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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 12, 2023 1:29 AM

What is now the Cottage Grove station of the Chicago Transit Authority.  It may have had a different name during CRT "L" days. It is the terminal of the eastern branch of the Southside Elevated.   The yard there gave storage mid-day between rush hours  for North Shore equipment.  This practice continued even after passenger service was cut back to Roosevelt Rd., sometime during the 1930s.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, October 11, 2023 10:15 AM

Question as requested:  What was the southernmost point served by the Chicago North Shore &Milwaukee?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 5, 2023 5:36 AM

Absolutely correct.  Also, the joinht AT&SF - D&RGW trains, AT&SF only Raton - Pueblo, then joint Pueblo - Colorasdo Springs - Denver, occasionally handled RI cars between Colorado Springs and Denver, when passenger counts to-and-from Denver and to-and-from the Springs required shifting a coaches and/or sleepers, with the D&RGW doing the job for less than what the cost to RI would have been (or possibly much less time) to shift via Limon.

My riding all these services in the 60s was do to work on a Denver church, the Air Force Academy Chapel, and the Broadmore Hotel's Activities Center.  And my sister Lillian lived in Aroura, my niece Carol in Denver

CSS's questions are invariacly interesting, and I look forward  to his next, 

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, October 4, 2023 11:19 AM

Making things more interesting for travelers, the Rocket used the D&RGW station in both directions, the Zephyr cars (riding the Royal Gorge) arrived at the D&RGW station southbound, departed from the AT&SF station about 7/8 of a mile away northbound.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, October 4, 2023 10:13 AM

The answer is the "Denver Zephyr".  Through cars to Colorado Springs were forwarded by D&RGW from Denver.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, October 3, 2023 1:17 PM

Not leaving the general area, The Rock Island's Rocky Mountain Rocket served both Denver and Colorado Springs  directly from Chicago, both sleepers and coaches. What was the competition?

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, October 3, 2023 7:18 AM

The Burlington's Fast Mail carried RPO and storage mail to the Union Pacific connection at Council Bluffs.  In later years it was combined with the Nebraska Zephyr, the long, heavy train trailed by the NZ's articulated train sets, with the mail cars backed into Union Station aas passengers boarded. The NZ ran as a separate train eastbound.  Because the mail traffic was much heavier westbound, most of the eastbound cars were carried in freight trains.

As on other railroads, the Fast Mail was about the hottest thing out there.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, October 3, 2023 12:45 AM

Nebraska Zephyr?

Aksarben Zephyr?

One of which was combined with  "California Service" three times a week in late 1969 or in1970, which did contine to Denver and the Rio Grande Zephyr initiallly to Ogden but then only Salt Lakr City and Van or taxi connection bto Ogden --- up to Amtrak in 1971. 

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, October 2, 2023 6:55 PM

The train only ran to Omaha...

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 2, 2023 1:10 PM

Then the railroad is either the CB&Q or the RI, but the RI did not really compete with the UP and even relied on trackage riughts on the UP to reach Denver, with its own main terminating at Colorado Springs.

The  CZ  was not the CB&Q's signature train, as was the DZ, so the DZ must be it.

I do know that the Q did handle a lot of mail west from Chicago.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, October 1, 2023 1:09 PM

The railroad I'm looking for competed directly with UP to points further west than Omaha.

The train #15 was later combined with ran as train #11 until the mail contract was lost. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 1, 2023 8:43 AM

Illinois Central 

Land-o-Corn

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, September 27, 2023 7:30 AM

I wasn't a railroad normally associated with the Overland route.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, September 27, 2023 3:14 AM

Overland Limited?

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, September 24, 2023 5:12 PM

This railroad's train 15 carried much of the mail to Union Pacific at Council Bluffs.  The train was later combined with one of the railroad's signature trains.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, September 23, 2023 2:32 PM

Good.  O&CB used the same system.  Next question.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, September 22, 2023 12:24 PM

The brake on the TARS/O&CB cars is pedal-operated.  When the pedal is up the brakes are fully applied.  Brakes are released when the pedal is fully depressed.  Since the brakes are self-lapping the pedal position controls the amount of braking in effect.  Doors are push-button operated, and won't open unless the car is stopped.  The reverser position controls which doors open.  The controller is an otherwise-standard K-35 with an LB-2A line switch for start-stop control without pulling an arc on the K controller fingers.  When the brakes are applied, the line switch cuts out regardless of the controller position.

TARS 631 has no control for a reed-type switch contactor.  I suspect TARS used isolated sections of the conduit rail as contactor segments.  It's also possible the controls were removed during the car's time in Vienna.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, September 21, 2023 11:55 AM

631 us  third asvenue tranait, and Rc ia correct that O&CB copued TATS-TARS control system exactly.   Would he like to give the detailed explanation?

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, September 20, 2023 7:29 PM

Got to be the brake stand and controller interlocks.  I haven't run Seashore's 631 in quite a long time (it's been out of service with motor bearing issues).  It was set up to be run while seated.  The door controls were tied into the the key position.  

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, September 20, 2023 4:50 AM

Give-away hint:  O&CB followed the practice of only one other system, and exanmples from the other system do survive in trolley museums, incliding Seashore.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, September 18, 2023 10:31 AM

You jumped the track; that was not the issue.

Study the car's equipment,  Not the trolley poles.

And, yes  there were Ohio Brass contactors that worked with both trolley-wheels and streetcar carbon-insert shoes.

The shoes the North Shore used were different and may have provided a probklem even then.

If you had ridden the carsm you would know the answer.  Ditto inside any preserved in operating condition.

But many people that did not know the system are surprised by the facts.

And there were second-hand work cars that would not have had the problem.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, September 18, 2023 6:26 AM

Most of the O&CB's cars were single-ended.  Like many companies, they equipped single-ended cars with trolley wheels instead of shoes (O&CB's double-ended Birneys had shoes).  Wheels don't consistently trip trolley contactors.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, September 17, 2023 1:56 PM

You are on the right track.  Study the Omaha  & Council Bluffs  rolling stock, and complete the answer and ask the next question.

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, September 16, 2023 6:28 PM

I guess it depends on which type of switch actuators they used.  Magnetic read actuators were often pedal-actuated.  O & CB cars, at least later ones, used foot actuated brakes where the brake was released by full depression of the pedal (New York's TARS used the same system on many cars.  Actuating the pedal would have left the operator in a dangerous position (TARS cars had hand-actuated gongs for the same reason).  

Trolley contact actuators would require passing the actuator with power on or off, depending on which way the switch was to be set.  Use of contact actuators may have been rejected, considering that the grades in Omaha, at least, were steep enough that cable traction was used at one point.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, September 15, 2023 7:28 AM

Hint:

If they had employed normal streetcar electric switches, they would  have worked, but safety would have been compromised.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, September 14, 2023 9:00 AM

The Omaha and Council Bluffs Street Railway could not employ electrictrack swithces.   Why?

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, September 12, 2023 7:02 AM

KCPS did a fairly profitable freight business until the late 1950s.  Among other notable things about their operations was one of the last "interurban-style" steeple cab freight motors built by GE.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, September 11, 2023 10:25 AM

Kansas City Public Service. 

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, September 10, 2023 12:29 PM

I did mean passenger service.  The 9th Avenue El didn't handle much freight.

Some transit systems did handle freight.  Chicago Rapid Transit/CTA's service (for the Milwaukee Road) was well known.  In one case an interstate transit sytem had about 10 miles of freight trackage, that was all in one of its states, with direct interchange to four class one railroads and an interurban (that did run to the other state).

Big hint - it was west of the Mississippi, and some of the freight operations were near a country club.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, September 10, 2023 11:18 AM

I'll assume you mean passenger service and state that you are the winner.  Freight service did survive well past the end of the Polo Grounds Shuttle.  Look forward to your question.

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