"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[nickinwestwales]

What Ho Gentlemen,Who`s for a drink then ..?....Ah,[4:-)][C=:-)][oX)][}:)]TOM....[swg]..a bottle for me and whatever you`ll all have please,I`ll just catch up whilst you`re pouring them ( Oh yes.....I DO enjoy my nights off around here [:-,] )

CM3 ---That was a treat,-I could even see it in that lovely warm "sunset yellow"bias early Kodak film used to give.....[tup][^][tup]..nice one.

***-Welcome back-I think you`ve given me enough hit-points to find that on sattelite mapping programme-I`m straight over there from here,follow the route.....[tup][^][tup]...nice one also !!..

MANAGER TED--,two points of particular interest. in no particular order---Tilting trains:-will come back to this but Richard Branson`s Virgin Railway`s are currently awaiting track upgrades to West -Coast route to use Pendolino stock to full advantage-and in doing so ,extend Trans-Europe high-speed rail link beyond London...........now ,what was the other thing,oh yes--give serious consideration to loading Minnie The Moocher,your horn,records,photo`s etc into the wagon and coming up North to `Our Place` for the weekend--early Met. Office reports over here suggest that Wilma might just lift your hat off-----keep safe my friend [tup]

Ah-[4:-)][C=:-)][oX)][}:)]TOM--back again--sounds like a fair crowd starting to gather in the pool room--Please tell me it`s not lizard racing night again-surely there was enough unpleasantness last time--I still hear scurrying noises late at night----Thank You--Layout sampler opened up whole new dimension,just revisited with new perspective...[tup][tup][^][tup][tup]. Now then,that familiar store-given the added co-incidence of the date of the pic,I claim license to append "Branches in North York & Arlee" to the storefront......The buildings behind Arlee depot have a hint of Heljan about them...anywhere close? pic 16 particulaly took my eye-looking at it again as part of a discrete scene I noticed the back-scene top line for the first time. Covering the screen down to that level with a magazine,the scene jumps into perspective and the falls behind the R.D.C`s leap out at you-had previously missed them completely-also the quiet presence of the Blue Train in the bottom left of the shot,the dome car in the focal point,rolling onto the bridge deck.............[^].......Well,I`m beginning to think I should quit whilst I`m ahead-ROB-hold the fort dear boy, Boris is due for a scrape down and bleach-turn up the juke whilst you`re there,it`ll cover the noise...................................................................Night all,nick[C=:-)]

[siberianmo]

Evenin’ once again,

Well gotta hand it to the Astros they proved to be the better team in the playoffs and are headin’ to Chicago and the White Sox. Should be a good World Series with two excellent teams. Edge to Chicago.

The perplexing part of all this is that for two consecutive years, the Cardinals had the best record in the Major Leagues – two years runnin’! Now that’s great, eh [?] Doesn’t mean a thing should you not win it all. Reminds me of the year that the Blues won the President’s Cup for the most games won in the regular NHL season. They got blown away in the first round of the playoffs! Go figure ……. It always hurts when your team implodes, regardless of the sport.

Okay, Boris just give ‘em all a drink on the house and if you ring that bell, I’ll wring your ……. Well, on second thought …. [swg]

Sir Nick Looks like you’ve got a case of the Smilies my man! [swg] They’re everywhere, they’re everywhere! <grin>

You’ve done quite a job of applying some scrutiny to my Can-Am photo’s and you’re dead on! The pix really are not of the quality I would like, as I was still getting accustomed to the digital oddities. I’ll be redoing them one of these days (daze)!

One nice feature about the Rail Images album is that you can really enlarge the photo’s much more than with Photo Bucket. I wonder how many of the viewers take the time to check out the features by trying this or that. Obviously you did!

Anyway, you asked about the structures and I’ll put together a listing for you, but not tonight. Kinda runnin’ out of steam and unlike some guys ‘round here, I hit it early. Bride gets up at 5:10 AM, Monday thru Friday, so it’s an early Reveille for us. Juneau and I head out for our one mile walk at 6:30 AM, while Carol drives off for her morning class of torture for the university students. [swg] I will provide the details for you …… thanx for asking.

You’ll have to explain what you mean about claiming “license” regarding the “familiar” structure. Yes, I know it’s the General Store, but <huh> [?]

Okay boyz, it’s time for me to check out and let’s hope we have ‘nother great day in the ‘morrow with the Posts. Approaching 20 again today, but much more importantly is the content – the content! Some excellent stuff indeed. Thanx to all who made it so.

Watch for the Fallen Flag and Nostalgia Posts!

Tom[4:-)][oX)][zzz]

[siberianmo]

THURSDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Good Morning Gang! One more day to go before we can call it “week’s end!” “Til then however, why not do some chillin’ with us and settle in for a relaxing start to your day be reviewing what you may have missed since your last visit!

A hearty THANX to those who continue to make our information exchange vibrant, refreshing and interactive! [tup][tup][tup]

Info for the Day:

(1) Today is Fish ‘n Chips Nite plus Nick’s Picks.

(2) Tomorrow is Pizza Nite plus Steak ‘n fries.

(3) A reminder of POLICY(repeated) Those who disregard the efforts of others on a routine basis are not welcome at ”Our” Place. One-way Posts will not be acknowledged and are not appreciated ‘round here. [tdn]

INDEX Monday’s only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) Gunns Kevin Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 00:48:08 (141)

(2) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 05:35:21 (141)

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 05:41:05 (141) Wednesday’s Info & Summary

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 05:46:29 (141) Fallen Flag MEC

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 07:32:56 (141) reply to Gunns & nickinwestwales, etc.

(6) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 08:11:03 (141) NH

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 08:27:26 (141) Can-Am vehicle inventory

(8) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 10:15:53 (141) Inclusive Post!

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 12:15:05 (141) reply to coalminer3 & Theodorebear

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 12:21:18 (141) Nostalgia 1956 Hotel Ad

(11) wrwatkins *** Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 13:08:39 (141)

(12) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 14:00:34 (141) Inclusive Post!

(13) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 14:17:27 (141)

(14) wrwatkins *** Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 16:02:18 (141)

(15) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 16:14:23 (141) reply to trolleyboy

(16) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 16:21:37 (141) Inclusive Post!

(17) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 18:59:04 (141) reply to Theodorebear, etc.

(18) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 20:02:07 (141) Inclusive Post!

(19) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Oct 2005, 22:22:17 (142) reply to nickinwestwales, ec.

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[Anonymous]

Howdy Tom and to all of our "Breakfast Clubbers" (Radio show, circa 1940's, host Don McNeil). Java and a "lead sinker" (Bagle) this A.M. I think. Some nice postings for a Wednesday (yesterday). Wow, 2005 will go down as "an ill wind that never blew well." December will mark the anniversary of the Tsunami in Indonesia; can you believe it? Any "takers" on what 2006 will bring? My neighbor is starting work in his back yard on what looks for all the world like an Ark.[:O] All people speak of, hereabouts, is insurance and evacuation routes.[V] We have better things to talk about.[tup]

[C=:-)] Nick, I really have my "chops up" for the Fish and Chips today. So does "Minnie the Moocher." Those pix of the Can-Am are quite something , aren't they? I keep looking for the traditional "What's it(?") piece of rolling stock or loco.[^] So far, I've missed the boat, but I'll bet "It" is lurking about on some remote siding, somewhere in the Gorg area.[swg] I opted for the subtle approach by adding fluted sides to a heavy weight standard (w/monitor roof). Amazingly, few have noticed it [not in my pix]. Some modelers "go the distance" by substituting Walscheart valve gear for Baker or Caprotti, et al. I wonder if anyone of our group of modelers have let their imaginations run to the bazaar? The proverbial "Egg Liner" doesn't count in my ledger, too easy!

Well, I'm down to the rails in some places on my Pike. There is much to do and if the weather will allow me, perhaps some progress can be made over the weekend.[bow] Rob, did you ever find an answer on the "express trucks" for the N.Y.C. reefers (blue and white livery)? That brings up a related inquiry. How many of you can recall the (not infrequent) incidence of your train being delayed due to a "Hot Box?" Usually a freight car would be running a axle hub in a dry journal and the metal-to-metal contact would cause a lot of blue smoke and possibly a fire if left unchecked. I can recall 2 such incidents on the Frisco enroute. In the days before sealed roller bearings, this was a nagging problem. Warning: you will be telling your age if you respond to this inquiry![(-D]

Okay, the sun is coming up and I need to make a final check on the hardware, etc.![:(!] Boris, just "get used to it." The Wedding is off for good and all! Besides, I have it on good authority that German women Weight Lifters eat their dead.[xx(] Happy rails all.[:D]

[Gunns]

Morning All,
Coffee and something Spiffy for breakfast.
Thanks all on the comments on the Mine Shaft, A lot of New Mexican towns exist only due to the Railraods need for water, or maintence sites. Other towns (Such as Albuqurque) changed markedely (in ABQ it moved the town center 5 miles and provided up to 5000 jobs) And in the Classic trains era the mobility given by thr RRs changed the way pepole lived and played.
Later
Gunns

[siberianmo]

Good Morning Guys,

Just a couple of comments before getting to today's Fallen Flag.

Ted I see you have "declared" the wedding between our cloven footed friend, Boris and the fair maiden from Ooooooopah Land to be "off." How so [?] Well, be that as it may, the ruling from the Can-Am County Attorney General regarding the legality of such a "union" is pending. Legal or not, this joining of mosts unlikely beings should never occur. Not quite sure who began this - I think it was Rob! As stated several times, I'm "not involved" with this, only from the standpoint of being the Proprietor of this place and the "keeper," so to speak, of the characters frequenting it.

Your reply Email has been received. Thanx. [tup]

"Hot box" has been discussed herein - somewhere back on the early pages methinks. And yes, I certainly recall the phrase. Used to watch the inspections of the journal boxes when at stations where those kinds of things were taking place. Long live TImken! [tup]

Batten down the hatches and keep 'er headin' into the seas.

Wonderin' when we'll see Posts from CFournier Chris - earlydiesels Dan - West Coast S Dave - Trainnut484 Russell [?]

I noted for the 2nd day that passengerfan Al was doing his Phantom Browse routine! [%-)][%-)]

Okay boyz, time to get movin' along ..... and be sure to check out the SUMMARIES to find out what's going on 'round here!'

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

POLICY: No response or acknowledgment from me to those who consistently refuse to participate in the inclusiveness of their Posts.

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Bangor & Aroostock (BAR)

Headquarters: Bangor, ME

Mileage:

1950: 616
2000: 433

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesels: 46

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 4,646 – Passenger cars: 2

Principal lines in 1950 (all in Maine):

Searsport-Derby-Fort Kent
Brownville-Brownville Jct.
Northern Maine Jct.-Bangor
Derby-Greenville
Old Town-South Lagrange
South Lagrange-West Seboois
Oakfield-Phair-Presque Isle-Van Buren
Van Buren-St. Francis
Squa Pan-Stockholm
Mapleton-Presque Isle
Caribou-Limestone
Phair-Fort Fairfield

Passenger Trains of note:

Aroostock Flyer (Bangor-Van Buren via Houlton and Presque Isle, with through cars from Boston via Northern Maine Jct.)
Potatoland Special (Bangor-Van Buren via Houlton and Presque Isle, with through cars from Boston via Northern Maine Jct.)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[coalminer3]

Good Morning: Coffee, a round, and more quarters. Hank, Jr? I guess...

The town of Oak Hill, WV is located not too far up the road from here. It is the site where Hank Williams, Sr. passed away as he was being driven to a concert date. At least that is the story because nobody is too sure whether or not he was dead before of after he reached Oak Hill. Anyway, the legislature (when they don't have any thing better to do), periodically goes into a frenzy abt. renaming part of the road to Oak Hill the "Hank Williams Memorial Highway." Hank's demise happened in the parking lot of an old Pure Oil gas station. The station still stands and there is some talk of turning into a museum. I'll leave it at that. I had a border collie mix who liked Hank so well, he ate three Hank cassettes - gotta love it! He was a great dog with an attitude - I think he took after my wife's side of the family (LOL)

Oak Hill is also known for being on the Virginian. The old VGN freight house still stands and has been resotreed. Oak Hill also was the site of the plug in Trainmaster (the locomotive, not the railroad employee). So much for the local history lesson for the day.

wrwatkins: Interesting material about Gould and his transcontinental scheme. I recall reading abt the great Wabash plan in the book about the P&WV titled High and Dry. Maury Klein did a good biography of Gould and there seems to be some "revisionism" going on abt him right now as there's another new book.

Now we got BAR? A fascinating operation with some good people working for it. I made more than a few visits up there over the years. BL2s and F3s and converted troop cars used as cabeese. I'll have to go find my notes on that one as well as there are some stories from there, too. They had a fine looking Bicentennial locomotive and I recall going up there and photographing it on the turntable at No. Maine Jct.

work safe

[Anonymous]

Good morning Y'all. And good morning Tom. I see that you are on at this early hour. Glad it is fish and chips day. I will be in at lunch for a big plate and a draft of Guiness. Now I will just have a strong black coffee. Sorry to hear that the marriage is put on hold. Hopefully they can work out their problems and end up in a life of perpetual agony.

Nick I am glad I helped you with the WPT story. I forgot to mention that the stone piers for the bridge are still in the river. There was talk at one time of building a highway bridge using the piers, however, there is a skyscraper on the eastern end and the turn required in the road to miss the building would be a killer. That plan has been dropped. My father used to have several snap shots of some wrecks on the P&WV. If I can find his shoe box of old photos I will try to post some of them on Sunday posting day.

Theodorebear I like you cannot understand why people play with death by running around crossing gates. While at DART we had a saying based on the old paper-rock-scissors game. It went Bicycles beat pedesterians, cars beat pedestrians, and trains beat cars. There is no closure to this ring where pedestrians beat trains. No body likes to be held up at a train crossing, but this is no excuse to be stupid and play with your life. I think of the Amtrak hitting the steel hauling truck in Bourbonnis Il a couple of years ago. I assume the truck driver saw the train way down the track and thought it was a freight going 10 MPH and he could make it over the track. Surprise! It was Amtrak going 80 MPH and was on the crossing before he cleared it. It all went downhill from there. Some people just insist on improving the gene pool.

Better get back to work.

Cheers,
***

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom, Time for Coffee and a quick pastry.
Don't mean to be a a phantom but next week is the finals for my tax course and license so have to do a bit of cramming. Seems as I get older I suffer more and more from CRS. It takes me longer to study to get through these courses and get decent grades as well.
Iknow I know Boris ring the bell I.m off topic and will have to get ready for work soon so will check back in later.
Sorry Tom.

[siberianmo]

Nick this responds to your inquiry regarding some of the buildings located on the Can-Am. Recommend you call up my photo album at http://www.railimages.com/gallery/thomasweber

Structures in the Mountain Village: (pix #11-13)

Second Class Saloon by Grandt Line.
Hardware Store by Con-Cor.
General Store by LifeLike.
ESSO station by Heljan.
Diner by City Classics.
“Juniata” freight station by Plasticville
Passenger station w/platforms by Atlas.
Alpine House w/balcony by Heljan.
Hotel Chalet by Heljan.

Structures in the Mountain Depot: (pix #14)

“Arlee” freight/passenger depot by Pola.
Platforms by Atlas.
Quonset hut by RIX.
Blue utility building home made.

Structures in the City: (pix #35-38, 54)

Union Station w/platforms by Walthers Cornerstone
Bus Station by Bachmann Spectrum
Ambassador Hotel by Bachmann Spectrum
Headquarters Building by Walthers Cornerstone
Bob’s Hot Dog stand by Model Power

Thanx for asking – enjoy!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'day again!

Now that's a bit more like it - some inclusiveness showing thru!! [swg][tup]

CM3 Always appreciate the mornin' pick-us-up that you provide. Great story about Oak Hill - gotta love it for sure! [tup] I'm one of those who prefres Hank Jr. to Hank Sr. Perhaps the quality (or lack thereof) of the early recordings. But Jr. knocks the socks off the C&W (if we still refer to it that way) charts for me. Amazin' to what extent some will go to honor their "heros." One only needs to visit Graceland (well, not really - a drive-by would do!) to see the continued "reverence" to the "King." <yuck>

Never thought I'd see you use the term "cabeese" [tdn], suprised at ya! Nevertheless, the BAR must have been quite the "down east" railroad and my only "connection" with it was to view an occasional passing freight car.

I traveled in Maine quite a bit, along the coast from Eastport south to New Hampshire many times. Even did a VHF-FM survey cruising out about 20 miles from the beach from Provincetown, Cape Cod up to Eastport aboard a 65 footer. Now that's a story - better saved for our Rendezvous in Toronto!. [yeah] I know Maine - one just can't get there from he-ah! [swg]

I think you "owe" us a comment or two about those HOTELS AND BOARDING HOUSES in the BLUE RIDGE MOUNTAINS in connection with the Post on the Washington & Old Dominion Railway (page 134). [swg]

As always, thanx for the round and quarters .... okay Boris Ring it ...... [tup]

Al To your credit you are trying, some simply don't and won't get it! As we used to say, see ya when the wind shifts! [swg]

*** There has been an awful lot of good stuff Posted in the past several weeks, before, during and since your European adventure. I've done as much as possible to make it easy for our regulars to catch up through the development of the Summaries, especially the Index.

Always glad to have you 'round, and hope that you can get up to speed with all of us so that your place at the bar stays permanent.

Okay guys ... gotta get to some other business.

Enjoy!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Good morning everyone. Tom I'll take a big black coffee, I'd love to have something in it but I have to work this afternoon. It's going to be an expensive day infortunatly cause my wife's infernal combustion machine has decided that it needs a new radiator.[:(!][banghead]

To the more important stuff trains [tup][;)][yeah].


Ted I have not forgotten about the express cars. Seems that we were both right ( Don't you love it when that happens [?] ) Apparently some of the cars were built with express trucks, this was expensive and a maintenance headache so from what I can determine they were replaced by standard trucks at their first re-buildings. Some of the later orders were built as standard cars.

I vaguley remember the hotboxes's ( no this wasn't a night club or band [:D][}:)] ) CN used normal bearings on their cabeese, I can remember several smoking it up. Also both CN and CP had some stock cars and grain boxcars is captive home service only ( not interchanged because solid bearings were not permitted for interchange ) So I have seen and smelt a few hot bearings over the years. More recently I helped as we moved a long unused Witt car from one barn at the museum to another it's bearings were well seized [xx(]( nothing a good glob of bearing oil couldn't fix though[^] )


Also as to the " wedding " Seems mommy Helga is none to happy as the beast[alien] Boris will not give up his dolly's. This is tantamount to treason as far as Mom is concerned so i think Tom that the local authorities need not interceed. as to the other it seems that Chrissey did coerce Boris ( not sure how yet and not sure I want to know ) In ordering the food for yesterdays shindig. She said that she will pay for it so as far as I'm concerned all is forgiven.[;)]



Tom Today's fallen flag is agian a good one. One bit of confusion however. Is not the BAR still operating independantly ? Perhaps CM3 our local cub reporter could find out[:)] You may or may not know but the BAR on several occations leased GP's to the BCR when they had some power shortages. I have several pictures in a book of a solid set of 6 or 7 BAR geeps pulling a general merchandice train up the Checkamus canyon in BC. Also was not the BAR the joint owner operator of a passenger train with CP through brownsville jct. Both railroads if I'm correct purchased equipment to operate this train, this is why CPR purchased their three orfan E8's.



CM3 Again so very interesting info on Virginian territroy. But the

QUOTE: plug in trainmaster ?

I think that there is a story there that needs to be told , maybe a new "story by the fireplace" series is warrented



*** I'm glad that you have got to your kids and grandkids. I too have seen to many close calls over the years. We have had about 10 fatalities in Brantford in rail related (all avoidable ) accidents in the last 15 years or so. To my mind one is too many. All of them were patience and the yes I'm invinsible type attitude caused. Enough of that sobering thought however.

Boris you thing from another world you please ring up round for everyone! And one for Hank Williams too. catch everyone on the "otherside" Rob

[trolleyboy]

Tom Well how bout that the spacing worked today ! I haven't changed anything so who knows [alien]'s in my keyboard or something [?]


Nice itemized account on the old layout, I attempted to do the same a few years back ( bought on of thoses itemize you layout software packages ) Worked about as well as a cat in a dog show. [:O][XX(] I also scared myself as I did some "number" crunching. I will see what i can do as far as a layout account next wednesday. Seeing as I'm in a reconstruction phase it's mostly theoretical at the moment. The woods there the tracks there I just haven't made much progress lately. More later Rob

[Anonymous]

Hi everybody, just have time for a quick Piels please Tom. Looks like we have a "day of grace" where Wilma is concerned. Still, I did my last "tank top off," bank roll, and strom staples "run out" this A.M., PHEW. I apologize that I must "nip" and run but there is always time for one of my dumb questions. At one time, was the B.A.R. known as the Bangor Aroostock and Rutland R.R.? Don't know why that moniker sticks in me "knob," just does.[zzz] The nearly keystone shaped logo is mindful of some other Line. Can't quite put my finger on it?[swg] "But on the other hand", a Road with the letters BAR has got to be erstwhile by any measure, right?[:D]

The "Can-Am County Attorney General" is likely to be hearing from Federal authorities in the eminent future. Seems there is some deliberation on the question of bestiality that has come into focus (i.e. cloven hoofs).[:O] Wouldn't you know the Editor of our local newspaper (scandal sheet) got into the act and "blew the whistle?" There has been a lot of that going on, hasn't there?[tdn] Hey CM3, Hank Jr. is on "out-a-sight" jazz guitarist, don't cha know? I heard him at a jazz "session" in O.K. City and he "held his own" with the Profession's best. He's also no fool. He defintely knows where the money is and it ain't Jazz.[V] Gotta skoot, I'm late now. See ya's all whenever possible.

[trolleyboy]

Well gentlemen I'm on a bit of a roll as of late so I'll give you the next incarnation of..... Classic Juice The Berlin & Waterloo Street Railway later The Kitchener- Waterloo Railways


The first public transit in the towns of Waterloo and Berlin ( now Kitchener ) was provided bu the B&WSR which incorproated in 1886 This was a 2 and a half mile line in downtown Berlin from the Berlin town hall on Scott street down to Ceadr street in waterloo ( the towns now cities are built on top of each other )
This line carried passengers and mail and was a "horse car line "



In march of 1893 the company secured permission to electrify it's mainline.Due to a small bas e of capitol it took two years to complete the electrification. Power was purchased from the Berlin gas company which installed a new edison generator for this purpose. The first cars to run were three of the former enclosed horsecars which had new vestibules added and a Pekham electric truck with one 25hp westinghouse motor.



The old 30lbs T rail was replaced by lite 56lbs rail and the line was extended to Ontario and young streets in Berlin. In 1899 new management purcahsed two purpose built open cars from Ottawa car and coach as well as Two more closed ex-horse cars were purchased from an unknown sorce.

Another change in management in 1901 resulted in the purchase of more cars one new ( the first double trucker } from Ottawa car and coach., and two more second hand from Buffalo.Thes cars were bought for the new just completed bridgeport line.

In 1902 a further extention of the Scott street line in Berlin and was extended to madison street in waterloo where a new larger car barn was constructed.In 1905 a steam powered powerplant was built into the carbarn which allowed them to stop buying power from the city owned power company. At this point the town of Berlin sought to purchase the whole street railway but certain settlement s had to be made as half the ROW was in the town of Waterloo. In 1907 the town of Berlin assumed control of the entire system.



Once there was a stable ownership the trackage was upgraded and double tracked eliminating the slowdowns of passing sidings. The town also replaced the inefficieant steam power plant with cheaper hydropowere purchased from Niagara Falls. They also purcahsed several more cars second hand from saint John NB which were too large for the NB system so these Double truckers were essentially brand new.

In 1912 they instituted a pay as you enter service on all cars and as such purchased two new large "praire" type cars from preston car and coach. These cars were already equiped for PAYE service and a new 10 minute service started in 1913.

In 1914 the company changed names To the Kitchener & Waterloo as the name of "Berlin" was chabged to Kitchener on the outbreak of the war( and still stands today ) In 1919 the interchange with the GRR railway wasdouble tracked to speed up service and more Prairie type cars were purchased from Preston.In 1921 further routes were built along Albert and Sterling streers and turning wyes and ultimatley a turning loop ws constructed to speed up service. By this time all the routes were double tracked. The bridgeport line was extended deeper into the now city to margaret street where it crossed over on a vaiduct the Grand River Railway. a proposed line extention ( an interurban district to Guelph ) ws floated at this time but the finaces wer not there ( nor would be )


The imidiate post war years were interesting in that a huge new barn was built at kitchener JCT ( larger than a railway this size needed ) 5 large Peter Witt's were bought from the Cleveland railway these were intended to carry the swelled wartime passenger load but did not arrive untill 1924 ! The arrival of the witt's did allow all of the old horse cars to be scrapped and 5 single truck birney's were purchased in 1921 to replace the old Ottawa double truck cars on the Bridgeport line.


The last "new" eddition to the roster a birney was purchased from Peterborough in 1928interestingly the peterborough cars troute linen had a stop for a "CN Depot" which was useable in kitchener so the ever frugal line left it in place ! In may 1939 the transit system bought a small fleet of busses for cross town operations. Finding they liked them they abandioned the bridgeprt line to busses in 1940. The CN depot line was abandoned in 1941 carving the railway from 10 and a half miles to 6 and a half miles of track.

The sudden end occured in 1947 when a severe sleet storm took down the remaining trolley wire. A new trolley bus service was installed in 1953 to replace teh streetcars and this ran until 1973. The little used witt's were sold to regina and that was it.

Interestingly the cities of Kitchener and waterloo now a population of 500,000 are pursuing the construction of a new ligt rail sysrem to ease up on their traffic conjestion. The first phase is do to open in 2012 when it's expected the poulation will be close to 700,000. Funny how things come full circle. Rob

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

A fine day this tuned out to be. Began with quite a bit of <gloom> weather wise and other wise here in mid-continent USA, as Cardinals fans awoke to the realization that there would be no Game #7, no National League Pennant, and no World Series. RIP 2005 Red Birds you "done good" during the regular season, but ran out of gas and into a hotter team in the playoffs. Now the sun has come out, the rains have held off (too bad, really) and the temps are dropping a bit as the cold front descends upon us. I think this is the same front that will ultimately decide the "fate" of Hurricane Wilma ......... hang in there Ted!

Okay, some responses appear to be in order:

Sorry Rob but I had to do a “double take” on that comment of yours

QUOTE: . . . cause my wife’s internal combustion machine has decided that it needs a new radiator.

Finally figured it out! You do have a way with words! [swg]

So, the attempt at a wedding seems to be “off” in that Boris won’t give up his dolls, eh [?] So what’s wrong with that, a little Ménage a Trois got the Mother upset [?] <Geesh> I doubt that the findings of the Attorney General would have permitted it anyway, not to mention the local resistance group. Heard that the sales of tar, feathers ‘n torches were runnin’ rather high up in the Can-Am Gorge country. [swg] All’s well that ends well, I suppose! (Kingston Trio, circa 1950s).

And, Chrissy “fessed up,” eh [?] Well, I will put off that interview for relief bartender, as I’m not convinced that she should be put on the payroll. Apparently Manager Ted has had her working ‘round here, but I haven’t authorized any pay. Wonder WHAT the payment could be [?] Hmmmmmmm. [}:)][:-,]

A reiteration of a reiteration: All Fallen Flags deal with passenger operations. As with CN, CP and others, those “flags” still are around, but the passenger side is long gone.

QUOTE: The Bangor and Aroostook Railroad (AAR reporting mark BAR) is a defunct United States railroad company, that formerly operated lines in northern Maine.
The company was incorporated in 1891 to combine the lines of the former Bangor and Piscataquis Railroad and the Bangor and Katahdin Railroad. It was based in Bangor and lines extended from there to Oakfield, Houlton, Madawaska, Presque Isle, and Searsport.

In 1995, the BAR was acquired by Iron Road Railways. In 2002, the company was declared bankrupt, and in 2003 its lines were sold to Rail World, Inc., which incorporated them into the newly-formed Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railway.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangor_and_Aroostook_Railroad

Iron Road Railways combined the BAR with the former CP line from Brownville to Montreal. The trains operated along that 853 segment under the BAR herald. So the answer to your inquiry is a “qualified” yes! [tup]

Glad the formatting seems to be working, sure does make a difference!

Regarding the inventory of the hobby, just something I do, just my anal ways once again taking over! Right brained people ..... [swg] Anyway, it is a "reality check" for sure!

Thanx for your Classic Juice, number five believe, which will be added to the Index for Monday. Good stuff! You are slowly but surely reeling us in, aren't you [?] [}:)]

Thanx for the round! Spending some of the "big bucks," eh [?] OR should I be checking the upstairs tub in my private quarters [?] [swg]

Ted It could be that there was a "connection" with Rutland, but I've been unable to find any. Given that the BAR was a Maine railroad, connecting Rutland (Vermont, I presume) would have changed that precept completely. I am vaguely familiar with the Rutland Railroad having a "connection" with the New York Central, but that's about it. Also, the D&H competed with the Rutland Railroad for Montreal bound traffic.

There have been times when I've seen heralds and/or names of railroads that never existed. They came from modelers appearing in Model Railroad magazine and other similar periodicals. Easy to meld them all together. For example, I'm running a couple of M.E.S.S. 40 ft box cars from Fergie up in Dartmouth (Halifax) Nova Scotia. Purely a fictitious line with a great herald, one day someone will think that it is "real." Happens!

Commentary on "wedding," cloven feet aka: hooves and preservation of humankind surely puts any thought of a "union" out of the question. RIP! [tdn]

Glad the situation with the path of Wilma has given those in Florida additional time to make ready ...... let's hope it veers far south, or just winds down way, way south.

Okay - appreciate the continuing dialogue m'boyz - and don't forget that we need money in the till - SO, whatillyahave [?] [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

Here’s something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with
Classic Trains. Check this ad out (from The Official Guide of the Railways – 1956) [located on the back cover]

Pioneering design keeps

Fairbanks-Morse motive power

first on the rails

. . . . . . . . FM

F-M Introduced America’s First –

2000 horsepower road locomotive

2000 horsepower road switcher

2400 horsepower passenger unit,
the “Consolidation Line”

2400 horsepower six-motor road unit, the ‘Train Master”

Each of these Fairbanks-Morse First’s was a trend-maker toward higher horsepower per motive unit – a trend quickly followed by other locomotive builders to the benefit of the railroad industry as a whole.

- - - - - - and now, another pace-setter, the “Speed Merchant” . . . America’s newest high-speed, lightweight passenger locomotives ., . . conceived with brilliant flexibility and single-engine simplicity – designed to put the profit back in passenger service.

- - - - - - Pioneering the future . . . improving the present. These are the continuing goals of the Locomotive Division of Fairbanks-Morse & Co., Chicago 5, Ill.

FAIRBANKS-MORSE
a name worth remembering when you want the BEST

DIESEL LOCOMOTIVES AND ENGINES – RAIL CARS AND RAILROAD EQUIPMENT – ELECTRICAL MACHINERY – PUMPS – SCALES – WATER SERVICE EQUIPMENT– MAGNETOS

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[Anonymous]

Good afternoon Y'all. Ar ound for everyone in the bar and here are a couple of greenbacks for the juke box. Certainly glad we got the dollar bill changer installed.

Nick-your comment about checking the maps made me go looking for them to trace the WPT. I have two sources-Topo Zone and Google Maps. Topo Zone just gives you the topographic maps in color. They are good as the railroads stand out and you can see how straight the WPT is. I traced it from the Ohio River to Pittsburgh and there are very few curves. When they do cross the competition the other lines are following the creeks in a very circuitous route. Guess this why it was called the High and Dry. The other source is the Beta edition from Google. You have to do a little downloading to access the system (free). They have satellite images in addition to maps. They also offer a hybrid with roads named on the satellite pics. In major metropolitan areas the resolution is very good for the pics, but in the back country they go to a lower resolution. The satellite, being a photo, the railroads do not stand out that well, however, if you know the area you can make them out. I checked the Point area in Pittsburgh and you can see the piers. They are the black rectangles at the water's edge. Some blue covered barges are tied up on the west side of the river next to the piers. I think these are the charter boats that ply the river around Pittsburgh. I could not make out the tunnel even knowing it was at the end of the former bridge. Good hunting.

What is also interesting about the P&WV is that in the '20s when all major railroad building was complete in the US they built a line from Pittsburgh to Connellsville PA where they connected with the Western Maryland. Finally Gould's dream of an ocean to ocean railroad came to fruition, however, by this time the parts had been scattered to the wind.

Tom-I enjoy staying at old hotels that were once the property of the railroads. I like them because they have been refurbished into 5 star hotels but still retain their charm and ambience. You get finishing details in the old hotels that are cost prohibitive today. My favorites are the CP Hotels that have been spun off as the Fairmont chain. I have stayed in the Palliser in Calgary, Vancouver in Vancouver, Olympic in Seattle, Banff Springs, Chateau Lake Louise, Empress in Victoria, Jasper Lodge, Queen Elizabeth in Montrael, and Royal York in Toronto.

The railroads at one time helped to develop the national parks, NP built the one at Glacier, UP had one at West Yellowstone, and Santa Fe had a couple at the Grand Canyon. We have stayed at all of these in the 50's while on vacations with my parents. So much traveling to do after I retire. Only 162 more days!!!

***

[siberianmo]

G’day Gents!

Quite an interesting day as the number of Posts is holding rather steady, a good sign considering we haven’t seen our friends West Coast S Dave – CFournier Chris – earlydiesels Dan – Trainnut484 Russell, and vacationing pwolfe Pete. So a ‘[tup] for those of you helping to maintain the “flow.”

*** Thanx for the money for the Wurlitzer, the quarters go directly to the Pig’s feet jar 5 plays for a quarter! Not a bad deal. Also appreciate the round – Boris ring it! [tup]

Regarding those hotels of the CP I’m sure you’ve checked out the SUMMARIES and found the INDEX section (now appearing on Monday’s only). You will note that on page 121 are the CP hotel and lodge listings, and on page 129 are those for the CN. Check ‘em out.

To get to those pages quickly, plug the number into the URL appearing at the top of your screen. Replace the one showing with whatever page you are trying to get to. It works a lot faster than using the “arrows.”

Don’t know who built the “main” lodges at Yellowstone or the south and north rims of the Grand Canyon, but if they can be traced to railroads – well done! [tup] In your research of what has been discussed, you should find several Posts on this subject as well.

Counting down to retirement can mean different things to different people. Hope it works well for you. [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Evening Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house.The El Tovar Hotel at the Grand Canyon was built by the Santa Fe and operated by them for many years.
Now Yellowstone was served by four railroads the NP, CB&Q, CMSTP&P and UP. Not sure if any of the Yellowstone Park hotels were built by any of these railroads or not.
The GN built most of the Hotels and lodges in Glacier National Park and they were only sold off shortly before the BN merger. If one looks at the Glacier series sleeping cars of the GN they were named for the glaciers found in Glacier National Park with few exceptions. I believe that Goiung To The Sun lodge in Glacier National Park is the only lodge in a National Park that can only be reached by Hiking in and that includes all of the supplies as well having to be brought in by mules or pack horses. I have heard their is a simliar lodge in the bottom of the Grand Canyon but supplies are brought in by helicopter.

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Guys,

I'm just about to check out and saw Al's Post ..... Leon the Night Man is here and will take over 'til closing time.

Thanx for the elaboration, Al on those National Park hotels insofar as connections with the RR's are concerned. So, I can "chalk up" at least one, the El Tovar. [tup] Kinda figured it was AT&SF, given that great station located at the south rim.

Back in 1953, while with the Boy Scouts en route Santa Ana, CA for a Jamboree, we stopped at Grand Canyon for the day. Came in by train from NYC. Anyway, had the chance to ride on mule back down to the bottom of the canyon. Amazing, simply amazing. Next visit - 1988 on the way home from CA upon my retirement from a 32 year career with the USCG. Stayed at the El Tovar. Memories. Also drove up to Yellowstone and stayed at their great lodge on Yellowstone Lake. The very next morning one could see the smoke from those ravaging fires of 1988. Things after that were never quite the same.

Ring the bell, Boris the round's on passengerfan Al!! [tup]

Catch ya later! [zzz]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Good evening again Tom and the boyz. Now that i'm off the clock I'll have a nice tall guiness and a round of what pleases everyone else.

Tom Not to worry I haven't petty cashed anything yet ( other than some chains and more of Boris's blue pills ) Sorryn to have lost you with my unique wording of the daze problem. [:O] Thanks for the follow up on the BAR. I have to say that it was my most favourite of the Maine roads. If I'm not mistaken the regional that took them over and runs them now uses a nice version of CPR's classic tuscan and grey [tup] Minf you it's on about a half dozen ex-amtrak F40's ( they've been doowngraded speedwise for frieght hauling )


Tom nice bit on the FM as well. Too bad that their engines were a bit ahead of their time. To manpower intensive with their opposed piston format [sigh] I suppose they should have stuck to marine engines. Mind you when you read the fleet specs on Algoma central marines lake fleet about 80% have FM power ! [tup]


*** and Al nice follow ups on the railroad hotels , resorts and national parks. I can think of a couple similar examples in Canada. Of coarse the Bamff park was brought to light by Van Horn and the CPR. In Ontario Algonquin provincial park was served by passengeer trains from both CNR ( ex Canadain Northern line ) and by the Ottawa Arnprior and Parry sound Railway, thought the latter was built by JRR Booth canada's rail baron of ill repute. Though his motivation for the park line was to allow him tp harvest it's old growth forests. Thankfully thengovt stepped in and only allowed / allows some minor managed cutting which allows for natural renewal aand regrowth. There are still stands of white and balck pine in Algonquin which are of original virgin forest 2-300 foot trees which are several hundred years old !

Lakeside park in st catharines was established as a destination for the NS&T, Likewise the L&PS set up Springbank park in London Ontario.And the LE&N set up several pavillions and dance halls at port dover to increase ridership on the east end of their interurban line.

Tom Glad you enjoyed juice #5 And contrayr to popular beleaf I am not trying to convert you guys.[swg] In fact I'm hoping that it is being at least somewhat informitive if not entertaining.[tup]

Well folks that's it for me tonight have a great rest of your evenings. Rob

[siberianmo]

FRIDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Awwwwwright, Friday has arrived! The coffee’s freshly brewed, The Mentor Village Bakery pastry case is full and our <light> breakfasts are ready to go … so, what are you waitin’ for [?]

Info for the Day:

(1) Tonight is Pizza Nite plus Steak ‘n fries.

(2) A reminder of POLICY(repeated) Those who disregard the efforts of others on a routine basis are not welcome at ”Our” Place. One-way Posts will not be acknowledged and are not appreciated ‘round here. [tdn]

INDEX Monday’s only!

Fallen Flags this week: B&M – NYNH&H – MEC – BAR and NOSTALGIA Ads for UP – 1956 Hotels – FM motive power.

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 05:32:11 (142) Thursday’s Info & Summary

(2) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 06:27:30 (142)

(3) Gunns Kevin Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 06:52:46 (142)

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 07:43:41 (142) reply to Theodorebear, etc.

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 07:45:13 (142) Fallen Flag BAR

(6) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 08:10:11 (142) morning pick-us-up!

(7) wrwatkins *** Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 08:23:29 (142)

(8) passengerfan Al Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 08:27:51 (142) The Phantom speaks!

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 08:32:04 (142) info for Nick

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 08:59:52 (142) reply to coalminer3 – wrwatkins – passengerfan

(11) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 10:40:11 (142) Inclusive Post!

(12) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 10:47:12 (142)

(13) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 11:06:58 (142)

(14) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 11:39:11 (142) Classic Juice #4 B&WSR

(15) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 14:19:05 (142) reply to trolleyboy & Theodorebear, etc.

(16) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 14:20:56 (142) Nostalgia – FM Ad

(17) wrwatkins *** Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 15:18:24 (142)

(18) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 16:54:43 (142) reply to wrwatkins

(19) passengerfan Al Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 19:55:25 (142) RR Hotels

(20) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 21:45:22 (143) reply to passengerfan

(21) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 22:12:05 (143) Inclusive Post!

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

We’ve had New England Week around here insofar as Fallen Flags are concerned: Boston & Maine – New Haven – Maine Central and Bangor & Aroostook made their appearances. Appropriately then, here’s an Encore Presentation of two Fallen Flags to provide the finishing touch for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR)
Headquarters: Philadelphia, PA

Mileage:

1950: 10,000
1962: 9,756

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 2,402
Electric: 254

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 139,356 Passenger cars: 3,546

Principal routes in 1950:

Philadelphia-Harrisburg-Pittsburgh, PA
New York-Washington, DC
Pittsburgh-Fort Wayne, IN-Chicago, IL
Pittsburgh-Indianapolis, IN-St. Louis, MO
Pittsburgh-Cleveland, OH
Baltimore, MD-Buffalo, NY
Wilmington, DE-Norfolk, VA
Chicago-Columbus, OH
Logansport, IN-Louisville, KY
Logansport-Cincinnati
Fort Wayne, IN-Mackinaw City, MI
Columbus-Toledo, OH-Detroit, MI

Passenger trains of note:

Broadway Limited (New York-Chicago)
Clevelander (New York-Cleveland)
Cincinnati Limited (New York-Cincinnati)
Colonial (Boston-Washington, joint with New Haven)
Congressional (New York-Washington)
Duquesne (New York-Pittsburgh)
Edison (New York-Washington)
The General (New York-Chicago)
Golden Triangle (Chicago-Pittsburgh)
Jeffersonian (New York-St. Louis)
Kentuckian (Chicago-Louisville)
Liberty Limited (Washington-Chicago)
Manhattan Limited (New York & Washington-Chicago)
Pennsylvania Limited (New York & Washington-Chicago)
Penn Texas (New York-Washington-St. Louis)
Pittsburgher (New York-Pittsburgh)
Red Arrow (New York-Detroit)
St. Louis (New York-Washington-St. Louis)
Senator (Boston-Washington, joint with New Haven)
“Spirit of St. Louis” (New York-St. Louis)
South Wind (Chicago-Miami, joint with L&N, ACL and Florida East Coast)
Trail Blazer (New York-Chicago)
Union (Chicago-Columbus, OH)

Of note: In the New York-Florida market, the PRR was a forwarder for many connecting passenger trains from other roads.


New York Central System (NYC)

Headquarters: New York City

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 1,965 Electric: 65

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 94,115 Passenger cars: 2,905

Principal routes in 1950:

New York-Buffalo, NY-Cleveland, OH-Chicago, IL
Buffalo-Detroit, MI-Porter, IN (Chicago)
Boston, MA-Albany, NY
Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati, OH
Gallion, OH-St. Louis, MO
Chicago-Indianapolis, IN-Cincinnati
Indianapolis-Peoria, IL
Cleveland-Pittsburgh, PA
Detroit-Toledo, OH-Springfield, OH
Toledo-Columbus, OH-Charleston, WVA
Utica, NY-Montreal, QC

Passenger trains of note:

Chicagoan (New York-Cleveland-Chicago)
Chicago Mercury (Chicago-Detroit)
Cincinnati Mercury (Cleveland-Cincinnati)
Cleveland Mercury (Detroit-Cleveland)
Cleveland Limited (New York-Cleveland)
Commodore Vanderbilt (New York-Chicago)
Detroiter (New York-Detroit)
Detroit Mercury (Cleveland-Detroit)
Empire State Express (New York-Buffalo)
James Whitcomb Riley (Chicago-Cincinnati)
Knickerbocker (New York-St. Louis)
Lake Shore Limited (New York-Cleveland-Chicago)
The Michigan (Chicago-Detroit)
Motor City Special (Chicago-Detroit)
New England States (Chicago-Cleveland-Boston)
Ohio State Limited (New York-Cleveland-Cincinnati)
Pacemaker (New York-Cleveland-Chicago)
Southwestern Limited (New York-St. Louis)
20th Century Limited (New York Chicago)
Twilight Limited (Chicago-Detroit)
Wolverine (Chicago-Detroit-New York)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G’mornin’ Gents!

A rather bleary, gloomy mornin’ in these parts. Got some needed rain, not much, but things are a bit wet ‘n windy and the leaves are twirling to the ground. Gasoline was at $2.55 (rounded) at “Collusion Corner,” which by the way is down to two stations after Shell pulled out.

I see a Post to respond to from last night:

trolleyboy Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 22:12:05

When one wanders back in time, whether it be memory or simply through historical pictures, it just boggles the mind to envision what once was regarding the passenger rail network within the U.S. and Canada. I know from what I’ve been told by a friend from Greenwood, ON that he used to travel regularly between St. Louis and Toronto without having to change trains. Of course there were changes to cars and loco’s, but he remained aboard. Once in Canada, then changes at Union Station took place to points elsewhere.

My last trip out of Toronto’s Union Station was aboard the Corridor Train bound for Montreal. I just had to swing by the gate for the “Canadian,” just to look at the Sliver & Blue (1st class) waiting area, the signage, etc. That day, the westbound wasn’t operating, for it’s only a 3 day per week departure in both directions. My wife and I had taken it over the New Year’s holiday, leaving on New Year’s Eve for Vancouver. That was our 2nd trip and the memories will always be with me. While Toronto’s Union Station is by far the better edifice, by far the look and feel of a “real” train station, I must admit that I’m very partial to Montreal’s Central Station. Not much to look at from outside. Whereas Toronto’s Union Station is indeed an imposing sight. However, once inside, then the hustle ‘n bustle of a busy, busy station comes into vogue at Central Station. Never seems to be “quiet,” and the activity is just captivating to watch along with the bi-lingual announcements for the trains – AND – the chimes. Gotta love it! [tup]

Always happy to learn that someone appreciates the Nostalgia and Fallen Flags Posts. The more of these type Posts that can be generated by us, the better the chance to stick with the theme of [Classic Trains.

Looks like it’s time for me to redo the Regular’s List at ”Our” Place. Shouldn’t be hard, for there really are only a “handful” of us keeping it going – 7 days per week.

I spent a few minutes browsing all of the Forums yesterday and didn’t find one – not one thread that interested me. The nonsense is overwhelming, along with pretty much the same guys Posting the same stuff irrespective of relevance to the topics covered by the Forum. People runnin’ up the numbers count is all it is for many and it is very, very evident. Glad we’ve been able to keep things in check ‘round here. When and if this idea runs its course, I’m through with the Forums.

Did you notice that someone called up “Canadian Passenger Railroads” the other day [?] It had been dormant for months and then – Shazam! – it appeared. Happens, but unless and until the guys who ruined it either go to the tar pits or have a change of heart, I have no intention of getting back to it. Kinda bothers me that one who creates a thread can’t totally delete it.

[yeah] Right, you’re “not” trying to rope us into the thrilling world of Trolleydom. <uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh!!> [swg]

Catch ya later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the other early risers. Just doing some crammming for upcoming exam and took a break for a few minutes. Guess I'll have a coffee and one of those diet pastries.
Nice to see the postings on the PRR and NYC. Probably the two largest passenger carriers in the nation. But due to their size they never fully streamlined their compleat fleets until the 1960's when many trains were discontinued.
I would just like to add a little more to the hotels.
The GN Western Star was the train serving Glacier National Park during the 1950's and 1960's. Often the summer consists of the train were hardly recognizable as a GN train as their were so many off line sleeping cars bound to and from the Park. The NYC, PRR and SP were among roads whose cars were often seen departing from Spokane or Chicago destined for the Park. Often summers the Western Star operated with more cars than the Empire Builder. The Western Star dropped these foreign sleeping cars at either Belton or East Glacier and many passengers used the rooms as their hotel space while visiting the park as the hotels and lodges were most often fully booked. The Western Star usually was the train that moved the sleeping cars between Belton and East Glacier for the continuation of the tours.
Although not a National Park the UP operated Ski Trains to Idaho's famed Sun Valley and owned the famed resort for many years. Passengers on the Ski Trains from Los Angeles used the trains as their winter accommodations while visiting the always full resort.
Besides the previously mentioned National Parks the GN and NP promoted Washington States Mt. Rainier and Olympic National Parks in all of the Northwest Vacation literature. On many days it was not unusual to see Gray Line sightseeing buses meeting the arriving streamliners at King St. Station Seattle destined for these two National Parks. Although neither road owned any hotels or lodges in either National Park. Well time to get back to the books.

[coalminer3]

Good Morning: !@#$% computer just dumped my post so here we go again. Round for the house, coffee for me and $ for the jukebox.

Weather here is heavy fog and abt 60 degrees. There is very little color on the trees which is starnge because this is usually our peak season. The present ownership of the former C&O branch which runs at the end of my street has been doing some roadwork lately - ballast, cribbing, etc. Pretty much all done by machine, but it's good to get out and visit with the crew when I get home from work. The rail itself, for those interestd in 130 lb. welded - not bad for a branch line.

The Bangor and Aroostook is now, as other posters have said, the Montreal, Maine and Atlantic. Their corporate website is worth a visit to see that they have an eye toward their past in terms of the logo and the fact that they have redone some cars into the State of Maine Products scheme - one of the best ever, IMHO. RailPictures.Net's site has all sorts of color shots of MM&A stuff including some spectacular snowplow pictures up around Eagle Lake.

The BAR's traffic pattern "in the day" was a little different than most roads as their big traffic rush came during the winter months as they handled solid reefer trains of potatoes from Aroostook County south to New York. This was an interline route that ran BAR-MEC-B&M-NYNH&H. It took a good bit of attention because the cars had to be heated to keep the cargo from freezing. Then, sometimes, all of this had to be changed as the cars got further south - love that New England climate. The New Haven folks, some of them at any rate, called these trains "Yellow Dogs" because of the color of the cars. This traffic was lost to trucks, especially after the rr that shall not be named swallowed the New Haven.

The BAR also had a reputation of being frugal. Therefore, they leased their power out during the warmer weather rather than have it sit around doing nothing. This is whay you would see thier locomotives turn up in strange places. It was quite common to see them on the PRR for example. These were not run through trains, despite what some of the railfan press says.

Speaking of Maine, IIRC, the CP had an operation up there called the International of Maine Division - I have some pictures of cars sublettered for that. I defer to the CP gurus in the group for details.

Mention of the Rutland with the NYC is not that far off as the NYC owned the Rutland for a time. Jim Shaughnessy's book is without peer regarding that line: one of my favorites.

You folks are giving me all sorts of prompts for future posts. I guess I'll have to get back to writing some more. I appreciate the encouragement.

Now you lay PRR and NYC on us!

One of my best PRR memories is riding the Cincinnati Limited up and over Horseshoe on a moonlit night with fresh snow on the gorund - for once my roomette was on the correct side of the train so the whole curve was laid out in the moonlight - 'nuff said. Then there was the twin unit diner on the Broadway. My dad talked one time abt going to Columbus, Ohio and riding behind double-headed K4s going over Horseshoe. Oh well.......

Here's a little something on the NYC in steam. I may have posted this awhile ago, so some of you may not have seen it - if you have, my apologies.

Mohawks - The Boston and Albany

If the New Haven and the Boston and Maine were home roads, then the Boston and Albany was the way to the west. My mother (whose limited sense of geography was legendary in the family), was convinced that anything beyond Albany was the “Middle West”, and quite possibly desert populated by Indians. She believed the Albany to be a granger road that somehow appeared from the sky and plopped down on Massachusetts. All of this was based on the fact that some of the Albany’s trains operated to exotic locales such as Cleveland, Chicago, and St. Louis.

When I was small. I pored over the Central’s ads in the National Geographic; especially the ads for the overnight trains that ran along the Hudson River from New York. An ad that stuck in my mind was a piece called “One by One the Windows Close Their Eyes.” This showed a generic moonlight river scene. A westbound train ghosted along the NYC’s immaculately maintained four track main line. It was late at night, the copy said, and people were going to bed after an elegant meal in the diner. They would arrive refreshed at their destination the next morning, well-rested after a good night’s sleep along the Water Level Route. Another favorite was a wallow in unabashed nostalgia appeared around Christmas time. This ad pictured a toy train running around a Christmas tree. The copy, written to the tune of “Jingle Bells,” ran to the effect that “Oh, what fun it is to ride on a New York Central Train!”

The reality of the NYC in New England was much different. The Central reached New England via the rails of the Boston and Albany - another flinty, gritty, blue-collar, sleeves rolled up operation.

The ancestry of the B&A went back almost to the beginning of the railroads in the United States. The Albany steadfastly maintained its independence even after it had been absorbed by the much larger New York Central. The Albany contended with terrain and weather that more closely resembled that encountered by the Baltimore and Ohio or some western railroads. People used to talk about the Boston and Maine’s Fitchburg Division being a terror in the winter, but they never had to deal with an ice-filled cut at Washington Summit or flog tired locomotives over Charlton Hill.

Most of the B&A’s trains were diesel powered when I was growing up, but a few still got steam power. My father rode the B&A when he had to travel to jobs in the western part of New England. He often came back to Boston on a local train from Springfield and sometimes my mother and grandmother would go to meet him and I would get to go along.

Newtonville was the B&A station nearest to us outside Boston. The station was about in the middle of where the Massachusetts Turnpike (I-90) is now. Back in the late 40’s, though, the Newtonville station stood at the bottom of a grass covered knoll that swept down to the tracks. Here the railroad was in space unconfined by walls or buildings. It afforded an entirely different aspect to the viewer. Westbound trains rolled through there if they were not scheduled for a station stop.

In the golden sunlight of a fall afternoon, the silvery rails of the four track B&A mainline curved away to the west. To the east was Boston and the tracks receded from the station in a forced perspective enhanced by several overpasses. Now, from the east, barely discernable, a pinpoint of light grew larger and then seemed to remain still for a long time. The light suddenly grew larger and then larger still and a faint almost singing sound was heard in the rails. Smoke was visible now above the light. The engine blasted out from beneath the overpasses and then with a couple of enormous “chugs,” passed by in a welter of hissing steam, flailing drive rods, heat, and the aroma of coal smoke, hot grease, and oil.

A quick glance in the cab window revealed the fireman hard at work in white cap and blue shirt and the engineer silhouetted in the window on the other side of the cab, one hand on the throttle and the other resting on the cab window ledge, his eyes staring intently at the track ahead. There were some filthy New York Central baggage cars behind the tender followed by coaches, a diner, and four heavyweight Pullmans. I later found that the locomotive was a Mohawk class, probably among the last in New England, and that the train was the “New England Wolverine” with cars in its consist for Detroit and Canadian cities. The train headed, its smoke hanging over the tops of the cars. The fragrance of coal smoke lingered after its passing along with a slight dusting of cinders and smaller particles. It was glorious and I lost my heart to the B&A.

work safe

[Anonymous]

WOW, the New England series culminating with the Pensy and NYC is tour de force indeed. BTW, while lingering in that "neck od the woods," has anyone seen the Kennibunkport Trolly Museum? I have made a vow to see that site before "cashing in." Tom, I think just a cinnnamon cruller topped with a drizzle of that fine Can-Am County native Maple syrup and cuppa Joe should do it. Ah, thanks.[^] There is probably no need to "split hairs" on which of the Fallen Flags still remain. For all intents and purposes, they all fell when passenger service was abandoned for the AmTrak alternative.[:(] With all due respect to AmTrak fans, personally, I think this amalgum was only an expediate to keep some vital routes alive and "only just." No offence intended to anyone but (only my opinion) the shot of that GG-1 in AmTrak livery "says it all."[2c] Like the "shadow paint" on the older standard cars; it ain't "the real McCoy."

As to Nature's latest debacle, Wilma, what is there to say? I'll not turn my home into a cript any sooner than I must. Everything is set to "board up" before Minnie and me "take a powder" for safe harbor.[tup] Why anyone would elect to "ride out" such a cataclysm really mystifies me.[xx(] Its kinda like racing that train to the Xing, eh?[(-D]

Wonderful response to the R.R. hotels, Inns and Natn'l Parks. ***, Al, Tom, Rob and earlier CM3, really painted memorable portraits which still live on 'til today. From the look of early day prices (1920's and 30's), I suppose today's expenses are not that far out of line. If anything, they may be even a bit cheaper. Our standard of living has risen to higher levels so that a moderate income today makes "all things possible." When one retires, however, and "fixed income" rules, things do change and so must our priorities. Inflation becomes the most dreaded word in the dictionary. As we all know, "inflation" is precisely what we face now due to fuel shortages. Just "a word to the wise," regarding any far reaching fiscal palnning: "Be careful!!"

Tom, there is a lot more to the FM story than I thought. It brings to mind something of a Packard sort of an analogy. Most FM road diesels I've seen were, unfortunately, "on their last legs." Oh yes, that "Rutland" misnomer probably did come from an article in a early M.R. issue. Rob, I'm going to try to find pics of the "Prarie" class cars. "Conversion?" Funny, I never thought of traction and R.R.ing as two seperate entities. Frankly, I can't imagine one without including the other. But then, as a kid there still plenty of trolleys in cities and towns. Less so the Interurbans (Radials) but still the North and South Shore lines among a few other holdouts lasted very well. And, they are making a come back, "big time." Of course, just one generation removed; street cars were very rare in major cities.

Okay, I'll stop chewing the fat for now and let you guys get to more important matters. A round for the house please Tom. Boris...Oh never mind. I guess it really "isn't easy being green."[alien]

[siberianmo]

Good Morning Gents!

A bit of activity at the bar this AM, always good to see. CM3 has sprung for the drinks, as is his custom, and provided yet another roll of quarters for our Wurlitzer! [yeah][tup] Drink up, Mates – there’s more where they came from! [swg] Go on, Boris swing on the bell rope why dontcha [?] <grin>

passengerfan Al Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 07:53:40

As always, we appreciate your timely and factual inputs regarding the subjects being discussed. The hotels of the railroads and the National Parks really fits in well with the topics of the past few days. Good job! [tup] For a change, have a drink on ME why dontcha [?]

The PRR & NYC Fallen Flags “do it” for me every time, even if they are “reruns.” Glad you liked ‘em. [tup]

coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 08:25:45

A railroad that absolutely should be included in the Fallen Flags series for New England is the Boston & Albany I wanted very much to include this, but alas, no data in my modest collection of hardcover railroad books. References here and there, but nothing with which to permit me to chronicle it the way the others have been. I’ll keep looking. However, strictly for CM3, THIS HERALD’s FOR YOU!


I think you outdid yourself with this last Post and speaking for those of us who give a Rat’s Patoot about this bar ‘n grill and attendant information exchange, you, Sir, are a most valuable customer. Thanx many times over for providing us with not only timely information, but accountings that put the reader directly into the narrative. That’s simply something to appreciate – and we do! [tup][tup][tup]

Oh yes, you've given me a great resource for research: The National Geogrpahic. We've got a CD set of 'em from 1888 thru the 1990s that contains every item in the magazines, including the ads! Thanx very much for the "tip," even if you didn't know it was one! [swg]

Glad you appreciated the inclusion of the PRR & NYC (even if reruns) for they “fit” into the weekly theme quite well.

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 09:29:25

Another day in paradise, eh [?] Will she or won’t she [?] Reminds me of the days (daze) as a teenager wonderin’ whether “she” would …… [swg] The way I figure it is every day “extra” affords y’all the time needed to make ready for the big blow – if she gets there at all. Let’s hope she doesn’t …….

Regarding the Fallen Flags seems that no matter how many times I “caveat” them, “explain” them, the comments still come back with, “But doesn’t that railroad still exist?” Of course, I’m referring to “fallen” only in the context of passenger railroading. Oh well, at least to make a comment one has to read the stuff! That’s the idea.

Today’s standard of living in America affords many of us with much, much more expendable dollars than ever before. Now, I don’t believe that the prices really are cheaper today, I think we just have sufficient bucks with which to throw at this or that, and it simply doesn’t “bother” us as much as it did way back when. I’ve seen several of those inflation gimmicky charts comparing the prices of this or that from then to now and always come away with my same conclusion – expendable bucks is what we’re talkin’ about. Anyway, I know that when those great trains were runnin’ virtually everywhere across the land, my meager pay as a lowly “white hat” didn’t provide very much for coach fare for the trains, much less a hotel room! [swg]

Catch y’all later and check out this afternoon’s NOSTALGIA piece!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]