K4sPRR La Fonda?
La Fonda?
La Fonda it is! Congrats , K4 and the floor is all yours.
El Conquistidor?
Couldn't seem to get into the Forum last night to post this question.
The 1947 order for the Golden Rocket. RI took delivery of it's set of cars.....the SP bailed out. The diner for the RI Golden Rocket set was El Comedor, while the name for the SP diner was to be????
FlyingCrow You never knew what train shots would end up in these 30's era feel-good musicals. I just watched "Broadway Melody of 1936" this morning before going to work. (Nothing like movies at 4:30 in the morning). So, ZO...who gets to Pass GO and collect $200?
You never knew what train shots would end up in these 30's era feel-good musicals. I just watched "Broadway Melody of 1936" this morning before going to work. (Nothing like movies at 4:30 in the morning).
So, ZO...who gets to Pass GO and collect $200?
Since you already "danced" with the answer, you get the next shot.
wanswheel Excerpt from The Carole Lombard in Macy's Window by Charles Eckert, in Quarterly Review of Film Studies (1978)...
Excerpt from The Carole Lombard in Macy's Window by Charles Eckert, in Quarterly Review of Film Studies (1978)...
Thanks, Wanswheel, for this excerpt concerning the special train for the film 42nd Street. I did some further snooping and uncovered a Warner Bros. short called The 42nd. Street Special which describes the train and the stars who were traveling on this train. Despite the name The Better Times Special mentioned in your excerpt I think they ended up calling the train The 42nd. Street Special based on the material I uncovered online. The following description is the from the Internet Movie Database about the short The 42nd. Street Special:
"As part of a publicity campaign for the film 42nd Street, Warner Bros. studios, with the assistance of the General Electric Company, assembled a 7-car train they called "The 42nd. Street Special". With numerous Warner Bros. contract stars as passengers, the train made a tour across the USA. It was scheduled to make stops in more than 100 cities, ending in Washington, DC for the March 1933 inauguration of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. This short film records the send-off for this trip in Los Angeles. Using a microphone set up on the rear platform of the last car, several people addressed the crowd attending the event. Those making remarks include performers, studio executives, and the mayor of Los Angeles. Written by David Glagovsky <dglagovsky@prodigy.net>"
I also have here a link which shows a picture of the observation end of the 42nd. Street Special filled with stars and sporting dual drumheads, one for GE and one for Warner Bros.. -
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RKWtpew6Y9Q/SSg8jbaD7yI/AAAAAAAAB-o/KcIM_T6StV8/s320/67E-BB.jpg
This short is available as part of the "Busby Berkey Collection" on Warner Home Video.
Excerpt from The Carole Lombard in Macy's Window by Charles Eckert, in Quarterly Review of Film Studies (1978)
Awakened by the brakes of the train, Bette Davis pulled aside a window curtain.Beneath a winter moon the Kansas plains lay grey with late winter snow. The mail clerk glimpsed Bette's face, but was too astounded by the pullman car itself to recognize his favorite star. The pullman was totally covered with gold leaf. The rest of the train was brilliantly silvered. From one car a tall radio aerial emerged mysteriously. Lost in his wonder, the clerk barely noticed that the train was underway again. He would later tell his children about the train with the golden Pullman, perhaps fashioned for some Western gold baron or for a Croesus from a foreign land. But he would never know that the interior of the train held greater wonders still.
As the cars gathered speed, other passengers shifted in their sleep, among them Laura La Plante, Preston Foster and numerous blond women with muscular legs (was one of them the supernal Toby Wing?). In an adjacent lounge car Claire Dodd, Lyle Talbot and Tom Mix were still awake, attending to a reminiscing Leo Carillo. In still another car a scene as surrealistic as a Dali floated through the Kansas night. Glenda Farrell lay in her Jantzen swimsuit upon a miniature Malibu Beach beneath a manufactured California sky made up of banks of GE ultraviolet lamps. The sand on the beach was genuine sand. Everything else was unreal. The next to last car held no human occupants. The hum, barely discernible above the clack of the rails, emerged from the GE Monitor-top refrigerator positioned next to the GE all-electric range. When one grew accustomed to the dark, one saw that this was merely a demonstration kitchen lifted bodily, it seemed, from Macy's or Gimbels, and compressed into the oblong confines of a railway diner. In the last car was a magnificent white horse. An embroidered saddle blanket draped over a rail beside him bore the name "King." The horse was asleep. The occasion that had gathered this congeries of actresses and appliances, cowboys and miniaturized Malibus, into one passenger train and positioned them in mid-Kansas on a night in February 1933, was the inauguration of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. If the logic of this escapes you, you must make the acquaintance of Charles Einfeld, sale manager for Warner Brothers.
Charles Einfeld was a dreamer. But unlike yours and mine, his dreams always came true. Charles Einfeld dreamed (and it came true) that Warner's new musical, 42nd Street, would open in New York on the eve of Roosevelt's inauguration, that the stars of the picture (with other contract stars, if possible) would journey to New York on a train to be called the Better Times Special, and that they would then go to Washington for the inauguration itself. The film, after all, was a boost for the New Deal philosophy of pulling together to whip the depression, and its star, Warner Baxter, played a role that was a patent allegory of FDR. Einfeld then sought a tie-up with a large concern that would share the expenses of the train in exchange for a quantity of egregious advertising. General Electric, already linked with Warner as a supplier of appliances for movie props, rose to the bait. The gold and silver train was given a definitive name: The Warner-GE Better Times Special. As it crossed North America from Los Angeles to New York its radio broadcasted Dick Powell's jazz contralto, GE ad-copy, and optimism (GE, as the parent organization of RCA and NBC, was in a position to facilitate hook-ups with local stations). When the train arrived at a major city the stars and chorus girls motored to the largest available GE showroom and demonstrated whatever appliances they found themselves thrust up against. In the evenings they appeared at a key theatre for a mini-premiere. Their ultima Thule was, of course, 42nd Street. On 9 March bawdy, gaudy 42nd Street looked as spiffy as a drunkard in church: American flags and red, white and blue bunting draped the buildings; the ordinary incandescent bulbs were replaced with scintillant 'golden' GE lamps, a fleet of Chrysler automobiles (a separate tie-up) and GE automotive equipment was readied for a late afternoon parade that would catch those leaving work. In the North River, a cruiser stood at anchor to fire a salute - a great organ boom to cap off a roulade of aerial bombs. As the train approached New York from New Rochelle, a pride of small airplanes accompanied it. Once it arrived, the schedule was as exacting as a coronation: a reception at Grand Central by the Forty-Second Street Property Owners and Merchants Association, the parade, a GE sales meeting at the Sam Harris Theatre, and the grand premiere at the Strand.
FlyingCrow 42nd Street Special......PRR..... NY-DC From the movie with Dick Powell. 1933, I believe....she was married to Al Jolsen at the time.
42nd Street Special......PRR..... NY-DC
From the movie with Dick Powell. 1933, I believe....she was married to Al Jolsen at the time.
So close and yet.....so close. The train I was thinking of was New Haven New York-Boston 42nd Street.
There was a 42nd Street Special that Warner Brothers chartered for the promotion of the film "42nd Street" in 1933 which did a cross country tour. Unfortunately, the only information I have been able to come up for this train were passing references in newspaper articles about the film.
Anyway Buck, go ahead and ask the next question.
"West Coast Al, IIRC the Santa Fe streamliners all had to have "Chief" in the title. "
Sixty years ago, when I was in elementary school, I would see ads for the Santa Fe in the National Geographic. Those ads always named 5 trains: The Super Chief, The Chief, The El Capitan, The Grand Canyon, and The California Limited. As someone else said, there were several lesser streamliners that were not Chiefs. And The Grand Canyon, The El Capitan, and The California Limited were transcontinental trains that were not Chiefs either.
Ok, next question....
Ruby Keeler would be dancing up a storm in this train....
Name, RR and endpoints, please.
passengerfan Don't have time to dig out timetables but seem to recall that the City of Denver trains operated with Super domes for a period of time after the Olympian was discontinued and before sale to the CN. Al - in - Stockton
Don't have time to dig out timetables but seem to recall that the City of Denver trains operated with Super domes for a period of time after the Olympian was discontinued and before sale to the CN.
Al - in - Stockton
Johnny
adkdivfan Following the discontinuance of the Olympian Hiawatha in 1961, what two naned Milwaukee Road trains (that were not Hiawathas) carried Super Dome cars until their sale to CN in 1964? The route used was 1 mile shorter than Southern's Salisbury-Asheville route of the early 70's, therefore quite possibly the shortest regular dome route operated.
Following the discontinuance of the Olympian Hiawatha in 1961, what two naned Milwaukee Road trains (that were not Hiawathas) carried Super Dome cars until their sale to CN in 1964? The route used was 1 mile shorter than Southern's Salisbury-Asheville route of the early 70's, therefore quite possibly the shortest regular dome route operated.
When did the Madison trains begin carrying the dome cars? I have not checked all of my Milwaukee Road timetables, but in November of 1962, the only trains other than the Hiawathas with domes assigned were two unnamed trains to, and from, Milwaukee (one car was able to cover the service) (#'s 12,23, 27, & 58); this seems to have been the shortest regularly assigned dome car service.
My family and I spent a day in August of 1972 going from Biltmore to Salisbury and back. It was quite a ride, especially when we were going through the loops. Going, the train was turned on the wye at Salisbury, and coming back, the train was turned on the wye in Biltmore before letting thepassengers off--and then backed to, I think, the yard in Asheville.
Yes.
Would the trains be the Chicago-Madison Varsity and Sioux?
Excerpt from Passenger Trains of Yesteryear on the Minneapolis & St. Louis by Frank P. Donovan, Jr.
When the Rock Island constructed its line to St. Paul in 1902, the M&StL routed its Chicago trains over Illinois Central south of Albert Lea. To celebrate the occassion a new train fittingly called the "North Star Limited" replaced the somewhat shabby "Cannon Ball." But railroad men still referred to Nos. 5 and 6. According to Mr. A.B. Cutts of Minneapolis, who was the road's passenger agent at the time, a contest was held and the sum of twenty-five dollars was offerred for the best name. Vice-president L.F. Day and Mr. Cutts selected "North Star Limited" out of approximately a thousand entries. The train split into two sections south of Albert Lea, one going to Chicago, the other over the Iowa Central to Albia, and thence on the Wabash to St. Louis.
http://collections.mnhs.org/MNHistoryMagazine/articles/30/v30i03p232-241.pdf
Looking forward to adk's question
Very informative thread!
adkdivfan Minnneapolis & St. Louis; Albert Lea MN; Saint Paul.
Minnneapolis & St. Louis; Albert Lea MN; Saint Paul.
As to the Fruit Growers Express, I relied on Wikipedia (which does not always tell everything as it should), which does not mention any of the early stockholders, but simply says that N&W, NYNH&H, and C&EI were major stockholders by the end of 1920. Reference is made to The Great Yellow Fleet, but apparently the contributor did not think it necessary to give earlier detail. A question: why name any stockholder if the first ones are not named? Thank you, Mike and Bob, for providing more detail.
adkdivfan, take it away.
According to The Great Yellow Fleet, by John White, there were ten founding stockholders on Fruit Growers Express, none of which was N&W, NYNH&H, or C&EI. These roads bought in to the company about six months later. White does not name all the initial shareholders, but says they included Southern Railway (whose Henry Spencer - son of Samuel Spencer - was the first president,) Pennsylvania Railroad, Atlantic Coast Line, and Baltimore & Ohio.
Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA
Buck and Johnny, please forgive me. --Mike
Excerpt from Fruit Growers Express Reefer by Harold W. Russell (July 2009 Model Railroader)
The Fruit Growers Express Co. (FGE) was a railroad-owned refrigerator car company that served shippers in the east and south. It was incorporated on March 18, 1920 as the result of a ruling by the Federal Trade Commission that forced Armour & Co., a meat packer, out of the produce shipping business. The Atlantic Coast Line, Baltimore & Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Southern were the original stockholders, but by the end of 1920, the Chicago & Eastern Illinois; New York, New Haven & Hartford; and Norfolk & Western also joined the new company.
Excerpt from Report of the Federal Trade Commission on Private Car Lines (1919)
It has already been stated that the stockholders of Armour & Co. hold the stock of the Fruit Growers Express Inc. in the same proportion as their holdings of stock in the packing company. The circumstances of the incorporation of the Fruit Growers Express Inc., in 1914 have also been explained. The company was organized for the purpose of owning and operating the fruit and vegetable cars and the icing stations of the Armour Car Lines. The financial operation of the Fruit Growers Express Inc. has also been discussed in chapter 3. It was there shown that this company has been doing a profitable business. This chapter deals with the company's relations with the carriers and shippers, from the standpoint of the public interest.
Although the Fruit Growers Express Inc. has been incorporated only since 1914, the interest of Armour & Co. in the furnishing of refrigerator cars and refrigeration service for the transportation of fruits and vegetables dates back to a much earlier period. In the early nineties Armour & Co. began to experiment with the operation of a line of refrigerator cars for the carrying of California fruits to the East. As the business increased more cars were obtained either by purchase of car lines already existing or by the building of new cars until several thousand cars were employed in that traffic by the beginning of the present century. The Armour cars in the fruit and vegetable traffic have been operated under various trade names, namely, Fruit Growers Express Inc., Continental Fruit Express, Kansas City Fruit Express and Tropical Refrigerator Express. The cars belonging to the Armour interests in this business are now operated under one name - Fruit Growers Express Inc. Early in this present century the Armour business from the West began to decline, for certain of the western carriers, namely, the Union Pacific and Southern Pacific Railroads, jointly, the Wabash and Missouri Pacific Railroads, jointly, and the St. Louis-San Francisco Railway formed subsidiary car companies of their own for the handling of perishable products. As these companies grew and developed the western railroads became less dependent upon outside parties such as the Armour Car Lines for refrigerator cars in the transportation of the western products. Armour & Co.'s part in the handling of the fruit and vegetable traffic from the West has now declined until it is a very minor part of the fruit and vegetable business handled by the Armour (F. G. E.) cars.
As the western traffic declined, however, a volume of business was being built up in the new growing districts of the Southeast. Carriers there were not equipped to handle the growing business and the Armour cars were used in that section as early as the nineties. This traffic in the Southeast has grown until it is now the most important part of the business handled in the 5,660 cars owned by the Fruit Growers Express, Inc.
The larger part of the Fruit Growers Express business has been that of furnishing railroads with cars upon which the usual mileage has been received. Certain cars, however, have been leased for various periods of time to individual firms, a list of which is printed as Exhibit 3.
The chief means by which the Armour interests have built up the business of furnishing refrigerator cars and refrigeration service for the transportation of perishables has been the "exclusive contract." Under the terms of such a contract the car line agrees to furnish the contracting railroad company with suitable cars sufficient to handle the business that is offered to it by shippers on its lines and the carrier in turn agrees to use no cars other than those furnished by the private car company. The reasons given for this arrangement were that perishable crops are in most instances seasonal, and that while railroads may enjoy a heavy tonnage for a few months of the year in perishable freight it is probable that the special equipment provided for this movement would be idle for a long period, since the railroad which provided itself with sufficient cars to meet the maximum demand could not use refrigerators other than as box cars during the remainder of the year; and that a corporation, on the other hand, which made it a business to provide such equipment would be able to keep it employed during the entire year by sending the cars to those particular sections needing them from time to time. These exclusive contracts grant a complete monopoly of the business to one car company. Armour & Co. secured an exclusive contract with the Southern Pacific Railroad in 1897 and with other western carriers at later dates. These contracts in the West did not remain in effect for any great length of time, however, for, as previously stated, the western roads began to provide their own refrigerator cars about the beginning of the present century and soon had little need for outside equipment.
In the Southeast an exclusive contract was secured with the Central of Georgia Railway in 1898. Other roads followed at later dates. At the present time the Fruit Growers Express Inc. has exclusive contracts with seven of the southeastern roads, including among them the Atlantic Coast Line Railroad, the Seaboard Air Line Railway, and the Florida East Coast Railroad, three of the principal roads transporting fruits and vegetables from this section. Until recently the Fruit Growers Express Inc. held contracts with 29 railroads of the Southeast and two in the Middle West. It had a practical monopoly of the business of transporting fruits and vegetables from the Southeast, and the situation is therefore worthy of detailed consideration.
Deggesty New question: in 1911, the IC participated in through overnight service between Chicago and the Twin Cities. What road took the cars into and out of the Twin Cities? What was the junction? Which Twin City was the terminal (don't let the name of the other road deceive you)?
New question: in 1911, the IC participated in through overnight service between Chicago and the Twin Cities. What road took the cars into and out of the Twin Cities? What was the junction? Which Twin City was the terminal (don't let the name of the other road deceive you)?
FlyingCrow Wow...everyone jumped on this but Johnny got it first. N&W, NH and C&EI. And, yes, it was a group of strange bedfellows for sure. The floor is all yours, sir. Bob...I went to the show late in the PM then directly to the annual meeting banquet.
Wow...everyone jumped on this but Johnny got it first. N&W, NH and C&EI. And, yes, it was a group of strange bedfellows for sure.
The floor is all yours, sir.
Bob...I went to the show late in the PM then directly to the annual meeting banquet.
These were use for tomato crop.
I have several Fruit Growers car on my Southern Railway System. These were al factory made by Intermountain. Southern was one too. They use them outside Charleston, SC on Johns Island were I gew up.
Probably SP and UP and maybe Sante Fe. Unless one of the eastern roads like PRR or NYC got involved as recipient then SF did not.
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I'll guess UP, SP, M-K-T. - al
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