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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, December 9, 2018 12:56 PM

Glad you're back... perhaps others can post again as the Forums were at a crawl. 

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, December 9, 2018 12:28 PM

Deggesty

You rode the Crescent through Gordonsville?  It was detoured through there?

 

No, we took the ex-SR line between Orange and Charlottesville. All in the dark, so I missed the junction at Orange.

Finally back in after three days of the web site not recognising me.

In the classic era there were two Chicago-Hot Springs Ark.  Pullman lines which each took 16-17 hours with one railroad change.  Give both routes and the railroads involved.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, December 6, 2018 11:13 AM

You rode the Crescent through Gordonsville?  It was detoured through there?

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, December 6, 2018 10:27 AM

Buckingham Branch shows Orange (actual connecting spot - Gordonsville is a short distance away) as a "Station" and not an "Interchange", so...  I guess it depends on whether there are any customers between Gordonsville and Orange (Google Maps shows pulpwood racks and grain hoppers on the BB at or near  Orange).  I rode the Crescent through there last Friday but it was already dark, so I didn't really see anything at Gordonsville.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, December 6, 2018 7:58 AM

Yes. Apparently, this is a truly obscure bit of railroad history. Do you know any other instance in which a railroad built track to gain entrance via trackage rights to a city--and then built its own track to that city and sold its connecting track to the other road?

I do not know if the Buckingham Branch uses that track; could it be that the Cardinal is the only traffic on it? Way back when, the C&O not only had three passenger trains, but also three freights that used it to gain access to the Washington area.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, December 6, 2018 7:26 AM

Sounds like the Virginia Central and the Orange and Alexandria - C&O and Southern in the classic era.  The O&A got trackage rights on the Virginia Central between Gordonsville and Charlottesville to connect to its own line to Lynchburg, later bought the segment and granted Virginia Central successor C&O access to Alexandria VA/Washington DC.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, December 5, 2018 10:10 AM

The railroads were in Virginia.

Johnny

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, November 29, 2018 3:32 PM

Overmod

I have my fingers crossed that this is not another instantiation of the perennial Waycross question that has come up several times in different forms in these quizzes...

 

You are right; there was absolutely no connection with Waycross when the nine mile line was constructed; indeed, I do not think there was any railroad near what is now Waycross at the time of the construction.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 29, 2018 3:04 PM

I have my fingers crossed that this is not another instantiation of the perennial Waycross question that has come up several times in different forms in these quizzes...

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, November 29, 2018 2:32 PM

The two railroads, as originally built, were in one of the original states. As one of them grew, through construction and consolidation with other roads, it covered a large region, and boasted of its service.

Johnny

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 27, 2018 3:17 PM

Deggesty

No, you are too far south. The Cincinnati Southern runs no farther south than Chattanooga. The East Tennessee Virginia and Georgia built down to Atlanta through Austell.

The first arrangement, with trackage rights, from A to C, using roads #1 and #2 is about 29 miles--and road #1's own track is about 28 miles.

 

Also, the AGS presence in Georgia was in the NW corner of the state. It was the Georgia Pacific which built from Austell to Birmingham, and on to Greenville, Mississippi.

The east-west road had "Central" in its name; in time, its name was changed to indicate its eastern and western ends. 

The north-south road, in time, became part of a system that was named for two other cities in the same state, which, in time became part of road named for a region.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, November 23, 2018 11:32 AM

No, you are too far south. The Cincinnati Southern runs no farther south than Chattanooga. The East Tennessee Virginia and Georgia built down to Atlanta through Austell.

The first arrangement, with trackage rights, from A to C, using roads #1 and #2 is about 29 miles--and road #1's own track is about 28 miles.

Johnny

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, November 23, 2018 10:04 AM

Forgot the five foot gauge piece of the question...

This sounds like the section between Austell and Atlanta the involved the Alabama Great Southern and the Cincinnati Southern.  The Cincinnati Southern would still own the line but not operate any trains on it, being operated by NS under lease as the Cincinnati New Orleans & Texas Pacific.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, November 23, 2018 8:12 AM

Road #2 still owns (after various mergers) the track it owned at the time of the construction, but does not, itself, operate trains on that section of track.

Johnny

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 10:43 AM

Dave, you are too far South.

rcd, these were built to five foot gauge? 

This was  a nine mile stretch of track.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 9:07 AM

After AT&SF built its Atlantic & Pacific line to "The Needles" AT&SF and SP swapped sections giving AT&SF its own line from Needles to a Barstow connection with its Southern California Railway.  SP in turn got AT&SF's line to Nogales and Guaymas, Mexico, the base for SP's Sud Pacific de Mexico.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 8:46 AM

Coud be the Gulf and Mobile and the Mobile and Ohio, later merged?

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 11:10 AM

The railroad that built the connecting track was, basically, a north-south road; the other railroad was an east-west road.

Johnny

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 19, 2018 4:02 PM

SisterA, I should have been a little more specific when I suggested that you create a new thread--at the top, when you log on to the forum, you will see an invitation to "Create a New Discussion  Topic." Click on that--and away you can go!

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Posted by SisterA on Monday, November 19, 2018 2:12 PM

Deggesty

Thank you, it's an honor to be on this blog... you guys are so knowledgable.  Let me see if I can apply what you just told me to the timetable I have... and if it gets too complicated, I'll start a new thread if I am allowed to do sl?  What I am trying to work out is a route within a specific time frame... how would I know what time Union Pacific trains arrive in Ketchum and how many trains arrived there each day or week in Spring of 1939... that is the timetable that I have.

 

 
SisterA

 

I'm sorry if this looks like a reply to the last post, it's really a new question on this thread by an absolute newbie (me).  I want to see if a certain train route/connection was possible within a given time frame in the 1930's and I have the correct Union Pacific time table.  I have no idea how to read this thing, however.  I also don't know if UP was the only train going to Ketchum ID in the 30's... but it looks like it? Anyway, I just am staring at this old time table of numbers and times and locations with no idea what it all means. 

 

 

 

SisterA, welcome to the world of Classic Trains online.

 

According to the January, 1930, issue of the Oficial Guide, the UP had a motor-powered train that ran from Shoshone (on the main line to Portland, Oregon) to Ketchum, which was the end of the line, and was served by no other railroad. In 1930, fall sheep shipping was the major industry. In 1936, the Union Pacific began developing Sun Valley as a resort town, and began operating through winter service for people who  enjoyed winter sports such as skiing..

The numbers, from left to right, indicate train time in one direction, miles from the origin (in this case, Shoshone), and train time in the other direction. Bold-faced time numbers are p.m. times. 

I hope the above help in answering your questions.

Incidentally, you could have created a new thread with your question; this thread is an on-going quiz that sometimes has easy answers and sometimes has more difficult answers--such as the one I last proposed.

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 19, 2018 1:55 PM

SisterA

 

I'm sorry if this looks like a reply to the last post, it's really a new question on this thread by an absolute newbie (me).  I want to see if a certain train route/connection was possible within a given time frame in the 1930's and I have the correct Union Pacific time table.  I have no idea how to read this thing, however.  I also don't know if UP was the only train going to Ketchum ID in the 30's... but it looks like it? Anyway, I just am staring at this old time table of numbers and times and locations with no idea what it all means. 

 

SisterA, welcome to the world of Classic Trains online.

According to the January, 1930, issue of the Oficial Guide, the UP had a motor-powered train that ran from Shoshone (on the main line to Portland, Oregon) to Ketchum, which was the end of the line, and was served by no other railroad. In 1930, fall sheep shipping was the major industry. In 1936, the Union Pacific began developing Sun Valley as a resort town, and began operating through winter service for people who  enjoyed winter sports such as skiing..

The numbers, from left to right, indicate train time in one direction, miles from the origin (in this case, Shoshone), and train time in the other direction. Bold-faced time numbers are p.m. times. 

I hope the above help in answering your questions.

Incidentally, you could have created a new thread with your question; this thread is an on-going quiz that sometimes has easy answers and sometimes has more difficult answers--such as the one I last proposed.

Johnny

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 19, 2018 8:02 AM

Both roads were built with a five foot gauge.

Johnny

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Posted by SisterA on Saturday, November 17, 2018 2:23 PM

 

I'm sorry if this looks like a reply to the last post, it's really a new question on this thread by an absolute newbie (me).  I want to see if a certain train route/connection was possible within a given time frame in the 1930's and I have the correct Union Pacific time table.  I have no idea how to read this thing, however.  I also don't know if UP was the only train going to Ketchum ID in the 30's... but it looks like it? Anyway, I just am staring at this old time table of numbers and times and locations with no idea what it all means. 

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 11:57 AM

At the time of the construction #2 had the name of a state in its name.

Johnny

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 11:51 AM

Now you are in the opposite direction.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 11:14 AM

Just guessing, but Bangor and Aroostick and Maine Central?

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 10:42 AM

No, Dave, you are in the wrong area. 

Johnny

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 8:43 AM

Thanks for the details.  Regarding Johnny's question, I think the railroads involved are the Louisville and Nashville and the Nashville, Chattanooga and St. Louis, but someone else can win the prize with the details.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 7:21 AM

To fill it out:

The Northern Electric (later Sacramento Northern) owned the isolated Vallejo and Northern line west of Sacramento. After the Western Pacific bought and merged the San Francisco-Sacramento (former Oakland Antioch & Eastern) and the Sacramento Northern into the new, larger Sacramento Northern the SN built the line from Creede to Vacaville Junction, known as the Creede branch, opened in 1929.  The line was built to SF-S standards with 1200-1500 volt overhead (the first SN line raised to 1500v).  The former V&N was always 600V, never third rail like the former NE.  The new line never offered passenger service.  The eastern end was relocated from Creede to Dozier in the late 1930s as the result of a flood control project.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 10:32 PM

Found that out, and Johnny Dig was first on the mark with Charlottesville, and his question is a good one.

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