rcdrye Deggesty No, it did not go through Knoxville, nor did it travel on the L&N. Then I'm stumped unless you left a piece out, or Rome isn't the first place switching was done. 194 miles from Rome gets me about Oakdale on the CNO&TP. I can almost call Lexington KY a major city, but the whole thing falls apart when you say part of the route is no longer there - unless you're talking about the Southern's rework of the CNO&TP Rathole. Even an 1895 system map hasn't given me any new ideas, though it does show the SR line north out of Mobile as the Mobile and Birmingham to Selma.
Deggesty No, it did not go through Knoxville, nor did it travel on the L&N.
No, it did not go through Knoxville, nor did it travel on the L&N.
Then I'm stumped unless you left a piece out, or Rome isn't the first place switching was done. 194 miles from Rome gets me about Oakdale on the CNO&TP. I can almost call Lexington KY a major city, but the whole thing falls apart when you say part of the route is no longer there - unless you're talking about the Southern's rework of the CNO&TP Rathole. Even an 1895 system map hasn't given me any new ideas, though it does show the SR line north out of Mobile as the Mobile and Birmingham to Selma.
Yes, Rome is not the first place where the car was switched.
Yes, the road from Mobile to Selma was still known as the Birmingham and Mobile in 1893; but it is listed under the ETV&G. The ET&G was, as well as I can tell, constructed from Knoxville to Cohutta, and later was built into Chattanooga from Cleveland (Tenn.). (The ET&V was constructed from Bristol to Knoxville.) I am not sure as to when or by whom the road from Ooltewah to Atlanta, passing through Cohutta and East Rome was built; it may have been the ET&G, or even the ETV&G.
Incidentally, in 1893 the herald or emblem of the Big Four was a Maltese cross with a "4" in the center, and wording around the 4 and in the arms. So, there was a time when the numeral "4" was officially used.
Johnny
Looks like Rome to Knoxville (SRy), then L&N to Cincinnati. Might have been switching at Cleveland TN just east of Chattanooga. I'm a bit fuzzy on the L&N lines but I seem to remember the Knoxville -Corbin line was absorbed by L&N at some point.
I should have added that the car went through only one state capital, which has been named--Indianapolis. How did it get from Rome to Cincinnati? Where was it switched?
I have a doctor visit this morning, and I hope to be back (without a hospital stay) by this afternoon.
There was no Southern Railway System until in 1894. All of the roads that went into the Southern Railroad System were still operated seperately in 1893. The ETV&G ran from Bristol down to Brunswick and Mobile.
When in Rome...
Since the CNO&TP didn't become part of the Southern Railway system until 1894, it's not the only possible routing. I could see an NC&StL (Western & Atlantic) to Chattanooga, NC&StL to Nashville, L&N to Louisville and Big Four to Chicago via Indianapolis, ending up on IC tracks north of Kankakee. That gives two state capitals, not one. Same applies to Rome-Southern-Knoxville(via Cleveland)-Southern-Harriman Jct-Tennesee Central-Nashville.
rcdrye How about Mobile AL - Rome GA (357 miles) Southern Ry?
How about Mobile AL - Rome GA (357 miles) Southern Ry?
Incidentally, three (including the subsidiary) of the roads shown were in receivership.
The 1893 Guide shows East Rome, and not Rome.
Put aside all thoughts of the Sunshine State; the car never saw Florida.
Rob has the right state capital (and it was the only capital city on the route).
I would say that the first part of the routing is the hardest; it is not one that I would have thought of. Indeed, neither immediately logical road out of the origin had any through service to Chicago from that point at tthat time, though both did in later years.
That first leg distance almost surely means Florida peninsula, guys. And Nashville is the likely state capital, by way of Chattanooga, perhaps
While IC would give Springfield IL, One we moved east I figured the last leg into Chicago is likely Big 4 from Cincinnati, as that would get Indianapolis as a state capital into the bargain. Using various maps I'm thinking Tampa or St. Petersburg for the southern end, with Atlanta as the first large city. A couple of routings come to mind. Not so easy picking out the middle pieces.
Now that I think about it, the CH&D/Monon "Great Central" route shared the Chicago and Indiana Western station on 63rd st. in Chicago with the Wabash. That would suggest an NC&StL/L&N route from Atlanta to Cincinnati via Nashville.
The final leg was on the IC track--but it was not an IC train.
The final leg must have been on the IC.
Oh, Rob, you are way, way too far west. You do have the right track by the Exposition--but the wrong road.
The only thing I come up with that's even close is SP (H&TC) from Galveston to Denison TX, M-K-T to Moberly MO, and Wabash (via Springfield) in the general direction of Chicago. I know this route existed in 1890, not so sure about 1893.
From the origin to the first point where switching would be required was 357 miles. From there, to the second switching point was 194 miles (this section has been partially abandoned). From there to the first major city was 69 miles.
I'll go back a little farther than I had the last two or three times. In 1893, the World's Fair in Chicago was the place to go--especially according to the roads serving Chicago from the East, with several sleeper lines especially set up for such traffic.
One unusual route began in a Southern port city, and ran more than 400 miles before entering a major city, from which it ran a little over 300 miles before reaching another major city, and then passed through a state capital on its way to the World's Fair. If you wanted to, you could get off the train within a block or two of the fairgrounds--but you had to go about three miles further find a good hotel.
Wanted: the southern origin, the junctions where the car had to be switched (I count four), and the roads that carried the car (mid-20th century names will be accepted). The route is no longer possible, since it is broken in at least two places.
B&O's St. Petersburg car that ran 3 days a week was its last Florida car, discontinued after the 1957/58 winter season.
Your question, Johnny.
rcdrye Actually I can't believe I missed Birmingham, since we had your great question about SR trains 7 and 8 about a month ago. Equal wet noodle slap for NC&StL So... What railroad known primarily as an eastern trunk line with east-west traffic participated in Pullman service to Florida until at least 1957?
Actually I can't believe I missed Birmingham, since we had your great question about SR trains 7 and 8 about a month ago. Equal wet noodle slap for NC&StL
So... What railroad known primarily as an eastern trunk line with east-west traffic participated in Pullman service to Florida until at least 1957?
rcdrye Chattanooga TN L&N (also cars to Nashville) We went over this a while back on Nashville to Knoxville sleepers.
Chattanooga TN L&N (also cars to Nashville)
We went over this a while back on Nashville to Knoxville sleepers.
Yes, the Tennesean carried a Washington-Nashville sleeper, which was moved between the Union Station and the Terminal Station; the interchange in Harriman was also between two stations; all of the other interchanges were made without such a move.
Rob found all but the Sou-SLSF, in Birmingham. Very good, without using a Guide!
Knoxville-Nashville sleeper was interchanged with the Tennessee Central at Harriman!
One more--who and where?
Harriman TN, Tennessee Central (cars to Nashville)
No, neither Raleigh nor SAL is in this.
One place is in a large city; the other is in a town.
Did Sou. interchange a Portsmouth - Ashville sleeper with SAL in Raleigh?
I really should have allowed Monroe and Bristol in Virginia; I was thinking of indivdual car and not entire train interchanges; that makes nine places and eight roads.
Jacksonville is out; there were no sleepers interchanged there that summer (and that would have added another road--SAL). No interchange with the CI&L, nor with the Mississippi Central; there were no sleepers into Columbus on the Southern.
So, Washington (PRR), Cincinnati (NYC), Meridian (IC), Atlanta (A&WP), and Birmingham (SLSF) are correct. That leaves two places and two roads.
Bristol, TN, Memphis - NY and the third rout New Orleans - NY, the Pelican, all interchanged twice, of course, again at Monroe or Lynchburg. Bermingham, Frisco, Kansas City- Flordia Speicalo, KC - Jacksonville. Just additions, winner already posted.
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