I was an undergraduate at MIT. 1949-1953, grad school to 1954 and again 1956-1957. During this time a sister and her family lived in Detroit. I rode the B&A, usually the Wolverine, regularly. The J2s were replaced entirely by EMD E-7 and E-8 power, usually one A and on B unit, sometimes A-B-A, rarely A-A back-to-back. I never rode the Boston section of this train with less than two units. I did not ride the N. E. States during this period, but did ride both trains often 1957-1967. From 1948, from observations, the New England States was powered similarly, A-B-A perhaps more often. And from 1950, two units usual on the Ohio State Limited's Boston section.
I think I rode behind a J2 only once on the Boston section of the Wolverine before steam came off this train.
While steam lasted, the J2s were supplemented by dual-service Mowahks with small tenders on the through Albany trains, with the Pacifics mostly running Boston - Springfield on locals and on the interline New Haven trains to New York via the inland route. J2s were also used on the latter on occasion, especially after the New England States got diesels before the other trains.
I did not see Alco passemger power on the B&A except the RS-3s on suburban trains.
daveklepperIf memory is correct, B & A steam was completely gone by January 1952.
That would be right -- but at least some of the J2s did not die when their B&A duty ended. There are pictures of them in service out of Weehawken on the West Shore, and it might be interesting to find out how long they ran there. It's possible some were assigned in other service, too; it stands to reason the locomotives Mr. Klepper reported might be Hudsons.
Sorry for missing that big, square sandbox -- a major difference!
I should qualify what I was saying about dieselization. I do not really know whether most or all of the early NYC passenger-diesel purchases went toward the well-advertised 'Dieseliner' services (how many of these were Boston trains or had 'Boston sections' that were diesel-hauled?) in the early years of that program. It would be interesting to see when, and with what classes of engine, the J2s were replaced on B&A trains.
NP EddieWhat is a "sagging cab"?
If you look at photographs of the J2 Hudsons, some of them have cabs that visibly tilt toward the rear. Al Staufer in Thoroughbreds devoted some discussion to what might have caused this (e.g. boiler expansion causing the cab to be pulled down by the rear support plate - his expression, not mine) and he does make multiple reference to the saggy cabs in his picture captions.
Overmod, you got enough right to ask the next question, and I apologize for not getting back earlier. You left out the square sand dome, of larger capacity than those on the J1. The smaller tender was adquate for Boston - Albany, but lacked both coal and water capacity, the latter repairable by scoops if installed, for Harmon - Buffalo or Colingwood - Chicago.
I assure you from personal experience that the B&A was dieselized completely before most of the rest of the Central's system, for the reasons you indicated. This even inclulded RS3s and Budd RDCs in Boston suburban service, replacing Pacifics and 4-6-6Ts. If memory is correct, B & A steam was completely gone by January 1952.
If I remember correctly, the Mohawks that ran on the B&A also had smaller tenders, but not quite so small.
I did see some B&A power around that time on the Michigan Central in the Detroit area, but don't recall what or why.
Sagging cabs? I am willing to learn what you mean by that.
What is a "sagging cab"?
Ed Burns
Well there were two: the 75" drivers and the smaller tenders. I don't know if the lack of cistern volume and high-speed scooping gear was necessarily a drawback in the kind of long-distance service that an early Hudson would be expected to handle after dieselization -- this presumes that most of the B&A passenger traffic was dieselized before the push for "Dieseliners" on the Water Level Route, something I would be dubious about regardless of the advantages of dieselization for freight traffic across the Berkshires.
I don't suppose sagging cabs count as a viewable 'difference' that would make the locomotives unsuitable for passenger service ... but it sure did make them look sad!
OK,I will but in. What were the obvious, viewable, differences between the original NYCentral J1 Hudsons and the J2s. And what was the main difference that made the J2s usuitable for long-distance service once the territory of their built-for application was dieselized early-on. A correctable difference. But I do not know if any got a correction.
Since I've answered the last two questions, I'll let somebody else pose the next question.
CSSHEGEWISCH I'm going to say Chicago Junction, later part of Chicago River & Indiana, which served the Union Stock Yards. The rapid transit lines were the Stockyards branch and the Kenwood branch of the South Side Rapid Transit.
I'm going to say Chicago Junction, later part of Chicago River & Indiana, which served the Union Stock Yards. The rapid transit lines were the Stockyards branch and the Kenwood branch of the South Side Rapid Transit.
The result of the above lease was that the 1934 Stock Yards fire left the NYC System on the hook oto rebuild the Stock Yards branch.
MiningmanWas going to say the Wellsville, Addison and Galeton, The WAG, the Sole Leather Line, due to its numerous tanneries along its route that it served but I see it does not fit your criteria.
The railroad was also involved in a complicated arrangement where it built two rapid transit branches.
rcdrye Both the Nightingale an the North American changed direction en route (you can see the numbers on page 12 of the timetable). By 1948 both were carrying through Pullmans to Los Angeles, with an 8-1-2 heavyweight on the Nightingale (201-2-201 and 202-1-202), and a lightweight 6-6-4 on the North American (203-10-203 and 204-9-204) which was a day train. Omaha Road had its own Webster Street station in Omaha. Trains like the North American used C&NW's line south of Sioux City to Council Bluffs to get to Union Station so cars could be interchanged to Union Pacific's trains to the west, changing timetable direction twice in the process. The Nightingale's through cars via the Gold Coast and Pony Express were discontinued first, but all through cars were gone by 1955, and Twin Cities-Omaha trains by the early 1960s. CStPM&O's unnamed train direct to Omaha ran as 209 and 210 all the way.
Both the Nightingale an the North American changed direction en route (you can see the numbers on page 12 of the timetable). By 1948 both were carrying through Pullmans to Los Angeles, with an 8-1-2 heavyweight on the Nightingale (201-2-201 and 202-1-202), and a lightweight 6-6-4 on the North American (203-10-203 and 204-9-204) which was a day train. Omaha Road had its own Webster Street station in Omaha. Trains like the North American used C&NW's line south of Sioux City to Council Bluffs to get to Union Station so cars could be interchanged to Union Pacific's trains to the west, changing timetable direction twice in the process. The Nightingale's through cars via the Gold Coast and Pony Express were discontinued first, but all through cars were gone by 1955, and Twin Cities-Omaha trains by the early 1960s. CStPM&O's unnamed train direct to Omaha ran as 209 and 210 all the way.
If I'm understanding correctly, the time table direction changed at Sioux City from westward to eastward when using CNW track. I'm not so sure. I have a 1959 CNW Nebraska Division employee time table, and a train going from Sioux City to Missouri Valley (where it connected to the Iowa Division) is westward by time table direction. (This sets up trains going from California Jct to Missouri Valley, about 5 miles, going time table west while physically going east.)
Since it's a few years after the dates posted, it's possible they rearranged subdivisions and directions. Today's UP has the Blair Subdivision running from just east of Mo Valley to Fremont NE, one subdivision. In 1959 it took parts of four subdivisions, with one scheduled freight in each direction changing numbers for the Cal Jct to Mo Valley portion of the forementioned Sioux City District.
FWIW, leaving Mo Valley going to Fremont you start out by going east to California Jct. There you become a westbound using a portion of the North Yard District, Cal Jct to Blair. You continue as a westbound on the Blair District to Arlington. There you join the Norfolk District to Fremont. (At Arlington railroaders can still see the roadbed that came up from Omaha. Although it's fast disappearing in overgrown brush and trees.) Needless to say, Mo Valley to Fremont wasn't as important then as it became in the 1970s and continues today.
Jeff
Was going to say the Wellsville, Addison and Galeton, The WAG, the Sole Leather Line, due to its numerous tanneries along its route that it served but I see it does not fit your criteria.
BRC has re-invented itself a couple of times in the last century or so, and remains a vital part of Chicago,
This railroad, which was part of a larger system, may have deserved to be called the smelliest railroad. At one time the railroad and the source of the smell were part of the same organisation.
Close enough. After BRC was sold to its 12 owners, the right-of-way was leased by CWI to the BRC for a 50-year term. BRC purchased its line in 1962 when the lease ran out.
Rcdrye, your question.
C&WI actually created the Belt Railway. It started as the Belt Division of the C&WI, and remained under C&WI control for some time. Eventually, around 1912, the Belt Railway was sold to 12 owner railroads (5 of which were also C&WI's owners). The number of owners has been substantially reduced through mergers over the years, and now stands at 6.
My apologies for the delay. What was the legal connection between the Chicago & Western Indiana RR and the Belt Railway of Chicago besides the overlapping ownership?
Your turn, Paul!
Got'em all. AT&SF's order of the U30CGs was kind of surprising, given how much the crews disliked the U28CGs. All UxxCG passenger operation came to an end in 1969, after a U30CG dumped itself and the Grand Canyon onto the Illinois prairie. Both GE types were tried unsuccessfully on the Super C and couldn't make the schedule. They ended up in the freight pool, and were traded to GE as soon as their trust certificates expired. NKP's and Monon units were OK, given the easier schedules and shorter trains.
Monon, C420's on the "Thoroughbred".
ATSF, U28CG's on the "Texas Chief", U30CG's on the "Texas Chief" and the "Grand Canyon".
NKP, RS36's on the "City of Chicago/City of Cleveland".
In the mid-to-late 1960s, three railroads powered passenger trains out of Chicago with second-generation Alco or GE Power. Name the railroads (and at least one train for each) and the models used. Second-generation Alco is 251-engined, not necessarily Century series.
I wonder if Rock Island's U25Bs had the same motor and truck problems Soo Line's GP30s (and one GP35) did. Earlier high-horsepower GE motor applications like E44s and F-M Erie-builts used 746 motors.
The FA1 trucks wound up under the FT's since they were trade-in fodder for Rock Island's U25B's and the trucks and 752 traction motors could be used on them.
I'm pretty sure the replacement trucks came off retired FTs. Did the FA1's trucks end up under the Rock's Alco C415s?
You're halfway there. Why were they re-trucked?
Many if not all of Rock Island's repowered FA1s got Blomberg (EMD) trucks. As can be seen by the photo of RI 133, at least some of them did get nose MU.
http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0701/ri133.jpg
Photo of RI 133 shows a repowered unit with original trucks and no nose MU. A 244-powered FA1 would have a single fat stack instead of the two small stacks from the 567 engine.
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/516587/
Incidentally, the designation "FA1" does not appear to have been applied by ALCO/GE until later. Soo Line and other railroads listed them as "Road Freight", while listing contemporary EMDs as F3 and F7.
MU connections on the A-end? To allow use as a trailing unit in freght service?
Or equipped for push-pull suburban service?
And modified to provide head-end hotel power for suburban service?
Follow-up on the aforementioned Rock Island FA1's. A few years after they were re-powered, some of the FA's suffered another modification. What was the modification and why was it made?
Paul (CSSHEGEWICH), you are up!
The FA1's didn't look too bad (not like, say the DL109 621 "Christine") - Silvis shops kept the original Alco-GE cooling system. The NW1s needed space for new engine mounts and the turbo on the 244 engines so the hood got boxed out a lot.
The railroad is the Rock Island. It repowered some FA1/FB1's with 567 engines and used the 244 engines in some NW1's, which wound up looking like maroon piano crates.
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