"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[trolleyboy]

. ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

Another Classic Juice encore this evening, this one the pre-history of CNR owned an doperated electric lines in Canada.This was posted originally back on page 163,of note the same page our resident url meister Mike and our seagoing friend John first hooked up with us here.So happy aniversary of sorts guys [tup][8D]

ROB

Classic Juice # 11 Electricity and the big roads in Canada Part 1 CNR

The CNR had dabled in electrification over the years, Mostly in the pre-CNR days. The Grand Trunk on several occations dabbled with traction usually with predictable results ( they gave up and dieselized )

The GTR's first flirtation was in 1902. They purchased a small radial line the Hamilton,Grimsby & Beamsville.They did this to keep this interurban out of arch rival Canadian Northerns Hands who themselves were starting to amass a lot of samller lines electric and otherwise. (The irony of this of coarse is that both these roads failed and were the main components of the Candain National Railway.)

Three years later GTW sold this electric line to Cataract Power( ontario based electricity and traction company. The Brantford and hamilton was part of this group as well ) after losing interest in traction.

The very next year 1906 GTW purchased the Montreal and Southern Counties which had been incorporated in 1897 but has yet to start construction. The affair wasen't rushed no construction began really until 1909, even then it was slow and steady. The MS&C never reached it's intended target of Sherbrooke by 1925 when construction officially ended they were a 58 mile interurban. Sevice was discontinued in 1956.

The only mainline electrification Grand Trunk ever undertook wasthe St Clair Tunnel, this was only done after two fatal incidents with crews of steam engines asphyxiating in the 6,032 foot tunnel under the river.The tunnel was built in 1891 but even though desugbners said that electricity ws the way to do it the process was expensive so GT opted for athrasite burning 0-10-0's and a set of fans.The first accident occured in 1897 the second in 1904. So the electrification finally took place in1906 completeing in 1908. A four mile electric zone !The tunnel bed was lowered by CN in 1941 to increas capacity and lesson ferrry trips of frieght cars it was formally dieselized in 1958. Of coarse the whole tunnel was replaced in 1992.

The last major attempt at electrification by the Grand Trunk occured in BC. This was to be part of the Ill fated Grand Trunk Pacific.The Line between Prince Rupert BC and Fort Frasor was to be electrified do to the tunnels. The line started in 1905 with the last spike of the GTP layed in manitoba in 1914. Do to the lack of money the electrified portion never occured, Blasting of tunnels and some daylighting of the line was done instead at a far greater cost.The GTR bankrupsy of 1920 occured shortly after this second transcontinintal line was completed.

CNR's other predessesor the Canadian Northern also flirted with electrification.Most notably they began construction in 1912 the Mount Royal Tunnel in Montreal even though the co was racked with debt.

The CnoR felt that the tunnel has to be built because they had pooraccess to the city centre, as their terminus ws Morell street well east of downtown wher rivals CPR and GTW were located.With a population of 600,000 and being Canada's major seaport at the time the CnoR felt that money troubles or not they needed the access to Montreal to survive.

The new twin tracked tunnel ( under the city and the competition )was 3.3 miles and lentgh and was to be electrified.The electrification was to extend several miles beyond the tunnel . At Portal Heights the west side of the tunnel a station linkinf th CnoR with the CPR running above was to be built. A model town called Mount Royal was built to feed passengers to this new line.It ws laid out neatly with wide roads high quality houses etc and the roads wer paved with the stone excavated from the tunnel.The idea was that the inhabitants iof this new town werea ten minute ride to downtown via the CnoR's new electric line.


The project looked good on paper but by the time it was completed in 1918 the CnoR no longer existed. IT had been combined with tthe Candian government railways to form the new National Transcontinental and Inter colonial Railway. which in 1921 was joined by the defunct GTW/GTP to become the Candian National Railway.


What happened to the Mount Royal line? It's still around CN actually extended it Catenery and all to St Eustache & Deux montagnes. This comuter line is still operatied under the wire by CN for the Montreal transit authority !

The national harbour board electrics from the Port itself and the NS&T in Ontario wer also members of the Candian Northerns elctric lines and thus became CN property in 1921. The Mount Royal tunnel was demolished in 1943 and replaced byCN's Central station now the location od Place Boneventure. in 1964 montreal's subway system connect her with th electric MU coaches and Via trains,

At only 28 miles this electrified route certainly isn't the most impressive but it still operates today. heres how the rest of the CN electric lines panned out.


Toronto & Eastern ( ex CnoR ) aquired in 1917 abandined in 1924
Chatham Walaceburg & Lake erie ( ex CnoR )aquired 1917 abandoned 1930
Toronto Suburban Railway( ex Cnor ) aquired 1917 abandoned 1931 *
Shawinigan Falls Terminal RY ( ex GT joint CPR ) aquired 1950 dieselized 1958
Montreal & Southern Counties( ex GT ) service ended 1956
St Clair tunnel line ( ex GT )aquired 1920 dieselized 1958 largly unused 1992
Quebec Railway Light & Power Co (interurban ) Purchased 1951 dieselized 1959
Niagara st cath & Toronto ( ex CnoR )purchased 1917 dieselized 1960
Fort William hump yard trolley built 1924 discontinued early 60's
Cornwall Street Railway- bought and dieselized in 1971( freight only after 1953 )
London and Port Stanley bought 1966 alrady dieselized-largly abandoned
Mount Royal Tunnel Line(ex CnoR ) began 1918 operated for STCUM since july 1 1982

Rob

a Post script. You will note that I marked the Toronto Suburban Railway with a *This is becaus eit's not totally abandoned. The TSR was an interurban joining Toronto and Guelph on.The TTC still operates some of it's city trackage. In 1954 our museum's founding fathers bought up the portion of the line that we run on. we had to completely relay the track and catenery but I supose we do occupy the original ROW so that at least is note worthy.

[wanswheel]

Rob, Philly is the right place for a PCC to put its "John Hancock" on a double-parked Rolls Royce.

CM3, a locomotive perhaps similar to Schenectady's last stand, great writing!

B&M 1542 RS3 at Millers Falls, July 1, 1961
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/pictures/2881/File0065.jpg

Al, the photographer Otto Perry took these 2:

Locomotive LA-1 "City of Los Angeles" at Cheyenne, Wyo., February 13, 1938
http://photoswest.org/photos/00019376/00019387.jpg

Locomotive SF-1 "City of San Francisco" at Oakland, Calif., July 26, 1939
http://photoswest.org/photos/00019376/00019437.jpg

Commodore Vanderbilt's ancient forebear is the best part
http://images.indianahistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/DC002&CISOPTR=176&REC=7

[trolleyboy]

ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

Another Classic steam encore for you folks this evening as well. This also from originally page # 163. This subdivision still runs today serving the auto plants in Alliston and a few other small industries. The sub is not as long aas it once was. It also hosts on it's "abandoned" part, The South Simcoe Musuem's steam excursion train that runs in the summers between Tottingham and Beeton Ontario

Rob
CNR Steam The Alliston Subdivision Trains


Beeton to Collingwood Mixed Train

Alliston - Team track ( frieght shed plus stock pens )Peter Thompson & Sons,Gibson feed Mill , coal and lumber yard. team Track shipments included tobacco,potaotoes, and when in season Christmas trees.

Everett - team track ( served Alderson Coal, Gibson's elevator and grist mill )

Glencairn - team track ( local produce & animals )

Avening- team track ( same as above )

Creemore- team track ( frieght shed lcl , grain elevator, cattle pen ,Peter Thompson planning mill shipped from freight shed ) H. P. Shepard & Sons grain mill spur.

Glen Huron - team track ( Hamilton Brother's shipped / recieved feed , lumber , hardware and coal )

Duntroon - team track ( grain elevator , cattle ramp )

Nottawa - team track ( cattle pens ) Stock day once per week , later served by Meaford way feight.

Untill the time table change in april 1930 the second mixed train M393/392 leaving Beeton in the evening returning to Collingwood the following morning.After the early 1940's only mixed trains M391/394 were run on this sub. In the 30's and 40's the power was the ancient moguls 593,607,& 633. Once they were retired in the early 50's custmary power was by ten wheeler's 1287,1207,1358,1360,1363,1364,1390,&1397. Once in a while Allandale mogul's 87 or 88 would handle these trains their last runs were in 1955 however.Thes trains usually had one or two old wood coache/combines for the passenger compontent and handled mail a all the station's until 1955.[/green]

It was jokingly said that on the Alliston subdivision, trains went 20mph foreward,20mph sideways and 20mph up and down due to the rural nature of the sub and it's 56 lbs rail ! All old ex Canadain Northern 10 whelers and moguls were used on this line due to it's delicate light rail.The only regular non mixed passenger train to ply this line was in the form of train 661 from Hamilton this train ran through to collingwood normally powered by D-1CNR's infamous first diesel powered doodle bug which was more off than not out of service and replaced by a light pacific or 10 wheelers.The mixed trains would have an old wooden baggage and a coach all of ex CnoR fame.


Rob

[Anonymous]

A fine good Wednesday morning to all. Cindy, glad to see ya, just a cuppa Joe and Prune Danish will do it this a.m. I peeked in yesterday after returning from a long, hot day over yonder. There was such a flurry of activity that I demured to make a later entrance. Just as well, as I didn't have my wits about me in any case. Seems a 10 Cu. Yard dump truck chose to occupy my modest space on the Franklin Bridge ( Tampa-St. Pete ) forcing me to take to the inside lane or forever become fish fodder in Tampa Bay.[:O]

Rob, Dave, Mike our mutual passion for Alco Century and earlier diesel power runs prallel to the S.P. (et al.) Road's orders in wholesale lots during the middle-to-late Forty's. My, what fine pix have been brought up for everyone to drool over.[^] Also, with Mike's help, the old P.E. building set in post war L.A. city scape allowed us to see the "era" in context. There are too many "Encore" entries to go into great detail for now but I must duly note the Philadelphia P.C.C. "Charter" nostalgia certainly got my attention. Cm3, as Rob pointed out, the Boston Subway, street cars, B. & M. and NY, N.H. and H. R.R. replays are of the rare quality that the "Silver Throttle Award" was created.[bow] It has been some time since the "Awards Committee" has convened. On Cap'n Tom's return, perhaps deliberations could resume for further recognition? Al, the sheer volume of your "classic" passenger trains Encores sometimes belies the attention to minute detail each and every one contain. I dare say: "No other thread can make this claim!"

Rob, we must apprise Tom that every means at our disposal to locate the whereabouts of Nick [C=:-)], ( last seen in the presence of H. H., Tex and Boris ) are "in the field." P. I. Doyle is working with the U.K. MI -6 and Insp. Clueless has initiated a "dragnet" operation here at home. To date, only a complete set of all-copper Chef's cooking implements and a badly emmaciated musician's union card have been uncovered. Insp. Clueless will enlist the aid of Juneau in a thorough search of Mentor Lake on Tom's return. Okay Boris, on that encouraging note, I'll take my leave, so just "do it!" Gadfrey Daniel, someone get the squeegy mop before the tread boards are ruined![:(!] See you's later.

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Gang. Time for a coffee and one of those crumpets from the Mentor Village Bakery.

Mike you are doing a great job with the photos of the streamliners I have been posting. Here are a few more.

CRI&P
TEXAS ROCKET
(November 11, 1938)
By Al

This TEXAS ROCKET was the 9902 ZEPHYR purchased from the CB&Q and placed in service round trip daily between Dallas – Fort Worth and Houston replacing the earlier TEXAS ROCKET on this route as it was needed for another route discussed next. Now the former original TWIN ZEPHYRS were once again running on the same route opposite one another. The 9901 and 9902 together providing twice-daily round trip service between the two largest cities in Texas beginning November 11, 1938. For equipment see the earlier TWIN ZEPHYR listings. When the 9901 was wrecked and burned while being operated by the Rock Island they compensated the Burlington by returning the 9902 ZEPHYR to CB&Q ownership.

CRI&P
KANSAS CITY – TEXAS ROCKET
(November 15, 1938)
By Al

The original TEXAS ROCKET Rock Island TA powered train set and the TA powered train set from the KANSAS CITY – OKLAHOMA CITY ROCKET were used to start this new service on November 15, 1938. This permitted one set to operate northbound each day and the other to operate the southbound schedule. Since the train no longer served Oklahoma City directly the Rock Island painted one of their doodlebugs in full Rocket dress to run as a connecting train between the north – south mainline at El Reno and Oklahoma City. These trains became quite popular and would last even after the Rock Island combined the KANSAS CITY – MINNEAPOLIS ROCKET and the TEXAS ROCKET routes in 1945 as the TWIN STAR ROCKET. The cars in the original TEXAS ROCKET train set were renamed in 1938-39 to more closely reflect the area served.

602 EMC TA 1,200 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

402 CHEROKEE STRIP formerly DREAM LAKE Articulated Baggage Kitchen 32 Revenue seat Dinette Coach
302 SUNFLOWER STATE formerly MESA VERDE Articulated 76 Revenue seat Coach

452 LONE STAR formerly CENTENNIAL 28 Revenue seat Coach 24 seat Parlor Lounge Observation

SECOND CONSIST

606 EMC TA 1,200 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

403 CIMARRON RIVER Articulated Baggage Kitchen 32 seat Dinette Coach
303 CHISHOLM TRAIL Articulated 76 Revenue seat Coach

453 SOONER STATE 28 Revenue seat Coach 24 seat Parlor Lounge Observation

B&O
CAPITOL LIMITED
(November 23, 1938)
By Al

The Baltimore & Ohio Railroads finest was the flagship CAPITOL LIMITED an all Pullman train between Jersey City – Baltimore – Washington and Chicago. The PRR introduction of the Fleet of Modernism forced the B&O to streamline the heavyweight CAPITOL LIMITED if they wished to remain competitive. The B&O not being in a strong financial position streamlined the existing train and added diesel power. Pullman was responsible for streamlining all of the cars but the Dining Car and those cars were streamlined in the B&O Railroads own Mt. Clare Shops. The heavyweight-streamlined cars were equipped with full width diaphragms, skirting, and were repainted in the beautiful Blue and Gray paint scheme. The rebuilt heavyweight streamlined CAPITOL LIMITED began service November 23, 1938 between Jersey City and Chicago by way of Washington. From the beginning the heavyweight streamlined CAPITOL LIMITED was assigned new EMC EA-EB passenger diesel units for power. The CAPITOL LIMITED being rebuilt and streamlined from existing heavyweight cars did not offer the number of private rooms offered by the PRR BROADWAY LIMITED or LIBERTY LIMITED but they sure managed to carry more government employees than either of the PRR trains. At that time the government seemed to be more aware of wasteful spending and would only reimburse government employees traveling at government expense for a lower berth. The CAPITOL LIMITED provided 84 sections in each consist.

52 EMC EA 1,800 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

52X EMC EB 1,800 HP Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

CAPITOL GARDEN Baggage 12 Crew Dormitory Buffet 18 seat Lounge Car

ALEXANDER BELL 14 Section Sleeping Car

CLOVER BAY 8 Section 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

CLOVER CREST 8 Section 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

BRADSHAW 12 Section 1 Drawing Room Sleeping Car

1062 VIRGINIA DARE 36 seat Dining Car

LAUREL BRANCH 8 Section 1 Drawing Room 2 Compartment Sleeping Car

CASTLETON 12 Section 1 Drawing Room Sleeping Car

CLOVER HEIGHTS 8 Section 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

CLOVER HOLLOW 8 Section 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

CAPITOL CITY 3 Compartment 1 Drawing Room Buffet 24 seat Solarium Lounge Observation

SECOND CONSIST

51 EMC EA 1,800 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

51X EMC EB 1,800 HP Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

CAPITOL HILL Baggage 12 Crew Dormitory Buffet 18 seat Lounge Car

JOHN ERICSSON 14 Section Sleeping Car

CLOVER LODGE 8 Section 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

CLOVER PARK 8 Section 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

GREEN BANK 12 Sections 1 Drawing Room Sleeping Car

1061 MARGARET BRENT 36 seat Dining Car

GREEN SPRING 12 Section 1 Drawing Room Sleeping Car

GARDEN BROOK 8 Section 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

GARDEN GLEN 8 Section 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

CAPITOL CITY 3 Compartment 1 Drawing Room Buffet 24 seat Solarium Lounge Observation

CMStP&P
AFTERNOON HIAWATHA
(January 21, 1939)
421 miles
By Al

Using nearly identical consists to the HIAWATHA train sets of September, 1938 the new train sets that began service January 21, 1939 between Chicago and the TWIN CITIES were named the AFTER-NOON HIAWATHAS and the earlier two train sets became the MORNING HIAWA-THAS. This at last gave the Milwaukee Road two daily round trip streamlined HIAWATHAS between Chicago – Milwaukee and St. Paul – Minneapolis. Both the CB&Q and Milwaukee Road were then offering twice daily streamlined trains between the Windy City and Twin Cities.

103 ALCO F7 4-6-4 Streamlined Baltic Locomotive and Tender

155 Express 44 seat TIP TOP TAP Tavern Lounge Car

434 52 Revenue seat Coach

445 56 Revenue seat Coach

447 56 Revenue seat Coach

449 56 Revenue seat Coach

111 48 seat Dining Car

SEWALL 24 Revenue seat Parlor Car with 5 seat Parlor Stateroom

MILLER 28 Revenue seat Parlor Beavertail Lounge Observation

SECOND CONSIST

105 ALCO F7 4-6-4 Streamlined Baltic Locomotive & Tender

156 Express Buffet 44 seat TIP TOP TAP Tavern Lounge Car

435 52 Revenue seat Coach

446 56 Revenue seat Coach

448 56 Revenue seat Coach

450 56 Revenue seat Coach

452 56 Revenue seat Coach

112 48 seat Dining Car

WHITTEMORE 24 Revenue seat Parlor Car with 5 seat Parlor Stateroom

MITCHELL 28 Revenue seat Parlor Lounge Beavertail Observation

LV
ASA PACKER
(February 1, 1935)
By Al

The ASA PACKER was not truly a streamliner but instead a series of modernized cars by the Lehigh Valley Railroads own Sayre, Pennsylvania shops. A 4-6-2 Pacific Locomotive and Tender 2023 was shopped and emerged semi streamlined from the Sayre shops to pull the four car train. The new exterior paint scheme applied to the Steam power and cars was Orange and Black. The interiors of the cars were upgraded with new upholstery and repainted at the same time. This new train named the ASA PACKER originally operated a daily round trip between Newark, N. J. and Mauch Chunk, Pennsylvania. Later during the New York World’s Fair of 1939 the train was assigned to a twice-daily round trip service between Mauch Chunk and New York City. For the second round trip the Sayre shops of the Lehigh Valley remodeled and semi streamlined a second 4-6-2 Pacific Locomotive and tender the 2022.

2023 Semi Streamlined 4-6-2 Locomotive & Tender

1052 Heavyweight Baggage 36 Revenue seat Coach

906 Heavyweight 76 Revenue seat Coach

904 Heavyweight 76 Revenue seat Coach

1020 Heavyweight Club Dining Car

SAL
SILVER METEOR
February 2, 1939)
1,525 miles
By Al

The Seaboard Air Line Railway inaugurated a seven car lightweight streamlined Coach train set built by Budd. The new train entered service between New York City and Miami weekly with a New York City – St. Petersburg weekly round trip as well. The new train was named the SILVER METEOR and operated over the PRR between New York and Washington; the SAL diesel took over for the trip over the RF&P between Washington and Richmond where it gained SAL rails for the rest of the trip to either of the Florida destinations. The seven car lightweight streamlined train was built for Coach passengers only, and for the first time offered travelers in Coaches to and from Florida a deluxe streamlined train. The SAL offered the famous all Pullman heavyweight ORANGE BLOSSOM SPECIAL to their first class clientele during winter months between the Northeast and Florida. The new streamlined SILVER METEOR was an instant success with the train solidly booked for all 286 revenue seats. The new train operated a New York – Miami round trip each week followed by a New York – St. Petersburg round trip. The two trips consumed six days to complete leaving one full day for maintenance. This was the first of the popular seven car lightweight streamlined coach trains to enter service. Later other lightweight streamlined Coach trains would come from the Budd Company, Pullman Standard and American Car & Foundry.

6004 EMC E4A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

6000 Baggage 13 Crew Dormitory 22 Revenue seat Coach

6200 60 Revenue seat Coach

6300 30 Revenue seat Coach 30 seat Tavern Lounge Car

6100 48 seat Dining Car

6201 60 Revenue seat Coach

6202 60 Revenue seat Coach

6400 48 Revenue seat Coach 30 seat Lounge Observation

CB&Q
GENERAL PERSHING ZEPHYR
(April 30, 1939)
By Al

The CB&Q GENERAL PERSHING ZEPHYR was inaugurated April 30, 1939 between St. Louis and Kansas City round trip daily. The new train was the last CB&Q train to be powered by a Shovelnose Diesel unit and was also the first lightweight streamlined train owned by the Burlington with no articulated equipment in its consist. The cars and power were of full streamlined car dimensions another first for the CB&Q whose previous lightweight ZEPHYR trains had all been comprised of cars of less than standard streamlined car dimensions. This last Shovelnose Diesel unit was designated a model AA by EMC its builder and was considered a hybrid due to the fact that it was a shovelnose Cab Unit for its first half complete with a new EMC 567 engine developing 1,000 hp. A Baggage Compartment occupied the second half of the EMC AA Shovelnose power unit 9908 SILVER CHARGER where a second EMC 567 should have been located instead. The new service operated from Kansas City with that being the trains base of operations, three months after entering the Kansas City – St. Louis market the train was also called on to operate a daily Kansas City - Lincoln round trip as well. One can only wonder if this is the reason for the Missouri Pacific purchase of the EAGLES later becoming the MISSOURI RIVER EAGLES.

9908 SILVER CHARGER Shovelnose EMC Model AA 1,000 HP Diesel Cab with Baggage Compartment

4705 SILVER LEAF 70 Revenue seat Coach

4706 SILVER EAGLE 52 Revenue seat Coach

301 SILVER STAR 24 seat Dining 22 seat Parlor Lounge Observation

LV
JOHN WILKES
(June 4, 1939)
By Al

The JOHN WILKES was the next so called streamlined train offering from the Lehigh Valley Railroad. Unlike the earlier two Pacific Locomotives semi streamlined for the ASA PACKER the two Pacific Locomotive and Tenders for the JOHN WILKES were fully streamlined to a design by famed industrial designer Otto Kuhler. The two Pacific Locomotives were class K-5 2101 and 2102, after streamlining the two engines and tenders were painted in a Black, Cornell Red with white stripe paint scheme with chrome lettering. The Lehigh Valley initially painted nine heavyweight cars to match but later began a program of painting most cars in the new scheme as they came due for shopping. The JOHN WILKES introduced that June 4, 1939 operated between Pittston and New York round trip daily.

PRR
TRAIL BLAZER
(July 28, 1939)
By Al

The PRR Altoona Shops rebuilt and streamlined a large number of heavyweight coaches and other cars in the spring of 1939 for a new all coach streamliner to operate daily between Chicago and New York. The trains would not receive streamlined steam power until after WW II and then it would be in the form of the T1 4-4-4-4 Locomotives and tenders. These operated between Harrisburg and Chicago outside the electrified zone. The TRAIL BLAZER was initially scheduled for seventeen hours in each direction. Each of the two consists was initially equipped with 68 revenue seat Coaches, a Baggage Buffet 27 seat Lounge Car, a Twin Unit Dining set with one-half having Kitchen and Crew Dormitory space for eighteen. The other half of the twin unit dining car set was a 68 seat Dining Room with a four seat waiting area. Altoona Shops even rebuilt heavyweight cars into 53 seat Lounge Observations that except for window placement resembled those built by Pullman Standard for the 1938 BROADWAY LIMITED and LIBERTY LIMITED. The TRAIL BLAZER often ran eighteen to twenty cars in length with double headed K-4 Pacific Locomotives for power before the postwar T1s came along. The TRAIL BLAZER operated on an overnight schedule.

NYC
PACEMAKER
(July 28, 1939)
By Al

The PACEMAKER was the name assigned to the hastily assembled NYC heavyweight train that entered service the same date the PRR TRAIL BLAZER began service July 28, 1939. When the PRR announced there new overnight coach streamliner between New York and Chicago the NYC was caught completely off guard and was forced to compete with heavyweight trains. The initial schedule for the NYC PACEMAKER was 16 =1/2 hours westbound and 17 hours eastbound. The NYC would not streamline the PACEMAKERS until 1949 when Budd delivered new lightweight streamlined cars and new diesel passenger units arrived from EMD.

TTFN Al

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

Some good encores, train information, Alco comments, etc. this a.m. Thanks to all.

SP Alcos did get off-line every now and then.

When I lived in L&N-land, I used to see SP Centuries running off mileage on L&N trains every now and then. SP used to “grab” L&N power at New Orleans and, as L&N folks told me, “It would disappear into the desert,” only to come back beat to !@#$. Thus, the SP units came to appear on L&N trains. Needless to say, the SP engines were pretty beat up themselves, but the L&N managed to get them over the road.

Power in an around Nashville back in the late 60s and early 70s was a real mix of first and second generation units from EMD, GE and Alco. Mine service was the best place to see Alco road power most of the time on the L&N. I managed to get shots of many different L&N Alcos in and around Cincinnati at the time.

Work safe

[trolleyboy]

Good mornign Cindy. You look as broght and perky chipper as ever. [;)][:D] I'll just take a number three and the supersized mentor coffee today. <ugh> Why does this coffee taste like a squeegy mop Boris !Any how nice morning start today [tup]Looks as though we may turn a profit on the breakfast menu today [tup]

Ted Good to see you this am sir, I had thought that you had fallen in the "drink" with our late lamented chief chef. I hope that MI-6 is takeing the lead as unhappily I think Doyle and Clueless are out of their element on this one. maybe Nick has some to Utah for that concert tour he was talking about back in the fall.

You need to by one of those flying cars that we were told about on TV in the 50's and 60's to get out of all that traffic in Tampa ( we have them don't we [swg][:D] ) That our you need to get one of those "suburban comando" SUV's and take back the raod from all those dump trucks. They are starting to give good prices on them now ( wonder why [?] ) Another job for the inspector eh [?]

CM3 Ahhh Alco's... anyway you slice them pure diesel nirvanna I say. The L&N had quite the fleet, truly one of the biggest supporters of the breed. from FA's to the C420's and big 6's.I think we need more smoky alcio photo's and disscussion around here don't you. Mike [?] No pressure or anything oh urlmeister [swg]

Mike Thanks for the late nite return [tup] I woulodn't want to even imagine what the out come of a PCC vs RR encounter would be like in Philly. I'm sure that the language from such a resulting meet, would add new pages to the english language [:O]

Al Ah yes, I think you and Mike need to sit down and fini***hat book togehter,he's provided the great shots to match your equally great info. It's been agreat partnership fer sure fer sure.

Rob

[LoveDomes]

Good Afternoon Cindy and fellow travelers at the bar!

It is I - the Larsman has returned, but regrettably only for a short visit. Set 'em up on me if you please and I see Boris is about the premises - ring the bell my good man (?) and I'll take a frosty mug of that Keiths Ale that our Cap'n Tom likes so well! [tup]

Haven't taken the time to review all of the pages, but I see that Tom's last comments are back on page 344, right before he and his lady departed for Alaska. Hope they had and are having a great time! [tup] Also haven't looked at the e-mail yet . . . still digging through the stacks of snail mail that piled up during our absence. About the only thing that still looks the 'same' is the fact that my Mets are still in first place! Who wuddathunkit [?] [?] [swg]

Looks like the handful of guys who have been active around here are really keeping things up 'n running - great effort, guys! A five-[tup] Salute to you! [tup] [tup] [tup] [tup] [tup] I'm sure that Our Proprietor will be most pleased to see that his creation is alive 'n well! [yeah]

Got back last night - by plane and we're a bit weary today. It was a long, long day with a change of planes in Chicago. Why? Well, we had originally booked round trip aboard the California Zephyr from Chicago and round trip air from NYC to Chicago. We had to change our travel plans once on the left coast and opted for air travel home. Unfortunately, the airlines would not work with us and insisted on screwing us over on the fares, even made us change planes in Chicago just to keep the original round trip in tact. Awful experience.

Amtrak graciously refunded our rail fare - no problems. Actually, this was the second change to that itinerary and we had no difficulties with them at all.

Amtrak to the left coast was a mixed bag of tricks - riding the train is a treat, but putting up with the sub-par service is not. We had a pleasant journey but things like not having a full bill or fare in the diner, faulty equipment in the bedroom car (not mine! [}:)][:-,] ) and sightseer lounge, attitudes, etc. surely put a damper on what I had hoped would be more than it turned out to be. We decided before arriving at our final destination to cancel the return trip. Just didn't want to put up with same-ole, same-ole again.

Without getting too deep into our personal lives, we have a continuing sadness looming over the horizon in our family. It has been a death imminent situation and that also played into the decision to cut things shorter than planned. So even if Amtrak had been top shelf, we would have returned by plane. Blasted airlines and the manner in which they treat passengers is simply awful. Doesn't matter how much one pays - doesn't matter whether you are 1st class or coach, it's all the same to them. Oh well, it's over and I'm in favor of sticking close to home for quite awhile. [yeah]

I've got quite a bit of catching up to do and am anxious to review all of the pix and narratives regarding the Rendezvous in Toronto! Hope the three of you had a great time - which my guess is you did! - and that all went well with each 'n every aspect of it all! [tup]

One more Keiths you good looking thing you - and I'll take my leave . . .

Until the next time!

Lars

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Gang and nice to have you back Lars. Now we will have a little more help keeping things going til the boss returns. Sorry to hear about your less than enjoyable trip, Am also surprised at the Mets. Kind of remind me of the old days when Dem Bums played in Brooklyn.

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Gang and nice to have you back Lars. Now we will have a little more help keeping things going til the boss returns. Sorry to hear about your less than enjoyable trip, Am also surprised at the Mets. Kind of remind me of the old days when Dem Bums played in Brooklyn.

[West Coast S]

Afternoon all,

CM3, I wasn't aware that the Century's wondered so far from home, you learn something new everyday!! Actually, I last observed them in transfer service at West Colton around 1981, ocassionaly even at this late date, a set would get loose and wonder over Cajon via the Palmdale Cutoff to Mojave for I presume helper duty as they were known to stray as far north as Bakersfield on occasion.

Strange, now that you mention it, this was during the period "of the great unwashed" yet these were scrubbed to within a inch of their life a minor mircle giving Alco's tendency to spray oil and soot about the carbody. I wish I had a photo of the combo I encountered once at West Colton, A century mu'ed with a Southern High Hood GE and a Seaboard SD something and in the trailing position a UP DD35A, extremely exotic to say the least.

Now the Western Pacific's attitude toward the Alco Century is best illustrated by their reaction when the Burlington Northern assigned former SP&S Alco's to service on the Inside Gateway, obligating WP to accept them all the way to Stockon. While on the WP, due to the offset truck king pin design the result was widening of the guage in the canyon. It reached such a head that WP notified BN with the intent to suspend the run through agreement unless EMD locomotives were supplied for these trains, no doubt the negative experience during the Century trials influenced there revulsion to all Alco power.

Rob, The ultimate goal is to restore the Basement Terminal to in service condition as a cultural and transportation museum, it no doubt benifited from historic preservation status, matter of fact some form of light rail might by intergrated on the first floor level, this would restore the orginal trackage arraignment PE orginally had when cars entered and exited through the center of the station lobby.

Now, they dropped the ball when Reynolds Aluminum shut down their rolling mill in Torrance, it was the only surviving complete PE erecting shop, once part of a eleven acre shop complex, it had been resheathed with aluminum siding, hiding the orginal brick construction, bricks fired by the PE itself and are now extremely rare and highly sought. At some point, new doors and windows were installed but overall the structure was remarkably intact and orginal, behind this facade it was discovered the early PE herald with the spread wings had been cast into several headers over the large door and window openings. Reynolds offered it for preservation with no takers, eventually the site was put on the market and purchased by Walmart and we know all to well its ultimate demise.

So how goes the jetlag and flight induced fustration Lovedomes? At least they didn't divert your flight to Kirachi and your luggage to Tokyo!![:(!][:(!] Welcome back...

Ted, ye gasp, ye Mentor Village has been taken over by criminal elements, shocking[:0], i'll remember to lock my doors tonight and stay clear of Mentor Lake for the time being, of course it could be just induced fear among the Village populace, I have good word that Boris's relatives are in town[}:)]. Good graces, what is in the tap tonight[V][?] taste like last nights dishwater mixed with Valvoline...

Dave[8D][8D]

[LoveDomes]

Evening Gents!

Leon I'll take a frosty cold mug of Schaefer if you please while I wait for the left coast game to come up on the big screen TV. Let's go Mets!

I've been slowly getting through the pages - starting from this one and working back works for me! [swg] However at the pace I'm going, it will be some time B4 I catch up. My last post was on page 334 - so I've got a few to check out . . .

So, let's see - I was here for Cap'n Tom's B'day Bash but missed out on Dave's - so a belated [bday] to you, Sir! Also, a belated June 3rd [bday] to our newest Chief Engineer John! [tup] Congrats on both counts (again)!!

During my run through, I haven't seen hide nor hair of Doug for some time . . . he's either tied up in the move, or tied up in a jail somewhere for "taking care of business" with that obnoxious creature living below in the place they are moving from! <grin>

So, we've got a Chief Chef [C=:-)] missing, huh [?] My guess is Nick will show and pick up just where he left off - once he gets breathing time. With Pete over in GB, perhaps he'll be able to spring our Chef loose . . . . this place surely thrives when they are about the premises. [tup]

Sorry guys, but that's about the extent of my comments - other than to say that jet lag hasn't really entered the picture so much as the other things going on. It's been a hectic four weeks at the homefront and I'm hoping to have a bit more time here at the bar once things settle down.

Leon here's a couple of ten spots for a round or two on me! [tup]

Until the next time!

Lars

[wanswheel]

Good evening Lars welcome home to Our Place, 2nd Schaefer's on me if you're having more than one.

Al, of course I can't keep pace, you're all over the map.

Broadway Limited
http://images4.indianahistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/dc012&CISOPTR=10552&REC=1

Seaboard Silver Meteor postcard
http://members.aol.com/dblake7096/vsal.jpg postcard

Silver Meteor ad on boxcar
http://www.nashvillewebreview.com/automat/nashville/popular_buildings/UnionStation/railyard.html

American Locomotive Company vehicles

U-la 4-8-2
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=-62255046&id=55

T-3a 2-10-4
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=990997848&id=56

S4
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=1001486627&id=55

RS3 (I think)
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=37475508&id=55

GP9? and RS3 to the right?
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=-1700731494&id=56

Rob, alco from the green pages, a few tunnels

Mount Royal Tunnel 1913
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=115671866&id=50

Mount Royal Tunnel 1943
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/structures/index_view.cfm?photoid=1044023401&id=37

St. Clair Tunnel
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/structures/index_view.cfm?photoid=46586805&id=36

Fraser River tunnel
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/scenic/index_view.cfm?photoid=33600466&id=44

Morrisey Rock Tunnel
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=55443&id=57

Tunnelvision
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=44564491&id=62

[EricX2000]

Hello all of you! A strong coffee, please! Just stopping by before I have to go to bed. I am still alive but have been busy (at work) including some travelling. No excuse, just telling you why I haven't been back for two and a half weeks. I certainly have a lot of catching up to do and will try to do so before the weekend. At the same time I will learn a lot about Classic Trains! I am impressed how much knowledge there is here. Good evening, I'll se you this weekend!

Eric

[wanswheel]

Good morning and hi Eric

Al, found a few more, including pre-streamlined Broadway loco 3768 near Altoona, Pa., August 19, 1933.
http://photoswest.org/photos/00014251/00014353.jpg

The Pacemaker engine 5450, type 4-6-4, Chicago, August 10, 1939
http://photoswest.org/photos/00013501/00013610.jpg

Another view of same 5450 at Harmon, N.Y., April 16, 1938
http://photoswest.org/photos/00013376/00013421.jpg

The Central's "Rexall Train" engine 2873, type 4-8-2, Denver, June 14, 1936. http://photoswest.org/photos/00013251/00013361.jpg

2 reruns or Encores as we call them here:

ATSF Chief locomotive 3460
http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr4023_santa_fe_chief_1938.jpg

Reading Crusader
http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr4021_reading_railroad_crusader_philadelphia_pa_1938.jpg

And you can be sure if it's Westinghouse its not a GG1
PRR engine 4750 type BLW-WESTHSE 2-C-2 (P5AM) Washington, D.C., August 5, 1936
http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00014329+OP-14329
Mike

[Anonymous]

Welcome home Lars and Eric, it is great to see both of you back in "one piece."[tup] Cindy, please break out that fresh "schlong" of Canadian Bacon on this happy occasion. Both of you will probably notice a precious few, i.e. Rob, Al, CM3, Dave, Wanswheel Mike took up the challenge of "ram rodding" the posts in Cap'n Tom's absence.[tup] X a google. The shocking thing is they managed to, not only, "hold down the Fort" but maintain the superior quality we have grown accustomed to hereabouts.[^] Lars, your unfortunate experience via airlines is verbatim the same as Tom and I experienced to and from the first Rendesvous in Toronto. Ditto for the last AmTrak movement I experienced on the N.E. Corridor.[V] It came down to: "Glad I did it but won't do it again."

As per usual, this a.m. is no different for the "panic post" prior to running the gauntlet. Al, I see the "auto pilot" feature is still engaged and thank heaven's for it. Things would've turned quite desperate without this "force feed" of data. It seems there are more Alco afficandos than any of us realized. Dave S ( I beleive ) opened the flood gates and the deluge continues unabated. More from Cm3 and Dave S this morning with the added "color" of "train spotting" these beasts far from their Road name's origins. That "shot gun" effect of road power was becoming uneventful in the late 70's. Peculiar? Yes, especially the bazaar "lash ups" of one Road's locos to yet another's. This may have been more prevelant in the Mid-West, I'm not sure about farther east and west?

Well, Rob, your advise for something more substantial on the road, short of a Abrams M-1, A-1, is reasonable. I can't think of any other motivation ( survival ) for driving those Hummers and gargantuan SUV's. They are a good defence against the Kamakazis if only to get one to "the pump" where harikeri (sp?) is the only option. We don't wi***o spoil Pete's leave in the U.K. on locating our Cheif [C=:-)] and besides P.I. Doyle prefers working alone. I believe once Juneau is on the case, we may get a "break."[^] Okay Boris, now is the time...I know it's 7:53 a.m. you Cretin...I mean the bell...not the one in Awk's cage...oh, never mind[:(!]

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Gang. Enjoyed the photos from Mike . Sorry if it seems I am jumping all over the place but am actually posting by dates the streamliners entered service.
Time for a cup of coffee and a crumpet from the Mentor Village Bakery.

SOUTHERN
ALABAMA GREAT SOUTHERN
VULCAN
(August 24, 1939)
By Al

The Southern Railway placed a pair of mini streamliners in service between Meridian, Mississippi and Chattanooga, Tennessee daily in each direction. These two unit train sets were the first of six to be owned by the Southern Railway and its subsidiary Alabama Great Southern. They were constructed by St. Louis Car Company and represented the first application of Fairbanks Morse opposed piston diesel engines to see railroad passenger service. The first car of each two car train featured a shovelnose cab with engine room housing the 750 hp F-M diesel and Westinghouse generator that supplied the power for the two traction motors mounted on the forward B truck. Behind the engine room was a 15’ Railway Post Office Compartment and the remainder of the car was occupied by a Baggage room. The trailing coach seated 76 revenue passengers. The power produced by the lead unit was more than ample for an additional car or two if needed.

40 Shovel Nose Cab 750 HP F-M Diesel 15’ Railway Post Office Compartment Baggage Car

MT-40 76 Revenue seat Divided Coach

SECOND CONSIST

41 Shovel Nose Cab 750 HP F-M Diesel 15’ Railway Post Office Compartment Baggage Car

MT-41 76 Revenue seat Divided Coach

SOUTHERN
GOLDENROD
(September 24, 1939)
By Al

A single Southern Railway owned St. Louis Car Company built train set identical to the two built for the VULCAN was placed in service as the GOLDENROD. As the GOLDENROD it was assigned to operate a daily round trip between Birmingham and Mobile with major stops at Bessemer, Selma, Kimbrough, and Calvert beginning September 24, 1939.

1 Shovel Nose Cab 750 HP F-M Diesel 15’ Railway Post Office Compartment

MT-1 76 Revenue seat Divided Coach

C&NW
400
(September 24, 1939)
419 miles
By Al

The C&NW was at last able to compete with rivals CB&Q and Milwaukee Road beginning September 24, 1939 with the introduction of the diesel powered streamlined 400s. These two Pullman Standard built streamlined consists were powered by a pair of EMC E3A units each operating back to back with a combined horsepower of 4,000. The C&NW lightweight streamlined 400s were excellent competition for the CB&Q TWIN ZEPHYRS and Milwaukee Road MORNING HIAWATHAS and AFTERNOON HIAWATHAS. The C&NW would only ever operate this single daylight streamliner in each direction versus the competitions two daily streamliners in each direction. Later the C&NW would change the name of the 400s to TWIN CITIES 400s when other 400 routes and trains entered service. The new trains were painted a Yellow with Green Letter board scheme with Aluminum lettering.

5001A EMC E3A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

5001B EMC E3A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

7500 Baggage 16 seat TIP TOP TAP Tavern 10 seat lunch Counter 10 seat Lounge Car

3410 56 Revenue seat Coach

3412 56 Revenue seat Coach

3414 56 Revenue seat Coach

3400 48 Revenue seat Coach with Stewardess Room

6950 56 seat Dining Car

6500 22 Revenue seat Parlor Car with 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room

6502 22 Revenue seat Parlor Car with 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room

6504 22 Revenue seat Parlor Car with 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room

7200 12-revenue seat Parlor Bar 20 seat Lounge 9 seat Lounge Observation

SECOND CONSIST

5002A EMC E3A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

5002B EMC E3A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

7501 Baggage 16 seat TIP TOP TAP Tavern 10 seat Lunch Counter 10 seat Lounge Car

3411 56 Revenue seat Coach

3413 56 Revenue seat Coach

3415 56 Revenue seat Coach

3401 48 Revenue seat Coach with Stewardess Room

6951 56 seat Dining Car

6501 22 Revenue seat Parlor Car with 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room

6503 22 Revenue seat Parlor Car with 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room

6505 22 Revenue seat Parlor Car with 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room

7201 12 Revenue seat Parlor Bar 20 seat Lounge 9 seat Lounge Observation

SOUTHERN
JOE WHEELER
(September 29, 1939)
By Al

Another single set of the two-car train sets from St. Louis Car Company built for the Southern Railway entered service on September 29, 1939. This train was named the JOE WHEELER and entered service round trip daily between Oakdale and Tuscumbia.

2 Shovel Nose Cab 750 HP F-M Diesel 15” Railway Post Office Baggage Car

MT-2 76 Revenue seat Divided Coach

SOUTHERN
CRACKER
(October 11, 1939)
By Al

The final pair of Southern owned two car train sets entered service on October 11, 1939 between Atlanta and Brunswick, Georgia by way of Macon. The train sets would only operate over the entire route for six months when service between Macon and Atlanta was dropped. Thereafter the two car trains offered twice daily round trip service between Macon and Brunswick with connecting train service beyond Macon to Atlanta.

3 Shovel Nose Cab 750 HP F-M 15’ Railway Post Office Baggage Car

MT-3 76 Revenue seat Divided Coach

SECOND CONSIST

4 Shovel Nose Cab 750 HP F-M 15’ Railway Post Office Baggage Car

MT-4 76 Revenue seat Divided Coach

NYC
MERCURY
(November 12, 1939)
By Al

The NYC Beech Grove Shops rebuilt another series of old heavyweight cars into another streamlined MERCURY consist this time with eleven cars. Although the actual consist for this MERCURY would only be ten cars, the extra car a 56 revenue seat Coach number 1009 was assigned to the 1936 consist of the MERCURY. This gave the NYC two ten car MERCURY consists. The second MERCURY permitted the NYC to extend MERCURY service to Chicago – Detroit as well as the original Cleveland – Detroit. In actual fact beginning November 12, 1939 one MERCURY train set departed from Cleveland and one from Chicago each morning and after lengthy layovers in Detroit proceeded to the opposite terminal from there starting terminal. In actual fact it was like the NYC was operating two separate trains completely one a Chicago - Detroit train the other a Cleveland - Detroit train. Power for the new train was the NYC 4-6-4 Hudson Locomotive and Tender 5344 the former COMMODORE VANDERBILT with a new streamlined shroud applied that more closely resembled the streamlined shrouding applied to the J3 Hudson Locomotives assigned to the TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED. The 5344 held down the Chicago – Detroit part of the run and the two older Pacific Locomotives operated between Cleveland and Detroit.

5344 NYC J class Streamlined 4-6-4 Hudson Locomotive & Tender

1007 Baggage 52 revenue seat Coach

1008 60 Revenue seat Coach

1010 56 Revenue seat Coach

1011 56 Revenue seat Coach

1012 56 Revenue seat Coach

1013 22 Revenue seat Coach Kitchen Car

1014 62 seat Dining Car

1016 MICHIGAN 31 seat Lounge Buffet Car

1018 GREENFIELD VILLAGE 25 Revenue seat Parlor Car

1020 CHICAGO 26 Revenue seat Parlor 10 seat Lounge Observation

CRI&P
ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET
(November 12, 1939)
1,151 miles
By Al

Running west from Chicago on the same date November 12, 1939 that the NYC MERCURY departed eastbound from Chicago the Rock Island inaugurated a new Diesel powered ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET. Actually the new train required two sets of equipment with one eastbound each night and the other westbound each night in order to provide daily service in each direction. The new ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET was a double destination train at its western end serving both Denver and Colorado Springs from Chicago. The train split at Limon, Colorado westbound in the mornings and was reassembled at the same point in the afternoons for the return overnight run to Chicago. Both Budd and Pullman Standard manufactured equipment for the seven car ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKETS in stainless steel finish. Budd constructed the new ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKETS Baggage Cars, Railway Post Office 44 seat Coach combinations, 52 revenue seat Coaches, and the 32 seat dining 16 seat lounge Cars. Pullman Standard constructed the four sleeping cars and two sleeping Lounge Observations. Power for the new streamliners was a single EMC E3A unit developing 2,000 hp between Chicago and Denver. The Rock Island assigned a steam locomotive initially to the Limon – Colorado Springs section. Two cars the 30’ Railway Post Office 44 revenue seat Coach combination and the 8 Section 2 compartment 2 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car were through Chicago – Colorado Springs cars. Later as the size of the ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET trains increased the Rock Island would order custom built B units with a cab and Baggage compartment from EMD to power the Colorado Springs Section from Limon to Colorado Springs and back. These units were operated through to and from Chicago as the second unit in the ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET trains. These EMD AB units as they were known began service in June 1940 at the same time the Rock Island added a Kansas City – Denver section to the ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET. These cars were coaches 308 DREAM LAKE operating with Pullman Pool 10 Roomette 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car CASCADE MILLS in one direction nightly and Coach 311 JAMES PEAK operating with Pullman Pool 10 Roomette 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car CASCADE SHOALS. The two CASCADE Pullman Pool sleeping cars were soon replaced by Rock Island 8 Section 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars FOREST CANYON, and THOMPSON CANYON delivered by Pullman Standard in November 1940. The Kansas City cars joined the westbound ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET at Belleville, Kansas having operated as a separate train from Kansas City. Eastbound the ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET set out the Kansas City cars at Belleville to be forwarded as a separate train from that point. The eastbound Kansas City sleeping car space was sold as Parlor car space as the ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET operated as a daytime schedule to that point. The nightly westbound sleeper space was sold as sleeper space. The Rock Island never able to compete with the Union Pacific on the Kansas City – Denver run dropped the Kansas City section of the ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET in September 1943.

EMC E3A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

850 Baggage Express Car

375 MESA VERDE 30’ Railway Post Office 44 Revenue seat Coach (Chicago – Colorado Springs)

309 BEAR LAKE 52 Revenue seat Coach

420 MOUNT EVANS 32 seat Dining 16 seat Lounge Car

650 ODESSA LAKE 10 Section 4 Roomette Sleeping Car

610 GARDEN OF THE GODS 8 Section 2 Compartment 2 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Chicago – Colorado Springs)

476 PHANTOM VALLEY 5 Double Bedroom Buffet 26 seat Lounge Observation

SECOND CONSIST

626 EMC E3A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

851 Baggage Express Car

376 PIKES PEAK 30’ Railway Post Office 44 Revenue seat Coach (Colorado Springs – Chicago)

310 LONGS PEAK 52 Revenue seat Coach

421 CENTENNIAL 32 seat Dining 16 seat Lounge Car

651 LAWN LAKE 10 Section 4 Roomette Sleeping Car

611 GRAND MESA 8 Section 2 Compartment 2 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Colorado Springs – Chicago)

477 THUNDER MOUNTAIN 5 Double Bedroom Buffet 26 seat Lounge Observation

ACL-FEC
CHAMPION
(December 1, 1939)
1,095 miles
By Al

On the first of December 1939 the Atlantic Coast Line and Florida East Coast Railroads launched their response to the Seaboard Airline Railroads SILVER METEOR the new CHAMPION. The new seven car streamliners were for daily operation between New York City and Miami with the FEC owning one consist and the ACL owning the other two. These three stainless steel train sets built by Budd were very similar to that built for the SAL SILVER METEOR. The ACL train sets had a purple letter board while the FEC set was stainless steel only. The PRR provided the power and tracks between New York and Washington. Between Washington and Richmond the tracks of the RF&P were used. The FEC EMD E3A and ACL EMD E6A units operated from Washington to Miami. The double track high speed main line of the ACL was used between Richmond and Jacksonville, and between Jacksonville and Miami the FEC tracks were used. The two EMD E6A units for the two ACL consists were numbered 501 and 502. The single FEC EMD E3A was numbered 1002. The FEC cars were named while the ACL owned cars were numbered only except for the Dining cars that carried names.

FEC
1002 EMC E3A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

NEW SMYRNA Baggage 12 crew Dormitory 14 Revenue seat Coach

BOCA RATON 60 Revenue seat Coach

VERO BEACH 52 Revenue seat Coach with Stewardess Quarters

FORT PIERCE 48 seat Dining Car

COCOA ROCKLEDGE 60 Revenue seat Coach

POMPANO 60 Revenue seat Coach

BAY BISCAYNE 32 seat Tavern Lounge Bar 21-seat Lounge Observation

ACL
501 EMD E6A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

100 Baggage 12 Crew Dormitory 14 Revenue seat Coach

200 60 Revenue seat Coach

206 52 Revenue seat Coach with Stewardess Quarters

NEW YORK 48 seat Dining Car

202 60 Revenue seat Coach

204 60-revenue seat Coach

250 32 seat Tavern Lounge Bar 21-seat Lounge Observation

ACL
502 EMD E6A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

101 Baggage 12 crew Dormitory 14 Revenue seat Coach

201 60 Revenue seat Coach

207 52 Revenue seat Coach with Stewardess Quarters

PHILADELPHIA 48 seat Dining Car

203 60 Revenue seat Coach

205 60 Revenue seat Coach

251 32 seat Tavern Lounge Bar 21-seat Lounge Observation

FEC
HENRY M. FLAGLER
(December 3, 1939)
By Al

The HENRY M. FLAGLER named for the FEC Railroads founder and probably Florida’s most prominent citizen was the name given to the Florida East Coast Railways other streamlined seven-car train from Budd. The HENRY M. FLAGLER was assigned to operate a daily round trip between Miami and Jacksonville. The HENRY M. FLAGLER train set was very similar to the FEC set in CHAMPION service. The FEC assigned a single EMC E3A unit as power 1001 lettered for the HENRY M. FLAGLER. Between Miami and Jacksonville the HENRY M. FLAGLER stopped at Hollywood, Ft. Lauderdale, West Palm Beach, Daytona Beach, and St. Augustine.

1001 EMC E3A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

STUART Baggage 22 Revenue seat Coach

HOBE SOUND 60 Revenue seat Coach

DELRAY BEACH 52 Revenue seat Coach with Stewardess Room

FORT LAUDERDALE 48 seat Dining Car

HOLLYWOOD 60 Revenue seat Coach

MELBOURNE 60 Revenue seat Coach

LAKE WORTH 32 seat Tavern Lounge Bar 21-seat Lounge Observation

SL-SF
FIREFLY
(December 3, 1939)
By Al

The St. Louis – San Francisco Railway better known as the FRISCO inaugurated a pair of 3 car stream-lined trains constructed in their own Springfield shops from heavyweight cars and a pair of 4-6-2 Pacific Locomotives streamlined to provide the power for the FIREFLYS. The new FIREFLYS were assigned to daily Tulsa – Kansas City service operating in each direction daily. The Frisco streamlined seven cars for the two trains the extra one being a spare coach.

1026 Streamlined 4-6-2 Pacific Locomotive & Tender

83 Baggage 15’ Railway Post Office 18 seat Coach Combination

754 62 Revenue seat Coach

1502 24-seat Dining 10 Revenue seat Parlor Car

SECOND CONSIST

1031 Streamlined 4-6-2 Pacific Locomotive & Tender

82 Baggage 15’ Railway Post Office 18 seat Coach Combination

752 62 Revenue seat Coach

1501 24-seat Dining 10 Revenue seat Parlor Car

AT&SF
TULSAN
(December 10, 1939)
By Al

The TULSAN is the name the Santa Fe gave to their new train between Kansas City and Tulsa daily to compete with the new Frisco FIREFLY. The TULSAN was made up of heavyweight and lightweight cars both, with the last two cars in the trains consist through cars beyond Kansas City to and from Chicago. These cars traveled in the CHICAGOAN eastbound from Kansas City and returned to the waiting TULSAN westbound by the KANSAS CITYAN. For the TULSAN power was any available diesel or steam with no particular unit regularly assigned. The through cars were the 3109 a 52 seat Coach with 3241 a 32 seat Parlor Observation eastbound one day and westbound the next. On opposite days the cars were the 52 seat Coach 3112 with 3242 the other 32 seat Parlor Observation. These cars were originally assigned as through Chicago – Oklahoma City cars on the CHICAGOAN and KANSAS CITYAN.

SAL
SILVER METEOR
(December 23, 1939)
1,525 miles
By Al

On December 23, 1939 two days before Christmas the Seaboard Air Line Railroad inaugurated daily SILVER METEOR service with the addition of two new seven car consists joining the earlier consist of February, 1939. The SAL received three additional cars to maintain a weekly service between New York and St. Petersburg. The three cars that traveled through from New York to St. Petersburg every third day were a 48 seat Dining Car number 6103 and two 60 revenue seat Coaches 6206 and 6207. The PRR provided three 60 revenue seat Coaches to the SILVER METEOR pool of cars numbers 4015-4017. Budd, with EMC supplying two E4A units for the trains built the cars for the two additional SILVER METEOR train sets.

3012 EMC E4A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

6001 Baggage 13 Crew Dormitory 22 seat Coach

6203 60 Revenue seat Coach

6301 30 Revenue seat Coach 30 seat Tavern Lounge Car

6101 48 seat Dining Car

6205 60 Revenue seat Coach

4015 (PRR) 60 Revenue seat Coach

6401 48 Revenue seat Coach 24 seat Lounge Observation

SECOND CONSIST

3013 EMC E4A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

6002 Baggage 13 Crew Dormitory 22 seat Coach

6204 60 Revenue seat Coach

6302 30-revenue seat Coach 30 seat Tavern Lounge Car

6102 48 seat Dining Car

4016 (PRR) 60 Revenue seat Coach

4017 (PRR) 60 Revenue seat Coach

6402 48 Revenue seat Coach 24 seat Lounge Observation

TTFN Al

[LoveDomes]

Good Morning Cindy and fellow travelers at the bar!

What a beautiful day, not speaking of the weather around these parts though! The mets won again! They surely are lookin' good - just gotta restrain myself until the All Star break - that's the real test of a predictable winnAH as far as I'm concerned. [yeah]

Special hello's to Ted - Mike 'n Al [tup] You guys have really been keeping "it" all together - and of course cannot leave out our resident vampire, Count Robulla! [swg] Good job guys! [tup] Once our leader returns, my guess is that he'll be most pleased and somewhat surprised at the momentum here at the bar. Oh yes, it IS YOU Cindy my deaAH! <ooooooooooooh>

The Mrs. and I are still grinning over that post by Coalminer3 "I'm not Shane" - what's-his-face - CM3 and the snake story! Really a knee slapper, for sure! [tup] Lots of great stuff coming out of those "hillls" in WVA these days! [swg] Good morning to you too, Sir CM3!

[wow] That pix spread of Tom's of the Toronto Rendezvous is simply amazing! I've gotten through the 70-pix offering of "day 2" and haven't made it yet to "day 1," but I'm surely looking forward to it. Like the looks of that "gin mill" you guys found and looks just like the kind of place this group would appreciate! [tup] Especially enjoyed the descriptions provided by Rob and that accounting of the Victoria Cross recipient is simply heart rendering - thanx to Rob 'n Mike! [tup]

Nice to see Eric back for a bit and I gather he's been away for awhile. The important thing is to stop by when time permits - that surely beats the disappearing acts we've experienced, huh [?]

I'm going to try and resume my "normal" afternoon" time slot in a day or two - probably by Monday. Still have many personal thngs to attend to and of course the "honey do list" continues to grow! [swg]

Set up the OJ on me and ring the gong, Boris!

So, when does the boss return [?]

Until the next time!

Lars

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. Let’s play “Granny, Does Your Dog Bite?” for our first selection followed by “Frog in the Well,” and “Hell on the Wabash.” All good Civil War tunes.

REALLY enjoyed the CV pictures today. The CV diesel roster changed constantly as locomotives were r# and/or swapped among the Grand Trunk, Canadian National, and Duluth, Winnipeg and Pacific. I never knew what I would find on trips to White River Jct., New London, or St. Albans. Therefore, a few add-on notes to them may be in order. With apologies to the non-tech folks out there, here goes.

First off, the picture of the CV GP9 and the RS3 at St. Albans has a real interesting locomotive at the end of the line: a Canadian National “C” Liner. These were used to power freights below St. Albans.

3901 was one of a pair of RS3s owned by the CV. She was originally CV 1860 and was r#3901 in 1957, later sent to the CN, and retired in 1968.

The picture of CV 1859 fills out the pair. She was r#3900 in 1957 and later sent to the CN, and retired in 1973.

CV 8015, the lovely Alco S4 in the photo, was r#8162 in 1957, then sent to the GT and retired in 1973.

One last note. If the picture of CV 703 was taken in 1928, she was virtually new as all of the CV Class T3a 2-10-4s were blt. in 1928.

Al. Thanks for information on the Southern “back alley line” trains. These are something you don’t hear about too often. Also enjoyed the ASLSF and CRI&P items as well.

Seeing the car name “Joe Wheeler” brought to mind a story about him. He had been a Confederate general, but later served in the U.S. Army, and fought in the Spanish American War. While involved in action against the enemy during that conflict he was heard to yell, “Come on boys, we’ve got the !@#$ Yankees on the run!” Old habits die hard, I guess.

Dave – The SP Alco spottings in Nashville were in 1970 and 1971. SP stuff also showed up on the C&O (Chessie, whatever) at Russell, KY in the late 70s and early 80s.

B4 I forget, greetings to Rob and Theodorebear.

Also welcome back to Lars and Eric.

One last comment. Mergers, much as we like or dislike them, back in the day made for some most interesting power sightings. The coming of Conrail was a case in point as Reading power, for example, appeared in Boston. However, back a few years ago, the L&N got involved with mergermania which resulted in the virtual overnight appearance of Monon and C&EI power (in original paint, yet!) in Nashville. C&O GP30s showed up there every so often as well. This was different than run through power.

Also, roads such as the Bangor and Aroostook commonly leased power which is why their motors appeared on the PRR in places such as Cleveland. As Casey once said, “You could look it up.”

This sort of stuff is common nowadays, although I still do a doubletake at solid UP consists running along the old NYC.

Work safe

[trolleyboy]

Good morning Cindy my dear. You seem a bit busy this morning [tup] The return of someof the renfiorcements will do that. Anywho a number 3 and a BK "speacial" coffee [:D]

Lars [#welcome] back my son. It will be good to have our afternoonman back ( Cindy ) won't nap as much now [:)].I'm sorry to hear of your bad luck with the airlines.Seems indicative of the industry now [tdn]. As Ted said both he and Tom had their moments with the airlines to and from TO,Tom's to the point that he's contemplating not travelling "Scare Canada " anymore.It was unfiortunate that your rail adventures didn't seem much better, at least for the moment VIA is still giving decent service. Ask Tom about our lady Conductor on our run into Toronto sometime [;)]

Doug's actually in the throws of moving to his temp residence, and is short a computer connection at the moment. We were hoping that he may make it back on this week sometime. Time shall tell.
Eric Glad that you made it back sir [tup] Hopefully you can get back in more regularly,the more the merrier around here I say.

Dave @#$&* Walmart leave it to them toscrew up a perfectly good building, there ougth to be a law. Sounds like something they are trying to pull up hear. The city of Guelph does not want them yet they are forcing themselves on the city.They wanted this downtown spot near an old monestary. the Monks don't want them there and have taken it back to court. The city has offered them another location but they won't accept it so even though the case is in front of tthe court they habve started building. Chances are they will loose and will have to tear down. that would look good on them. Canadian regulations at least have not allowed them to run roughshot up here yet.

That sounded like quite the consist of power on that train, it is too bad they you were unable to save it for postreity on a roll of 35mm film.

Al Great info as always, thanks for continuing to float our boat here [tup]

Mike The shots from the CV/GT were the cats hind end sir. and CM3's descriptions were right on so it made them all the better [tup] You are doing a good job keeping up with the 20 fingered one as far as url photo's to match the posts [tup]

CM3 Thanks for throwing out the descriptions of Mikes shots. I'm glad that most of us take a peek at them. it's quite a bit of work to track all those down for us. Gotta love those T1's thouhg don't you ?

Ted Fair enough , I shall let you keep in touch with the search teams, hopefully we can ferret sir Nick out from wence he hides. Likely with several girlz atached I'm sure. [:O] BTW that "schlong" of bacan was supposed to be saved till Tom made it back in next week. Oh well I'll have to order more. You did bring out the Candian one and not the Carpathian one though right[?] [:O]

If you want , you might still be able to buy a Centurian tank from the DnD up here. At least they are diesel powered. Might have holes in them thouhg as they are uesed as targets now [xx(]


Rob

[trolleyboy]

ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

This classic steam / passenger's arrived one track one for the first time on page 170
Please enjoy again

Rob


Classic CNR Steam #4 Passenger and Mixed Trains to Niagara Falls


These are the passenger and mixed trains that called on Niagara Falls Ontario in the mid to late 50's. As layed out by Ian Wilson's Steam to The Niagara Frontier.


Number 86

Hamilton to Niagara Falls section of number 83. Modified schedule on sunday's.
Cars off number 83 in Hamilton formed consist of train 86. Engine came off of number 95 from Niagara Falls. Usually a stream lined 6400 or a 6200 class northern.

Number 87 and 84

Fastnight mail train Toronto to Niagara Falls . Did not officially handle passengers: not listed in the public timetable.Most express to Hamilton came in on 87, by the caar load. About 90% , if not all express to Niagara Falls came in on 84. Circa december 1957, carried storage car of box baggage or refridgerator type for Hamilton and Hamilton transfer mail, set off in Hamilton and returned on No. 108. circa may 17 1956 at least one (each) Toronto-St Catharines and Toronto-Niagara Falls express reefers, carried mail in authorized space in baggage car between Hamilton and Niagara Falls. At Merriton , the switcher removed at least one express car from 84 and set it behind the station for unloading and transfer to NS&T Red Onion. The consist of train 84 at Niagara falls wa used to make up numbers 95 and 91. Usually powered by a Bullet Nosed betty until mid 1954. After which older mountains or 6400 class streamilined mountain or older Northerns became the norm. Engine would return on afternoon local 91-92

Number 89-90

Toronto to Niagara Falls leg of over night Maple Leaf CN-LV train to New York city. Normal consist was a LV baggage/smoker two LV pullman cars ( for Philadelphia and New York),CN coaches and parlour cars to Niagara Falls,and LV coach to New York.carried mail in authorized space in baggage car between Toronto and Suspension bridge . Normal power was any variety of Northern or Mountain, with the occastional Hudson. Engine returned to Toronto next morning on 93-94

Number 91-92

Daily afternoon local passenger train,Niagara falls to Toronto. Normal power was a bullet nose betty ( mountain type 6060 series ) , occastionally a northern.Return movement for engine on night train 87/187 - 84/184. Cirac may 17 1956 carried Hamilton/ Toronto express reefer. Did not carry mail,except in baggage during Christmas season.

Number 93-94

Niagara Falls to Toronto leg of overnight Maple Leaf from New York city.Engine was off train 89-90. RPO worked between Toronto and Niagara Falls on 83-86 & 93-94. Discharged mail on the fly at Beamsville. Normal consist out of Niagara Falls was RPO LV baggage/smoker , two LV sleepers(pullmans) , CN coaches and parlour car from Niagara Falls and LV coach.Extra express cars on some days. Power was off of 89-90.


Number 95

Niagara Falls to Hamilton section of number 6. Carried mail in authorized space in baggage car between Niagara Falls and Hamilton. normallt powered by a Pacific assigned to Niagara Falls ( until april or may 1956 )After that time ,powered by engine off train 102.

Number 101-102

Daily passenger train, Toronto to Niagara Falls. Heavy with head end cars. Carried RPO ( not on Sundays ) . Also carried mail in authorized space in baggage car between Toronto and suspension bridge. discharged mail on the fly at Grimsby Beach and Vineland. Circa may 17 1956,carried Toronto - Hamilton express reefer. Consist included parlour car amd Montreal sleeper ( pff number 17 at Toronto ); this equiment returned on train 107-108. normal power was bullet nosed betty untill mid 1955,then streamlined northern ( 6400's ). Engine returned to Toronto on 107/108

Mixed Train 218

Originally Stratford- Fort Erie mixed trains aperating as M218-M219,engine making two-day round trip out from Stratford. Express cars were lifted by M218 at places such as Caledonia,Dunnville,St Thomas. On most days , there was a CN reefer behind the tender on arrival at Fort Erie. On the trip home M219 lifted an express reefer of fish at Dunnville,which was handed to M238 at Caledonia for furtherance to New york city via train 90 from Hamilton. On the trip home M219 luifted express casr at Brantford. Effective april 27 1958 , trains operated between Stratford and Brantford as M218/M219 while former London-Fort Erie way freights 510/511 were modified to run between London and Brantford as 510/511 and between Brantford and Fort Erie as M220/M217.Until early 1957.regular power was a light pacific assigned to Stratford, after which Stratford assigned Mikado's took over. From april 1958 onward,Stratford assigned Mikados handled trains between Stratford and Brantford and Mimico assigned Northerns handled trains between London and Fort Erie.Steam last used on this train in april 1959.

Fort Erie Race Trains

Passenger extras Toronto to Fort Erie and return during the racing season ( spring and summer ). Consist made up of buffer ( non passenegr carriing car ), parlour car and sufficient best available coaches. No stops on Oakville subdivision west of sunnyside. Stopped briefly at Welland in both directions.Returned immediatly following last race. any suitable passenger power was used including Northerns mountains hudsons or heavy pacifics.

Picnic Trains

Anual picnic trains for big industries in the Hamilton area, went to Crystal Beach. Passengers were dropped at the beach,then engine went to Fort Erie to turn. Picnoc trains used commuter coaches laying over. again any suitable passenger power was used.enjoy Rob

[trolleyboy]

ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

Another encore for this am. This is a forgotton member of my Classic Diesels section. Found quite be accident as I read Tom's page 170 summery and saw it noted there. Sooo the lost is found again, and is now noted for future reference as well. In the end folks read the summeries[tup]
Rob

CLASSIC DIESELS # 29 THE LAGGAN SUB


Tom I'll join al in that CR I'm feeling abit more awake now.Here's a speed chart from the CPR Pacific Region Laggan Subdivision. Time Table 83 which was in effect starting 24:01 sunday October 30th 1960 All times etc are Mountain Standard Time.

Laggan Subdivision Foot Notes and Speacial Instructions

Permanent Slow Orders/Location Permissable speeds Pass Frieght
mileage 0.0 to 5.0 (on curves ) ........................................................... 45mph..40mph
mileage 5.0 to 2.0 (on curves ) ........................................................... 50mph..45mph
mileage12.0 to 16.6 " ............................................................ 45mph..40mph
" 16.6 to 16.9 " ............................................................ 35mph..30mph
" 16.9 to 28.5 " ............................................................ 45mph..40mph
" 28.5 to 29.0 " ............................................................ 45mph..40mph
" 30.0 to 36.0 " ............................................................. 50mph..45mph
" 36.0 to 51.6 " ............................................................. 60mph..45mph
" 51.6 to 54.0 " .............................................................. 50mph..45mph
" 54.0 to 57.0 " .............................................................. 45mph..40mph
" 57.0 to 61.0 " ............................................................... 50mph..45mph
" 61.0 to 62.0 " ............................................................... 30mph..30mph
" 62.0 to 77.0 " ............................................................... 50mph..45mph
" 77.0 to 79.0 " ............................................................... 45mph..40mph
" 79.0 to 88.0 " ............................................................... 40mph..40mph
" 81.9 to 82.1 Passing Bamf station & grade crossings........ 20mph..20mph
" 88.0 to 92.3 ( on curves ) ................................................................ 50mph..45mph
" 92.3 to 94.2 " ................................................................ 45mph..40mph
" 94.2 to 104.0 " ................................................................. 50mph..45mph
" 104.0 to 112.0 " ................................................................. 60mph..45mph
" 112.0 to 121.0 " .................................................................. 40mph..40mph
" 121.0 to 122.2 " ................................................................... 30mph..30mph
" 122.0 to 125.0 " ................................................................... 30mph..20mph
" 125.0 to 136.6 " ................................................................... 25mph..20mph

Yard limits Calgary extend to yard limit sign west of Sunlta.
Yard limits Kieth extend to yard limit sigen east of Robertson
westward trains must obtain terminal clearance at Calgary and may leave sunalta without clearance.
Trains between Calgary and Sunalta,will be goverened by Terminals Timetable page 9.Times shown at Calgary are for information only.
Eastward trains holding main track for meets on westward trains at Cathedral must stop for clearance sign located 650 feet west of east switch.
The switching lead of the east end of exshaw yard must NOT be used as a meeting for passing trains.Trains MUST enter and leave the exshaw siding by use of turnout immediatly west of bridge mileage 57.0. The position of the siding switch is normal when set for switching lead.


This is taken from the Nick Morants Canada book.

Rob