Let's go to the movies! Hitchcock's research for the "train" scenes in NORTH BY NORTHWEST was pretty accurate. You can answer either of the following two questions:
#1 You can only ever clearly read the names of two cars in the film. What were the names?
OR
#2 While sitting at the table in the dining car with Eva Marie Saint, Cary Grant makes the statement "I've been playing hide-and-seek with the Pullman conductor since I got on." What's wrong with this statement?
Feel free to editorialize with your response...whichever.
Danbury, CT. But I digress...
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
In the American system, the conductor is the boss of the train ("All Aboard!") and is employed by the railroad.
The Pullman Company used Porters to make up the passengers' room and see to their general welfare. Porters may have collected tickets but at least part of that ticket went to the railroad company because it provided the transportation, while Pullman was a first-class service.
But there were Pullman Conductors...in addition to train Conductor....and usually in charge of a group of Pullman Cars in a train, thus, crew chief or supervisor of the Porters.
So, Flying Crow, am I disqualified? - al smalling
And, the Pullman conductor was responsible for turning all the space coupons in to his company, so he would want to make certain that everyone riding in Pullman space surrendered his coupon for that space. Unless he were a porter-in-charge (only one sleeper on the train), each porter, if he had collected transportation and space coupons, would turn all the coupons tendered by his passengers in to the proper conductor. If he were a porter-in-charge, he would give the railroad conductor the transportation coupons and remit the space coupons, along with the requisite written report to the Pullman Company.
In November of 1968, My mother and I occupied a bedroom in the lone sleeper on the Silver Comet from Washington to Birmingham. The two conductors came by together to get their coupons; I gave the space coupon to the Pullman conductor and my transportation to the RF&P conductor, and my mother gave the RF&P conductor her pass.
Johnny
All this about two conductors is correct, except on some runs that never had more than one Pullman car (not the Silver Comet, which usually did have more than one), there was no Pullman conductor but instead one "Porter-in-charge" who was a regular porter but a senior one with lots of experience and paid better than a regular porter and who acted as a Pullman conductor with regards to tickets only.
To answer the question: On the particular train he would have had to been playing "Hide and Seek" with both conductors, both the train conductor and the Pullman conductor, unless he had the right tickets for the train.
In the scene just before the dining car scene referenced in the question, don't we see what appear to be 2 conductors, standing at the end of a chair car/coach, in front of the men's restroom (where our hero is apparently hiding), comparing notes and passenger counts?
By 1959, the date the film was released, hadn't the 20th Century been combined with the Commodore Vanderbilt, so that it was no longer all-Pullman?
The link is to a scene with Eva Marie Saint at LaSalle St. Station, with blurry info about Des Moines Rocket, Peoria Rocket, Corn Belt Rocket and Nickel Plate Westerner.
http://forgottenchicago.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/northbynorthwest_lasalle.jpg
A. Al.....no, you are not disqualified.
B. Wans .... great photo. Bonus if anyone can name the drink Cary Grant is having.
Ok, everyone, you're all hitting "around" the answer - like depth charges. BUT....only one of you has come somewhat close.
Bonus if anyone can name the drink Cary Grant is having.
I can't name that, Flying Crow, but I can tell you the adjective Eve Kendall (Eva Marie Saint) used to describe the trout at dinner!
Yeah, the famous NYC Brook Trout dinner. Go ahead AL. I'll leave the other question open if anyone wants to give it a whirl.
"A little trouty."
Dragoman In the scene just before the dining car scene referenced in the question, don't we see what appear to be 2 conductors, standing at the end of a chair car/coach, in front of the men's restroom (where our hero is apparently hiding), comparing notes and passenger counts?
I am not picking on you Dragoman but ATTENTION TRAINS/KALMBACH MANAGEMENT AGAIN. Here is a perfect example of the new fans not knowing what railroads were like prior to their entry to the pursuit. We need to do something better than what is being done.
Dragoman, there was only one train conductor and maybe a Pullman conductor. Others in railroad uniform were Trainman, Brakeman, Flagman, Collector, Assistant Conductor, and some others depending on the railroad.
Henry, my good man --
I thank you (and all the other interesting answerers so far -- I hope there are more!). I don't feel picked on, but perhaps a bit misunderstood.
I do know that there is -- and was -- only one Conductor on a train. I was simply remarking on a scene in the referenced film, where 2 individuals in RR uniforms are apparently engaged in RR-related activities, and it is implied that their activity has something to do with the passenger count (which is what is relevant to the story line). Now, I couldn't quite make out their titles from their caps (or maybe just wasn't paying enough attention!). I assume that they were the Conductor and either an Assistant Conductor or Pullman Conductor, or even 2 Assistant Conductors (which, in either case, could IMHO be described as "2 conductors").
If I have stepped in it (again!), please don't blame Kalmbach for my not doing more or better research!
On the 20th Century Limited or any New York Central premier Pullman or Pullman and coach through train there would be a Pullman and a Railroad conductor, two conductors. After the New York Central took over its own sleeping car operations, the Pullman conductor was not necessary, and only the railroad conductor remained. And again, on some routes where never more than one sleeping car was operated, Pullman dispensed with a conductor and there was a Porter in Charge.
What was the date of the scene? Was it before or after the NYC sleeping car takeover?
Dragoman By 1959, the date the film was released, hadn't the 20th Century been combined with the Commodore Vanderbilt, so that it was no longer all-Pullman?
That's correct....I might be wrong about this but I think when Tornhill was trying to get Pullman space on the Century at Grand Central Terminal, the ticket agent mentions that the Pullmans were sold out but coach space was available.
NORTH BY NORTHWEST was a 1959 M-G-M release.
Al...asking or telling?
"A little trouty" is correct..and the drink was a Gibson. A martini with an onion, not an olive.
Nobody taking a crack at the name of the two cars?
HINT: One car is not actually NYC, but painted for one.
FlyingCrow Al...asking or telling? "A little trouty" is correct..and the drink was a Gibson. A martini with an onion, not an olive. Nobody taking a crack at the name of the two cars? HINT: One car is not actually NYC, but painted for one.
I'll take a WAG on one of the two NYC-looking cars. It was probably the set prototype (read: fake) of an ATSF sleeper, streamlined, the one that Fred Astaire left when he got off what was obviously an establishing shot of the GCT-bound 20TH CENTURY LTD in THE BANDWAGON, in 1953. I don't think such a thru routing was possible, not L.A.-NYC via ATSF&NYC, but that car looked very much a streamlined Pullman; it just happened to bear a "Santa Fe" plate. Even though 1953 was stil very much a train-going era, how many of the mass audience would have picked up on Fred's sleeper boasting what's probably the wrong road? Also I should note that MGM was the releasing studio both for THE BANDWAGON and for NORTH BY NORTHWEST six years later. This doesn't prove anything, but it lends credence.
BTW I have a lovely Question in mind should the occasion arise.
If he bought only a coach ticket but was "sharing" with a Pullman passenger, this while the train still carried cars operated by Pullman, then he would have to avoid being caught by BOTH conductors, not just the Pullman conductor. In addition to the Pullman space charge, there are both the issues of no step-up to RR first-class fare, plus prohibiltion against immoral conduct on the part of passengers.
[snip, quoting Al-in-Chicago]"I'll take a WAG on one of the two NYC-looking cars. It was probably the set prototype (read: fake) of an ATSF sleeper, streamlined, the one that Fred Astaire left when he got off what was obviously an establishing shot of the GCT-bound 20TH CENTURY LTD in THE BANDWAGON, in 1953. I don't think such a thru routing was possible, not L.A.-NYC via ATSF&NYC, but that car looked very much a streamlined Pullman;"
SFe-NYC was one of the routings of transcontinental sleepers. At the moment, I do not remember just when the last such routings was abolished, but for several years there were two NY-LA sleepers on the Century--a 10-6 and a 4-4-2. Originally, they traveled on the Chief, but when the Chief was put on a one-night-out schedule westbound, the Super Chief began carrying them.
What happened to the No Duplicat Posts" program? I thought once was enough.
Score one for realism, Johnny!
On the other hand, speaking of production values for NORTH BY NORTHWEST, that was a wonderful cut from inside the train to outside, going up the Hudson. But if any NYC-owned and -plated cars were streamlined, wouldn't that be a mistake? The livery then was dark grey trimmed in white (or perhaps a very light gray a la CN). That may lend some credence to the idea that it was MGM's old Santa-Fe plated studio model Pullman that had been painted or plated over to show New York Central.
But I do remember fluted stainless steel on NYC cars. And wasn't there an SP train or cars in NYC grays and lightning stripes?
henry6 But I do remember fluted stainless steel on NYC cars. And wasn't there an SP train or cars in NYC grays and lightning stripes?
As to the SP gray, I don't think that the cars built for the Cascade, Lark, and non-City Overland service had lightning stripes, but were simply two-tone gray. I do not know about the Golden State; neither Wayner nor Randall say anything about the color scheme for this train.
FlyingCrow: Nobody taking a crack at the name of the two cars?
[/quote]
I finally broke down and took a quick look at North by Northwest. The two cars are Imperial State, a 4 double bedroom-4 compartment-2 drawing room prewar sleeper, and Quincy Bay, a 22 roomette postwar sleeper. The car that was lettered Imperial State looked like a blunt end SP 10-6 sleeper - you can see the blunt end when Thornhill boards the car next to the Imperial State. Possibly, the boarding and departure of the Century was filmed in Hollywood, while the arrival sequence was filmed on location at La Salle Street station.
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter