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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, August 7, 2018 6:56 AM

EMD/GMD's unwillingness to do much more than tweak the basic GP7/GP9 formula is pretty interesting.  It took UP's turbo program and GE's agressive entry with the U25B to push EMD over the edge.

This railroad re-engined mainline freight locomotives of one brand with new engine from a second manufacturer, and then turned around and re-used the surplus engines in switchers made by the second manufacturer.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Tuesday, August 7, 2018 12:34 AM

There's something familiar about that logo...

The original Alberta Midland Railway was a subsiduary that Canadian Northern used to construct branchlines in central Alberta during the early 1900s:

http://railways.library.ualberta.ca/Chapters-8-4/

S.I. Smith (second from the right in the photo) is a key member of the Canadian Northern Society, which does historical outreach & education and has restored several stations.  He chose the AMRT's name and logo. 

http://canadiannorthern.ca/

http://albertamidlandrail.com/

They have also since aquired a ex-CP SD40-2 to help accomodate their growing business.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, August 6, 2018 3:59 PM

You have company with that thought Dave, I did the exact same thing.

rcdrye--- Right you are. Instead of a 567C 1750hp it was buit with a 567D and rated at 1800hp.

Not only that but it is still in service today!

NPR 1695 first day traffic received. November 1, 2017

Maybe this should have been the question instead. (What happened to it?)

Damn Mikado killers. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 6, 2018 9:29 AM

Talking about not thinking "out of the box," I simply forgot that lomotives are painted too, and kept racking my brain about passenger equipment painted maroon!    How dumb!

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, August 6, 2018 6:32 AM

CPR 8839 was really sort of a GP18, with a 567D engine.

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, August 6, 2018 3:16 AM

Had a nice steam loco question but I can't find the darn picture which I need to ask the question. It is late, I have had a very trying 48 hours despite Friday being a banner day and everything went right, but since then it has been awful. So against my normal way of thinking I'm going to ask a Diesel question ( good grief, this hurts).

CPR largest Diesel order was for 200 GP9's, which stood as its largest order until the SD40's came along. The very very last one built #8839 was just a bit different in spec's from all the others and the only one built that way out of the 200. What was the difference.

8839 last of 200 GP9's... unique 

 

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, July 31, 2018 4:49 PM

CGW of course! Duh. I'm getting old. Thanks.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, July 31, 2018 4:43 PM

Rock Island and Chicago Great Western - CGW's trains were the "Twin Cities Limited" and "Nebraska Limited".  Rock Island was the first to drop through service (you could still change in Des Moines).

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, July 31, 2018 4:34 PM

rcdrye-- who were the 2 competitors who used Maroon in the Diesel era? Rock Island? Soo didn't go to Omaha did they? 

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, July 31, 2018 4:24 PM

Both the Nightingale an the North American changed direction en route (you can see the numbers on page 12 of the timetable).  By 1948 both were carrying through Pullmans to Los Angeles, with an 8-1-2 heavyweight on the Nightingale (201-2-201 and 202-1-202), and a lightweight 6-6-4 on the North American (203-10-203 and 204-9-204) which was a day train. Omaha Road had its own Webster Street station in Omaha.  Trains like the North American used C&NW's line south of Sioux City to Council Bluffs to get to Union Station so cars could be interchanged to Union Pacific's trains to the west, changing timetable direction twice in the process.  The Nightingale's through cars via the Gold Coast and Pony Express were discontinued first, but all through cars were gone by 1955, and Twin Cities-Omaha trains by the early 1960s. CStPM&O's unnamed train direct to Omaha ran as 209 and 210 all the way.

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, July 31, 2018 3:27 PM

Is this it?



Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis, and Omaha 

What came to be known as the "Omaha Road" began as the Tomah & Lake St. Croix
in Wisconsin on April 1, 1863. After expansions and consolidations it acquired the name Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha on May 25, 1880. Controlled by Chicago & North Western after 1882 and operated as a part of C&NW system, comprising the lines north of Elroy, Wis., and Omaha to Minneapolis-St. Paul and Ashland, Wis. The corporation lasted until 1957, and its official identity was maintained until 1972
.”


Name train could be the Nightingale in 1939 C&NW timetable. Sorry, don't know anything about reverse direction. 

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, July 30, 2018 2:03 PM

How about I add "before 1955"....

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, July 25, 2018 7:28 AM

Let's see if I can add a few things. 

The train I'm looking four ran between three cities, all of them in the corporate name of the company which was part of a larger system. Two of them were close together.

Through cars were (generally) going a long way west, but not so much north. 

All cars on the line's trains in the postwar era, including through cars, had yellow paint, even if of different shades, and with different secondary colors. 

The southernost (westernmost) point served was a major railroad junction with a union station, even though the line had trains that also used its own station. 

The two competitors on the route offered one-seat or one-berth service and both favored maroon paint in the diesel era.

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 2:00 PM

Soo Line and Canadian Pacific? Soo Dominion as an example. 

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 6:15 AM

daveklepper

By competitors you refer to other than the railroad and its owner railroad in the question?

 

Although other routes were possibe, there were three railroads that had one-seat (or at least one-berth) service beteween the endpoints. 

The railroad I'm looking for, and its western connection, also shared a common color, though local and through cars had different shades.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 4:03 AM

By competitors you refer to other than the railroad and its owner railroad in the question?

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, July 23, 2018 6:56 AM

Not NC&St.L.  Aside from being (arguably) not midwestern, it was independent.  This railroad I'm looking for shared its parent's bright color scheme, though some cars carried for connection used a different, equally bright scheme.  Maybe it will help if I mention that the chief competitors on the route both favored maroon in their diesel era paint schemes.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 22, 2018 8:32 AM

Nashville, Chattanooga and St. Louis, part of the Lousville and Nashville system, with its own Chattanooga station.   Dixieland, Dixie Flyer, Dixie Flagler.

North-to-South number direction changes:  Nashville, Columbia, Stevenson.

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, July 21, 2018 6:54 AM

This midwestern raiload, part of a larger system, ran trains connecting the last three of its namesake cities.  Southbound secondary trains ran timetable west on its own line, terminating at its own station not shared with other railroads. Trains that contributed to its parents through train services ran timetable east on its parents line for 100 miles or so before resuming their original westbound numbers to cross a major river, terminating in a union station its parent shared with its through service partners.  Name the railroad, the places where it "reversed direction" and maybe a name train on the route.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, July 18, 2018 10:00 AM

On looking over your answer again, I think you have the whole story except for the following:

The Rio Grande Zephyr was cut back from Ogden to Salt Lake City in 1972, with van/taxi service provided Salt Lake City-Ogden for all through ticketed passengers connecting to and from Amtrak to and from the west at Ogden 1972-1983.  

You did mention SP.  Go ahead and ask the next question.   Thanks

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:48 AM

Correction, the Burlington System included of course all subsidaries, but what I neglected was that the Burlington System, Burlington Northern, and BNSF could be regarded as three separate railroads, unlike the UP before and after swallowing the SP, WP, and D&RGW that came with the SP.  So the five really ought to be severn.  And I am not referring only to the classic period but all time.  

RC, you are almost there, now complete the job.

As an example, the D&RGW could be inlcuded just because it handled the Colorado Springs equipment of the Denver Zephyr.  But of course it is included also because of more important reasons.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, July 18, 2018 6:24 AM

CZ - CB&Q(BN), D&RGW, WP Chicago - Denver - Salt Lake City - Oakland 1948-1970

California Zephyr Service BN,D&RGW 1970-1971

Rio Grande Zephyr D&RGW 1971-1983 Denver-Ogden

D&RGW carried Denver Zephyr cars Denver-Colorado Springs 1956-1966

Zephyr Rocket  - CRI&P Twin Cities CRI&P Burlington IA CB&Q St. Louis 1941-1967

Sam Houston Zephyr - Burlington-Rock Island Fort Worth-Dallas Houston 1936-1966  Operated by FW&D as part of Joint Texas Division after 1964.

Amtrak's use of the Zephyr name is complicated by the use of the San Francisco Zephyr name when the train was still operated Chicago-Denver-Cheyenne-Ogden-Oakland by BN-UP-SP, still as a contract train until 1974.  The name stuck until the California Zephyr name was adopted in 1983 with the switch to D&RGW/SP, now UP, and using the ex-WP from Salt Lake City to Wells Nevada.

This list leaves out the C&S/FW&D Texas Zephyr between Denver and Fort Worth/Dallas 1940-1967 - but that was really a Burlington Route train.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, July 18, 2018 3:30 AM

The name Zephyr is associated mainly with the Burlington System, the CB&Q and its subsidiaries.  But five other railroads at one time or another, including of course today, had and have resonsibilties for Zephyrs, not counting temrinal access and yard trackage.  Name all five railroads and the specific trains and terminals and junctions with other railroads, some of course more than one train.  Optional extra:  periods of operation.

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, July 16, 2018 10:04 AM
Subject: Johnny



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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, July 15, 2018 10:10 PM

Yeah well so is graphite. Diamond is a mineral. The periodic table doesn't say 'Diamond' it says Carbon. 

It doesn't matter still luv ya anyway. 

Have to admit when I read the question I immediately thought of the LV Black Diamond, but then I said, "naw, he said element", so I actually did go to the periodic table to see if any train names could be found matching something very hard. Thought maybe something with Iron.

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, July 15, 2018 7:53 PM

The second train on the IC at that time was the Night Diamond.

Dave found the roads and two of the three names.

Please: diamonds are crystalline carbon.

Johnny

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, July 15, 2018 7:24 PM

The "Daylight" and "Night" Diamonds would have been running in '53 (they came off in 1958).  Meanwhile, wasn't the very oldest named train IC ran between Chicago and St. Louis the "Diamond Special"?

Still have nothing whatsoever to do with carbon in any form... Big Smile  The Green Diamond is the color and geometrical shape of the IC herald.

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, July 15, 2018 2:28 PM

Dave, at another time, there may have been a thorugh coach to Toronto--but not in 1953. 

Yes, the IC did have another train with "Diamond" in its name. You did name the roads that in 1953 showed trains with that word in the names of trains. What name might be possible for another train?

Johnny

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 15, 2018 2:21 PM

What the answere to my answer tells me is that the IC had another Diamond beside the Green Diamond.  Without the necessary resources, I have not found this train.

But I would also point out that at various times, my memory says the Black Diamond, running opposite to the Maple Leaf, also had one or two through coahes to and from Toronto, via unnamed CN trains.  Am I correct on this?  Or did the Mapel Leaf provide the only through service.

The thought occurs that perhaps at the time, the IC had a branch-line train that connected with the Green Diamond.  If the IC served Peoria via a branch line, possibly there was a Peoria Diamond branch-line connecting train.

While the name Black Daimond was picked to exhole the main frieight commodity that paid the bills, still, the diamond-shaped herald was not a good picture of any lump of coal that I ever saw.  Painting a diamond black (or green) still keeps it a diamond.  Or does it?   Was the name Green Diamond kept by the IC when the original articulated was replaced by differently painted post-war liightweight equipment?

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, July 15, 2018 2:17 PM

Diamonds are extremely hard carbon. There was no thought of coal when I posed the question.

Johnny

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