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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 12:43 AM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

One last encore to tempt everyone with again tonight. Part one of th aCataract traction series.i'll rerun part 2 tomorrow.These were the two part series on the Hamilton Ontario Radial rail hub of the early part of the century.

Rob


QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy

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CLASSIC JUICE # 24 HAMILTON"S ELECTRIC LINES

Despite being Ontario's second largest city. Hamilton is largely forgotten in the rail,industry, yet the raiway history in Hamilton is long and verried and viable. This piece will attempt to show the highlights of Hamilton's lost electric railway heritage.Hamilton was the centre of one of canda's most extensive system of radial electric lines, known locally as the "Cataract". In 1896 the Cataract was first incorporated as the Cataract Power Company to develope hydro-electric power from the cataract at Decew Falls near St Catharines. In 1903 it changed it's name to Hamilton Cataract Light and Traction Company, and brought the separatly operatingradial systems in the area under one corporate banner.

In 1907 they built a four story terminal building in downtown Hamilton on the corner of Catharine and King streets, this building also served as the head office for the various rail lines in the network, and as such was considered the only "grand" station in Canada built exclusivly for the use of radial electric lines.

From this terminal line radiated out from Hamliton easterly to Vineland,southwesterly to Brantford,northwesterly to Dundas,and northeasterly to Oakville.Plans were to expand right to Lake Erie and down south to St Catharines and to Guelph and Toronto. However other jurisdictions and the roads and buses ended these plans. By the late 30's cars and busses had replaced the these electric radial lines.Many indeed say today that with all this infrastructure lost as most of these lines were running on private ROW's imagine how much less gridlock & polluition would plague southern Ontario's roads and highways, had the shortsitedness of ending this form of wide ranged transportation not been so quickly killed off !

Short synopsis of each line now follow. This is part 1. Part 2 will follow.

The Hamilton & Dundas Street Railway Company: Hamilton to Dundas

One of Canada's oldest street railways was the Hamilton & Dundas. It began in 1876 using a device known as a dummy engine. Because many residents(and their horses ) objected to steam engine puffing down the middle of the street,the railway placed the steam locomotive inside the bidy of a streetcar. Which pulled a trailer behind it.This worked well for two decades until 1897 when the line was electrified.

It's route took it from Hatt and Foundery Streets in Dundas, along Hatt St. to Dundas St ,then along Dundas Creek, through Ainslie woods into Hamilton via Aberdeen, Queen,Charlton,Mcnab and Main St's. In the beginning it ended at the GT station on Ferguason,then used the new Terminal station once it was built in 1907.

At it's peak, they would run half hour service.By 1923 bus competition became too much and the service ws ended.Some portions of the trackage were taken over by the TH&B, while the Hamilton Street Railway assumed control of the in city portions of the track.

Hamilton Grimsby & Beamsville Electric Railway Co: Hamilton to Vineland

In 1894 when the radials began running between Hamilton and Grimsby, the HGB became Canada's first major electrified radial railway line. In 1896, it was extended to Beamsville where a single stall car house was built, with a small passemger waiting room attached.For a few yearsn it operated as far as Vineland,anticipating a further expansion to St Catharines. However the municipal council of St Catharines,refuded to front the cash for the necessary bridge to cross twelve mile creek, so the Vineland portion of the line was scrapped.

Many radials carried passengers and freight the HGB was no exception as it had access to the fruitlands between Hamilton and Beamsville.Both the GT and TH&B had connections to the HGB: GT's was at Winnona, and the TH&B's was at their Kineer yard ontop the escarpment in Hamilton. Produce was transfered physically from HGB cars to those of the steam railway's,later the larger HGB cars would pull one or two refer's behind them.

From the new downtown terminal which the HGB began using in 1907, it's route took it along Main St to Sherman, then along Trolley ( now Gage St ) to Lawrence, then east on Lawrence to Bartonville. Here it switched to private ROW to Red Hill, and then back to what's now HWY 8 all the way to Beamsville.Station stops were made at Bartonville,Stoney Creek,Fruitland,Smith's ( site of busy cannery now ED Smith )Winnona,Pattisons,Grimsby,Grimsby Beach,and then the car barn/station at Beamsville.Most of the stations were small leanto type flagstops or located inside an existing line side building.

Like alot of radials it was involved in speacial recreational excurisions;"blossom speacials, trips to Grimsby Beach, and Grimsby Park etc. By 1927, Catract started using busses on some of this route, and following the takeover by Ontario Hydro commission on 1931 the bus line was sold to Grey Coach and this part of the electric line was shut down.

End of Part one.

Rob

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, June 1, 2006 7:10 AM
Looks like I had better brage in now although I'm only as far as Rob's post from May 30th Classic Steam #19, the Hiram Walker Booze Train. Hi Cindy, just a cuppa Joe and a cruller this a.m. please. Well, I hope by now Tom and Spouse are burning up the miles and the film on their Alaska R.R. journey. I surely bet that if there is a Budd Park Dome car and a ample ration of R.D.C.'s, the trip will be a great pleasur. It's a hard earned respite for them from this hot, sticky early summer. Fog is the only barrier that comes to mind in that still rugged country. Oh, and the occasional landslide can't be ruled out...only kidding. The Bull Moose attacks (head-on) have been greatly reduced during their "rut" since Alaska R.R. now uses "Critter friendly" air chimes and horns.

The C & O has been admirably covered from Mike's always approptiate selection of URL's to the nostalgic approach of CM3 being punctuated by Al and Rob's unfailing additions on rolling stock for both Northern and Southern divisions of the Road.[tup] Dave, good to see ya, do you feel any older? Yes, I too kick myself in the pants for being lethargic about Roads taken fro granted. It was all "high iron" and "varnish" in the 1950's for me.[v] Wow, what opportunities we missed back then. Say, it is very gratifying to see such enthusiastic posting of late. No thanks to me, the Thread seems to picking up from some forlorn periods indeed. I suppose "the road to hell will always be paved with good intentions." Although my vacancy didn't help; the "whirlwind" trip to Apopka paid off in spades for the future. I was given some books that many of you may be familiar with: "The Water Line Route," Chas. M Knoll; "The Twilight of Steam Lcomotives," Ron Ziel; "The Locomotives that Baldwin built." Fred Westing and "A Treasury of Railroad Folklore," B.A. Botkin and Alvin F. Harlow. From these volumes perhaps I may submit some meangingful input in the near future. First, I must check into the copyright permission, of course.

Yes Rob, if the new V.W. Beetle didn't cost as much as a Caddy Coup DeVille in the 90's, I would consider it. So far the Toyota has held up well and with only 78,000 miles, it would be premature to trade it now. Today, June 1st is the last day for buying hurricane emergency supplies with no sales tax charged. There are several items I need and with the cleaning lady coming by this morining, I'll be tied up until this p.m. Just want to wish everyone who makes "Our" Place tick, "good hunting" and a 5 star salute on the quality of your contributions. Toy and Model Trains Day yesterday wasn't a complete "bust" for I received some early (dated 1973) pix from Apopka and the HO layout that "Jack built." BTW, he is travelling to England this Sept. for an excursion ride on the Severn Valley Rwy. The Line runs from Bridgnorth to Kidderrminster via Hampton Loade, Country Park Halt, Highly, Arley, and Bewdley. This is a 16 mile line excursion employing live steam locomotives apparantly (from pix) of the 10 wheeler class. Hopefully, Nick and Pete might peek in and perhaps add more data on this unique operation. For now, it is getting to the errands at hand, then checking in with the salt mine and juggling time frame for greater participation hereabouts.

Boris' shed?[:O] How about camouflage? Oh yes, let's don't foget a big howdy to Jlampke on June 3rd. Even though there may not be a "Bash" as such, at least we can send best wishes. Happy rails to all.
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Posted by passengerfan on Thursday, June 1, 2006 7:14 AM
Encore

Good Morning Rob and anyone else up this early AM.

Just Thought I would throw this out their for today.

UP
M-10000
CITY OF SALINA
(January 31, 1935)
By Al

The first of these new lightweight streamlined articulated three car trains was the Union Pacific M-10000 in February 1934. Constructed by Pullman Standard the M-10000 later to be named CITY OF SALINA after entering scheduled service was constructed of Aluminum and steel with the three cars riding on four trucks. Two of these trucks were shared placed at the articulated joints of the three cars. The front of this three car articulated streamliner was dominated by a large grill not unlike those found on highway trucks of the period though on a much larger scale dominated the front of this three car articulated streamliner. A turret cab was mounted above and to the rear of this massive grill and this is where the engineer controlled the three car articulated train from. There was a single headlight mounted in the center of the turret cab facing forward with another directly behind facing straight up toward the heavens. This lead unit contained the 600 hp Winton V-12 cylinder distillate engine that powered the electric generator that supplied the electric power to the traction motors of the lead truck. To the rear of the engine room was a 30’ Railway Post Office Compartment, a small Baggage Room was next followed by a large air conditioner on one side and a train heat boiler on the opposite side at the rear of the M-10000 power unit. The second articulated car was numbered 10400 and shared the trailing truck of the M-10000 at its forward end and featured 56 revenue coach seats inside. The trailing truck of the 10400 was shared with the third articulated car 10401. This car shared the trains' third truck at its forward end with the rear of the 10400. The last truck under the 10401 was an independent truck supporting the rear of the 10401 only. This third car in the articulated streamliner seated 56 in coach seating and contained a buffet in the blind observation end shaped almost like a bullet. Waiters served the Coach passengers at their seats from the Buffet located at the rear of the 10401.
The exterior of the streamliner was painted in Streamliner Yellow with Leaf Brown Roofs and trim with Red separation stripes and lettering.
After an extensive tour of the country the M-10000 train set entered service January 10, 1935 between Salina, Kansas and Kansas City, Missouri round trip daily. The train received the name CITY OF SALINA during its first year in service and also began operating a longer daily schedule of Salina - Kansas City – Topeka – Kansas City – Salina. The M-10000 CITY OF SALINA was considered a success in the service it operated in and was replaced by a steam-powered train with a capacity of 200 on December 16, 1941. This was a case of the articulated streamliner being replaced by a conventional heavyweight train due to its limited seating capacity. The little three car articulated streamliner was then sent to Omaha and retired. On February 13, 1942 the train was sold to an Omaha scrap dealer for its Aluminum content to help in the war effort.

M-10000 Articulated 600 hp Winton Distillate Engine Power Unit with 30’ Railway Post Office Compartment and Baggage Room
10400 Articulated 56 Revenue seat Coach
10401 Articulated 56 Revenue seat Coach Buffet Blind End Observation

CB&Q
9900
PIONEER ZEPHYR
(November 11, 1934)
250 miles each way
by Al

The Budd Company of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, delivered the second articulated streamlined train of 1934 to the Burlington in May 1934. The entire three car articulated train was constructed of stainless steel shot welded together. The three car articulated streamliner was built with a Winton 201A 600 hp diesel engine powering an electric generator. The electric power generated by this generator supplied the power to a pair of traction motors mounted on the lead truck. The Shovelnose speedster was named ZEPHYR for ZEPHYRUS the god of the west wind in Greek mythology. The lead unit 9900 contained the shovelnose control cab followed by the engine room a 30’ Railway Post Office Compartment with Storage mail area occupying the remainder of the 9900. The articulated center car 505 rode on shared trucks with the 9900 and trailing 570 cars. The interior of the 505 contained a large Baggage and Express compartment at the forward end of the car followed by a Buffet and 20-revenue seat Coach compartment. The third articulated car number 570 seated 40 in the forward half of the car with the cars center entrance next followed by a 12 seat Smoking Lounge Observation. The beautiful boat tail Observation was built with windows wrapping around the end for viewing the passing countryside, unlike the Union Pacific streamliner with its windowless rear occupied by the trains Buffet.
On the 26th of May 1934 the sleek stainless steel speedster set a dawn to dusk record between Denver and Chicago to open the Century of Progress Exposition in Chicago for its first year, averaging 77.6 mph for the 1,015 miles completed in 13 hours 5 minutes. The entire nation was able to follow the progress of the ZEPHYR on this momentous day live as it happened as a Radio Station had set up a transmitter in the Baggage Room shared with a Donkey named ZEPHYR while broadcasting live to the country. The broadcasts from the speeding train brought people to trackside by the hundreds to catch a glimpse of the speeding silvery flash as it passed. The 9900 ZEPHYR spent the summer at the Chicago Exposition close to the M-10000 also on display for the summer. The two trains were within site of one another at the fair.
After the summer was over the 9900 ZEPHYR became the star of a Hollywood Motion Picture named the SILVER STREAK the name it carried in the movie.
On November 11, 1934 the Burlington ZEPHYR again stole the thunder from rival Union Pacific’s M-10000 when the 9900 ZEPHYR train set entered service between Lincoln –Omaha – Kansas City round trip daily, becoming the first diesel powered streamlined train to enter scheduled service in the world. The 9900 ZEPHYR train set departed Lincoln at 7:30 AM and arrived in Omaha at 8:25 AM; it then departed Omaha at 9:00 AM and arrived in Kansas City at 1:00 PM. The 190-mile trip between Omaha and Kansas City was operated in 240 minutes with six stops. The return trip began with a 2:30 PM departure from Kansas City with a 6:30 PM arrival in Omaha, after a ½ hour pause the 9900 ZEPHYR departed Omaha at 7:00 PM and arrived in Lincoln at 7:55 PM. It is interesting to note that after the M-10000 entered service January 31, 1935 that America’s first two successful streamlined trains operated with Kansas City as one of their terminal cities. In fact the two trains would have been in Kansas City at the same time daily within sight of each other. A fourth articulated car was added to the train in 1936 and the 9900 ZEPHYR spent most of its operational career with this extra articulated car a coach in its consist. The extra car was withdrawn for the period May 31, 1936 to November 7, 1936 when the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR and the 9903 MARK TWAIN ZEPHYR were assigned to service as the ADVANCE DENVER ZEPHYRS on a fast 16-hour schedule overnight between Chicago and Denver in each direction. When the new DENVER ZEPHYRS entered service on November 18, 1936 the ADVANCE DENVER ZEPHYRS were returned to their original assignments. The 9900 ZEPHYR became the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR after a couple of years in service.
In 1938 the CB&Q transferred the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR to the St. Louis – Kansas City route as the OZARK STATE ZEPHYR operating round trip daily between Missouri’s two largest cities.
In 1942 the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR was transferred to Nebraska where it was assigned to a Lincoln – McCook daily round trip where it remained until 1949.
In 1949 the CB&Q subsidiary Colorado & Southern leased the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR for one year and assigned it to daily Denver – Cheyenne round trip daily service. On this route it served Boulder, Longmont, Loveland, Fort Collins and Cheyenne. While in this service the train was simply referred to as ZEPHYR service.
When the lease was not renewed the Burlington transferred the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR to service between Galesburg and Quincy, Illinois. It remained in this service until 1953 when it was transferred to St. Joseph, Missouri.
When the CB&Q KANSAS CITY ZEPHYR was inaugurated between Chicago and Kansas City on February 1, 1953 the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR was assigned to be the St. Joseph – Brookfield connecting service. The 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR would remain in this service until 1957 when it would begin operating its final scheduled service between St. Joseph and Lincoln round trip daily. Today its permanent home is the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago where it was retired to in 1960. Recently the train was returned to the museum after complete restoration and placed in a new display area in the museums new parking structure.

9900 Articulated Shovelnose 600 hp Diesel Power Unit with 30’ Railway Post Office Compartment and Storage Mail Compartment
505 Articulated Baggage Buffet 20 Revenue seat Coach
570 Articulated 40 Revenue seat Coach 12 seat Lounge Observation

B&M - MeC
6000
FLYING YANKEE
(April 1, 1935)
by Al

A nearly identical Shovelnose streamlined three car articulated train set to the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR was delivered by Budd for the joint ownership of the Boston & Maine – Maine Central for service as the FLYING YANKEE. The 6000 FLYING YANKEE was delivered to the owning Railroads in February 1935 and immediately went on a tour of on line cities of the two railroads. On April 1, 1935 the 6000 FLYING YANKEE entered scheduled service departing Portland at 8:30 AM with arrival in Boston at 10:20 AM. At Noon the 6000 FLYING YANKEE departed Boston arriving in Bangor at 4:45 PM. After a 15minute pause the train departed Bangor for the return to Boston with arrival scheduled for 10:05 PM. At 11:00 PM the 6000 FLYING YANKEE departed Boston and returned to Portland at 12:50 AM ready to begin the daily schedule over again after a 7 hour 40 minute layover.
The FLYING YANKEE was withdrawn from its original route in 1942 shortly after the outbreak of WW II. The train’s capacity was unable to meet the wartime demand for space.
The 6000 then became the MOUNTAINEER and operated for the duration of the war between Boston and Littleton by way of Crawford Notch. The next assignment for the 6000 was as the CHESHIRE between Boston and White River Junction, Vermont round trip daily.
The final scheduled assignment for the 6000 was as the MINUTEMAN round trip daily between Boston and Troy, New York. The original articulated train set was retired from service in 1957 and can be seen to this day on display at a museum in New England.
As this is written the train is being completely restored to its original as built condition, it is planned to operate the train for special occasions after the restoration.

6000 Articulated Shovelnose 600 hp Winton 201 A Diesel Power Unit with Baggage Compartment Buffet and 28 Revenue Coach seats
6000A Articulated 60 Revenue seat Coach
6000B Articulated 30 Revenue seat Coach 20 seat Lounge Observation

TTFN Al
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Posted by coalminer3 on Thursday, June 1, 2006 8:24 AM
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house; and $ for the jukebox.

Weather here continues to be hot and muggy (can’t wait for August!).

Pete – Good to hear from you.

Mike – Thanks for the pictures. The shots of the C&O train at Richmond brought back some memories. It was not uncommon for power to be swapped between the C&O and the B&O. Many of you probably remember that the public timetables from that era had a C&O/B&O header on them. The ORG entries continued to be separate for the two lines.

Rob – Thanks for the encore pieces

Al – Some more interesting information on cars. Most appreciated.

One of the multifarious (no, Boris, NOT nefarious) activities I engage in is training folks who are involved with accident investigation/report writing. The following is a wonderful example of the genre. I know I haven’t posted this one before. It’s not rail-related, but it does involve heavy equipment and fire trucks.

Accident Report – Snakes

A couple had a lot of potted plants, and during a cold spell, the wife brought some of them indoors to protect them from a possible freeze. A little grass snake that had been hiding in the plants slithered out and went under the living room sofa. The wife saw it and screamed. Her husband was taking a shower and he ran, naked, into the living room. The family dog cold nosed him on the rear while he was on hands and knees looking for the snake. He fainted. His wife thought he’d had a heart attack and called the ambulance. The attendants loaded the man onto a stretcher and started to carry him out. One of the EMTs saw the snake emerge from under the sofa and dropped the end of the stretcher; that’s how the man broke his leg.

The wife called on a neighbor man who volunteered to capture the snake. He decided the snake was gone after poking around under the sofa with a rolled up newspaper. Relieved, the lady sat down on the sofa. Her hand slid between the cushions where she felt the snake moving around. She fainted. The neighbor man tried to use CPR to revive her. The neighbor man’s wife, who had just returned home from a trip to the grocery store, saw her husband’s mouth on the woman’s mouth and slammed him on the back of his head with a bag of canned goods. The cans knocked him out and cut his head so bad that it needed stitches. The ambulance was called again. The noise woke the woman from her dead faint and when she saw her neighbor lying on the floor with his wife bending over him, she assumed he had been bitten by the snake. So she went to the kitchen, brought back a small bottle of whiskey and began to pour it down the man’s throat. By now the police had arrived. They saw an unconscious man, smelled whiskey, and thought it was a drunken fight. The women escaped arrest by telling them about the snake. The ambulance took away the neighbor and his sobbing wife.

The snake again crawled out from under the sofa. One of the cops drew his gun and fired at the snake. He missed the snake and hit the leg of the end table that was on one side of the sofa. The table fell over and the lamp on it shattered, and as the bulb broke, it started a fire in the drapes. The other cop, trying to beat out the flames, fell through the window out into the yard on top of the family dog, who jumped up and ran out into the street in front of an oncoming car. The car swerved to avoid the dog, smashed into the parked police cruiser and set it on fire.

Meanwhile the flames from the burning drapes had spread and the entire house was blazing. Neighbors had called the fire department. The fire truck began raising its ladder when it was halfway down the street. The ladder tore out overhead wires, disconnecting electric and phone service in a ten-square block area.

Time passed; both men were discharged from the hospital. The house was rebuilt. The police got a new cruiser, and all was right with the world. About a year later the original couple was watching TV and the weatherman announced a cold snap for that night. The husband asked the wife if she thought they should bring in the plants for the night – she shot him!

Work safe
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 10:45 AM
Good morning gents, what can I say still hot and muggy here today a 4th in a row at 90+ with the humidity to go along with it. [tdn] can't even work in the layout room , backyard or shed all of the above have taken on a sauna like persona.

Ted Good to see you in again this morning , hard to believe that hurricane season is upon you once again. I've noticed that the history network and the like are already running the what if and it could happen again worse case scenario cat 5 storms hitting an unprotected New york City and upper Atlantic Coastal area's. I suppose that it makes good TV and it "could" happen, by why cause a big flap. I'm sure that if a large storm was headed for the "breadbasket" like that that there wiould be a decent amount of warning ( I know there were warning for n'orlins as well ). Anyway glad to hear that you've gotten yourself previsioned ( still think that you should move somewhere colder ) [:D][swg] You would have the same summer weather and allot less tourists to worry about ,my neighbour rents his lower leavel out quite a nice 2bdrm.
Sounds like quite a haul of material, one can always use such books as research and then write up your own treatice for here. Usually easier to get copyright permission for that as long as you list them as the soarce.hopefully your friend gets some good photo's of his UK sojourne , sounds like a wonderfull little place to visit. [tup]

CM3 Wow that's the most entertaining accident report that I think I've ever read.Monty Python couldn't have come up with a better chain of events to make a movie around. And all over a non-poisonous snake to boot, that was likely more frightened than the human's. You never did say did the poor little snake survive ?I'm never against a bit o humour injected in our ddaily routine here, this post is definatly going in the archieves as a keeper fer sure fer sure [tup] Cindy get the man an extra big riound of whatever he wishes ( once it's late enough to hti the heavier stuff )


Al thanks for the input on the original streamlineres. Great to see the story and specs of the original's like that.When you think of the times, they were quite the thing techknowlogywise.And as such they were the forrunner of all the E units and name passenger trains that came after, the true golden age of passenger train service !


Since today is fish and chip night I've had the Girls ( H&H ) whip up ( they do like their whips don't they ) a fine spread of seafood for our eating pleasure. Beer battered Cod, Haddock, and Halibut, Atlantic Lobster flown in from NS via the Zepplin, a wonderfull crab salad and crabcakes, and of coarse their personal piece e la resistance a sauerkraut and sauage stuffed fillet of shark ( not for the faint of heart or cholestorol ) Available all day long, or until we run out, or Mentor EMT tells us to shut it down [:O][xx(]


Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 11:06 AM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

Another classic steam to tide us over on this warm early afternoon,this one was not dredged up from too far back only page326.

Rob


CLASSIC STEAM # 24 THE CENTRAL ONTARIO RAILWAY

The COR Into The Hills of Gold

The Central Ontario Railway was a 117 mile run that stretched from Trenton Ontario North to Maynooth and Lake St Peter. It was a road that served the many minning towns and villiages of the area.

Begun in 1873, the line was ultimatly intended to Link with the legondary Booth railway the Ottawa Arnprior and Parry sound Ry ( classic steam # 22 ) near Whitney Ontario.While the line made it through the sheild rock and swamp 3 miles shy of Booth's road is where it ended at Wallace on Lake St Peter. The actuial terminus as far as passengers went was at Maynooth just to the south. Here the railway had it's yards,turntables, and it's largest station.

The stroy starts in Prince Edward County, with the completion of a line between Picton( although the Port of Long Point was the original target ) and Trenton jct, the roads link with the Grand Trunk just north of the town of Trenton itself. ( Trenton is on the Bay of Quinte )However the gold rush north of Trenton and Belleville caught the eyes of the railroads builders and in 1866 they were determined to built to these new found gold fields before anyone else, chiefly their main rivals the builders of the Grand Junction Railroad who were hurrying to build a line from Belleville northwest to Peterborough, this openned in 1879. A branch led north from Peterborough from Madoc Jct to the ill-fated goldfields at Eldorado Ontario. Tyhe gold was not as plentifull as hoped but other more mundane minerals convinced the builders of the COR to continue north : iron ore.

In 1882 the construction of the new lines to the iron ore producing areas began. The first destination was Coe Hill, centre of the earliest of these iron discoveries. later prospectors found more in the hills around Bancroft, the line reached Bancroft in 1900.In 1909 Mackenzie and Mann's Canadian Northern laid it's Ottawa to Toronto mainline through Trenton , and added the branches and mainline of the COR to their ever expanding empire. The COR replaced their wooden depot at trenton with a huge three story and extended the north end of the line through to Maynooth where another larger station was built. It met the Irondale Bancroft and Ottawa ( IBO ) at Bird's Creek just north of Bancroft completing the web of branches that were the COR.All along the route small brancjes radiated like veins out to all of the mining camps in the area. Most were open pit type mines as the ore was close to the surface.

Gradually as the various mines depleted the branches were closed down. The lines in Cordova closed in 1941, to Bessemer and Lake st Peter in 1965 and to Coe Hill in 1966.CNR tried of running the short lines that were left as they felt them to be unproffitable even though several small and large paper plants and other industries were located on them. The Paper plants at Glenn Ross and Glenn Millar particularly of note. The CNR steadily chopped back the COR until all of the liones north of Marmora were gone by 1982. By 1986 the link between Trenton and Marmora was gone as well.


Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 12:22 PM
Well i'm going against the policy of no new info today as it's been a while since a new classic juice appeared, so her's one that's close to home for me.

CLASSIC JUICE # 28 THE BRANTFORD STREET RAILWAY ?MUNICIPLE RAILWAY


The Brantford Street Railway was incorporated bu local intrests in 1879 nothing was started till March of 1886 when the franchise ws sold to C.H. Flack of Cornwall Ontario. He organized a new comapny under the old name and began construction on July 7th of 1886. The work proceeded rapidly so that the openning cerimonies could be held two months later on Sept 9th. Free rides were available for all,and though the cars derailed frequently and easily they were light horse cars and were easily manhandled back onto the tracks.

The stables and Carsheds were at Gilikson& Oxford streets ( now Colbourne West )and lines were laid out on three routes. To the GTR station ran along Calrence and Murray streets.Clarence street which extended down to Park Ave to the Mainline GTR station( today's VIA station )on Market Street this line via King,Darling, Richmond and Brant Ave's and then to the blind school on Brant Ave ( schooll's still there today ).

The original gauge was 3'6" running on 5 miles of flat iron horserail. service was initailly served by three open and four closed cars. the tracks were so poorly built that one newspaper article from 1887 stated that " yesterday not one of the streetcars left the track " The reason for the poor track performance was that the paving materials were too soft, and the horses pulling the cars gradually wore through a deep trough midway between the rails causing the track to roll over and derail the cars.

EAECTRIFICATION

Late in 1892 a second new company was organized,still keeping the same name. It ordered six new electric cars from Patterson & Corbin of St Catharines On, and rebuilt the tracks to standard guage. In the rebuilding, the circuitous William Strret roye was abandonned and replaced by a line that ran straight out Brant Ave.this was to become the companies most important and travelled route, and was refered to as the "mainline" throughout the rest of the companies existance. Electric operation began on March 31 1893. The VP of the comapny was Samual Insull ( who was also the second VP of Edison Electric )Thsi made the BSR a very early piece of the Insull utilities company.

A new carhous and power station were built on Colbourne street near the GTR's Tillsonburg branch line crossing. ( This was usually refered to as the Great Western station )two large loop lines were built. The first ( 1893 )was the east ward loop which ran on Park Ave,Arthur,Brock ( my street ), Nelson,and Alfred streets to Colbourne.In 1909 the track on Park Ave was replaced by a new line on Alfred St.. In the following year (1894 ) a the second loop line was completed from the main GTR station on Market St ( VIA station today )via West St,Duke,Palace St and to the Brant Ave mainline. This line was found to be too ambitious and was removed later that year so that by october 1894 the Market Street line was once again a stubb ended line to feed the GTR station.Also in 1894 the Eagle Place line was built VIA Market Street S, and Cayuga and Erie Ave .

In 1895 a 42 acre traack called Mowhawk Park was leased just to the east of the city and the street railway extended it's line into the Park. By this time the compamy wass operating 8 and a half miles of trackage all the new construstion being of 60lbs rail with some of the previuous 30lbs horse rail still in use in the sheds and yards.

The company was unable to keep up with the $125,000 mortgage from Canadian General Electric and the mortgage was foreclosed in 1897. CGE became the owner of the line and installed it's president Frederick Nicholls as the president iof the BSR, the debt was always a sore point of difficulty for the company until finally paid off by the city in 1936.

In 1900 a shadowy company called the Von Echa comapny owned by dr S Ritter Eckes a mining concern from West Virginia became interested in Ontario Electric Lines.He was a contractor originally working on a london to Goderich interurban line and he stepped in a took a 120;000 dollar bond payment to operate the BSR which he merged with his Port Dover, Brantford,Berlin & Goderich RY an interurban company that he controlled but whose only asset ws the charter to build it ! This amalgamated company became known as the Grand Valley Rrailway in 1907 and he obtained a 50 year franchise from the city of Brantford to operate the BSR. This franchise dated 1902 exempted the company (Ickes)from any municiple payments for the first 25 years !.His first act was a minor track extension made to the Brant Ave line from Palmerston St to St paul street he also extended the Brant Ave line into the town of Paris in essence a small interurban district.

In 1905 Ickes disapeared defaulted in all his loans.The ceditors could not find him and it was reported that he had died in Seattle inapril of 1906. Leaving behind a tangle of deals and bills and defaulted creditors.owberships cahnged frequently between 1905- and 1912. two blocks of the Oxford street trackage were abandonned in 1908 as a cost sving measure.The Vernor family finally took control in 1909 and carried out some physical plant and equipment upgrades. 80lbs rail new closed cars from Preston car and Coach and a new line to Holmdale built in 1912. By 1912 the interurban line was in such disrepair that it was abandonned ( improper bridges etc ).In may of 1913 the railroad was again in recievership and put up for sale. The higher of the two bids for it came from the Lake Erie and Northern RY the City was the other bidder and even thouhgbthey offered less money the city assumed control of the BSR in 1914.The line was purcjhased for 253,000 dollars and they assumed the mortgae held by the CGE corp.


The city improvemnets included the rebuilding of all trackage to 90lbs rail, new single truck cars from Preston, snowsweepers from Maguire Cummings and a host of electrical and overhead upgrades.The rails were restored to the Palmerston,St paul and Brant ave loop and in Nov of 1914 Mohawk park was officially purchased by the city. Even the Paris Interurban run was rebuilt and reopenned the lorne bridge was replaced and service was finally at it's promised every ten minutes status.The new company was now officially remaned the Brantford Municiple Railway. All the former Grand Valley Ry trackage was brouhg tunder the BMR's control and in 1916 the crossings on Morell St with teh LE&N were finished and the proper connections were now made with the large interurban at it's Morel st terminal.The Terrace hill and holmdakle lines were connected as a large belt line in 1919 and some additional DT cars were aquired for this newly joined service.By 1924 it was found that even with the improvements and greatly increased ridership that the comapny was still losing money eg (1916-1,420,000 riders ,1919 -2,150,000 riders )All from a city of just under 30,000 ! City planers urged that the Paris interurban line be abandonned for good and tha Mohawk park service only occur on Holiday's and weekends.They instead increased fares on the Paris line and ran it till 1937 when it fianlly was abandonned.The Mohawk park and eagle Place routes were also abanndoned in 1937 just after the city paid off the CGE loan.In 1932 a Mohawk bus company was started to operated the abandonned street railway districts and in 1935 the comapny merged the opublic utility company wiht the BMR.In janurary of 1940 the last lines on terrace hill and Brant Ave were shut down and Brantford transit began all bus service in the city.The carhouse was used by the city as a bus barn until it was removed abd replaced in 1971.

Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 3:18 PM
Good afternoon again gents. cindy I think a large round of keith's is required this afternoon,looks as though the CanAm track gang is done for the day. I notice from the fact that Boris is hiding that he must have annoyed H&H somehow. Mind-you the smells of the fish fry comming from the kitchen more than make up for it.

Here's a couple photo's to go along with classic juice # 28



The BSR/BMR car barn's as seen in the mid 1930's



Single truck preston car and Coach car making it's way along Terrace Hill summer 1938



Another of the Preston cars on Brant Ave at st Paul street in 1940



One of the DT cars from the Paris interurban route parked at the Brantford carbarn 1935

enjoy Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 3:28 PM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

As promised yesterday here's part 2 of the cataract traction for you all to read over again.remeber put your orders in for the fish fry tonight early. Those arriving late will be stuck with the atrocious Shark platter which Boris and Tex slaved over [:O][tdn][xx(].

A reminder to all, try to dig out past posts from the group for the next six or seven days to help keep things moving along Also remember birthday wishes only for our shipmate John for his natal fay on the third,no bash as he's somewher in the South Pacific, but warm thoughts 'n' wishes are always welcome . [tup][8D]

Rob


CLASSIC JUICE # 25 HAMILTON'S RADIAL's PT 2

This is the next part covering the other two radial or interurban lines that fell under the auspices of the Cataract Traction Co. I will do a part three aat a later date covering the HSR or Hamilton Street Railway, the city streetcar system thast was part of this conglomeration. Interestingly enough the HSR is still called the HSR today right down to the logo's on their all diesel bus transportation fleet of today.

Hamilton Radial Electric Railway : Hamilton to Oakville

This railway was the brainchild of John Patterson, his vision in 1893 was to build a radial electric network of 360km's (227 miles )linking Hamilton,Toronto,Niagara Falls,and even Woodstock and London.The first rails were laid in 1893 starting at James St in Hamilton to Hamilton Beach ( now Stelco on Burlington Bay ). In 1895, when the hoped for partner CPR pulled out of the plan, the ambitious scheme was cut back a tad,okay more than a tad. By 1898 it was only built as far as Burlington,and in 1905 to Oakville.

From Hamilton the route went along James street, then Gore and Wilson (hwy 2 ) and Sherman St.Where it then took a private ROW which paralled Sherman street. It then paralleled Barton St to Hamilton Beach.From there it ran alongside the GT entering Burlington at Maple St. In Burlington it ran along Elgin,James, and New St to Oakville where New St becomes Rebecca St and Randell Rd. This area is now called Lakeshore Road old hwy 2 and runs right into Lakeshore Ave in Toronto , all along the shore of Lake Ontario,you can drive this ROW today .

Even in the 1920's some of the plans to expand this line continued. In an era when streetcars were rapdily being replaced by busses,the HRE still envisioned a line extending from oakville to Port Credit and on into Toronto. Track was indeed laid along side the GT/CNR.The scheme finally collapsed in 1925,with the HRE cut back from Oakville to Port Nelson.

The HRE's main facilities included a 17 stall carbarn in Burlington and a steam power plant on Burlington Beach.Separate wood stations were built on Hamilton Beach,in Oakville,and in Burlington.The latter was built in 1927 and served as a hydro office and store after the line quit in 1931.The Oakvill station still surves today as a restuarant, the Beach station survived till 1980 when it was torn down for condos, the powerhouse was used for the city until 1947 when it was torn down. The carbarns servived as a busbarn in Burlington until 1962.

Oddly enough this line ws rebuilt and moved slightly in land in the late 60's and continues on as Go transits busy lakeshore line, running commuter trains 7 days a week between Hamilton and Toronto Union Station.

The Brantford and Hamilton RY : Hamilton to Brantford

Of all of the radial lines from Hamilton,thios one most resembled a regular railway.It ran accross country and for most of it's route travelled on a private ROW.First proposed in 1896 , it ws not started or open till 10 years later.It's opem route allowed for higher rates of speed and larger more comfortable cars.

It's route took it from the terminal station in downtown Hamilton and west on Main st to Hess, where it headed south to Aberdeen. From Queen and Aberdeen it started on its private ROW and began to climbing the limestone face of the escarpment ( known locally as Hamilton Mountain ).Half way up the mountain was Sanitorium Station ( mental hospital there tpdays McMaster Hospital ), past this station it beagn to climb the cliff face. Today this is the route of HWY 403. Views of todays drivers were once enjoyed by the passengers of highspeed electric streetcars.The view was of feilds and forests not todays condo's and malls.[tdn]

Along the line stations were at ,Jame's St ( UPPER )Alberton,Summit,Langford,Cainsville,amd Mowhawk Park.The line terminated at the Bi-level station built by the Lake Erie and Northern in 1915 in downtown Brantford . ( Today;s Brantford Casino occupies this spot ) In 1925 the line almalgamated with the HRE and ran through trains from Burlington to Brantford.

After the auto age arrived in the early 20'sthe line began to operate at a loss. Following the start up of throuhg bus servicce the ridership on the electric cars declined by half.In 1930 the HEPC bought out all the Hamilton Radials and instituited system wide bus runs. By 1931 service was ended on the HBG.

After the shutdown some of the cars were aquired by canda Crused stone of Dundas and were used till the electric portion of Canada Stone ended in 1971. None were preserved. The HGB ROW was torn up by 1935.All station were demolised at the same time ecept for Brantfords LE&N station which the Lake Erie and Northern continued to use till it ended service in 1955. Then it too waqs torn down. The sight remained dormant till the late 80's when Brantford started to build a telephone museum on site which never took off , it then became the Brantford Charity casino which still operates today.

For more Hamilton and Brantford info see the original Classic Juice on it #4 on page 134.

Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 3:49 PM
Good afternoon again gents. Here's one more set of pictures of the BSM / BSR, all these shots have come from the OERHA collection most taken by Al Patterson, our museum's unofficial / official photographer.



BSR car Moving Down murray street on the east Ward Loop line passing under the GTR/CNR overpass. The brige is still in use today by the CN as it helps carry their heavy Toronto Windsor mainline above the city streets of Brantford.



A shot of the Lake Erie and Northern's station on Market Street, taken from the BSR mainline.

Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 4:21 PM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

An encore from one of our legion of the lost P
Something that will go along nicly with the dinning car service H&H want to establish out of the mentor villiages Union Station.

Rob[;)]


Originally posted by ftwNSengineer
yo Tom, another Jack and coke. By the way I really like the new menu cards.
P

[img.nr] http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c218/ftwnsengineer/scan0007.jpg [/img.nr]

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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 4:32 PM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! EBCORE ! ENCORE !

Another encore on today's unofficial theme or electric railroading in South Western Ontario. The Lake Erie and Northren was one of the 1500v heavy interurbans of CPR ownership, whick joined communities along the Grand River and the Shores of Lake Erie.

Rob

Tomorrow is a non day off for me so Iwill not be around to tend the bar as much as today. so if the few can stick to their timeslots or even pop in a couple of times during the day, even pull up something that interests you from the back pages to keep us staedy on coarse. it would be appreciated. Thanks. Rob


CLASSIC JUICE #18 THE LAKE ERIE & NORTHERN

The LE&N was a late commer as far as electric lines in Ontario go. It was concieved in 1910 to run from Galt to Port Dover, in an attenmpt by the CPR to develope a ferry connection to cross Lake Erie. It's route took it through Galt and along the East bank og the Grand River to Paris , where it passed under the GT. It then proceeded south through Brantford to Waterford,where it crossed the TH&B and the Canda Southern ( NYC) on a high level bridge. From here it angled to the southeasterly to Simcoe amd then to Port Dover on Lake Erie where it originallu used the GT station until permission to do this was withdrawn.

LE&N was a 1500v line using poles not pans as the L&PS did. They used a brick CPR plan station at Mount Pleasant and in Paris, and for Port Dover they used an international plane station similar to the GRR's at Galt. The LE&N shared the GRR's Galt station ( passenger could transfer easily line to line as both were CPR properties ). At Glen Morris they used an old stone house ( still there today ) while in Brantford they used an impressive two level station,with street entraanc above for cars ans the tracks below ( Market street on the Grand river now a parking garage for the Casino )This station was shared with the Brantford and Hamilton Radial railway ( classic juice #4 ) Which was a chore as the B&H ws a 600v line so only one company could have their cars in the station at a time,the overhead in the station could be switched powerwise depending on who was using it at the time. Besides 14 station stops the LE&N also served 35 flag stops along their route. ( small lean to shelters only )

Unlike the hourly service used by the GRR, the LE&N ran every two hours. In 1950 CPR applied for discontinuance of passenger service buit were refused.When this happened they (CPR) altered the timetable and built in inconvienient connections with the GRR and TH&B etc. The passemger counts then of coarse declined imediatly and abandonment was granted in 1955.

According to CPR practice most stations and flag stops were removed only the Mount pleasant and Port Dover stations survive.After passenger servive was discontinued electric freight operations did continue for a time. The line between simcoe and Port Dover was abandoned in 1962,the line between Branyford and Waterford in 1965 ( bcame a TH&B line then washed out in the 70's ) The sections between Galt and Brantford and Waterford and Simcoe lasted until the 1990's when they were finally abandioned. The freight service was deisilized after 1961and all overhead was taken down.

You can see most of the ROW from Brantford to Galt and Paris along HWY 24.

Unlike the GRR 90% of the LE&N's roling stock was wood interurbans passenger and combine cars. Like the GRR all were mu capable and they ran 32 to six car trains depending on the passenger levels. Only combine car 797 survives today ( Preston Car and Coach built in 1917 ) it is currently under restoration at our museum.

Enjoy Rob
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Posted by West Coast S on Thursday, June 1, 2006 6:50 PM
Afternoon all, haven't seen much of Tom of late , A howdy to our missing leader as well.

I've got the rounds covered for the after hours crowd..

Trolleyboy, very interesting , those Canadian operations were easily the equal of such Interurban giants as the South Shore or Sacramento Northern, seem very familar, what great days those must have been..

Theoredorebear, Appreciate the belated greetings, i've missed your laid back approach to society and life in general, can't take things too seriously now can we.. Good to see you a regular once more.

What a couple of days i've had, non stop work since the surprise vist from the General, who by the way, failed me on my department inspection, the only failure ever of a department under my charge, the cause is to involved to dwell on. After that exchange, he had the fortitude to inquire if I was available for 11-15 hour shifts, six days a week for the foreseeable future as part of the transition team tasked with relocating our operations to a new building !!....... They say you can't get blood out of a stone, apparently Air Force generals don't learn that in advance education. Enough depressing news:

Ok, just to get the juices flowing an not to stray too far from the Interurban theme of today.

Trans Bay ferry operations involving the Sacramento Northern to Oakland, Ca.

Let it be known that SN never owned a Trans Bay ferry, SN contracted with the Key System to provide that service until the end of passenger operations in 1941. Passengers embarking at San francisco utilized the Ferry Building, located at the foot of Market Street, once there one would board one of three Key System boats, YUBA BUENA, MENLO PARK, TAMAPILAS, the key roster peaked in the 1920's, with the onset of the depression and compleation of the Bay Bridge only the YUBA BUENA remained with the other two ferries sold to Government service for use in the Bay Area where they remained until scrapped after World War two.

Unlike their SP cousins, who wore white Key System Orange and maroon colors adorned the BUENA. MJB Coffee of a blend brewed only for the Key System was served in bone china cups on linen tablecloths with Sterling Silver utensils on the Restaurant deck which was furnished with the finest of hard woods and velvet plushes and stained glass windows commisioned from local artist.

It wasn't just the coffee, a secret recipe for Corned Beef Hash and Doughnuts are what is best remembered, during the hayday of ferry operations, over twenty five thousand pounds of coffee was served yearly, over ten thousand pounds of hash was served in the same period and over one hundred thousands doughnuts consumed by hungry commuters.

After a forty five minute crossing, passengers disembarked at the Mole, SN leased six tracks from the Key System, chronic lack of resources prevented SN from building their own terminal, when Key abandoned the Mole for trackage laid on the bottom deck of the Bay Bridge, SN followed suit.

Operating on the Key Systems via trackage rights to 40th and shaftner ave from the Mole , required SN equiptment to comply with Key requirements. Tripper arms were installed to comply with the ABS signals installed to govern the more then nine hundred movements this four mile route saw every day, they were a simple divice that did prove their worth in preventing several accidents. If a motorman over ran a stop signal, a arm attached to the overhead pole support , would engage the tripper arm and drop the Pantagraph while activitng the emergency brakes and setting all aspects to red.

Upon arrival to home rails, the tripper arms were deactivated and locked in place , they were used no where else on the system and jumper cables hung between each car
( Key also required each car to collect power) Voltage was switched from the Key's 600V to 1400V for the steep grades out of Rockland, extra air compressors were also acitvated and precurser to the Dynamic Brake was also put on line, later SN installed automatic voltage converters and compressors/ Dynamic converters on some of the fleet to improve schedules and reduce maintaince , the timetable permitted four and a half minutes to complete all of the above!
The above should keep most of you busy for awhile, this is just a sample of what will be contained in my complete SN review.


Keep well, until we meet again

Dave
SP the way it was in S scale
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Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, June 1, 2006 11:07 PM
Hi everyone, a round for the house and a triple-A toast to Tom in Absolut Alaskan Abstentia

Ted, thanks for checking out the urls. Without a memory of most railroads, I need to see pictures.

Al, according to a letter my father wrote in 1972, "...B&M and CV entered a joint order for the second Budd Streamliner, in 1933, just after the CB&Q Pioneer Zephyr came out. This new streamliner was designed for the Boston-Montreal run -- 3 cars, with RPO, buffet, and parlorcar. -- called the Flying Yankee."
B&M and CV soon had another in a long series of unpleasant incidents, and CV cancelled its half of the order. So B&M's choice was to make other arrangements for the new Budd train.

CM3, thanks for the entertaining ride on your classic train of thought over the linear track through the valley of unintended consequences, right down to its derailment, caused by a big bang. That story ought to have been told to the barbershop customers of Kornfield County in the voice of Archie Campbell. I would hold all parties blameless, except the developer who leveled acres of woodland to build the mall for the retailer to sell plants that cannot thrive outdoors.

Dave, no wonder the Key System is so well remembered, who could forget a daily diet of corned beef hash and doughnuts? Hash is meat and potatoes, so add good coffee and it sounds like a winner to me.

Rob, Jersey milk ad on the trolley car reminds me that coffee is not the only beverage suitable for washing down doughnuts. I can't digest any more new info right now, but I'll keep your latest traction treatments on the reading list.

Penn Station tracks, Manhattan, PRR GG1 & NH EP-5
http://knorek.com/RR/Found/PRR/PennStation1.jpg
http://knorek.com/RR/Found/PRR/PennStation2.jpg
http://knorek.com/RR/Found/PRR/PennStation3.jpg
Mike
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Posted by passengerfan on Friday, June 2, 2006 7:12 AM
Good Morning Gang and time for a quick coffee and crumpet from the Mentor Village Bakery.

Mike Thanks for that additional information on the Flying Yankee.

Will put a couple other early strreamliners out their this AM.

CB&Q
TWIN ZEPHYRS
(April 21, 1935)
437 miles
By Al

The CB&Q received a nearly identical pair of streamlined three car articulated ZEPHYRS to the original 9900 ZEPHYR in April 1935. The TWIN ZEPHYRS as they were christened entered scheduled service April 21, 1935 between Minneapolis – St. Paul and Chicago daily in each direction. The one three car articulated streamliner carried the numbers 9901 – 550 -571 on it’s three cars and the other train set carried the numbers 9902 – 101 – 102. These three car articulated train sets featured a coach capacity for 64 and Parlor car capacity of 24. These two train sets carried no mail compartment such as that found on the 9900 ZEPHYR. The original schedule for the 431 miles between Chicago and St. Paul called for a 390-minute schedule for an average speed of 66.3 mph. The schedule between Chicago and Minneapolis called for departure from Chicago at 2:00 PM with St. Paul arrival at 8:30 PM and Minneapolis arrival at 9:00 PM. Eastbound the schedule departed from Minneapolis at 12:01 PM, 12:30 PM departure from St. Paul and arrival in Chicago scheduled for 7:00 PM.
On June 2, 1935 the 9901 and 9902 TWIN ZEPHYRS began operating a daily round trip each between the Twin Cities and Windy City. This meant the two articulated train sets were operating 862 miles daily in thirteen hours of actual scheduled operation.
The original TWIN ZEPHYR 3 car train sets were replaced by new 6 car articulated TWIN ZEPHYRS on the Minneapolis – Chicago route on December 18, 1936.
The 9901 ZEPHYR and its train were transferred to Texas at that time and entered service between Fort Worth and Houston round trip daily as the SAM HOUSTON ZEPHYR. In December 1944 the 9901 SAM HOUSTON ZEPHYR struck a loaded gasoline tanker at a grade crossing in Dacus, Texas and was consumed by the fire.
The 9902 ZEPHYR and its articulated train set were transferred to St. Louis where it was assigned to operate as the OZARK STATE ZEPHYR beginning in December 1936.
In 1938 the 9902 ZEPHYR train set was transferred to Rock Island ownership and named the TEXAS ROCKET. After the 9901 ZEPHYR was destroyed by fire in 1944 the 9902 was transferred back to the CB&Q as payment for the 9901 ZEPHYR train set that was on lease to the Rock Island at the time.
In 1945 the CB&Q transferred the 9902 ZEPHYR to service between Chicago and Ottumwa, Iowa using the name 9902 ZEPHYR.
In 1947 the 9902 ZEPHYR was assigned to its final route between once again as the 9902 ZEPHYR.
Finally in 1954 the 9902 ZEPHYR was retired.

9901 Articulated Shovelnose 600 hp Diesel Cab Unit with Baggage and Kitchen Annex
550 Articulated Buffet 4 seat Lunch Counter 40 Revenue seat Coach
571 Articulated 24 Revenue seat Coach 14 Revenue seat Parlor Lounge Observation

9902 Articulated Shovelnose 600 hp Diesel Cab Unit with Baggage and Kitchen Annex
101 Articulated Buffet 4 seat Lunch Counter 40 Revenue seat Coach
102 Articulated 24 Revenue seat Coach 24 Revenue seat Parlor Lounge Observation

CMStP&P
HIAWATHAS
(May 29, 1935)
421 miles
By Al

On May 29, 1935 the Milwaukee Road streamlined steam powered HIAWATHA train sets entered service daily between Chicago – Milwaukee and St. Paul – Minneapolis daily. For this service the Milwaukee Road received a pair of streamlined 4-4-2 Atlantic’s numbered 1 and 2 with 84” drivers capable of sustained speeds around the century mark.
The Milwaukee Road Shops built the two six car consists pulled by the matching steam power. The first car in each train set was a 48 seat TIP TOP TAP Lounge Café car for food and Beverage service number 5251 assigned to one consist and 5252 assigned to the other consist. These cars were trailed by three 48 Revenue seat Coaches part of a group of 41 numbered 4400 – 4440 constructed at the same time. The last two cars in each train set were named Parlor cars. The first was a 22 revenue seat parlor named ISHKOODAH or MINNEWA. The second parlor in each train set seated 21 in revenue seating and an additional three non revenue seats were located in the Lounge area of the Beavertail Observation end these two cars were named WENONAH and NOKOMIS. Within months of the new trains entering service they were operating with nine cars and the handsome streamlined Atlantic’s had little trouble maintaining the fast 6½-hour schedule.

1 ALCO Streamlined 4-4-2 Atlantic Locomotive and Tender

5251 24 seat TIP TOP TAP Tavern Lounge 24 seat Café Car

4400 series 48 Revenue seat Coach

4400 series 48 Revenue seat Coach

4400 series 48 Revenue seat Coach

ISHKOODAH 22 Revenue seat Parlor Car

WENONAH 21 Revenue seat Parlor 3 seat Parlor Lounge Beavertail Observation

CONSIST TWO

2 ALCO Streamlined 4-4-2 Atlantic Locomotive and Tender

5252 24 seat TIP TOP TAP Tavern Lounge 24 seat Café Car

4400 series 48 Revenue seat Coach

4400 series 48 Revenue seat Coach

4400 series 48 Revenue seat Coach

MINNEWAWA 22 Revenue seat Parlor Car

NOKOMIS 21 Revenue seat Parlor with 3 seat Parlor Lounge Beavertail Observation

NYNH&H
COMET
(June 5, 1935)
44 miles each way
220 miles total daily
By Al

Another manufacturer more noted for tires and Airships was the Goodyear – Zeppelin Company who constructed an Aluminum skinned tubular steel framed three car articulated lightweight bi-directional articulated diesel powered streamlined train. This train named the COMET was built for the New York, New Haven, and Hartford Railroad. The COMET was painted in a striking Blue and White paint scheme, the only New Haven equipment ever painted in this manner. The three car articulated train set was purchased with a cab at each end so it would be unnecessary to turn the train at terminals. The COMET with revenue seating for 160 passengers entered service June 5, 1935 between Providence, Rhode Island and Boston, Massachusetts a distance of 44 miles and was scheduled to operate five round trips daily in 44 minutes each direction. The three car articulated train was powered by a pair of Westinghouse 400 hp diesels one located in each of the trains two cab units. The two Cab units were numbered 9200 and 9202 with the center car carrying the number 9201.
The COMET operated on the same route from its delivery until the middle 1950’s when it was retired and scrapped.

9200 Articulated Shovelnose 400 hp Cab 48 Revenue seat Coach Unit
9201 Articulated 64 Revenue seat Coach
9202 Articulated Shovelnose 400 hp Cab 48 Revenue seat Coach Unit

TTFN Al
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Posted by coalminer3 on Friday, June 2, 2006 8:41 AM
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

Some fun material posted this a.m.

Mike - The Flying Yankee is very much with us and being restored to operating condition. The following website has a lot of historical information and pictures.
http://www.nashuacitystation.com/bostonmaine.php?content=flyingyankee

The picture(s) at Penn Station again brought back a lot of memories. Check out the LIRR mu cars. There was always a lot to see at Penn Station; inside and out.

Rob – Thanks for the encore material and pictures.

Dave – Been there done that! Your comments reminded me of some encounters over the years with our IGs.

Al – Thanks for material on the Comet. A lot of folks think that the Comet stayed on the Boston-Providence portion of the Shore Line the whole time. The Comet ran in Boston-Providence service roughly from 1935-1948. Then it was, to paraphrase Yogi, “So popular, that it was too successful.” The fixed consist could not handle the ridership so the New Haven moved it over to the former Old Colony Line out of Boston.
Herewith an encore from 2005 re the Comet

Now as for the Comet.

As most visitors to this fine establishment know, my New Haven roots go very deep; so here's true story abt. the Comet

My paternal grandfather (in addition to many other life experiences) at one time operated a restaurant in the section of Rhode Island that is known as "South County." There were, of course, more than few New Haven folks who dined there.

Among the group were two brothers, George and Al Bernard, who were engineers on the New Haven. They handled the "Comet" fairly regularly. The "Comet" was viewed as a good run; not necessarily as august as say the "Yankee Clipper" or the "Merchants," but a good run, nevertheless.

My dad as he told me sort of "hinted around," and one afternoon, in or about Spring, 1936 or so, he found himself with George Bernard in the cab of the Comet en route from Providence to Boston. His take on the ride was that the train itself rode fairly smoothly although it was a bit noisy. They did "clip off the miles," though. The view from the cab as he described it sounded much like that from the infamous turbo train a few decades later. He told me that they met a couple of trains along the way and it was hard not to flinch, especially as that big steam engine got closer, even though it was on the other track. George never even blinked, he said.

They had coffee and a bite at the local beanery which was an old passenger car deep in the yard at South Station. Dad's ride back to Providence was in one of the parlor cars on whatever afternoon train happened to be available.

The Comet, unlike many of its streamlined fellows on the NYNH&H, was successful. In fact, more people wanted to ride it than it could hold, so a conventional train was substituted, and by the late 1940s, it was running on the Old Colony lines south of Boston. By the way, the fare between Providence and Boston on the "Comet" was $.90.

Now for one more New Haven item (also an encore).

I got a chance to ride the mail train in a Pennsylvania Railroad coach. I spent the entire trip with my nose pressed against the window, trying to see and experience everything. Far down the track in the maze of signal lights, a yellow light stabbed the darkness. It’s train time; one last bag was tossed into the third mail car and the doors roll shut. A low “whonk-whonk” from the PAs horn and the mail train rolled off into the night toward Boston. Slowly at first and then faster the train moved, past the pagoda-roofed interlocking at the east end of the Providence station. This tower controlled access to the New Haven line that ran through the East Providence tunnel and under the campus of Brown University to carry freight to the other side of the city and down the bay. A curve to the left and then to the right let the track pass between basalt-black stone walls. Next, we passed through a factory district with sidings crowded with cars from different railroads such as Santa Fe, Burlington, Union Pacific, Missouri-Kansas-Texas and Cotton Belt. Northup Avenue with its engine house on the left and then the Providence yard where I saw a switcher making up a train and a set of road power with a freight ready to head to Cedar Hill or maybe to the floats at Oak Point. Past Boston Switch we swung right around the Pawtucket curve and past the waterworks. I felt the train surge forward as we dived under Rte 1 at Cumberland and crossed from Rhode Island into Massachusetts. Mansfield gone in a flash and then Attleboro with its brick station and its tower and tracks curving off to the right. We slowed just a little going up Sharon Hill – the ruling grade on the Shore Line – only to roar downgrade through the Sharon Station. The train slowed to approach the Canton Viaduct, crossed the viaduct and passed the Canton Junction. The Stoughton Branch left the Shore Line here. Now through the cut just east of the station, under the Chapman Street Bridge and another short downhill stretch before crossing the swampland near Route 128 and Readville. After that, it was but a short time until Back Bay and then South Station. The Post Office had a large facility beside South Station and here there were mail and express cars from throughout the country. I recall cars from the New Haven, Pennsylvania, New York Central, and exotic lines such as the Seaboard, Missouri Pacific, Atlantic Coast Line and the Southern Pacific.

Work safe
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Posted by West Coast S on Friday, June 2, 2006 4:09 PM
Afternoon, Al, CM3 and Rob

Amazing how designers think alike, SP considered a design similar to the Comet for the orginal Daylight. President Russell rejected the design for several reason including, and I quote " It looks more like a high speed trolley then a streamliner" unqote.

The lack of flexibilty also caused the design to never develope beyond a proposed blueprint . Russell instructed the designers to go back to the drawing board and spare no expense in designing the greatest steam powered streamliner ever to grace the rails. I must say they suceeded in every way at the tune of twelve million depression dollars.

Rob, My dad grew up in Oakland and to his dying day would recall the fine faire served aboard all the transbay ferries, but especially those of the Key System, he spent years trying to find that particular MJB blend commercially , to no avail...memories indeed


Dave
SP the way it was in S scale
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Posted by wanswheel on Friday, June 2, 2006 10:07 PM
[bday] John many happy returns to the roundhouse.

Not much else going on, the Mets are rained out, a few pictures of historic locomotives.

Flying Yankee at Portland, Maine, August 16, 1937. Otto Perry photo
http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00012602+OP-12602

The Comet at Providence, August 18, 1937. Otto Perry
http://photoswest.org/photos/00013626/00013746.jpg

The Comet, Boston 1940, enlarge to read the fine print
http://64.246.11.82/images/p/P3.jpg.10391.jpg

M-10001 at Cheyenne on October 23, 1934, during record run: Los Angeles to New York in about 57 hours. Otto Perry photos
http://photoswest.org/photos/00019376/00019399.jpg

M-10002 City of Los Angeles at Cheyenne, Wyo., March 7,1937.
http://photoswest.org/photos/00017376/00017409.jpg

M-10003 at Denver, April 2, 1937
http://photoswest.org/photos/00017376/00017410.jpg

M-10004 City of San Francisco at Green River, Wyo., October 24, 1937.
http://photoswest.org/photos/00019376/00019416.jpg

M-10005 first westbound City of Denver arriving at Denver, June 19, 1936. http://photoswest.org/photos/00019376/00019419.jpg

M-10006 first eastbound City of Denver, ready to leave Denver, June 18, 1936.
http://photoswest.org/photos/00019376/00019424.jpg

Hiawatha, engine 1, type 4-4-2, north of Milwaukee, August 5, 1937. Otto Perry photos
http://photoswest.org/photos/00005126/00005134.jpg

Hiawatha, engine 2, type 4-4-2, Chicago, September 25, 1935.
http://photoswest.org/photos/00005126/00005137.jpg

Hiawatha, engine 3, type 4-4-2, Portage, Wis., August 9, 1939.
http://photoswest.org/photos/00005126/00005143.jpg

Afternoon Hiawatha, engine 4, type 4-4-2, Portage, Wis., August 9, 1939.
http://photoswest.org/photos/00005126/00005145.jpg

Afternoon Hiawatha; engine 100, type 4-6-4, Portage, Wis., August 9, 1939. http://photoswest.org/photos/00005126/00005148.jpg

Afternoon Hiawatha; engine 101, type 4-6-4, near Deerfield, Ill., June 21, 1946. http://photoswest.org/photos/00005126/00005149.jpg

Afternoon Hiawatha, engine 102, type 4-6-4, Chicago, August 12, 1939.
http://photoswest.org/photos/00005126/00005150.jpg

Olympian Hiawatha, engine 8-A, type FM A "Erie" + unit, Butte, Mont., June 24, 1949
http://photoswest.org/photos/00005126/00005222.jpg

Olympian Hiawatha, engine number 8-A , type FM A "Erie" + unit , Pipestone Pass above Butte, Mont., June 24, 1949.
http://photoswest.org/photos/00005126/00005223.jpg

Denver and Rio Grande Western "Scenic Limited" by the Arkansas River at Hanging Bridge, Fremont County, Colorado. Otto Perry wasn't there that day.
http://photoswest.org/photos/00138126/00138134.jpg

Chicago White Sox at the Royal Gorge, Feb. 27, 1910
Is that "Big Ed" Walsh?
http://photoswest.org/photos/00138251/00138342.jpg
Mike
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Posted by passengerfan on Saturday, June 3, 2006 6:29 AM
Good Morning Mike and any other early risers this AM. Just time for a quick coffee and a crumpet from the Mentor Village Bakery.

Mike really enjoyed all of the early streamliner photos.

My next installment of early streamliners follows.

C&NW - UP
CITY OF PORTLAND
(June 5, 1935 – July 26, 1935 – February 6, 1936 – March 27, 1939)
2,271 miles
By Al

The Union Pacific Railroad received a six car articulated diesel powered streamliner the M-10001 CITY OF PORTLAND in October 1934 from Pullman Standard. This train set was nearly identical to the earlier M-10000 CITY OF SALINA in profile but with the addition of more articulated cars. The CITY OF PORTLAND would enter service on June 5, 1935 between Chicago and Portland, Oregon and be withdrawn for further modifications on July 26, 1935.
Once again the M-10001 CITY OF PORTLAND train set entered service on February 6, 1936 after extensive modifications and remained in service until replaced by a newer CITY OF PORTLAND train set March 27, 1939. On that date the M-10001 CITY OF PORTLAND train set was retired and returned to Omaha where it was placed in Storage pending possible further use. With a severe Aluminum shortage in WW II the Union Pacific finding no further use for the M-10001 CITY OF PORTLAND scrapped the entire train. Since it’s original construction date the M-10001 train set had received one additional articulated car to it’s consist and the original 900 hp Winton Diesel engine had been replaced with a larger 1,200 hp Winton Diesel engine necessitating lengthening the articulated power unit.

M-10001 Articulated 1,200 hp Winton powered Diesel Cab Unit
12200 Articulated Baggage 12 Crew Dormitory Car
10300 Articulated 30 seat Dining 10 seat Lounge Car
OVERLAND TRAIL Articulated 8 Section 1 Compartment 1 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
ABRAHAM LINCOLN Articulated 10 Section 1 Compartment 1 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
OREGON TRAIL Articulated 8 Section 1 Compartment 1 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
10402 Articulated 54 Revenue seat Coach Buffet Blind End Observation

B&O
ROYAL BLUE
(June 24, 1935)
By Al

The Baltimore & Ohio received two eight car lightweight streamlined train sets from American Car & Foundry in 1935. The first of these was powered by a 4-6-4 semi streamlined Locomotive named the LORD BALTIMORE. The B&O also assigned 1,800 hp Boxcab diesel #50 from EMC to alternate with the LORD BALTIMORE as power for the ROYAL BLUE. The LORD BALTIMORE and its eight car train entered service June 24, 1935 between Jersey City and Washington, D. C. round trip daily as the ROYAL BLUE. The new Aluminum train as it was referred to replaced a heavyweight train on this route. The Aluminum train actually had a steel center sill for additional strength. The new train set was comprised of a Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office Car 5750, trailed by three 64 Revenue seat Coaches 5800-5802, a 7 seat Lunch Counter 32 seat Dining Car 5700. The next two cars were a pair of 24 Revenue seat Parlor cars with a 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room 5930 and 5931, and the last car in the consist was a 18 revenue seat parlor 14 seat Lounge Observation number 5998. This beautiful Observation featured a boat tail end made for viewing with lots of windows. Running time of the ROYAL BLUE was comparable to the PRR except for the bus transit time from New York City to Jersey City to catch the ROYAL BLUE.
The B&O shops built a matching 60 revenue seat coach in January, 1937 numbered 5806 and added this car to the consist of the ROYAL BLUE.
In July 1937 the B&O transferred the entire nine-car train set to its Alton subsidiary for service between Chicago and St. Louis as the ABRAHAM LINCOLN. The former ROYAL BLUE train became the second streamlined train set to bear the name ABRAHAM LINCOLN on the Alton beginning July 26, 1937.

1 LORD BALTIMORE 4-6-4 Semi Streamlined Locomotive & Tender
Or
50 EMC 1,800 hp Boxcab Diesel Unit

5750 Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office Car

5800 64 Revenue seat Coach

5801 64 Revenue seat Coach

5802 64 Revenue seat Coach

5700 9 seat Lunch Counter 32 seat Dining Car

5930 24 Revenue seat Parlor Car with 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room

5931 24 Revenue seat Parlor Car with 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room

5998 18 Revenue seat Parlor 14 seat Lounge Observation

B&O/C&A
ABRAHAM LINCOLN
(July 1, 1935)
by Al

The second B&O lightweight streamlined train of 1935 to enter service was another eight car non-articulated consist from American Car & Foundry assigned to service between St. Louis and Chicago round trip daily. The ABRAHAM LINCOLN as the train was named operated over B&O subsidiary Chicago & Alton. This train differed from the ROYAL BLUE train in that it was constructed entirely of Cor – Ten steel and was actually built to see how this easily shaped steel would hold up to the rigors of Railroad service. Actually the Aluminum and Steel train sets were built to compare how the new materials would stand up to the stresses and strains found in the Railroad environment. Power for the new ABRAHAM LINCOLN was a semi streamlined 4-4-4 Steam Locomotive and Tender named the LADY BALTIMORE. The B&O transferred the 50 EMC Boxcab diesel to the ABRAHAM LINCOLN beginning April 27, 1936. When the ROYAL BLUE consist was transferred to the Alton and became the ABRAHAM LINCOLN the original streamlined ABRAHAM LINCOLN train was renamed the ANN RUTLEDGE and continued in round trip St. Louis – Chicago service under the new name beginning July 26, 1937.

2 LADY BALTIMORE Semi-Streamlined 4-4-4 Steam Locomotive & Tender

5751 Baggage 30’ Railway Post office Car

5803 64 Revenue seat Coach

5804 64 Revenue seat Coach

5805 64 Revenue seat Coach

5701 9 seat Lunch Counter 32 seat Dining Car

5932 24 Revenue seat Parlor Car with 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room

5933 24 Revenue seat Parlor Car with 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room

5999 18 Revenue seat Parlor 14 seat Lounge Observation

GM&N
REBELS
(July 10, 1939)
By Al

American Car & Foundry Company delivered two three car diesel powered streamliners to the Gulf Mobile & Northern Railway for service as the REBELS in overnight service between New Orleans and Jackson, Tennessee beginning July 10, 1935. The three car non-articulated trains were not built for high-speed service but instead inexpensive overnight travel between the two cities. The Shovelnose Cab unit featured a 600 hp Seymour and MacKintosh diesel with Westinghouse main Generator and traction motors. Behind the control Cab and engine room was a 15’ Railway Post Office compartment and Baggage room complete with train heat boiler. The second car in each consist was a divided coach with 24 seat colored section with a pair of restrooms, followed by a 38 seat white seating area with another pair of restrooms and a Buffet where food was served to passengers at their seats. The third car in each REBEL train set featured a Stateroom with private bathroom Annex, six Pullman sections with upper and lower berths, a pair of large restrooms and in the boat tail Observation end was a 19 seat Lounge. A single 71 seat divided coach departed New Orleans in the northbound REBEL each evening and was set out in Jackson, Mississippi later that evening. The next mornings Southbound REBEL picked the car up in Jackson and returned it to New Orleans.

352 Shovelnose Cab 600 hp Diesel Power Unit with 15’ Railway Post Office Compartment and Baggage Room with Train Heat Boiler

372 62 Revenue seat Divided Coach with Buffet

395 Stateroom with Annex 6 Sections 18 seat Lounge Observation

CONSIST TWO

353 Shovelnose Cab 600 hp Diesel Power Unit with 15” Railway Post Office Compartment and Baggage Room with Train Heat Boiler

373 62 Revenue seat Divided Coach with Buffet

396 Stateroom with Annex 6 sections 18 seat Lounge Observation

374 71 Revenue seat Divided Coach
(Operated between New Orleans and Jackson only)


TTFN Al
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, June 3, 2006 7:18 AM
Good Saturday morning gentlemen. This past week doesn't bare repeating...ever! Cindy, just a cuppa Joe and a "lead sinker" please. The 3 day weekend took a toll financially and for "making up on lost time." Before any other business at hand, I'd like to wish Jlampke John a [bday] with many happy returns. Hopefully, next time will find you some where closer to home for a proper "wetting down" for celebrating the event. Hey, its gotta be a good feeling to have that new stripe along with your Natal hash mark, eh? I can't forget how pleased I was when I received that 3rd "Rocker" under my Sergeant stripes years ago. Rob and Al, you guys have made hurculean efforts with keeping "Our" Place afloat and I'm sure every "Memeber of the order of Permanent Stools" deeply appreciates your giving selfless time and effort to that end.[tup] X a google. Cm3, Mike and Dave have surely come through with that spirit of volunteering so needed 'bout now. Ironically, by pre posting, I missed Pete's entry on taking in the "Severn Valley R.R." added to his itenary.[:I] As mentioned in my last Post, my friend Jack has booked the same "excursion" for September, speaking of "irony." Well, about now, I am thinking that our "Mentor, Cheif Honcho" and his lovely bride are well into the hinterlands of "The Great Land," Alaska. Even though Juneau couldn't make the trip, there should be no shortage of his "Canine Kin" all about. Happy Anniversary Commander and best wishes for a pleasant adventure to you both.

Dave, thanks for "ringing" the trolley bell on the Sacramento Northern and its' interface with the venerable Key System of the S.F. Bay area. It is indeed a happy reminder that these 2 systems have not been buried in antiquity. Rob must be as elated as I am for this "Juice" bonus from the West Coast.[tup] Rob, great data on the B.S.R., B.S.M. nad Brantford and Hamilton lines. Everybody seemed to get on the band wagon for "light weight" Zephyr styled articulated trains. "...a high speed trolley..." not a surprising quote from S.P. Presidnet Russell when you consider the classic Northern type steam locos of the Daylights and extra-wide passenger car bodies were his alternative. Still, these articulated trains carved out a niche all their own in American R.R. history. Certainly, they ushered in the transition to stainless steel cars with a lot of pinache and vain glory from their Roads P.R. Depts. and the Press during their halcyon days. Who could've imagined that this previous engineering concept would be reestablished into the success of the later Talgo/Bullet trains of today?

Rob, cooler climes sounds mighty good about now. However, I couldn't help noticing that Toronto temps. were running higher than Tampa's occasionally.[:O] Any rate, there is certainly more railroading there than I've seen in the entire southeast U.S.! I'm lucky to have a daily C.S.X. way freight to gauk at hereabouts. Amtrak's 2 trains daily out of Tampa arrive and depart at ungodly hours and in the worst part of town.[V] Say, I see that Amtrak is involved in emrgency evacuations from New Orleans in future. This may be a case of "carrying coals to Newcastle" as the City's Electorate voted in the same corrupt machine they had before Katrina. "Duh, where'd they go, where'd they go?"

CM3, I can't recall when I've had a better "belly laugh" than the nearly sardonic humo(u)r in the "potted plants" dilemma.[(-D] Also, the N.H. reminiscence pieces were "as good as it gets."[^] Mike, it is still a marvel to me that you draw on such a vast reservoir of web sites and links. Okay I'm, no doubt, missing some folks but the phone just rang with impending projects for next week. It must be sayanora 'til next time. Happy rails to all.
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Posted by trolleyboy on Saturday, June 3, 2006 9:14 AM
Good morning Cindy and gentlemen, I see that having H&H posted as chaparones has helped keep Cindy safe and happy so far this week. I did notice that a couple of the track gang members are sproting neck braces though [:O] Just a solid belt of the speacial "mentor blend " there this morning Cindy and an apple turnover.

First things first a [bday][bday] grettings to John our far flung travelling member of our little band here . Here's to many more, and many more stripes in your future sir [tup]

Second a hearty and happy anniversary to our own chief cook and bottle washer Tom. I'm sure that they are indeed enjoying their sojourne into the vast Hinterlands of Alaska.

Thirdly thanks guys for keeping the boat right side up yesterday [tup] lots of great previously enjoyed annecdotes and comments fer sure fer sure.

Dave Thanks for all the additional Key system and PE info yesterday, great reads all.The Key system does indeed remind me of how the GRR and LE&N interacted with the local city systems and with the CN and CP as well. Hopefully your "general friend " doesn't find the need to require 24-36 hour days. cause you know his type tend to think that they can bend the natural laws of time and space. [tdn]

CM3 Wonderfull remenicances of the NH and the Pennsey. i know that the good captain will appreciate them once he returns from his vacation. Throuhg in some heavy GG1 and NH electric info and we will all be properly "energized" [;)][swg]

Mike Wonderful urls from our IT department as per usual. I'm gald that you are enjoying the reading material that I put forth.[tup]

Ted Your sage comment and profound wisdom on the goings and commings of this site is always right on and welcome [bow] thank-you sir. As to relocating to cooler climes. Why not try Anchorage or Juneau [?] No hurricanes ( a fair bit of snow ) and it definatly won't get as hot a hummid.[swg] Mind you you will need to buy a 12 guage to repell mosquito's [:O] That or just charge them rent [swg]

Well hopefully that will catch me up on the past days activity [tup][:D]

Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Saturday, June 3, 2006 9:22 AM
Well back again just for a bit anyway.

Just a "thot" about tomorrow. Normally it is photo day, however most of our photo contributors are away on vacation's at the moment. so I propose a bit of a different idea for tomorrow. If you would like continue to post the encore type materials or Tomhas provided us over the last few weeks with the page urls for the past photo days. Why not pop back and take a peak at some of them and using the forum systems "quote function bring back some of your favourites. Worth a shot. I have some new photo's for tomorrow but like today I am working so I won't have the entire day to spread things out. Thanks ahead for any and all help


Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Saturday, June 3, 2006 9:30 AM
Since he's still inexplicably missing. NICK WHERE ARE YOUOOOOO ! I thought that I would interject some of his missed sence of humour and the sureal into our little saturday party.

Rob

PS I'm setting up a search party for Nick, Boris and Tex are leading it since they were the last one's to see him. Hmmmm you don't think they had something to do with it do you[:0][xx(]

Seriously though has anyone dropped him an email to see how he's doing or not doing [?]


QUOTE: Originally posted by nickinwestwales

Well good evening fellow tipplers,drink up please cos it`s time for a round from across the water [4:-)]TOM-If you would be so kind-I`ll try a Staropramen,one yourself and refre***he company.
Well,I bear glad tidings from our touring member PETE-he called me this afternoon from Swansea,due to cancellations and late running he was unable to make the last 70 miles across to here,but he and his lady wife are both in fine fettle,enjoying their holiday and he is eager to get back amongst it and catch up with the ebb & flow.
He is of the opinion that he will be back over in june for a family wedding and we will definately raise a glass or two together ( We have a tall ships regatta due around then and waterborne high jinks are positively indicated ).
Am late tonight after a 3-way real-time conversation-a facility I didn`t realise this machine possessed-with the remaining members of the band,both of whom are as eager as myself to treat Charlie`s desertion as a positive opportunity and to move onwards and upwards a.s.a.p--splendid stuff [^]
General query-I heard somewhere recently that Lionel Trains are now owned by Neil Young,the well known Canadian troubadour and Steven Spielberg,who I understand is something in moving pictures-I know Young has a huge ( barn sized) Lionel spread which is part of the therapy for his deaf-blind kids,which gives the rumour some substance--can anyone shed any light on this ??
LARS-thank you for the kind words,my function here is largely one of `court jester`-since I have little to contribute in the `Classic Trains` area,I try to flesh out the bar & grill side of things and prevent it all becoming too dry and dusty and technical--aided and abetted by those masters of the surreal MANAGER TED & BAR CHANDLER ROB,without whom....
[4:-)]TOM-Oh yes,us Brits were drinking cider long before you Teutons first turned barley into beer-indeed,I have given the best years of my liver to the stuff-at one stage in my development,it was not uncommon to drink a bottle of T-Bird before going out and to then wash it down with 10 or 12 pints of farmhouse cider-a murky and cloudy brew of about 9% alcohol content-happily missisnick rescued me from that particular evolutionary dead end and I now regard it as a learning experience ( although it would be nice to have retained a few more teeth.........) Pix will be with you as soon as found-will try to put together a `piece` about the R.N.A.D Trecwn railway-given the maritime heritage hereabouts I feel it would probably be relevant
SIR THEODORE-agree entirely with your thoughts re band organisation-at best its like trying to herd cats in the dark,at worst it`s the short route to madness..lets raise a glass to M.L.K jr and freedom-salut,mon ami [tup]
CM3-thanks for kind thoughts also-tis darkest before the dawn and all that--There were still a couple of airship sheds around over here back at the end of the 50`s,when my dad was inducted into the R.A.F ,one of them was used for model glider flying contests since it provided the largest volume of still air in the country.
[4:-)]TOM-that N.P. cruise does sound tempting-they must have employed some very clever writers-very strong imagery...
ROB-if you get Lightfoot tickets,do the decent thing and bootleg it for those of us less fortunate-I`ll do a straight swap for my only-4-copies-ever-made,(including Keith`s) straight-from-the-desk Stones rehearsal session ( scrappy but fun )
O.K-looks like time for my self-improvement class (as advertised in the Gazette)so,starkle,starkle little twink-moonlight mile for me-be good chaps,see you soon,nick[C=:-)]
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Posted by trolleyboy on Saturday, June 3, 2006 9:36 AM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

A wind up of Thursday's Interurban fest. This being the CPR's other electric line The Grand River Railway. Rob


CLASSIC JUICE # 17 THE GRAND RIVER RAILWAY BEGINNINGS


It began as one of Canada's first electric street railways, four miles of track known as the Galt and Preston Street Railway. In 1894, it was built from the Grand Trunk station in Galt,following King and Main to the speed river in Preston,and the collection of resort hotels known as Preston Springs. The early years were good ones,and by 1896 the line had expanded to Hespler, and thereby remnamed as the Galt, Preston and Hespler Railway. ( All three towns are now known as the City of Cambridge Ontario ) By 1898 it was carrying 35,000 passengers and 1,000 tons of freight each month,thanks largely to connections with the CPR station at samuelson street in Galt.


In the meantime, the Preston and Berlin railway was building from the GP&H at east Preston,following a route that took it through Freeport,Centreville,and along King street in Berlin( preasant day Kitchener ) to it's junction with the Waterloo and Berlin Railway at Albert street. It's Waterloo terminus was at Erb st near the site of what was Waterloo's St Jacobs tourist Raiway line. ( This line will likley be part of the New Light rail system building for Waterloo,Kitchener and Cambridge

Service on this new line the PBR began in 1904 and four years laterthe line merged with the GPH itself. Car barns and a station were built at Preston Jct, on the north side of th speed rivernear the entrance to today's Riverside Park. Another station was built on Guelph street at the popular Idelwyde Park,and a terminus added onGuelph street in Hespler. Later still in 1918 the line recieved it's final name the Grang River Railway.

CPR Ownership

In 1921 the route was realigned trough Kitchener between the city limit and Courtland St. To accomodate this new alignment at station was built at Queen st, a wooden structure initially which was replaced by a Tudor style brick station in 1943. In Galt, a new solid brick station built to CPR's " international" flat roofed style wa added at main street.

Although bus service began in 1925,rail passenger service remained largely uninterrupted until 1938 when it was cut back from Waterloo to the Queen st station in Kitchener. And following the war, a new set iof passenger coaches, the first interurban's built in canada since 1930 were put into service betweenKitchener and Galt. More frieght business was picked up at this point with steeple cabs becomming more common sights on the line than the strings of interurban cars.

The booming frieght business was continued as well,feeding the CPR line in Galt. But the post war auto boom soon began to take it's toll and passenger traffic declined,finally ending in 1955. The old GRR track was cut back from Centreville to Ottawa street,while a new link was built from a point south of Centreville to a CN spur on the West side of Kitchener. Electric frieght operations continued untill 1961 when COP pulled the plug a switched the line over to SW1200RS diesels. In the 1990's more trackage was pulled from between Ottawa street and Victoria park. Trains continue to use the GRR tracks between Centreville and Preston JCt where new spurs were built to the new Toyota assembly plant.


Enjoy Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Saturday, June 3, 2006 9:43 AM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

An encore from page 224 as posted by our all around train guy Barndad Doug.
Enjoy again this calssic steam offering from Doug's roundhouse !

Rob


QUOTE: Originally posted by barndad


A Brief History of Russian Decapods – by Thomas J. Schneider and Hugh R. Harris – selected from November 1996 Rail & Wire

Train 21 departs Harrisville en route to Springfield. The Decapods were used on this line as they were very “light footed” and easy on track. Photo collection of Don Wirth.


The first Decapods ordered in 1914, were shipped in 1915. Locomotives were built by Baldwin Locomotive Works and Alco (at both the Brooks and Schenectady Plants) with additional units from the Canadian Locomotive Company. These orders, starting in 1914, were to re-equip the state railroads of Russia. Specific orders for Decapods by year are listed in Table II.



In May of 1917 the Russian government notified the United States government through the US Ambassador in Moscow, or their desire to order another 2,000 Decapods. In June of 1917, Professor Lomonosoff of the Russian Mission discussed the need in Russia for another 2,000 Decapods in meetings with the American press in Washington. The order was cabled to the federal government in October of 1917, and in November, 1917, it was assigned to Baldwin and American by the United States Railroad Administration (USRA).

However, by November of 1917 the federal government was undecided about the situation in Russia, and the new order was placed on hold. In any case, by the middle of 1917 the locomotive builders already had backlogs that were full through 1918, so there was no capacity available to start the new order even if it had been released. Both Baldwin and Alco were already building locomotives for the French, Italian and British railways as well as large orders of “Pershing” (Consolidation) locomotives for the American Expeditionary Force (AEF). There is no evidence that any work was done on any locomotives for the new Russian 2,000 unit order.

During 1917, world order had changed. The Russian Revolution was underway. The communist revolutionaries would likely not be long-term friends of the United States, and Russia had started negotiating a peace treaty with Germany in any case. The strategic reasons for supplying Russia with locomotives were no longer valid. So in November, 1917, the US government not only canceled work on new orders for Russia, but stopped delivery of locomotives already built but not shipped.

Earlier in 1917 two orders had been placed. In May the Russian government ordered 60 Decapods from Baldwin along with another 53 small gasoline locomotives. In June a further order of 500 Decapods was placed, split equally between Baldwin and Alco. On all the orders, the locomotives were erected and tested at the builder’s plant and then were broken down and crated for shipment.

When shipments were suspended, most of the orders for Russia had been built and shipped with the exception of this last one. The last order for 500 locomotives was largely complete with some shipped, others crated and prepared for shipment, and the balance of the process of final erection at the builders or already completed and being stored at the builder’s plants.

The numbers of locomotives actually completed and shipped is a subject of substantial controversy. According to William D. Edison’s well-researched article cited above, somewhere between 831 and 857 locomotives actually made it overseas. We do know from the United States Railroad Administration records that 200 locomotives were completed and then converted for American service. These were 100 units from the last Baldwin order, USRA 1101-1200 (originally Russian numbers E926 to E1025), 35 from Alco Brooks (USRA 1066-1100, Russian E1176 to E1210) and 65 from Alco-Richmond which became USRA 1001-1065. Also at least half of the last Baldwin order was canceled, as well as some portion of the Alco orders. One of the last locomotives built but not shipped eventually became our Frisco 1630, but not immediately.

Meanwhile, railroads in the United States were facing a crisis. Even though the United States did not declare war on Germany and Austria until April, 1917, America’s industrial might was busy supplying the needs of Allied countries already at war. The railroads were suddenly strained to capacity.

The winter of 1916-1917 was the worst in many years and caused immense delays on the railroads. Track was frozen, equipment breakdowns were frequent and much of the effort of the roundhouse and shop crews was expended digging locomotives out of snowdrifts. One report suggests the one division of the Pennsylvania Railroad used over 50% of their shop crew time that way one month.

During most of 1917 the railroads were trying to recover from the damage done by the bad weather and by the enormous losses in skilled personnel both to the armed forces and to better paying jobs in the manufacturing industries.

Unfortunately the winter of 1917-1918 was a repeat of the previous year. Shipments were delayed, warships were unable to sail on schedule because there was insufficient coal at the docks and material for the troops couldn’t be gathered ready for ocean transportation because there were too few cars available. Late in 1917, the United States Railway Administration (USRA) was created to take over operational control of the railroads and try to bring unity and order to the transportation system.

By moving locomotives from one area to another and having roads with spare shop capacity repair locomotives for other lines much progress was made. However power was still in critically short supply. And with the demand for locomotives to be built and shipped to France to support the American Expeditionary Force there was little chance of enough new locomotives coming from the builders for domestic use.

However, the Russian Decapods which had been built but were not shipped were available and could be modified for use in the US. And that is what the USRA decided to do. According to the USRA report for 1918, 200 of the Decapods were modified and leased by the War Department to US Railroads at $45.00 per day (see Table III).



One Baldwin leased to the Pennsylvania Railroad bore the builder’s number 47953. This is the locomotive that ultimately became the Frisco 1630. Operating as USRA 1147, she ran on Pennsylvania lines west of Pittsburgh from March 1918 until 1920. Some old PRR employees recall that USRA 1147 ran on the PRR lines in Illinois in the 1918-1919 time period. We have little other information about the kind of work she did or any specific trains that she pulled while with the Pennsylvania Railroad.

[:I] One part to go ! Have a great evening !![:I]
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Central Valley California
  • 2,841 posts
Posted by passengerfan on Saturday, June 3, 2006 9:48 AM
Happy Birthday John and may you have many more all in good health.

I am back up to speed again and will do one more post for the day before going to work. Yes I said work. Got my release yesterday and no more visits to the Doc for three months.

CB&Q
MARK TWAIN ZEPHYR
(October 28, 1935)
by Al


The Burlington received a four car articulated streamlined train in October 1935 from Budd in Philadelphia named the MARK TWAIN ZEPHYR. The MARK TWAIN ZEPHYR train was nearly identical to the earlier PIONEER ZEPHYR train also consisting of four cars by this time. The new four car articulated train entered scheduled service on October 28, 1935 between St. Louis and Burlington, Iowa round trip daily by way of Hannibal, Missouri home of Samuel Clemens writer of the Mark Twain novels.
The MARK TWAIN ZEPHYR was withdrawn from its route between May 31, 1936 and November 7, 1936 when it and the PIONEER ZEPHYR were reduced to three car trains and operated in overnight service between Chicago and Denver as the ADVANCE DENVER ZEPHYRS. After completion of its ADVANCE DENVER ZEPHYR assignment the train returned to its regular MARK TWAIN ZEPHYR assignment until this service ended and the train was retired in the 1950’s.

9902 *** JOE Articulated Shovel-nose 600 hp Diesel Power Unit 30’ Railway Post Office Compartment Storage Mail Car
506 BECKY THATCHER Articulated Baggage Car
551 HUKKLEBERY FINN Articulated 16 seat Dinette 20 Revenue seat Coach
572 TOM SAWYER Articulated 40 Revenue seat Coach 16 seat Parlor Lounge Observation

C&NW - UP
M-10002
CITY OF LOS ANGELES
(May 15, 1936)
2,299 miles
by Al

The Union Pacific Railroad inaugurated their first articulated lightweight streamlined CITY OF LOS ANGELES on May 15, 1936 between Chicago and Los Angeles in 39 hours 45 minutes. This fast schedule was necessary to match the time keeping of rival Santa Fe’s SUPER CHIEF a heavyweight diesel powered train that had entered scheduled service three days earlier. The pair of power units were joined by bolster and could simply be uncoupled from the trailing articulated consist. The nine-car train carried both coach and sleeping car passengers with the coach passengers located in the rear two cars. The cars were numbered except for the four named sleeping cars. The M-10002 powered CITY OF LOS ANGELES train was withdrawn from this route on December 26, 1938 and stored in Omaha. On March 27, 1939 the train became the M-10002 CITY OF PORTLAND entering service between Chicago and Portland replacing the earlier CITY OF PORTLAND train. During August, 1941 the M-10002 CITY OF PORTLAND train was replaced by the M-10003 CITY OF PORTLAND train the original CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO train. The M-10002 train was reactivated on April 12, 1942 as an unnamed connecting train with the CITY OF PORTLAND operating between Portland and Seattle round trip daily. This became the first streamlined train to operate in scheduled service in the state of Washington.
The third train as the M-10002 powered train was known was retired a final time on March 13, 1943 in Omaha and ceased to exist as a train after that date. Several of the cars were used in other consists and the power units were sold off the property in 1946 for use in Southern California as stationary power generators for non-rail use.

M-10002A 1,200 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit
M-10002B 900 hp Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

12201 Articulated Auxiliary Power 30’ Railway Post Office Baggage Compartment Baggage Car
12760 Articulated Baggage 15 Crew Dormitory Kitchen Car
10301 Articulated 40 seat Dining 17 seat Lounge Car
SANTA ANITA Articulated 11 Section Sleeping Car
MORMON TRAIL Articulated 7 Double Bedroom 2 Compartment Sleeping Car
CINEMA Articulated 11 Section Sleeping Car
BOULDER CANYON Articulated 11 Section Sleeping Car
10403 Articulated 48 Revenue seat Coach
10404 Articulated 38 Revenue seat Coach Buffet Blind end Observation

IC
GREEN DIAMOND
(May 17, 1936)
by Al

A five car articulated train set closely resembling the Union Pacific articulated streamliners entered service between Chicago and St. Louis round trip daily beginning May 17, 1936. This train named the GREEN DIAMOND would be the only articulated lightweight streamlined train ever built for or owned by the Illinois Central Railroad. Delivered in a striking two color Green paint scheme the GREEN DIAMOND was nothing less than spectacular as it traversed through the cornfields and countryside of Illinois. This train quickly earned the nickname Caterpillar due to its color and articulation; thankfully it never became a butterfly. The GREEN DIAMOND was scheduled to operate between Chicago and St. Louis in 4 hours and 55 minutes with three scheduled intermediate stops. When a new postwar streamlined train named the GREEN DIAMOND on February 28, 1947 replaced the articulated GREEN DIAMOND train, the original articulated train found a second life operating between New Orleans, Lou. And Jackson, Miss. named the MISS LOU beginning April 27, 1947. In this service it remained until 1950 when the articulated train was returned to Chicago where it was subsequently retired and scrapped on August 31, 1950.

121 Articulated 1,200 hp Diesel Cab Unit
122 Articulated Baggage 30’ Railway Post office Car
123 Articulated 56 Revenue seat Coach
124 Articulated 44 Revenue seat Coach 16 seat Dinette Car
125 Articulated Kitchen 8 seat Dinette 18 Revenue seat Parlor 4 seat Lounge Observation

CB&Q
ADVANCE DENVER ZEPHYRS
(May 31, 1936 – November 6, 1936)
1,034 miles
by Al

With the impending arrival of Union Pacific’s streamlined diesel powered CITY OF DENVER trains the CB&Q thought it wise to steal some of their rivals thunder until the new DENVER ZEPHYRS could be placed in service in the late fall of 1936. The other reason for the ADVANCE DENVER ZEPHYRS was to protect a Chicago – Denver Mail contract. With that in mind the Burlington ADVANCE DENVER ZEPHYRS entered service on a fast 16-hour overnight schedule between the shores of Lake Michigan and the foot of the Rocky Mountains. For operation of the ADVANCE DENVER ZEPHYRS the CB&Q assigned the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR and 9903 MARK TWAIN ZEPHYR with both articulated train sets reduced to three cars for this fast overnight service. The reliability of the Diesels really proved themselves without question in this service for during that period between May 31, 1936 and November 6, 1936 there was never a recorded diesel failure. Both trains were operated over 1,000 miles daily at high speeds. In those 160 days of service the two articulated train sets operated 162,560 miles each in revenue service and averaged 63.5 miles per hour while operating those miles. Without a doubt this made other Railroads sit up and take notice that the diesel had something to offer besides a high initial investment cost. When the new DENVER ZEPHYRS entered service the two ADVANCE DENVER ZEPHYR train sets were returned to their previous duties. For the details of the two ADVANCE DENVER ZEPHYR trains see the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR and the 9903 MARK TWAIN ZEPHYR chapters.

TTFN Al
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Los Angeles
  • 1,619 posts
Posted by West Coast S on Saturday, June 3, 2006 12:58 PM

Morning all, I see we regulars are guarding the ramparts! Howdy Ted, Rob & AL..

Ted, kinda good for us that the lightweight articulated Daylight never came to be. The design team was concearned with cost, they misunderstood a directive to cost was no object, so while their intentions were good, they were a bit off the beam. Russell wanted time to study the diesel from afar and have SP consume the public spot light as the standard for seceral new cncepts in design and function.


Rob, you know how it goes, they chew you out one day and the next praise you, had a interesting meeting with some officers from the Joint Chiefs Of Staff yesterday, they selected my department to further support their overall mission, quite a vote of confidence to provided this responsibility.

Ok, the left coast PE encore is upon us, enjoy

QUOTE: Originally posted by West Coast S THE PACIFIC ELECTRIC ARROWHEAD BRANCH

How did you get your spring water in the old days? We all are no doubt familar with the brand, Arrowhead Waters.. Yep, you guessed it, orginally a Pacific Electric enterprise.
As PE was extending it's hold on the Southern California transportation market, tourist and city dwellers were prime motivation for devloping resorts and spas in the mountains surrounding the LA basin.

To that end PE, in 1913 built a branch to access Arrowhead Springs, high above Pasadena, intending to develop it as The Arrowhead Resort to counter the world renowned Mt. Lowe. PE never completed the grading or surveys upon reaching the base of the canyon due to WWI, at the conclusion of the conflict and the impact of the automobile it was no longer ecnomically viable. PE was at a loss of what to do with the line, it generated some freight traffic, but was expensive to maintain, being subject to floods and fire every season .

PE entered into a agreement with Arrowhead Waters to complete enough trackage to access the springs. Arrowhead Water was intent on expansion to meet growing customer demand, but lack of adquate, reliable transportation facalities prevented growth. Except for the occasional special, the passenger days were done for the Arrowhead branch.

Arrowhead and PE entered into a mutual agreement to developed the springs to included facalities to transport bulk spring water in specially designed and built tank cars. PE assigned selected box motors at first and later steeple cabs to handle these heavy trains, as the box motors and steeple cabs wore out, leased Southern Pacific Baldwin S12s or the three PE owned GE 44 Ton switchers operating in mutliple did the honors. It was one of several PE freight operations that proved extremely profitable and one of the last PE domains in operation after takeover by the SP upon complete PE abondoment in 1960.

Dave[8D]
SP the way it was in S scale
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • 4,190 posts
Posted by wanswheel on Saturday, June 3, 2006 7:22 PM
Hi Dave, another day, another Daylight

Engine 4356, type 4-8-2 , Los Angeles, May 1, 1934
http://photoswest.org/photos/00015876/00015998.jpg

Engine 4411, type 4-8-4 San Luis Obispo, Cal., July 26, 1937
http://photoswest.org/photos/00016001/00016048.jpg

Engine 4412 type 4-8-4, Los Angeles, July 27, 1937
http://photoswest.org/photos/00016001/00016051.jpg

Train #98, engine 4420 type 4-8-4, San Luis Obispo, Cal., July 23, 1938
http://photoswest.org/photos/00016001/00016058.jpg

Train #99, engine 4427 type 484, San Luis Obispo, Cal., July 23, 1938
http://photoswest.org/photos/00016001/00016065.jpg

"Daylight" observation car 2950, San Luis Obispo, Cal., July 26, 1937
http://photoswest.org/photos/00016001/00016120.jpg

Pacific Electric Railway
http://jpg2.lapl.org/spnb1/00017175.jpg

Arrowhead Branch
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics27/00048069.jpg

Al, glad you like the oldies, here's some more

The Rebel, engine 354 New Orleans, July 30, 1939.
http://photoswest.org/photos/00012126/00012185.jpg

Green Diamond engine 121, St. Louis, August 16, 1940
http://photoswest.org/photos/00012251/00012361.jpg

Denver Zephyr engine 4000 "Aeolus" type 4-6-4, February 26, 1938
http://photoswest.org/photos/00004251/00004322.jpg

9906 Denver Zephyr, Chicago July 25, 1940
http://photoswest.org/photos/00004626/00004746.jpg

Denver Zephyr at Hot Sulpher Springs, CO June 16, 1934
http://photoswest.org/photos/11006001/11006013.jpg

Denver Zephyr Buffet car kitchen counter service
http://photoswest.org/photos/11006001/11006018.jpg

Denver Zephyr lounge car
http://photoswest.org/photos/11006001/11006022.jpg

Denver Zephyr Zephyrettes?
http://photoswest.org/photos/11006001/11006024.jpg

Denver Zephyr Clock
http://photoswest.org/photos/11006001/11006021.jpg
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Los Angeles
  • 1,619 posts
Posted by West Coast S on Saturday, June 3, 2006 8:02 PM
Afternoon Wanswheel... Great URL's that Arrowhead billboard would look fantastic along my S right of way, I wonder what colors were used?

The PE URL is the Main Street terminal, before the elevated platforms wer built on the west side, so pre thrities at least, that's Main Street directly in front, today the building is known as the PE Lofts a example of the multi-million dollar loft conversions to be found in downtown LA these days , the foundation for the elevated platforms was reused for the pool,patio, gym area and for additional loft space.

In conjuction with the intial conversion bluprints and surveys, workers uncovered the sub basement during renovation, it was found to be a vertiable time capsule, intact brass railings lined the stairways and ornate wrought iron gates were intact on the platform gates, as were the platforms themself. Paperbacks and timetables were found in their racks where they had been lain for over seventy years ago, travel posters still lined the lobby wall, wall and ceiling fixtures were, for the most part complete, amazing! Perhaps that fact that PE sealed all access by use of concrete during a 1940's upgrade kept vandals at bay, some doubted if it even still existed, city records state the sub basement was filled with dirt and rock fill completely. As part of the approval process for loft conversions, it was ordered that it be perserved intact and not be available for any future conversion use.


Dave
SP the way it was in S scale
  • Member since
    May 2014
  • 3,727 posts
Posted by trolleyboy on Saturday, June 3, 2006 10:03 PM
Good evening fellow barflies. leon wake up man tis is still a plce of business for goodness sake.can't turn my back on these guys ever,and we still pay them[tdn] Must be a government job [swg][:-^].Been a tad slooow today at the goodship "Our Place" no matter though the info been of it's usual high caliber [tup]

Al A great streamliner post as per usual, even better news that you are back to work.[tup] and on the mend. Just don't overdo it aand try and save the world all in one go.Hopefully your long awaited trip to see your grand daughter won't be too far off.

Dave Great West coast encore sir, always good to read about the good old interurbans [tup] Hopefully they can turn that treasure trove of a sub basement into a museum of some sort, what a truly unique find. That shot of the billboard Mike put up for us certainly does look like a good one. Sounds like you are rubbing elbows with the right people at work, makes dealing with the bad so much easier.coarse there's always your trains to go home to if it get to stressfull, I find that the hobby is a good unwinder for ,me when I have one of those days.

Mike Hey thanks for stopping by, lots of great looking shots in your latest batch of urls.I loved the PE shots thanks for sharing .

Rob

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