Of course, in 1926, New York Railways was (were) bought very-indirectly by GM, looking to the future and conversion to bus, once the transit bus that could compete with the streetcar was developed. In 1934, NY&Harlem's two streetcar lines (4th & Madison Avenues and 86th Street Crosstown) were bought from the NY^Central and added to "The Green Lines System." (They did have transfer privileges earlier.) The conversion process started December 1935 and ended in somewhat complicared fashion (single franchise runs kerpt months on some lines) by the end of 1936.
Overmod, please tell us all you know about the changes produces by the Dotzero - Orested cut-off, and today's situation.
And RC can fill-in for you for the next question if you wish.
NY Railways included systems that were insolvent as well as systems that, on paper at least, were solvent due to lease payments (probably from other, insolvent, properties, some of which were also part of NY Railways...). TARS was (more or less) a single entity with fairly understandable assets and liabilities. The division of the various properties from the IRT allowed the accountants and lawyers to make at least a token attempt to straighten out the financial mess.
Blaine has the answer to my question in his 1918 book on the development of New York's rapid transit. He tells an intriguing and perhaps not wholly detailed version of the great IRT-NYR merger and what happened as the wheels fell off Ryan's finances between the Panic of 1907 and the reorganization in 1912.
You would have to prove to me that your answer to the New York Railways Systems answer is the correct one rather thsn mine. It was basically the IRT that took NYR from receivership, and they had all sorts of corpotaye relaytionships to use for testing weird forms of urban transportation had they wished to do so. But maybe both answers have some merit.
Only Dotaero - Orested had Dotzero for 0,0 start of distance for construction progress. I did say a 1st-Class N. American Railroad.
Don't forget Colver and Revloc (Cambria & Indiana).
But you didn't answer the question yet!
Yes, the other entity was TARS, but you'll notice it has a singular name 'system'. There is a reason, and a very good one at the time, why the other entity was 'New York Railways' and not 'New York Railway System'...
This is the sort of question I like but virtually no one else here does.
What I was trying to find was the transit proposal that followed the general idea of Samuda's atmospheric railway, but that used "steam" as the motive power rather than compressed air. The only reference I had from "long ago" didn't discuss just how the steam was supposed to be used -- my thinking is that it would have to be admitted to purge, then allowed to condense to vacuum with atmospheric pressure actually pushing the train, like a very long staged Newcomen engine on its side.
The other thing is that I have pictures of a system very like a double-deck Listowel and Ballybunion, with a single rail carried high inside the car for suspension and lateral wheels bearing on what appear to be L braces for sway and lateral... there are gallery-car-like stairs up to a second deck with what does not appear to be complete legroom or access, but the vertical carrying wheels at each end of the car may just be drawn in improper detail. Was this related to the Burrows plan that didn't quite come off?
I am reasonably certain that your question involves Dotsero and Orestod, and the Moffat Tunnel, but I'll leave that for someone else to flesh out interestingly. But what about Foster and Retsof?
Was not the other system the Third Avebue Railroad System?
New York Raiways included Eighth & Ninth Avenue Railway and other street-specific (some crosstown, possibly Grand Street and/or Canal Street) that were all separate companies before the Metropolitan merger and probably had different ultimate actual owners with separate accounting required.
Overmod: Is this the kind of question you like?
Name a specific railroad line constructed as one project that had two end points spelled with the same letters, one name the exact reverse of the other, with one having a specific meaning regarding the actual construction.
The two endpoints and the line's description and purpose,
The owning railroad.
The resulting change in freight and passenger traffic.
The owner today.
The other user today.
.
As a quick placeholder (and example of the wrong sort of question): when the Ryan Metropolitan Street Railway organization came apart after the Panic of 1907 and the complaints about the 'trust-like' merger with the Interborough system, one of the two resulting companies was named 'New York Street Railways'. There was a specific reason for the plural; what was it?
OK. Anyway I can helkp with your research?
It might be good enough, but it also has to be generally interesting and not induce progressive MEGO syndrome in whoever is still here.
Your best attempt should be good enough!
I have the question, but I can't find the references to ask it correctly...
And Overmod is up on this thread, also.
Yes, having a good brain and lots of facts does have its price.
Right. One or two cars for each team, because the law now forbade steam south of 42nd SWt5., except for 11th and 12th Avenues.
Your question.
daveklepperWhat was unusual about its continued operation south of the new Depot, even furnishing a spectator-sport in the process?
Here is my replacenent question:
Whwn the New York Central and Hudson River Railroad moved from a Union Station further south to the new Grand Central Depot, predicessor of the existing 113-year-old Grand Central Yrtminal, the New York New Haven & Hartfard delayed in moving in. What was unusual about its continued operation south of the new Depot, even furnishing a spectator-sport in the process?
The answer to the bypassed question is that upon coversion of 4th & Madison, NY & Harlem - NY Railways strretcars to bus, the remaining Third Avenue Railways Third & Ansterdam "T" linw moved from thee outside of the 4-tracks on the Bowery and Park Row to the inside tracks that were from the original line.
daveklepper Maybe I should ask questions that don't involve NYCity streetcars?
Maybe I should ask questions that don't involve NYCity streetcars?
As did Cincinnati. not sure how long, however. Some 75 years ago in Railroad Msagazine, anyone remember it, about asn incident in a ysard with three gauges, used by one or more interurbans, local streetcars, anfd a freight railroad that itself had both standard and narow (3c ft. I think).
Another New cYprk City streetcar question.
The World's original street railway, opened with horsecars with stage-coach-like bodies, on Park Row, the Bowery, and Forth Avenue - Park Avenue South, including thec tunnel that is now the Park Avenue Vehicular Tunnel, was repliced by the 4th & Madison Avenues bus line, replacing the 4th & Madison Avenues streetcar line, in Dece4mber 19i35. I never road, to my knowledge, that specific streetcar line. The last Manhattan streetcar lines went bus 29 June 1947, although lines from The Bronx entered Manhattan until late Spring 1948.
Yet I did ride a portion of that original line, possibly as often as ten or fifteen times. How can I claim that? Even photographed streetcars on it and posted them on as thread on this Forum? How can I claim that? And that thread has a track diagram that should suggest the answer.
The fourth was West Virginia (Wheeling). The K&IT bridge between New Albany and Louisville had the standard and broad gauge tracks set up as a gantlet (no shared rail). The bridge is still in use by Norfolk Southern. Columbus Ohio and Wheeling had dual-gauge track.
New Orleans also used (and uses) 5'2 1/2" gauge, but no one called it Pennsylvania gauge.
Ohio (Cincinnati), Indiana (New Albany), Kentuky (Louiville) New Albany - Louiswville Bridge
The Daisy Line interurbasn over the bridge, was on dual-gauge track on the brfidge.
And Cinci at one time had three gauges.
Pennsylvania Trolley Broad Gauge (5'2 1/2") was, and still is, used in Pennsylvania on Pittsburgh and Philadelphia systems. It was also found in at least four other states, and on at least one interstate bridge. Name any two of the states. The interstate bridge is still in use for other (standard gauge) railroad purposes.
Bumping this - he doesn't want any incredibly obscure questions and asks if anyone has a fun one.
Hey, Mr. Slouth Shore, when do we get your question?
Hey, Mr. South Shore, when do we get your question?
You get the gold star!
The railroad is Southern Pacific, the name is the "Owl", between Los Angeles and San Francisco via the Central Valley and Houston and Dallas.
Name a railroad that had two name trains, for a considerable period of time, with exactly the same name but in very different places and routes.
Overmod General Custer and General Pershing (Zephyr) on the Q? If so, the common endpoint is Kansas City; Zephyr got there from St. Louis; Custer from Seattle/Portland.
General Custer and General Pershing (Zephyr) on the Q?
If so, the common endpoint is Kansas City; Zephyr got there from St. Louis; Custer from Seattle/Portland.
Yes you're right. Westbound the General Custer had a morning departure from KC, whereas the General Pershing Zephyr got into KC in the evening. Eastbound, the General Custer got into KC in the morning, allowing a conection to the GPZ. The General Custer operated Kansas City-Billings only, connecting with GN and NP trains west to Seattle and Portland.
Overmod, the floor is yours...
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