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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, February 11, 2019 12:22 PM

How about Denver and Salt Lake City?  If the car was switched at Pueblo it might not get turned.  Change to the 1930s and go west on the Denver and Salt Lake (and Denver and Salt Lake Western Dotsero cutoff).  I seem to remember that prior to the D&SL merger D&RGW trains used their own rails to reach the D&SL, still inside the Denver city limits.

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, February 10, 2019 4:13 PM

Well, since there has not been a question proposed, here is one:

Pullman provided overnight service between the capitals of two adjacent states. I understand that if you left either capital feet first as you went to sleep, you woke up the next morning head first. Why the change in direction? Where did it take place? What were  the two capital cities? What was the road? There was time when no change of sleeping direction because another road handled the car during its transit; what was the "middle" road and where did it connect with the originating and terminating road?

Johnny

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, February 10, 2019 10:17 AM

This one also!! If no question comes to mind then make it a jump ball. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, February 5, 2019 5:21 AM

Waiting for his question!

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 6:54 AM

No Overmod got it right, it's the SP's East Bay electric.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 29, 2019 2:03 AM

If none of the amswers proposed o date are correct, I propose Yakima.

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, January 26, 2019 7:27 PM

The Interurban Electric system was SP's East Bay subsidiary that competed with the Key System.  Cars were labelled "Southern Pacific Lines" until shortly before the Bay Bridge opened.  A mix of street running and private ROW, the IE was mainly a suburban operation, extending north and south from Oakland, and covering Alemeda.  Ferries from SP's Oakland Pier and the Alameda Pier were used until the Bay Bridge opened.  Key System and IE each abandoned parts of some lines in 1933 to reduce competitions.  Key Sytem A nd F lines were extended in 1941 over ex-IE trackage.  Berkeley's Adeline Street went from six tracks to four when the Key System cars moved over into the center on IE's reserved median.  IE was all 1200 volt, Key system was 600.  When the lines shared the Bay Bridge, IE operated off 1200v overhead (as did Sacramento Northern), while Key used 600v third rail.

Most of the IE lines were originally steam powered using tank engines, and freight movement (steam or diesel) on the former Dutton Ave. line (Key line A to Havenscourt) outlasted IE's operation on the extension.

The derelict SP 16th St. station in Oakland still shows evidence of the IE, with elevated platforms built into the roof, originally used by the Berkeley lines.  Dutton Ave. and 7th St were rerouted through 16th St, and the Berkely lines started bypassing it when operation over the Bay Bridge began, as the Bridge Railway connection was north of 16th St.

Some of IE's equipment, along with cars from SP's Oregon Red Electric operation (and the Northwestern Pacific, likewise abandoned in 1941) went to the Pacific Electric for further operation.

Key System's modern looking Bridge Units were really new bodies around controls and motors salvaged from 1910 era cars.  Since the Bridge units weighed the same as or more than the cars they were rebuilt from, their performance didn't match their modern appearance.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, January 25, 2019 1:43 PM

Modifying Mr. Klepper's answer slightly for clarity: doesn't he include the Southern Pacific Red Electric system too?

Personally, I think it's the same railroad a little bit south, the SP East Bay Electric, with part going to Key System (F line until 1958?) after most of the lines shut down around 1941.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, January 25, 2019 6:09 AM

Maybe if I added that the route patterns were changed in 1939 due to new construction?

LVT's local lines predated the through service with P&W - besides LVT was a "true" interurban.  The area covered by the system I'm looking for is just about totally built over today. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, January 25, 2019 4:55 AM

Possibly the local streetcar lines of Lehigh Valley Transit

or

The local Portland, Oregon lines and the Oregon Electric interurban system

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 7:47 AM

The company was created at the time the lines were electrified, but the cars wore the name of the parent system along with a distinctive color most of their service lives.  Some of the cars were transferred to a related interurban property and lasted another two decades in service.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, January 18, 2019 6:35 AM

On to the next subject...

This largely suburban electric service, once handled by steam locomotives, was abandoned just before World War II.  Some of its trackage continued in service for almost two more decades as line extensions for a former competitor.

 

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, January 17, 2019 2:19 PM

CP Rail 

Robot cars to control mid-train units. 

5 converted from 45 foot silk express cars. 11 from B units. 1 from CLC RS. 
Angus Shops prepared car bodies after prime mover removed, some for RS-10's. 
Locotrol equipment was installed by Ogden Shops.. 
Later cars built from box cars. 

No. 1 engine 1414 westbound passing Westmount Tower. October 10, 1963 Peter Cox 
Note the former silk car in Tuscan red on headend carrying storage mail for Calgary.

AN23 (ex 4408) later scrapped when conversion program changed to box cars. 
AN21 (ex 4463) became 1005 here with temporary numbers sit in a line at Angus waiting conversion. 

1010 Robot 10 ex 4472 9/1972 Spuzzum, BC 4/19/1980 

1015 Robot-15 ex 4458 1/1973 Port Coquitlam 6/14/1976 

Robot-16 converted 9/1972 from CLC-FM B unit 4472 one of 10 CLC B units converted. 

Robot 20 ex Robot 1020 a.k.a. 1020. Coquitlam 7/24/1976 

Robot car 1025 rebuilt Angus 6/1974 using 50 foot box car. One of 16 cars 1017-1032. 
Coquitlam 12/26/1987

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 17, 2019 1:09 PM

The car is really interesting.  May have been built as a wooden car and steel sheathed, or might have started out all steel (except for the lining).  After its career in silk service, it was used as an express boxcar, since it already had passenger-service trucks and steam and signal lines.

https://www.canadahistory.ca/explore/transportation/canada-silk-road

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, January 17, 2019 9:02 AM

That's everything.  Kinda weird to think of remotely-controlled locomotives on the Classic forum, but since CP built its first robot cars in 1967 I figured this just made the 50 year-old cut. 

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 17, 2019 8:54 AM

Canadian Pacific - At least one of the cars (C-4465 or ROBOT-1) was painted in maroon and gray with the script logo.  The cars were originally built to handle silk shipments.  In addition to "soft" underframes they weren't ballasted well and one of them was derailed by slack action.  The second batch of Robot cars were built from FM and Alco/MLW boosters.  Later cars were rebuilt from more or less standard 50 foot boxcars.

There's a bunch of info on the Trains forum (Home >> Trains Magazine >>Locomotives >> Distributive Power ) including links to photos.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, January 17, 2019 8:42 AM

Yes, although I was thinking of something more valuble than normal express freight, for which the car interior was lined with smooth wood panelling.

I also probably should have asked to name the railroad as well, but to get this far you must know. 

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 17, 2019 6:44 AM

The first six Locotrol cars were former express boxcars originally used in passenger trains.  Their underframes didn't hold up very well.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, January 17, 2019 5:23 AM

yes

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, January 16, 2019 11:46 PM

Should I give a hint?

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, January 12, 2019 10:34 AM

Ok, time for another question.  The original Locotrol I remote control receiving equipment took up too much space to fit in most locomotives, and was normally housed in a separate car.  One railway constructed its first receiver cars by rebuilding some other cars which were originally specially built to carry a very high-value cargo.  Unfortunately these cars were not ideal for their new role, and were all retired within 7 years.

What service were these cars originally built for, and why didn't they last in their new role?

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, January 12, 2019 7:50 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH

VGN did not have baby Train Masters, only C&NW, MILW and TVA had them.

 

True enough.  Virginian's were H16-44's, not H16-66's.  VGN's original design was to assign the smaller units to the relatively flat east end, with the TM's in the mountainous west end. VGN's 25 train masters made up almost a quarter of the domestic production of 105.  The 40 H16-44's made up the largest fleet of that model. VGN never had more than 38 in service at once, since 23 and 28 were wrecked in 1957 and replaced by 48 and 49.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, January 11, 2019 12:05 PM

VGN did not have baby Train Masters, only C&NW, MILW and TVA had them.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 10, 2019 1:51 PM

Very Good!  VGN's "Squarehead" electrics had their numbers on the sides.  The EL-2B's had the numbers in an indicator above the headlight and along the frame rail. The EL-C rectifiers also had end number indicators, and nothing on the cab side. The 40 baby and 25 full-size FM Trainmasters only had the numbers in the glass.  44-ton #6, bought used and sold before the N&W merger, was used as the Suffolk switcher. The cab number was added later, as it originally had only the small indicators on teh hood corners.

N&W painted numbers on the cab sides, 100 + the original VGN number.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, January 10, 2019 12:44 PM

Virginian?

I remember someone pointing out that the NS heritage unit's scheme is not 100% authentic due to the cab numbers.  IMO a small compromise to meet modern regulations.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 9, 2019 8:53 AM

When the New Yorker was inaugurated, 39 was just a nameless Washington-Atlanta train carrying sleepers for Durham and Winston-Salem, and didn't carry the New Yorker's sleepers southbound.  Southern moved cars around among its trains quite a bit.  It looks like 39 got upgraded to full New Yorker status for at least a while before 39 and 40 were dropped in the late 1950s.

The New Yorker and the Southerner shared PRR 148 between Washington and New York.

 

A railroad noted for long trains and large steam locomotives bought Diesel locomotives in the early 1950s.  Only one of its diesels, a GE 44-tonner, actually got its number painted on the side of the locomotive, all of the others only got numbers in the indicators on the ends of the locomotives.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 9, 2019 5:21 AM

When 40 was abolished, sleepers were added to the Southerner?

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, January 7, 2019 8:50 PM

Yes. I do not know of anyother source for the observation cars but the Crescent. I di see one on the rear of the Peach Queen in Charlotte one Morning. I do not remember how it was that I was in Charlotte early enough to see it.

No. 39 did carry one Pullman--from Greensboro to Salisbury. #29 dropped it off at 5:30, and #39 picked it up at 6:25, making it possible for Greensboro-bound passengers to sleep a little later,

Sad to say, in the summer of 1953, the Southern abolished 39 and 40, and the all-coach and mail trains 135 and 136. I had planned to ride 136 from Atlanta to Charlotte in August, but had to ride #36--sleeping stretched out on the seat next to the men's room. (Two years before, I rode #136, sleeping across two of the non-reclining seats because my brother, 15 1/2 months older than I, claimed that end seat as soon as we boarded).

That trip in 1953, from Baton Rouge to Charlotte (MP-SOU), was my last trip on a pass.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, January 7, 2019 6:44 PM

The New Yorker was added northbound only (train 40) in 1948, slotted at 7:00PM betweern the  Crescent Limited at 1:45 and the coach-only (but streamlined) Southerner at 8:45 PM. The New Yorker and the Southerner shared the same PRR connection to New York. The The New Yorker's Pullmans were returned by the Peach Queen, the principal New York-Atlanta train, and the Crescent.  The New Yorker got the Crescent Limited's 3 Cpt 2DR lounge observations in 1950 when the Royal series 5 DBR lounge observations were delivered for the Crescent.

If the ex-Crescent observations were the ones built for the train in 1925, they were delivered in Southern two-tone, upgraded in 1929, and repainted to Pullman green in 1934, and air-conditioned in 1935.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, January 4, 2019 9:12 PM

In 1948, the Southern changed the schedule of one of its northbound Atlanta-Washington trains so that, in conjunction with the PRR, fairly decent overnight Pullman service was available Atlanta to New York, leaving in the evening and arriving in the early afternoon. What was the name of the new schedule? Also, when this service was inaugurated a buffet-lounge car was in the consist--and in 1950 a real live  heavyweight open platform observation car took the place of the buffet lounge. Where had this car been used in regular service? Also, what train took the cars south to Atlanta?

Johnny

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