The UP bought the GM-Pullman Train of Tomorrow and used it as its contribution for Porftland - Seattle Pool Service. I do not know if it retained the name "Train of Tomorrow" on the UP. Probably they called it "Domeliner." The CB&Q was operating its Silver Vista, the very first dome car, converted from a standard Budd coach and recognizable by the angular dome instead a dome with smooth curves, but that was just one car/ The UP train had several domes.
daveklepper The UP bought the GM-Pullman Train of Tomorrow and used it as its contribution for Porftland - Seattle Pool Service. I do not know if it retained the name "Train of Tomorrow" on the UP. Probably they called it "Domeliner." The CB&Q was operating its Silver Vista, the very first dome car, converted from a standard Budd coach and recognizable by the angular dome instead a dome with smooth curves, but that was just one car/ The UP train had several domes.
Officially the Train of Tomorrow consist was unnamed when it was operated in Seattle-Portland pool service. In fact, all the trains on that route were unnamed. So this would not be it.
Another hint: I don't believe this train used any type of unusual equipment.
City of San Francisco. Chicago - Oakland, Ca. Multiple ownership of a trainset . Finale City of everywhere. origins Chicago & St Louis _ Ogden(?) . rgds ign
narig01 City of San Francisco. Chicago - Oakland, Ca. Multiple ownership of a trainset . Finale City of everywhere. origins Chicago & St Louis _ Ogden(?) . rgds ign
Nope - think of the travel innovation (and eventually the name) from the passengers point of view.
I would point out that the City of San Francisco's multiple ownership simply repeated what had been standard for years on the Overland Limited, etc. It was a non-articulated train, so individual coaches, sleepers, diners, and lounges were owned by individual railroads contributing to a common pool for the total service. This was true of nearly all the Cities non-articulated trains, and for the CZ, Empire Builder, North Coast Limited, Golden State Rocket, etc. I understand the Zephyr Rocket was an exception, with one set owned by the RI and one by the CB&Q without mixing equipment, at least at first. This did not prevent the emblems of three railroads being applied to a specifically UP,, SP, or C&NW diesel locomotive. I recall the lead MP diesel on the Colorado Eagle also having a DRG&W emblem as well as MP.
Dollar Dinner Limited? (Wild guess) Is this the right directioh?
daveklepper I would point out that the City of San Francisco's multiple ownership simply repeated what had been standard for years on the Overland Limited, etc. It was a non-articulated train, so individual coaches, sleepers, diners, and lounges were owned by individual railroads contributing to a common pool for the total service. This was true of nearly all the Cities non-articulated trains, and for the CZ, Empire Builder, North Coast Limited, Golden State Rocket, etc. I understand the Zephyr Rocket was an exception, with one set owned by the RI and one by the CB&Q without mixing equipment, at least at first. This did not prevent the emblems of three railroads being applied to a specifically UP,, SP, or C&NW diesel locomotive. I recall the lead MP diesel on the Colorado Eagle also having a DRG&W emblem as well as MP. Dollar Dinner Limited? (Wild guess) Is this the right directioh?
Not really - look at my previous comment. A typical passenger of the time would not have cared if the diner was from the C&NW and the lounge car was owned by SP. The travel "innovation" I'm looking for affected the comfort of the passenger directly. Was it more convenient? It was supposed to be.
Another hint - This train was basically merged out of existence.
Here's another wild guess the 1944 Furloughhee Challenger that was later called the Military Challenger and eventually before its demise in 1946 the Advanced Challenger?
K4sPRR Here's another wild guess the 1944 Furloughhee Challenger that was later called the Military Challenger and eventually before its demise in 1946 the Advanced Challenger?
Nope - what was the travel innovation the train names refer to? Focus on civilian travel. The answer approximates the time frame you gave.
Didn't this train start out as the Portland Rose then the City of Portland?
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henry6 Didn't this train start out as the Portland Rose then the City of Portland?
Nope - The train was established as a new schedule, but as I said before, it eventually was merged out of existence with an established train. Portland was not an endpoint.
I was going to say City of Denver, & internal combustian, but City of Salina predates that. Am I any closer? thx ign
narig01 I was going to say City of Denver, & internal combustian, but City of Salina predates that. Am I any closer? thx ign
Not really. Remember, the name reflects the travel innovation. In your example, the train was called the City of Denver, not the Internal Combustion. Also, in another post I mentioned that the time frame was the immediate post WWII time period.
Well, I'm going to finally jump in here and say CITY OF LAS VEGAS....later renamed LAS VEGAS HOLIDAY SPECIAL. LA to ...well...where else.
Like they say at the craps tables ..."Winner Winner Chicken Dinner"...maybe???
FlyingCrow Well, I'm going to finally jump in here and say CITY OF LAS VEGAS....later renamed LAS VEGAS HOLIDAY SPECIAL. LA to ...well...where else. Like they say at the craps tables ..."Winner Winner Chicken Dinner"...maybe???
nope....
I mentioned when I initially asked the question that it wasn't the Aerotrain - therefore it it couldn't be the City of Las Vegas/Las Vegas Holiday Special. BUT - you got one of the endpoints right. Look at my other responses and put the pieces together.
Looking at the two endpoints, Las Vages had only one railroad line serving it, and that was and is today the UP. I don't know of any train merged out of existance there. Just discontinuation and startup and discontinuation with Amtrak.
But he Golden State Rocket was started after WWII and may have had some passenger comfort or convenience that I don't know about. Unless you consider an automat car a passenger conveninece in that he or she can get a meal any time, not just when the diner is open. And possibly, in a fit of clair voyance, the SP and RI did get together to try it out while retaining the dining car, for a while. And then when the Cotton Belt was part of the SP directly, the RI had to start with train-offs and while on the SP, while it lasted, possibly the Golden State was merged into the a regular train. That is the only answer I can come up with. LA was not served by many railroads, and I cannot think of any othe train with a novelty started after WWII. The Golden State Limited was probably the established train.
daveklepper Looking at the two endpoints, Las Vages had only one railroad line serving it, and that was and is today the UP. I don't know of any train merged out of existance there. Just discontinuation and startup and discontinuation with Amtrak. But he Golden State Rocket was started after WWII and may have had some passenger comfort or convenience that I don't know about. Unless you consider an automat car a passenger conveninece in that he or she can get a meal any time, not just when the diner is open. And possibly, in a fit of clair voyance, the SP and RI did get together to try it out while retaining the dining car, for a while. And then when the Cotton Belt was part of the SP directly, the RI had to start with train-offs and while on the SP, while it lasted, possibly the Golden State was merged into the a regular train. That is the only answer I can come up with. LA was not served by many railroads, and I cannot think of any othe train with a novelty started after WWII. The Golden State Limited was probably the established train.
When I say merged out of existence, I mean that cars that were carried ontrain A were transferred to Train B and Train A's schedule no longer existed, but A's capacity was added onto Train B.
If you look at my original question, I mention that this primarily a UP train, but cars from other railroads were operated on this train with Los Angeles as an end point.
Another hint - the train I have in mind was involved in a major derailment near the end of its career.
Another hint - the "novelty" that this train featured was foisted upon the industry by the actions of a president of another railroad.
Absolute WAG Slot Machines?
I was going to say merged out of existence by merging with another train. I would think that the train that it would have been merged into would be the City of Los Angeles which would have cars from the City of Everywhere.
As to the train did the UP run a day train from Los Angeles?
Thx IGN
narig01 Absolute WAG Slot Machines? I was going to say merged out of existence by merging with another train. I would think that the train that it would have been merged into would be the City of Los Angeles which would have cars from the City of Everywhere. As to the train did the UP run a day train from Los Angeles? Thx IGN
Slot machines? nah....
Don't forget, there were other UP trains going to LA besides the City of Los Angeles. Also, don't read into the "novelty" too deeply. For the time this train existed, it was the only LA train on the UP that offered this.
Another Hint - During this time period, the Chief and Golden State Limited also offered this. But only the UP train was named to reflect this type of service.
Just the GOLDEN STATE. The "Limited" part of the name was dropped in 1947.
Well, the UP was the only operator of pure dome diners on several trains. This route hosted UP 3 & 4, the Utahan; UP 103 & 104, the City of Los Angeles; UP 9 & 10, the City of St Louis; and UP 107 & 108, the Challenger Domeliner. Plus the City of Las Vegas, etc. They had a feature similar to the Turquoise Room (Santa Fe) called "The Gold Room". Beyond this I'm void of any more ideas.
FlyingCrow Just the GOLDEN STATE. The "Limited" part of the name was dropped in 1947. Well, the UP was the only operator of pure dome diners on several trains. This route hosted UP 3 & 4, the Utahan; UP 103 & 104, the City of Los Angeles; UP 9 & 10, the City of St Louis; and UP 107 & 108, the Challenger Domeliner. Plus the City of Las Vegas, etc. They had a feature similar to the Turquoise Room (Santa Fe) called "The Gold Room". Beyond this I'm void of any more ideas.
I did mean the Golden State Limited. And as for the UP trains, there were others - one of them is the train I'm looking for.
AWAG(another WAG) Crap tables (LOL hey it is vegas)
On another WAG motor bus connections ?
(Yes these really are wild guesses)
narig01 AWAG(another WAG) Crap tables (LOL hey it is vegas) On another WAG motor bus connections ? Thx IGN (Yes these really are wild guesses)
Nope and nope......
The following is a reinteration of the question and the various hints given -
In 1935, the UP established the Challenger, a train that considered innovative because of the accommodations and services it offered. A number of years later, the UP established another train with its name reflecting another travel innovation. Give the name the train as it was originally named, the name at the end of its career, the endpoints, and what was the travel innovation the train was highlighting?Hint: it wasn't the AerotrainAnother hint: I don't believe this train used any type of unusual equipment.- Think of the travel innovation (and eventually the name) from the passengers point of view.Another hint - This train was basically merged out of existence. - "The answer approximates the time frame you gave". (ca. 1946)"I mentioned when I initially asked the question that it wasn't the Aerotrain - therefore it it couldn't be the City of Las Vegas/Las Vegas Holiday Special. BUT - you got one of the endpoints right." (Los Angeles)Another hint - the train I have in mind was involved in a major derailment near the end of its career.Another hint - the "novelty" that this train featured was foisted upon the industry by the actions of a president of another railroad.Another Hint - During this time period, the Chief and Golden State Limited also offered this. But only the UP train was named to reflect this type of service.
To the above I'll add - This wasn't a City train. Also, to add to the time frame, this train existed in that window where passenger levels were still near their wartime highs after WWII, but the big drop was just starting.
The Transcon or Transcontinental Limited? Chicago to Los Angeles, with coast-to-coast through cars from the Commodore Vanderbilt (NYC) and the General (PRR). I don't know what the final name of it was.
Well there was the Challenger Streamliner but my reference indicates that was 1954, long after the time frame.
Likewise The NP went to the Vista-Dome North Coast Limited " and Santa Fe had domes since 1951, forcing" the UP to adopt to the Wabash Domeliner name and it became the Challenger Domeliner but all the dome fever was in the mid-fifties also.
The Challener Domliner was merged with the City of Los Angeles in off seasions in 1956. 1970 all the domes were pulled and all the westbound trains out of Chicago were combined into one. Often unoffically called the City of Everywhere which lasted until Amtrak. After Amtrak it was the "City of San Francisco".
But since the dates are wrong I am stumped.
All the domes were NOT pulled from LA on the City of Everyhwere combined train. I enjoyed seeing 844 up ahead on the last eastbound City of LA, I think from Rawlins to Cheyenne. The dome diner was pulled but other domes did remain on the train.
I feel confident Wans has the correct answer. As president of the C&O Robert R. Young "shamed" the industry into providing through coast to coast sleeping car service with his ads that proclaimed "A hog can cross the country without changing trains - but you can"t".
Mark
wanswheel The Transcon or Transcontinental Limited? Chicago to Los Angeles, with coast-to-coast through cars from the Commodore Vanderbilt (NYC) and the General (PRR). I don't know what the final name of it was.
DING.DING.DING.DING.DING.DING.DING.DING.DING.DING.DING.DING
We have a winner!
The Transcontinental was the train I was looking for. Inaugurated in June 1946, the train left Chicago in the late morning, and carried several New York/Washington-LA sleeping cars that were handled east of Chicago via the PRR and NYC. At this time, the Transcontinental was the only UP train that carried NY/WASH-LA sleepers. The train was scheduled to minimize layover time in Chicago for coast-to-coast passengers and was started in the midst of a nationwide postwar speedup of train service and the beginning of several transcontinental sleeping car lines.
Besides carrying the coast-to-coast sleepers, the train also operated a Chicago-LA 10 section Observation, diner, and 3 coaches. Between Salt Lake and Los Angeles the train also carried an 12-1 sleeper and coach. Initially the train also carried a through Chicago-Denver coach and 12-1 sleeper that was transferred to the Columbine at Omaha. Note that there was no advertised lounge facilities at all on this train - could this be due to the lack of such cars available?
As you see in the ads that Wanswheel posted, the NYC called this train the Transcontinental Limited. Was this the intended name of the train? I haven't seen anything to confirm that, but I'm sure the NYC didn't just make that name up. In the June 1946 Official Guide the train is named the Transcontinental in the UP, CNW and PRR representations. Sometime later in the summer the trains name was shortened to Transcon.
Was this train successful? It was gone by October 1946, which should say something. One factor could be that the train's schedule was similar to that of the Los Angeles Limited. In fact the eastbound Transcon and Los Angeles Limited was scheduled to run only 90 minutes apart. After the Transcon was terminated, the coast-to-coast sleepers and presumably some coach capacity were transferred to the Los Angeles Limited.
In one of my hints, I mentioned that this train was involved in a major derailment. On September 24, 1946, a westbound run of the Transcon derailed near Victorville, CA, causing several deaths. Excessive speed on a curve may been the cause.
Thanks to all who replied - Wanswheel, you have the next question.
Who was the first President to speak to the nation by radio from a train?
Mike
FDR His 1944 nomination acceptance speech on board the Ferdinand Magellan in San Diego.
Not FDR. There's a picture, which enlarges, at link.
http://fdrsdeadlysecret.blogspot.com/2011/02/epilepsy-of-franklin-delano-roosevelt.html
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