Without an OG handy I'm going to go with Chicago - St. Paul. Fastest: CMStP&P, slowest CGW.You could travel in tourist sleepers on the Milwaukee, and maybe the Burlington. Other roads: Soo (WC), CB&Q and C&NW/CStPM&O. I think this is after the IC/M&St.L car quit.
rcdrye Without an OG handy I'm going to go with Chicago - St. Paul. Fastest: CMStP&P, slowest CGW.You could travel in tourist sleepers on the Milwaukee, and maybe the Burlington. Other roads: Soo (WC), CB&Q and C&NW/CStPM&O. I think this is after the IC/M&St.L car quit.
Rob, you're close but you don't have it right yet.
Mark
So CB&Q was faster? That's about the time that street running in LaCrosse was replaced.
rcdrye So CB&Q was faster? That's about the time that street running in LaCrosse was replaced.
Nope - No cigar for you yet Rob.
So... Looking at the oldest OG I have available I get CMStP&P at a little under 8 hours and Soo(WC) at 13 and a bit. I have a CGW timetable somewhere but can't locate it.
Rob, You're so close to being right that I'm going to declare you the winner. The sleeper route I was looking for was Chi - Minneapolis but St Paul will suffice. The CNW/CStPM&O route via Madison was the shortest line and at the time its Victory was the fastest overnight train with a schedule of 9 hrs - 50 mins.
The Soo had the longest line (50+ mi longer than the CNW) and the slowest schedule;15 hrs - 5 mins. Its Chi - Minneapolis sleeper was carried in unamed No's 17 (NB) and 18 (SB) which didn't serve the Twin Cities but were Chi - Duluth trains. The through cars were dropped off No.17/picked up by No 18 at Owen, WI. They ran between Owen and the Twin Cities in un-named No's 5 and 6.
The fastest overnight trains on the other roads that ran sleepers between Chi and the TC were: Empire Builder and North Coast Ltd on the Burlington - both 10 hrs - 5 min; the Milw's Olympian - 10 hrs - 15 mins.; and the CGW's Minnesotan - 12 hrs - 40 mins.
Let's have the next question please.
By the OG I was looking in, Chicago-Madison-Twin Cities trains were almost as slow as the Soo's entry.
In 1957, this sleeper (and a coach) originated on the longest north-south run in the U.S. and finished on the lowest east-west run.
End points, carriers, and car type.
Not having OG's or similar information, but looking at a USA map, it would appear that a through run from Seattle to New Orleans would could qualify as the longest north-south run, although it is also west-east. A run from El Paso to either Brownsville or Corpus Christie should qualify as the lowest (most southerly) est west. Or did you mean the lowest in elevation above sea level? So, prsumably a coach or sleeper could start out in Seattle and and up in Brownsville or Corpus Christie and be SP all the way, coming off the Sunset Limited at El Paso, and an unnamed branch line train to Brownsville or Corpus Christie.
I think you might wish to define "lowest."
A fair question. Lowest altitude crossing of the continental divide.
in 1957, Seattle to New Orleans required two car changes via Oakland and LA, or one via Chicago. This was an every day coach and sleeper pair.
In 1957 ws there a coach and sleeper pair that made it all the way from New York to LA via the Crescent or Piedmont, PRR, Sou, West Point Rt., L&N, to New Orleans and then the SP's Sunset Lmtd. to LA?
No, through car service had been dropped via New Orleans, though of course still active via Chicago. It might help to say that the north-south run touched or crossed all of what are usually considered the (U.S.) transcontinental routes.
rcdrye By the OG I was looking in, Chicago-Madison-Twin Cities trains were almost as slow as the Soo's entry. In 1957, this sleeper (and a coach) originated on the longest north-south run in the U.S. and finished on the lowest east-west run. End points, carriers, and car type.
Johnny
You found the one I was looking for. The Twin Star was considered by some the longest north-south run, since the Texas Chief was (sort of) a northeast-southwest run. The interesting note on the cars is that they were built in 1954, very late for new sleepers, and were also fairly low capacity, with fewer roomettes than the more common 10&6. The Golden State Route was advertised for years as the best route (at least from Chicago) for heart patients due to its low crossing of the divide.
Until the Crescent was completely re-equipped with lightweight sleepers, it carried a club-lounge (radio) between Washington and Atlanta. What lightweight car replaced this car, what were the sleeping accommodations, and what word was common to the names of all the cars of this type? Did any other train carry such a car?
A note to the NY-LA through service: I know of no through coach ever operated through New Orleans or through Chicago (nor through St. Louis/Kansas City, though Amtrak did operate a through sleeper on this route).
Deggesty Until the Crescent was completely re-equipped with lightweight sleepers, it carried a club-lounge (radio) between Washington and Atlanta. What lightweight car replaced this car, what were the sleeping accommodations, and what word was common to the names of all the cars of this type? Did any other train carry such a car?
Would this be a Pullman 10 sec. Restaurant Lounge car? I'm not sure if these were lightweight cars however .In 1946 a car of the same type ran in the Q&C detween Cincinnati and NO.
Incidentally I found Markwald shown in the March 46 OG but no trains stopped there. The same OG also shows that No's 43 and 44 met at Vossburg. The time for both trains at that point is listed as 1:48 pm.
Mark, there were no lightweight 10 sec. Restaurant-Lounge cars.
As to February, 1946 (I do not have anything of that date, but do have a September, 1946 timetable, which shows the same car), since there was the restaurant-lounge sleeper, it was not necessary to take a meal service car off short of New Orleans and put it on the northbound train.
The lounge sleeper replacements on the Crescent Limited were the Crescent series sleeper lounges (2DR 1 Master Room). Car names I can remember were:
Crescent City
Crescent Harbor
Crescent Moon
I think the fouth one was Crescent Shores
They remained in service until the Amtrak takeover in 1979. I rode in the Master Room in Crescent Harbor in 1974 from Atlanta to Washington.
Rob, you have the right description of the cars and the right word that was common to all four names--and you are right as to to the name of the fourth car. Southern operated the cars Washington-Atlanta on the Southern Crescent, which was the only other train scheduled to carry such cars.
In 1964, I slept in the lounge of one of the cars from Greenville to Gainesville, where the porter put me into a bedroom in Caroline County (RF&P 10-6 built for service on the ACL) for the rest of my trip to Atlanta (I had started from Charlotte on #35, and because I was not able to sleep I changed in Greenville to the Crescent).
Now, you may give us a new question.
I am not familiar with the term "Master Room". Would it be similar to a Drawing Room? How many berths?
A master room had two lower berths and a shower, as well as a toilet annex (I think the shower had its own enclosure, unlike the showers in Amtrak bedrooms), and apparently had seating for six people, since Pullman required six seat tickets for day service.
The Master Room-Bedroom Observation Lounge cars built for the 1937 Century were rebuilt (1949?) as 4 Bedroom Observation Lounge cars for the Commodore Vanderbilt, and were replaced by the famous 5 Bedroom-Observation Bar Lounge Hickory Creek and Sandy Creek.
In 1937, the PRR began operating 2 Drawing Room-Master Room-Obs-Buffet Lounge cars on the Broadway (Metropolitan View and Skyline View). In 1949, these were displaced by Mountain View and Tower View--and apparently operated on the General.
In 1950, no other trains had cars with master rooms assigned to them.
Amtrak's 1972 summer-only through service from NY to LA on the National Limited and the Chief carried a coach and a sleeper. I rode the sleeper in August 1972.
In 1935 the Pennsy offered (in partnership with the New Haven) a fast merchandise freight train that operated from Baltimore and Philadelphia to New England via Penn Station and Hell Gate Bridge. What was the train's name?
rcdrye In 1935 the Pennsy offered (in partnership with the New Haven) a fast merchandise freight train that operated from Baltimore and Philadelphia to New England via Penn Station and Hell Gate Bridge. What was the train's name?
Would the name be the Speed Witch?
That's it. I'm going to assume the cars for the service were carefully selected to meet the clearance requirements. Your question.
Next question.....
You could have boarded a train with this name in Washington D.C., Columbus, OH, or Sacramento, CA, not necessarily in the same time period. Give the name the trains shared, the railroads and the destinations of each train.
capitol? capitol limited?
daveklepper capitol? capitol limited?
Nope, that isn't it...but you have the right approach.
National? National Limited?
daveklepper National? National Limited?
Nope....
Capitol City Special - NYC Cleveland - Columbus
Capitol Corridor - UP (AMTRAK) Auburn - Sacramento - San Jose
Capitol Ltd. B&0 Washington - Chicago
KCSfan Capitol City Special - NYC Cleveland - Columbus Capitol Corridor - UP (AMTRAK) Auburn - Sacramento - San Jose Capitol Ltd. B&0 Washington - Chicago Mark
Good try, but nope. The three trains I'm looking for had the same name, not variations of one.
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