rcdrye How about the Atlantic and Yadkin between Greensboro (Southern) and Sanford NC (Seaboard).
How about the Atlantic and Yadkin between Greensboro (Southern) and Sanford NC (Seaboard).
Johnny
In 1916, the Queen and Crescent Route had not been fully absorbed by the Southern System (which was then a consolidation primarily of the Richmond and Danville and the East Tennessee Virginia and Georgia under the name "Southern Railroad").
So, the two roads have been named. What roads were used by way of trackage rights? Where was the car swirched from one train to another?
Edited to correct spellung; I thought I had proofread it before posting originally.
You're right on the CNO&TP and somewhat right on the Southern. However, rhe car did not go through Charleston (neither did the C&WC).
The C&WC and SAL crossed at Fairfax, S.C.
At that time, Fairfax Harrison was President of the Queen & Crescent as well as the Southern RR.
I did not know of a Cincinnati-Jacksonville sleeper that went through Charleston. I can imagine a really interesting route--Cincinnati-Ashland-Elkhorn City-Spartanburg-Charleston-Jacksonville.
If the C&WC had been in the routing, the car might have beens switched at Yemassee (junction with the ACL) since the C&WC and ACL had a board chairman in common.
Gotta get a 1916 OG...
Cincinnati CNO&TP Southern Spartanburg C&WC Charleston Seaboard Jacksonville.
I know there was a Cincinnati-Jacksonville sleeper via Charleston. This route looks like it could actually have worked. I don't think Southern completed its takeover of CNO&TP until 1922 or thereabouts, which is why I'm counting it as trackage rights.
Back to Cincinnati-Jacksonville through sleeper service.
In 1916, there was a through Cincinnati-Jacksonville sleeper that traveled in five trains on its way south and on its way north. It was operated by two roads, one of which utilized trackage rights on two roads, and took two nights and a day to make the journey each way.
Name the roads, including the roads that granted trackage rights, and the stations where the car was moved from one train to another.
Deggesty The Santa Fe?
The Santa Fe?
You got it.
In 1924, the Santa Fe handled a Denver-Jacksonville Pullman, a car line usually handled by the Rock Island between Denver and Kansas City.
When the RI had the car, it was normally handled by a Chicago-Denver train between Denver and Belleville, Kansas, where it was switched to the Colorado & St. Louis Express/St. Louis & Colorado Express for the trip to Kansas City. At least one season the car was handled by the Express all the way between Denver and Kansas City. When Santa Fe operated the sleeper, leaving Denver the car was handled on #23 to La Junta, where it was switched to #10, the Scout, for the trip to Kansas City. Westbound, #21, the Missionary, took the car from Kansas City to Newton, where #5 the Colorado Express, handled it to Denver. East of Kansas City the Pullman was handled by the Kansas City-Florida Special to/from Jacksonville.
I believe this was the only time Santa Fe handled a regularly scheduled Florida Pullman. Why they were involved in handling this sleeper I have no idea - it may had been an experiment of some sort. During this time Santa Fe also handled a Los Angeles-Birmingham Pullman that also ran via the Kansas City-Florida Special.
This information is contained in the second volume of "From the Midwest to Florida by Rail, 1875-1979", a publication that I co-authored and is published by the Pennsylvania Railroad Technical and Historical Society.
Johnny, you get the next question.
rcdrye That leaves only the MoPac (Joint w/ D&RGW north of Pueblo). UP's Yellowstone car apparently only ran in 1925. Did MP carry the car that year?
That leaves only the MoPac (Joint w/ D&RGW north of Pueblo). UP's Yellowstone car apparently only ran in 1925. Did MP carry the car that year?
It wasn't MoPac either. The Yellowstone car was handled via the Wabash to KC, then UP beyond.
Deggesty I would say that if it was just one road that carried the car between Denver and Kansas City, it would have been the Burlington.
I would say that if it was just one road that carried the car between Denver and Kansas City, it would have been the Burlington.
It wasn't the Burlington.
Deggesty ZephyrOverland Deggesty In 1917, there was a Denver-Jacksonville sleeper--Rock Island to Kansas City, Frisco to Birmingham, and Southern Birmingham to Jacksonville. Johnny, you're dancing with the answer. You got the endpoints and the railroad that usually handled the sleeper from Denver. The last piece that is needed is the other railroad that handled the sleeper to/from Denver for one year (and what year was that). I will guess that the UP carried the car between Denver and Kansas City for a year, but I have not the slightest idea as to what year it was. A Southern timetable from 1917 is my only source here, since my copy of Night Trains (which may have the answers) is several miles from where I am and it may be buried in a box with other railroad books.
ZephyrOverland Deggesty In 1917, there was a Denver-Jacksonville sleeper--Rock Island to Kansas City, Frisco to Birmingham, and Southern Birmingham to Jacksonville. Johnny, you're dancing with the answer. You got the endpoints and the railroad that usually handled the sleeper from Denver. The last piece that is needed is the other railroad that handled the sleeper to/from Denver for one year (and what year was that).
Deggesty In 1917, there was a Denver-Jacksonville sleeper--Rock Island to Kansas City, Frisco to Birmingham, and Southern Birmingham to Jacksonville.
In 1917, there was a Denver-Jacksonville sleeper--Rock Island to Kansas City, Frisco to Birmingham, and Southern Birmingham to Jacksonville.
Johnny, you're dancing with the answer. You got the endpoints and the railroad that usually handled the sleeper from Denver. The last piece that is needed is the other railroad that handled the sleeper to/from Denver for one year (and what year was that).
I will guess that the UP carried the car between Denver and Kansas City for a year, but I have not the slightest idea as to what year it was.
A Southern timetable from 1917 is my only source here, since my copy of Night Trains (which may have the answers) is several miles from where I am and it may be buried in a box with other railroad books.
UP is not the answer, although they did occasionally handled through sleepers to southern points.
rcdrye The only other Jacksonville -> far west Pullman lineI have found a reference for so far went from Jacksonville to West Yellowstone Montana via the Dixie Route to St. Louis, Wabash to Kansas City and UP west from there. I could imagine an alternate to Gardiner Montana via Chicago and CB&Q/NP, via St Paul or Omaha. USRA involvement in 1920?
The only other Jacksonville -> far west Pullman lineI have found a reference for so far went from Jacksonville to West Yellowstone Montana via the Dixie Route to St. Louis, Wabash to Kansas City and UP west from there. I could imagine an alternate to Gardiner Montana via Chicago and CB&Q/NP, via St Paul or Omaha. USRA involvement in 1920?
The Jacksonville-West Yellowstone Pullman you mention was operated only in the summer of 1925. The car line I'm looking for ran for several summer seasons in the 1920's, after USRA control had ended.
The western point I'm looking for was not as far west as West Yellowstone.
During the Florida boom of the 1920's, Pullman car lines fanned out from Florida to different parts of the country. The longest (but short lived) car line of this type was operated from Jacksonville to Los Angeles via SAL, L&N and SP. There was another seasonal Jacksonville-western U.S. Pullman car line that existed through most of the 1920's and that car was handled on its western end by one railroad through most of this car lines life.
Most, that is, except for one year.
That year, the car was handled by another western railroad that was not known for handling Florida sleepers.
What was that Pullman car line endpoints, who normally handled it on the western portion, and which railroad instead handled the car that one year (and what year this occurred)?
I was looking for the Owl. SP also dropped the "Limited" for short periods of time so the SP guys rate the Owl as the longets continuously used name. The T&NO Owl was shorter-lived, down to a coach-only overnight train by the early 1950s. It outlived the Hustler by a bit, ending on June 7, 1958 to close out H&TC/T&NO service between Dallas and Houston.
SP's Owl was the mail and express overnight train on the West Valley line. It carried a sleeper right up to the end, one of SP's 9100 series 6sec 6rmt 4dbr cars. It also carried an ex-Daylight artuclated coach.
rcdrye One of them is right, and its name was shared by another SP name train.
One of them is right, and its name was shared by another SP name train.
Based on my previous submission, neither the Owl nor the Lark would qualify for your answer since the Sunset Limited name (in various forms) had an overall longer existence (77 years) than that of the other two. Now, if you consider the Sunset Limited and Sunset as separate names, the former existed for 64 years (1894 to 1958), which means that the Owl would be the answer to your question (at 67 years, applied to Oakland-Los Angeles and Dallas-Houston runs).
rcdrye The Sunset Limited name continues in use, but for the last 47 years, it has belonged to Amtrak, not Southern Pacific. The secondary SP name train not only ran under the same name longer than the Sunset Limited did for SP, but it's name was shared with another train on a different run.
The Sunset Limited name continues in use, but for the last 47 years, it has belonged to Amtrak, not Southern Pacific. The secondary SP name train not only ran under the same name longer than the Sunset Limited did for SP, but it's name was shared with another train on a different run.
The Sunset Limited (with and without the "Limited" status) operated under the SP flag for 77 years. The only SP train names that I'm familiar with that were applied to two separate runs are the Owl (Oakland-Los Angeles; Dallas-Houston) which existed for 67 years and the Lark (Los Angeles-San Francisco; Dallas-San Antonio) which existed for 58 years.
Can we assume that the two names I mentioned are not what you are looking for and there is another name that would answer your question?
We have a winner here. rcdrye, it's your question.
The "Flat Door Sixes" 6001-6200 have flat doors recessed from the fishbelly curce of the carbody. They were built new by St Louis Car. There were also some variations in conductor controls and headlight within the series. The remainder had new carbodies (also StLCC) with new curved doors matching the carbodies. They were equipped with window parts, door motors, propulsion equipment and some seat parts from CTA's postwar PCC streetcars.
The most remarkable features of the Flat Door Sixes were the footholds on each side of the car on the drawbar end (All of the 6000 series were "married pairs"). The conductor was originally expected to operate the train doors from that position, with one foot on each car. The conductor's position was pretty quickly relocated to the inside of the car.
I'll stick with Chicago PCC's, only rapid transit this time. What feature distinguishes the first 200 CTA PCC rapid transit cars from the rest of the fleet?
CSSHEGEWISCH I'm going to say that the fleet in question is Chicago Surface Lines/CTA.
I'm going to say that the fleet in question is Chicago Surface Lines/CTA.
Some of the PCC schemes were very bright, even before Pittsburgh's PAT created the "Mod Desire" scheme on car 1730.
http://www.streetcarmike.com/patransit/pat_pcc1730_mountlebanonblvd_oct211973.jpg
So, another PCC question: This city's entire fleet of PCCs was delivered with hand controls, though many cars were modifed for pedal control later for optional one man/two man operation.
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