FlyingCrow: Nobody taking a crack at the name of the two cars?
Nobody taking a crack at the name of the two cars?
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I finally broke down and took a quick look at North by Northwest. The two cars are Imperial State, a 4 double bedroom-4 compartment-2 drawing room prewar sleeper, and Quincy Bay, a 22 roomette postwar sleeper. The car that was lettered Imperial State looked like a blunt end SP 10-6 sleeper - you can see the blunt end when Thornhill boards the car next to the Imperial State. Possibly, the boarding and departure of the Century was filmed in Hollywood , while the arrival sequence was filmed on location at La Salle Street station.
I think I need to save everyone some time here and just cave in. We can draw lots to see who will go next.
Q1. What two cars are seen,etc. Well the first is IMPERIAL STATE, a 4-4-2 of Plan 4069D built in 1939 and sold to the Illinois Central as their HOMEWOOD in 1962. But, wait...that's not really a 4-4-2, is it? No, in fact it's a blunt end SP 10-6 painted to look like the aforementioned NYC sleeper. You never see the rest of the train to see that all those cars are actually SP. Second car....when Thornhill and Kendall (Grant and Saint) are leaving the train (he's disguised as a Red Cap) at LaSalle Street Station (and yes it is....there's a Rock Island Switcher in the background) they pass QUINCY BAY , a 22 Roomette car built in 1948, not ONCE but TWICE as the movie set version of the Century you see here was but a locomotive and few cars from NYC's yards in Chicago. They shoot the walking scene twice to make the train look a lot longer than it really is...hence, they pass Quincy Bay twice.
Q2. What's wrong with Grant saying "I've been playing hide and seek with the Pullman conductor..." ? Well, in 1959 a lot since NYC previously and abruptly dropped it's agreements with the Pullman Company in July of 1958. If he was dodging a Pullman conductor, the guy was on the wrong train.
Yes you do see two "conductors" in a previous scene as he hides in a lavatory. Closer examination reveals they are both wearing hats bearing NYC badges.
OK....draw lots and let's pick someone to move us forward!
UPDATE - MR ZEPHYR OVERLAND POSTED AT THE SAME TIME I POSTED THIS.... ALL YOURS Z.O.
FlyingCrow Q2. What's wrong with Grant saying "I've been playing hide and seek with the Pullman conductor..." ? Well, in 1959 a lot since NYC previously and abruptly dropped it's agreements with the Pullman Company in July of 1958. If he was dodging a Pullman conductor, the guy was on the wrong train.
Technically, you're right, but keep in mind that the majority of the movie audiences who saw this film when it was first released were used to seeing a railroad and a Pullman conductor picking up tickets. The fact that the Central dropped its relationship with Pullman made its operation an exception, rather then the rule, in the eyes of the public.
A new question is on its way....
ZephyrOverland --
I do believe that the boarding scenes were done on a Hollywood set -- I saw a "special feature" documentary, filmed some years later, with Eva Marie Saint standing next to the those Hollywood train cars!
FlyingCrow --
It's a bit before my time, but is it possible -- in the "old habits die hard" department -- that, regardless of ownership or operation, people would continue to describe first-class and sleeping car accomodations "Pullman" (as they long did in England), and therefore the conductor pulling tickets in the sleeping car might still be called a "Pullman conductor"?
EDIT -- I see ZephyrOverland has addressed this while I was slowly typing away! Sorry!
We seem to have a technological tie between Z.O. and dragoman.
One suggestion: let the person who has not posed many questions lately have the privilege.
Just a thought - al
No, no, Z.O. has the floor -- for now!
I bumped this thread because I'm not sure ZO knows he's up. !!
Maybe it needs to be bumped again!
Sorry for the delay - job search got in the way.....
As for the question -
In 1912, PRR's Pennsylvania Special was renamed the Broadway Limited. Approximately 20 years later there was a proposal to rename the Broadway Limited. What was the proposed name(s)?
Was 1932 the time of a Chicago World's Fair, and did the name or names relate to it?
'CENTURY OF PROGRESS' was unoficially known as "Chicago World's Fair."
There were also numerous promotional tie-ins with railroad companies to get people in and out of the Windy City, but I don't think any one RR company per se sponsored the event.
There were technological goodies on display but not to the extent of the better-remembered 1939 World's Fair in New York City (Flushing, Queens), which was much larger. However, at Century of Progress the press, if not the average attendee, seemed to be most impressed by Miss Sally Rand and her exotic (or should I say erotic?) "fan dance," which used very large bird feathers (plumes) as cover and suggested nudity on Sally Rand's part, although that may have been an illusion; she moved too quickly to make it a certainty whether she was ever in the altogether before an audience, or just gave the impression of such.. (In much the same way as Hitchcock's 1960 film PSYCHO, which never actually portrayed a knife touching Janet Leigh's body, but the action moved so quickly it was hard to conclude otherwise without using some sort of freeze-framing device.)
daveklepper Was 1932 the time of a Chicago World's Fair, and did the name or names relate to it?
Not really, but I can say is that the proposed name(s) was to reflect the Broadway's presumed main clientele.
Johnny
Deggesty daveklepper: Was 1932 the time of a Chicago World's Fair, and did the name or names relate to it? The "Century of Progress" exposition was held in 1933 and 1934, but the planning began in 1928.
daveklepper: Was 1932 the time of a Chicago World's Fair, and did the name or names relate to it?
The "Century of Progress" exposition was held in 1933 and 1934, but the planning began in 1928.
... and the Century of Progress was used on a C&EI Chicago-St. Louis train.
Was it a name that was later used by the PRR on another east-west long-distance train?
daveklepper Was it a name that was later used by the PRR on another east-west long-distance train?
No, but the name(s) were used in some form by other railroads.
OK, here are some guesses:
Eastern Star, National Limited, National Express, Comet, Allegheny, Prosperity Limited, Prosperity Express, Prosperity Special
April of 1932 they proposed changing the name to the "The 18 Hour Broadway" dropping the limited status.
K4sPRR April of 1932 they proposed changing the name to the "The 18 Hour Broadway" dropping the limited status.
I'm going to accept that answer but I was actually looking for another name. John Barringer proposed to the PRR that they rename the Broadway Limited the La Salle Street and the Wall Street to appeal to the clientele that they thought was still patronizing the Broadway at that time. I'm not sure if the PRR seriously considered those names. But apparently, they did seriously consider the 18-hour Broadway moniker along with dropping the Limited status of the Broadway and with it, the Broadway's special features. This was considered in April 1932, when the Broadway was running combined with the Spirit of St. Louis between New York and Pittsburgh. At the last minute though, they decided to keep the Broadway Limited name for the sake of saving face more than anything else. At the same time, they separated the Broadway and Spirit of St. Louis, with the latter receiving coaches. If they had dropped the Broadway name, the PRR feared it would be tacitly throwing in the towel, as it were, to the NYC and its 20th Century Limited as the premier service between New York and Chicago. Obviously, despite the depression, the PRR had the resources and the will to maintain an underutilized Broadway at least as a facade until times got better.
As for the Wall Street and La Salle Street names:
The Reading/Central Railroad of New Jersey applied the Wall Street moniker to a Philadelphia-Jersey City train and the Long Island had the Montauk-New York Wall Street Special.
The La Salle Street name was used by several railroads:
La Salle Street Limited - RI - Omaha-Chicago
La Salle - CEI - Chicago-St. Louis
La Salle - GTW/CN - Toronto-Chicago
La Salle Street Limited - NYCHR/LSMS New York Chicago
La Salle Street Special - NYC - Elkhart-Chicago.
K4sPRR, the next question is yours....
After WWII, The Wall Street was also introduced as a Philly Reading Terminal - Jersey City train, as a companion to the Wall Street , using semi-streamlined extensively modernized coaches. It and the Crusader did survive into the Aldene Plan relocation to PRR Newark Penn Station, and at that time were already converted to RDC operation with one having a snack-bar with counter seating on each train. Then the Crusader was dropped, and the Wall Street was the last train over the route, if my memory is correct. Both trains handled mostly Jenkintown - New York City commuters at the end, if my memory is correct, and the schedules, weekdays only, were set up for that. I suppose these commuters now drive over to an NEC station, possibly Trenton. Rode it.
daveklepper After WWII, The Wall Street was also introduced as a Philly Reading Terminal - Jersey City train, as a companion to the Wall Street , using semi-streamlined extensively modernized coaches. It and the Crusader did survive into the Aldene Plan relocation to PRR Newark Penn Station, and at that time were already converted to RDC operation with one having a snack-bar with counter seating on each train. Then the Crusader was dropped, and the Wall Street was the last train over the route, if my memory is correct. Both trains handled mostly Jenkintown - New York City commuters at the end, if my memory is correct, and the schedules, weekdays only, were set up for that. I suppose these commuters now drive over to an NEC station, possibly Trenton. Rode it.
In 1980, I had the opportunity to ride the RDC version of the Wall Street/Crusader from Philadelphia to Newark round trip. Basically it was a commuter train and the bar area was not operating. It was the only time I ever rode an operating RDC.
Thanks, just as a note to Mr. Barringer's proposed names, they were quickly shot down as being too closely related to the NYC.
Staying with the Broadway theme in 1932, here's the next question; The depression certainly was not a good time for the Broadway, to increase revenues an RPO was added and with it came a not too kind nickname for the train, what was it?
From: Narig01.
To the readers of this thread. I want to offer my apoligies for my non response on 15 May.
I thought I had disengaged from this. But I now realize I had answered correctly on both threads and only answered one.
I am still following these for entertainment.
Thank You for some patience
Thx IGN
narig01 From: Narig01. To the readers of this thread. I want to offer my apoligies for my non response on 15 May. I thought I had disengaged from this. But I now realize I had answered correctly on both threads and only answered one. I am still following these for entertainment. Thank You for some patience Thx IGN
-- Happens to me, too, fella -- don't sweat it! - - al
The Sack? The Pouch? The Bin? The Mailbox?
K4sPRR The depression certainly was not a good time for the Broadway, to increase revenues an RPO was added and with it came a not too kind nickname for the train, what was it?
The depression certainly was not a good time for the Broadway, to increase revenues an RPO was added and with it came a not too kind nickname for the train, what was it?
I think it was the Deadhead Special.
Congratulations, you are correct. Next question is yours.
ZephyrOverland I think it was the Deadhead Special.
Congratulations, you are correct. The next question is yours.
K4sPRR Congratulations, you are correct. Next question is yours.
The Palmetto....
This name had been utilized on ACL (and SCL) trains from the pre-WWI years all the way to Amtrak. Unfortunately, it was never the "belle of the ball" train as such - it was always a secondary run. There were short periods of time when the Palmetto Limited was nearly equal to the ACL first tier trains, but when traffic downturns occurred, the train was re-regulated to a supporting train. As a result, the train had a number of southern termini.
Name the cities that the Palmetto Limited (or Palmetto) used as its southern terminus.
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