"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[Trainnut484]

Hello again Tom and the gang, I'll have a cup of coffee for now. I've had my limit on pastries for now.

*** and Al, the only thing I can add on crew hotels is the Santa Fe had one in my ol' hometown. The crew haulers would shuttle them back and forth. If that was full, there was a small mom 'n' pop hotel downtown that was within walking distance from the depot.

Tom, the university I'm attending is DeVry. They are a private institution that has programs designed for students to receive their degrees quicker than the standard four years. With that, I do know of misintentions of today's technology. Some are more serious than copying pictures. I've seen published photos in books where the captions says "so-and-so's collection," but not the name of the photographer. I've recognized some photos taken by people I know that were published in that distasteful matter. The proper way is to write "photographer unknown.....so-and-so's collection." Some may disagree, but it is the proper, legal (if copyrighted), and most respected way of publishing photos.

Okay I'm a little off-topic here...Boris ring the ding-a-ling-thing..Round for the house on ME.

Russell

[BudKarr]

Good Day Gentlemen,

I have returned and feel that a bit of explanation is in order. The thing I do to pay the bills has me on a rather short string. They call, I go. The calls have been coming rather frequently. I am still interested in your rendezvous in Toronto and also that trip to Hudson Bay. Timing of course will determine my ability to join you.

Thank you to all who provided some elaboration on the APT. Although I am now not so sure what the question was!

Caveat: This was begun nearly two weeks ago. Interruptions have prevented me from completing this endeavor in a timely fashion.

Original lead in:

I wi***o commend our Proprietor and barkeep once again for the outstanding efforts put forth in keeping us all reading about Classic Trains. The fallen flags and nostalgia pieces (as you refer to them) are very captivating and in keeping with the premise you put forth for us all. The contributions, particularly from CM3 and others, are also enlightening, educational and reminiscent of days gone by. Thank you for sharing them with us. I should also mentioned Sir Nick in West Wales and the information coming from that quarter. Truly makes this an international place of interest. Thank you as well.

Sad to say that one of your number is a rank ignoramus when it comes to recognition of not only your efforts, but those of others. With all of the postings that have been made and his only reference is to a URL, well that speaks volumes. Are you positive this person really deserves the honor bestowed upon him? I for one applaud your policy of not rewarding bad behavior.

Now, I had put together one of those submissions that took me quite a bit of time, only to have it gobbled up by those gremlins you have referred to. I had it in my word processor as well, but erased it once I thought the posting went through. Unfortunately, they are both now in the ether, so to speak. Gad zooks, is the phrase that comes to mind.

Another go is in order.

The endeavor:

A Man Named Pullman

There are volumes that have been written about George Mortimer Pullman (1831-1897) and the long lasting contributions his innovativeness of the railroad car and management of them made to North American railroading. Some highlights are in order:

(1) Born into a Brockton, NY family of farmers and mechanics in 1831, it is appropriate to state that he was NOT the inventor of the sleeping car. That distinction, according to history, goes to the Cumberland Valley Railroad, who began operation of those types of cars several years before Pullman’s birth.

(2) His first venture into the adult world was as a cabinet maker, turned contractor. The latter brought him to Chicago where he met a man named Benjamin Field, who would become a long time partner and associate in the rail car management, design and operation business.

(3) The first railroad to adopt the Pullman-Field approach to sleeping cars was the Chicago, Alton & St. Louis Railroad in 1859 when they accepted the offer to have two of their coaches remodeled into sleepers.

(4) In 1865, the largest and most costly car of the day was built by Pullman himself, appropriately named the Pioneer for the westward expansion of the railroads to the Pacific Coast. This car had the distinction of costing $20 thousand, about 5 times the cost of a coach, had 16 wheels, and 12 sections of sleeper units. IT was longer, wider and higher than the standard coaches of the day. In fact the Pioneer was used in President Lincoln’s funeral consist and required the stations along the way to make structural changes to their platforms in order to accommodate the passing train! The Pioneer was credited with having the first fold down berths, and while perhaps not the most luxurious in design and accommodations, was at least as well appointed.

(5) By the end of 1866, every major railroad serving Chicago signed on the Pullman-Field sleeping car operation. Field decided that Pullman was better off on his own, and stepped aside.

(6) Early in the 1870s, 800 of Pullman’s cars operated over 30,00 miles of track in an association between his company and the ACL, CRI&P, DL&W, MP, NP, AT&SF and SP. It was to be that Pullman’s “Empire” would buy up the contracts of the association railroads, thereby providing him with the sole access desired.

(7) Upon his untimely death in 1897, the heirs of the family took over and moved forward with the innovations many take for granted even to this day:

(a) PULLMAN 12-1: Usually this heavyweight trailed the streamlined consist – with the exception of a heavyweight lounge car midway in the string. The car was a 12 section, 1 drawing room Pullman rather common back in the 40’s.

(b) PULLMAN SECTION SLEEPER: Provided the most basic in terms of sleeping accommodations for the first class traveler. This arrangement may be posed an awkward situation for some, as complete strangers wound up sharing the unit. The protocol was passengers who purchased the upper-berths were obliged to sit in the rearward facing seats during daytime travel, whereas the lower berths entitled the passengers to the forward facing ones. The upper berth was without windows, and was accessed by a ladder. Heavy, dark curtains provided privacy for the sleepers in each unit.

(c) THE ROOMETTE: A 1937 innovation provided the privacy and space demanded by the traveling public. These were smaller than double bedrooms, but much more affordable for the single traveler. By day, there was a wide, plush seat with a toilet facility. At night, the bed folded out of the wall, covering the toilet, but gave a window level, wall to wall, bed. This accommodation became the most popular following the end of WWII.

(d) THE DOUBLE BEDROOM: This was the choice for traveling couples. With two beds, two collapsible day chairs and a fully accessible toilet (at all times), a cozy environment was provided for the train travelers. There were two types: (1) a couch that folded into a bed, crosswise to the rails, with a second bed folded down from the ceiling. (2) Then there were the fold down bunks parallel to the rails.

(e) MASTER BEDROOM: Some referred to this as a “cousin” to the Drawing Room. Both featured three beds, but the difference was the fully enclosed shower in the Master Bedroom. The bunk beds were perpendicular to the rails, whereas the third bed was at window level and parallel to them.

(f) PULLMAN RESTAURANT CAR: In the 1930s, Pullman converted many heavyweights into “Parlour – restaurant” or “restaurant-sleeper” cars. This was done to supplement the operating railroad’s usually full dining cars. Pullman’s own employees were assigned to these cars and they quickly became the “car of choice” for Pullman travelers. Elegance in dining was commonplace at these tables.

(8) THE END: The Pullman Company ceased collecting money and staffing cars after December 31, 1968. Shortly thereafter the maintenance for the cars ended, thereby leaving the host railroads with a choice: staff them on their own, or discontinue the sleepers.

POST SCRIPT: There is so much not said within this submission about this fine company. Those who created it, nurtured it and operated it have a place in railroad lore, just as well as those who staffed and maintained those wonderful Pullmans of days gone by.

BK

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #13

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Louisville and Nashville (L&N) from an advertisement in Classic American Trains


The NEW Crescent
A GRAND NEW TRAIN WITH A GRAND OLD NAME

In Daily Service between New Orleans, Atlanta, Washington and New York

Recommend and Sell the Year’s Finest Travel Packge

STREAMLINED, STAINLESS STEEL CARS
The Crescent is new from end to end. It’s the last word in streamliners. all cars are constructed of stainless steel and offer latest comfort and safety features.

ALL-PRIVATE-ROOM SLEEPERS
A selection of five different type private rooms – new 3-bed master room with shower and individual radio, drawing room, bedroom en suite, bedroom, and roomette. Each offers private lavatory, clothes closet, ice water and individually controlled lighting, heating and air conditioning.

LOUNGE AND OBSERVATION CARS
The finest atmosphere is found in the mid-train club lounge and the luxurious observation car. Comfortable chairs, music and convenient game or writing tables offer a “club on wheels” for rest and relaxation.

NOTHING FINER IN DINERS
The Crescent diners serve Southern cooking at is best. Every service to make every meal a travel treat has been provided – even to telephone communication between sleeping cars and diners.

COACH SERVICE
De luxe coaches with individual reclining seats are operated between New Orleans and Atlanta with connecting service beyond.

LOUISVILLE AND NASHVILLE RAILROAD


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[coalminer3]

Good Afternoon All: Coffee please, round for the hosue and more for the jukebox. Interesting weather here today - snow, sleet, snain and snog (aks mixed precip.) I know, but work occupied things earlier this a.m.

Now you are doing L&N. I spent several yrs in Nashville back before the L&N vanished. Lots of stuff in the notebooks there, for sure. You may have seen the CSX engine "Col. Phil Hooper." He was a dear friend and spent a great deal of time intorducing me to the L&N and many folks who worked for that road.

Here are some L&N stories and a bit of radio history as well.

The following is an L&N story which may or may not be true. The engineer that told it to me did enjoy a good yarn over a tall one. Anyway it involves a set of L&N F units which were on their way from Nashville to Birmingham with a freight train. The road twists and turns on its way to Alabama and, you guessed it, the train came around a curve and there was a semi sitting on a grade crossing.

The engineer dumped the air and did a classic duck and cover. The next thing he knew, the engines passed through the trailer and the engineer found he couldn't move when the crashing noises stopped. It turns out that he had hit a trailer full of golf balls. According to my buddy, the engineer in question never bought another golf ball in his life. This is similar to two other stories I heard, one on the Central Vermont, and one on the L&N where a train hit a trailer load of pink paint. You get the idea.

I had many enjoyable rides on the 'Pan American."

Those of you that are devotees of country music are familiar with "Clear Station 650 - WSM - Home of the Grand Ole Opry." The WSM transmitter was (is) just south of Nashville and for years they broadcast the whistle of the "Pan" as it passed by the transmitter. This was done live, according to an old head I knew at WSM, and by recording when the train was late (which was not very often).

Now we'll wind up with one more "Pan" story which I know is true because I was there. The Pan used to have a baggage car in the old sense of the word in that it carried just about everything you could think of including remains going home to their final rest. One evening in Nashville, the baggage man (and several others) had a tough time wrestling a casket into the baggage car. Anyway, the casket was inside and the engineer looked back along the train, caught the highball from the conductor and got ready to pull. Two short "toots" and a pair of L&N E8s leaned into their train and started to move. They hadn't one very far when I heard all of this commotion from in the baggage car, as the baggage man was creatively stringing words together. "Stop the !@#$ train! Stop the !@#$ train! I ain't goin' to Birmingham with no !@#$ stiff!" So much uproar in so little space........

work safe

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

GREAT BRITAIN PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #4 from multiple sources

Here’s something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with
Classic Trains, this time from Great Britain! Check this 1935 poster out!

. . . . . . . . . .”THE SILVER JUBILEE” . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . SILVER LINK 4-6-2 #2509 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

BRITAINS FIRST STREAMLINE TRAIN

NEWCASTLE AND LONDON IN 4 HOURS

AVERAGE THROUGHOUT SPEED 67.0 M.P.H.

Weekdays (Saturdays excepted) from 30th. September 1935

NEWCASTLE - - dep am 10.0 ………. KING’s CROSS - - dep pm 5.30
DARLINGTON - - - - - - - - 10.42 ………DARLINGTON - - - - arr - - - 8.48
KING’S CROSS – arr pm 2.0 ……….. NEWCASTLE - - - - - - - - - - 9.30

. . . . . . . . . .Connecting trains serve Tyneside and Tees-side . . . . . . . . .

SUPPLEMENTARY FARES: First Class 5/- Third Class 3/-

LONDON & NORTHEASTERN RAILWAY


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[siberianmo]

G’day!

Looks like a few responses are in order on this rather pleasant Tuesday here in mid-continent USA ….. temps in the high 50’s, blue skies with white clouds and hardly any breeze a’tall. Nice. Oh [yeah] gasoline up at the “Collusion Corner” is $2.45 (rounded).

Acknowledgements for Trainnut 484 Russel – BudKarr BK – coalminer3:

Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 10:36:11

First off – thanx for the round! Had to turn back a few of ‘em yesterday for lack of business! Today we’ve got a few at the bar who will appreciate your generosity! [tup]

Hey! I understand where you are comin’ from regarding the “stuff” going on regarding the use of materials on the Internet. Chalk it up to “unintended consequences” of the technology. Just consider the fact that anyone can and does use the resources. From the irresponsible to the responsible, from the child to senior citizen, from the …….. oh, you get the point! The situation cannot be controlled – never was thought out fully in that regard. For all the “good” we make of its use, there are many “downsides” too. But, for what we do ‘round here, can’t be beat, eh [?] [swg]

Appreciate your 2nd Post and hope that you can keep us in your “break time” more often than not.

BudKarr BK Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 10:53:28

What’s to say about that Post of yours, other than: Tweeeeeeeet, Tweeeeeeeet! Rules violations! Rules violations! Rules #1 and #2 Failure to greet the barkeep AND order a drink! Boris Ring it TWICE – drinks on BK! [swg]

That was quite a run down on the Pullman story and I hope that our guys don’t pass this one by. Really well done and appreciated! [tup] You’re becoming more ‘n more the Classic Trains Aficionado! [yeah][wow][tup]

Accounts of the Classics just isn’t complete without Pullman being mentioned and yours is a grand tribute. Thanx!

Hope we can visit with you a bit more frequently ‘round here. As you may know, we’ve been in a drought of sorts.

Your commentary regarding one of our “number” not being very considerate wasn’t lost on me. However, in this life we come across all kinds – some are just very into and unto themselves – centric, if you will. He probably doesn’t do these things deliberately, but does them nonetheless. Happens, as they say. I think I’ve said this more than a few times – I’d be plainly embarrassed to be so obvious in my ignorance – and I don’t embarrass that easily! [swg]

coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 14:20:12

G’day to you Sir! Thought perhaps you “skipped” us this fine day. Was wonderin’, did you not catch the Fallen Flag NP Post and NOSTALGIA piece from yesterday [?] I ask because two Posts were made about an hour after the first “flag” Post, with no comment. That makes me wonder what the “delay” might be for those logging on.

Good train stories – buried in golf balls would be a better choice over drowning in pink paint! Neither is a good choice, mind ya – but I’d take the former. Never cared for golf anyway, actually – rather watch paint dry! [swg]

Can proudly state that I’ve visited the “Opry” twice in my life – once at the original location and the other at its present spot. Second time was a special show for a convention that I was at. What a great event and what a bunch of “headliners” for that one. No disappointments – ever while in Nashville, USA! Howwwwwwwwwwwdy!

Never rode the L&N but used to watch ‘em while visiting with family in Cincinnati. Lots of railroadin’ in that town back when the kids were little, visiting the grandparents. Good memories – and the baseball team wasn’t bad either! Big Red Machine when they were in their teens. Prior to that, some competitive line ups for sure. Old Crosley Field was an absolute joy to take in a game. “Big Klu” knocking the socks off the ball – ah yes, Cincy – beer, baseball, chili and more beer! [swg]

Ah, the stories we can tell, eh [?] At the time some of ‘em were “side splitters” for sure. That accounting of the casket in the baggage car brings to mind a quickie – but not of trains – of burials at sea. In one instance the guy wouldn’t sink. The wrapped body in the bag, with weights, just floated. Here we were about a thousand miles off the coast and the body seemed to just gently roll with the swells. Had to lower a boat, send the guys out with boat hooks, to “help” the thing go down by punching some holes in what turned out to be a rather water tight bag! Second one involved spreading ashes of the deceased over a specific latitude and longitude. Well whoever had the “con” screwed up, for when the urn was opened and the ashes “spread” they blew back all over the guys standing in “honor” in their white uniforms! Hate it when things like that happen! [swg]

Thanx for the round – Boris do your thing! – and of course those ever luvin’ quarters for our Wurlitzer!

Catch ya later!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Evening Tom and the rest of the gang. Guess I'll start with a CR and better set up a round for the house.

Enjoyed the L&N fallen flag write up and also the Crescent highlights. Few people realise that the Crescent was a joint operation of the Southern, PRR, L&N, A&WP and WofA. The postwar streamlined Crescent was all stainless steel and their were four train sets necessary for daily operation between New York and New Orleans. The train was actually two very distinct trains for many years. Between New York and Atlanta the train was all Pullman and between Atlanta and New Orleans coaches were added. The Crescent has the distinction of operating the only Master room in the Southestern United States. And being a streaml;ined all Pullman train it was part of a very distinct group of trains in the US. The streamlined All Pullman trains, Twentieth Century Limited, Broadway Limited, General, Comodore Vanderbilt, Spirit Of St. Louis, Liberty Limited, Pittsburgher, Chief, Super Chief, Panama Limited, Florida Special, Capitol Limited, City of Los Angeles, Treasure Island Special, Arizona Limited, Lark, Cascade and San Francisco Overland. Just recalling all of them from memory I don't think I have forgotten any.
The Crescent and the Florida Special were the only two All Pullman streamliners in the southest, but the Crescent was the only one regularly operated with a Master Room. Although the PRR did assign two Observations for at least one winter to the Florida Special that were equipped with Master Rooms.
Well that is about enough from me for the I still have one mare day of classes then take my fianl exam in two weeks. After that I should be able to get back to Our Place more often until Tax Season beginning in January.
The Crescent was a truly fine train and one of America.s finest. I personally had the pleasure of riding it once as a Southern train and later as the Southern Crescent and still later as an Amtrak train.

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Al

Once again you've saved the day! No Posts from anyone for nearly 6 hours in "prime time." Don't really know what to make of this. Saw two of our guys online at this thread, doing the "Phantom Browse" for quite awhile - no Posts. Hmmmmmm.

Was just about to close up the joint when I saw your Post ... thanx for the round - no point in ringing the bell, but I'll have one! [tup]

I traveled aboard Southern Railway from Mobile to NYC back in 1950. Haven't the foggiest what the name of the train was, but it was a fine trip for a 12 year old. I recall the observation lounge, diner and of course the bedroom. Was far too young to recall the details, but it was train riding in "sytle" aboard the stainless steel gleeming train. I do remember how "cool" it looked.

Appreciate the elaboration on the roads we're discussing. That's the idea! Thought for sure you'd mention BK's contribution on the Pullman Company. That was a fine Post.

I'm in hopes that we'll see some of the regulars pick up the slack 'round here. Without the dependable ones, we've found ourselves in quite a funk, in spite of the efforts of a few to keep things movin' along. I'm beginning to wear thin ......

Leon the Night Man has the bar and we are closing at midngiht - count on it!

Looks like the White Sox are giving the Astros "fits" in the World Series - just as many figured they would, including me. One hulluva team this year, for sure.

Nite ... .[zzz]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

Still on the New England theme, a pint of Golden Spike Ale from the Union Station Brewery Provedence please.

Thanks for the kind words TOM TED RUSSELL AND ROB its good to be back [tup].
Hopefully I will have some photos from the wifes digital camera. I am still in the stone age with a 35mm.

We were based in Providence on the trip to Boston we were hauled by amtrak electric locos numbered in the 900s I, m afraid I know little about them also the ACELA units were working and seemed to be on time.In Boston we walked the Freedom Trail. and finished up at the USS Constitution the oldest commissioned warship in the world, with a mainmast height of 220ft. Not a classic train but a sight well worth seeing [yeah].
A [?] for you TOM do you know which Church in England is the only one allowed to fly the Royal Navy Ensign.(something I was told in Boston).

One Classic train we did get to was theVALLEY RAILROAD in Essex Conn.They have a good operation going with a steam train ride to Chester Port which connects with a boat for a cruise along the Connecticut River then steam back to Essex.
The loco was an ex Birmingham & Alabama(if I heard correctly). It was built by ALCO in 1928 a 2-8-0 works # 65188.The car we were in was ex Delaware& Lakawanna with reverseable seats.

In Providence the local downtown bus service is worked by busses made to look like Trolleys [%-)]. They pass through a Bus Only tunnel dated 1912 was this part of a real trolley system once[?].
A week was no where near enough time and TED the wife said the seafood was wonderful.

BK The PULLMAN name was a byword for luxury train travel my side of the pond too.
Thanks for a great piece. I am trying to picture a 16 wheeled car[wow]

TOM and CM3 thanks for the flag and info on the L&N a line I knew little about. [tup]

Another great GB nostalia on the A4,locos 70th birthday. The preseved A4 named after the locos designer SIR NIGEL GRESLEY is nearly ready to steam again. I,ll try to find out a bit more on the Silver Jubilee service for tomorrow.

Well I had better have a pint for the road then [zzz] PETE.

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon. Let Tom know that I have procured a new shipment of CR of which I will partake of one.

Tom As always a nice choice of fallen flags. The L&N has sparked some interesting info from the boys as well. I like to think of them as the classic gritty coal hauler. Staffed by never say die alco locomotives. I've seen many a nice shot of their RS3's and C420's pulling for all that they were worth. swetting the assets as they say[tup]

hopefully Sir nick and Pete will pick up on your latest Brit rail nostalgia piece. I love hearing more info from those who lived it. [tup]

With so many of your storeis left to be told next may in Toronto I think we may need a week to do them all justice.[swg] More and more I'm looking forward to them.

CM3 Glad you poped by today as well, again more thoughtfull insightfull and enjoyable personal tidbits.I can't imagine what the rain of golf balls could have sounded like on the roof of the F unit. I know having waited out a thundershower inside one of the barns at the museum and knowing the volume of that which was just rain on a tin roof.The story of the body in the baggage card seems appropriate for this time of year as well. I'm sure that there are many other similar stories from the other railways out there as well. Several city streetcar systems operated funeral cars, usually well appointed with wing chairs for the families. I beleave that the orange county museum has a funeral trolley from the Los Angelas street railway on their property. The only similar cars here in Canada were operated by the Montreal tramway company. They had a spur built into the Hawthorndale cemetary !

BK What can I say. An absolutley wonderfull, and detailed post. [tup][:)] A perfect piece to work with our classic frame of mind here. I'm glad that you went so far as to explain the differences between the various sleeper cars. I really didn't know what the differences were between the 12-1's or roomettes lets say. So thank-you fior shedding some light on the topic for me [bow]

Ted I haven't taken the peek at your new disc's yet. I was uploading some shots of my layout and a few more new museum shots. Have a peek on page 8 and see what you think. I'm looking forward to seeing your classic rolling stock. You can't say enough about them really, they were built to last! I think that I may dress up for the beasts wedding birthday celebration as well. I think I'll some as a vampire.hmmm wonder where I got that idea [?]

Russell Glad that you made it back in as well. Like Tom I can understand your frustration at picture posting. I'm always a bit uneasy about it myself but I like to think that the vast majority of us can and will respect others property intellectual or otherwise. ( probably small town Ontario talking there ) Pictures do say a thousand words.

Were you a participant in the modelling show / contest you mentioned. If so how did you fare [?]


Well gentleman I'm caught up now so I'maway to my crypt for now.MWA HA HA HA. I vant to read about more trains


Haf a good nite Rob

[trolleyboy]

I'm back again with a bit of rail information.since BK so expertly wove us the story of Pullman , I thought that I would try to do likewise ( most likely not quite as eloquantly )

The Nearside Car A Classic Juice tech story



Since the beginning of public transportation, fare collection and how it was handled has always been a determining factor of car design.When horse cars were first introduced the driver handled the horses and the conductor collected the fares from the passengers as they entered the rear of the car and exited at the front. This is ( was known) as pay as you enter. ( PAYE )

This continued into the electrification of the street railways.The conductor would signakl the stop and starts for the motorman via bell signals.Howerevr because passengers entered at the rear of the car the motorman did not always have a clear view of them and accidents were unfortunatly common as the motorman would start off and passengers would grab for a handrail etc miss and fall. This resulted in injuries sometimes deaths and lawsuits against the company.

To combat these problems and lawsuits, an English born Thomas E. Mitten ( who was the acting chairman of the executive commitee of Philladelphia Rapid Transit, initiated and oversaw the design of a new type of car.This car was ultimatly named the "Nearside" car.Passengers boarded and departed through the front doors on these cars, this gave the motorman much better control. The conductor sat behind the motorman and called out street names and destinations as well as still collecting the fairs and issuing the transfers.Passengers could still exit the car via the back doors if they wished

In the days before the Nearsides the car would pull through the intersection to line up the back doors for the passengers to board. So they stopped on the farside of the intersection. Mitten's design called for the passengers to enter at the front, so the cars stopped on the "near" side of the intersection, hence the name.

For political reasons trhe first cars of this design were built by J. G . Brill of Philladelphia. Both cars were sent to Buffalo and tested there for assesment as Buffalo's street railway was once served by Mitten as General manager. The first prototypes #6000 and 6001 were built in 1912.

The standard specs for these cars was as follows 45' 6" in length over the anticlimbers.width of 8' 5" ,top of the rail to top of the roof 12' 0". The original design called for the use of Brill's maximum traction truck 33" driving ( powered ) wheels and the second axel with 22" non powered. IN typical Brill fashion the cars had a high arched roof for summer time ventilation.

The Brill records show that slightly more than 2000 of these casr were built. Used by Buffalo,Chicago,Philladelphia,Atlantic City ,and Lincoln Nebraska. One of these cars was made for Canada for the British Columbia Electric Railway ( BCE ) in Vancouver. It was number 501 and was to be the prototype no more were ordered however. Philly not supprisingly had the largest fleet numbering 1500 cars

The Nearside was the first of two major fare collection induced design changes for streetcars. the next happening in 1920 by peter Witt of Cleveland. That story will come later.

Rob

[siberianmo]

WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

G’day! Mid-week and time for a good start to the day – you’re at the right place! Whatillyahave [?]

Info for the Day:

(1) Today is Pike Perspectives Day! Narratives and track diagrams welcome!

(2) Thursday is Fish ‘n Chips Nite along with Nick’s Picks!

(3) Friday is Pizza Nite as well as Steak ‘n Fries Nite!

(4) Saturday is ENCORE Day!

(5) Sunday is Photo Posting Day!

INDEX Monday’s only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 05:53:10 (146) Tuesday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 05:56:19 (146) Fallen Flag L&N

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 07:58:36 (146) reply to pwolfe & trolleyboy, etc.

(4) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 08:43:48 (146)

(5) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 09:12:18 (146) He’s baaaaaaaaack!

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 09:48:36 (146) reply to Theodorebear & Trainnut484, etc.

(7) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 10:36:11 (146)

(8) BudKarr BK Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 10:53:28 (146) PULLMAN Co.

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 12:09:55 (146) NOSTALGIA #13 Ad L&N

(10) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 14:20:12 (146)

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 14:24:35 (146) GB NOSTALGIA #4 – Ad Silver Jubilee

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 15:10:07 (146) reply to Trainnut484 – BudKarr – coalminer3, etc.

(13) passengerfan Al Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 21:00:00 (146)

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 21:40:29 (146) reply to passengerfan

(15) pwolfe Pete Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 22:39:42 (146) Inclusive Post!

(16) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 22:59:55 (146) Inclusive Post!

(17) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 23:42:31 (146) Classic Juice #6 The Nearside Car

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Wabash

Headquarters: St. Louis, MO

Mileage in 1950: 2,393

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 319

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 14,240
Passenger cars: 126

Principal routes in 1950:

Buffalo, NY-Detroit, MI-Fort Wayne, IN-Decatur, IL-Springfield, IL-Moberly, MO-Kansas City, MO
Chicago-Decatur-St. Louis (followed Buffalo-KC Line Bement-Decatur)
St. Louis-Moberly, MO-Des Moines, IA
Brunswick, MO-Council Bluffs, IA
Toledo, OH-Chicago
Bluffs, IL-Keokuk, IA

Passenger trains of note:

Banner Blue (Chicago-St. Louis)
Blue Bird Chicago-St. Louis)
City of Kansas City (St. Louis-Kansas City)
City of St. Louis (St. Louis-Denver-Cheyenne-Los Angeles)
Des Moines Limited (St. Louis-Des Moines)
Detroit Arrow (Chicago-Detroit)
Detroit Limited (St. Louis-Detroit)
Kansas City Express (St. Louis-Kansas City)
Midnight Limited (St. Louis-Kansas City)
Omaha Limited (St. Louis-Omaha)
Pacific Coast Special (St. Louis-Pacific Coast points)
Red Bird (Chicago-Detroit)
St. Louis Limited (Detroit-St. Louis)
St. Louis Limited (Des Moines & Omaha-St. Louis)
St. Louis Special (Kansas City-St. Louis)
The Midnight (Chicago-St. Louis)
“Wabash Cannon Ball” (St. Louis-Detroit)

Of note: Chicago-Detroit service by PRR between Chicago-Fort Wayne; through trains west of Kansas City handled by UP

WABASH CANNONBALL
(unknown author & date)

From the great Atlantic ocean to the wide Pacific shore
From the green ol' Smoky mountains to the south lands by the shore She's mighty tall and handsome and she's known quite well by all
She's the regular combination on the Wabash Cannonball
Listen to the jingle, the rumble and the roar
As she glides along the woodland through the hills and by the shore
Hear the mighty rush of the engine, hear the lonesome hoboes call
You're traveling through the jungles on the Wabash Cannonball
Our eastern states are dandy, so the people always say
From New York to St. Louis with Chicago by the way
From the hills of Minnesota where the rippling waters fall
No changes can be taken on the Wabash Cannonball
Now here's to Daddy Claxton, may his name forever stand
And always be remembered through the courts throughout the land
His earthly race is over, now the curtains round him fall
He’ll be carried home to Glory on the Wabash Cannonball!

. . . . . and another version!

From the great Atlantic Ocean
To the wide Pacific shore,
From sunny California
To ice-bound Labrador,
She's mighty tall and handsome,
She's known quite well by all,
She's the 'boes' accomodation
On the Wabash Cannonball
Chorus:
From the great Atlantic ocean
To the wide Pacific shore
From the green ol' Smoky mountains
To the south lands by the shore
She's mighty tall and handsome
And she's known quite well by all
She's the regular combination
On the Wabash Cannonball

Chorus:
Listen to the jingle,
The rumble and the roar,
As she glides along the woodlands,
Through hills and by the shore
Hear the mighty rush of the engine,
Hear those lonesome hoboes squawl,
While traveling through the jungle
On the Wabash Cannonball

This train, she runs to Memphis,
Mattoon, and Mexico,
She rolls through East St. Louis
And she never does it slow,
As she flies through Colorado,
She gives an awful squawl,
They tell her by her whistle
The Wabash Cannonball
Chorus:
Our eastern states are dandy,
So the people always say,
From New York to St. Louis
And Chicago by the way,
From the hills of Minnesota
Where the rippling waters fall,
No changes can be taken
On the Wabash Cannonball
Chorus:

Now here's to Boston Blackey,
May his name forever stand,
And always be remembered
By the 'boes throughout the land,
His earthly days are over
And the curtains 'round him fall,
We'll carry him home to Victory
On the Wabash Cannonball
Chorus:


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G’day!

A better day yesterday than the day before, however – we’re still in the doldrums ‘round here. We’re not getting the necessary Posts during the daylight hours in order to keep us “up” and runnin’. Just check the numbers out on the past SUMMARIES; the times and people Posting tell the story. There was nearly 6 hours of “down time” during what should have been “peak” interest. We can do far better ….

Having said that, some appreciation is in order for those who do Post and do so regularly. [tup][tup][tup]

I’d say the Bell Ringer for yesterday was the Post by BudKarr on the Pullman Company. [yeah][wow][tup] Good job!s

Acknowledgements for pwolfe Pete & trolleyboy Rob:

pwolfe Pete Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 22:39:42

Your tales from New England, particularly Boston, bring to mind some similar ventures a few decades ago. Visiting the USS Constitution was a treat, even met the Commanding Officer – U.S. Navy Lieutenant Commander (name escapes me). She goes to “sea” once a year and that is to turn her ‘round. Quite a history there indeed.

Can’t help with the Acela or those electrics, for I haven’t traveled them.

Check out this URL regarding your question on the Royal Navy Ensign displayed at a church in England: http://atlasgeo.span.ch/fotw/flags/gb-en_nf.html

So, you may find that the anecdotal stuff the New Englanders are passin’ about may be a bit thin. [swg]

PULLMAN in Great Britain would be something we’d all like to hear about. Perhaps you can put something together for us! [?] [tup]

Sorry, Pete but we accommodate most beer calls ‘round here, except for micro-brews. There have been a couple of exceptions, but we stick to the “main stream” as much as possible. Our distributor is workin’ overtime to ensure that we have adequate supplies of draught and bottled brews from all corners …… [swg]

I had hoped that GB Nostalgia piece would “draw you out” during daylight. I’m runnin’ outta bait! <grin> The A4 loco was a drawing on the poster, looked rather “boxy” with the streamline effect. What say you [?]

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 22:59:55

Stories being told at our Rendezvous in Toronto! Well, I certainly hope so – those evenin’ get togethers should provide some great interaction and I too am looking forward to them. Now if we could only hear what is happenin’ with Nick [C=:-)]……. [%-)][%-)][%-)]

It appears as if some of us are actually planning to “come as we are” to the Boris Bash Halloween Party! [swg] Figured you’d like that idea, Count Trolleyboy

I think your new formatting is really workin’ quite well – THANX! [tup][tup] and the always inclusive nature of your Posts makes them even more worth the read! [yeah]

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 23:42:31

What an interesting Post on the Nearside Car. Now that’s something I hope the guys will not let just sit in the Ether, as so very many of the submissions seem to do. One day I’m going to scroll back, back and back in order to try and select those Posts deserving special recognition – not for an “award,” but for inclusion within an Index or something similar. When I think of the ‘stuff’ that has been shared by passengerfan Al – coalminer3 CM3 – and now, BudKarr BK, and of course others, it seems like a shame not to “remind” one and all of where to look in order to find them. [yeah] Something ELSE for me to do! [swg]

I suppose it’s hindsight being 20/20, but the idea of boarding backasswards never did make any sense to me. Wonder what in the world they were thinking (or NOT) way back when [?]

Nice job, Rob – I’ve added this to the Classic Juice Index for Monday.

Okay – time to get about the day for me. I’m sticking to my plan of checking back about every 4 hours or so. Oh yes, there will be a NOSTALGIA piece comin’ this afternoon ……..

So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[coalminer3]

Good Morning All: Coffee please, round for the house and more for the jukebox. Let's start with Roy Acuff's "Wabash Cannonball," and then we'll follow it with some Ralph Stanley and the Clinch Mountain Boys.

Nasty here this a.m.; cold and rainy but at least we have power compared to our brethren to the south with Wilma and our friends to the north with a too early in the season snowstorm which took down the power grid from northern Fayette County up into Monongalia Cty. Gas here is $2.49/gallon this a.m. at my local truck stop.

My, my there have been some interesting posts over the past few days. Herewith some replies/comments.

Trainnut 484: The plow and cab were yellow/blue lettering C&O - not a kitty cat in sight. I have heard that there is still one C&O-painted unit roaming the system but cannot verify that; I think it's a hybrid paint scheme, however, with C&O on the long hood and CSX on the front.

Buddkar: George M. was a fascinating figure. Your post was most interesting - the NYC had roomettes on the 1938 version of the 20th Century. Their ad copy said, "The roomette affords privacy and plenty of room in which to move around before retiring for the night and includes besides in-a-wall bed, a clothes locker, lavatory, and toilet."

Re the Northern Pacific: I believe it was the Minnesota Historical Society that published a book on NP dining car service awhile back (with recipes). The most interesting part of the book was a description of a trip from Chicago west and back again which focused on the daily activities of the dining car crew. Tell Boris that there's a recipe for fruitcake in the book that "serves 50." It calls for liberal use of rum (AWK should like that).

Cincinnati - So much of that has changed over the years, espcially across the river at places such as Stevens and DeCoursey. Also, the C&O up and over Cheviot is long gone. That was one of the more interesting sections of the old C&O.

As for the Big Red Machine - no comment, although I think Joe Morgan is by far the best baseball analyst in captivity. I remember the 1975 "Worlds Serious" when they played the Red Sox and seeing Morgan with that arm twitch when he was batting. As for Crosley Field, let's not forget the laundry behind the outfield wall.

The L&N ran into Cincinnati Union Station and I used to ride the Pan up there failry regularly. The Pan afforded a good connection to the N&W "Pochontas" which afforded a roomette and breakfast for $9.00 more than a coach seat. The "Pocahontas" had an ex Wabash dome car which allowed early morning viewing of the WV coalfields. Somewhere, I have color shots I took from that dome.

Providence - since our propritor quoted Popeye, I will too and say "I was borned there." Providence had an extensive trolley system. My mother who would ride on anything (including Cunard on the North Atlantic in winter) said the only time she ever got sick on any conveyance was during long trolley rides around Providence to visit family and friends - she said it seemed to take forever and she had her head out the window most of the way.

The trolleys were later replaced by trackless trolleys and buses. The main transfer point was in front of Union Station. BTW. the first thing you saw as you came oit of the station was the backside of Ambrose Burnside's horse. There's a statue of him in the square in front of the station; a metaphor for RI politics if there ever was one.

The old station still stands and is being used for other purposes. The new station is to the west of the old one; closer to the State Capitol. I know i posted some stuff here a long time ago re New Haven activities around Providence Harbor. If I posted the following abt riding the mail train from Providence to Boston, I apologize, but here it is again.

A trip on the mail train from Providence to Boston was an adventure. Train time. Far down the track in the maze of signal lights, a yellow light stabbed the darkness and glinted off the rails. One last bag tossed onto the third mail car and the doors rolled shut. A low "whonk, whonk" from the locomotive's horn and the mail train slowly rolled out from beneath the station's umbrella sheds into the rainy night. In the distance I could hear a freighter's whistle in the harbor.

Slowly at first and then faster the train moved, past the interlocking tower at the east end of the Providence station. This pagoda-roofed concrete tower controlled access to the New Haven line that ran through the East Providence tunnel and under the campus of Brown University to carry freight to the other side of the city. A curve to the left and then to the right let the track pass between basalt black stone walls. Next, the train passed through a factory district with sidings crowded with cars from different railroads such as Santa Fe, Burlington, Union Pacific, Missouri-Kansas-Texas, and Cotton Belt. Northup Avenue on the left and the Providence yard where I often saw a switcher making up a freight train or a set of road engines with a freight ready to head toward Cedar Hill or follow us up the road to Boston.

You folks are really giving me a lot of stuff to write abt. in the future, and I do appreciate it as different posts kick things back into what's left of my memory.

Question to proprietor - Are we going to do a segment on scary rr stories for Halloween? I thought I read somewhere where that was a possibility.

work safe

[Anonymous]

I'll have a quick draft and sandwich "to go" please Tom. I've been trying valiantly all morning to get a Post out. Constant interuptions have thwarted my best efforts. Now I must help a neighbor move some new furniture into his apartment. It just hasn't "let up" all morning. Please know I'm not ignoring anyone. I'll be "back in the sadle again" when these infernal obligatory social errands abate. Thanks to all who sent "best wishes" for my hearth and home. I was very lucky again to have had no damage. I'll return with a proper post a.s.a.p. Happy rails all.

[trolleyboy]

The light the light it Burnnnnsss.[:p][}:)] Morning Tom and the gang,count trplleyboy indeed I resemble that remak[8D] So I'll have a coffee and a pair of raybans please[:o)][;)]

My goodness I beat the manager in here today! Boris be a help an ddraw the shades for me it's a bit bright. Noooo you moron not with your flouresant crayons [banghead] Tom you will have to take the dry cleaning bill from my next pay check [sigh]


Tom I like to think that everyone will use the monday indexes to scroll back to the more interestin efforts by our members. But saving that the occastional post from the past as an encore on Saturdays will sometimes spark more debaye and disscussion so is a good thing as well ( No I'm not trying tto sound like martha Stewart Boris Bad [alien] go lie down in your shed with your new dolly Martha[;)][:p][:D] )

Tom The wabash another fine choice,funny everytime I man the museum's tables at the St Thomas train shows the local C&W singing tallent seem to sing the Wabash cannonball. I don't have any personal recollections of the wabash per say, but I do have several books with pictures of the wabashe's interchange with CNR in Welland and Fort Erie Ontario. Strictly freight though they ran no passenger service North of the boarder as far as I know. Twom trains still run technically through Canada which were waba***rains. They are of coarse now NS painted but they do still run. Autoparts from buffalo through S ontario and out through St Thomas and on to Detroit.

You are right the original boarding of the streetcarswas backasswards[V][B)] and did cause many a problem. At keast with the nearside design and it's many clones , running the PAYE system. The streetcar companies had their bottom lines improved ( not as many legal payouts ) and less use of their life guard people scoops. You also didn't have the cars fouling intersections which made semce as burgeoning car ownership and use in the teens was starting to congest the roads of many cities even at that time. Imagine using the old system and trying to jump on and off the car on the far side of a major intersecction ![:0][xx(]


CM3 Let me pick you up some breakfast for that wonderfull as always post. Providence did have a quite large street car system for a city of it's size.They were one of the first US cities to go into the trackless trolley ( electric busses ) If memory serves they used a whole flock of single and double truck Birney cars. Cheap and safe but lacking in the creature comforts ie decent springs to lessen the bounce and jossel of passengers[:(!][:0] They were quite rightly known as omit rockets in many quarters[xx(]. The least said about deisel busses dressed up as street cars the better <barf>[V] Tom did I make myself plain enough there. LOL

Well I've got to mossey. Hopefully I can check back in later.

Rob

[trolleyboy]

[oops] See that I went back to add afe comments and Ted beat me in in a run by sort of way. Oh well Tom I'll leave some ca***o pick up a beverage of his choice when he's back from his good neighbour mission(s) [tup]


I figured that I would do a bit of layout talk this morning afterall. I'm using a spare basement bedroom for the layout that's roughly 10 x 8' 12" , It is full of benchwork hugging the walls approx 24" deep with a four foot midline island. I'm likely going ( read will ) set up mostly urban scenes with a street car system winding it's way in and out of the city traffic. It will also interchange with regular VIA /CN /or CP passenger trains ( depending on my mood or time frame at the time)at a couple of mainline train stations, One of them is a GT class one depot which I built from a Sylvain resin kit. You can see it in the new layout construction shots on page 8 of ny railimages account.


It will be a ficticious trolley ling the H&SR ry ( Heatherton and Scottsdale street railway ) I've repainted several trolley models in their paint scheme(s) Most are pullman green bodies with TH&B creame ( fairly yellow creame ) on the windows and doors. Two cars are in an older red and TH&B creame which also works quite well togehter.

Primary street railway power is in the form of Two bowser DE Brills, One Bowser PCC ,I old walthers single truck Birney, two Bowser Indiana railway light interurbans,and three single truck Brills from IHC. I have 11 old bachman PCC's and Brills which are bach up power and will in some cases doante their inards to a few scratch building projects I'm planning for work equipment. Two of the Bachman brills have been repainted in company colour and will likley be yard filler / rush hour cars . The rolling stock traction wise rounds out with an MTS brass DT DE Brill snowsweeper very similar to the S 37 in my signature.

Again have a good day and play nice everyone. Rob

[siberianmo]

G’day!

Some interesting stuff this mornin’ and I see there’s a few Posts for me to respond to …

Acknowledgements for coalminer3 CM3 – Theodorebear Ted – trolleyboy Rob:

coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 08:46:55

Where to begin [?] Lotsa ground covered with your Post …..

The “laundry” – oh [yeah] who could forget that [?] Anyone who has ever watched a game at old Crosley Field surely has that building implanted in the grey matter; I know I do. Want some nostalgia [?] Click on this URL: http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/national/crosle.htm

Couldn’t agree more regarding Joe Morgan and his baseball analytical abilities – the best. Just as he was one of the finest 2nd basemen to grace the game – two time MVP at that. Loved that “arm flap,” hadn’t thought about it for quite some time. A trademark of his for sure! I KNOW which side of that series you were on – I was definitely over with the Reds. The homer by Fisk will always be what gets “Hallmarked,” but that was only game 6. We know the outcome and only one of us was pleased! [swg]

The October 31st “thing” for our cloven-footed friend, Boris is being overseen by Manager Ted. I can’t imagine that there will be any trepidation regarding “whatever” one may want to add to the festivities. Scary RR stories sound fine to me - Go for it! [tup]

Liked that narrative on the mail train to Boston. One can only imagine just how many stories there are “out there” regarding experiences aboard trains. The idea of course is to get those folks all under “one roof” – so to speak – kinda like this place of ours – and let the stories flow ……

I think Roy Acuff’s version of the “Wabash Cannonball” was by far the best – at least for me it’s the one that always comes up first. We’ve got it on the Juke – check out G14! [swg]

A bit of personal info regarding my experiences in Rhode Island. For the 8 years of living in New England (Norwich, CT and Boston area) we used to travel to a RI State Park called Arcadia. Familiar with it [?] My three kids learned to swim in that lake and we had some fantastic summertime weekends there. I recall that you had to get a “permit’ for a picnic table – the cost was 50 cents and it was “yours” all day. Can’t tell you how many times we made that drive and how great the memories still are.

Can’t say that I know much about RI politics, but I sure know a horse’s “metaphor” when I see one! [swg] Good analogy, for sure – can be applied in these parts quite easily!

Glad that you picked up on the L&N, kinda figured you’d have some input on that road. [tup]

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 10:50:04

Slow down “old timer,” remember – you’re retired! [swg] Sounds like you have one foot nailed to the deck and can’t get too far from where you’re at!

We’ll be here once you are able to gather your thoughts and put ‘em to the keyboard! Appreciate your taking the time to at least stop by – that really is the idea. Every Post doesn’t have to be a candidate for a Pulitzer – or Silver Throttle Award, for that matter! [swg] Just letting the guys know that you’re ‘round and kickin’ is meaningful too.

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 10:50:49

Okay, watswitchu and the daylight Posts [?] First we see you only near the bewitching hour, now you’re out ‘n about in the daytime! Hmmmmm.

Funny how those road names of old ring some bells now ‘n then, eh [?] One doesn’t require all kinds of experience with those roads in order to relate to ‘em. Just seeing the “flags” rolling by on passing freights, or better yet – passenger consists – is good enough. Lord oh Lord, by today’s standards, watching the freights is rather boring in terms of the heralds that aren’t. The cars are pretty much neutral in color and the names flick no switches for me. I mean how many UFXD stencils does one enjoy looking at [?] (I made that up!) Now when NAMES enter the picture – like FRISCO or WABASH or a host of others that we’ve been discussing over the past several weeks, that makes it all the better.

Didn’t know about those NS trains having Wabash origins. Interesting …..

Regarding today’s busy city streets and crowded intersections – well there would just have to be a safer way to handle it. But if the “old” ways were to be employed today – we’d have another way to trim down the urban population! [swg]

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 11:06:38

Appreciate your contribution to Pike Perspectives Day!. So what’s the radius of your mainline curves going to be [?]

I had a layout in a space about 22 ft x 10 ft, with a center aisle – the layout was pretty much like a “U” with double span bridges over the open end. Anyway, I was using 18” radius with primarily Athearn passenger cars. Now that I’m outta that space and into the Can-Am – the radius is at 22” and all of the Athearns (shorties) are in display cases. Can now operate the full length equipment that looks so much better. If I had to do it again, I’d probably have reconfigured my track plan for 24” inch radius – even that slight gain provides a bit more in terms of realism. Operationally, I’ve had absolutely no problems with the 22”, in spite of what I’ve read on other forums.

Duh – a street railroad on Trolleyboy’s layout [?] Really [?] [swg]

I checked out your photo site and the pix complete the story. Brings back some rather recent memories ….. It’s a great hobby for sure. Thanx! [tup]

Next up is the NOSTALGIA piece ........

So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #14

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Budd Company and the Wabash from a advertisement (early 1950s) found in one of my scrap books.


New Blue Bird On The Wabash

This is the Wabash Railroad’s new Budd-built, all-stainless steel Blue Bird, on its winging flight between St. Louis and Chicago. The Blue Bird will make the round trip daily between these two great terminal cities, adding to the completeness of Wabash service and presenting to its passengers comfort and luxury in rail travel previously unknown.

For the Blue Bird is the latest in the roster of distinguished name trains which Budd has created for the modernization of American railroads. Four of its cars are Vista-Domes, giving passengers an unobstructed view of the rolling prairies, picturesque bluffs and river scenery along the way.

Like all Budd-designed, Budd-built equipment, this train illustrates a principle – that better products are made of ideas as well as steel. This was true of the all-steel automobile body which Budd originated and which has made Budd the largest independent builder of body components in the world. It was true of the steel wheel which Budd developed to take the place of wood. It has been demonstrated in the Budd Disc Brake, and in stainless steel highway trailers.

In the railroad field, Budd ideas were revolutionary. Ideas that attract passengers by making rail travel more inviting. Ideas that permit faster schedules and yield substantial operating economies. It was Budd vision which led to the whole concept of the modern, stainless steel light weight streamliner. And Budd today is the only car builder who employs the superior strength of stainless steel to achieve lightweight construction with safety.

The Budd Co., Philadelphia, Detroit

Budd


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[Anonymous]

Good early evening Tom and those who beat the Mentor Village "rush hour."[swg] I'll take Rob up on his previous offer and make it a CR, if you please. Let's see, this is Wednesday so it must be Pike Perspectives time, no? I first wi***o acknowledge all of the fine posts from every Member who are so geneorous with their time and efforts. May I make a "blanket" statement to all of you: thanks to you guys, "Our" Place is the "oasis in a desert" that it has become.[tup]

Having returned from my "mission of mercy," maybe the phone will remain silent long enough for a little chat. Oh BTW, that little half-hour "lending hand" turned into a 2-1/2 hour siege of twisting, turning, back breaking hostling of over sized furniture stuffed into a under sized studio apartment.[xx(] Isn't that always the way? Great stuff on the Wabash, one of the most romanticized R.R. ever. Maybe the Illinois Central is its' closest rival (Cassey Jones)? Al, yes the "Crescent" is usually credited to the Southern Rwy. exclusively...not so. Glad you cleared up the distinctions with the Pensy, and L & N. included in the mix. Which brings me to the "Pike" subject again. I have a Pacific Fast Mail "United" PS-4 brass built-up of that famous steam (4-6-2) that is so often associated with the "Crescent City Limited." (Southern Rwy) The price was $49.95 when I purchased it in 1961. OUCH who threw that shoe at me? Anywho, my plan is to eventually model that famous Varnish into a replica of the prototype. That seems a long way off from the present as, currently, I'm still redoing and undoing the whole "Pike" seeking more realism. EGAD, yet another distraction via "heart line." Tom, you are right. This seems less like retirement every day.

CM3, another "Gem," your posts are much like Nick's menus, "Classics."[tup] Rob, great stuff on the "near side" cars. When the long Witts first came out, I believe they had a motorman and a conductor who was located "center car" for exiting passengers. There was a turnstile sort of operation as the passengers debarked from the double center doors as I recall. I should remember for once, as a little Tyke, some Bozo pushed through too fast and I ended up "on the deck."[V]

I'll be looking in on page 8 now Rob. I had to muster the courage from the depths of my soul to see what I've perpetrated on our unsuspecting Members.[:O] Tom, your choice in costume is befitting the ocassion. And BTW, by all means, any and all R.R. "folk lore" will be most welcomed at the party for Boris' Birthday Oct. 31st. Okay, I'm late already, so its a "wrap" for now. Happy rails.

[passengerfan]

Hello Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house.

Thanks for the Wabash fallen Flag. This was a railroad I always wanted to ride but never got around to it. Did ride on a Wabash car assigned to the City of Portland on one accasion. Car was built for service in City of St. Louis not sure why it was operating in City of Portland service.

The Wabsah Blue Bird was the only train in the land with a Budd built dome parlor observation that was Pullman operated. Those similar cars on the CB&Q were operated by CB&Q personel.

The Wabash Banner Blue operated the last Pullman operated heavyweight Parlor car in the US.

Later the Wabash Blue Bird would have the distinction of being the only trains in the US to operate two Dome parlor cars in the same consist both Pullman operated one was Budd built the other built by P/S.

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all

Back to the Bathams then TOM please.I have just been talking to a friend in England who had been to a beer festival held in a preserved line's loco shed with 90 ales and 8F 2-8-0 and Jubilee 4-6-0 steam locos[:-^][wow].

A good morning of posts. ROB thanks for the Nearside car info I have seen photos in Classic Trains of cars with a FRONT ENTRY sign and wondered about it .

CM3 On our trip last week I didnt see any frieght and I must have missed the line to the tunnel. The yard outside Providece had a few box-cars in it but seemed to be mainly used by Amtrak rail maintaince cars. There were 3 Amtrak locos in the 500# series.
Was the interstate running alongside the line just outside Providence when you travelled [?]. Great post[tup].

TOM Thanks for putting me right on the Royal Navy flag. I was told that the only church was at Burnham Thorpe, Nelsons birthplace it just shows you cant believe everything you hear.

Another great flag [tup]. There is is still the WABASH name in the old station building, which is now used for the city bus depot, in Columbia MO also on a bridge over I 70 there.Looking at the atlas it seems along way round from St Louis to Kansas City compared to what is now the Amtrak route. It would be interesting to know how the Wabash got the name[?].

I think I have seen the poster on the Silver Jubilee the A4 engine does look a bit boxy. I think the A4s looked better when the valance over the wheels was removed and not replaced during the war. Also the Silver and Gray livery I do not think suited them. A non-working preserved one was painted in this way a few years ago. Most of the A4s were painted in L.N.E.R. Garter Blue. in wartime they were black. In B.R. days brunswick green was the color as are the 2 preseved in North America today. I think this livery suited them best although #60007 Sir Nigel Gresley was painted in the short lived early B.R. blue(like the Caledonian light blue) it looked superb [yeah].

#2509 Silver Link soon after being built was used on a Press run in which it ran for many miles averaging over 100M.P.H and setting a then world record of 112 M.P.H.
It also worked alone for 14 days faultlessly until the second A4 Quicksilver was ready.
Obviously Teething Troubles hadnt been invented yet [:-,].

I,ll try to do a piece on British Pullmans

Another pint for the road and a round TOM please PETE.

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom

Dont put the pint glass away yet I forgot something [*^_^*].

Slightly[#offtopic] Earlier this week the KANSAS CITY STAR newspaper ran a story of the restoration of a childrens train from the old Jones Store from downtown. It will be on display in Union Station in November. They are apealling for any information from anyone who remembers this train. The train is a G-12 model Streamliner manufactured by the Minature Train Co. in Rensselaer, Ind. I thought perhaps Ted or one of the regulars might know about this.

Ted, you are right. This is an oasis. It takes me so long to write that I have missed postings that were made about an hour earlier.

[Anonymous]

Its late for me but I needed to make a correction and apology to Rob. Tom, just a draft if you please. I misunderstood the Post mentioning pix of a layout. I wondered how my shots could've been altered so quickly. My mistake, the page 8 frames are of Rob's Pike and a darned good start it is. You certainly are maximizing the use of the space available Rob. Multi levels are a must and with traction, these layered scenes make sense, good show.[tup]

Pwolfe, yes indeed, I not only remember the Jones Store miniature kid's train, I rode the thing every time my Mother took us shopping. This would be circa 1944 thru 1949. The diesel and cars (3 or 4 as I remember) were silver in color and the gauge perhaps 7-1/2" between rails. A tunnel and miniature structures were in place along track side as well. Macy's bought the Jones Store and I'm not sure what came of the train after that. Frankly, I'm not sure of the power source either. I can only guess that it may have run on car batteries because it was nearly silent. I was very young but the image still remains. Thanks for including this remarkable memorabilia in you Post.

Must vamous for now. Good evening to all. I'll be seeing you in the morning.[^]

[siberianmo]

G’day!

Looks like this day has turned out far better than yesterday. Finally have some afternoon activity ….. [tup]

Acknowledgements for Theodorebear Ted – passengerfan Al – pwolfe Pete:

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 15:54:34 and 18:59:08

Good to see your return to the bar. The conversations have been rather stimulating, albeit from one or two, regarding the Fallen Flag series. We may be an “Oasis,” but the watering hole at times appears to be runnin’ low! [swg]

Appears that the Monday festivities have generated some interest as well. Should be a good time ….. [tup]

passengerfan Al Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 16:06:26

As always, thanx for the round! Appreciate the acknowledgement of the Fallen Flag Wabash, including the associated NOSTALGIA piece. I got a kick out of putting it together, for it was an “educational” thing for me, as several have been.

The Blue Bird was quite the opulent train for such a relatively short run from St. Louis to Chicago. Four domes, plus …. Must’ve been quite the train. Your added information, always lends a great deal of insight to the dialogue. [tup]

pwolfe Pete Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 17:12:03 and 17:46:45

Check out these URL’s for some info on the origin of the name, “Wabash”:

Starts with the river:
http://www.in.gov/wrhcc/newsletter/news2001.html

Scroll down to railroad:
http://tacnet.missouri.org/~mgood/history/encycmorr.html#WAB

As mentioned yesterday (I think) there are vestiges of “old” all ‘round these parts, whether they be girder bridges, tunnel portals, stations, etc. Look closely, and just about all of the major road heralds can still be found. It’s both a sad and glad thing, if you follow me on this.

That A4 must have been some machine. Average of 100 mph is something else – then setting the record at 112 in those times really puts things in a perspective that kind of boggles the mind. We still are stuck on 79 mph in the U.S. for top speeds. Oh [yeah] there are places where that is the exception rather than the rule, but for the most part it’s “top” speed. Of course there are valid reasons, but when one thinks about the reality of the right-of-way being there long before development, well there’s an unintended consequence for ya! North American trains used to hit 100 mph regularly – but that was then and things have surely changed. Today, the high speed debate centers on new rights-of-way – avoidance of grade crossings, etc. An engineering nightmare, not to mention costs.

Next time you are in KCity, perhaps you’ll have the time to visit Crown Center. (It’s connected with Union Station these days by an enclosed above the street walkway.) Anyway, there’s a great model train store located up on the 3rd level of the shopping mall. The name is “Halls Station” and is the only train store in the Center. Anyway, this place has a operating layouts for: LGB (rather large); Marklin, and Lionel. Additionally, there’s all kinds of “pricey” stuff on the shelves and in the display cases. Your mention of those toy trains brought this to mind …….

Okay, Gents, time to watch what may be the final game of the World Series. Haven’t heard a “peep” out of barndad Doug these days (daze) but I thought for sure he’d at least be keepin’ us entertained about HIS White Sox! Oh well …….

So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[nickinwestwales]

Well good evening fellow tipplers-[4:-)]TOM-a round for the gentlemen,if you please-yourself included obviously-Apologies to all for recent absence,combination of daughters half-term,family trauma,3 hours of band recordings to edit..( S*d the lot of them--its back to 4-track analog for me ) and a kind of flat spot generally ( run out of relevant things to say and find it difficult to respond to that of which I have no knowledge) have caused something of a lull in foreign correspondance-Fear not,once I have this small seaonal adjustment ( Oh bugger,its bloody winter AGAIN ) under control,normal relations will resume..............................Right,just going back to catch up on "[4:-)]`s log" for the last week,see you all for Fish & Chip night tomorrow,---beam me up Scotty,regards to all,nick[C=:-)]...............Tom-E-Mail spotted,will read in morning when sober,--[tup]

[Anonymous]

Hello everyone. I'll take a cold glass of H20 with lemon, please Tom. I am still recovering and everything I've read has stated the longer a person has pneumonia, the longer it takes to recover. I've been sick about 8 weeks now so hopefully the problem has about run its course! Realizing water doesn't pay the bills, be patient and I'll soon be sipping stronger stuff.
Tom, I have found the Classic Trains article about the Boy Scout Jamboree. The article concerns the 1950 gettogether so that predates your trip. Good writing and pix, though.
Although our numbers are dropping, the quality of posts continues to improve. Informative and entertaining but my favorites are the 1st person narritives--the "your are there" kind. As a kid growing up in the 70s, I saw plenty of places that once were beehives of activity in the glory days, but by the time I came along, I just had to use my imagination.
Tom, I seem to remember a part in the song Wabash Cannonball about hoboes riding the rods and the brake beams. Did I miss it? Liked the Fallen Flags segment about this somewhat local road with the romantic name. I've had a copy of the latest book on the Wabash all year that I'm supposed to read and write about for the Midland's newsletter. Can't get interested in it as it is very dry.
Don't know much about the L&N except what I've read. They did but some Frisco diesels secondhand. A really good Alco customer. As a Alco nut, I'd loved to have heard a brace of RS3s work a heavy train uphill. Those 244s sound like a Harley on steroids!Gotta love that turbo lag, too. That's what provides all the smoke when an Alco is notched up.

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Gents!

What is that [?] Some conversation comin' in from a couple of members of The Legion of the Lost! [?] [swg]

Well one guy gets dispensation the other doesn't! Good to see ya, Nick and Dan. Your Posts came in at a good time, for I was thinking of closing 'er up a bit early. Not so - thanx! [tup]

Nick m'boy, methinks I'm gonna have to make a trip across that pond if for no other reason than to find out just what it IS they are putting into your water! [swg] Some guys are havin' a hulluva lot more fun than others. Ah, so many places to frequent and so little time .......

Dan All I can tell you is that it takes time - lots of it - to get the body back into the condition it was prior to this bout of pneumonia. Being impacted for 2 months is a long time, no doubt and it's nothing to take lightly. Frustrating beyond belief - but think of the alternatives! Glad you're able to keep up with us and we'll be here once you're back to full speed. [tup][tup]

Take another look (up on this page} to the WABASH [purple]Fallen Flag[/p[urple] and I think you'll find something of interest! [swg]

Byh the by, what's the ediition of that Classic Trains article on the 1953 Boy Scout Jamboree [?]

Nick We'll be lookin' for something special on that Nick's Picks Menu Board tomorrow night! [C=:-)]

Okay Leon the Night Man has the bar, as I retreat to watch the end of a really tight baseball game .......

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon. I'll have a nice guiness while I catch up on the rest of the days activity. I figured that I'd help you out a bit as it looks like the girls from oommpah land are ebgaged in an arm wrestling contest with both the CN and CP track gangs.[:0][B)] I see that Boris is no where to be found as well.[;)] I'm glad to see that you have decided to use the plastic cutlery and dishes.[^] won't be as expensive as the last time.[tup][B)]


Tom True to form I had to make a late night appearance, I have a rep to maintain afterall. I will try to make the occational daylight appearance as well as my time permits.

As to my layout It will be 22' radius as much as possible likely a couple of the places that are tight will have to be 18. the street railway equipment can actually take 9" and 12" but I 'm trying not to do that even though it is prototypical. I'm also trying to avoid having the mainline being point to point,I do like seeing things move perpetually when I'm in the mood.[:p]

It would indeed allow for darwins theory to be proven out on society if the stret cars were still built as in the "daze" of old[xx(].

The NS's involvement in the wabash is a bit convoluted. Wabash was taken over by the Norfolk and Western then of coarse was absobed in the southern NW merger. At one point CN / NS had a joint intermodal terminal in Dain City ( now a suburb of Thorold ON ) this line used an old NS&T swing bridge over the original part of the welland canal. The bridge is still there but it is permanently in place over the water as the 1970 re alignment of part of the canal by passes this piece of the original ditch. Trillium rail the local shortline which switches welland thorald and St Catharines and Port Colbourne ( The old frieght district of NS&T and then CN ) now uses the dain city yard and bridge. The joint CN / NS intermodal yard is noe in the old wabash frontier yard in Buffalo.


Ted Thanks for the thumbs up on the layout progress. The two raised sections will have a trolley line running over the joint trolley/ frieght trackage. The lower section will be filled with streets street tackage and commercial buildings. It's a slow work in progress but then I'm not in any race to get it finished. Question for you though. I was perusing your one disc and noticed that half the pictures were upside down. Not a big deal as the software on the dics will let me flip them right side up. Odd though.

You are right about the witt's. You entered the front and made your waay back, the condusctor had a stand mid car from which he collected fare's. You also exitied only via the centre doors. More on this in my next classic juice post[tup][:D]


Pete Nice info on the A class locomotives. Alway's nice to get info on classic steam.[^] You were not seeing things in those old trolley pictures that you had seen. On the nearsides and their clones the front doors would be marked entrance and exit when the cars were in PAYE set up. The rear doors if presant would haave been marked exit only. The lettering on most systems would have been typed out vertically beside the doors in most cases. On later Peter Witt type cars and on PCC cars the fromt doors would be marked entrance or entrance only and the centre doors would be marked exit only. I know that this is likely clear as mud but I will explain fully in the next couple of days.

nick Glad you made it back mate. I had this horrible feeling that I would have to cook thursday night. In thast case the pics board would have been maccaroini and cheese and hamburgers along with the fish and chips. Also I do have trouble containing your cohort [:(!][alien]when he's in the kitchen and your not around.


Well folks I will catch up, with everyone tomorrow evening.

Rob