With no OG handy I come up with these:
Washington DC PRR (various)
Jacksonville FL FEC (Royal Palm etc.)
Cincinnati OH NYC (Royal Palm etc.)
Meridian MS IC (VS&P) (Washington <-> Shreveport)
Lynchburg VA N&W (Washington to Cincinnati)
Atlanta GA A&WP (Crescent)
West Baden IN (Monon) (service to French Lick Springs)
The West Baden interchange might have been done by then, so my alternate is Columbus MS with the Columbus and Greenville.
Please note the date.
The July, 1943, issue of the Guide shows that the Southern interchanged sleepers (an all-coach train was interchanged at one point; ignore this particular interchange) with seven roads at seven points. Name the roads and the points.
Johnny
The last Soo sleepers were actually operated by the Milwaukee Road, which ended Pullman service shortly before the ex-DSS&A Copper Country Limited was dropped. Earlier Pullman examples included Chicago - Sault Ste Marie, joint with Milwaukee. Soo also had cars available to the Pullman pool, and regularly borrowed cars from the pool for summer operation, or even regular operation (PRR 10-5's assigned to the Laker). Of course Soo cars ran on CPR, and vice versa, not under Pullman control.
Rob and All:
The SOO operated their own sleepers until the end of their passenger service in 1967, although they carried Pullmans if there were interline movements. I don't know when the CofG ended their own sleepers. After 1958, the NYC and RI withdrew from the Pullman lease, but kept a few cars in said Pullman pool for interline movements.
Ed Burns
Deggesty Central of Georgia.
CofG was part of several midwest-Florida routes, best known probably being the Seminole/City of Miami route. On its own Atlanta-Savannah trains CofG preferred to operate its own sleepers. There were other railroads that operated their own cars but carried Pullmans on joint services.
rcdrye Southern and ACL runs were all Pullman. FEC had a limited contract where FEC owned the cars but Pullman operated them. These cars were operated by the railroad.
Southern and ACL runs were all Pullman. FEC had a limited contract where FEC owned the cars but Pullman operated them. These cars were operated by the railroad.
The Southern operate interline trains with sleepers to resorts, including midwest - Florida trains such as the Royal Palm, plus pure Southern intercity sleepers betwen Raliegh and Greensboro, Jacksonville and Bermingham, Atlanta and Washington, etc.
Ditto the SAL, with a host of interline NY - Florida trains, but also pure SAL Wilmington - Atlanta, Wilmington - Birmingham, Jacksonville - Miami, Jacksonville - Tampa, Nofolk (forgetting the exact name across the bay, reached by ferry or connecting bus through tunnel) - Jacksonville and - Atlanta (and Birmingham), etc.
Ditto ACL, with its host of NYC - Florida trains, also handling Florida - Midwest fleet and its own Wilmington - Tampa sleeper and possibly some others.
Southern sleepers, about 60% interline (inlcuidng the Crescent) and 40% Southern only.
SAL About 75% and 25%
ACL About 85% and 15%
FEC Did have its own Miami -Jacksonville sleeper until the Depression, sometime in the '30s, othewise all interline. May have had a Jackisonville - W.Palm Beach setout and pcikup sleeper at one time. Otherwise all interline.
This southeastern carrier participated in several Pullman "lines", including some well-known resort trains. Between some of its largest on-line cities, it operated its own Pullman and ACF sleepers, at least until the late 1920s.
Pretty impressive. Did Beebe write about this train? 55 hours -Remarkable.
What our countries need today is a good $50.00 a night roomette.
daveklepperPlease give the full consist of each train. For example. combine-mail storate, coach, coach, diner, 12&1, 4 cpt-1 DwRm-obs?
In each set, and ahead of the end car, was the 12-1 first class sleeper, followed by the dining car, the first class coach., the tourist sleeper, and at the head, the exceptionally long mail-express-baggage car.
daveklepperDate on the 4-6-2's used?
Soo Line H-1 (701-722) Alco/Schenectady 1904-1907
CPR G1a or G1d 1100-1119 CP 1906 or 1020-1026 MLW 1906
Don't have a listing for an SI 4-6-2.
daveklepperRunning timje? Engine and crew change points?
Running time was around 55 hours to Spokane. Comparable GN Oriental Limited was 62 hrs 15 mins to Seattle. Crew changes at Glenwood MN, Drake MN, Portal ND/Sask, Moose Jaw, Dunmore (Medicine Hat), Lethbridge, Cranbrook and Yahk. From Yahk the SI crew took it into Spokane. There might have been more crew changes at minor division points.
The Soo-Pacific was never a Chicago train. The 1909 Wisconsin Central lease hadn't begun when the train was inaugurated, and there weren't enough cars to do a through train.
Thanks to Wanswheel and Overmod.
MiningmanOvermod- I'm using a now 5 year old iPad and the finger/pressure touch screen is a bit hit and miss. It's functional but requires TLC and patience. My real laptop, not a Mac and does have a mouse, is at work taking the summer off.
1) Get a Bluetooth mouse and pair it. For the forums, be sure it has a scroll wheel. I usually prefer trackballs, but when you're 'mobile' they are more difficult to keep oriented.
2) Go into settings and turn assistive touch on. I believe that will give you access (through the little movable 'widget' that appears on the screen) to some of the virtual interfaces that would make selecting text regions easier.
If I remember correctly, press and hold on some part of the text, then choose 'select all' from the bar that pops up to get everything to light up. You can also double-tap the beginning (or end) of the text and move the pathetic little handles around to light up more of it. Yes, it's pathetic; yes, they ought to have implemented either a hard or soft 'option' key that could be used to give conformity with other Apple devices; yes, consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds; yes, crApple has very little idea of how to make or program actual user-friendly devices.
Link to consist page
http://www.crowsnest.bc.ca/soospokane/consist.html
Overmod- I'm using a now 5 year old iPad and the finger/pressure touch screen is a bit hit and miss. It's functional but requires TLC and patience. My real laptop, not a Mac and does have a mouse, is at work taking the summer off.
Thanks for the tip though, I'm not the best at it and could use the tips and encouragement.
MiningmanWell sorry...can't get this image to be brighter...
Mouse over it and the text will highlight for easy reading.
(That page is a candidate for "Web Pages that Suck", an admirable site if you've never seen it. Sometimes design defeats itself.)
Well sorry...can't get this image to be brighter..maybe Wanswheel!
Consist
Each train of the Soo-Spokane consisted of a fast Pacific (4-6-2), followed by an exceptionally long mail-express-baggage car. Then came the tourist sleeper, a first class coach, a dining car, a 12-1 first class sleeper and the observation car.
The cars built specially for the new Soo-Spokane Trains Deluxe in 1907 & others
3 of 6 car set on tour
Your tour includes:
Track 1: The Millionaires' Special
Tour 1: The Trans-Canada Limited - 1929
Track 2: Early Trains Deluxe and Interpretive Cars
Tour 2A: The Soo-Spokane Train Deluxe - 1907
Tour 2B: The Pacific Express - 1886 - Not on tour yet
Tour 2C: Interpretive Cars - Not on tour yet
Track 3: Cars-of-State and Streamlined Trains
Tour 3A: Cars-of-State and Business Cars
Tour 3B: The Chinook - 1936 - Not on tour yet
Deluxe Railway Hotel Architecture
Tour 4: Royal Alexandra Hall
Seems some images won't paste. Well I'll keep trying.
This train had very unusually long mail/baggage cars built for the service.
Please give the full consist of each train. For example. combine-mail storate, coach, coach, diner, 12&1, 4 cpt-1 DwRm-obs?
Date on the 4-6-2's used?
Running timje? Engine and crew change points?
Way to go Redrye. That must have something to be able to take this train. The world was full of hope and wonder and good feelings about the future. $oo Line and DW&P had some interesting and important trains and routings despite their smaller size.
Soo-Spokane Train Deluxe. Cars were built in 1907 for the route via MStP&SSM (Soo Line), CPR and Spokane International between the Twin Cities and Spokane. The train was inaugurated July 4, 1907, extended to Portland via the SP&S in 1909. James J. Hill only lost the storage mail due to the closed-pouch routing, but it was still a major revenue hit to his Great Northern. Soo-Spokane route (via Crowsnest line, not the later Soo-Dominion/Mountaineer route via Banff) was 10 miles shorter than GN, 40 shorter than NP. (The St. Paul's CM&PS wasn't finished yet). Completion of Cascade Tunnel shortened GN's route by more than 10 miles.
The six observation cars were Fernie, Yahk, Nelson, Cranbrook, Curzon and Spokane. Four of the six were Soo Line owned, two owned by CPR (Spokane and Cranbrook). The observation cars had 4 compartments and one drawing room, the other sleeper in the train had 12 open sections and a drawing room.
Thanks to www.crowsnest.bc.ca/soospokane/sooconcept.html for the detailed info, and to George Dubin's Some Classic Trains for knowing what to look for.
Curzon and Omemee (one of the 12-1's) are preserved at the Canadian Museum of Rail Travel in Cranbrook BC.
In the period of time between 1900 and WW1 ( exact date part of the question), Barney & Smith Co., a major competitor of Pullman, completed a very, very speciai order of six complete train sets for a new train service. Six magnificient tail end cars were constructed for each of the six train sets. Brass railed open platforms, electric lights!, color striped canopies and something new- an electrically illuminated circular tail board sign spelling out the name of the train. These cars featured private state rooms, deep wool carpets and stained glass in the upper windows and in the upper celestory ceilings. Green plush covered wicker chairs were spaced around the lounge. A beautiful curved sideboard and writing desk complete with leaded glass was for use in the library along with the latest day newspapers. It was the best money could buy. Quite surprising coming from such a humble railroad, but ( there's always a but), this was a joint venture with a much larger and very significant railway...and it had a very unusual routing, ...and it was a long distance, (really long distance) train. In fact it operated 1,480 miles just on the bigger railways route. In addition it operated on a fast schedule and only the latest in Pacific type locomotives would do up front.
Unbelievably it was 10 miles shorter than one competitor and 40 miles shorter than another despite its very unusual routIng.
One of the famous railroad titans of the day was infuriated when his train lost the United States Mail contract to this new train.
Inauguration day was a big deal as the trains left both terminals at each end at the same time and there were big celebrations all along the route.
So..name the train, the date of the inauguration, and the unusual routing. Bonus points for the names of each of the six tail cars.
Might as well be. Hit it!
Great information. Incredible how fast it all advanced from 1900 to now. Do we even dare to guess at the next hundred years? Perhaps Tofflers 'Third Wave of Power is Knowledge" will come to an end with computers designing computers. If I could have a fully functional Niagara in my backyard from a 3D printer in an afternoon then so be it.
Is the question answered?
Keep in mind that the specific use of 'phone or 'graph for train orders is a very different thing from testing whether the technology works. You will notice in some of the early phone testing with the Audion amplifier that discrimination of various types of noise is a significant problem with intelligibility, and this was understood as a specific problem with safety-critical operations practice. (It was fine for some of the reported things, like damage to equipment or holding connecting trains, but not for train orders any more than as signal repeaters or ATC...)
The specific reference I found was that they got enough integrity out of at least one division's worth of phone coverage -- I suspect out of Scranton, with the antenna up on the hotel -- to be able to issue an actual telephonic train order. I don't find any evidence (admittedly my experience is skewed by the inherent bias of available sources) that the experiment actually proceeded to replacing telephone train control with wireless in any pre-WWII period, even as part of the 'mandated' rollout of ATC on the Lackawanna after about 1922.
We all know 'the rest of the story', which is that perhaps with the War and government control, followed by the rise of AM broadcasting which made any spark-wireless system that discriminated stations by the timbre or other chacteristic of their EM source first undesirable and then illegal, it would have to wait for the introduction of cheap radios or reliable inductive trainphones (note the date of invention of the 'grasshopper telegraph', something that is borne out rather dramatically in some of Sprague's early drawings and designs!) for actual operations to be conducted on the air rather than by stopping at call boxes to reach the dispatcher or the other men on a train...
BTW, note also the reference to the flurry of interest in automatic train control in this era, long before the expedient 'mandate' and at-least-presumptively-extortionate precondition for handing back private control incorporated into the Esch Act...
Yes, the date of the Electrical World article was May 30 1914. They refer to a nine day severe blizzard the previous winter and that the Lackawanna was successful with a wireless telegraph at that time. Then it goes on to say they were going to use the equipment shown in the article to attempt wireless telephony. And that it was recently installed and tested out. So that would put the date somewhere before the May 30th, 1914 article.
The 1922 date seemed too late but it's all I could find. This was, as you noted, a successful test on a moving train.
MiningmanHope this is what you're looking for as an answer.
Almost a decade late.
(I am disgusted to find that after a number of repeated power failures and undervoltages, the device that held the reference with the actual date has gone dead with disk corruption and I can't get the specific date with the 'par-tic-u-lars'. I recall it being December 5th, either 1914 or 1915. Interestingly, the equivalent for a train order via wireless telegraphy was only shortly earlier, in 1913.)
Interestingly, it was recognized almost from the beginning that a key difference between telephony and telegraphy was important -- the idea that most people in train service, and perhaps the best candidates for train service, did not understand Morse -- and also that the use of wireless for block signaling and automatic train control required far more integrity and noise reduction than either code or voice transmission of train order information.
The radiotelephone messages in 1922 were important because they were of 'telephonic sound quality', and very interestingly to me it was reported that reception in 'long tunnels' was said to be good (which I would not have predicted before looking at the technical detais of the rigs involved!) I understood the 'purpose' of the 1922 testing as being to provide a voice-grade telephone service to passengers on a moving train (as opposed to a phone like the one on the Century, that was disconnected when the train left the terminal).
Note how very different this was from the service initiated on the Metroliners which might make an interesting quiz question in a couple of years, but is now directly relevant by comparison. (Note the very high level of technical critical thinking about practical details, typical of the people from Bell Labs in that era.)
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