well written and so descriptive you can easily envision being there. I've got a little NYC post for later today to continue the theme manager Lars began on Tuesday.
Wonderful to see BK this fine day as well. A picture request for me? Of course, here's the gang from the first reunion
Then there's the picture you requested
Be seeing ya'll later folks, and here is another article from "Rails Northeast
From 4935 to 4877 - The Pennsy Lives On by Robert Palmer
October 10, 1980 was a sad day for all railfans because GG1 #4935 , which had gained nationwide publicity by being painted in her original PRR livery of Brunswick Green and pinstripes, made her last run. But now, suddenly, a successor has arisen to take over where #4935 left off. This successor, New Jersey Transit owned GG1 #4877, will no doubt gain just as much, if not more fame than #4935 because instead of Brunswick Green, #4877 sports Tuscan Red! Although she never wore it originally, GG1 #4877 has been painted Pennsylvania Railroad Tuscan Red with gold pinstriping and lettering.
GG1 #4877 in silver primer inside the Raritan paint shop, on May 27, 1981. Notice the pantographs have been raised to their highest level so that they would not be painted.
This news will shock many people when they first hear it, because the idea that led to #4935's painting was proposed in Trains Magazine and she received full coverage as the restoration progressed. But, #4877 was painted almost "overnight" and behind peoples' backs. The whole job was done in just under three weeks.
Ever since, New Jersey D.O.T. first acquired GG1's #4872-4884 in 1976, there have always been rumors floating around that one, or all of them, would be painted. Many thought a GG1 would emerge in purple and silver like New Jersey D.O.T.'s E8's. But that never happened.
Then suddenly, in early 1981, rumors spread like wildfire when several N.J.D.O.T. (now called N.J. Transit) GG1's appeared with four thin metal strips welded horizontally across each air intake, exactly where pinstripes would go (the fifth pinstripe runs above the intake). These strips appeared on GG1's 4873, 4882 and of course 4877. But, as the weeks rolled by, nothing further developed.
Finally in the middle of May, the decision was made by N.J. Transit and #4877 was picked to be painted.
On Wednesday evening, May 13th, 1981, GG1 #4877, still in regular service, pulled a N.Y. & L.B. train from New York to South Amboy. At approximately 3:00 A.M. that Thursday morning, two N. J. Transit E8A's coupled onto #4877 and hauled her north out of Amboy and West over the Jersey Central Main to the N.J. Transit paint shop in Raritan, NJ, making #4877 the first GG1 painted anywhere except Wilmington.
The job of painting her was assigned to two veterans, Ed Babey and Jeff Hornecker, the men responsible for painting all N.J. Transit engines.
Before any painting took place, there was plenty of body work to be done. All dents, holes and rusted portions were filled with fiberglass and sanded. This work was slow and tedious, but for Ed and Jeff this was more than just another engine. They knew the significance of what they were doing and all men who have a great deal of pride in their work.
As black paint was sanded off, many reminders of the past began to reappear. The large keystone and broad yellow stripe appeared on both sides. On the ends, below the headlights, a tangled mess of heralds was formed as the PRR keystone, the PC worms and a small CR were all exposed, each on top of each other.
At 11:45 A.M. on the morning of June 1st, N.J. Transit GP-7 #5905 eases GG1 #4877 out of the Raritan paint shop for the first time in new livery.
By Wednesday, May 27th, the body work was completed and that morning, after taping over the windows, headlights, and marker lights, #4877 was sprayed with silver primer. While Ed and Jeff ate lunch, #4877, in her new silver coat, basked in the grimy, dimly lit single track Raritan paint shop. After lunch, her short-lived, pure silver coat was ruined. Any area that was to have striping or lettering was sprayed a bright metallic gold. The gold was sprayed all over the sides, behind that marker lights and below the headlights. After the gold dried, the meticulous job of applying lettering and pinstriping began and copies of the original PRR GG1 painting blueprints were brought out. Extreme care was taken to assure that each letter and each stripe was placed exactly where it should be. For those of you not familiar with the procedure, the letters, numbers and pinstripes are formed with tape and applied on the gold in the proper location. Then the Tuscan Red is sprayed over the entire engine. When the paint dries, the tape is removed and the gold lettering and striping exposed.
This delicate procedure took all day Friday, with most of the time being spent getting the five stripes to gently curve and drop down to an exact point on the nose.
With the taping done, the plan was to spray the Tuscan Red Monday morning and roll her out Tuesday. Then, over the week-end May 30-31, the big brass of N.J. Transit decided they wanted #4877 completed Monday June 1st, as was originally planned. They called Ed and Jeff in bright and early Sunday morning to spray the Tuscan Red. By the time word of this got out the painting was already done, so very few pictures exist of the Tuscan Red being sprayed.
Jeff Hornecker (left) and Ed Babey (right) admire their creation just minutes after being pulled out of the paint shop.
Monday morning dawned clear and sunny, and the small group of railfans who had been fortunate enough to hear the news gathered at the Raritan shop. Inside sat GG1 #4877, in Tuscan Red with tape still hiding the lettering and striping. The excitement grew as the tape was removed and the word Pennsylvania and the numbers 4877 were exposed on one side, then the other. The Pennsy livery began to take shape as tape hiding the keystones was removed. Finally, the pinstripes and the teardrops behind marker lights were exposed and all who were there were left speechless by the beauty and magnificence of the locomotive. Everything was perfect, right down to the thin stripe that circled #4877 at the base of the carbody.
The moment everyone had been waiting for had finally arrived. At 11:45 A.M. on June 1, 1981, N.J. Transit GP-7 #5905 coupled on to GG1 #4877 and slowly eased her out of the paintshop into the bright sunlight. The sun glistened off the paint, wh
Good Morning Captain Tom and fellow sophisticates!
Ruth, you do remember me of course! I will have a cup of coffee with just a "splash" to make it interesting along with two number three selections from the menu. Lydia will have a pot of tea and we shall sit over there by the windows overlooking the main lines. Thank you (she IS truly a gorgeous individual)!
Good to be back amongst some friends and comfortable surroundings. As this is the 2nd Year Anniversary celebration for the bar we call "Our" Place, I simply could not miss at least making our presence known on this special day and occasion.
Cap'n Tom, you put together quite a collage of materials in your opening posting, one that truly reflects the atmosphere of "Our" Place. Good show!
I have been reminded by my erstwhile (and ONLY) that Sir Doug has provided the bar with some terrific graphics. We can credit him with the bar photo, the Christmas train and of course, Boris. One that I recall from way back was that creation Sir Doug put together of Cap'n Tom standing on the front porch of "Our" Place. Now that was really special. I would love to see it one more time.
It has been quite a rapid climb in the page totals since the place was "reborn." It surely seems that in spite of the downward spiral in terms of active customers, there is no shortage of quality material to view and enjoy. What has always separated this idea of our Mentor and Proprietor from so many other sites in the place called ETHER (eeeTHA, as spoken in NYCity! Sorry "bookend"!!!) is that there is substance here and a forum whereby people can connect with one another over an assortment of topics. Fun and sharing of knowledge about railroading makes for a most interesting and successful watering hole.
I find it difficult to accept the passage of time since my first visit to this establishment, but time waits for no man, so it has been said many times. So many names are missing, but there are still some fixtures frequenting the bar from days long ago before anniversary number one.
Sir Rob (now known as trolleyMAN I note!!) - Sir CM3 (Shane seems to have taken hold!) and Sir Dave (the S-man in Iraq!) are three who go way back with this bar. Then of course Sir Doug (calling himself the barn weevil lately) - Sir Pete (Wolfman, a moniker given by one of our most memorable patrons - Sir Nick!) and of course the Proprietor himself, Cap'n Tom. Yes, quite a bit of bar banter, history and contributions tied up with those six!
I must make mention of perhaps one of our most dependable, reliable and most enthusiastic supporters of the bar. The gentlemen we know as Sir Eric. A most innovative creation from you and I thank you for including me for recognition within your "2." A humbling observation, indeed.
For those who "know" me, I am the novice of novices when it comes to all things railroad. As a youngster, my parents exposed me to train travel in the U.S. northeast and Canada. It was a marvelous time for trains and in spite of all that happened in the world during and following WWII, a great time to grow up. There were values, there were role models and sights to see and experiences to imprint in the mind of a child for a life time. The department store window displays at Christmas with the Lionel and American Flyer (Gilbert) trains. The hustle and bustle within and outside of city train stations is something I can still "see" and "hear."
I do not know why mine was to be an adulthood devoid of an interest in trains, but as I grew into manhood they seemed nothing more to me than a way to get from point A to point Zed. Again, harkening back to those who "know" me, my travels have taken me to locations around the world, with the majority in northern Europe. In some instances I did travel by rail and thanks to the exposure to the subject at this bar, I now APPRECIATE those travels far more today than I did when they took place.
I have shared some of my very limited knowledge and experiences with you and so many times wondered whether I was embarrassing myself, or those of you were simply being "nice" to me. I quickly discerned that the interaction was honest, open and sincere. That and that alone is why I continued to climb aboard "my stool" for a round and a story or two.
"Our" Place is indeed a special creation and for all who have crossed the thresholds (there are TWO front doors!) and taken advantage of the hospitality, you surely know what I mean. Yes, the numbers are down, but as has been said so many times, circumstances do not always remain static. Life has twists and turns leading us to places we would never had imagined. I think there are more people "out there" than we may give credit to who have taken a positive experience with them as the doors closed behind them. For the others, well, you KNOW my feelings regarding them. I like Cap'n Tom's expression: Screw ‘em all but six, and save them for pall bearers! Sums up my feelings quite well.
So Gentlemen of "Our" Place, as called by the Manager Lars, I toast each and every one of you who are indeed the glue holding this place together! I toast the good health and fortune for each and every one of you who give that proverbial Rat's Patoot Cap'n Tom refers to! Finally, I toast the characters and critters of "Our" Place, for you too have a place in the mind's eye of every "regular" who has frequented this establishment. Cheers and hope to see you all for the 3rd Year Anniversary!
Finally, for those attending the Second Annual Rendezvous in St. Louis, have a great time. I have sent Cap'n Tom a "little something" in advance as a remembrance of me for one of your evenings out.
Boris, take this fifty and ensure that the bar is set up on me for as long as it lasts. Good grief man, you need not ring that bell 50 times!
Best wishes to one and all!
Bud & Lydia K
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please, round for the house, and $ for the jukebox.
Second Anniversary greetings to all. The interior picture is a good one - it's not very often we see the furniture so neatly lined up and everyhting in its appointed place.
Another NYC-related piece. This is one I posted a long time ago, but it seemed to be a good time to rerun it, especially for those who might not have seen it b4.
Mohawks and the Boston and Albany
If the New Haven and the Boston and Maine were "home" roads, then the Boston and Albany was the way to the west. My mother, whose limited sense of geography was legendary in the family, was convinced that anything past Albany was the Middle West and quite possible desert populated by Indians. She believed the B&A (even if its equipment was lettered New York Central) to be a granger road that somehow appeared from the sky and plopped down in Massachusetts. All of this was based on the fact that the NYC's trains operated to exotic locales in Ohio, Illinois, and Missouri, let alone Utica, Rome, Syracuse and, God help us, Buffalo, Detroit and Toronto!
I pored over the Central's ads in the National Geographic, especially the ads for the overnight trains that ran along the Hudson River from New York to the west. I recall a piece that led off, "One by One the Windows Close Their Eyes." This showed a generic moonlight scene somewhere along the Mohawk Division. A westward train ghosted along in the moonlight on the immaculately maintained four-track main line. It was late at night, the ad copy said, and people were going to bed after an elegant meal in the diner, and some conversation and a drink in the lounge car. They would surely arrive at their destination the next morning well-rested after a good night's sleep along the Water Level Route. Another favorite was a wallow in nostalgia that appeared around Christmas. This ad pictured a toy train running around a Christmas tree. The copy, written to the tune of "Jingle Bells" ran to the effect that, "Oh what fun" it was "to ride on a New York Central train."
The reality of the NYC in New England was a lot different. The Central reached New England via the rails of the Boston and Albany - a gritty, blue-collar, sleeves rolled up railroad. The ancestry of the B&A went back almost to the beginning of the railroads in the United States. They steadfastly maintained their independence even after they had been absorbed by the much larger New York Central. I never recall hearing anybody on that road ever say they worked for the Central. It was always "I'm with the B&A," or "I'm an Albany man." The B&A contended with terrain and weather that more closely resembled that encountered by the Baltimore and Ohio or some western roads. People talked about the B&M's Fitchburg Division as being a terror in the winter, but they never had to deal with an ice and snow filled cut at Washington, Twin Ledges, State Line Tunnel or Charlton Hill.
Many B&A trains were diesel powered when I was growing up, but there was still some steam. My father rode the B&A when he traveled to jobs in western New England. He frequently traveled back to Boston on a local train, and I'd get to go with my grandmother and mother when they went to meet him at a suburban stop west of Boston.
Newtonville station was about in the middle of where I-90 is now. In the late 40s, however, the Newtonville station stood at the bottom of a grass covered knoll that swept down to the tracks. Here the railroad was in a space unconfined by walls or buildings. It afforded an entirely different prospect to the viewer. Westbound trains rolled through there if they were not scheduled to stop.
In the golden sunlight of a fall afternoon, the silvery rails of the four track B&A main line curved away to the west. To the east was Boston and the tracks receded from the station in a forced perspective enhanced by several highway overpasses. Now, from the east, barely discernable, a pinpoint of light appeared, grew larger and then seemed to stand still for a time. The light suddenly grew larger and then still larger and a faint, almost singing, sound was heard from the rails. Smoke was visible now above the light. The engine blasted out from beneath the overpasses, and then with a couple of enormous "chugs" passed in a welter of hissing steam, flailing drivers, heat and the aroma of coal smoke, hot grease, and oil. A quick glance in the cab window reveled the fireman hard at work in white cap and blue shirt and the engineer silhouetted in the window on the other side of the cab, one hand on the throttle and the other resting on the cab window ledge, his eyes staring intently at the track ahead. There were some filthy New York Central baggage and mail cars behind the tender followed by coaches, a diner, and four heavyweight sleepers. I later found out that the locomotive was a 4-8-2 Mohawk, probably among the last of its type in New England, and that the train was the "New England Wolverine" with cars in its consist for Detroit and Canadian cities. The train headed off to the west, its smoke hanging over the tops of the cars, the fragrance of coal smoke lingering after its passage along with a slight dusting of cinders and smaller particles. It was glorious.
Now let's ride the New Haven to GCT; we'll see some of the New York Central as well.
South of New Haven (west by timetable) the New Haven roperated a bewilderingly complex commuter service to and from New York. A four track main line ran under the wires in most places, except where buildings were too close to the tracks. The commuter trains usually operated on the outside two tracks and the through passenger trains on the inner two tracks. Add in the through and local freight traffic that operated then, too, and you'll get some idea of the activity that existed on the NYNH&H. It was not uncommon to see four or more trains at one time; all running. Many NH suburban stations were wooden structures, painted red or buff with white trim. Some of the larger towns, such as Stamford, Connecticut had more elaborate stations. The commuter trains were mostly mu cars that resembled subway cars. There were some stainless steel mu "washboard" cars too, but I remember these as the exception rather than the rule. Arrival at New York was either at Grand Central Station or at Pennsylvania Station.
Going to Grand Central we would swing up and over the New York Central on a magnificent flying junction at Woodlawn. Then we'd drop down on the west side and tie in with the NYC. Here was a stretch of big time railroading for certain as our train shared space not only with other New Haven trains, but with the trains of the mighty Central. Heading into New York, we'd pass by the Central's Mott Haven yard which was on the right hand side of our train. Mott Haven was a delight as it was always filled with not only with New Haven cars of all types, but also stainless steel New York Central cars, two-tone gray New York Central cars, and visiting sleepers and other equipment from foreign lines such as the Santa Fe and the Union Pacific.
Here's where the time spent studying the timetables my father brought home paid off, as I was able to recognize the different kinds of cars when I saw them, and sometimes could even figure out what trains they were from or for. Over there is part of the "Ohio State Limited," those cars are for the "20th Century," and there's a Los Angeles-New York sleeper off the Santa Fe!
The New York Central's Hudson line joined us from the right just south of Mott Haven and from there the procession into New York was on a high elevated track through Harlem. Many times, we stopped at 125th Street, and I was often lucky to see a New York Central run pulled by one of their electric locomotives. The buildings here were different than those in Boston. I could see apartment houses with factories nearby, often on the same block. Many of these buildings had wooden water towers on their roofs, again something that was not that common in Boston. One other place that had water towers on building roofs was Chicago. We had TV by then, and I'd watch Jackie Gleason's show, "Live from New York!" He had a series of sketches on the show called the "Honeymooners" which was set in Brooklyn. The buildings I could see heading into New York looked like the ones in the "Honeymooners."
We're getting close now and here we go into the Park Avenue tunnel. If I stretched just right I could look up through the openings in the tunnel and see the tall buildings that marked the passage toward Grand Central. The entrance to Grand Central was always thrilling as we crept through the darkness of the tunnel toward our assigned track. We're going very slowly now, past the underground tower with the lighted boards that controlled train movements in and out of the station. One last shudder and we stop. Now's the time to make sure we have everything we brought along with us - the car attendant has our bags out on the high level platform. Sometimes I carried my bags, but most of the time we used the services of a Red Cap, especially if the family was traveling together.
Have a good one.
Work safe
Happy 2nd Year Anniversary to all who frequent "Our" Place!
April 12th and it's our 2nd Year Anniversary!
<Juneau, our 1st mascot>
Breakfast is free today, so help yourself to the pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery, the <light> and <traditional> selections form the Menu Board and of course our freshly ground ‘n brewed "famous" coffee!
<Awk the Parrot>
Acknowledgments (since my last narrative):
CM3 at 8:23 AM yesterday: A must read for ALL who frequent this place of ours! What a fine submission and one that surely will take you "back" to the halcyon days when REAL trains kept REAL schedules with THROUGH cars to scores of destinations and all DESIGNED to provide as "seemless" as possible rail experience for the travelers.
This chronology of yours should be put between hard covers and sold as a book! I'd buy one, fer sure, fer sure! Well done, Mate and many THANX! [yeahhh]
<Herr Wurlitzer>
<Coal Scuttle>
Lars at 10:43 AM yesterday: Another outstanding spate of Pix from our Manager - 5 NYC steamers and a diesel passenger consist!
<Manager's Bar>
Pete at 5:52 PM yesterday: Neither snow, nor sleet, nor dark of night, nor ‘puter problems shall keep the Bar Chandler from his post and Postings at "Our" Place! l<grin> Glad you made it in and sorry that your "nightmare" with the comp-u-tater continues.
Rerun of the NYC passenger cars made for a fine supplement to the carryover "theme"!
Your Email arrived - I've been "tardy" with a response! <groan>
<Frostbite the Penquin>
<Brew from Merry Olde>
Mike at 9:20 PM yesterday: URLs - URLs ‘n URLs!
<Frostbite's Mom ‘n Dad>
Eric at 1:13 AM today: A most creative ‘n appreciated 2nd Anniversary greeting, fer sure, fer sure! A gold 5- Salute to our Resident Desert Swede!
Great run of X2000 "inside scoop" Pix! Undoubtedly there will be a rush to "steal ‘em" by those who delight in those sorts of things. But WE KNOW who took ‘em and who they were meant for and why! Many THANX!
Glad things worked out positively for you with the President on board - most times that's when Murphy's Law kicks in! <grin>
A fine inclusive ‘n informative Post to begin our 3rd year!
<Tex the Armadillo>
Doug at 5:02 AM today: The barn weevil, replete with some super-fine Pix (how can you go wrong with RDCs!?!?! Nice stuff, quality - as always!
<"Our" Place Christmas Train>
SUGGESTIONS for next week's Tuesday Theme for the Day are most welcome!
Reminder: Ruth has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til closing. Tonight is our Fish ‘n Chips Nite! We'll also have an "expanded" menu to commemorate our 2nd Year Anniversary! Dinner begins at 5 PM!
Good morning one and all! How is everyone on this 2nd, an unprecedented anniversary of Our Place? Before I say anything further, howabout that first post of the day from Eric? Three cheers to you sir for your fancy anniversary artwork and the exclusive X2000 testing photos and information. WOW!! What a special treat for us, and it's much appreciated.
Hokey Smokey, do I ever have a lot of catching-up to do. The posts from the past few days have been, as Tom puts it, small in quantity, but truely "quality" stuff. The pictures, information and commentary were first rate! I will be back throughout the day to be more inclusive, but in the meantime ... glad I got in early so I could take advantage of the free drinks. I suppose I had better get a few light breakfasts before my diet consists of nothing but liquid.
Anyhow, as I said earlier, I will be in throughout the day to provide material that has proven popular at Our Place in the past with certain individuals, starting with:
5:10 PM, April 2, 1981. The signals and crossovers clear a path for a tardy PATrain #115. Four RDC's attempting to make up lost minutes roll into view. They have been delayed by numerous slow orders due to extensive track work on both B&O and PL&E. The stainless steel snake slithered thru the interlocking then disappeard into the deepening shadows of the mill racing to the terminal.
The source of my contributions today, are from a defunct magazine called "Rails Northeast", which carried a volunteer staff, and the subscribers were the contributors. These particular pictures came from the August 1981 edition, and the photos and description come from a railfanning article named "Afternoon Delight" by Keith Clouse.
See ya'll a bit later!
I received a phone call from a gorgeous ex-girl friend the other day. We lost track of time, chatting about the wild, romantic nights we used to enjoy together. I couldn't believe it when she asked if I'd be interested in meeting up and rekindling a little of that "magic". "Wow!" I said. "I don't know if I could keep pace with you now. I'm a bit older than when you last saw me." She just giggled and said she was sure I'd " rise" to the challenge. "Yeah." I said. "Just so long as you don't mind a man with a waistline that's a few inches wider these days!" She laughed and told me to stop being so silly. She teased me saying that tubby men were cute, and she was sure that I would still be a great lover. Anyway, she giggled and said, "I've put on a few pounds myself!" So I told her to bugger off, and hung up.
Good morning Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!
Today is a remarkable day! Time to celebrate all day long!
Happy 2nd Anniversary!!!
What are we waiting for? All drinks are on me from now until noon!
Yes, Leon, I'll have my Rumpsteak Café de Paris! With the usual side orders! You must have been cleaning this place all evening, haven't you? Ruth did? And Boris? Yeah, it looks beautiful.
Tom – You mean that the gas price actually dropped 1 cent! Here it went up two cents at some stations! Today I had to make it here after midnight in order to start celebrating the 2 year Anniversary!!! And since you are the guilty one who started this bar and tavern by the siding I Salute You Sir!!! Well Done!!!A nice and interesting article about a very famous train, the 20th Century Limited!! 65 years of service! To late to ride today, but I can always imagine! Reading about the inaugural trip, when the train arrived three minutes ahead of schedule, makes me remember when I was operating the X2000 in Sweden on its inaugural trip from Stockholm to Gothenburg September 4, 1990. It was very important that we made it all the way on time and when we had about 7-8 minutes left to Gothenburg I was 6 minutes ahead of schedule. The the word came from the President of the railroad (he was on the train) that he didn’t want us to be ahead of schedule, we should be right on. Imagine losing 6 minutes when you have 7-8 minutes left. I had to slow down and the last two miles a streetcar passed the X2000!!! (There is a streetcar track next to the railroad the last few miles). I thought it was ridiculous, but I stopped the train exactly at the right time so the President was happy. CM3 – Wow!! What a great, factual story!! Love it! I can see all the switching going on and trains leaving and arriving! A lot of research and then putting it togehter like a novel! Wow again!Question: This must be the Buffalo Central Terminal, right? Lars – I think Ruth has forgiven you by now, hasn’t she? What is NOT to like? That those locomotives and trains can’t be seen today! That is what I don’t like. But you are doing a great job showing us the pictures from that time. Pete – So they actually had the correct logos on them! Nice! I’ll do some research and see if I have better luck. Thanks!I am glad you borrowed Tom’s pictures! Very nice models indeed! Nice train set, 11 cars long. Mike – Some nice pictures of Buffalo Central Terminal and its trains! I copied the view from above! I did not have much luck with those videos though. The sound worked and if I moved the “screen” so only 1/3 was visible, I could see the films. I saw some GG1s and Penn Station! Thanks!
I had hoped to be able to post something else today, but I couldn't find two missing pieces so I put this together in a hurry. It shows some randomly picked pictures from when we learned "everything" about the X2000 and the first test run. All photos: Christer Sjöborg.
"Everything" meant almost everything, like hundreds of diagrams.
Ready to begin the class.
Models were used to show in detail how things worked.
We learned how to program the computers controlling the train.
We looked at the "real" things.
Even equipment on the roof.
Finally, after three months, ready for the first test run.
Before we start the equipment in the cab is checked.
And the technical staff is all set and ready.
Have a nice day!
Eric
Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house
Buffalo Central Terminal
http://www.trainweb.org/rshs/Image3.gif
http://central.terminal.railfan.net/pics/1950-1970/termair.jpg
http://central.terminal.railfan.net/pics/railphoto.cgi?1950-1970/nittrain.jpg
Largest cities in the U.S census of 1910, all either Pennsy, Central or both.
1. New York 4,766,883
2. Chicago 2,185,283
3. Philadelphia 1,549,008
4. St. Louis 687,029
5. Boston 670,585
6. Cleveland 560,663
7. Baltimore 558,485
8. Pittsburgh 533,905
9. Detroit 465,766
10. Buffalo 423,715
Pennsy GG1 Army trains 1935
http://www.thoughtequity.com/video/clip/49301051_025.do
http://www.thoughtequity.com/video/clip/49301051_026.do
Penn Station
http://www.thoughtequity.com/video/clip/49305131_008.do
http://www.thoughtequity.com/video/clip/49315031_003.do
Canada
http://www.thoughtequity.com/video/clip/49309071_026.do
http://www.thoughtequity.com/video/clip/49309071_027.do
http://www.thoughtequity.com/video/clip/49310131_034.do
Mike
I have been without an Internet connection all morning, the provider had a problem, really hope this does not happen tomorrow. Then had to go to town but back now and have read the posts. So a Bathams for me and a round please RUTH.
ROB No wonder car #1326 is so much thought of in your museum, being the first car at the museum way back in 1954.With a wooden frame as well there must be a lot of work, reading about the interior of the car, I would indeed love to see her in person one day.
Watched the KC Royals against Toronto last night (I won't mention the score) they showed a view of Toronto with a trolley passing.
Looks like I am in Lars good books again (I hope).
ERIC. The class 90s painted in the colors of the SNCB, DB and SNCF did have the logos on them. I have tried to see if I could find some photos on the web of them but was unlucky. I did find some pics of the 90s in Railfrieght livery it was very similar to the SNCF scheme.
http://www.freefoto.com/browse.jsp?id=23-42-0
Thanks for the photo of Buffalo Central Terminal.
CM3 Apart from the break in the afternoon, the activity at Buffalo was non-stop. I guess in 1944 it would mainly steam hauling the trains with just a few diesels and the trains very busy with the wartime traffic. If a time machine were available it would be a wonderful way to spend 24 hours.
Many thanks for the post.
LARS "well-paying commitment to excellence"
Great NYC days Thanks for those photos. I see the NYC Niagaras in the photos were fitted with smoke deflectors in the photos. I have not seen them on many other locos in North America, I wonder if the NYC was the only road to fit them to their locomotives.
We should be able to see NYC 4-8-2 ‘Mohawk' # 2933, at the St Louis Museum of Transport during the rendezvous.
TOM Many thanks for the 20-th Century Limited. It was indeed a Great Train but I bet it would be hard to get a Pennsy fan to say it was better The Broadway Limited. With those two trains running it certainly was the golden age of North American train travel.
It was sad and perhaps a sign of things to come when the very last 20-th Century Limited was delayed 9 hours by a freight derailment..
For my part on the NYC today I hope it is alright to 'borrow' your post, TOM, also from page 381 of the old Our Place.
Continuing with the New York Central, check these out!
You may want to check these out at: http://www.uncledavesbrass.com/CIL-1938.HTML for a better view.
These models are in HO scale and are from Challenger - undoubtedly fine quality, but my guess is they are very expensive. Oh yeah, interiors are detailed as well. Would surely make a fine consist behind some ALCO PAs or EMD E8s in the lightning bolt livery. Ummmmmmm. " border="0" width="15" height="15" />
Me again. TOM did you get my e-mail yesterday as the puter was playing up a bit then.
BORIS was a great help getting all the ales etc ready for tomorrow. All his dolls are fully airtight, AWK TEX and FROSTBITE are all smartened up and ready for the festivities.
So LEON, I see RUTH as left and no doubt getting ready for which hopefully will be a busy day tomorrow.
Pete
Ahoy Cap'n Tom!
Mets won! Cards are winning and the NL is off ‘n running for 2007. Yanks are in a power surge and the BoSox put it to your "defector" as they jumped all over Seattle last night.
Ah, Ruth my deAH, a radiance only matched by the sun! You surely do have a ‘way' about ya! <blush> Ah yes, a mug of hot coffee with a "jolt" if you please. Nothing to eat, just yet . . .
Pleased to report that Wolfman, our Bar Chandler is fully on board with the "way we do things" aspect to his well-paying commitment to excellence! <huh?>
New York Central SYSTEM rages on thanks to Da Boss and Shane! So, without further delay, let me provide the boys with something to support what we do ‘round here - talk and look at - CLASSIC TRAINS!
NYC 4-8-4 6025 passenger, Bellefontaine, Ohio in 1946. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
New York Central 0-8-0 switcher #7632 at Bellefontaine, Ohio in 1946. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
New York Central "Niagara" #6019 meets #2334 freight engine at Englewood, Illinois in 1948. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
New York Central 4-8-4, #2938, and 2-8-2, #1549, meet in the yard at Bellefontaine, Ohio, 1946. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
NYC 4000 series EMD E7 diesels power an evening passenger train near Bellefontaine, Ohio, 1946. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
So, what's NOT to like, huh
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.
Lots of good NYC material so far. I'm going to withhold comments, etc. until a later time as new stuff keeps showing up. Here's part 2 of my NYC in WW2 material. I put this together a loong tome ago, based on timetables, etc. from the day. Buffalo was, in many ways, the heart of the NYC as everything seemed to go through there. Enjoy - wish I had a time machine. BTW, Eric's picture was of Buffalo Central Terminal - preservationists are trying to revive the building, but that's another story for another time.
New York Central Passenger Service at Buffalo - 1944
We'll begin our day a little before midnight because of the way the NYC schedules its trains at Buffalo. It's 11:00 p.m., and we're out on the platform looking toward the west.
Train 6, the "Fifth Avenue Special," a 10:50 a.m. departure from Chicago is due at 11:00 p.m. It carries Pullmans from Chicago, Toledo and Cincinnati for New York. It picks up a 12 section/2 double bedroom Pittsburgh-New York car from train 84 at Buffalo. Train 6 is out at 11:11 p.m. and is due in New York at 7:45 the next morning.
At 11:10 p.m. train 41, the "Knickerbocker," is in the station. This is the first "big" train of the evening with four New York-St. Louis Pullmans, and two set outs at Buffalo. Here comes the switcher, so let's step back. There goes a New York-Cincinnati car for train 15; and here's a Boston-St. Louis car for train 49. Train 49's coaches from Boston join the consist here, also. The "Knickerbocker" will leave at 11:29 p.m.
Wait a minute! Here's comes an eastbound
At 11:12 p.m. train 8/98 arrives. This is the combined "Wolverine/New England Wolverine" which leaves Chicago at 12:01 p.m. and operates via the MCRR before reaching Buffalo. 8/98's arrival is coordinated with train 382, the "Toronto-Buffalo Express" which provides connecting service from Toronto. Trains 8 and 98 split at Buffalo. Let's watch the activity.
An 8 section-buffet Pullman, a 10 roomette/5 double bedroom. a 14 section, and an 8 section-drawing room-2 compartment car go to New York on train 8 along with an 8 section-drawing room-2 compartment car picked up in Detroit. 248 contributes an 8 section-4 double bedroom car which originated at Niagara Falls. A dining car and coaches round out the "Wolverine's" consist which leaves at 12:19 a.m. for a scheduled 8:40 a.m. arrival at Grand Central.
While this has been going on, train 37, the "Advance Commodore Vanderbilt" has arrived at 11:30 p.m. for a seven-minute station stop. Seven Pullmans, a diner, and some coaches are in the consist tonight.
Just before midnight comes train 15, the "Ohio State Limited" It has five through Pullmans for Cincinnati from New York, picks up another New York-Cincinnati car from train 41, picks up the Boston-Cincinnati 10 section/drawing room/2 compartment car from train 49 and adds a 14 section Buffalo-Cincinnati sleeper. 15's rolling again at 11:59 p.m.
A little later, a few tracks over is the westbound "Commodore Vanderbilt" en route to Chicago. This is train 67, all Pullman, does no work at Buffalo, and leaves at 12:34 a.m.
12:34 a.m. - another headlight - from the west. This is train 16, the "Ohio State Limited" arriving from Cleveland. It has the Cleveland-Boston and Cincinnati-Boston cars for 98 which is waiting in the station
Meanwhile, what's going on with train 8/98? Train 98 carries a Chicago-Boston Pullman and a pair of sleepers from Detroit. Train 12 has handed off two St. Louis-Boston sleepers and a pair of Cincinnati-Boston Pullmans. These are added to train 98 at Buffalo. Train 16 has a 12 section drawing room car originating in Cleveland for Boston. A dining car and coaches from St. Louis complete the train. The "New England Wolverine" rolls out at 12:50 a.m. for an 11:59 a.m. arrival at South Station.
While train 8/98 is being broken up, train 82, the "Ontarian," leaves for New York at 11:25 p.m. It carries Toronto-New York Pullmans from train 382 and originates a pair of Pullmans for New York. It's due at Grand Central at 8:00 a.m.
Train 66/28 is the "Advance Commodore Vanderbilt/New England States." It's a massive consist that pauses at Buffalo at 11:48 p.m. to pick up a 12 section/2 double bedroom car from train 88. That done, it's on its way east as quickly as possible.
Train 2 is the "Pacemaker." It doesn't stop at Buffalo.
Train 68 is the "Commodore Vanderbilt" which does no work at Buffalo.
Train 26, the "20th Century Limited," does no work at Buffalo either.
It's 1:00 a.m. and here comes train 27, the "New England States" with six through Pullmans for Chicago. It sets out a 12 section/2 double bedroom car for train 279 which will carry it south to Pittsburgh. The "States" picks up a 12 section/drawing room Buffalo-Chicago car and leaves at 1:19 a.m. for a 9:20 a.m. arrival at La Salle St.
Six minutes behind 27's departure is train 267, the "Water Level Limited," It has five New York-Chicago Pullmans, a diner, and coaches and leaves at 1:34 a.m. It'll be in Chicago at 10:00 a.m.
Train 25, the "20th Century," passes by about now, but does not stop.
There's a break until 2:15 a.m. when train 268, the "Advance Water Level Limited" rolls to a stop. This train left La Salle St Station at 4:00 p.m. It has a nine-minute station stop in Buffalo.
Its 2:35 a.m. Here's number 33, the "New England Wolverine." This has a lot sleepers from Boston en route to Detroit and Chicago, a diner, and some coaches. The switcher cuts out a 12 section/drawing room car for train 19 and adds a 12 section/drawing room Pullman to the consist. This last car originated in New York and arrived at Buffalo on Lackawanna train #5. Train 33 will travel from Buffalo via the MCRR and leaves at 3:04 a.m.
Right close by is train 17, the "Wolverine." It arrived at 2:45 a.m. with Pullmans, a diner, and coaches for Detroit, Grand Rapids and Chicago via the MCRR. It does no work at Buffalo and leaves at 2:54 a.m.
There sure is a lot happening right now. I see train 11, the "Southwestern Limited." It left New York at 7:30 p.m. and is due out of Buffalo at 3:34 a.m. en route to Cleveland. This is a monster with enough cars to delight the most dedicated Pullman fan. Here's five New York-St. Louis cars, two Boston-St. Louis cars, a New York-Cincinnati sleeper and a Boston-Cincinnati sleeper along with a diner and through coaches from New York to St. Louis and Boston to Cleveland. A look at the timetable tells me that en route, #11 handed off a pair of Boston-Cleveland sleepers and a Boston-Toronto car to train 57 at Albany. I'll see 57 in a little while.
Train 10 is the "Water Level Limited" and it's due at 320 a.m. It carries Pullmans from Chicago to New York, Chicago to Boston, Cleveland to New York, and Cleveland to Toronto. The Toronto car's cut out for train 371, and a 12-section 2 double bedroom Buffalo-Albany Pullman added. It's out at 3:35 a.m.
Train 24, the "Knickerbocker," is en route from St. Louis to New York. It leaves at 4:09 a.m.
Train 57, the "Cleveland Limited," is due about now. It's not on the timetable for Buffalo, but it stops to hand off a 10 section/drawing room/2 compartment Boston-Toronto sleeper for TH&B train 371. This was the car that started its trip on train 11.
Right behind 57 is train 21, the "Ontarian-Lake Erie" which stops at 4:50 a.m. To hand off New York-Toronto Pullmans to train 371. It leaves at 5:09 a.m. en route to Cleveland.
The switcher has to hurry to get these cars onto train 371 which leaves for Toronto at 5:01 a.m.
Here comes train 22, the venerable "Lake Shore Limited." It left Chicago at 5:30 p.m. and is here at 5:24 a.m. It does no work at Buffalo and leaves at 5:38 a.m. for New York.
The sky is somewhat lighter now as train 29, the "Niagara," rolls in at 6:45 a.m. It ends its run at Buffalo. Sleepers for Buffalo from Boston, Albany, and Montreal are set out. The passengers can sleep in until 8:00 a.m. if they want. A sleeper and coach from New York for Niagara Falls is set out for train 207. A New York-Chicago (via Niagara Falls) sleeper is set out for train 39 and a Boston-Detroit car is set out for train 35. This car will operate via St.Thomas. The coaches and diner move off to the yard as does the locomotive.
No. 18 is an unnamed train that runs with 22 as far as Cleveland where it splits from the "Lake Shore" to operate as an all-stops run between Cleveland and Buffalo. It's 6:50 a.m. and here comes train 18. It's a big one, however, as it carries sleepers to Buffalo from St. Louis, Chicago, Cincinnati, and Cleveland and coaches from Cleveland. No need to disturb the Pullman passengers as they can stay on the cars until 8:00 a.m.
Train 35 is the "Fast Mail" and it arrives at 7:20 a.m. The switcher's busy with this one. A 12 section/drawing room car is set out for Chicago. This will go west on train 151. The Boston-Detroit car from train 29 is coupled into 35's consist. That's done, and the "Fast Mail's" rolling toward Chicago at 8:04 a.m. and underway for Detroit at 8:15 a.m.
The terminal trackage is really active again. Train 59, the "Iroquois," pulls in at 7:38 a.m. with six New York-Chicago Pullmans, a New York-St. Louis sleeper, and a New York-Cincinnati car. Right behind it is train 159, the "Chicago Express," at 7:45 a.m. 159 hands off coaches to train 59 at Buffalo and 59 departs 7:50 a.m.
The "Genesee," train 63 finishes its run at Buffalo at 7:45 a.m. having left New York at 11:45 p.m. the previous night. It has six New York-Buffalo Pullmans, a New York-Toronto car for TH&B 375, and a New York-Niagara Falls car for train 211. 375 is due out at 8:45 a.m.
It's daylight now, 8:05 a.m., and here's train 58/72 the "Niagara." This one operates from Central Station in Chicago. It's spent just over 12 hours on the road getting here. The switcher's busy with this one, also. A 12 section/drawing room car from Chicago to Albany is cut out. This will be handed to train 72. Train 44 gets an 8 section-drawing room-2 compartment car. Here's two sleepers from Chicago to Buffalo that are cut out along with some coaches. The work's done and what's now listed as train 72 in the timetable departs for New York at 9:00 a.m.
At 9:29 a.m., we see No. 40, the "North Shore Limited." This has a 16 minute station stop to set out a 10 section 3 double bedroom car from Chicago.
Two minutes after 40 departs, train 38 arrives. This is the "Missourian" from Cleveland. It carries sleepers from St. Louis to New York and a 12 section-drawing room car from St. Louis to Buffalo. The Buffalo car is cut out, a 14 section Chicago-Boston car added and 38 is out at 9:54 a.m.
Train 90, the "Advance Forest City," arrives at 11:00 a.m. having left Chicago at 11:30 last night. 90 does no work at Buffalo and leaves at 11:15 a.m.
At 12:55 p.m. train 43, the "South Shore Express," arrives. It sets out a Boston-Buffalo car and departs at 1:14 p.m. It will connect at Cleveland with train 431, the "St. Louis Special."
Train 50 is next. This is the "Empire State Express." It arrives at 1:10 p.m., picks up coaches and leaves at 1:30 p.m.
There's a break in the action until a little before 5:00 p.m.
Train 42, the "Boston Express" departs at 4:55 p.m. It's due in Boston at 6:30 the next morning. It will pick up and set out other Pullmans en route, but for now it leaves Buffalo with a 10 section sleeper, coaches and a diner.
Five minutes later comes the "Easterner" which has been on the road from Chicago since 9:45 a.m. stops to pick up a 10 section/2 drawing room/2 compartment sleeper for Boston and to set out a coach from Pittsburgh. 52's moving again at 5:15 p.m.
Also at 5:00 is train 51, the "Empire State Express." It sets out coaches and is out at 5:15 p.m. for an 8:40 p.m. arrival in Cleveland.
Train 5, the "Mohawk," is in at 7:48 p.m. after a daylight run across New York. It has through Pullmans from New York to Chicago and picks up at Buffalo Pullmans for Cincinnati, St. Louis, and Chicago The "Mohawk" pulls at 8:10 p.m.
At 9:50 a.m., trains 14/46 the combined "Interstate Special/Boston Special departs LaSalle St. At 8:45 a.m. train 44, the "New York Special" leaves Central Station in Chicago. 14/46 operates via the NYC and 44 runs on the MCRR. Everything arrives at Buffalo at 940 p.m. In the meantime, TH&B train 380 from Toronto pulls in at 9:22 p.m. The switchers are busy again as train 14 terminates at Buffalo.
It hands off two Chicago-Boston cars to no. 46. One sleeper is a 12 section drawing room car and the other's an 8 section/buffet car. A 14 section Chicago to New York car goes to train 44 and a Chicago-Boston coach is passed to train 46. Train 46 gets an 8 section/drawing room/3 double bedroom car from train 44 and a Toronto-Boston car from the TH&B. Two other sleepers originate at Buffalo for train 46; one is an 8 section/5 double bedroom car for Boston and the other a Montreal-bound 10 section/buffet car which will be passed to Adirondack Division #5 at Utica.
Since it's not Saturday train 44 gets a pair of Niagara Falls-New York Pullmans. It gets one Niagara Falls car on Saturday. We understand from looking at the timetable that train 44 will have 15 Pullmans in its consist by the time it gets to New York. It will split again at Albany with one section going to Boston and the other to Grand Central. 46 is out at 10:00 p.m., and 44 rolls away ten minutes later.
Train 39 is the "North Shore Limited," due at 10:02 p.m. for a 17-minute station stop. It carries cars from New York to Chicago and picks up a 10 section/3 double bedroom Pullman at Buffalo for Chicago. It handles other sleepers en route.
It's 10:55 p.m. and we see train 49, the "Advance Knickerbocker" which has been traveling all day from Boston. It will had off a Boston-St. Louis Pullman and coach to train 41 at Buffalo and will hand off a 10 section/2 drawing room/2 compartment car to train 15 at Buffalo.
The parade's starting again, but that's enough for one day.
work safe
And some more on the "System" . . .
New York Central Railroad (NYC)
20th Century Limited
Initially Posted on Page 381 of the original Thread
Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.
Train No. 25 of the Boston & Albany Railroad, The 20th Century Limited, is seen leaving Springfield, Massachusetts on August 22, 1933.
"Drumhead" logos such as these often adorned the ends of observation cars on the 20th Century Limited.
The 20th Century Limited was an express passenger train operated by the New York Central Railroad from 1902 to 1967, during which time it would become known as a "National Institution" and the "Most Famous Train in the World." In the year of its last run, The New York Times said that it "...was known to railroad buffs for 65 years as the world's greatest train." The train traveled between Grand Central Terminal in New York City and LaSalle Street Station in Chicago, Illinois along the railroad's famed "Water Level Route". The NYC inaugurated this train as direct competition to the Pennsylvania Railroad's Broadway Limited, both lines intended for upper class as well as business travelers between the two cities. Making few station stops along the way and as few breaks for water and coal as possible, trains on this route routinely could make the 800-mile (1,300-km) journey in only fifteen and one-half hours (roughly 50 mph or 85 km/h).
Known for its speed as well as for its style, passengers walked to and from the train on a plush, crimson carpet which was rolled out at station stops and specially designed for the 20th Century Limited; thus, the "red carpet treatment" was born.
History
On its inaugural trip June 17, 1902 the train arrived in Chicago at Union Station three minutes ahead of schedule. At that time, the trip took twenty hours, cutting four hours off the time previously required. The New York Times report laid great stress on the routine nature of the trip, with no special procedures being followed and no special efforts being made to break records. It stated that there "...was no excitement along the way," and quoted a railroad official as saying "...it is a perfectly practical run and will be continued," and the engineer (William Gates) as saying "This schedule can be made without any difficulty. I can do it every time, barring accidents."
An early, pre-1920 version of the 20th Century Limited.
In its heyday, regular passengers included Theodore Roosevelt, William Jennings Bryan, Lillian Russell, "Diamond Jim" Brady, the elder J. P. Morgan, Enrico Caruso, and Nellie Melba. In 1928, its peak year, it earned revenues of $10 million and was believed to be the most profitable train in the world. Also in 1928, Erwin "Cannon Ball" Baker, who eventually became the first commissioner of NASCAR, raced the 20th Century Limited from New York to Chicago in an automobile, beating the train. In 1938 the noted industrial designer, Henry Dreyfuss, was commissioned by the New York Central to design the streamlined train sets in Art Deco style, with the locomotive and passenger cars rendered in blues and grays (the colors of the New York Central). The streamlined sets were inaugurated in 1939.
Until 1957, the train only made station stops at Grand Central Terminal and Croton-Harmon for New York-area passengers and LaSalle Street Station and Englewood for Chicago-area passengers [1]. If trains ran on schedule they would pass halfway at Buffalo Central Station. The tracks of the New York and Harlem Railroad were used from Grand Central to the Spuyten Duyvil and Port Morris Railroad, which it used to reach the New York Central's main line along the Water Level Route, north along the Hudson River and west to Buffalo, then southwest and west on the Lake Shore and Michigan Southern Railway along the south shore of Lake Erie, and north into Chicago, merging with the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad at Englewood. In case of track closures, alternate routes such as the New York and Harlem Railroad or West Shore Railroad could be used.
The 20th Century Limited (and specifically, car #10006) was used in the filming of Alfred Hitchcock's North by Northwest, released in 1959. The car was built by Pullman-Standard in 1939, and was scrapped in 1968. It carried the name Imperial State and featured 4 double bedrooms, 4 single compartments, and 2 drawing rooms (a "4-4-2"). The interior of the car as seen in the film is actually set built by MGM Studios.
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Courtesy: http://www.viarail.ca/
Wednesday's Witticism
Few things are harder to put up with than a good example.
Let's see, oil prices dropped $3 per barrel on the world markets on Monday and petrol is now at $2.67 (rounded) up at "Collusion Corner." That's a WHOPPING drop of ONE CENT! <barf>
And so it's mid-week once again as the rains in mid-continent USA arrived last evening and are continuing into Wednesday. Good place to be is right here with a mugga freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery along with a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from the Menu Board.
An interesting and impressive amount of New York Central material for our Tuesday Theme for the Day. While we surely haven't the numbers anymore, there's quality in "them thar Posts" and to all who contributed, many THANX!
Tomorrow begins a new chapter in the "life" of "Our" Place and I must be candid, Gents: there's no telling how long it will last. I'd like to share the optimism I've seen lately, but this place has limped more than not and has more droughts in gaps between Posts than many of us care to admit. About the best I can offer for this next segment is that for those of you who give a Rat's Patoot, YOU ARE the reason I'm still at this.
Noticed West Coast S Dave browsing yesterday when I checked the bottom of the trains.com Forums page . . .
CM3 at 9:53 AM yesterday: That piece of yours with the comparisons between the PRR ‘n NYC was a fine offering for our Tuesday Theme for the Day. Some really interesting "stuff," some pointed out by Lars. I too was impressed by the numbers of passengers carried by NYC in comparison to the Pennsy and the far and away greater number of passenger cars the Keystone RR had. Also, noted that the actual passenger mileage went to the NYC too. That surely speaks volumes for the "System," eh
In spite of having watched the Cardinals through their not-so-impressive games against the Mets, two out of three wins down in Houston and now with two wins under their belts in Pittsburgh, I'm still not "into" baseball. Should begin the season in mid-April and end it ALL by mid-October (WS included). I see A-Rod is on a tear with the Yanks and has continued to belt ‘em out of the park. Ain't braggin' if ya can do it, eh
Many thanx for the participation, round ‘n quarters - looking forward to part deux!
Lars at 10:08 AM ‘n 11:36 AM yesterday: And the Theme for the Day rolls along with some fine, fine "stuff" from our Manager ‘n NYC fan "supreme" - the Larsman!
Looks like some "new ones" from ya, as I don't recall seeing many of those book ‘n video covers before. The "Water Level Route" map was a good addition!
Wikipidia is an outstanding resource, but should ALWAYS be read with the "Caveat" some material is subject to elaboration, change or debate!" I like using it, but have noticed many, many areas where "suspect" material pops up. "Proceed with caution!"
You "done good," Sir with the selection of the NYC!
Pete at 3:03 PM yesterday: Mixed emotions with the "faux" appearance of 20 Fingers - another of the "mysteries" surrounding the disintegration of what used to be an active ‘n supportive Permanent Order of the Stools. Anyway, his material "lives" and you selected a Post of relevance for the Theme!
Wouldn't worry too much about Manager Lars - his bark is far worse than his bite. He shudda been a Bos'n, but wound up below decks as the "herder of the Snipes." <grin>
I think those rivalries between RRs were healthy in that the traveling public benefited more than not. Better scheduling, updated ‘n modern equipment, amenities and so forth all designed to sway the traveler. Not quite that way today, eh
Be sure to take Boris along with you when unloading those box cars. He loves to help out and does a fine job too. Just say "back" and he'll bend at the waist, back up to the door and let you pile the boxes, barrels, "whatever" on his back, then off he goes. A great "dolly," eh Surprised you weren't told about this . . . Nick taught him that, I believe! <grin>
Thanx for the "day light" visit!
Rob at 4:54 PM yesterday: All I can offer is that famous line from a guy named Bill Clinton, "I feel your pain!" Yeah, rail expansions, especially in urban environments are COSTLY. Well we all know about hindsight, eh But how about FORESIGHT Where were "these people" when a difference could've been made and for a hulluva lot less cash <arrrgggghhh> Anyway, thanx for the insights to the "future" . . . .
Methinks that while you may very well be OLD by the time these "things" happen, you'll ALWAYS care!
Appr
Good evening Captain Tom and all!!
Leon, I made it before midnight! Feels kind of unusual, but not bad. Just a cup of coffee and that lonely Cheese Danish, please!
Lars – Nice start on the New York Central Theme Day! Especially the $100 stock certificate! That was a lot of money then! Can only repeat what I said yeasterday about all railroad books and time to read them. No, I won’t. Quite a few interesting books about NYC and also nice covers! Nice map of the Water Level Route! I love maps! The last book cover, “ New York Central’s Stations and Terminals”, is showing something that looks like Buffalo Central Terminal. Am I right?
Buffalo Central Terminal.Mike – Interesting picture from the Grand Central Depot (the 2nd one), a lot of cars but very few people! I love the video clip with the steam locomotive running by! Tom – I know there is always a lot of talk when a city is looking into the possibilites of building a light rail line. I am surprised it didn’t take that long in Phoenix.Don’t tell Lars, but I added that picture of the Amtrak Hudson station since it is a part of the Water Level Route! But I wanted him to be the one to start this Theme Day!Thanks for a most interesting article on NYC! A lot to read indeed. Too sad such an old railroad is no longer around. Very nice map of the New York Central Lines! I saved a copy for myself.CM3 – 39,725 steam locomotives in the US in 1943! Just one of very interesting facts in your story about PRR and NYC during WW II!! I noticed that NYC had 10,939 track miles in 1941 and PRR had 10, 421 the same year. But PRR had so many more locomotives and cars than NYC! Was that because PRR trackage went through more hilly terrain? Pete – Congratulations!! You are absolutely correct. People at Hudson are waiting to view the X2000! Thanks for the answer about the Warships liveries! I guess they did not add the logos of DB and SNCF on those locos? Rob – Yeah, it is a nice Blimp! Too bad one can’t ride any interurbans in regular service today! Let’s hope they finally build the light rail in Toronto! Subways are extremely expensive to build.
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