Dave is close, though. The Aberdeen & Rockfish owns the Ervin-Dunn segment of the Durham & Southern, which shared officers and an OG page with the Piedmont & Northern. The "projected" section of the P&N between Charlotte, Greensboro and Durham to connect it with the D&S, like P&N's own gap closing segment, was never built, though it showed on OG maps into the 1950s. Acquired by SCL in 1981, the D&S was mostly spun off or abandoned. About 20 miles remain as part of CSX. The original charter and operation before 1906 was under the name Cape Fear and Northern, but it never reached tidewater. Both railroads were owned by the Duke family, the D&S serving lumber and tobacco producing areas.
D&S ran from Durham to Dunn NC, with interchanges with Southern, ACL and SAL.
D&S had several second-hand Baldwin road switchers, including the only Soo Line Baldwin that was sold for further service. Three of them were sold to Rail to Water Transfer in Chicago, where they operated in D&S paint until the early 1980s.
Sorry, Dave, it was not the Aberdeen and Rockfish.
Johnny
Just a guess: Aberdeen and Rockfish?
Yes the SAL or one of its successors absorbed some of the P&N.
Another shortline shared various officers and other personnel with the P&N. Name it, its terminals, and its unfulfilled aspiration.
Congrats Deggesty, right on and with extra credit...next question is yours.
It was freight only when I had projects in the Carolinas, but I did see its locomotives and ovehead wire in Charlotte, usually after arriving or before departing on a Southern Ry train, most often the Piedmont Limited. You got the answer before I could, and I look forward to your quesition.
I think part of the P&N survives as part of CSX.
The Piedmont and Northern was unique in its operation since its two divisions could not be joined into one; One segment ran between Charlotte and Gastonia, North Carolina (with a branch to Belmont); the other segment ran between Spartanburg and Greenwood, South Carolina (with a branch to Anderson). I believe it was the Southern that blocked its desire (the proposed connection parraleld the Southern between Gastonia and Spartanburg). The road apparently was lined with cotton mills, since it proclaimed "A Mill to the Mile."
I was never able to ride it, but often when I went up to Charlotte by Greyhound, I could see an engine or two as the bus passed the yard.
Here goes...This small class one eastern railroad had its roots as an interurban line. Its two divisions covered two states, the problem, they were not connected. An attempt to connect them was made but some neigboring railroads blocked the work by filing a law suit alleging it would create a monopoly primarily in the textile industry. The textile industry had some influence on the roads slogan. The Supreme Court agreed and the connection project abandonded. What railroad, what States and what road was primarily responsible for the suit? Extra credit, what was the slogan?
K4sPRR was the first to get it right and gets the next question.
The Union Consolidated Elevated Railway, built over Van Buren Street and intended to provide a connection to the Metropolitan West Side Elevated at Market Street (Wacker Drive) initially requested a franchise all the way from Wabash to Halsted, about double the actual length built, since that part of Van Buren was mostly industrial and an easier section to get frontage signatures. The section actually built was commercial, and the property owners wanted the line shifted to a different street. The section between Wabash and Wells remaining today makes up the south edge of the Loop.
Chicago once had an ordinance that required any building of elevated rail to be done only with the approval of property owners adjacent to the rails of which many initially declined
Perhaps in steam days the danger of hot cinters falling on people and horses was promulgated?
Sorry for the delay. And now for the question: A substantial portion of Chicago's elevated railway system was not built over city streets. Why was this done?
Looking forward to CSS's question.
The Chicago Ottawa and Peoria was relatively successful as midwest interurbans go, surviving the connecting Aurora Plainfield and Joliet, and the Chicago and Joliet Electric. Four ex-CO&P cars were tranferred to parent Illinois Terminal, where they served in suburban service out of St. Louis, and as shuttles between the Peoria and East Peoria IT stations for the postwar streamlined IT trains.
The line was the Chicago, Ottawa & Peoria, operating between Joliet and Princeton.
Name the midwestern interurban that was supposed to get Illinois Traction to Chicago - it only touched one of the three cities in its name.
From the timetables of the time, judging by the train numbers, the car was switched at Oakdale, Knoxville, Asheville, and Columbia.
I am not certain about the divisions at that time, but, from known divisions in later years, the train moved from one division to another in Spartanburg without a change in number, and remained on one division from Oakdale/Harriman Junction to Spartanburg--with switching moves..
As to Oakdale, the public timetables of both roads show no stop at Harriman junction, so I assumed that the change was made at Oakdale--which required that the Southern train move on CNO&TP tracks for about four miles. Of course, after the Southern Railway System came into being, it was all, essentially, one railroad.
In 1956, I made a trip from Chattanooga to Bristol on the Birmingham Special, and we had to go up the CNO&TP because of a derailment at Riceville. Naturally, we had to have pilots --who took us to Oakdale. Leaving Oakdale, we backed to the junction, and then on to Knoxville. I doubt that the Chattanooga-Knoxville crews were qualified on the Oakdale to Knoxville section, even though it was on the Knoxville Division.
How about Oakdale and Knoxville, Tenn., Asheville NC (a little layover?) and Columbia SC (Spartanburg SC would also make sense). I know Oakdale isn't the actual junction, but I think it was a division point and a regular spot for switching.
Yes, Hardeeville was the junction where the Southern began using trackage rights over the ACL to Jacksonville.
Now, where was the car switched from one train to another? It traveled in five different trains on its way.
If Charleston is excluded, it looks like the Southern and ACL met up at Hardeesville, just north of Savanna. Otherwise the C&WC creeps back in via Allendale...
Since he Southern Railway and the CNO&TP were not in the same operating system at the time; they had separate listings in the guide.
The ACL handled the car in a Southern train between X and Jacksonville--but Columbia was not the point at which the train left Southern rails. The route was almost a direct line to Savannah (and Savannah was not the point, either).
Do you have maps that show both the ACL and COuthern in SOuth Carolina?
So.. it went via Saluda to Columbia. I assume the CNO&TP, and NOT the AGS is the first trackage rights railroad. Handoff to ACL at Columbia (the Capital of South Carolina) would almost require a route via Charleston, so I'll drop it down to Savannah (a seaport in Georgia) before handing it off (It also could have gone via Augusta). I'm still missing the second trackage rights route, but I can't find an SR system map between 1894 and 1921 on line.
The car went through one state capital on its way, and it passed through a seaport in another state.
It also traversed a dangerous steep grade.
No, it did not go through Atlanta.
One of the trackage agreements covered about 153 miles; the other one covered about 4 miles; two other Southern trains also used this short distance; one of them ran only to the first division point from the junction, and the other one continued on down to a seaport in South Carolina.
At the time, the car traveled in one name train for 254 miles and in nameless trains for the rest of its run; in later years another name train (named for the northern end of its run), which went from one of the points along the car's way to Jacksonville, ran on appoximately the same schedule, which was afternoon to morning southbound and night to late morning northbound.
So... from the point of status... Cincinnati, Atlanta, Savannah, Jacksonville with some unknown handoff point between Savannah and Jacksonville?
Brunswick was more or less a dead end--there was no through service. The car did go through Savannah on a through train, with no change of railroad.
Well, so far we've eliminatd Charleston. Since at this point I'm just guessing, I nominate Savannah and Brunswick (which would kill off some time in a long trip...).
Well, you just named one of the two roads that granted trackage rights, but it was not the GS&F, which at the time simply shared Mr. Harrison as President (not Chairman) along with the Q&C and the Southern. However, you have the wrong junction for this car (the KC-Florida Special did move off the Southern at Jesup).
Couldn't be as simple as the Georgia Southern & Florida, could it? The GS&F was still semi-independent, at least in image, in 1918, and shows up as a thin line on the 1921 SR system map. The other section may have been a bit of the Alabama Great Southern entering Atlanta. The alternative to the GS&F was ACL south of Jesup, GA to Jacksonville.
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