daveklepper The above seems a logial answer. But did not the IC run a train labeled The City of St. Louis that handled cars off the Seminol and the City of Miami (the latter every second or third day), with the southbound cars going on trains named for the main-line connections?
The above seems a logial answer. But did not the IC run a train labeled The City of St. Louis that handled cars off the Seminol and the City of Miami (the latter every second or third day), with the southbound cars going on trains named for the main-line connections?
Dave,
The IC did not operate a train named the City of St. Louis. I believe you are thinking of the Wabash/UP streamliner of that name which ran between St. Louis and California.
Johnny has explained the IC's connecting train service to Carbondale where the through coaches and sleepers from/to St. Louis were added to/taken off the IC's major trains that served the South.
Mark
Thanks for the correction!
I would imagine that any northbound-only train for the purpose intended ran all the way from New Orleans to Chicago and not from some intermediate point like Jackson or Memphis.
But I don't have a clue to its name!
Yes indeed, the train ran only northbound from New Orleans to Chicago.
Here's a hint to get this thread moving again. The name of the train was the same as that of a people of south Louisiana who were of mixed ethnicity and their style of cuisine as well.
You must be thinking of the Creole, as it was northbound onlyunder that name. Its southbound counterpart was No. 25, the Southern Express, even though the Express carried coaches only by 1958.
Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA
AWP290 You must be thinking of the Creole, as it was northbound onlyunder that name. Its southbound counterpart was No. 25, the Southern Express, even though the Express carried coaches only by 1958. Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA
No.8, the Creole is the right train Bob. You get the cigar and get to ask the next question.
No. 8 carried a New Orleans to Memphis sleeper and picked up a cafe-lounge car in Champaign for the final leg of its run into Chicago. Other than this it was all coach in the 50's. Its consist was deadheaded back to New Orleans as No.25, the Southern Express, an all stops (south of Champaign) local mail and express train. A single coach was open basically as a rider coach for No. 25's train crew but open to any passenger unfortunate enough to have to ride No. 25.
While a student at the Univ of Ill in the '50's I often rode the Creole on Friday evenings from Champaign to Homewood. The cafe-lounge car was famous for its apple pie which was baked on-board. It was served hot from the oven and when topped with a scoop of ice cream or a wedge of cheddar on the side was truly fit for a king.
I don't know if No.25 ever carried sleepers. My 1937 OG shows it running both south and north (No. 26) as an all coach train named the Fast Mail. At that time the Creole ran in both directions and was numbered train 1 and 2. I can't readily lay hands on my 1946 OG, but believe it was shortly after WW2 that the Creole became No. 8 running only northbound and the Fast Mail became the Southern Express running only southbound.
Mark, others contributed more to this discussion than I did. I simply came up with a name, mostly based on the last clue you gave.
I can come up with a question, but I think probably someone else should, based on my minimal contribution.
Bob
KCSfanI don't know if No.25 ever carried sleepers. My 1937 OG shows it running both south and north (No. 26) as an all coach train named the Fast Mail. At that time the Creole ran in both directions and was numbered train 1 and 2. I can't readily lay hands on my 1946 OG, but believe it was shortly after WW2 that the Creole became No. 8 running only northbound and the Fast Mail became the Southern Express running only southbound.
Johnny
al-in-chgo 1. Sorry -- Don't remember. 2. I think it was Jackson, MS to Chicago - IC's old "steam line" station that no longer exists. Reason: African-Americans were leaving the south to go north in search of jobs, but little or no return traffic was generated. Believe the passenger cars were deadheaded back; none of the SB coaches were in revenue service. g'day! - al
1. Sorry -- Don't remember.
2. I think it was Jackson, MS to Chicago - IC's old "steam line" station that no longer exists.
Reason: African-Americans were leaving the south to go north in search of jobs, but little or no return traffic was generated. Believe the passenger cars were deadheaded back; none of the SB coaches were in revenue service.
g'day! - al
Al,
Since Bob has lateralled the ball I think you should ask the next question.
You were the first to reply, got one of the terminals correct, mentioned the trains equipment was deadheaded back to its starting point and were on the mark with the reason it ran only northbound. So take it away Al.
KCSfan al-in-chgo 1. Sorry -- Don't remember. 2. I think it was Jackson, MS to Chicago - IC's old "steam line" station that no longer exists. Reason: African-Americans were leaving the south to go north in search of jobs, but little or no return traffic was generated. Believe the passenger cars were deadheaded back; none of the SB coaches were in revenue service. g'day! - al Al, Since Bob has lateralled the ball I think you should ask the next question. You were the first to reply, got one of the terminals correct, mentioned the trains equipment was deadheaded back to its starting point and were on the mark with the reason it ran only northbound. So take it away Al. Mark
Thanks, Mark, glad to oblige!
I'm going to make this next question open-ended: Describe the collision of a GG-1 motor hauling a passenger train at speed into Union Station (DC) in the winter of 1953. Specifics as well as damages and casualties (if any) will win the question. You might also point out that the accident took place shortly before an important, previously scheduled national event. - Have fun! . Al
Good question. Remember the event. Ballast kicked up from the roadbed closed an angle **** probably just in front of the first coach, thus separating the train air-brake line from the locomotive, so brakes were only effective on the locomotive. GG-1 and train ran through bumping post into the main concourse through the wall, and the floor of the concourse could not support the GG-1, so the front fell into the basement. No fatalities and relatively minor injuries. GG-1 cut up into pieces and removed and then reassembled and put back to work. Someone else can add the additonal information you requested and can have the honor of asking the next question.
http://www.corbisimages.com/images/U1215047INP.jpg?size=67&uid=%7B12475df5-349a-4c5a-b8eb-16de8cfb210a%7D
http://www.corbisimages.com/images/BE067434.jpg?size=67&uid=%7Ba01806e6-6b5c-4d3e-8ca8-900cdbf1441a%7D
http://www.corbisimages.com/images/U1017765ACME.jpg?size=67&uid=%7B7f32e261-1153-40f5-9384-0dbcd822426e%7D
http://www.corbisimages.com/images/U1215163INP.jpg?size=67&uid=%7B7c001776-12a8-4f7e-bcdb-cb7ce576044b%7D
President-elect and Mrs. Eisenhower on a train from New York to Washington on Jan. 18, 1953.
Dave has already described what happened and correctly mentioned there were no fatalities and only minor injuries which were probably sustained mostly by passengers who had left their seats and were preparing to disembark. The event took place a few days prior to Dwight Eisenhower's presidential inaguration.
The train had slowed appreciably and was not moving very fast when the GG1 went through the bumping post and wound up in the basement of the station. There was not time enough to remove the GG1 before the large influx of passengers arriving in Washington for the inaguartion so a temporary wooden floor was built over the motor and the concourse remained open to passengers. It was not until after the inaguaration when passenger volumes returned to normal that the GG1 was lifted out of the basement, re-railed, and permanent repairs made to the station concourse.
KCSfan Dave has already described what happened and correctly mentioned there were no fatalities and only minor injuries which were probably sustained mostly by passengers who had left their seats and were preparing to disembark. The event took place a few days prior to Dwight Eisenhower's presidential inaguration. The train had slowed appreciably and was not moving very fast when the GG1 went through the bumping post and wound up in the basement of the station. There was not time enough to remove the GG1 before the large influx of passengers arriving in Washington for the inaguartion so a temporary wooden floor was built over the motor and the concourse remained open to passengers. It was not until after the inaguaration when passenger volumes returned to normal that the GG1 was lifted out of the basement, re-railed, and permanent repairs made to the station concourse. Mark
Good info from all. Who can tell us what advance notice the terminal got that they had a train coming in that couldn't stop, and from what source? - al
KCSfan There was not time enough to remove the GG1 before the large influx of passengers arriving in Washington for the inaguartion so a temporary wooden floor was built over the motor and the concourse remained open to passengers. It was not until after the inaguaration when passenger volumes returned to normal that the GG1 was lifted out of the basement, re-railed, and permanent repairs made to the station concourse
No, the writer of the article in Trains about this event quoted someone as saying that the baggage check for the locomotive (it fell into the baggage room) was lost, and it took that long to find it.
When I was in Washington the following June, it was easy to see where the repairs had been made, and I think that I saw the spot aganin again in the fall of 1967. I'm not really sure about what I saw in the summer of 1974. All trace is, of course, now gone.
Another quip about the event mentioned an explosion at a power plant about the same time, and referred to the "scorched earth" policy of the departing Democrats.
The article in Trains gave a full account of the event, including the immediate cause of the failure to stop the train with the brakes.
al-in-chgoGood info from all. Who can tell us what advance notice the terminal got that they had a train coming in that couldn't stop, and from what source? - al
WAG The train announcer? (Al if in the odd chance I'm right please pass it on to someone else.
Thx IGN
narig01 al-in-chgoGood info from all. Who can tell us what advance notice the terminal got that they had a train coming in that couldn't stop, and from what source? - al WAG The train announcer? (Al if in the odd chance I'm right please pass it on to someone else. Thx IGN
A good guess, but I am told someone on duty at the tower noticed the train moving at above speed (and with its horn blasting) and telephoned -- regular hard-line telephoned -- the station master. Fortunately, only a few people had to be hustle out of that waiting area.
I would say Daveklepper gets the win but if he chooses not to post the next question any of you other gents who contributed can have a shot at it. - allen
Why could not the engineer stop the train? An anglecock in the brake line had been closed--where and by whom could not be determined.
The investigation evenually concluded it must have been ballast kicked up from the roadbed, because there had been perfectly satisfactory brake applications where speed restriction required them after leaving the Baltimore station, and there was no New Carrolton at the time, the train was scheduled non-stop Baltimore - Washington. Apparenly, the train did run through a section of track under maintenance where the tamping process had not been completed after installation of new ties or rail or whatever.
If the concensus is that I should ask the next question, I will do so, but another candidate might have one ready right now, while I have to think a day or so.
daveklepper The investigation evenually concluded it must have been ballast kicked up from the roadbed, because there had been perfectly satisfactory brake applications where speed restriction required them after leaving the Baltimore station, and there was no New Carrolton at the time, the train was scheduled non-stop Baltimore - Washington. Apparenly, the train did run through a section of track under maintenance where the tamping process had not been completed after installation of new ties or rail or whatever. If the concensus is that I should ask the next question, I will do so, but another candidate might have one ready right now, while I have to think a day or so.
Johnny, you have just asked the next question. I'll try to remember a similar incident but at the present time, I don't know of any. I think there were some freight loss-of-brakes incidents posted, and a similar thing can occur with a conventional streetcar, when ballast hits the release or escape valve on the underfloor air tank of a conventional straight-air streetcar airbrake system. On one occasion at the trolley musuem where I was a regular motorman, this did happen on an open car, and I stopped the car to avoid an accident by throwing the reverse key, when I realized the car had no airbrakes. On a safety car, the loss of pressure in the airtank would throw the car into emergency braking before all the air escaped, but this old open car was just straight airbrakes. So, anyone know of an incident of loss of brakes similar to the GG1 at Washington? Need not necesserily have a disaster as result.
daveklepper So, anyone know of an incident of loss of brakes similar to the GG1 at Washington? Need not necesserily have a disaster as result.
In what way were the GG-1's superior to the the New Haven's EF-3 double-end freight (some wtih boilders for passenger service) streamlined electrics, both 4-6-6-4 (2-C-C-2)?
In what ways were the EF-3's superior?.
daveklepperThe investigation evenually concluded it must have been ballast kicked up from the roadbed, because there had been perfectly satisfactory brake applications where speed restriction required them after leaving the Baltimore station, and there was no New Carrolton at the time, the train was scheduled non-stop Baltimore - Washington. Apparenly, the train did run through a section of track under maintenance where the tamping process had not been completed after installation of new ties or rail or whatever. If the concensus is that I should ask the next question, I will do so, but another candidate might have one ready right now, while I have to think a day or so.
I can remember a couple of years ago a truck not having brakes when some rocks knocked off one of the airlines on a truck. With a truck this is easy to solve as the other line is an emergency line. (If the red line is disconnected or looses pressure it sets the parking brakes.)
Rgds IGN
daveklepperIn what way were the GG-1's superior to the the New Haven's EF-3 double-end freight (some wtih boilders for passenger service) streamlined electrics, both 4-6-6-4 (2-C-C-2)?
daveklepper In what way were the GG-1's superior to the the New Haven's EF-3 double-end freight (some wtih boilders for passenger service) streamlined electrics, both 4-6-6-4 (2-C-C-2)? In what ways were the EF-3's superior?.
Tex did get almost all the answers. Regading looks, that can be a matter of opinion. All the electric 4-6-6-4"s, the New Haven's EP-3, EP-4, and EF-3, and the PRR GG-1's, rode like a dream, really about the best riding locomotives anywhere. I suppose the Little Joes of the South Shore and Milwaukee would ride as well, but they never got the chance to get up to speed the way the New Haven and Pennsy electrics did. Top authorized speed on the PRR was 100 in spots and 70 in the electric zone on the New Haven. Although the EF-3's were built for 60mph, it was found there was no problem in their running at 65 and then at 70 on passenger trains and they did so.
For the GG-1: Over ten times as many built, longer service life (but that do to mistaken NYNH&H policy rather than the locomotive itself) higher top speed.
For the EF-3, Slightly higher horsepower, much greater tracive effort. Not mentioned so far: greater crew comfort and visibility.
So take it away Tex!
Wow I always get the question right when I don't have one to ask.... Lets see. Always hard to be specific enough without giving it away.
What railroad and daily train (number not a name) worked a route where it regularly crossed a major highway going backwards (both eastbound and westbound). Why did it do this?
Texas Zepher What railroad and daily train (number not a name) worked a route where it regularly crossed a major highway going backwards (both eastbound and westbound). Why did it do this?
TZ,
This may not be the train you had in mind but the Sarasota section of the West Coast Champion, ACL No's 91 & 92, crossed 4-lane US Hwy 41 (the Tamiami Trail) at grade, running backwards enroute both to and from Tampa. The Sarasota line joined the Jacksonville-Tampa mainline at Uceta Yard about 4 miles east of Tampa Union Station. The junction was such that when No. 92 coming north from Sarasota got onto the mainline it was headed east (toward Jacksonville) and then backed west the 4 miles into the station. The reverse was true of No. 91 leaving Tampa bound for Sarasota.
I rode these trains a number of times and would stand on the rear vestibule of the last car alongside the conductor during the reverse moves. There was an air whistle attached to the brake line which hung on a folding metal gate which closed off the rear vestibule and he would blow this as we approached the US 41 and the several other grade crossings which were traversed during the reverse moves.
IIRC I made the last of these trips in 1952 and subsequent to that time an overpass was constructed to carry US 41 over the tracks but there were several other streets which continued to be crossed at grade.
KCSfanThis may not be the train you had in mind but the Sarasota section of the West Coast Champion, ACL No's 91 & 92, crossed 4-lane US Hwy 41 (the Tamiami Trail) at grade, running backwards enroute both to and from Tampa.
Your's is a better story than the train I am thinking of. The one I am thinking of only had a flagman to go out into the highway and stop the cars. If I am remembering properly that is also partly the cause of a horrible accident involving a school bus. The other part is incorrectly set hand brakes.
The highway is US50.
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