It got close to the border, but didn't cross.
Was it close to the border?
Since we're looking at U.S. and Canadian things at the same time...
This subsidiary of a regional railroad had "Canadian" in its name, but never entered Canada, and never ran any revenue trains.
This is the way she looked when I saw her.
http://www.englehart.ca/node/59
Here is #701 T&NO Pacific..pretty little gal. She is on display in Englehart, Ontario. I saw her 2 years ago while travelling across the province and we spent a nice few hours together. She looked great.
Temiskaming and Northern Ontario and Texas and New Orleans shared the same reporting marks for 43 years!
Today's Ontario Northland Railway is not doing so well. Freight is way down with CN and CP favouring their own routes rather than historic interchanges. The long running Northlander from Toronto to Cochrane is no more. It was famous for its Swiss built ex TEE consist, 1977-1992.
When I went to college in Haileybury in the early seventies I took the Northlander many times from Toronto. Coaches and sleepers at that time were ex Bangor and Aroostook, N&W and Detroit and Mackinac. It left Toronto at 7pm. It was scheduled in at 4am in Haileybury and,on one particular trip, being a 19 or 20 year old I slept well past the stop and the conductor failed to wake me. He personally felt responsible and got me off in Englehart where he arraigned for an Ontario Northland work truck to take me back. I'll never forget it, the driver gave me a hot cup of coffee, must have been -30 cold, and I never missed a singe class that day.
Another quick story about the Ontario Northland nee T&NO. I owned a smallish motorcycle back then, 200cc. Every fall I would ship it up to Haileybury and every spring I would ship it back to my hometown in Burlington. It just was a bit too underpowered for the big 400 system highways and the long drive home, but great for zipping around town and small highway trips. CN would charge me $145 to ship it up from Burlington and my dad would complain like heck. The ONR would charge me $17 for the exact same shipment but in reverse. We did this for 3 summers, always complained about the CN rate but to no avail.
It's your question rcdrye.
Texas and New Orleans (T&NO) was a full class 1 subsidiary of the Southern Pacific, so cars with T&NO reporting marks were common until the early 1960s.
Temiskaming and Northern Ontario (also T&NO...) became the Ontario Northland (ONT) in 1946, ending billing clerks' nightmares.
Thought I shoud re-post the question since its buried a bit back.
OK..the Q is...( easy one, somewhat amusing)...There were 2 Class 1 railroads that had the same reporting mark. They were thousands of miles apart. This resulted in cars and invoices arriving and being sent to the wrong place frequently. This craziness went on roughly from 1903 until after the war in 1946, when finally one of them changed their name and thus the reporting marks.
So, what are the 2 Class 1 involved. what was the identical reporting mark and what was the name change?
SD70M-2Dude
Have cherished memories of 6218 along with a lot of home movies. I was in high school and got to borrow new "cinematography" equipment so have some nice film and sound. I was on her last run. I did see her in Fort Erie in 2006 last time. So sorry to hear she is getting shabby looking. Did lots of trips with my 3 girls when they were 7-13 yrs with 6060 and have home movies of that as well as N&W 611 and NKP 765. 6167 was in Guelph and always stopped in to say hello to the old gal. The St. Thomas crew is doing a marvellous job with their facilities. The CASO must be remembered! Makes me stupdified to think it is gone.
Did not know about 3101 being sold. Interesting. Those 2 were some kind of engine, ahead of their time and could put the CN Northerns in their place, except maybe the 6400's, but even them.
Kudo's to volunteering at the Alberta Railway Museum. Never give up and you will fire and run 1392 one day.
Miningman:
What a wall you must have even with only those engines! I haven't made it to Montreal or Ottawa yet but I have been through Southern Ontario, and I hope you are remembering 6218 from her glory days cause she's a pretty sad, rusting sight today in Fort Erie. 6167 was cosmetically restored a few year ago and is in much better shape, and down in St. Thomas 5700 (nee 5703) is kept in immaculate condition inside the former CASO/MC/NYC shop there. They even keep all the bearings & air systems lubricated and move her around on a regular basis (with a diesel of course).
My experiences with steam mainly consist of volunteering at the Alberta Railway Museum and helping to maintain (and hopefully one day fire & run) our CN 4-6-0 1392 on select summer weekends, and passing by 4-8-2 6015 in Jasper whenever I work out of there. I have also seen the famous 6060 but only in her current cold, dead condition, and seeing her one day under steam is on my bucket list.
And we'll have to keep an eye on CP 3101, IPSCO sold her a couple years ago to a private collector with deep pockets (not quite deep enough to restore to operation unfortunately), and I have it on good authority that the new owner is planning to move her from Regina, destination is yet to be determined...
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD70M-2Dude-
I consider myself very fortunate in that I have seen every one of these 4 preserved locomotives as well as CN Northerns 6213, 6218, 6167 and 6400. Plenty of other wheel arrangements as well.
Sadly my picture wall will never include a NYC Hudson or Niagara or a PRR T1 or Q2...well I suppose one could photoshop one these days but you know what I mean.
You got it all Miningman, the next question is yours.
CPR 4-8-4's # 3100 and 3101 Class K-1 built by the CPR's Angus Shops. They were built for heavy overnight trains between Montreal and Toronto.
#3100 is preserved at the Natiional Gallery in Ottawa, Ontario and 3101, pictured above, is at IPSCO Family Park in Regina, Saskatchewan.
The boilers of the 36 T1 Class Selkirks 2-10-4's were based on the design of 3100 and 3101.
2 T1c Class Selkiirks are preserved, ( no T1a or T1b's preserved).
#5931 renumbered to #5934 is at Heritage Park in Calgary, Alberta.
#5935 is at Exporail near Montreal, Quebec.
A Class I railroad designed and built 2 steam locomotives to a new design; they were the largest on the railroad when built. Despite proving successful (they held the same assignment for 25 years before diesels forced them to other work) they were not duplicated, instead their boiler design was used in an even larger locomotive type that became an icon of the railroad. Meanwhile the original 2 laboured in relative obscurity. Despite this both were preserved and are on display today.
Name both locomotive types (number series, railroad classification or wheel arrangement is fine). Bonus points if you can name the locations the original 2 are preserved at, and any survivors of the second type.
SD70M-2Dude I'm thinking the first train was the joint UP-SP Golden Gate Special of 1888-1889 which ran from Oakland to the C&NW connection at Council Bluffs. Unfortunately I can't think of who operated the second Golden Gate Special but the streamliner's modified name would be Santa Fe's Golden Gate of the late 1930s.
I'm thinking the first train was the joint UP-SP Golden Gate Special of 1888-1889 which ran from Oakland to the C&NW connection at Council Bluffs. Unfortunately I can't think of who operated the second Golden Gate Special but the streamliner's modified name would be Santa Fe's Golden Gate of the late 1930s.
You got it! The UP-SP (or Central Pacific) Golden Gate Special of 1888-89 was an early attempt of a deluxe all-Pullman operation operating between Council Bluffs and San Francisco. Unfortunately, it may have been ahead of its time, as it lasted for less than a year.
SP used the Golden Gate Special moniker on one of their Portland-San Francisco trains around 1915-16 during the Panama-Pacific Exposition in San Francisco.
The third use of the Golden Gate name was used by Santa Fe for their Bakersfield-Oakland streamlined trains, which included a Los Angeles-Bakersfield bus connection. Despite the bus connection, the Golden Gate provided SP compeition for its Daylights.
You get the next question, SD70M-2Dude.
daveklepper PROSPECTOR? 49ER?
PROSPECTOR? 49ER?
no and no...
The Prospector was never a UP train name and the 49er was never a pure streamliner.
Clue -
"There was a short-lived deluxe train that was established a few decades after the first transcontinental railroad was completed." = UP
daveklepper California Special (Limited?) for the UP and AT&SF, and California Zephyr for the Q, D&RGW, WP.
California Special (Limited?) for the UP and AT&SF, and California Zephyr for the Q, D&RGW, WP.
Nope...
The train names I'm looking for refer to something more specific than a state.
What goes around, comes around....
There was a short-lived deluxe train that was established a few decades after the first transcontinental railroad was completed. A few decades later the same name was used on a train on another western line. About two decades after that another western railroad used a variation on that name for one of their streamliners.
Name the full name of the first two trains and the modified name for the third train.
Deggesty Zephyr Overland put it all together--southern terminus, roads, points at which the car was probably switched from one train to another, so I feel that he should ask the next question. I would have settled for the roads known to us today, but he did have access to the schedules. I am sure we all know that the Big Four's route from Cincinnati to Chicago no longer exists in its entirety, and there is no longer a railroad from Rome, Ga., to near Anniston, Ala. Otherwise, all of the route used by the car is still there. In later years, there were two through sleepers between Chicago and Mobile--one on the GM&O and one on the C&EI-L&N.
Zephyr Overland put it all together--southern terminus, roads, points at which the car was probably switched from one train to another, so I feel that he should ask the next question. I would have settled for the roads known to us today, but he did have access to the schedules.
I am sure we all know that the Big Four's route from Cincinnati to Chicago no longer exists in its entirety, and there is no longer a railroad from Rome, Ga., to near Anniston, Ala. Otherwise, all of the route used by the car is still there.
In later years, there were two through sleepers between Chicago and Mobile--one on the GM&O and one on the C&EI-L&N.
I'll put up a new question some time this weekend.
ZephyrOverland Deggesty I'll go back a little farther than I had the last two or three times. In 1893, the World's Fair in Chicago was the place to go--especially according to the roads serving Chicago from the East, with several sleeper lines especially set up for such traffic. One unusual route began in a Southern port city, and ran more than 400 miles before entering a major city, from which it ran a little over 300 miles before reaching another major city, and then passed through a state capital on its way to the World's Fair. If you wanted to, you could get off the train within a block or two of the fairgrounds--but you had to go about three miles further find a good hotel. Wanted: the southern origin, the junctions where the car had to be switched (I count four), and the roads that carried the car (mid-20th century names will be accepted). The route is no longer possible, since it is broken in at least two places. From what I've been seeing in other posts conerning this question this could be a Mobile, AL - Chicago through sleeper running on the following schedule: Mobile-Selma = Mobile & Birmingham #64, Lv. Mobile 11:30 p.m., Ar. Selma 7:00 a.m. Selma-East Rome = East Tennessee Virginia & Georgia #4, Lv. Selma 9:00 a.m., Ar. East Rome 4:35 p.m. East Rome-Chattanooga = East Tennessee, Virginia & Georgia (Alabama Division) #18, Lv. East Rome 4:45 p.m., Ar. Chattanooga 7:10 p.m. Chattanooga-Cincinnati = Queen and Crescent #6, Chicago Limited, Lv. Chattanooga 10:00 p.m., Ar. Cincinnati 6:30 a.m. Cincinnati-Chicago = Big Four #1, Atlanta and Chicago Limited, Lv. Cincinnati 7:01 a.m., Ar. Chicago 4:35 p.m. In the June 1893 Official Guide, the Q&C and ETV&G do not mention this sleeper line - only the Big 4 mentions this within their Atlanta and Chicago Limited consist listing. For the 1893 Worlds Fair, Chicago became the terminus for a number of Pullman car lines that were newly established and also a number of other existing lines that were temporarily rerouted to Chicago. After the Fair, all of this extra Chicago sleeping car capacity was pulled from service. Like this Mobile-Chicago sleeping car line, a number of these new and revised car lines had unique routings that rarely made a reappearance. Myron Bilas
Deggesty I'll go back a little farther than I had the last two or three times. In 1893, the World's Fair in Chicago was the place to go--especially according to the roads serving Chicago from the East, with several sleeper lines especially set up for such traffic. One unusual route began in a Southern port city, and ran more than 400 miles before entering a major city, from which it ran a little over 300 miles before reaching another major city, and then passed through a state capital on its way to the World's Fair. If you wanted to, you could get off the train within a block or two of the fairgrounds--but you had to go about three miles further find a good hotel. Wanted: the southern origin, the junctions where the car had to be switched (I count four), and the roads that carried the car (mid-20th century names will be accepted). The route is no longer possible, since it is broken in at least two places.
I'll go back a little farther than I had the last two or three times. In 1893, the World's Fair in Chicago was the place to go--especially according to the roads serving Chicago from the East, with several sleeper lines especially set up for such traffic.
One unusual route began in a Southern port city, and ran more than 400 miles before entering a major city, from which it ran a little over 300 miles before reaching another major city, and then passed through a state capital on its way to the World's Fair. If you wanted to, you could get off the train within a block or two of the fairgrounds--but you had to go about three miles further find a good hotel.
Wanted: the southern origin, the junctions where the car had to be switched (I count four), and the roads that carried the car (mid-20th century names will be accepted). The route is no longer possible, since it is broken in at least two places.
From what I've been seeing in other posts conerning this question this could be a Mobile, AL - Chicago through sleeper running on the following schedule:
Mobile-Selma = Mobile & Birmingham #64, Lv. Mobile 11:30 p.m., Ar. Selma 7:00 a.m.
Selma-East Rome = East Tennessee Virginia & Georgia #4, Lv. Selma 9:00 a.m., Ar. East Rome 4:35 p.m.
East Rome-Chattanooga = East Tennessee, Virginia & Georgia (Alabama Division) #18, Lv. East Rome 4:45 p.m., Ar. Chattanooga 7:10 p.m.
Chattanooga-Cincinnati = Queen and Crescent #6, Chicago Limited, Lv. Chattanooga 10:00 p.m., Ar. Cincinnati 6:30 a.m.
Cincinnati-Chicago = Big Four #1, Atlanta and Chicago Limited, Lv. Cincinnati 7:01 a.m., Ar. Chicago 4:35 p.m.
In the June 1893 Official Guide, the Q&C and ETV&G do not mention this sleeper line - only the Big 4 mentions this within their Atlanta and Chicago Limited consist listing.
For the 1893 Worlds Fair, Chicago became the terminus for a number of Pullman car lines that were newly established and also a number of other existing lines that were temporarily rerouted to Chicago. After the Fair, all of this extra Chicago sleeping car capacity was pulled from service. Like this Mobile-Chicago sleeping car line, a number of these new and revised car lines had unique routings that rarely made a reappearance.
Myron Bilas
Johnny
Well done, and welcome back!
Myron, you have it all. It is true that the ETV&G listing shows no sleeper into/out of Mobile; I wonder if after the Exposition ended, there was no longer Wagner (it was a Wagner car, not a Pullman car) service on the line to Mobile.
I just noticed something interesting: there are two ETV&G schedules showing service south from a junction in the Guide: one shows the service down to Brunswick, and the other shows the service to Meridian. In the one, East Rome is at mp 80; in the other, East Rome is at mp 69. After examining the two, I will trust the Georgia Division mileage to East Rome, and not the Alabama Division mileage, for it shows what I know is the mileage to Atlanta.
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