"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[siberianmo]

THURSDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Ah, Thursday is here and we’re a day away from the end of the week! What better time than to settle in for a “pick me up” of freshly brewed coffee, some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and perhaps one of our featured <light> breakfasts! [yeah]

Info for the Day:

(1) Today is Fish ‘n Chips Nite along with Nick’s Picks!

(2) Friday is Pizza Nite as well as Steak ‘n Fries Nite!

(3) Saturday is ENCORE Day!

(4) Sunday is Photo Posting Day!

(5) Monday is Boris’ Bash and Halloween Party!

INDEX Monday’s only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Oct 20005, 06:15:36 147 Wednesday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 06:21:35 (147) Fallen Flag – Wabash

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 08:00:00 (147) reply to pwolfe Pete & trolleyboy, etc.

(4) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 08:46:55 (147) Inclusive Post – plus!

(5) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 10:50:04 (147) Quickie!

(6) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 10:50:49 (147) Daylight Inclusive Post!!

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 12:25:01 (147) reply to coalminer3 – Theodorebear – trolleyboy, etc.

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 12:27:16 (147) [navy]NOSTALGIA #14 Budd & Wabash

(9) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 15:54:34 (147) Inclusive Post!

(10) passengerfan Al Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 16:06:26 (147)

(11) pwolfe Pete Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 17:12:03 (147) Inclusive Post!

(12) pwolfe Pete Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 17:46:45 (147)

(13) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 18:59:08 (147)

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 19:06:48 (147) reply to Theodorebear – passengerfan – pwolfe, etc.

(15) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 19:49:32 (147) He’s baaaaaaack – again!

(16) earlydiesels Dan Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 19:53:19 (147) He’s baaaaaaack – again!

(17) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 21:37:52 (147) reply to nickinwestwales & earlydiesels

(18) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 23:10:19 (147) Inclusive Post!

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Chesapeake & Ohio (C&O)

Headquarters: Richmond, VA

Mileage in 1950:

5,343 (including ferries)

Locomotives in 1963:

Steam: 3 (fireless “cookers”)
Diesel: 1,053

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 92,992
Passenger cars: 324

Principal routes in 1950:

Chicago-Cincinnati, OH-Ashland, KY-Staunton, VA-Newport News, VA
Gordonsville, VA-Washington, DC
Clifton Forge-Richmond VA
Ashland-Louisville, KY
Limeville (Ashland)-Columbus, OH-Toledo, OH
Columbus-Pomeroy, OH
Catlettsburg (Ashland)-Elkhorn City, KY
Ronceverte-Durbin & Bartow, WV
Chicago-Grand Rapids, MI-Detroit, MI-St. Thomas, ON-Buffalo & Niagra Falls, NY
Grand Rapids-Petoskey & Bay View, MI
Erieau, ON-Ludington, MI
Ludington-Milwaukee & Manitowoc & Kewaunee, WI (ferry routes to each from Ludington)
Toledo-Bay City, MI
Port Huron-Bay City-Elmdale, MI
Holland-Muskegon-Hart, MI

Passenger trains of note:

George Washington (Washington & Newport News-Cincinnati & Louisville)
F.F.V. (Washington & Newport News-Cincinnati & Louisville)
Sportsman (Washington & Newport News-Cincinnati & Detroit)
Pere Marquettes (Detroit-Grand Rapids; Chicago-Grand Rapids & Muskegon; Detroit-Saginaw, MI)
Resort Special (Chicago-Petoskey; later, Washington-White Sulphur Springs, WV)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

Mornin' All,

I see there's just one night owl to respond to this fine day. Gonna be close to 60 (F) in these parts; blue skies, white "puffy" clouds - nice all 'round. Gas in holding at $.245 (rounded) - baseball is OVER - congrats to the White Sox! [tup] And for Astro's fans - WE know how it feels to drop 4 straight in the World Series! Ain't good. [tdn]

Now to the acknowldgement:

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 23:10:19

Good choice to go with 22" radius track when there's any choice at all. Speaking of track, when I began my HO interests over again, I really started with a fresh approach. All of my brass track is sitting in boxes - and I'm talkin' 'bout hundreds of track sections of "snap" track and flexible stuff as well, along with over 30 turnouts (remote). The Can-Am is all nickel silver and I'm not at all displeased with the change. There is a veritible treasure trove of "stuff" - bumpers - controllers - rail joiners - switch machines, etc. I honestly don't know why I'm keepin' any of it ......... If I knew someone with the "need," I'd more than likely give it away - but it would have to be more than someone looking for something for nothing, if you follow my drift.

Nice elaboration on the Wabash, NS, etc. It's amazin' just how much info each of us has to contribute to these discussions! [tup] And by the by - nice inclusive Post - as always.

In keeping with my "policy," I'll check back in about 4 hours or so to see if we've had any submissions ........

SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND: By now you all know that first thing in the morning you should expect to see the SUMMARY followed by the Fallen Flag for the day, and then my "acknowledgements" of the late night Posts. (The latter may or may not be Posted right away ....) So, when you log on and do NOT see these daily Posts of mine - you are not getting the most current Forum info available. Try the reload or go to the "Active Topics" selection (red bar at the top) and select "last 12 hours." It's worth a try IF you want to see the latest "stuff" ........

So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

Happy Thursday morning everyone. Tom, I think a cuppa strong Joe and a Cinnamon Roll should "put out the fire" this beautiful Morn. Rob, I too couldn't believe the "upside down" frames.[:O] The Wal-Mart employees at the Photo Center seemed very young and inexperienced. If I returned the discs for correction, who knows what may have been the result?[:(!] Your plans for the lower level make a lot of sense Rob. I'm thinking of adding a removable span across "no man's land" (Misourri River) to accomodate a "El" line to Kcity, Kansas. Such a bridge did exist in the days of yore.

Ah yes, the C & O! WOW, was I upset when three B & O stocks went for two C & O shares.[V] Then, the crowning "insult to injury" was the new C.S.X. moniker. How could the oldest and highly revered Road in the U.S. fall to such an ingnomious state? My only impression of the C & O were the endless hopper loads of coal snaking through the hills and mountains of the Southeast.[zzz] However, if anyone cares to glance at the C. & O steam roster; you just gotta say, EGADS! [aside] My cat Minnie is a twin to the Chessie Kitty logo. She even has her own pillow as per the ads. Another fine Posting Tom, thanks.[tup] The Budd memorabilia is "out-a-sight" too.

[C=:-)] Nick, great to see you after the gruelling business of recording and editing for a "Master." I always dreaded our recording sessions when they came up.[V] Its tedious, nervous work getting a 20 or 80 piece band with vocals (chorus/soloists) in perfect "sync." BTW, "analog" is "where its' at."[2c] [#offtopic]Hit that "ding dong" Boris, I'm buying. I guess you know by now that your assistant celebrates his [bday] Monday (Oct 31). Perhaps you could find an appropriate entree in his honor?[alien] Tornadoes of Carpathian Yak road apples flambe per chance?[xx(]

Hey earlydiesels, you "read my mind" with your comments on the Alcos and a preference for "narrative" type dialogue. You just can't beat a good R.R. yarn over a "Hot Buttered Rum" on a cold blustery evening by the fire place. All Members are encouraged to summons up a "colorful" tale at the Halloween Bash, or anytime else for that matter.[^]

Passengerfan and CM3, as always, you two add a world of helpful data and 3-D mental imagery respectively.[tup] [tup] [tup] I had no idea the Wabash had that many "firsts" to its' credit. Rob, I'm still trying to untangle the interaction with the Wabash- -Canadian "connection," PHEW! Seems the more I know; the more I don't know...HUH? Okay, its that time again.[banghead] I must get more done on the garage side of model R.R.ing. Please plan on dropping in Halloween for a good time watching Boris unwrap savage his presents open, if nothing else.[:O] Happy rails all.

[coalminer3]

Good Morning All: Coffee, please, round for the house and some $for the jukebox.

Now we have C&O? Excellent. Lots of stories there in the notebooks, too. You guys are making me go back and start putting some material together.

Re the N&W-Wabash combination. Locals here said that N&W stood for "Nickel Plate and Wabash." The Wabash had some most interesting looking cabs with a "sort of" streamline cupola. They appeared in Bluefield every so often. I always thought the "Follow the Flag" logo was one of the better ones out there. By the way, issue 133 of Railroad History was all Wabash with an excellent locomotive roster. Now let's loop back to the NP. The title of the book I mentioned is Dining Car Line to the Pacific: An Illustrated History of the NP Railway's Famously Good Food. I do not know if it is still in print.

Speaking of dining in the west, here's a wonderfully florid piece of ad copy re Fred Harvey service on the Santa Fe. As best as I can tell it is from about 1930. They just don't write 'em like this anymore. The train nos. and names alone are worth the reading.

Santa Fe/Fred Harvey Railway Meal Service - It Stands Alone

The Santa Fe Dining Station Service, managed by Fred Harvey, is a distinctive feature of this Railroad.

Conceived with high ideals and proceeding consistently upon the principle that nothing but the best is satisfactory, it is an examples of a complete unit developed with rare genius by a master caterer working for superiority, It has been almost fifty years in the building.

Convinced of the value of an outstanding service of this character, the Santa Fe early provided appropriate locations for its dining-stations, affording sufficient frequency to meet varying schedules and emergencies, and determined to feature such stations in the character if its improvements and the standard of its service.

Each year refinements have been introduced and important improvements effected until today, in consequence of wise foresight and the pursuit of broad liberal policies, the Santa Fe Dining Station System has a achieved a reputation for excellence and efficiency in providing for the wants of the overland traveler which has become international and without a parallel in American railroading.

Trains 9 and 2 – the Navajo – Nos. 1 and 10 – The Scout – Nos. 21 and 22 – The Missionary – and No. 8 – the Hopi are served at dining-stations west of Kansas City. These dining-stations are located about 125 miles apart and ample time is allowed for meals – the average stop being about thirty minutes. The dollar table d’hote meals have no equal the world over. East of Kansas City meals for these trains are served in dining cars.

For those desiring a light repast, there are lunch room with a la carte service, operated in connection with the dining-rooms, serving same quality of food.

Trains 3 and 4, the California Limiteds, and Nos. 23 and 24, the Grand Canyon Limiteds, carry a dining-car through between Chicago and Los Angeles. Frequently these trains are stopped at dining-stations for the evening meal, offering patrons choice of dining either aboard the train or at one of our artistic station-hotels – a unique feature.

Trains Nos. 19 and 20 – The Chief – carry a dining-car through between Chicago and Los Angeles.

1930 – Santa Fe ad copy.

work safe

[siberianmo]

G’day!

Nearin’ mid-day and a bit quiet ‘round here since our two early mornin’ visitors. Technically one was a “staffer,” but with nothing to do in that area, his presence was strictly as a patron this fine day.

Spent a bit of the mornin’ a competitor’s place for breakfast with a friend of mine. Noticed that gasoline was at $2.35 (rounded) – that’s 13 cents down from yesterday. Go figure, as the kids would say!

Okay – time for some acknowledgements for Theodorebear Ted & coalminer3 CM3:

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 08:26:23

Another Inclusive Post! which is appreciated and encouraged ‘round here. [tup]

As one who never had the funds to “dabble in the market,” the rise and fall of stocks, railroad or others, never made the impact on me that it would have had I been an investor. What bothered me greatly was when those railroads went under. If you’ve ever watched a ship sink, then you may understand what I’m talkin’ ‘bout. Once she goes under and the last of the waves turn to ripples, it’s almost as if she was never there …….

Presents for Boris [?] Well, since I have been the one who has provided him with his clothing, meals and place to sleep – a few suggestions are in order: New boondockers (he requires two LEFT w/steel toes in size 17.5 ultra-wide US); new bedding that is “shred proof,” and perhaps a 50 lb sack of “Alpo,” his favorite before sleep snack. Now, he also has a fascination with flashlights, so something rather sturdy and long lasting in terms of battery power would be nice. The Mentor Village Constabulary would appreciate any help, given that every time one of their officers shows up, the first thing that “goes” is the flashlight, followed by screams originating from the “powder” room. Oh, he’s such a “kidder!” [}:)][:-,] Finally, he has been talkin’ ‘bout a “pet” for some time, something that he would have a difficult time digesting. I’ve been thinkin’ of perhaps an Armadillo. There’s a place out back for it ……. [swg]

coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 08:30:43

Looks as if we’ve got you all over the board this mornin’ – talk of C&O, Wabash, N&W, NP and Santa Fe in connection with Fred Harvey. Better be careful or you’ll be havin’ to hit the reset button for the overload that is sure to come! [swg]

As is the case more times than not ‘round here, I learn somethin’ quite new almost every day. I never knew of those long distance trains in the U.S. stopping off at the Santa Fe Dining stations in order to provide meal service for the traveling folks. Always figured it was a “given” that they’d dine aboard the train. Interesting stuff ….. thanx! [tup]

In my research for the C&O, I came across a great photo in a magazine ad of the New River Gorge taken from Hawks, Nest, WV. What a shot and what a beautiful scene it is. So if my short term memory is still functioning, the spans are the ones people jump from on their annual practice of madness [?] Crazy. Unfortunately, the quality of the photo is such that any attempt to copy it for Posting would be a waste of time. Pity.

Anyway, back to that ad text, it is indeed something to appreciate. You are correct, Sir, they don’t write ‘em like that anymore.

Appreciate the round and quarters for the Wurltizer! [tup][tup]

By the by, would you send me an Email[?] I’d like to drop a few thoughts your way … thanx!

Okay guys, next up is the NOSTALGIA piece followed by about a 4 hour absence from Posting by the barkeep. Oh, I’ll still be servin’, but the rest is up to y’all! [swg]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #15

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the C&O from a 1940 advertisement found in one of my scrap books.


YOU’LL WISH YOU COULD LOOK both ways AT ONCE!

EXPERIENCED TRAVELERS call it “The most beautiful train trip in the East,” this mountain-and-canyon route of Chesapeake and Ohio Lines. On this magnificent journey you look out and down upon waves of mountains – the majestic Alleghanies, the mysteriously tinted Blue Ridge . . . upon valleys stretching like bright carpets to the far, purple hills. The scene changes – and you look up the towering green walls of the New River Gorge as you roll smoothly through the widest and deepest canyon this side of the Rockies. Yes, when you watch this panorama of thrilling beauty from your train windows, you’ll wish you could look both ways at once!

On your next trip east or west GO CHESAPEAKE AND OHIO . . . and enjoy glorious mountain country!

You’ll travel in complete comfort, on the smoothest of roadbeds, in cool, clean air-conditioned cars that invite you to relax by day and Sleep Like a Kitten at night . . . When you travel west or east, plan to ride through The Chessie Corridor on these famous trains- THE GEORGE WASHINGTON – THE SPORTSMAN – THE F. F. V.

Sleep like a Kitten

THE CHESSIE CORRIDOR, The Scenic Route of the East
A NEW BOOK on Chessies Travel Packages will help you plan interesting, economic trips. Write for free copy to Chesapeake and Ohio Travel Services, 829 East Main St., Richmond, Va.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . George Washington’s Railroad . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
CHESAPEAKE and OHIO Lines
Original Predecessor Company Founded by George Washington in 1785

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house.
Thanks for the fine tribute to the C&O and their fine passenger trains.
No railroad had such a leader of vision as the C&O following WW II. For it was Robert R. Young who brought more innovative streamlined passenger equipment to the railroad scene than any other RR. First their was the stillborn CHESSIE trains that never entered service from Budd complete with their massive turbine locomotives . All of the 46 cars buit for the CHESSIE all but 4 were sold to other railroads and many of those cars went to Amtrak.

Then the C&O ordered 290 cars from P/S that were some of the finest to grace the rails. Unfortunately the C&O never needed anything like that many cars for the passenger services they operated.. Many of the cars from the order were cancelled others were built and sent direct to other roads and and the C&O took delivery of 151. Many of these were later sold to other roads as well. all eight of the twin unit dining cars were delivered to the C&O but sold to the IC NYC and ACL without ever operating on the C&O. The D&RGW operated 22 of the planned C&O cars that were being built for the C&O but were diverted while under construction to the Colorado road. The cars the C&O kept did not inclue any head end cars and when one watched any of the otherwise streamlijned trains pass I for one always wondered why the heavyweight head end cars in an otherwise beautiful streamlined consist. A surprising number of the P/S cars ended up in Amtrak ownership. The one problem with the C&O cars was with the fluted stainless steel panels below the windows of the new cars. They coroded the corten steel behind from washing and the weather. SP had the same problem with their similarly built P/S cars and repalced the Corten steel sides with stainless steel a costly undertaking. C&O instead chose to discard the fluted stainless panels and replace the Corten steel below and simply painted the finished car sides. Pullman Standard never learned how to build Stainless steel cars until they built the Superliners. They were to proud to pay Budd a royalty on the patented shot weld process.
Ta Ta for now back to the books.

[siberianmo]

Hi Al

Appreciate the expanded info on the C&O but even moreso on the Post itself. Nearly 6 hours elapsed between my NOSTALGIA piece and your comments. That's far too long for the daytime hours 'round here ... what to do, what to do! [?] [%-)][%-)][%-)]

Tell us more about those twin unit dining cars. I've never heard of 'em .... Also, hour mention of the 290 car order from Pullman-Standard makes me wonder what types of passenger cars were they [?] Most of us think Budd had the market "cornered" for the manufacture of passenger cars, but as you alluded to, P/S was in the game for a long time as well.

Do you happen to know how Bombardier got in the act for the manufacture of Superliners [?] Did they buy out P/S [?]

Thanx for the round! Looks like pwolfe Pete is browsing 'round, so he'll appreciate a cold one!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Evening Tom Time for a CR and a round for the house. Tom you were absolutely right about Bombardier buying out P/S for the second Superliner order.

As great as the Budd cars were Pullman Standard constructed over twice as many lightweight streamlined cars.
The Twin unit dining cars built for the C&O had one unit that was all Dining Car with table seating only and the other car featured the Kitchen and Crew Dormitory space.

And you asked for car types well her goes.
9 Baggage cars 3 built and delivered to D&RGW
8-RPO car none built
13 Baggage 30' RPO 3 built for D&RGW
13 Baggage 32 Seat Coaches 1-built for C&O two finished as Baggage Crew Dormitory for D&RGW
19 Coach Telephone Lunch Counter cars none built
80 52-seat Coaches 67 built 59 to C&O 8 to D&RGW
14-Sets Dormitory Kitchen & Dining Room Cars Twin Units eight built for C&O but never entered C&O service 2 sets went to IC for Panama Limited Two sets went to ACL and the other four went to NYC.
10 Single unit dining cars 2 built for D&RGW
4 Parlor Cars delivered to C&O
4 Lunch Counter Tavern Lounge Cars 1 to C&O three to D&RGW
75 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars All were built 5 direct to IC 10 to B&O 4 to D&RGW 56 to C&O
5 11-Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars all built and delivered to C&O.
7 Sleeper Buffet Lounge Observations 8 actually built and delivered to C&O with four going to the B&O
2 Round end Sleeper Buffet Lounge Observations none built
8 Sleeper Lounge Observations none built
4 tavern Lounge Observation none built.

Hope this answers some of your questions. By the way forgot to mention that AC&F was third in lightweight streamlined car construction and St. Louis Car was fourth. Milwaukee Road constructed more lightweight streamlined cars for their own use than St. Louis Car constructed for the few railroads that ordered cars from them. The PRR also produced a large number of their own cars. And several other roads did the same including Canadian Pacific.
Ta Ta For Now.

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of the usual and some of[C=:-)]NICK'S Fish and Chips for later please.I had some at YE OLDE ENGLISH FISH AND CHIP SHOPPE in a town near Providence very nice but there were no mushy peas.

Thanks TOM for the links on the WABASH and DAN for the extra info.

Another great flag and additional info by PASSENGERFAN AL CM3 andTED The Chessie kitten logo must surely be one of the best ever used by a railway company.

How is it that the ads in those days can paint a far better picture than the visual ones on T.V. today [%-)][sigh].

TOM what is a COOKER loco[?].

ROB Looking forward to more info on the streetcars. The trams as we called them had all gone in the U.K. around my area so I know little about them. Its great that Classic Trains features the good photos of them.

TED A little more info on the JONES TRAIN. It will run on a 130 foot circle of track in K.C . Union Station on Wednesdays to Sundays NOV 16 to JAN15. It did not say what the original power was but they say it will now have a battery-powered golf-cart motor.
Perhaps TOM and I can go over when it is running and take some photos.

With the British PULLMANS I wonder if you could give me a hand NICK[?][tup]

One of the most well known, almost legendary ones was the BRIGHTON BELLE. It ran from 1930's until 1973. It was formed of 5-car 750 volt third rail electric multiple units often coupled in pairs the livery was the Pullman Umber and cream, with the Pullman crest on the front of the units. In its final years they suffered the indignity of being painted in B.R. blue and white with full yellow ends [V]. These trains were very popular with the acting community and famous for the kippers served at breakfast .

Some of the cars run in the V.S.O.E. all classic Pullman train which runs now.
The Belle was scheduled to run Brighton to London in 58 minutes for the 50 miles.
As a footnote last month a new record was set up with the new class 377 E.M.U.s of
36 minutes 56.5 seconds for the 50.5 miles. on a specially cleared line.

In the 50;s on Briti***.V. there was sometimes a gap in programmes, one of the short films shown was London to Brighton in 4 minutes, filmed in the 30,s or 40's from the cab of a E.M.U. with plenty of steam about.

Another pint please TOM and [dinner] PETE>

[siberianmo]

Good Evenin’ Gents!

A couple of acknowledgements are in order:

passengerfan Al
Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 19:50:29

Thanx Al for that run down on the P/S passenger cars. Very impressive and educational. Also, now that you’ve explained it, I do recall experiencing one of those twin unit diners; can’t pin it down to a particular road, but I do remember the full length diner, with no kitchen facilities.

Are you aware of any of those P/S cars that are still in operation with Amtrak or other roads [?]

Doesn’t it just boggle the mind to think that “once upon a time” this country had four major passenger car manufacturers and “poof” then there were NONE! [?]

I’ll take one of those rounds – thank you very much! Boris ring it! [swg] Just gets to me when I think about how many careers, professions and skilled jobs went down the tubes with the demise of the American passenger railroads. [tdn]

I’m sure you meant to say, “As great as the Budd cars ARE …..” given they are still goin’ strong north of the 49th! [tup]

pwolfe Pete
Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 19:59:39

Check out this URL for the “cooker” info: [swg]
http://www.trainweb.org/tusp/news/fireless.html

I must ask, why was this asked of moi [?]

Appreciate the info on the Pullmans in Great Britain; I had no clue ….

Always happy to hear that the Fallen Flags are “flickin’ some switches” out there. That’s the point, after all ……. The idea behind them was to stimulate interest in our thread and conversation amongst those of us who give a Rat’s Patoot. [tup]

Yes, we really should get movin’ on that KCity trip – unfortunately as the daylight wanes into winter’s long nights, much of the return leg will be rather dark. Come to think of it, this comin’ Saturday is the beginning of Standard Time – move the clock BACK one hour. Ugh, the march toward the shortest day of the year continues. [tdn]

My guess is this will pretty much “do it” for me this night, as Leon the Night Man should be ambling in any time now.

Catch ya in the ‘morrow …….. [zzz]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Good evening folks. Leon I'll grab a CR and some left over fish,n,chips. hmmmm no Nick's pics[:(]


Tom Another fine fallen flag sir. Though I agree with Ted when I hear about the C&O the first thing I think about is loooong strings of grubby coal hoppers. Funny how one's mind pigeon holes things like that. I feel that I'm becomming a bit of a broken record but the C&O paid call to southern ontario with frieght trains as well. Most came via the Pere marquette routes in and anround Sarnia and St thomas. CSX ( I won't use the impolite term I have for them ) still serves the Petro chemical plants in and around Sarnia.


I too ahd a whole lot of old brass track lying about. I ended up donating it to a local cub scout group who were building a layout ( railroader badge ) Perhaps you could find a similar home for yours. I suppose that ebay could be an option too,one see's a fair bit of it for sale there. Just a thought. I'm like you though you want to see things like that go to a good home. [tup]

I'm not sure that an armadillo is a best first pet for Boris. Perhaps a porcupine would be a better choice, just as inedible and having a similar personality. Mind you Boris's inflateable freinds may not appreciate one though.[:O][xx(]

Ted A removable bridge sounds like a good idea there[tup] Wouldn't want your passengers swimming accross the void [swg][swg]

The wabash in the peninsula was strictly a run a accross from Buffalo and transfer cars with CN. They would fuel and turn steam locomotives in Fort Erie at the CNR facilities they evn stored a couple of Mikes there. The only real joint ownership they had came after the Mergers it was a CN / NS deal.


Al [bow] Wow wonderfull information sir [tup]

[b] CM3 i thought that you were going to rupture something the way you were bouncing from RR to RR. Great stuff however[tup] Amazing the level of service the Santa Fe gave their passengers. Imagine that kind of service today. This is an example of why the classic railways remain ever loved even after they merge out of existance.

[b] Pete Those British Pullmans sounded like grand trains in their day.[tup] Good example of how a well engineered and designed railway ( electric or otherwise ) can truly compete with commersial shorthaul flights and dirty highway systems. One wonders why we do what we do here. [sigh] Thamks for the thumbs up on the trolley info watch my next post . I'll try to show the later improvements with the Peter Witt cars made to the idea put forth by Mitten, with the Nearside cars.

That catches me up for now be back shortly.

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Okay now for the next installment of ... Classic Juice...
The Peter Witt Story

As previously disscussed . Mr Mitten's nearside car improved the continents ( NA) street railway system,by instituting the PAYE or pay enter way of collecting fares. This improved rider safety by where the cars would stop and improved the street railways bottom lines by #1 getting fares ( in the daysof the conductor walking up an down the side running boards with the "coffee canb" fare box was not only inefficient but many a rider could and would jump on or off woth out paying. And #2 by having a fixed farebox the conductor could conduct there by giving better service to the riders, transfers stop information etc etc.


In 1912 a young man by the name of Peter Witt was elcted to the possition of Traction Commissioner for the Cleveland Railways. He was always seeking ways to improve ridership and ruder satisfaction. The one major drawback of the PAYE cars was that they tended to have very long dwell times at stops. With passengers entering amd exiting the cars via the same doors paying the conductor etc. Some people were still amaging to not pay and the exsessive wait times slowed down the flow of traffic and the shcedules of the transit system.

So he devised a car design which modifed the cars in that the rear doors were moved to the center of the car. Passengers would enter the front move back to the conductors position just in front of the centre doors where he collected the fares. The conductor controlled the center doors which were the exit.

Thus pay as you pass came to be. It sped up the dwell times, and ensured that all fares were collected and transfers meeted out.

Peter Witt supervised the first cars construction at the Cleveland railways Lakeview shops in 1914. The first of these new cars came into service on Dec 1 1914. As built they had longitudinal seats in the front section , followed by cross seats in the rear. Thes cars were also built as single ended controls with two man crew operator and conductor. As more and more of these cars enterd service officials from the other street railway systems came to look at them and quickly began producing simialr cars for their own systems. These cars came to be known as "Witt" cars on the major systems of North America. In Cleveland they were known simply as the "Car Riders Car "

Many street railways built there own cars to this design and Brill , Can Car Ottawa car Company , Preston Car and Coach, Kuhlman and others began producing this type of car under license. Peter Witt recieved a royalty of $10 per car built outside of the Cleveland shops.

Thes cars served all the Major and some of the minor systems. Including Detroit ,Chicago,Kansas City,Providense, Toronto ( 375 cars 75 trailers ),Baltimore,Cleveland, Buffalo , Rochester NY ,Toledo,Birmingham,Kitchener waterloo (ex Cleveland Cars) Regina ( EX KW cars ! ),aand likley several others.

Witts came in two sizes. The Large or standard Witt were 53'0" long 8'5" wide and 12' tall ( rail to trolleyboards ) these cars were lower geared and had strait pipping for trailer hauling. They could and did run solo as well. Few street railways used the trailer cars. The small Witt was 47'0" same height and width but were geared for higher speeds. Single service cars( hauled no trailers) used for rush hour and lighter use lines. From what I can gather Toronto was the only company to have the two types of Witts ( as an aside our museum has 4 toronto witt's two large and two small )

The Witt cars ran for years in Cleveland from 1914 to the early 50's in Toronto from 1921 to 1966. Similar life spans were enjoyed else where. Not untill the PCC car came about in 1936 was there such a universal streetcar design. The PCC continued the Pay as you pass method of fair collecting which is still in use today. Most Witts were converted to single man operations in the 30's and 40's with the farebox moubted bus style beside the operator. Rear tredle doors were installed as well as operator control of the rear doors once they were converted to single crew. As with Birney safety cars the tredles or operator center or front door controls could not be operated while the car was moving. Deadman switch controllers were also part of the safety package as well.

So there you have it the Peter Witt, the car and the man. If you got to my railimages account you can see several pictures of our museums Peter witt's. Large witt 2424 ( lovingly refered to as Bertha or the beer car ) and small Witt's 2786 and 2894.

Rob

[siberianmo]

FRIDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Good Mornin' - The end of the week is finally here! [yeah] Coffee's hot, so let's get started ......

Info for the Day:

(1) Today is Pizza Nite as well as Steak ‘n Fries Nite!

(2) Saturday is ENCORE Day!

(3) Sunday is Photo Posting Day! THE BAR IS CLOSED!

(4) Monday is Boris’ Bash and Halloween Party!

INDEX Monday’s only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 05:43:20 (147) Thursday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 05:45:20 (148) Fallen Flag – C&O

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 07:26:22 (148) reply to trolleyboy

(3) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 08:26:23 (148) Inclusive Post!

(4) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 08:30:43 (148) Pick-us-up Post!

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 11:57:08 (148) reply to Theodorebear & coalminer3

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 11:58:56 (148) NOSTALGIA #15 – Ad C&O

(7) passengerfan Al Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 17:41:21 (148) C&O

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 18:49:01 (148) reply to passengerfan

(9) passengerfan Al Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 19:50:29 (148)

(10) pwolfe Pete Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 19:59:39 (148) Inclusive Post!

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 20:38:30 (148) reply to passengerfan & pwolfe

(12) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 22:42:49 (148) Inclusive Post!

(13) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 23:28:55 (148) Classic Juice – Peter Witt

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Kansas City Southern (KCS)

Headquarters: Kansas City, MO

Mileage:

1950: 962
2000: 2,995

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 121

Rolling stock in1963:

Freight cars; 581
Passenger cars: 22

Principal routes in 1950:

Kansas City, MO-Shreveport, LA-Port Arthur, TX
Dallas, TX-Shreveport-New Orleans, LA
Minden-Alexander, LA

Passenger trains of note:

Flying Crow (Kansas City-New Orleans & Port Arthur)
Shreveporter (Hope-Shreveport)
Southern Belle (Kansas City-New Orleans & Port Arthur)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

Hi Guys!

SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND: By now you all know that first thing in the morning you should expect to see the SUMMARY followed by the Fallen Flag for the day, and then my "acknowledgements" of the late night Posts. (The latter may or may not be Posted right away ....) So, when you log on and do NOT see these daily Posts of mine - you are not getting the most current Forum info available. Try the reload or go to the "Active Topics" selection (red bar at the top) and select "last 12 hours." It's worth a try IF you want to see the latest "stuff" ........

So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom

[Anonymous]

I've decided to switch from O gauge to HO. Any suggestions as to how to disburse/sell my collection of mainly Lionel?

[siberianmo]

Mornin’ Gents!

Acknowledgement time for the late night Posts:

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 22:42:49

One of the nice things about those Fallen Flags are the images which pop up into our respective memories. They are all different and reflect our personal recollections of “this or that” regarding the railroad being discussed. For me, the C&O brings to mind long strings of matching passenger cars – smoothsides – that great yellow/blue/light blue (grey) – livery. Powered of course by some equally matching “Fs” in the A-B-A configuration. [yeah] Nice, huh [?] Always good to think about those railroads, even if they live only in the Ether ……

Appreciate the suggestion regarding donating my “stuff” …. These days (daze) ‘round these parts, Scouting seems to be a “fleeting thing” for many. The troops and packs are hardly anything one can rely upon to be “there” for any length of time. I’m looking for more stability and permanence for the “stuff,” unfortunately the model RR clubs I’m aware of are not interested in brass, especially the types I have. Thanx! [utp]

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 23:28:55

Never to old to learn – and this installment of your Classic Juice will be included in the Monday Index as #7! [tup][tup]

Didn’t see St. Louis listed in that run down – what kind of cars did they use ‘round these parts in the era you focused on [?] A couple of guys that I used to associate with were really “into” streetcars and I mean “into” ‘em. For whatever the reason, I just couldn’t share their enthusiasm – although after my Dallas adventure, that’s all changed! [tup] Our Museum of Transporation has an operating car – check out: http://www.museumoftransport.org/fun.htm

Thanx for the Posts, Rob – it sure appears that only a few of us are keeping this thread up ‘n runnin’ throughout the day ‘n night. The “Inner Circle” is tightenin’ up ……. Kinda like one’s shorts gettin’ in a knot! [swg]

I’ll check back in about 4 hours or so ……..

So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tomand the rest of the gang. Time for a cup of coffee and a diet pastry from the Mentor Bakery.

Thanks for the fallen flag report on the KCS.

The first (lightweight) streamlined Southern Belles entered service September 2, 1940 and needed three sets of equipment to provide daily service between Kansas City and New Orleans. North of Shreveport the trains initially coach only with rebuilt heavyweight sleeping cars operating in the overnight portion of the trip between New Orleans and Shrevepot only. North of Shreveport the consists were Baggage RPO Crew Dormitory Car, Coach and Dining Parlor Observation. The three cars were assigned a single E3 or E6 for power. South of Shreveport the tarin were five cars in length with an additional coach added and the modernized heavyweight sleeping car added. Three additional modernized heavyweight sleeping cars were delivered in February 1941 and the trains then carried a through sleeping car between New Orleans and Kansas City. The trains south of Shreveport then operated with two modernized heavyweight sleeping cars and a second coach. At that time the trains were six cars south of Shreveport and the single E unit was ample power for the expanded consists.

Following WW II the track was improved to the point where only two consists were required and new equipment was delivered in late 1948 and the beginning of 1949 for the new Southern Belles.
A typical Southern Belle at that time follows,

E-Unit for power
67 Baggage 15' RPO 12 crew Dormitory
239 KANSAS CITY 62 Revenue Seat Divided Coach
241 SHREVEPORT 60 Revenue Seat Coach
243 BATON ROUGE 60-Revenue Seat Coach (Shreveport - New Orleans only)
57 OLD PLANTATION 36-Seat Dining Car
ARTHUR STILLWELL 14 Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
JOB EDSON 14-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Shreveport - New Orleans only)
HOSPITALITY Tavern Lounge Observation

At least two of the former P/S built 14-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom cars were purchased by Amtrak ARTHUR STILLWELL and COLONEL FORDYCE.

Ta Ta for now

[trolleyboy]

Morning Tom ( yes the morning bit isn't a miss print [swg] )

I would say the threads alive and kicking, we are just writing longer posts so theres less numbers but more filling in the sandwiches[tup][swg Speaking of food I'll grab myself a coffee and some of the mentor's bagels.


Too bad your local Scout troops aren't that solidly based. I suppose that it's hard to pry the kids away from their other activities to go into Scouting anymore. Same uop here not as many troops or good leadres anymore [sigh] To bad really I still think that there is a place for scouting today.


As to St Louis, they may very well have had Witt cars. If not by design many of their older Brill and PS Brill clones would likley have been converted to pay as you pass fare collecting. One found that many streetrailways opted to convert rather than build new where possible. St Louis did by heavily into the PCC cars in the 30's. ( St Louis Car Company and PS ) were the major builders of this type of car. You will find that if there was a local manufacturer the street railway companies would more oft than not heavily support tthe local builders with orders.

Chicago's street system and El bought a lot of PS built equipment. Toronto built as locally as possible going with Ottawa or Preston car and Coach which incidentally J.G. Brill purposley bought out in 1920 so they could build cars for Canada. With a Canadian plant they didn't have as many import taxes and duties slapped on their product. So the Preston built large Witts ( 50 cars large Witt type ) were just about the last cars built by the old Preston Car and Coach / Canadian Brill. The plant closed in 1922 after building 25 single truck Birney's for the Guelph radial and the Windsor Sandwich and Exeter railway. Most of this order was actually built at the main Brill plant in Philly.

Well I'll leave a you some money for a round for the lunsh crowd. I'll try to pop back in later this evening.

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Oh back again quickley.

Tom I had not much to add to today's fallen flag. I know that before CN's swallowing of the Illinois Centra they spent a lot of time working with the KCS to get to the Gulph of Mexico ports and industries etc. I know that for a time the CN brain trust was debating about which of the two to merge with. ( read take over )

On a semi classic note CN did sell several of their old GP40-2W units to KCS. These are classics in that they are the only GP40 series locomotives built with full width cabs abd noses ala todays modern locomotives. These Canadian cabs as they were called then were a bit of an oddity at the time. Now of coarse the North American cab as it's known now is of coasre standard fare on new locomotives. A little classic trivia I suppose, ab early 1970's view into the future. CN put wifecabes on G(40-2 , GP38-2 and SD40-2 models in the early to mid seventies. This cab type was also built into the MLW / Bombardier frieght locomotives built at the time as well. M420 / HR412 and HR616 series locomotives. This all built in a span of 1972-1983. I figure that 25-30 years back counts as classic. For those not giving a rats patoot about modern or at least semi modern frieght engines not to worry. CN / Via built some just as interesting passenger power at the time. These of coarse were the Bombardier LRC locomotives and their matching coaches ( the coaches still make up the bulk of the corridor fleet today, at least 8 of the locomotives are still on the property and geet occational use as well ) The LRC's were tested on Amtrak as well. Bombardier had hopes that they could sell this system to most of the commuter rail systems starting up in the 70's and 80's. Did not pan out.

Have a good afternoon guys.

Rob

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Just had to make an acknowledgement to our two stellar contributors this AM -

passengerfan Al Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 08:59:20

Nice supplemental info on the KCS and much appreciated! My humble sources don't provide very much additional info and I was hoping for more .... Thanx! [tup] Saw a complete consist of the Southern Belle at KCity's Union Station about 5 years ago. Really a well put together effort - I believe there were 14 cars in all headed up by A-B -A configuration. Beautfiful. My pix are 35mm and unfortunately, the colors and details would be lost trying to convert them over to Post herein. But I saw 'em and I'll not forget!

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 09:03:27

The St. Louis Council of the Boy Scouts of America boasts the largest number of scouts anywhere in the U.S.A. So in terms of numbers, there's no problem. I'm hardly an active follower these days - although there are three Eagle Scouts in my family (my late son, my youngest son and I). From the observations I've made in the area I reside in, there just doesn't seem to be the presence that I recall from decades past. I recall as an Assistant Scoutmaster we'd have boys actively involved through high school - now it's rather difficult to retain 'em past the 8th or 9th grades. [yeah] Changing socieity for sure .......

Also, the Cub Scout program, from what I've heard, has drastically changed. One of my daughters-in-law is now a scout leader. Wouldn't be a bit surprised to see us follow the sorry lead of Canada by going "uni-sex." Boy Scouts is what it was founded to be in England and should remain. But, alas - I'm a dinosauer in so many ways ........ [swg]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with some of what you've said regarding our thread. Yes - the Posts are longer and definitely more inclusive. But the numbers of us has dwindled and all one has to do is check the Summaries to see who is and who isn't Posting. I don't miss those who never could acknowledge the efforts of othes - they really were in the wrong place all along if they thought we are all about the "hit 'n run."

Ain't hard to figure out that several have dropped by the wayside. So be it. I've done all I'm going to do with Emails and the like to cajole, request and otherwise beg to get 'em back. Those front doors swing both ways! Oooops, [soapbox] time!

Now back to the positive of this - the group we do have is very involved and very much "into" what we're about. [tup] Problem is, we have no "bench strength," and we've experienced some long term absences by those we've come to depend upon. West Coast S Dave immediately comes to mind. Puzzling .....

Boris check out that cash Rob left at the bar - he's forerver leaving "Monopoly" money for us! <grin>

Catch y'all later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Looks like Rob isn't about to let me just tend bar - he wants to talk! [swg]

trolleyboy Posted: Today, 09:17:52

Nice segway into those realtively "modern" loco's ... hard to think of 'em as "Classic" but you are correct, they do have a special place in RR recognition and surely isn't any harm by including 'em!. [tup]

Your reference to Bombardier and VIA Rail didn't go unnoticed [swg] and I conur, those "Corridor" trains really will occupy a place in the Classic Trains inventory of some great railroading equipment. Nicely done, Sir!

Now unless someone else "pops" in with a Post I can't refuse to comment on - I'll be back in a few hours for the afternoon's NOSTALGIA piece. [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

[trolleyboy]

tom It's not monopoly money it's Canadain tire money. Which can be exchanged for goods and services at the Candain tire stores[tup] ( shamless plug really and definatly [#offtopic] Boris here's a shin plaster( 25 cent bill if anyone was wondering ) ring up another round[swg]

Yes scouting in Canada has become politically correct.[sigh] Interesting that the girls sccouts brownies and Guides hasn't followed suit though. Hmmm a job for the good inspector I think.

glad you liked the Via and Corridor reference. I have only once experienced a complete LRC train ride. an all to quick St Catharines to Toronto run when I was 13. We decided to go to the CNE by train. (This is something that can still be done but by Go transit now.) A full tilting (slightly LRC train and coaches was an interesting ride to bad they didn't stay on as complete units. I do still prefer the "ride" of the corridor budd coahes though [tup]

Now I'll have to go back and catch Al's post,missed it in the shuffle as they say.


Al Again amazining info as per usual [bow] I always loved the E units, Something we sadley lacked here in canada with the lone three E8's the CPR bought for their New England pool trains. I've always felt thought that the E8 was the least attractive of the line.( that will likely cause a stir ). To me they were too utilitarian too much like the freight and passenger F's kind of common. I do however absolutly love the Early E's 2's , 3's 5's& 6's. Those slanted noses and stanless stell on the earliest are just the cats patoot in my humble opinion.[tup] But what do I kniow I'm the streetcar guy.[:0][:D][|)]


Back later. Rob

[Anonymous]

Hi everybody, I think a Hot Toddy might take the fall chill off for now Tom. The C & O seems to have "rung a few bells" hereabouts. Fine Posts from CM3, Al, Pete and Rob. Let's hope the K.C.S. is enjoyed with equal enthusiasm.[tup] Terrific input on the Peter Witt cars and the man, thanks Rob. That car is my personal all time favorite as I recall them from the "gogle eyes" of my childhood. 'Course the P.C.C.'s soon took dominance over all of the heavier, older cars but there was nothing like the moan of the Witt's taction motors and steel (uninsulated) wheels crashing through a "Grand Union."[^]

Tom, when K.C., Mo dumped their street railway operations, a lot of X-K.C. cars were bought by Philadelphia, and others were shipped to Austria, Spain, Belgium and South American countries. Many U.S. cities did the same. It wouldn't surprise me if the St. Louis Museum P.C.C. could have done a "stint" in Kcity, Mo. before Philadelphia aquired same.

I wanted to do a 3 installment piece on the Pacific Electric this morning but due to an enormous amount of e-mail needing attention, I'll try for later in the day. Some progress is being made on the HO side this week. Which brings me to comment on the subject of minimum radii curves with traction. I have no problem with running 10" radius reverse loops. Frankly, I love to see the Witt and San Diego cars straining around these tight curves. Part of the "curiosity value" of street R.R.ing is (for me) the overhang (front and rear) of the single units. I can run 2 cars on the "dog bone" without fear of collisions due to their gear ratios. They "pace themselves" respectively.

Its nearly lunch time and I'm to meet some friends at a place of their choice, not mine.[V] So, I must bid a fond (short) adieu until the next Post. Boris, "hit it! This round is on me.[:D] Happy rails to all.

[BudKarr]

Hello Captain Tom and whoever else is looking in. Too early for a beer, so I will partake in the light breakfast, how about one of those Our Place bacon, egg and cheese on an English muffin? I will fetch a cup of that steaming hot coffee while its being prepared.

Been browsing the forums this day and have come away astounded at the junk being put out. Really annoying. Some people just encourage bad behavior and ignorance. No room in my cold heart for any of that. Seems we have something in common, my cyber friend.

Really have enjoyed the postings from everyone and I too am enlightened by the information being presented. I have some experience riding street cars, but mainly in Europe and hardly can be considered the aficionado, as Captain Tom puts it. There is little doubt that as a means of public transportation, there should be provisions for them in the urban settings of the mega metropolis' of today.

Sorry if I dinged you trolleyboy over on that other thread. I failed to recognize your name before I made my comment. However, I stand firm with the no encouragement approach.

Quite frankly Captain Tom, it appears that you are indeed down to a precious few. Have you considered that may be a good thing? The thread will continue, even if the posts are far and few between. I would think it far better to have meaningful contributions from those who are interested than what is going on elsewhere. Then again, "knowing" you, there is little doubt that this place would close up if that were to occur.

Perhaps this weekend I will have some free time to gather my thoughts regarding another posting for the group. I am scheduled for a trip on Monday and may or may not return before weeks end.

Any word on your rendezvous in Toronto? Today, the timing appears favorable for me, but as with most things in my life, that too can change.

BK

[trolleyboy]

Howdy Hi there Ted. I figured the witt piece would" bong your gong" nooo Boris not litteraly. Hmmm that's gonna leave a mark sorry Ted.[alien]'s can't live with them can't....

I'm looking forward to the PE bits.Not rail lines I know much or anything about but the info will be interesting and topical. [tup]

I like the whine of a Witt as well. In some of the TTC cars cases. The brill witt's they had an even more melodious whine being that they had "herringbone" gears. Many a TTC maintenace guy had said that the brillwitt's were mechanically the best designed but the bodies were the poorest. All 50 were scrapped in the early 50's. Nice segwe on Tom's url, that car very well could have come from KC or Toronto. TTC bought many a used PCC in the 60's 70's from slosing down street railways, KC, Birmingham and Cleveland amoung them.

Bye the Bye. If you would like me too I'll keep an eye out and an ear to the ground for a used copy of Larry Partriges the Witt's, Stictly cronickles the TTC cars but it's a great book. Larry had passed away several years ago,but we get the odd copy from estates at the museum or I'll find them in used book stores occationally. If you weant I'll keep my peepers peeled for you.


Rob

[trolleyboy]

BK not to worry. Normally i wouldn't encourage such threads but I felt as though I could help. No harm no foul,glad you popped by.

You may be more of an aficianodo than you realize, I think in my heart of hearts that as more and more we deal with the mega cities. The more we will see the need for the cleanness of subway and light street rail as a means of getting around in the city cores if nothing else.


You wil be quite welcome in Toronto next year should you be free to make the trip. Yhe more the merrier.


I hope that Tom does hold the line on this thread. I have no reason to think otherwise. Five or six good friends / members do make this the most compelling and informative thread on these forums. At least in the information shared.

Rob

[siberianmo]

G’day Guys!

Let’s get right to the acknowledgements, for we’ve had quite a flurry of activity ‘round here this morning …….

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 10:02:48

I won’t profess to be more “Canadian” that a native born, but, Sir, I am most familiar with “Canadian Tire money” and do know the difference between what you’ve been trying to pass off at the bar! Hmmmmmmf - <double> Hmmmmmmmf! Remember, my God father was a born ‘n bred Habitat from Montreal, long before Sir Rob was a gleam, as they say! [swg]

For nearly 16 years, I have been giving my mother in law gobs of those “Canadian Tire dollars” each time we visit Halifax (Bedford). For some reason, we always gravitate to that store – not as if it is something really special nor unusual – but we wind up walkin’ the aisles. Bedford is more the village than a city, and of course nowadays it has been gobbled up by the Halifax mega city idea. Anyway, it’s a short walk from Mom’s house right on Bedford basin up to the shopping area. So each mornin’, I generally meet with a guy or two who I’ve met along the way (on trains) for a cuppa at Tim Horton’s. Just gotta go there each day or the visit isn’t complete. I’ve never tried to pay them off in “Canadian Tire dollars though – perhaps you’ve started something ……. [swg]

On those occasions when I travel the “Corridor” I do so by purchasing the VIA1 fare, except for short journeys. For example, between Toronto and Montreal that 5 hour trip is much better spent in 1st class for sure. Anyway, on one of my trips I wound up in a rather vintage Budd coach marked with the VIA1 placard and was instantly disappointed. That soon changed, as I realized just how much room I had and how comfortable the car was. I always enjoy the LRV’s and like the design very much. But ever since that experience, I’m no longer quick on the “judgment” trigger! [swg]

You appear to be quite “active” today, I’ve seen your numbers take quite a leap. Whazup [?] Too much caffeine in the “Joe” perhaps [?] [swg]

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 10:06:18

Isn’t it a tough life being popular [?] [swg] There are times ‘round here when I wonder whether there are enough hours in the day to take care of all the minutia that has piled up! Sure says a lot when my “breakfast meetings” are the highlight of the day! <grin>

We’ll be here when that three-part piece of yours gets ready for readin’. [tup]

BudKarr BK Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 10:17:38

The return of the “adventurer.” One day you’ll have to tell us why you referred to yourself that way in your profile. But then again, maybe we don’t all have a “need to know” as we used to say once upon a time in another life, long, long ago ……

Good to have your presence at the bar and appreciate your patronage. No point in my commenting on your observations of the forums, for they surely echo my own. One thing though, neither of us can change what’s going on, but we sure in heck don’t have to participate in it!

So you “nailed” Sir Rob, eh [?] Well, knowing him, he’s just offering a helping hand. You know, one of those “nice guys” who are becoming less ‘n less recognizable in today’s society. I’m sure he’ll not take issue with your intent ….. or, then again – better keep a close eye on whoever is operating that Toronto trolley should you find yourself in its path! [swg]

Commentary on the state of the bar is appreciated and you made some valid points. Problem for me is I’m too close to it – I know what it can be – I enjoy what it is like when we are “cookin’” and it is very frustrating when things just kinda flare out. But, that’s MY problem …… [tup]

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 10:27:26 and 10:27:26

Tweeeeeeeeet! Tweeeeeeeeet! Rules violations, Rules violations! Rules #1 & #2 – failure to greet the barkeep and order a drink! Twice!! Okay, Boris Ring it, loud and long and twice! [swg]

If you’re gonna repetitive Post, you’re gonna have to repetitive greet ‘n drink! <grin>

Okay, this time – I’m takin’ a short break. <geesh>

So, whatillyahave

Tom [4:-)][oX)]