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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, April 15, 2024 6:41 PM

Erie, of course.  Meeting up with H&M, but NOT with H&M-PRR joint service (which was Gibbs).  Then you could get on BMT equipment, or toddle north on the IRT to the NYW&B.  And (later) New Haven.  C&EI, C&WI, let me see if I remember any other pre-preservation uses...

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, April 15, 2024 1:53 PM

rcdrye

C&O(of I) and EL shared a couple of miles of track east of State Line Crossing in Indiana, including the Hammond Station.

 
C&O had trackage rights over Erie/EL between State Line and Griffith.
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, April 15, 2024 9:10 AM

Change ogf ownership of the operation, with lille or no cgange of service sdoes not make a different service for answering this question.  But here is a hint:  One see saw, and  through much of the classic period, three different services with Stillwell equipment, with one of these only within the city, plus there were two other services linked to the city but outside.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, April 14, 2024 4:37 PM

C&O(of I) and EL shared a couple of miles of track east of State Line Crossing in Indiana, including the Hammond Station.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, April 14, 2024 12:31 AM

I knew about the Big Four, and thus the C&O thriugh cars, using both LaSalle and Central, and the C&O South Shore Hammond connection but not the Hammnd connection with the Erie.

 

Name eight different rail operations that used Stillwell-designed passenger cars.

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, April 13, 2024 6:05 PM

C&O of Indiana operated into Central station for a couple of years after 1910 before cutting back service to Hammond, Indiana.  C&O proper had through cars to both Central Station (via Big 4) and LaSalle Street (The Sportsman handed cars over to NYC in Toledo).  After 1948, C&O's Pere Marquette District used Grand Central, and after 1968, C&NW's CPT.  The C&O of Indiana listed timetable connections in Hammond with the Erie (Dearborn) and CSS&SB (getting Randolph St), with C&O tickets honored.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, April 12, 2024 6:26 AM

You stated connectins, not just through cars.  I was not aware f any thrugh C&O sleepoers to Chicago other than on the Big Four.  But possibly that is the answer you want.

Or stasying with Florida service, possibly the Central of Georgia.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, April 12, 2024 5:57 AM

Southern cars ended up at Central, LaSalle, or Dearborn.  Never got close to Grand Central or C&NW's CPT.  You do have part of the correct answer embedded in yours, though.  Keep in mind the period 1910 to 1971.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, April 12, 2024 4:52 AM

OK  The Southern    Had through cars or good connections from Florida to Chicago for the C&EI, B&O, Big Four/NYC, and IC; and the PRR was not a "friendly" connection to Chicago, only to NYCity.

I asked the question, because if you insisted, you could get a ticket using the Southern and the PRR from Florida to Chicago.  I doubt that anyone did, except possibly someone needing stop-overs in towns only meeting that routing.

One could also use the C&O's local Chicago train, most of its life requiring the South Shore from Hammond to Chicago, ending up at Randolf Street.  Of couse any IC Randolf Street train connected with IC and Big Four intercity trains at Central.  The B&O ended up at Northwestern, but mostly used Grand Central. The Big Four used La Salle at times, as welll as IC/s Central.

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, April 11, 2024 8:49 AM

Of course I can't say "never", but the Pullman car lines involved were all of very long standing, and while the only railroad that might have handled the cars to Union did handle connecting cars from this railroad, it was never a friendly connection to the Chicago area.

The connecting trains that didn't carry through cars did honor tickets reading "Chicago" on this carrier.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, April 11, 2024 7:33 AM

Are you asbsolutely certain that Union Station never had a connecting train?

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, April 10, 2024 6:48 PM

Three stations had the railroad's own trains - one of them later got through cars but not at the same time the railroad's trains called there.  One Station - only through cars.  Two stations served connections only.

Randolph St.

Central

Dearborn

LaSalle Street

Grand Central

North Western CPT

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, April 10, 2024 1:57 AM

Each station except Union:  BOTH through caes and connections or through cars and/or connections?

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, April 7, 2024 1:10 PM

Between 1910 and 1971 passenger trains, through cars on passenger trains, and connections to passenger trains operated under this railroad's name operated out of every downtown Chicago station except Union Station.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Sunday, April 7, 2024 10:04 AM

rcdrye is correct.  It's your question.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, April 7, 2024 7:02 AM

C&ME cars would issue and accept transfers with Milwaukee Northern cars before MN was absorbed by TMER&L.  

Milwaukee cars ran under the Chicago and Milwaukee Electric name until the end of service.  C&ME owned the track on Wells used by TM for a few blocks, even after C&ME abandoned service north of the 6th and Michigan terminal.  The C&ME cars charged a 5 cent fare to the end, undercutting TM's 6 and later 7 cent fares.  The south end of the line at Oklahoma Avenue was reached from the street by a steep wooden stairway.

C&ME cars also had deeper flanges than most street railways.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, April 7, 2024 1:38 AM

Two that I can think of:  1) NO transfers issued to any other transit service; and 2) marker lights (night) and flags (day).

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, April 4, 2024 10:11 AM

New question.  The Milwaukee streetcar service of North Shore Line had one rather unusual characteristic.  What was that characteristic?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, April 4, 2024 7:51 AM

The turbos were also shop queens - frequently replaced by other equipment.  If my fuzzy memory is correct they were leased from United Aircraft.  I suspect no one in Amtrak operations was really very sorry to see them go (to CN).

The RTG turbines used in midwest service were as successful as equipment run under conditions very different from those they were built for could be.  Unfortunately that lesson - and the lesson that aircraft manufacturers were not the best bet for railroad equipment - led to the less successful Rohr turbos.  

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, April 4, 2024 12:06 AM

Note that Turbo-Train sewrvice on the Amtrak NEC did end up rerouted into Pennsylvania Station before it was discontinued, and both directions had an across-the-platform connecton with a Metroliner.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, April 3, 2024 6:36 PM

Harley's Hornet!

A stated reason for market failure of the TurboTrain on the ex-New Haven part of the NEC (and NYC into GCT) was the diversion of one of the trainsets to the West Virginia service...

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, April 3, 2024 2:12 PM

Correct!  The ratio seemed to be about one label per passenger.  Started with leased C&O equipment, it got a United Aircraft TurboTrain set for a few months, then leased B&O equipment.  Nominally an "experimental" run between Washington and Parkersburg W. Va. on B&O's main line to Cincinnati, it traversed Senator Robert Byrd's state of West Virginia. 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, April 3, 2024 1:55 PM

This run would be the Potomac Turbo, Potomac Special, West Virginian and possibly other names between Washington and Parkersburg WV.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, April 3, 2024 11:21 AM

This Amtrak route, long since dropped, operated either with leased conventional equipment (including boiler-equipped GP9s) or with completely inappropriate equipment under several names in the 1970s.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, March 29, 2024 8:24 AM

You are abslutely correct, and I'm going back and making the correction in my question.  Thanks, and l look forward to your question.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, March 29, 2024 6:53 AM

What you're listing as Kenosha is actually Waukegan/North Chicago (City service in Kenosha was TMER&L). One "city" car, CNS&M 361, was acquired from the CA&E (their 500) first under lease in 1942 and later by purchase.  Never a favorite with either railroad, 500 was used for a while on the Lake Bluff-Mundelein shuttle.  Most of its North Shore career was spent in Waukegan, where it was the extra car that was only used when nothing else was available.  Superficially similar to the North Shore's 500 series cars, it had different motors, gearing and controls. 

CA&E had intended it for use on the Batavia shuttle.  Crews didn't like it, and it sat unused in the Wheaton yards for a long time before WWII  after a motor failed. On the CA&E, it was equipped with third rail shoes.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 28, 2024 10:18 PM

The C&NS used streetcar equipment, single cars, without mu capability, for local streetcar sevice in Waukegan service, Waukegan - Great Lakes (North Chicago), and Milwaukee service, and for a short time, one other service.  Where?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, March 28, 2024 10:04 AM

We have a winner.  Your question.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 27, 2024 12:35 PM
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, March 27, 2024 10:13 AM

As is well known, Chicago Surface Lines was the operator of Chicago's streetcars, trolley buses and feeder buses.  Since it was not an incorporated entity, provide the names of the four underlying companies that owned the equipment and properties.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul

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