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  • Member since
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Posted by passengerfan on Monday, May 29, 2006 10:00 AM
Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. This being Memorial Day I am sure we all have our thoughts on this special day to so many.

I remember one particular Memorial Day when I was in the Navy we were assigned the honor of laying a wreath that year in Iron Bottom Sound at Guadalcanal. A fleet Chaplain was transferred to our ship a few days brfore we layed the wreath. The service he provided that day left not a dry eye on the ship. We had a few WW II veterans aboard the ship and a number of Korean War vets.
Little did I realize that another war was beginning at that time and we would be fully embroiled in it within months.
I always think about that wreath laying ceremony to this day and wonder if it is still performed today. We were detatched from our squadron for this honor and it is something I will never forget.

I will be spending the day at the park after watching our Memorial Day parade with my step grandson. He is five and I am making a real railfan out of him. Fortunately we can see the trains from the park.

TTFN Al
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Posted by trolleyboy on Monday, May 29, 2006 11:27 AM
Good morning everyone. Thought I would drop by to see everyone B$ I head on out to work for the bulk of the day.I do hope everyone spends a quiet and reflective memorial day,I know that we do for rememberance day on the 11th of november. Heather and I take a service in eother at the cemotaph or at the Canadian Warplane herritage musuem. They put on a wonderfull cerimoney topped off with the Lancaster, the Mitchell and the Canso ( PBY5 ) and Dakota doing a memorial flypast. Always packed with vets and their families.

Tom happy rails tomorrow, not to worry we will keep the homefores burning notwithstaanding yesterdays not so wonderfull turnout.The rest of the picture's I'll put descriptions up for will be out in a moment.

Mike Great photo url for that dakota [tup] #8 is run at the sedate musuem speed limit off 20mph ( it's only a mile and a quarter run down the mainline as 8 does not loop at either end of the line due to her imence weight and overhang ( she's nearlt 50t ) Likley 38 fully openned out now wouldn't do more than 40mph, this is because she was built for highspeed 1500v overheand hance the pantagraphs, we stepped her motors and compressors down to the 600v service that we run so she does not get the juice to gallop along at her full speed.

Al a reflective afternoon seems the best for today IMHO.


Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Monday, May 29, 2006 12:05 PM
Okay gents a last round of something speacial for the gang and a few more photo tags for this page 344's fine CWH shots from captain Tom.[tup]x5 for the photo's sir, they really area top notch bunch. I'll have mine back tomorrow so I'll share them next sunday, then replay them for you once you have returned from your northern sojourne [tup]

#22,23,25&26. A DC3 Dakota from Canada's 10 group air transport squadron. This plane was built in 1939 and still flies today. it has the most confirmed airtime on it's airframe of any Dakota left in flying shape today, well over 800,000 hours ( excess of 12 million miles flown ) This plane is a true WW2 vet, as it was based in the Pacific with 10 group on the troop resupply missions in Southeast asia, including some time in the D-day paratroop drops in 1944 as it's only wartime european theater deployment.

#24 A Grumman Tracker ASW aircraft that served aboard HMCS Bonaventure from 1964-71 then was landbased at CFB Summerside PEI 1979-1990 when it and it's sisters were retired.

#27 Canadair CT144 Tutur jet fighter trainer. This aircraft serveed as the primary jet fighter trainer for the RCAF from 1962-2003 when it was replaced by the British Aerospace hawk trainer. The only flyable tuturs today are those used by the RCAF flight air demonstration team known as the Snowbirds .

#28 an early search and recue helicopter a Siskorsky Hoverfly early 50
s vintage.

#29 a 1944 Chev truck as used by RCAF bomber squadrons in Great Britain as crew shuttles during WW2. this truck is driven in rememberance day parades etc each year.

#34-36 The piece de la resisiatnce B1 lancaster FM213, built in 1944 by Victory aircraft ( (later Avro Canada builders of the CF100 Canuk jet interceptor and the ill fated CF105 Arrow)This aircraft was completed too late for WW2 service but was kept on strength and usedas a maritime reconasence and ASW plateform on the east coast from 1947-66 when it and it's Lancaster sisters were replaced by P3 Orions. FM213 was retired and given to the Royal candian Legion branch in Godderich ontario and was pilon mounted,however unlike other pylon mounted planes which have their main spar cut to mount a simgle pylon this aircraft was mounted on three pylones at its "jack" points and no airframe damage occured which is why it was aquired and made flyable again ( 20 year restoration ) This is one of only 2 left flyable in the wrld, the other is the City of Lincoln which is owned and operated by the RAF in their battle of Brittain Memorial flight squadron. The plane is painted as 419 moose squadron bomber VRA the aircraft that P/O ( pilot officer ) Andrew Mynarski won his VC in in 1944 over Holland. I will do his story this evening and replay it again on rememberancce day in November.


Rob
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Posted by siberianmo on Monday, May 29, 2006 12:46 PM
G'day!

Many THANX Rob for the Pix descriptions - even if no one ever reads them, other than me, KNOW they are much appreciated as are your comments regarding my Pix! [tup] I look forward to the Rendezvous Pix from you and let's plan to "swap" the more personal Pix that do not get Posted on line.

Once again the day began on a "downer," when one of our very own failed to make mention of the Pix that were Posted yesterday.

Hey - I don't need to be the recipient of cheerleading efforts - but for heaven's sake - 70 Pix along with the Emporium "stuff" and the Sunday Index - zip, zero, zilch - sure makes a guy feel like: what's the use[?]

Yesterday was one of the most sour I've experienced in terms of absolutely nothing being returned - not one "browser" said a thing (and there were 2 of our "Permanent Stools" peeking in . . . ) and of course, no one else participating.

Saturday was another gross disappointment - so it's time for me to take my leave. This nearly 14 months of effort needs a rest. Doubt if very many will notice.

Gotta get back to ensuring that the "last minute details," don't get left for the last minute!

Later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by passengerfan on Monday, May 29, 2006 7:45 PM
Good Luck Tomorrow Tom and Bon Voyage to you and the better half.

Like I said if I was a young man I would certainly be a resident of our largest State. Having driven trruck to and from Alaska for four years steady I miss it.

Just watch out for the mosquitoes and black flies. The Air Force at Fairbanks swear the mosquitos are so large they ask for clearance to land. But the Air Force always did exagerate a little. Personally always had more trouble with the black flies. They take a hunk of flesh with every bite.

TTFN Al
  • Member since
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Posted by siberianmo on Monday, May 29, 2006 8:50 PM
Evenin' Gents!

Just a few reminders:

Cindy will bartend for the day shift and Leon will take the evenings while I'm gone. Boris will tend to the kitchen and get the place started in the early AM . [:O]

I expect to get a Summary and an ENCORE RR from Yesteryear out in the AM . . . . after that, I'm gone. [yeah]

Thanx for the well wishes - Rob 'n Al [tup]

Leon the Night Man now has the bar!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    May 2014
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Posted by trolleyboy on Monday, May 29, 2006 10:24 PM
Hello Leon a crown I think please. Another hot muggy just plain awfull day today 32C with a humidex reading of 41C [xx(] That's tripple digets folks and it's only the end of may [tdn]. Tom don't sweat the small stuff enjoy your trip and return home sane and energized. I aggree with Al though watch out for da bugs of the season. Black flies and Sqeeters are at an all time high and size in ontario so I can imagine what you may or may not be getting into. As i said those 70 pictures are simply grand [tup] no other way to describe them, I'm a bitted miffed that no one else noticed, hopefully it was just the heat [tdn].

Rob
  • Member since
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  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
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Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 5:41 AM

ENCORE! Courtesy: www.viarail.ca


We open at 6 AM. (All time zones - Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


TUESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


Tuesday again! Time to draw a cuppa freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee, some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and a selection or two from our Menu Board for a <light> or <traditional> breakfast!


THIS IS MY LAST DAILY SUMMARY FOR AWHILE . . . .
Yeah, I know that I said this yesterday – that was just a “test!” [swg]


Daily Wisdom


The West don’t care what a man calls himself. It’s what he calls others that lets him stay healthy or not.



Info for the Day:

June 3rd is jlampke John’s B’day!
He has requested only [bday] greetings – NO BASH!
Let’s oblige our sailorman friend! [swg] [tup]


* Weekly Calendar:

Wednesday: Toy & Model Trains Day!
Thursday: Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday: Pizza Nite! & Steak Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday



MVP Award Winners



April 2006 . . . LoveDome Lars



[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]


Comedy Corner

Yarns from the Barn
(from barndad Doug’s Posts)

[:I] One afternoon this guy drives down a highway to visit a nearby lake and relax. On his way to the lake one guy dressed from head to toe in red standing on the side of the highway gestures him to stop. Our guy rolls down the window. "How can I help you?"
"I am the red *** of the asphalt, you got something to eat?"
With a smile on his face he hands one of his sandwiches to the red dressed guy and drives away. Not even five minutes later he comes across another guy. This time the guy is dressed fully in yellow, standing on the side and waving him to stop. A bit irritated our guy stops, cranks down the window. "What can I do for you?"
"I am the yellow *** of the asphalt, you got something to drink?"
Hardly managing to smile this time he hands to the guy a can of soda and then stomps on the pedal and takes off again. In order to make it to the lakeside before sunset he decides to go faster and not to stop no matter what. To his frustration he sees another guy on the side of the road, dressed all in blue, making a hand signal to stop him. Not quite willing our guy decides to stop a last time. He rolls his window down and yells to the guy, "I know, you're the blue *** of the asphalt. Now just what the hell do you want?"
"Driver's license and registration please." [:I]


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]



The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre


NOW SHOWING:

Double Features and Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, May 28th thru June 2nd: Patton (1970) starring: George C. Scott & Karl Malden –and- The Eagle Has Landed (1977) starring Michael Caine, Robert Duvall & Donald Sutherland. SHORT: Uncivil Warriors (1935).

COMING ATTRACTIONS:

. . . Sunday, June 3rd thru June 9th: The Great Escape (1963) starring: Steve McQueen, James Garner & Richard Attenborough –and- The Longest Day (1962) starring: 42 International Stars. SHORT: Pardon My Scotch (1935).


. . . Sunday, June 10th thru June 16th: Major League II (1994) starring: Tom Berenger & Charlie Sheen –and- Mr. Baseball (1992) starring: Tom Selleck, K. Taukura & A. Takanashi. SHORT: Hoi Poloi (1935).



SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 29 May 2006, 01:31:18 (344) Early, early AM Inclusive Post

(2) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 29 May 2006, 02:16:30 (344) Descriptions for my Pix!

(3) jlampke John Posted: 29 May 2006, 03:40:52 (344) Early, early AM visit & comments!

(4) wanswheel Mike Posted: 29 May 2006, 05:08:25 (344) Inclusive Post!

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 29 May 2006, 07:04:42 (344) Memorial Day Info & 9-Post Summary

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 29 May 2006, 08:20:35 (344) Acknowledgments & Comments

(7) passengerfan Al Posted: 29 May 2006, 10:00:40 (344) Left Coast report

(8) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 29 May 2006, 11:27:04 (344) Inclusive Post

(9) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 29 May 2006, 12:05:49 (344) more descriptions for my Pix!

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 29 May 2006, 12:46:37 (344) Acknowledgments & Comments

(11) passengerfan Al Posted: 29 May 2006, 19:45:59 (344) Comments

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 29 May 2006, 20:50:12 (344) Comments

(13) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 29 May 2006, 22:24:30 (344) Nite Cap!



That’s it![tup][;)]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 5:47 AM
ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!
first Posted on page 234


Now arriving on track #1 …..
Railroads from Yesteryear! Number Two


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.


Chesapeake and Ohio Railway

Locale: District of Columbia, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, New York, Ohio, Virginia, West Virginia, and Wisconsin

Reporting marks: CO

Dates of operation: 1869 – 1972

Track gauge: 4 ft 8½ in (1435 mm) (standard gauge)

Headquarters: Cleveland, Ohio

The Chesapeake and Ohio Railway (C&O) was a Class I railroad formed in 1869 in Virginia from many smaller railroads begun in the 19th century. Tapping the coal reserves of West Virginia, it formed the basis for the City of Newport News and the coal piers on Hampton Roads, and forged a rail link to the midwest, eventually reaching Columbus, Cincinnati, and Toledo in Ohio and Chicago, Illinois.

Headquartered in Cleveland, Ohio, USA, in 1972, it became part of the Chessie System, along with the Baltimore and Ohio and Western Maryland Railway. In 1980, the Chessie system combined with Seaboard Coast Line Industries to form CSX Corporation, which by 1987 had merged all its railroad subsidiaries into CSX Transportation, one of seven Class I railroads operating in North America at the beginning of the 21st century.

The city of Huntington, West Virginia is named for one of its early leaders, Collis P. Huntington.


Early history, Crozet, and crossing the Blue Ridge Mountains

The Chesapeake & Ohio Railway traces its origin to the Louisa Railroad of Louisa County, Virginia, begun in 1836, and the James River & Kanawha Canal Company, also begun in Virginia in 1785. The C&O of the 1950s and 1960s at its peak before the first modern merger, was the product of about 150 smaller lines that had been incorporated into the system over time.

By 1850 the Louisa Railroad had been built east to Richmond and west to Charlottesville, and in keeping with its new and larger vision, was renamed the Virginia Central Railroad. The Commonwealth of Virginia, always keen to help with "internal improvements" not only owned a portion of Virginia Central stock, but incorporated and financed the Blue Ridge Railroad to accompli***he hard and expensive task of crossing the first mountain barrier to the west. Under the leadership of the great early civil engineer Claudius Crozet, the Blue Ridge RR built over the mountains, using four tunnels, including the 4,263-foot Blue Ridge Tunnel at the top of the pass, then one of the longest tunnels in the world.

While the Blue Ridge was being breached, Virginia Central was building westward from the west foot of the mountains, across the Great Valley of Virginia (The Shenandoah Valley), and the Shenandoah range (Great North Mountain), reaching a point known as Jackson's River Station, at the foot of the Alleghany Mountains (note that in Virginia Alleghany is spelled with an "a"), in 1856. This is the site that would be called Clifton Forge later.

To finish its line across the mountainous territory of the Alleghany Plateau (known in old Virginia as the "Transmountaine"), the Commonwealth again chartered a state-subsidized railroad called the Covington and Ohio Railroad. This company completed important grading work on the Alleghany grade and did considerable work on numerous tunnels over the mountains and in the west. It also did a good deal of roadway work around Charleston on the Kanawha River. Then the American Civil War intervened, and work was stopped on the westward expansion.

C & O predecessors during the Civil War

During the Civil War the Virginia Central Railroad was one of the Confederacy's most important lines, carrying food from the Shenandoah region to Richmond, and ferrying troops and supplies back and forth as the campaigns surrounded its tracks frequently. It had an important connection with the Orange and Alexandria Railroad at Gordonsville, Virginia. On more than one occasion, the Virginia Central was used in actual tactical operations, transporting troops directly to the battlefield. But, it was a prime target for Federal armies, and by the end of the war had only about five miles of track still in operation, and $40 in gold in its treasury.

Ellis P. Huntington links the tidewater of Virginia with the Ohio Valley

Following the war, Virginia Central officials, led by company president Williams Carter Wickham, realized that they would have to get capital to rebuild from outside the economically devastated South, and attempted to attract British interests, without success. Finally, they succeeded in getting Collis P. Huntington of New York, interested in the line. He is, of course, the same Huntington that was one of the "Big Four" involved in building the Central Pacific portion of the Transcontinental Railroad, which was at this time just reaching completion. Huntington had a vision of a true transcontinental that would go from sea to sea under one operating management, and decided that the Virginia Central might be the eastern link to this system.

Huntington supplied the Virginians with the money needed to complete the line to the Ohio River, through what was now the new state of West Virginia. The old Covington & Ohio's properties were conveyed to them [Note: the name was Railroad at this time ... it will be changed later to Railway] in keeping with its new mission of linking the Tidewater coast of Virginia with the "Western Waters." this was the old dream of the "Great Connection" which had been current in Virginia since Colonial times.

On July 1, 1867 the C&O was completed nine miles from Jackson's River Station to the town of Covington, seat of Alleghany County, Virginia. By 1869, it had crossed Alleghany Mountain, using much of the tunneling and roadway work done by the Covington & Ohio before the war, and was running to the great mineral springs resort at White Sulphur Springs, now in Greenbrier County, West Virginia. Here, stagecoach connections were made for Charleston and the navigation on the Kanawha River (and thus water transportation on the whole Ohio/Mississippi system).

During 1869-1873 the hard work of building through West Virginia was done with large crews working from the new city of Huntington on the Ohio River and White Sulphur (much as the UP and CP had done in the transcontinental work), and the line was completed at Hawk's Nest, West Virginia on January 28, 1873. The West Virginia stretch of the C & O was the site of the legendary competition between John Henry and a steam-powered machine; the competition is said to have taken place in a tunnel south of Talcott, West Virginia near the Greenbrier River.

Typical of the men who built the C & O during this period was William N. Page, a civil engineer who had attended special courses in engineering at the University of Virginia before he went to work on the railroad. Page directed the location and construction of the New River Canyon Bridge in 1871 and 1872, and of the Mill Creek Canyon bridge in 1874. In 1875 and 1876, he led the surveying party charged with mapping out the route of the double-track railway to extend between Hampton Roads and the Ohio River via the New River and Kanawha Valleys of West Virginia. Like many men who came to West Virginia with the railroad, Page was struck with both the beauty and potential of the natural resources and is considered one of the more energetic and successful men who helped develop West Virginia's rich bituminous coal fields in the late 19th and early 20th century. Page settled in the tiny mountain hamlet of Ansted, West Virginia, a town located in Fayette County near Hawk's Nest, on high bluffs overlooking the New River far below, where the C&O occupied both sides of the narrow valley.

Collis Huntington intended to connect the C&O with his western and mid-western holdings, but had much other railroad construction to finance and he stopped the line at the Ohio and over the next few years did little to improve its rough construction or develop traffic. The only connection to the West was by packet boats operating on the Ohio River. Because the great mineral resources of the region hadn't been fully realized yet, the C&O suffered through the bad times brought on by the financial panic (Depression) of 1873, and went into receivership in 1878. When reorganized it was renamed The Chesapeake & Ohio Railway Company.

West Virginia coal development and Newport News piers

Shortly after the end of the Civil War, Collis P. Huntington and his associates began buying up land in Warwick County, Virginia. During the ten years from 1878 to 1888, C&O's coal resources began to be developed and shipped eastward. In 1881 the Peninsula Subdivision was completed from Richmond to the new city of Newport News, located on Hampton Roads, the East's largest ice-free port. Transportation of coal to Newport News where it was loaded on coast-wise shipping and transported to the Northeast became a staple of the C&O's business at this time.

Morgan and Vanderbilt take control

In 1888 Huntington lost control of the C&O in a reorganization without foreclosure that saw his majority interest lost to the interests of J.P. Morgan and William K. Vanderbilt. In those days before US anti-trust laws were created, both many smaller railroads which appeared to be in competition with each other were essentially under common control. Even the leaders of Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR) and New York Central Railroad (NYC) had secretly entered into a "community of interests" pact.

Morgan and Vanderbilt had Melville E. Ingalls installed as President. Ingalls was, at the time, also President of the Vanderbilt's Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago and St. Louis Railroad (The "Big Four System"), and held both presidencies concurrently for the next decade. Ingalls installed George W. Stevens as general manager and effective head of the C&O.

The C&O gains a water level route along the James River across Virginia

In 1889 the Richmond and Allegheny Railroad company, which had been built along the tow-path of the defunct James River and Kanawha Canal, was merged into the C&O, giving it a down grade "water level" line from Clifton Forge to Richmond, avoiding the heavy grades of North Mountain and the Blue Ridge on the original Virginia Central route. This "James River Line" would be the principal artery of eastbound coal transportation down to the present day.

Ingalls and Stevens completely rebuilt the C&O to "modern" standards with ballasted roadbed, enlarged and lined tunnels, steel bridges, and heavier steel rails, as well as new, larger, cars and locomotives.

In 1888, the C&O built the Cincinnati Division, from Huntington, West Virginia down the south bank of the Ohio River in Kentucky and across the river at Cincinnati, connecting with the "Big Four" and other Midwestern Railroads.

From 1900 to 1920 most of the C&O's lines tapping the rich bituminous coal fields of southern West Virginia and eastern Kentucky were built, and the C&O as it was known throughout the rest of the 20th Century was essentially in place.

In 1910 C&O merged the Chicago, Cincinnati & Louisville Railroad into its system. This line had been built diagonally across the state of Indiana from Cincinnati to Hammond in the preceding decade. This gave the C&O a direct line from Cincinnati to the great railroad hub of Chicago.

Also in 1910, C&O interests bought control of the Kanawha and Michigan (K&M) and Hocking Valley (HV) lines in Ohio, with a view to connecting with the Great Lakes through Columbus. Eventually anti-trust laws forced C&O to abandon its K&M interests, but it was allowed to retain the Hocking Valley, which operated about 350 miles in Ohio, including a direct line from Columbus to the port of Toledo, and numerous branches southeast of Columbus in the Hocking Coal Fields. But there was no direct connection with the C&O's mainline, now hauling previously undreamed-of quantities of coal. To get its coal up to Toledo and into Great Lakes shipping, C&O contracted with its rival Norfolk & Western to carry trains from Kenova,. W. Va. to Columbus. N&W, however, limited this business and the arrangement was never satisfactory.

C&O gained access to the Hocking Valley by building a new line directly from a point a few miles from its huge and growing terminal at Russell, Ky., to Columbus between 1917 and 1926. It crossed the Ohio River at Limeville, Ky. (Sciotoville, Ohio), on the great Limeville or Sciotoville bridge which remains today the mightiest bridge ever built from point of view of its load capacity. It was truly a monument to engineering, but seldom commented on outside of engineering circles because of its relatively remote location.

With the connection at Columbus complete, C&O soon was sending more of its high quality metallurgical and steam coal west than east, and in 1930 it merged the Hocking Valley into its system.

Van Sweringen era - Pere Marquette Railroad

The next great change for C&O came in 1923 when the great Cleveland financiers, the Van Sweringen brothers (O. P. and M. J. Van Sweringen), bought a controlling interest in the line as part of their expansion of the Nickel Plate Road (NKP) system. Eventually they controlled the NKP, C&O, Pere Marquette Railroad (in Michigan and Ontario), and Erie railroads. They managed to control this huge (for the time) system by a maze of holding companies and interlocking directorships. This house of cards tumbled when the Great Depression began and the Van Sweringen companies collapsed. But the C&O was a strong line and despite the fact that in the early 1930s over 50% of American railroads went into receivership, it not only avoided bankruptcy, but took the occasion of cheap labor and materials to again completely rebuild itself.

During the early 1930s when it seemed the whole country was retrenching, C&O was boring new tunnels, adding double track, rebuilding bridges, upgrading the weight of its rail, and rebuilding its roadbed, all with money from its principal commodity of haulage: Coal. Even in the hard years of the Great Depression, coal was something that had to be used everywhere, and C&O was sitting astride the best bituminous seams in the country.

Because of this great upgrading and building program, C&O was in prime condition to carry the monumental loads needed during World War II. During the War it transported men and material in unimagined quantities as the U. S. used the Hampton Roads Port of Embarkation as a principal departure point for the European Theater. The invasion of North Africa was loaded here. Of course coal was needed in ever increasing quantities by war industries, and C&O was ready with a powerful, well organized, well maintained railway powered by the largest and most modern locomotives.

Post World War II - Robert R. Young

By the end of the World War II, C&O was poised to help America during its great growth during the decades following, and at mid-century was truly a line of national importance. It became more so, at least in the public eye through Robert Ralph Young, its mercurial Chairman, and his Alleghany Corporation.

Young got control of the C&O through the remnants of the Van Sweringen companies, in 1942, and for the next decade he became "the gadfly of the rails," as he challenged old methods of financing and operating railroads, and inaugurated many forward looking advances in technology that have ramifications to the present. He changed the C&O's herald (logo) to "C&O for Progress" to embody his ideas that C&O would lead the industry to a new day. He installed a well-staffed research and development department that came up with ideas for passenger service that are thought to be futuristic even now, and for freight service that would challenge the growth of trucking. Young eventually gave up his C&O position to become Chairman of the New York Central before his suicide in 1958.

During the Young era and following, C&O was headed by Walter J. Tuohy, under whose control the "For Progress" theme continued, though in a more muted way after the departure of Young. During this time, C&O installed the first large computer system in railroading, developed larger and better freight cars of all types, switched (reluctantly) from steam to diesel motive power, and diversified its traffic, which had already occurred in 1947 when it merged into the system the old Pere Marquette Railroad (PM) of Michigan and Ontario, Canada, which had been controlled by the C&O since Van Sweringen days. The PM's huge automotive industry traffic, taking raw materials in and finished vehicle out, gave C&O some protection from the swings in the coal trade, putting merchandise traffic at 50% of the company's haulage.

Chessie System, CSX

C&O continued to be one of the more profitable and financially sound railways in the United States, and in 1963, under the guidance of Cyrus S. Eaton, helped start the modern merger era by "affiliating" with the ancient modern of railroads, the hoary Baltimore & Ohio. Avoiding a mistake that would become endemic to later mergers among other lines, a gradual amalgamation of the two lines' services, personnel, motive power and rolling stock, and facilities built a new and stronger system, which was ready for a new name in 1972. Under the leadership of the visionary Hays T. Watkins Jr., the C&O, B&O and Western Maryland Railway became Chessie System, taking on the name officially that had been used colloquially for so long for the C&O, after the mascot kitten used in ads since 1934.

Under Watkins' careful and visionary leadership, Chessie System then merged with Seaboard System Railroad (itself a combination of great railroads of the Southeast including Seaboard Air Line, Atlantic Coast Line, Louisville & Nashville Railroad, Clinchfield Railroad and others), to form a new mega-railroad: CSX Transportation (CSX).

Today, CSX, after acquiring 42% of Conrail in 1999, is one of four major railroad systems left in the country, and still an innovative leader, true to its roots in Robert Young at "For Progress," the Van Sweringens and their quest for efficiency and standardization, to George Stevens and his dedication to operation efficiency and safety awareness, back to Collis P. Huntington and his dreams of a transportation empire, and even back to those old, long forgotten Virginians who started it all to carry their farm produce to market in 1830.


References

None provided.


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.

***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

That's it for me - I outta here . . . Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 6:37 AM
Good Morning Leon and the rest of the gang. With the boss away we should be able to get away with just about anything. Time for a Coffee and a Crumpet from the Mentor Village Bakery.

In keeping with today's theme the C&O i submit my first post for the day.

CHESAPEAKE
&
OHIO

PERE
MARQUETTE
Streamlined Coaches
by Al

The C&O for its size would order one of the largest postwar fleets of lightweight streamlined cars ever placed with Pullman Standard. Unfortunately it was more cars than the C&O could possibly use for their passenger services. Many of the cars from this order were canceled before metal was cut for their construction. Others were sold directly to other railroads such as the D&RGW, IC, and B&O. A further group of cars would be sold by the C&O after Pullman Standard delivery some having never operated in C&O service. The C&O would still end up with one of the most modern passenger fleets of any eastern railroad. For coach passengers the C&O would introduce some of the most innovative new coaches of any railroad.
The first of the C&O postwar streamlined trains to enter service was the two consists of the PERE MARQUETTES inaugurated August 10, 1946. These two Pullman Standard built seven car streamliners would enter service between Detroit and Grand Rapids, Michigan scheduled for three round trip daily. The Pere Marquette Railway was owned by the C&O but operated at that time under its original name. In 1947 the Pere Marquette would become the Northern lines of the C&O. The trip between Detroit and Grand Rapids was 152 miles in each direction with each train operating 456 miles daily. Each of the seven car streamlined trains provided revenue seating for 220 passengers. The trains were painted Enchantment Blue Roofs, Car Ends, Window Bands and Trucks with a Venetian Yellow Letter Board and fluted stainless steel panels on the car sides below the windows. The E7A units were painted to match minus the fluted stainless steel panels. The two head end cars and diesel unit were the only cars turned at terminals. The remaining five cars like the prewar Reading CRUSADER consisted of a pair of Coach Observations with Blunt ends a pair of Coaches and a 44 seat Dining car in the center. The trains were train lined with a Baggage 15’ Railway Post Office Car, Baggage Car, Coach Observation, Coach, Dining Car, Coach, and Coach Observation. The seats in the Coaches and Coach Observations were simply reversed at terminals. The consists were replaced by newer cars in 1950 and many of these original PERE MARQUETTE cars were sold to other roads.

101 EMD E7A 2,000 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

51 Baggage Car

61 Baggage 15’ Railway Post Office Car

21 56 Revenue seat Coach Observation

30 54 Revenue seat Coach with 10 seat Smoking Lounge

11 44 seat Dining Car

31 54 Revenue seat Coach with 10 seat Smoking Lounge

23 56 Revenue seat Coach Observation

SECOND CONSIST

102 EMD E7A 2,000 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

50 Baggage 15’ Railway Post Office Car

60 Baggage Car

20 56 Revenue seat Coach Observation

30 54 Revenue seat Coach with 10 seat Smoking Lounge

10 44 seat Dining Car

32 54 Revenue seat Coach with 10 seat Smoking Lounge

22 56 Revenue seat Coach Observation

BAGGAGE 15’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE CARS Pullman Standard July, 1946 (Built for and assigned to PERE MARQUETTES)
50 – 51

BAGGAGE CARS Pullman Standard July 1946 (Built for and assigned to PERE MARQUETTES)
60 – 61

56 REVENUE SEAT COACH OBSERVATIONS WITH 10 SEAT LOUNGE Pullman Standard July 1946 (Built for and assigned to PERE MARQUETTES)
20 – 23

54 REVENUE SEAT COACHES WITH 10 SEAT SMOKING LOUNGE Pullman Standard July 1946 (Built for and assigned to PERE MARQUETTES)
30 – 33

44 SEAT DINING CARS Pullman Standard July 1946 (Built for and assigned to PERE MARQUETTES)
10 – 11

All eight of the above cars with revenue seating 20-23, 30-33 were sold to the C&EI in 1950 replaced by newer C&O cars delivered that same year. The C&O added another pair of PERE MARQUETTES between Chicago and Grand Rapids in 1950 with connecting service from Holland and Muskegon provided in each direction. The Coaches came from the large Pullman Standard order of 1950 numbered 1610 - 1668. A single Baggage 32 Revenue seat Coach 1403 was also assigned to PERE MARQUETTE service in 1950. A similar car 1402 was assigned to the other PERE MARQUETTE train set in 1950; this car was a Baggage 28 revenue seat Coach Combination built by Budd for the stillborn CHESSIE of 1948. Two 54 revenue seat Coaches with 9 seat lounges 134 and 135 were delivered by Pullman Standard in 1950 for PERE MARQUETTE service. The four 30 revenue seat Parlor cars built for PERE MARQUETTE service in 1950 were 1800 TORCH LAKE, 1801 BURT LAKE, 1802 CHARLEVOIS LAKE and 1803 ELK LAKE. The final car built specifically for PERE MARQUETTE service in 1950 was Lunch Counter Tavern Lounge Car 1920 CHESSIE CLUB.

BAGGAGE 28 REVENUE SEAT COACH COMBINATION CAR Budd Company July 1948 (Built for CHESSIE assigned to PERE MARQUETTE service)
1402

BAGGAGE 32 REVENUE SEAT COACH COMBINATION CAR Pullman Standard 1950 (Built for and assigned to PERE MARQUETTE service)
1403

54 REVENUE SEAT COACHES WITH 9 SEAT SMOKING LOUNGE Pullman Standard 1950 (Built for and assigned to PERE MARQUETTE service)
134 – 135

8 SEAT LUNCH COUNTER BUFFET 30 SEAT LOUNGE CAR Pullman Standard 1950 (Built for and assigned to PERE MARQUETTE service)
1903 CHESSIE CLUB

30 REVENUE SEAT PARLOR CARS Pullman Standard 1950 (Built for and assigned to PERE MARQUETTE service)
1800 TORCH LAKE
1801 BURT LAKE
1802 CHARLEVOIS LAKE
1803 ELK LAKE

The Chesapeake & Ohio received three consists of lightweight streamlined cars in August 1948 from the Budd Company to inaugurate a new daytime streamlined train service between Washington, DC and Cincinnati, Ohio powered by coal fired streamlined Turbine locomotives. A connecting through car service would be operated between Newport News and Charlottesville powered by streamlined stainless steel shrouded Hudson’s. The new deluxe all coach streamliner named the CHESSIE was scheduled to enter service in September, 1948 but after one delay or postponement after another the CHESSIE was quietly dropped having never entered service. The CHESSIE would have been one of the most innovative if not the most innovative coach streamliners ever built with features never found on any other coach streamliner in America. The three train sets featured Coaches with revenue seating for 36 with an 8 seat smoking lounge numbered 1500-1511 and 1600-1609 as the standards for the trains with all other CHESSIE cars specialty cars except for the 1400 – 1402 Baggage 28 revenue seat Coach combination cars. The 1700-1702 were Family Coaches with revenue seats for 32, a diaper changing room, Children’s Playroom, Children’s Theater, and Buffet. The 1850-1852 series cars featured 5 Roomettes, 1 Single Bedroom, 3 drawing Rooms and 24 non revenue seats in the dome with all space sold for daytime use only. The 1875 – 1877 series cars were 20 revenue seat Coaches with a snack bar beneath the 20 non revenue seat Dome Observations. Car numbers 1900 – 1902 were 8 seat Lunch Counter Buffet 38 seat lounge Cars. Car numbers 1920 – 1922 featured 5 seat Lunch Counter 32 seat Dining and 10 seat Lounge Observation with Blunt Observation end and diaphragm installed. Cars 1940 – 1942 featured a Crew Dayroom 12 seat Lunch Counter and Kitchen, these cars were paired with 60 seat Dining Room Theater cars 1970 – 1972. If the CHESSIES had entered service several of the 36 revenue seat coaches and the 1920 – 1922 series Lunch Counter Dining Room Lounge Observations would have operated as through Newport News – Cincinnati cars. The 46 cars constructed by Budd for the CHESSIE sat idle while the C&O made up their mind what to do with them. Eventually the 20-revenue seat Coach 24 non-revenue seat dome Observations 1875 - 1877 would be assigned temporarily to PERE MARQUETTE service before being sold to the D&RGW in September 1948. The D&RGW after repainting these cars and installing adapters for mid train use assigned the cars to the ROYAL GORGE. The 22 coaches in the 1500-1511 series and 1600-1609 series were sold six to the ACL in October 1950, eight to the SAL in August 1950, and the remaining eight were sold overseas and shipped to Argentina. Two of the 1900 – 1902 series Tavern Lounge cars 1900 and 1901 were also sold and shipped to Argentina, while 1902 was retained by the C&O and rebuilt into Business car 19 in 1950. The three twin unit dining sets were 1940- 1942 and 1970- 1972 series were all sold to the ACL in December 1950. The three sleeper Domes 1850 – 1852 were sold to the B&O in December, 1950 and assigned to the CAPITOL LIMITED and SHENANDOAH between Washington and Chicago. The three Family Coaches 1700 – 1702 were sold to the C&EI in March 1951 the last of the former CHESSIE cars sold.

BAGGAGE 28 REVENUE SEAT COACH COMBINATIONS Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1400– 1402

36 REVENUE SEAT COACHES WITH 8 SEAT SMOKING LOUNGES Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

Vestibule Aft
1500 – 1511

Vestibule Forward
1600 – 1609

32 REVENUE SEAT FAMILY COACHES WITH CHILDREN’S PLAYROOM THEATER DIAPER CHANGING ROOM Budd Company August, 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1700 – 1702

24 SEAT DOME 3 DRAWING ROOM 5 ROOMETTE 1 SINGLE BEDROOM PRIVATE ROOM CARS Budd Company August, 1948 Plan: 9524 Lot: 9669 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1850 – 1852

24 SEAT DOME 20 REVENUE SEAT COACH 16 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Tapered) Budd Company August, 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1875 – 1877

8 SEAT LUNCH COUNTER BUFFET 38 SEAT LOUNGE CARS Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1900 – 1902

KITCHEN PANTRY 5 SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 32 SEAT DINING 10 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Blunt) Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1920 – 1922

CREW DAYROOM 8 SEAT LUNCH COUNTER KITCHEN CARS ½ of TWIN UNIT Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1940 – 1942

60 SEAT DINING ROOM THEATER CARS ½ of TWIN UNIT Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1970 – 1972

The streamlined coaches to modernize the remaining C&O passenger services arrived in 1950 from Pullman Standard several of these cars were listed previously for the PERE MARQUETTE services (1403, 1800 – 1803, and 1903). The largest part of the order was for eighty 52 revenue seat coaches of whom fifty-nine were actually delivered to the C&O numbered 1610 – 1668. These cars were built with two compartments seating 26 with a serpentine open divider between the compartments. The reason given for this design was it broke up the tube like shape of the coach seating area. These cars actually seemed more roomy than most with this center divider although in actual fact it was only an illusion. These cars were assigned to the SPORTSMAN, PERE MARQUETTES, GEORGE WASHINGTON, and FFV. Many secondary trains were also equipped with these coaches.

52 REVENUE SEAT COACHES Pullman Standard 1950 (Built for and assigned to General Service)
1610 – 1668

Two of the above cars 1610 and 1611 were remodeled with a Kitchen occupying the space of the former men’s room at one end and the 26 coach seats at that same end were replaced by a 22 seat Dining room. At the other end of the car in the space where the large women’s restroom was formerly located smaller men and Ladies Rest rooms were installed and the 26 revenue seat coach compartment remained.

TTFN Al.
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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 10:13 AM
Good morning Cindy, we understand you're all Tom's, he's often told us. Suspension of disbelief doesn't come easy. How about a stack of pancakes, with steam? Lotsa steam for today's theme.

Rob, your ability to identify the planes in the photos is impressive. You do know your motors.

Al, this first link is to a photograph of one of the locomotives you referred to I think.
http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr5_022_c&o_steam_turbine_electric_streamliner_1947.jpg

C & O Map
http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr5_015_c&o_route_map.jpg

The George Washington
http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr5_025_c&o_george_washington_cincinnati_oh_1965.jpg

Sciotoville Bridge designed by Gustav Lindenthal (1850-1935), who also designed the Hell Gate Bridge and Simon & Garfunkel's groovy 59th Street Bridge
http://www.davidplowden.com/photographs/Bridges/image/29DPBridges.jpg

Bridge construction phase
http://www.east.k12.oh.us/WebPages/04_05/Pictures_TD/Building%20C%20&%20O%20Bridge%20at%20Sciotoville%20circa%201915-1916.jpg

Same bridge in color
http://www.kentuckyroads.com/images/ohio_river/360-sciotoville-bridge-at-twilight-sciotodale-oh-05-03-02-l.jpg

From the Denver library's Otto Perry collection. He was not a professional photographer, rather a well travelled railfan.

http://photoswest.org/photos/00002876/00002944.jpg Train #6, Fast Flying Virginian. Photographed: at Montgomery, W. Va. station, June 27, 1950.

http://photoswest.org/photos/00002876/00002941.jpg Train #3, Fast Flying Virginian. Photographed: approaching [as it arrives at] Charleston, W. Va., June 26, 1951.

http://photoswest.org/photos/00002876/00002940.jpg Train #104, passenger. Photographed: East of Deepwater [i.e. coming into Kanawha Falls], W. Va., June 27, 1950.

http://photoswest.org/photos/00002876/00002974.jpg Gas-electric motor car 9054. Photographed: at Clifton Forge, Va., August 4, 1936. Date 1936.

http://photoswest.org/photos/00002876/00002950.jpg Train #16, passenger; 3 cars, 30 MPH. Photographed: at Montgomery [i.e. Mount Carbon], W. Va., June 26, 1951.

http://photoswest.org/photos/00002876/00002951.jpg Train #2, The George Washington. Photographed: at the Cincinnati, Ohio station, July 21, 1940.

http://photoswest.org/photos/00002876/00002949.jpg Train #1, The George Washington. Photographed: leaving Washington D.C., August 3, 1939.

http://photoswest.org/photos/00002876/00002954.jpg Train #4, The Sportsman. Photographed: in Washington D.C., July 22, 1940.

http://photoswest.org/photos/00002876/00002963.jpg 2-6-6-6 Freight, eastbound; 48 cars. Photographed: east of Montgomery [i.e. Mount Carbon], W. Va., June 26, 1951.

http://photoswest.org/photos/00002876/00002959.jpg Freight, eastbound; 93 cars, 30 MPH. Photographed: near Montgomery [i.e. Mount Carbon], W. Va., June 26, 1951.

http://photoswest.org/photos/00002876/00002926.jpg 2-6-6-6 at Hinton, W. Va., July 10, 1953.

http://photoswest.org/photos/00002876/00002917.jpg Handley, W. Va., June 26, 1951
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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 12:03 PM
Good Morning guys time for a follow up to the C&O and Wanswheel you were absolutely right about that being one of the Turbines that were built for the CHESSIE.

CHESAPEAKE
&
OHIO
Streamlined Observations
by Al

The Chesapeake & Ohio owned a total of fourteen lightweight streamlined Observations. Six were built by Budd and delivered in August 1948 for assignment to the three consists of the CHESSIE. The remaining eight were delivered by Pullman Standard in August 1950 for assignment to the SPORTSMAN, FFV, and GEORGE WASHINGTON.
The six built for the stillborn CHESSIE were three blunt ended cars to be operated mid train between Cincinnati and Charlottesville, at which point they became the Observation on the rear for the Newport News section of the CHESSIE. The Swallow tailed Observations would have operated on the rear of the CHESSIE for the entire distance between Washington, D.C. and Cincinnati. The three Blunt ended observations 1920 - 1922 were equipped with a Kitchen Pantry 5 seat Lunch Counter 32 seat Dining Room and a 10 seat Lounge in the Observation end.
The other three observations with the swallow tail end were also dome observations. These cars 1875-1877 had 1 20 Revenue seat Coach section 24 non-revenue seats in the dome and a 16 seat lounge in the Observation end. The bathrooms and Buffet were located beneath the dome.
The C&O retained the 1920 - 1922 for assignment to the PERE MARQUETTE services operating between Chicago and Detroit as well as Detroit and Grand Rapids, and all three went to Amtrak in 1971. The other three 1875-1877 after operating in PERE MARQUETTE service for a year were sold to the D&RGW for further service where they were numbered 1248 - 1250 and operated in ROYAL GORGE service. They were fitted with a diaphragm adapter on their Observation end and were often used mid train at least between Colorado Springs and Denver with the DENVER ZEPHYR Colorado Springs cars on the rear after 1956.

20 REVENUE SEAT COACH 24 SEAT DOME 16 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Swallow-Tailed) Budd Company August 1948 (Built for CHESSIES assigned to PERE MARQUETTES)

1875-1877

KITCHEN-PANTRY 5 SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 32 SEAT DINING 10 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Blunt) Budd Company August 1948 (Built for CHESSIE assigned to PERE MARQUETTES)

1920-1922

The final eight lightweight streamlined observations came from Pullman Standard and these blunt ended observations were probably the finest looking blunt ended Observations ever built by Pullman Standard. These 5 Double Bedroom Buffet 24 seat Lounge Observations were equipped with diaphragms. As previously mentioned the cars were intended for the FFV, SPORTSMAN and GEORGE WASHINGTON. Only the GEORGE WASHINGTON of the three required little switching in route so only the GEORGE WASHINGTON was assigned these Observations. The C&O sold four of the Sleeper Lounge Observations to the B&O two in February 1951; these were C&O 2501 SHENANDOAH CLUB and C&O 2505 OHIO RIVER CLUB. Both were renumbered and repainted for B&O service becoming 7502 DANA and 7503 METCALF and were assigned to the AMBASSADOR. The AMBASSADOR was the overnight train of the B&O between Detroit and Baltimore.
In March two more of these Observations were transferred to B&O ownership these were C&O 2502 TIDEWATER CLUB and C&O 2507 WOLVERINE CLUB, they became B&O 7500 NAPPANEE and 7501 WAWASEE and were assigned to the CAPITOL LIMITED.
Of the remaining four C&O Sleeper Lounge Observations the C&O shops rebuilt 2504 NEW RIVER CLUB into a business car and numbered the car 29 it was not assigned a name. The 29 was assigned to C&O Chairman Robert R. Young.
He other three C&O Sleeper Lounge Observations 2500 BLUE RIDGE CLUB, 2503 ALLEGHENY CLUB and 2506 BLUEGRASS CLUB were assigned to the GEORGE WASHINGTON between Washington and Cincinnati.
In 1961 all three cars were shopped and reconstructed to 6 Crew Dormitory Kitchen 32 seat Dining cars and assigned new numbered 1923, 1924, and 1925 respectively.

5 DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 24 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Blunt) Pullman Standard August 1950 Plan: 4165 Lot: 6893 (Built for and assigned to C&O GEORGE WASHINGTON)

2500 BLUE RIDGE CLUB

2501 SHENANDOAH CLUB

2502 TIDEWATER CLUB

2503 ALLEGHENY CLUB

2504 NEW RIVER CLUB

2505 OHIO RIVER CLUB

2506 BLUEGRASS CLUB

2507 WOLVERINE CLUB

TTFN Al
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    January 2001
  • From: WV
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Posted by coalminer3 on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 12:47 PM
Good Afternoon Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

Many itmes in the box today, and thanks to all for posting.

As C&O is the theme for today, here's some memories that I culled out of the notebooks. This piece has to do with both the L&N and the C&O as they were "of a piece" in Louisville. This is kind of a bittersweet offering as the trains, locomotives, and in some cases, the railroad they ran on are all gone.

Mint Juleps and Black Diamonds: Memories of the “George Washington”

Just before Amtrak, the Louisville and Nashville’s “Pan American” operated between Cincinnati and New Orleans via Louisville. It carried through cars for Florida from the “South Wind” between Louisville and Montgomery where these cars were handed over to the Seaboard Coast Line for the remainder of their journey. The “South Wind” did not operate every day, so the “Pan” was shorter than usual on certain runs.

The “Pan American” carried a mixture of stainless steel and blue-painted cars. The stainless cars generally had block lettering while the blue cars carried the name Louisville and Nashville in gold script. Some of the stainless cars had black script lettering.

The usual “Pan” consist included a baggage car, two or more coaches, a counter-lounge, and a 10/6 sleeper which operated between Louisville and New Orleans. “South Wind” cars usually ran on the head end. These cars included coaches and sleepers and a dome car during the winter season.

Power was either a pair of E7s or a pair of E8s in gray and yellow livery. The E8s were mostly ex-Frisco units which had been named for racehorses. Some of these engines survived until Amtrak days and finished out their careers in Pittsburgh.

The ride from Nashville to Louisville always included a big breakfast in the L&N’s dining car. The counter-lounge cars were ex Maine-Central cars. A heavyweight diner ran on the days the lightweight counter cars did not. The heavyweight car gave a beautiful ride. The northbound run was through pleasant rolling countryside. The train moved along at a steady pace except for its passage over Muldraughs Hill. The hill was as big an operational headache to the “Old Reliable: as Alleghany was to the C&O.

Louisville Union Station’s layout was that of a stub on a wye which meant that all trains had to go through some complicated maneuvers to get into the station. The Es would be cut off and a black and gold painted SW switcher would attack the train. The Wind cars and the Louisville sleeper would be cut out and shoved onto adjacent tracks. The baggage car would be recoupled to the train. Meanwhile, car inspectors would be checking running gear while another crew watered the cars. A new set of Es backed down and coupled onto the train. Baggage and express would be loaded and unloaded. While all of this was happening, the “South Wind’s” cars were being readied for their trip up the P Company to Chicago. All of this business was conducted under an immense train shed – as only the L&N had on their stations. The “South Wind” departed, immediately followed by the “Pan American.”

It was then that passengers noticed the short train sitting in the far corner of the train shed. A sign at the gate, black letters on a yellow background, proclaimed that this train was the C&O flagship, “George Washington.” The “George” left Louisville behind a single E8. The cars were stainless steel with blue and yellow striping, except for the head end car which was blue and gray. The consist included a combine coach, one or two lightweight coaches, a “Club” series diner lounge and a “City” series 10/6 sleeper, often the “City of Beckley.” The train was always clean; inside and out. Those of us who periodically enjoyed some of the excesses of the northeast were surprised at how clean the C&O managed to keep their equipment; even in winter.

The train would be called far enough in advance to allow the passengers to get settled in. Departure from Louisville was always interesting because of the “street” running the train dad while getting out of town. The cars really rocked going through the wye track and switches around the station.

Between Louisville and Winchester, Kentucky, was the roughest part of the trip. The station at Winchester was a brick structure with a distinct C&O architectural flavor. This was the boundary between rough and smooth track.

The “George” was now on the C&O and it immediately picked up speed on its eastward trip across Kentucky. This part of the ride was through gentle rolling country which was full of farms. The grass was like a green carpet in the spring, and even in the winter, the harshness of snow and bare trees was somewhat softened by the contours of the landscape.

The diner beckoned between Lexington and Ashland. The menu included three entrees: roast beef, fish, or pork chops. Dinner included potatoes, vegetable, and salad. Passengers could select dessert from blueberry pie, baked apple, ice cream with chocolate sauce, or cheese and crackers. The complete roast beef dinner sold for $4.25. There was also a buffet special, usually veal parmagiana, which listed for $2.75.

The Louisville section arrived at Ashland at 8:30 p.m. The Detroit section pulled in at around 8:50 p.m. and the trains were combined for the 25-minute trip to Huntington. The Cincinnati section arrived at Ashland at 9:24 p.m., and departed at 9:30 p.m. for a 9:50 p.m. arrival at Huntington. All trains were combined at Huntington for the trek across the mountains to Charlottesville. This involved a lot of switching, and it was possible to lose track of where your car was. Train personnel were careful to warn passengers to “stick close” to their cars, especially if one or the other trains was running late.

The passage through West Virginia, especially along New River in the moonlight was beautiful, but the smooth ride often put me to sleep.

The “George” was broken up at Charlottesville. The early riser would be treated to watching a GP7 or GP9 making up the Newport News and Washington sections of the train. Yard engineers handled the cars gently to keep from awakening sleeping passengers, but no time was wasted in switching.

E8s would couple onto the Washington section, air tests would be made, and the “George” set off on the last leg of its journey to Washington. The run finished on joint C&O/Southern trackage. The train paused at Alexandria, passed by Pot Yard, crossed the Potomac and slid under the Capitol into the lower level of Washington Union station. The Es would be cut off to thread their way through the maze of terminal trackage to Ivy City. Passengers streamed toward the station at a blue and white Washington Terminal RS1 coupled onto the George and pulled it off to the coach yard to be cleaned, turned, and readied for its next trip.

Each railroad’s passenger trains had their own atmosphere which gave the trains their character. The “George Washington” was no exception.

The “George” used to carry through cars to New York. These cars ran on the Pennsylvania Railroad north of Washington. It was a splendid sight to see stainless, blue and yellow C&O cars mixed in with tuscan red PRR cars, rolling along behind a GG1. The C&O cars stood out among other cars from different lines at Sunnyside Yard. An alert passenger could easily spot them in the yard from the window of a “Penn job” coming off the Hell Gate Bridge and into New York.

I was awakened in my roomette one snowy night just before Christmas, 1969. The “George” had been late out of Huntington because of heavy snows in Ohio which had delayed the Cincinnati sections. I had gone to bed but was now wide awake from the rocking motion of a train in a hurry. Snow billowed up along the sides of the cars from the speed of our passing. The “George” was making up time and a pair of C&O E8s were letting the scattered houses along the way know about it. We rounded a curve and far behind I could see the markers on the last car (a business car) shining through the snow. We had about 22 cars on the train; 17 of which went to Washington. We were late into Washington, but the sight of the train in the snow was worth the delay.

On May 1, 1971 I rode the last “Pan American” from Nashville to Louisville. The Pan carried its usual consist plus cars from the “Gulf Wind,” a tri-weekly train which ran between New Orleans and Jacksonville. A track gang was working at the north end of the station trackage in Nashville. They removed their caps as the last “Pan” passed by. I watched the switching drill at Louisville. The “Pan” departed, and then the headlight of C&O 1468 stabbed through the darkness under the train shed. The last Louisville section of the “George” passed in review; a typical consist with the “City of Beckley” bringing up the rear. The train swept by, its engine and cars rocking through the switches. It went around the wye and was gone; just a faint haze of smoke in the air. It seemed like another day’s departure from Louisville, but it was the end of an era.

work safe

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 1:39 PM
Just stopping by for some more peace and quiet.

Here's a few C&O postcard-size pictures

Pere Marquette
http://www.chessieshop.com/gallery/photos/cspr1698.jpg
http://www.chessieshop.com/gallery/photos/cspr2088.jpg
http://www.chessieshop.com/gallery/photos/cspr1581.jpg
http://www.chessieshop.com/gallery/photos/cspr2087.jpg

Sportsman & tunnel
http://www.chessieshop.com/gallery/photos/cohs42.jpg

FFV http://www.chessieshop.com/gallery/photos/cohs6714.jpg

CM3, great post!
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Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 2:36 PM
Good afternoon gentlemen. Good to see several of you in already today [tup]. Our fearless leader is away now on his long awaited and deserved Alaskan getaway, so happy rails 'n' wings Tom [tup]And what a trooper you got the summetry in and a wonderfully complete C&O encore up and out there for all to enjoy [tup]

Al You sir did not disapoint a fine rundown of the power and cars of the main C&O passenger varnish [tup]Hopefully Sir Ted will make it in and enjoy the remenicing as well.

Mike Glad you apprecaited the tiny tidbits of info i was able to proveide for Tom's marvelous phot spreads from Sunday. Canadain Military history has been a keen interest and important thing for both myself and my wife.We both have several WW1 and 2 vets in our respective families, and to us it's extremely important to remember and foster rememberance in others. Fine on side and topic photo urls as usual today sir, we can always count on you to dig up some important tidbits of info for us on this thread.

CM3 I can smell the sights and sounds of the Washington coach yards, and the consists of both those trains. thank-you sir a true fine shinning example of what this thread is about. a tip of my engineers cap to you [tup]

Rob
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    May 2014
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Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 3:10 PM
Gentlemen,the next post I'm putting out, is a piece I had ment to put out for all to read yesterday, but a late thunderstorm of some strength forced me to shut down earlier than I wished yesterday. This is new info and as such I intend to encore it again later in the year when rememberance day does roll around. This is Andrew Mynarski's story, hiopefully explaining why he was awarded the Victoria Cross, and why he was chosen by the Canadain Warplane Herritage Museum to be honoured by their flying Lancaster Bomber which is also a moving tribute to the thousands who flew combat missions for bomber comand in RAF and RCAF squadrons during WW2, and to the 20,000 that did not return. So Andy's story a bit late for Memorial day, but worth the time none the less. I must also say that both Ted and Tom were moved by both the Lanc itself and by Andy's story, I get shivers typing it out as I do reading it and seeing the Lanc up close and touch it as well.

A bit of background, Pilot officer Andrew Mynarski was a trained airgunner hailing from a small town outside of Winnipeg Man. he enlisted early in the war 1940 just after the Battle of Britain and trained for his trade at the Commenwealth air training facilities in Canada.he was then posted in 1943 to the 419 Moose squadron a Canadian bombing group originally supp,luied with Wellington Bombers but by 1944 they were flying B1 Lancs, like the bomber at the CWH.

Andy was the mid upper gunner on bomber KM469 or VRA as the squadron call letters were. This is the paint job and numbers that FM213 carries as a living memorial at the museum.His best friend was pilot officer Pat Brophy who was the crews tailgunner ( a P/O is equiviant rank to an army sgt ). They often spne ttheir down time together at the sgt's mess on the airbase and always jokingly saluted each other and called each other "sir" even though they were of equal rank. The entrie crew of VRA were a typical 'family" in it for king and Country

June 13th 1944 ,419 squadron was on a bombing mission along the boarder of Northern France and Belgium, the target was some railyards which the german army was transporting armour and supplies from. The mission finished the squadron was headed back to base ( 10th mission for VRA's crew ). On route home they were conned by the search lights but pilot Art Debyrne and his co pilot were able to get out of the cone but not before a JU88 night fighter spotted them. In a typical anto bomber attack the JU88 hit the belly of VRA with its upward firing 20mm cannons causing fatal damage to the airframe of the bomber. A fire broke out midline in the fusalage just forward of the midupper turret. Lt debryne orderd everyone to bale out as the hydro,.ics were shot through and the plane was going down.

With the crew baling out Andy left his mid upper mount and headed forward to the escape hatch, he noticed that his friend Pat was stuck. The fire and shock damage from the cannon strikes ha warped the frame of the turret and he could not rotate it to allow him to escape. Seeing his friends predicatment Andy grabbed a fire axe and crawled aft through the burning hydrolic fluid to aid his friend. Pat tried to shout him off and pleaded him to jump but Andy spent several minutes hammering on the stuck turret hatch all while the plane fell from the sky and his uniform pants burnt.Unable to release the turret Andy finally followed pats advice and dropped the axe and turned to jump out the hatch,saluting his trapped friend an saying to him " I'm sorry Sir " Andy jumped his flight suit still ablaze.

The bomber spiralled in with Pat still trapped in his turret, and when it hit the ground the force of the impact broke the rear ball turret and it's occupant free,rolling under a tree some 1000 yards from the wreck of the plane where it burnt out. Pat brophy shockingly survived the crash and walked away with bruises on his briuses as hesatted but beyond that no worse for thh wear, He and 4 of the other crew members became POW till the end of the war. Andy did not survive the burns he sustained as was the only member of the crew to perish, he's burried in Belgium today.

Pat Brophy told the bomber command Andy's story after they were set free and Andrew Mynarski was given the Victoria Cross Posthumously in 1946. The crew stayed good friends and along with Andrew Mynarski's sister have attended the naming of schools and libraires and even a Lake in Manitoba that have occured over the years in his name. In 1987 on the eve of CWH's eneaugural flight for the Lancaster ( after close to 15 years of restoration ) the entire crew and Andy's sister were on hand as guests of honour,FM213 carries the sqaudron marks of the original VRA along with the decal Tom photographed on the nose that Comemorates air gunner Mynarski's selfless act. In fact CWH has the fire axe that Andy tried to save Pat with, it was donated to the musuem by a Belgian family in the 1990's their father had found the axe in the wreckage and had used it on his farm for years !


VRA has had the sad but important task last performed in 2003.It has overflown each funeral ceremony for the original VRA crew, the last in St Catharines Ontario for tailgunner Pat Brophy.

A humble thank-you to all the air land and sea vets of every world war and conflict.

Rob
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  • From: Central Valley California
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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 3:59 PM
Good Afternoon gang. The boss is away so I suggest we have Boris set up free rounds on the house at least until the propietor gets back.

CHESAPEAKE
&
OHIO
(C&O)
Streamlined Dining and Lounge Cars
by Al

The C&O northern lines better known at the time as the Pere Marquette introduced a pair of seven-car coach streamliners August 10, 1946 between Detroit and Grand Rapids, Michigan. The two train sets made three round trips between them. The first two cars following the E7A diesel unit the baggage 30’railway post office car and baggage car were simply moved to the other end of the five cars at terminals only the diesel was turned. The five passenger carrying cars were trainlined in the following manner.

56-seat coach observation blunt end
54-seat coach with smoking lounge
44-seat dining car
54-seat coach with smoking lounge
56-seat coach observation blunt end

The new trains were delivered painted in the University of Michigan colors of Venetian yellow and Enchantment blue. These basic colors would be accepted by C&O as the color for all their streamliners with the yellow becoming a darker shade called Federal yellow on subsequent cars. Only those cars built for the CHESSIE would not receive the new C&O paint scheme.
The new Michigan trains were named the PERE MARQUETTES when they entered service and soon earned a reputation for reliability. The cars we are concerned with in this book are car numbers 10 and 11. These two cars featured a center kitchen with a passageway down one side. The dining areas were on either side of the kitchen pantry area and seated 22 at table seating for two and four. There were three tables for two and four tables for four. The cars served a dual purpose acting as lounge space during non-meal hours. The PERE MARQUETTES were one of the few trains in the U.S. to have waitresses instead of waiters and a no-tipping policy. Number 10 was retired in 1968 and sold privately. Car number 11 was converted in 1959 to a cafeteria car without change of number and retired in 1969. In 1970 the car was sold to a private owner.

44-SEAT DINING CARS Pullman Standard July 1946 (Built for and assigned to PERE MARQUETTES)

10, 11

The next trains to be discussed were the CHESSIES the trains that never were. The C&O received three Budd built consists in August 1948 that would have been among the finest day trains in the land if not the finest. The CHESSIES were built to operate between Washington, D.C. and Cincinnati with a connecting train between Newport News and Charlottesville. The three consists were to be pulled by the largest coal fired turbine locomotives ever built for passenger service. The C&O realized before the train entered service that they would never attract enough ridership to pay their way.
Each CHESSIE consist would have had five feature cars. These cars were 1875 –1877, 1900 –1902, 1920 – 1922, 1940 – 1942 and 1970 – 1972.
We will look at the cars in numerical order this is definitely not the way they would have been trainlined.
The 1875 – 1877 were built to be the last cars in the CHESSIES They featured a 20-seat coach section forward of the dome on the main level The Dome a lower profile dome built for eastern clearances seated the standard 24 found in all Budd short domes. To the rear of the dome in the rounded observation end on the cars main level was a lounge seating 16 with unusual seating arrangement having all facing aft at angles in pairs a single and one group of three. Beneath the dome was a pair of restrooms and a newsstand that would have sold newspapers, cigarettes, candies, magazines and souvenirs. Ahead of the coach seating was a silent screen room that showed headlines for the coach passengers of these cars. These cars would have operated Newport News to Cincinnati. After operating in PERE MARQUETTE service for a short period of time the three cars were sold to the D&RGW September 20, 1949. Before repainting and delivery to their new owner the cars were fitted with an adaptor at their rounded end complete with diaphragm for mid-train operation. See D&RGW for disposition and further history of these cars.

24-SEAT DOME 20-SEAT COACH 16-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS with Newsstand beneath dome Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1875 – 1877

Cars 1900 – 1902 were 6-seat lunch counter 8-seat dinette 25-seat tavern lounge 10-seat lounge cars. Car number 1900 was rebuilt to C&O business car 19 in 1953. One year later in 1954 the car was sold to the NYC as their business car 28. The NYC in turn sold the car privately in 1959 and named ADIOS II. Cars 1901 and 1902 were sold to the General Roca Railway of Argentina in 1951.

6-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 8-SEAT DINETTE 25-SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE 10-SEAT LOUNGE CARS Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1900 – 1902

Car numbers 1920 – 1922 were 5-seat lunch counter 16-seat dining 18-seat lounge 6-seat lounge observations. These cars were blunt end observations and would have operated between Washington and Cincinnati. All three cars were remodeled in 1952 each differently. Car 1920 after rebuilding featured a 4-seat lunch counter 38-seat dining 6-seat lounge observation. Car 1920 was transferred to Amtrak ownership in 1971. Car 1921 was remodeled to 5-seat lunch counter 36-seat dining and 4-seat lounge observation. Car 1921 was transferred to Amtrak ownership in 1971. Car number 1922 was remodeled to a 5-seat lunch counter 32-seat dining 10-seat lounge observation. In 1971 car 1922 was transferred to Amtrak ownership.

5-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 16-SEAT DINING 18-SEAT LOUNGE 6-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1920 – 1922

Cars 1940 – 1942 were part of two unit-dining sets with each coupled to car numbers 1970 – 1972 respectively. Cars 1940 – 1942 featured a 6-crew dayroom 9-seat dinette 4-seat lunch counter and a large kitchen pantry. Since these cars were built during the Jim Crow era of racial segregation they served black passengers only. The trailing 1970-1972-class dining room – theater cars were for white passengers only. Cars 1970 – 1972 were 52-seat dining room-theater cars. Seating was arranged at tables for two and four and they provided no kitchen facilities of any kind being totally dependant on the kitchens in 1940 – 1942 for food service. All three sets of cars were sold to the ACL in November 1950 for further service see ACL chapter for further history of these cars.

6-CREW LOUNGE 9-SEAT DINETTE 4-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER KITCHEN UNITS Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1940 – 1942

52-SEAT DINING – THEATER UNITS Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1970 – 1972

In 1950 the C&O received a large number of cars from Pullman Standard that were to say the least state of the art. The cars they received were part of a larger order parts of which were sold to other railroads with delivery straight from Pullman Standard. Still other parts of this huge order were canceled altogether. The C&O realized with their passenger services not all of the cars would be necessary to operate the trains they had.
The C&O purchased eight twin-unit dining car sets that were actually completed and delivered but none ever entered C&O service instead four were sold to the NYC, two were sold to the ACL and the remaining two were sold to the IC. These twin-unit dining sets as built consisted of a 16-crew dormitory – kitchen unit and a 52-seat dining room 12-seat cocktail lounge theater unit.

16-CREW DORMITORY KITCHEN CARS – 52-SEAT DINING 12-SEAT COCKTAIL LOUNGE THEATER CARS Pullman Standard 1950 (Built for C&O service but sold to other railroads)

1950 GADSBY’S KITCHEN
1973 GADSBY’S TAVERN
(Sold to Illinois Central November 1950)

1951 RALEIGH KITCHEN
1974 RALEIGH TAVERN
(Sold to Illinois Central November 1950)

1952 MICHIE’S KITCHEN
1975 MICHIE’S TAVERN
(Sold to New York Central October 1950)

1953 HANOVER KITCHEN
1976 HANOVER TAVERN
(Sold to New York Central October 1950)

1954 SWAN KITCHEN
1977 SWAN TAVERN
(Sold to Atlantic Coast Line December 1950)

1955 POSTLETHWAIT’S KITCHEN
1978 POSTLETHWAIT’S TAVERN
(Sold to Atlantic Coast Line December 1950)

1956 CALDWELL’S KITCHEN
1979 CALDWELL’S TAVERN
(Sold to New York Central October 1950)

1957 BOTSFORD KITCHEN
1980 BOTSFORD TAVERN
(Sold to New York Central October 1950)

No single unit lightweight streamlined dining cars were delivered for C&O service from this 1950 Pullman Standard order. Two were built but they were sold directly to the D&RGW. See the D&RGW for further details of these cars.
Pullman Standard built four 8-seat lunch counter buffet 38-seat lounge cars as part of the order for C&O but three were delivered directly to the D&RGW, only one was destined for C&O service 1903 CHESSIE CLUB assigned to C&O Northern lines for PERE MARQUETTE service. This car was transferred to Amtrak service in 1971.

8-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER BUFFET 38-SEAT LOUNGE CAR Pullman Standard 1950 (Built for and assigned to PERE MARQUETTE)

1903 CHESSIE CLUB

As part of the Pullman Standard order were eight 5-double bedroom buffet 26-seat lounge observations. Only four would enter C&O service and the other four were sold to the B&O who assigned their four to the AMBASSADOR and CAPITOL LIMITED. The C&O assigned three of the cars to the GEORGE WASHINGTON and the remaining car 2504 NEW RIVER CLUB was rebuilt to C&O Business car 29. The C&O rebuilt all three remaining cars 2500 BLUE RIDGE CLUB, 2503 TIDEWATER CLUB and 2506 BLUEGRASS CLUB in 1962 to 6-crew dormitory Kitchen-pantry 38-seat dining observations. Three of the bedrooms were designated crew dormitory space and the remaining two along with the buffet were rebuilt to Kitchen pantry and the lounge seating was removed and replaced by seven tables for four. All three were retired and sold to Amtrak in 1971. Business car CHESSIE 29 sold privately in 1971. These cars were renumbered and retained their names as before see below.

5 DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 26-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Pullman Standard 1950 (Built for and assigned to C&O passenger trains)

2500 BLUE RIDGE CLUB remodeled 1962 to C&O 1923 BLUE RIDGE CLUB

2501 SHENANDOAH CLUB sold to B&O February 1951 renumbered and renamed B&O 7502 DANA assigned to AMBASSADOR

2502 TIDEWATER CLUB sold to B&O March 1951 renumbered and renamed B&O 7500 NAPPANEE assigned to CAPITOL LIMITED

2503 ALLEGHENNY CLUB remodeled 1962 to C&O 1925 ALLEGHENNY CLUB

2504 NEW RIVER CLUB rebuilt 1951 to C&O Business car CHESSIE 29

2505 OHIO RIVER CLUB sold to B&O February 1951 renumbered and renamed B&O 7503 METCALF

2506 BLUE GRASS CLUB remodeled 1962 to C&O 1924 BLUE GRASS CLUB

2507 WOLVERINE CLUB sold to B&O March 1951 renumbered and renamed B&O 7501 WAWASEE assigned to CAPITOL LIMITED

The C&O converted two of their 1950 built coaches 1610 and 1611 to Coach diners in 1956. Where the one large bathroom in these cars was located at the end opposite the boarding vestibule, it was rebuilt to a pair of bathrooms the 26-seat coach seating at this end remained and to the rear of the center offset a 22-seat dining room was installed with 5-tables for 4 and one corner table for 2. Where the large bathroom at the boarding vestibule end was located this was rebuilt to a kitchen. Both 1610 and 1611 were retired in 1971 and sold to Amtrak.

TTFN Al
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Los Angeles
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Posted by West Coast S on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 5:13 PM
Afternoon All, Can't trust Boris, i'll provide the rounds !

Good to see so many appreciative of those that heeded their countries call to duty, I tip my hat and raise my glass to all of you.

Well, had a quiet Memorial Day, qued some steaks and put a twelve pack on ice, did some Honey Do projects, you know the usual domestic bliss!!

CM3

Excellent C&O coverage, extremely well conveyed, spent some time in my younger years in the Hollers of West Virginia when we had a pre-merger C&O-B&O-LN. I thought these railroads to look as tired as the surrounding hills, what a mistake I made in dismissing them!! No way back machine to do it all again...

John.. Congrats, I was once was a resident of Ford Island, our Navy supplied housing looked out onto Battleship Row and the memorial, thanks for the DB greeting.

Rob, you are a man of many talents, avaiation is a fasicinating subject in its own right, heck we just love machinery here at "Our Place"!

Tom, tell the misses to give you some time off!! Too quiet without you around.

Al, good to see your par excellence Streamliner write ups...


Well, off to do my duty, shall return later

Dave
SP the way it was in S scale
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    May 2014
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Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 10:17 PM
Good evening gents, Leon please set up a round of cr's for the assembled few. Been quite a day, good info on the C&O and some excellant remenicances to boot. All round really good day I should think.

Al Nope no free rounds sir, we have to turn a profit even when the boss is away. Someone's gotta pay for the trip [swg][:-^]. Wonderfull final add in from you sir. i;'ve always liked the Pere Marquette, seeing as how it cut a swatrh accross Southwestern Ontario at one point, good info as always's sir [tup]

Dave Yup a general love of all things mechanical fer sure fer sure,knida why this thread is so gosh darn entertaining. I know how you feel about sluffing off those roads way back when.I did the same with the TH&B around my home turf. I always assumed that they would be there and never commited them to film, seeing the High Hood geeps and the GM switchers in their statley Maroon and Creame, seems likie yestreday.Since 1983 though they have been replaced by parent company CP's action Red. the trains still run on the same tracks but it's just not the same. At least the odd TH&B covered hopper or coal hopper and the odd gondola or flat car still show up in a train but they are getting fewer and fewer.


Rob
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    May 2014
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Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 10:27 PM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! [center]

A blast from a few pages back now, this first showing up on page 289. This railway dovetails nicley with a couple things we all enjoy, some adult beverage and a steam powered railroad,other than great health and a big lottery win who could ask for anything more really[;)][:D].This road also ran through the territory in Ontario that was transversed, by the Pere Marquette, and the C&O ( CSX ) today.

Rob

QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy

All right something new for you all.I've been sitting on this one for a while, but I figured that given the nature of this place that you would all get a kick or two out of it.

CLASSIC STEAM #19 THE BOOZE LINE HIRAM WALKERS RY



Hiram Walker's Lake Erie & Detroit River Railway

In 1856 American distiller Hiram Walker arrived on tthe Candian side of the Detroit River and began making booze, an operation which would become Canada's most prolific distillery. Around the distillery Walker laid out the planned community of Walkerville. By the 1880's the townsite became one of Ontario's best planned towns with tree lined boulavards,beautiful commersial buildings,hotels,a bank, and soilid well built homes for the plants workers. Walker's own company office was such a beautifull structure that today it's a designated historic herritage building !

And he built a beautiful railway station as well. In 1885 Walker brouhgt into operation the Lake Erie and Detroit River Railway. It was intended to bring in the raw materials from the farmlands south of Windsor for the distillery. As well as to export local cattle and lumber across the Detroit River to the American markets. At first the line crossed only Essex County, reaching Leamington in 1889. But there was a great demand by the municipalities further to the east for a railway so by 1895 the route extended all the way to St Thomas. At St Thomas it met the Canada Southern at the CSR station built 20 years before.

From St Thomas the LEDR had hoped to purchase the Electric Radial RY the London and Port Stanley ( classic Juice #1 ), in order to have access to the coal shipments arriving at Port Stanley from accross Lake Erie. Unfortunatly the city of London considered the proposal for too long that Walker's LEDR instead bought the Erie and Huron RY which had it's Lake erie terminus at the Port of Erieau. This gave the LEDR connections to Chatham through Sarnia.


At Erieau the LEDR built a large coaling facility then entered the tourist business by adding two excursion steam boats, the Shenango, and the Urania. These ships cruised between Conneaut and Erieau bringing tourists to stay at the Company owned Bungalow and Lakeview Hotels. In 1912 the Bungalow the areas best hotel burnt down and was never rebuilt. In 1972 the line to Erieau was the first portion of the LEDR to be abandoned.

Southwestern Ontario's main railway rivalries interestingly did not involve any candian owned companies but American ones. In 1904 to compeet more aggressivly with the NYC owned Canada Southern, the Pere Marquette RY took over the LEDR and operated it until 1951 when it became part of the C&O. Now the CSX.

For most of it's route, the LEDR gained it's business from the feed mills an dgrain elevators which were paired with the stations in most of the little towns along the line. Some fish was shipped seasonally from the ports of Kingsville and Wheatley, while,the major industry continued to be the distillery at Walkersville.

Gradually trucking intrests slowley took over the industries along the line. Between 1992 and 1996 most of the line between St Thomas and Walkerville was abandonned and the tracks lifted. The only track still in use today is found in Windsor and operates between the CN and CP and in Blenheim where grain is still moved by teh CSX alonf the former Erie and Huron ROW to Chatham.


Enjoy Rob
  • Member since
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Posted by passengerfan on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 7:35 AM
Good Morning Gang and hope this finds the Captain and Mrs. enjoying his vacation. I am really envious as it has been a few years since I was last in Alaska. I have to say I miss it. Enjoy Tom you earned it.

I know Wednesday is Model Pike day but since I don't have a model trains will put something else out. Since Rob is watching the bar no free drinks. Maybe we should get together and at least paint Boris' shed in back of the Bar.

STREAMLINED DINING
& LOUNGE CARS
OF THE UNITED STATES
& CANADA
By Al

INTRODUCTION

The streamlined Dining and Lounge cars came about in the natural evolution of the streamlined trains. After all if one is to have a streamlined train then a streamlined Dining and Lounge car is necessary to go along with the streamlined headed cars, streamlined coaches and sleeping cars.
The two earliest modern streamliners the UP M-10000 (later CITY OF SALINA) and CB&Q 9900 (later PIONEER ZEPHYR) each provided limited food service and this was served at ones seat from a small buffet in each train. The articulated M-10000 buffet was in the third cars Bullet shaped rear end. The articulated stainless steel 9900 ZEPHYR buffet was located in the forward end of that trains second car. The M-10000 and 9900 ZEPHYR trains provided limited beverage service. Even though prohibition ended in 1933 the territory the M-10000 operated in was mostly Kansas and this state was still dry. The 9900 ZEPHYR on the other hand served alcoholic beverages in the first two rows of coach seats and in the Parlor Lounge since it operated in Nebraska, Iowa and Missouri all wet states. In fact the 9900 ZEPHYR served alcohol on every route it operated in. Probably the most well remembered route operated by the 9900 ZEPHYR was as the ADVANCE DENVER ZEPHYR along with the MARK TWAIN ZEPHYR on a fast 16-hour schedule overnight between Denver and Chicago while the CB&Q awaited delivery of there new streamlined DENVER ZEPHYRS.
The first lightweight streamlined trains to provide streamlined dining –lounge cars were the Milwaukee Road HIAWATHAS of May 29, 1935. Each of the two HIAWATHA train sets carried a 48-seat TIP TOP TAP Tavern Lounge Café as the first car behind the streamlined 4-4-2 locomotives tender.
Some will argue that the TWIN ZEPHYRS introduced April 21, 1935 were the first streamlined trains with a dining-lounge. Actually they had a four seat buffet where one could sit at a lunch counter and order food or beverage, but the vast majority of passengers of these trains were served at ones seat like the previous 9900 ZEPHYR.
The M-10001 CITY OF PORTLAND operated with an articulated 30-seat dining 10-seat lounge car for the first class sleeping car passengers, while coach passengers were once again served at their seats airline style from the buffet in the trains blind rear end observation.
The B&O ROYAL BLUE introduced June 24, 1935 featured a 9-seat lunch counter 32-seat dining car. The ROYAL BLUE operated a daily Jersey City – Washington round trip.
The Alton a wholly owned subsidiary of the B&O at the time introduced an identical train to the ROYAL BLUE named the ABRAHAM LINCOLN between Chicago and St. Louis round trip daily beginning July 1, 1935. The only difference in the two trains was in the material they were constructed of, the B&O ROYAL BLUE was built using mostly aluminum with a steel center sill while the C&A ABRAHAM LINCOLN was constructed entirely of Cor-Ten steel.
The articulated IC GREEN DIAMOND of May 17, 1936 featured an articulated 44-seat coach with 16-seat dinette section at the rear. The kitchen was located in the car to the rear along with an 8-seat dinette section, 18-revenue seat parlor 4-seat lounge observation.
The NYC would introduce the first streamlined twin-unit Dining car with the introduction of the MERCURY July 15, 1936 between Cleveland and Detroit round trip daily. Car 1003 featured 18-revenue coach seats and a large kitchen-pantry. The trailing car 1004 featured 64-dining seats. The MERCURY was the first streamlined train to have one entire car devoted to lounge space the 1015 TOLEDO a 31-seat tavern lounge car.
First trains to introduce streamlined 48-seat dining cars were the CMSTP&P HIAWATHAS of October 11, 1936 operating between Chicago and Minneapolis.
The 48-seat and 36-seat dining cars would become the two standard sizes during the streamline era.
First streamlined train to introduce Parlor-Buffet and Lounge facilities all in one car was the CB&Q DENVER ZEPHYRS of November 7, 1936. These cars featured 10-seat Parlor-Buffet 31-seat Lounge Observations bringing up the markers of these overnight speedsters between Denver and Chicago nightly in each direction.
The first streamlined SP DAYLIGHTS of March 21, 1937 provided a 24-seat Lunch Counter 18-seat Tavern Lounge car and a 40-seat Dining car. Hardly adequate when one considers a sold-out DAYLIGHT carried 392-coach passengers and 57-parlor car passengers. And the DAYLIGHTS rarely ran less than full in each direction daily.
Passengers lucky enough to ride the first streamlined AT&SF SUPER CHIEF rode in true luxury in their 39-3/4 hour dash between Chicago and Los Angeles. Only 121 sleeping car passengers were carried per trip. But those 121- passengers were provided Bar-Lounge facilities for 25-passengers, a 36-seat dining car, and a sleeper-lounge observation with lounge seating for 13.
For the 216-passengers of the streamlined all-room TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED a 38-seat Dining car that doubled as a nightclub after the dinner sittings were completed. Two separate bar–lounges were also provided for passenger enjoyment one seating 30 the other 32.
The first of the popular seven-car coach streamliners the SAL SILVER METEOR provided revenue seating for 280 passengers with a Tavern Lounge seating 30. Additional 30-Lounge seats were located in the rear coach- Observation. A 48-seat Dining car provided food service at reasonable prices for the trips between New York and Miami and New York and St. Petersburg.
Another luxury train that operated for two winter seasons only was the ARIZONA LIMITED operating every other day between Chicago and Phoenix over the CRI&P-SP route. The first season this train operated it provided 93 passengers per trip with a 36-seat Dining car and the Sleeper Lounge Observation provided seating for 27.
The Southern Pacific DAYLIGHTS of 1940 introduced the first triple-unit dining sets. The three articulated cars consisted of an 80-seat Coffee Shop car featuring tables for four at one end, at the other end was a 72-seat dining room car with tables for four. The center car was a kitchen with pantries at each end to serve the dining and coffee shop cars.
The 1940 DAYLIGHTS carried a separate 68-seat Tavern Lounge car. The capacity of the 1940 DAYLIGHTS was 354 in coach and 54 in the parlors.
In July 1941 the SP introduced the new all room streamlined LARKS between Los Angeles and Oakland-San Francisco nightly in each direction. These trains provided sleeping accommodations for 283 passengers. Mid-train was located the triple-unit LARK Club. Each provided crew dormitory space and the kitchen in the first unit, followed by a 48-seat dining room car followed by the third of the articulated cars that contained a 48-seat tavern lounge with bar. Since the LARK departed after most peoples dinner hour the dining unit served as additional tavern lounge space in the evening. In turn the lounge space could be set up for the breakfast crowd in the mornings. The LARK Sleeper-Lounge Observations that operated between Los Angeles and Oakland provided a buffet with seating for 27. This operated as mostly a lounge car in the evening but was fully capable of serving any dinner menu item if called upon to do so. In the mornings breakfast was served before arrival in Los Angeles or Oakland.
Among the first postwar streamlined trains introduced were the L&N seven car HUMMING BIRDS between New Orleans and Cincinnati. These coach streamliners carried 288-passengers and provided those passengers with one 48-seat Dining car and a 52-seat Tavern Lounge car. These diesel-powered streamliners were introduced November 17, 1946 along with two identical consists for the new L&N-NC&STL GEORGIAN trains between St. Louis and Atlanta daily in each direction.
The big breakthrough for coach passengers came December 12, 1947 with the introduction of the world’s first streamlined dome equipped trains the VISTA DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS of the CB&Q. These trains operated twice daily round trip service between Chicago and the Twin Cities. The first car in each seven-car stainless steel streamliner was a baggage-buffet 24-seat Lounge car. The sixth car in each consist was a 48-seat Dining car. Each of the trains other five cars featured 24-non revenue seats in the domes. The new VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS provided revenue seating for 244-passengers and non-revenue seating for 192.
The VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR introduced March 20, 1949 was America’s first cruise train operated jointly by the CB&Q-D&RGW-WP between Chicago and San Francisco provided space for 267 revenue passengers with 221 non-revenue seats available for the passengers in Domes, Dining and Lounge areas.
Probably the ultimate in lounging space was provided by the 1955 version of the GN EMPIRE BUILDER between Chicago and Seattle-Portland with non-revenue seating in the Dining, lounge and domes for 279 passengers.
Three railroads the ACL, PRR and C&O provided cars with theaters, and the latter two play areas for children.
The railroads offered a variety of dining cuisine following the second world war ranging from Automat cars, Buffets, Hamburger Grill, Grill, Lunch Counters, to full Dining facilities.
Many railroads took great pride in the food they served employing some of the finest chefs in the land.
In the case of the Canadian Pacific Railway they owned some of the finest hotels in Canada. These hotels including the 1,500 rooms ROYAL YORK hotel in Toronto, it had multiple dining rooms and employed some of the world’s leading chef’s and was the training ground for many of the railways onboard chefs.
Not to be outdone rival Canadian National Railway also owned many fine first class hotels coast-to-coast in Canada and like the Canadian Pacific they were the training ground for many of the Railways fine Chefs.
Probably few railroad dining cars made any money for their owning roads following WW II. But those railroads that realized they had to supply food anyway why not supply the best. These railroads seemed to enjoy a loyal passenger following more so than those who let the dining and lounge cars become economy type operations.
Many railroads did an excellent job providing dining car service throughout the streamline era to the very end that did their commissary departments proud. Among these railroads were the GN, NP, CB&Q, UP, AT&SF, IC, ACL, SAL, SOU, PRR, NYC, CN, CP, D&RGW, L&N and WP and certain others were outstanding. Those railroads that gave up on passengers was reflected in their dining and lounge service such as the SP and they’re hated Hamburger Grill cars and even more detested Automat cars that followed. The MP, SL-SF, KATY, C&NW, C&EI, CMSTP&P, CRI&P, CGW, and B&M left much to be desired in the final years before Amtrak.
No railroads commissary departments were revenue producers after about 1955, but those that chose to set only the finest cuts of beef, fre***rout, pheasant etc. before their passengers continued to enjoy reasonable passenger loads. Their seemed to be a direct correlation between passenger loads and dining car services provided. This was particularly true where two or more railroads served the same origin and destination terminals, those serving the finest fare operated with the larger passenger counts even in some cases where that train may be operated on a slower schedule.
The B&O was a fine example of a railroad that put a great deal of emphasis on fine dining and enjoyed reasonable passenger loyalty as a direct result. The two major rivals of the B&O the PRR and NYC offered faster trains in direct competition but only their finest trains such as the TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED and BROADWAY LIMITED provided cuisine with real class.
Single dining cars of the streamlined passenger trains ranged from 36-seat through 48-seat to 56-seat dining cars. The latter were only popular on two roads the C&NW and the UP. In the case of the UP 56-seat dining cars they only numbered two and were assigned to the 1941 CITY OF LOS ANGELES trains. The large capacity diners assigned to CITY OF LOS ANGELES service were unable to stock enough food for a Chicago-Los Angeles run. Instead these dining cars replenished their stocks at such cities as Omaha, Cheyenne and Salt Lake City enroute.
Those 56-seat dining cars purchased by the C&NW were assigned to the 400’s between Chicago and the Twin Cities. With the distance only 400 miles these cars were able to carry enough food for the trip. If additional items were needed they were placed on the train for the return trips the next day.
The 36-seat Dining cars were popular with many railroads that operated long distance services, but the 48-seat dining car was by far the most popular of the streamlined dining cars.
The CB&Q offered Budd built stainless steel 48-seat Dining cars beginning with the postwar VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS. In the case of the CB&Q-D&RGW-WP VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR offered a 48-seat dining car that during the slower winter season offered 32 dining seats and four booths for four serving cocktails. In the busy summer months the four booths were utilized for dining as well increasing the dining cars capacity to 48 per seating. The advantage to this type of arrangement was less crew being required during the slower winter months.
Of course the Northeast to Florida and Midwest to Florida streamliners busy seasons were the winter months opposite to the western trains. The ACL and SAL utilized furloughed Dining car crews from several Northeastern railroads during the winter months in their Florida streamliners. This meant that the ACL and FEC did not need to furlough dining car crews in the summer as they simply returned to the Northeastern railroads they worked for.
Many railroads offered more than a single dining car per train consist, often providing two separate dining cars and one or two lounges. Several of the Western railroads provided separate dining facilities for the coach and first class sleeping car passengers. Often the coach dining facilities were of the lunch-counter or coffee shop type and the same car in many cases provided lounge space as well for the coach passengers.
This was true of the Santa Fe coach streamliner EL CAPITAN. The first of these coach streamliners introduced in February 1938 was five cars with a revenue passenger capacity of 186. A single lunch-counter dining car doubled as a Tavern-Lounge car during non-meal hours. Following WW II the postwar EL CAPITANS grew to fourteen car streamliners with a passenger capacity of 230 passengers. To provide food service for these passengers the Santa Fe provided two lunch-counter dining cars and a complete Tavern Lounge car as well.
Popular in the Northeastern United States were the streamlined Grill Dining cars operated by the NYNH&H and NYC. The New Haven operated their Grill Dining cars and Dining cars with waitresses in the New York-Boston corridor. The C&O operated the PERE MARQUETTES with waitresses as well.
Other railroads turned to Twin Unit dining cars to serve the hungry passengers. The Union Pacific first introduced streamlined twin unit dining cars in 1937 in the CHALLENGER trains between Chicago and Los Angeles. These two cars were connected by a drawbar and a single number covered both cars 5100 – 5105. The first unit contained crew dormitory accommodations and the Kitchen. The second unit was a 68-seat dining room car. Other railroads such as the PRR, NYC, ACL, IC, and B&O operated streamlined twin unit dining cars over the years.
Only one railroad would ever operate triple unit dining cars and triple unit Dining-Lounge cars and that railroad was the Southern Pacific. They operated the triple-unit dining-kitchen-coffee shop cars in the DAYLIGHT, SAN JOAQUIN DAYLIGHT and SHASTA DAYLIGHT. The SP operated the triple units with Dormitory Kitchen-Dining-Lounge arrangements in the overnight LARK and CASCADE trains operating in California and Oregon only.
Today both Amtrak and Via Rail Canada provide dining car crews of either sex. In the case of Amtrak they are assigned to coast-to-coast services while Via Rail Canada operates waitresses on day trains only as they do not provide separate dormitory space such as the Amtrak Superliners provide.
The Superliner Dining cars are equipped with full kitchen and pantry on the lower level and 80-seat dining room on the upper level. Two electric dumbwaiters provide food delivery from the lower level to the upper level smart waiters (the ones who collect the tips) to serve the passengers. These are the largest capacity single dining cars operated by any railroad. Santa Fe operated similar capacity dining cars when they introduced the Hi-Level EL CAPITAN train sets in 1956. These same Hi-Level EL CAPITAN trains introduced the “TOP OF THE CAP” Lounge cars with a Newsstand, Bar and 60-seat Lounge on the upper level. On these cars lower level was a Buffet with an additional 28-seat Lounge.
Amtrak copied the earlier Santa Fe Hi-Levels when they invested in Superliners for western runs and some eastern runs where clearances were not a problem. The Superliners are slightly higher than the Hi-Levels but after conversion to HEP they operate without any problems in the Superliner consists.
The Canadian National Railroad 48-seat dining cars on the transcontinental and maritime trains doubled as bingo parlors in the evening. Although prizes were small they were quite well received. The grand prize on the western trains was usually a free dinner in the diner and on the maritime trains the grand prize was usually a free breakfast.
Another service provided on long distance CN trains was free coffee or tea and pastries for first class passengers each morning in their lounge car between Breakfast and Lunch giving sleeping car passengers a chance to become acquainted with one another. Via Rail Canada continues these Canadian National services to this day. Probably the most luxurious dining cars in regular service today are those rebuilt former Canadian Pacific Budd built dining cars having been rebuilt by Via Rail Canada.
The Via Rail Canada CANADIAN is probably one of the last true luxury trains operating today as rebuilt and HEP equipped.
Many railroads turned to the combination dining-lounge cars for food and beverage service. One of the major railroads to put their faith in these type cars was the Missouri Pacific-Texas & Pacific. These two railroads owned a total of two streamlined dining cars and twelve streamlined dining-lounge cars. The dining –lounge cars were assigned to the MISSOURI RIVER EAGLE, COLORADO EAGLE, and TEXAS EAGLES 21-22. Only TEXAS EAGLES 1-2 carried the dining cars and then only between St. Louis and Fort Worth. West of Fort Worth the TEXAS EAGLES 1-2 featured dining-lounge cars. Other railroads operated dining-lounge cars on secondary trains or during non-peak periods of travel. Many full dining cars were operated as dining-lounge cars in the 1960s.
On other railroads where a full dining car was not needed the railroads had the car builders deliver partial dining cars combined with other type cars. Among the combinations were Coach-Dining, Baggage-Dining, Railway Post Office-Dining, Parlor-Dining and even Sleeping-Dining.
The same was true for the Lounge cars they also were combined with other car types. There were Baggage-Lounge, Railway Post Office-Lounge, Coach-Lounge, Sleeping-Lounge and Dining-Lounge.

TTFN Al
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:13 AM
Just back late last night from a "spur of the moment, seat of the pants" visit with friends in Apopka, FL. I had little warning of this "last second" invitation to stay for a couple of days with the fellow I mentioned in a previous post. Only now have I reached Mike's post of May 30th on the C & O which followed Tom's incredible "70" pix of the Air Museum which Tom, Rob, Heather and I experienced earlier this month. I can tell all of you that it was a very emotionally moving event. In particular the story of the coragious actions supporting the Lancaster bomber prominently displayed, caught me with a "lump in my throat." Indeed,Tom, this is another case of being even better "the second time around."[^] Rob, your descriptions surpass the various Museum brochures as well.[tup] X a google. I am typing "on borrowed time" at the moment but I couldn't let Tom's departure slip by without relating my fondest wishes for a bon voyage to Alaska with high hopes for a safe and rewarding rail venture there. Know that I join the others in wishing you and your "better half" a memorable adventure. I can't tell you and Rob how "close to home" your efforts on the synopsis of our first Rendesvous in Toronto is appreciated. Yes, the pix are now "on file" for review any time for the future...keepers for sure. I'm having some car problems and must drop the Crayola off at the Toyota service center this morning. I will return a.s.a.p. for a proper post and catch up to the current status of the latest posts. For now, I must appologize for the untimely and "out of the blue" event which kept me away for a couple of days. In the meantime, it will be more review and getting up to speed for me. Have a wonderful trip Tom, and here is a special meaning for the salutation: "Happy Rails."
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Posted by coalminer3 on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:56 AM
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

The weather here for the past few days feels more like August than May; hope our ‘steamed proprietor has his industrial strength ‘skeeter killer!

Thanks to all for kind words re my C&O post.

Rob – Thanks for sharing the Andrew Mynarski story. As do more than a few others in this group, I have an interest in things mechanical and certainly in military history, etc.

Dave – I know what you mean about pre-merger lines. The biggest problem with “chasing” trains here is that a lot of locations are heard to reach unless you have a guide or know the area well. I was fortunate in having a guide when I moved here yrs. ago; now I get to be guide for folks sometimes.

I have a deep affection for the L&N (pre-merger) as I was fortunate to have access to a lot of places that others did not. I need to write some of that up some day as well. The folks who worked for the “Old Reliable” were dedicated, knowledgeable, and willing to let me “tag along,” especially when they found I didn’t mind getting my hands dirty.

There were a fair amount of former NC&StL employees still around as well, as the N&C had been merged into the L&N not that long b4 I moved to Nashville. That was a whole different world heading across the mountains into Georgia – lovely country, some excellent people to be with, and some real hard railroading as well.

Al – Thanks for the car information; always appreciated.

I don’t have anything to add to the model section today, but here are a few points to ponder.

Deep Thoughts for Those Who Take Life Way Too Seriously
1. Save the whales. Collect the whole set.
2. A day without sunshine is like....night.
3. On the other hand, you have different fingers.
4. Remember, half the people you know are below average.
5. He who laughs last thinks slowest.
6. Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.
7. Support bacteria. They're the only culture some people have.
8. A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
9. How many of you believe in psycho kinesis?...Raise my hand.
10. OK...so what's the speed of dark?
11. When everything is coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.
12. Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.
13. How much deeper would the ocean be without sponges.
14. What happens if you get scared half to death twice?
15. I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.
16. Why do psychics have to ask you for your name?
17. Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what happened.
18. Just remember---if the world didn't suck, we would all fall off.
19. Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
20. Life isn't like a box of chocolates....it's more like a jar of jalapeno's. What you do today, might burn your***tomorrow

Work safe
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Posted by trolleyboy on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 9:31 AM
Good morning gents. I see that tilla , & cashinator are not empty so at least we can cover the flights over for Tom and his bride [tup][:D] Been a fairly steady morning so far which is good given our depleted resorces,kinda say's allot about this group I would say. Thank-you all for your continuing support [tup]

Al Wonderfull , streamlinner car info as per usual sir [bow] I think that we can spring for a piant job for Boris's shed,just nothing gaudy we do have to keep him calm. I'm thinking that Pullman green might be a good choice what do the rest of you think ?I think that Pikes day will be a minor bit this week, as always though Wed, are wide open for full disscussion of ebverything classic. [tup]

CM3 Thanks for stopping by this morning sir. You sir are the " Old Reliable "of this group fer sure fer sure. I'd love to read some of your experiances down along the L&N. What beautifull country they served, and they were an Alco heavy railroad ! That's two definate [tup] for any railway in my mind. I'm glad that you dropped your "thots" of the day upon us, we have been without Doug's jokes good bad or otherwise for a while and needed the shot in the giggle bone.

Ted I had wondered where you had gotten to. Now if we can only find Nick.I'll drop him an e-mail and see how the land lies.Time for a new Volkswagon by the sounds of it Ted [:D] A hot yellow convertable beetle should work well for you in Florida [tup] Convertable bugs have other fringe benefits as well [;)][:P] Right Cindy [?]Anywho those were pictures to keep I must say. i have just got back the few shots I took of the rendezvous, I must say that for some reason I didn't take many, too much chat I think [;)]I'll post the good one's on Sunday.

Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 9:41 AM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !
Another encore from the back pages.Another Southwestern Ontario steam gem, originally posted on page 226.
Rob

QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy



CLASSIC STEAM # 14 THE CANADA SOUTHERN ST CLAIR BRANCH


Until 1960 the onlooker would have seen plumes of smoke rising from the stacks of steam engines, or exhaust from diesels trailing strings of passenger cars and boxcars.This was the Candaa southern's St Clair Branch. Part of NYC's Canadian holdings.

It was one of the several southern Ontario branchlines that the founders thought would be a convienient shortcut accross ontario between American cities. In this CSR branches case Buffalo and Chicago. It was launched by Canadians William Thompson and Adam Crooke, albeit financed by the NYC.


While the mainline of the CSR ran arrow strait from Niagara Falls to Windsor, this St Clair branch veered northwestward from a junction just west of St Thomas ON to the St Clair River. Here, at a point on the railroad called Courtright ( named after chief financial contributor Milton Courtright ) the railroad hopped to establish a major rail terminus,with abridge to carry traffic accross the busy river to St Clair on the Michigan side.From there trains would continue on west to Chicago and points further west.


The American link failed however, and the Windsor route with it's tunnel ( GT ) under the Detroit River earned the bulk of the traffic. The grand scheme of a bridge over the river was reduced to barge service. It operated accross the river between Courtright and St Clair for a few years till it burned and sank. With it sank the last vestiges of the American link.

The CSR had pinned it's early hopes for revenue on the oil boom that had started in the early 1860's which put places like Oil Springs and Petrolia on the map. To provide easier access to these prospering places, a new line, The Chatham Sarnia & Erie ( CSE) , was created. Originating at a place called Shrewsbury on Lake Erie,it was intended to pass through Oil Springs, Petrolia and terminate at Sarnia; however, the project never went beyond short spurs from the St Clair Branch, south to Oil Springs and North to Petrolia.

Later , when the oil industry moved to Sarnia, the CSE was absorbed by the Canada Southern,which rerouted the unbuilt section to bypass the oil fields and follow instead the St Clair River into Sarnia. Finally in 1960, the whistles fell silent on the CSR's St Clair Branch and the track was lifted and the stations removed.

Enjoy Rob

Researched with the help of Ron Brown's Ghost Railway's of Ontario- good general reference books on the obscure and unusual rail lines. Two Books Volume 1 and 2 highly recomended reading for those wanting to learn of the Ghosts of railways past.
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Posted by trolleyboy on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:03 PM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

Here's another Classic steamer for you all to mull over this afternoon. Cindy lets keep those frosty mugs full for the trackgangs what with the heat today, [8D][:0][xx(]I'm sure that they all have a thirst.[;)]


QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy

Allright then Leon another Keith's please. One more bot of steam from the vault this evening I think.

CLASSIC STEAM # 20 THE BUFFALO BRANTFORD & GODERICH


The BB&G : Fort Erie to Stratford

In the 1850's there was all sorts of speculation over where new rail lines were going to be built./ As the railroad building bug had bitten hard. As the Grand Trunk and Chief Rival Great Western Railway began to build their main routes, the various towns and villages clamoured to get on the lines.Despite the various municipalities wi***o participate in and welcome the railway's to town, the land owners tended to hol dout for top dollar forcing the railways to give many of them a wide berth. Despite the want this was not an exception with the merchants of Brantford.

Tired of shipping their wares and importing raw materials along the slow and seasonal Grand River Canal ( barge canal it's remainder is at the end of my street ), they demanded the fast year round access to markets that the railway's could provide. In 1849 when the Great Western was surveying a route which would pass north of Brantford , the group ( merchants ) formed a company to raise money for a railway to Link Buffalo with Goderich on Lake Huron. to thier delight this initiative met with the favour in both communities and with most of the other municipalities along the proposed line.

Surveys began, starting in Fort Erie, then west to the Grand River where the surveyors followed the east bank of the river into Brantford. the line then crossed the Grand at Paris before angling northwesterly into Stratford. In Stratford it met a roadblock named John Gywnn, who was trying to promote another railway that would run from Toronto to Guelph then on to Goderich. He lobbied parliamment to deny the BBG permission to proceed beyond Stratford. Gwynn failed,and the legislature approved the BBG. Also there were no govt, funds involved in the construction. The BBG was the only railway of it's day built without gov. money.

In 1854, before the Grand Trunk even opened it's Montreal - Toronto line the first wood burning steamer pulled into Brantford from Buffalo. The newspaper's of the day tell of a gala celebration and fireworks in fron t of the court house. With a Grand Ball starting at 8pm in the second story of the depots machine shop ! twop abnds one from Buffalo the other the Brantford Philharmonic and 1500 guests !

Two months later the railroads problems continued. The railway buildings were set ablaze and destroyed. Then when they reached Stratford, in sept., it came face to face with the Grand Trunk which uncerimoniously removed the BBG's rails. The BBG's boss then ordered his local contractor to tear up te Grand Trunk aand relay the BBG, and set men to watch it. The GT had plans of it's own, and sent two carloads of armed and drunken navies. However cooler heads prevailed and the confrontation did not happen.

In Ridgeway ( near Ft Erie )later the same year 30 BBG labourers angry atv not being paid began to rip up tracks. The BBG then brought in scab workjers to repair the damage guarded by 25 speacial constibles. Theifght that ensued left one dead aand several injured.

In 1858 the line finally reached Goderich and instantly hit the profit column. The new terminus at Goderich allowed the BBG to access the Lake freighters which now could make two trips a year instead of one ( sailing vessels ).Townsfolk also could ride the rails to the various beaches and resorts along the Lake shore, something many could not do before the railway.

At Fort Erie, a ferry ( BBG owned) would shuttle people accross the entrance of the Niagara river from Buffalo to a new warf terminal in Ft Eries Downtown, and then later to the GT's Victoria later Bridgeburg station ( approx where the peace bridge is today )


From Ft Erie the line ran strait accross country to Port Colbourne where the first station on the line sat at a diamond ( TH&B)on the east side of the Welland canal. This lione was now called the Buffalo and Lake Huron ( just before the 1869 takeover by the GT ) Mnay local resorts an destinations grew out of this line, Ft Erie racetrack,Crystal Beach amusement park ( & town ) the US Based Humberstone resort at Humberstone, now part of Pt Colbourne. A street is still called Tennessee ave there. Another flag stop called Lorraine was set up to serve a US enclave ( summer homes ) called Point Albino which still refuses non residents access along their private road to a lovely old lighthouse at the point. Which has been designated a National Historical Sight

West of Port Colbourne the BBG established a station at Wainfleet then as it approached the Grand River at Dunnville it made use of the already established river port facilities there and provided transport for local fish and manufactured goods. At Cannfield JCt abit further along, the BBG crossed the Canada Southern and the Canada Air Line . stopping at Port Dover,Caladonia,Cainsville and then finally Brantord.From Brantford it moved onto Paris amd crossed the grand over the high level bridge ( still in use today )before meeting the Great Western at Paris Jct.
From Paris the line continued accross the fertile farm belt to Stratford then onto Guelph and Toronto.

The line is still part of the Corridor 90% of which is still intact. the main Toronto-Buffalo mainline of the CN today.


Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:12 PM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

Another Classic culled from the archieves. This one from our resident story spinner and stand up comedian Barndad Doug[:D][8)][;)]. Enjoy it all again, hopefully the real Doug will be back with us in a few days ( daze )

Rob


QUOTE: Originally posted by barndad



The True Story of Jesse James, Train Robber Sep 1932 Railroad Stories

The James homestead at Kearney, Mo. Where the notorious Jesse spent his boyhood


There were few human touches in the criminal career of Jesse Woodson James, train bandit, whose gang operated for fifteen years in Missouri and Kansas, occasionally making forays into near-by states.

The search for this outlaw chief was one of the keenest this country has ever known. He mocked railroad bulls, the police, the sheriffs. In vain did the Pinkertons send out their best men. Some never returned. Detectives bombed Jesse’s house, tearing off his mother’s right arm and murdering his half-brother. A total of $75,000 was offered for the arrest and conviction of Jesse and his older brother, Frank.

Born in 1847 at Kearney, Mo., Jesse was only four when his father, a clergyman, went to California in search of gold and died there. The evil influence in the early lives of the James boys may be traced to William G. Quantrill, known as “the bloodiest man in the Civil War.” Quantrill was a Confederate guerilla leader. His outstanding feat was the sacking of Lawrence, Kan., a peaceful town which he invaded in 1863 at the head of about 450 men, including Frank James. They killed 182 of the population in one day!

Two months afterward, Jesse, a lad of fifteen, was plowing a cornfield when Federal militia decided to “teach the cub a lesson” – apparently for no reason except that his big brother was with Quantrill. Jesse was lashed until the blood came. His stepfather, a kind-hearted country doctor, was strung up to a tree.

The future brigand vowed vengeance. Young as he was, he joined Quantrill’s irregulars and fought under the banner until the was ended. Then he tried to surrender but was shot twice in the chest – wounds which never completely healed.

An outcast from society, Jesse organized some of Quantrill’s men into that terrible murderous band which held up railroad trains, banks, and stagecoaches. Thus “Jesse James” became a name of terror. No railroad man passing through the Middle West in those days knew when his train would be held up or when he himself would become a target for bandit bullets. An old minister who had known the desperado since childhood once remonstrated with him: “Jesse, why don’t you stop these things?” The reply was: “If you tell me how I can stop, I’ll gladly do so – but I don’t aim to stop right under a noose!”

That was it. Once embarked upon a series of crimes, there was no turning back. Jesse James lived perpetually in the shadow of the gallows and within earshot of whistling bullets. He was determined not to be taken alive – and he never was! Jesse James never saw the inside of a jail, although he carried so many bullet wounds that people said you could dig into his body almost anywhere and strike lead.

The first train robbery which can be traced to the redoubtable Jesse occurred on the Kansas Pacific Railroad on December 12, 1874, near Muncie, Kan., a flag stop ten miles from the old union depot at Kansas City, Mo. There were six highwaymen, said to be the James brothers, Clell Miller, two of the three Younger brothers, Cole and Frank, and a switchman named Bud McDaniels.

In some was Bud had learned that a train leaving Denver with a shipment of gold dust would pass Muncie at 4:45pm. Six horsemen, armed with carbines and heavy revolvers, masked with red bandanas, rode over there and got busy. As a curtain-raiser they robbed Purdee’s general store of $24 and forced the proprietor to help them pile a lot of ties upon the track. At the same time they set out the flag at the station, to make doubly sure the train would stop.

Engineer Robert Murphy, on the train from the West, seeing the flag and the obstruction on the track, closed his throttle and ground to a stop. The robbery had been well planned. While one man climbed into the cab and covered the engine crew, the others cowed the trainmen and passengers. A freight train was close behind, so Conductor Brinkenhoff started back to flag it. “Where the hell you going?” Jesse demanded, firing a shot in his general direction. Brinkenhoff explained. The bandit leader was unconvinced. “That’s O.K.,” injected Switchman McDaniels, who knew his railroading. “He just wants tuh head off another train an’ keep it from crashing into our rear.”

“Well, he better watch his step,” growled Jesse. “All right, let him go.” Meanwhile the crew were forced to uncouple the express car and pull it away a short distance from the rest of the train, and the looting began. Frank Webster, The Wells, Fargo & Co. express messenger, had been caught unprepared, with the doors of his car unlocked. Two ruffians leaped into the car. “Let’ssee how quick you can open that safe, fella,” said one of them. “We’re in a hell of a big hurry.” “But I don’t know the combination,” protested Webster. “i-“

“Maybe this’ll teach you!” bellowed the thug, striking him on the head with a revolver butt. Dazed, the messenger did as he was told. The booty consisted of $30,000 in gold dust, $20,000 in currency, and jewelry valued at about $5,000. All of this was dumped into a wheat sack – the usual receptacle carried by the James boys on their raids – and the rest of the car was searched thoroughly. It contained nothing else of value except some silver bricks, which were too heavy to carry off. As they left, Jesse flung a parting threat at the express messenger: “If you poke your lousy head out of that door we’ll shoot it off!”

Meanwhile, two members of the gang had been robbing the passengers of money and watches, which they returned upon learning what had been taken from the express car. “We’re not after chicken feed!” they said. To delay pursuit, the brigands shot two horses which they found in the vicinity, then mounted their own steeds and galloped off. Waving a greeting to the engineer, one of the gunmen called out: “You can back up now and get your train,” and to the scared passengers he shouted: “Give our love to the folks in Kansas City.”

Murphy lost no time in hooking up and making the fastest possible run to Kansas City, but it was too late for posses to pick up the trail. The James gang had crossed over into Missouri and were hiding in the mountains. Two or three days later Bud McDaniels boasted to his girl friend in Kansas City that he had acquired a lot of jewelry, and made a date to take her on a buggy ride. But she did not keep the date. Instead, she went out with another man.

Bud was furious. Here he was ready to show a lady a good time, with lots of money, and she goes off with some other guy! Can you beat that? Felling the need for consolation, he drove over to a saloon and soon got tanked up. Late that night he was arrested for reckless driving and drunkenness. Searched at the police station, he was found to have more than $1,000 in cash, two six-shooters, and pieces of jewelry which were identified as part of the loot taken at Muncie.

“I bought that stuff for Susanna,” he insisted, “but I don’t give a *** who gets it now. She’s gone back on me.” This explanation seemed fishy to the authorities, who made an investigation, the upshot of which McDaniels was indicted for complicity in the holdup. The unlucky switchman escaped from a deputy sheriff before being placed on trial, but was located a few weeks later and was shot to death while resisting arrest.

[:I] An old hillbilly farmer had a wife who nagged him unmercifully. From morning till night (and sometimes later), she was always complaining about something. The only time he got any relief was when he was out plowing with his old mule. He tried to plow a lot.
One day, when he was out plowing, his wife brought him lunch in the field. He drove the old mule into the shade, sat down on a stump, and began to eat his lunch. Immediately, his wife began haranguing him again. Complain, nag, nag; it just went on and on. All of a sudden, the old mule lashed out with both hind feet; caught her smack in the back of the head. Killed her dead on the spot.
At the funeral several days later, the minister noticed something rather odd. When a woman mourner would approach the old farmer, he would listen for a minute, then nod his head in agreement; but when a man mourner approached him, he would listen for a minute, then shake his head in disagreement. This was so consistent, the minister decided to ask the old farmer about it.
So after the funeral, the minister spoke to the old farmer, and asked him why he nodded his head and agreed with the women, but always shook his head and disagreed with all the men. The old farmer said: "Well, the women would come up and say something about how nice my wife looked, or how pretty her dress was, so I'd nod my head in agreement".
"And what about the men?" the minister asked.
"They wanted to know if the mule was for sale". [:I]
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: mid mo
  • 1,054 posts
Posted by pwolfe on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:13 PM
Hi Tom and all.

I have borrowed Alan's computer for a short while, and I have not a Bathams over here yet so I had better get one and get around in.

A Happy Birthday to DAVE.

There has been some great posts and pics while I have been away and I will study them more when I get back.

Between working on the house here I have managed to go on a Steam Tour Sat from Birmingham to York with LMS Jubilee class 4-6-0' Leander' and are going to the Severn Valley Railway tomorrow( they have Bathams there), hopefully there should be some pics from the day.

Its been good to call in Our Place again and I shall have a pint for you all. PETE.
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • 4,190 posts
Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 7:34 PM
A round for the house, Leon, a name you have in common with the great Leon Bismarck "Bix" Biederbecke.

Pete, always good to see you, enjoy your ride tomorrow.

Al, your post today on dining cars was particularly informative because it captured the essense of so many different trains in a nutshell.

CM3, your fine post on Tuesday prompts "end of an era" photos.

L&N E7 #793 at Cincinnati after last Pan-American, April 30, 1971
http://rrhistorical-2.com/lnhs/images/pict7lg.jpg

Last PennCentral Federal at Boston, April 30, 1971
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo=2005070918253712325.jpg&order=byyear&page=4&key=1971

Last Santa Fe Super Chief/El Capitan leaving Chicago, April 30, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/r/rr5-48.jpg.49746.jpg

Last UP City train leaving Chicago, April, 30, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/r/rr5-35.jpg.28987.jpg

Last UP City of Los Angeles at San Bernardino, May 1, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/3/3093760-R1-E022.jpg.94540.jpg

And not quite the end yet, near enough:

C&O George Washington and conductor at Charlottesville, VA April 24, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/c/CO71042408w.jpg.13165.jpg

C&O train The George pulled by B&O locomotive? at Richmond April 24, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/c/CO71042409w.jpg.86786.jpg

B&O locomotive at Richmond station April 24, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/i/Image7.jpg.24019.jpg

Burlington train west of Naperville, IL April 7, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/r/rr445.jpg.51653.jpg

Burlington Western Star at Fargo, ND April 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/images2/a/AAA154_2.jpg.21795.jpg

NP Mainstreeter at Fargo, ND April 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/images2/0/005_5_2_3.jpg.63860.jpg

NP Mainstreeter at Detroit Lakes, MN April 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/0/002_2_2.jpg.80218.jpg

Penn Central at Albany/Renneslaer March 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/p/PC7103xx30w.jpg.38734.jpg

Metroliner southbound at Princeton Junction, NJ April 12, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/m/Metroliner.jpg.39266.jpg

N&W trains #17 & #3 at Roanoke, VA March 21, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/r/rr436.jpg.79067.jpg

D&H possibly Laurentian? at Schenectady March 20, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/d/DH710320w.jpg.24820.jpg

Rock Island train leaving Chicago April 9, 1971 (nice shot of Board of Trade, I remember the view from the top floor when it was still the tallest building in town)
http://64.246.11.82/images/r/rr452.jpg.63251.jpg

IC train at Chicago April 9, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/r/rr473.jpg.54881.jpg

Ted and Rob and Tom, I too was moved by the story of the Lancaster bomber, which I had never heard of until this week. Rob, thanks for posting it.

Andrew Mynarski didn't have to die, and knew he didn't have to die, and then he died in horrible pain, and with the burden of failing to save his friend. War is hell. Hopefully as Andy was dying he had consolation in the knowledge that he at least had tried to save his friend, and possibly a sense that, though a few miles and hours apart, neither he nor his friend will have died alone. For his part, Pat Brophy was loyal, too:
"I'll always believe that a divine providence intervened to save me because of what I had seen - so the world might know of a gallant man who laid down his life for a friend."

Also, in Brophy's words:

"Time froze while I was struggling inside the turret and Andy was fighting to get me out alive, a minute or more had flashed by like a second. Now the last agonizing seconds were like eternity. Prayers and random thoughts raced through my mind. Hail Mary, full of Grace ... I hope Andy got down okay ... Pray for us sinners ... The boys back at the squadron would probably say, 'Brophy? Oh he went for a Burton over Cambrai.'
http://www.constable.ca/mynarski.htm
Mike
  • Member since
    May 2014
  • 3,727 posts
Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 12:30 AM
Good late evening gents. Figured that i would pop in tonight and help Leon clean up the mess from today.

Pete Great to hear from you over in "Jolly Old" I'm glad to hear that you are having a fabulous time. [tup] can't wait to see the photo's once your back home. Very nice of you to take some time out of your holiday to pop by and say Hi [tup] We will keep the virtual Bantham's well stocked and chilled for you [;)][:D]

Mike Thanks as always to our url,research department. To late to dig through many of them tonight, but thanks for the pop up warning on the second one, I'll be sure to avoid it. I'm gald that you were able to find the extra Mynarski information,his story always has given me goose bumps. That's a wonderfull right up that you found, thanks for sharing it. I'll make sure to order an extra big prime rib in for you on friday night [tup]

Rob

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