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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, April 2, 2011 6:38 PM

WSM in Nashville, Tennessee, broadcast the passing of the L&N's southbound  Pan American past its radio tower for many years. Of course, it passed long before midnight since it was by then south of Birmingham.

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Posted by K4sPRR on Saturday, April 2, 2011 5:41 PM

Ok, here's the next one.  This particular passenger train was a radio star throughout  the depression years and into WWII,  the same train inspired Hank Williams Sr (Jr. wasn't around yet) to write a lyric in its honor..."a midnight train is whining low".   Name the train, city and radio station that broadcast live its passing by a local tower. 

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Posted by wanswheel on Friday, April 1, 2011 12:10 PM

K4sPRR, yes your turn.

 

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Posted by K4sPRR on Friday, April 1, 2011 10:00 AM

Federal Express, it was involved in a wreck that day.

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Posted by wanswheel on Friday, April 1, 2011 9:19 AM

What train did Roger Bresnahan ride on July 11, 1911?

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Thursday, March 31, 2011 10:19 AM

wanswheel

Dixie Limited?

http://www.railroadheritage.org/ImageStorage/Img--00002299.jpg

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/qf/c/ModernMechanix/3-1938/med_milk_fuel.jpg

Excerpt from Railway Age Gazette, Nov. 22, 1912

The Chicago & Eastern Illinois, in connection with the Louisville & Nashville, Nashville Chattanooga & St. Louis, Western & Atlantic, Central of Georgia, Georgia Southern & Florida, Atlantic Coast and Florida East Coast, will about December 15 put on a train between Chicago and Florida, to be known as the Dixie de Luxe. The train will be made up wholly of Pullman cars through from Chicago to Palm Beach, via Evansville, Chattanooga, Atlanta and Jacksonville. It will leave Chicago about 10:30 a.m. daily, arriving at Jacksonville the next evening, and at Palm Beach the following morning.

Yes.....it was the Dixie Limited

I came across the Dixie deLuxe name in the editorial section of the December, 1912 issue of the Official Guide.  But, the February 1913 Official Guide shows this service as the Dixie Limited.  Why the change of name I do not know.  Also, the Dixie Limited is shown only as a Chicago-Jacksonville train with thru cars operating on connecting trains of the FEC.

In the decade before WWI, the "deLuxe" phenomenon in passenger train nomenclature was in its height.  The industry, in trying to get the premium dollar for premium dollar service, provided such services for a small clientele who demanded a high level of service and luxury and was willing to pay for it.  Other trains that were offered and branded to this elite clientele include:

- Santa Fe deLuxe

- Shasta Limited deLuxe, Shasta Limited Train deLuxe

- Soo Pacific Train deLuxe

- Soo-Spokane-Portland Train deLuxe

- Spokane-Portland Train deLuxe

The deLuxe phenomenon disappeared during the nationwide rationalization of passenger service during WWI, when such luxury services were deemed unnecessary during wartime conditions.  

The deLuxe moniker made a brief reappearance in the late 1920's-early 1930's but only on some trains that were associated with the New York Central - 

- Day Coach deLuxe

- De Luxe Special

- Niagara Falls De Luxe Special

- Royal Palm deLuxe

But by this time the term "deLuxe" became somewhat of anachronism in relation to travel since there were more "modern" ways of signifying exclusive luxury - namely giving a train "Limited" status or giving a train a unique name and then building a reputation behind it - such as the Chief.


Wanswheel, hats off to you and the floor is yours for the next question.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Thursday, March 31, 2011 9:44 AM

FlyingCrow

Hmm

We , that is Larry Goolsby..the author of two books on ACL & SAL passenger service (as well as the history of the AB&C) and myself find that we are also caught short on this.     

We'll collectively weigh in with:  The Southland.     

nope....

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Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, March 31, 2011 6:08 AM

Dixie Limited?

http://www.railroadheritage.org/ImageStorage/Img--00002299.jpg

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/qf/c/ModernMechanix/3-1938/med_milk_fuel.jpg

Excerpt from Railway Age Gazette, Nov. 22, 1912

The Chicago & Eastern Illinois, in connection with the Louisville & Nashville, Nashville Chattanooga & St. Louis, Western & Atlantic, Central of Georgia, Georgia Southern & Florida, Atlantic Coast and Florida East Coast, will about December 15 put on a train between Chicago and Florida, to be known as the Dixie de Luxe. The train will be made up wholly of Pullman cars through from Chicago to Palm Beach, via Evansville, Chattanooga, Atlanta and Jacksonville. It will leave Chicago about 10:30 a.m. daily, arriving at Jacksonville the next evening, and at Palm Beach the following morning.

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 8:51 PM

Hmm

We , that is Larry Goolsby..the author of two books on ACL & SAL passenger service (as well as the history of the AB&C) and myself find that we are also caught short on this.     

We'll collectively weigh in with:  The Southland.     

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 6:31 PM

henry6

The South WInd

nope...

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 6:31 PM

daveklepper

I'll weigh in  with the City of Miami

nope...

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 6:31 PM

KCSfan

this is just a SWAG but I'll say the Dixie Flagler.

Mark

nope...

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Posted by henry6 on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:31 PM

The South WInd

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 3:43 PM

I'll weigh in  with the City of Miami

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 3:13 PM

this is just a SWAG but I'll say the Dixie Flagler.

Mark

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:38 AM

FlyingCrow

All yours Z.O.

The Dixie DeLuxe was the original proposed name of what Chicago-Florida train?

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Thursday, March 24, 2011 7:45 PM

Z.O. is right.

The old Texas Rocket obs.....with a baggage door cut in the forward side.     However, no other changes so you'd see this thing rumbling out of Kansas City Union Station with the M&E getting a really good view of the scenery.   Was most peculiar.

All yours Z.O.

PS...I saw it in the consist of #39 once spliced between a Rock Island ex-troop sleeper and an SP 3 door heavyweight two-tone grey mail storage car.   Bizarre isn't the word.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:34 AM

I think the AT&SF had one loghtweight for use with a doodle-bug all headend car, an articulated doodle-bug at at that.

But in addition, the Waterloo Ceder Falls and Northern had two such cars at one time, and I rode one in the summer of 1952 with Ray DeGroot and "Giggles" Watson from Waterloo to Ceder Rapids and back and, next day, Waterloo to Waverly and back.   This was a heavy wood interuban car, engineer on a normal front platform, a baggage compartment, a coach section with regular two-and-two-seating, a parlor section with stuffed leather-covered movable armchairs, and brass-railed observation rear platform to which one could move two of the chairs in good weather. 

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Thursday, March 24, 2011 1:08 AM

ZephyrOverland

 FlyingCrow:

Well, since I "think" it's my time to ask another question and , in the spirit of all this "observation" chat....

Who operated the only (I know of) baggage-obs ????  Hmm

 

The Rock Island.

I'm sure Z.O. is right but just to keep the pot boiling it sounds like something the old SAL might have done on its old line thru Bradenton FL, hooked to a "Dude." 

 

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:28 PM

FlyingCrow

Well, since I "think" it's my time to ask another question and , in the spirit of all this "observation" chat....

Who operated the only (I know of) baggage-obs ????  Hmm

The Rock Island.  I believe it was the chair-observation "Missouri" that received a baggage section in the observation end.  The car was utilized in doodlebug runs.

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:03 PM

Well, since I "think" it's my time to ask another question and , in the spirit of all this "observation" chat....

Who operated the only (I know of) baggage-obs ????  Hmm

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:04 AM

Mountain View and Tower View were the blunt-end obs for the Broadway and never got buffer plates or diaphragms.  Others (PRR) did.   Including, I believe, the Senator and Congressional Budd blunt-end observation cars.   The New Haven took the Merchants Limited ROUND END observation cars, and cut train doors into the ends and equipped them with diaphragms and buffer plates so they could  be used mid-train.

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Posted by narig01 on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:13 PM

For what is worth column, and this may or may not be important, I remember that tat least one of the former Pennsy square obs cars had a full diaphragm on the observation end.  I recall seeing at New York Penn station sometime around 1970 and in the middle of a train. The reason I remembered so well is I had bought one an Atlas N scale model of it .  Rgds IGN

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 2:06 PM

Deggesty
 ZephyrOverland:
I don't know if these cars ever received vestibules on the blunt end for mid-train operation.

Do you mean buffer plates and diaphragms? These cars did have vestibules at what was the front end, so they could be boarded without having to pass through another car. I am not certain, but I believe that they did have buffer plates so they could be connected at the rear.

Those cars did have the buffer plates and diaphragms on the boarding side of the car, but originally there was no buffer plate and diaphragm on the blunt end side - just a service door and a drumhead.  I assume that eventually all of the blunt end sleepers did receive a regular pass through door and buffer plate and diaphragm.

This PDF link is to a Coach Yard brass ad that shows one of the cars as originally delivered:

http://www.thecoachyard.com/PDF/COSF.pdf

This link shows one of the cars with the buffer plate/diaphragm added:

http://archived.ggrm.org/about_the_museum/passenger/images_passenger/sp9053end.jpg

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:03 PM

ZephyrOverland

I don't know if these cars ever received vestibules on the blunt end for mid-train operation.

Do you mean buffer plates and diaphragms? These cars did have vestibules at what was the front end, so they could be boarded without having to pass through another car. I am not certain, but I believe that they did have buffer plates so they could be connected at the rear.

The observation cars (square end) for the 1956 Denver Zephyr had a diaphragm with buffer plate aswell as two windows and a door.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:54 AM

K4sPRR

Despite the popularity of the swallowtail or round end observation cars the railroads became weary of them because they could only be placed on the end of the train, there was no vestibule allowing access to other cars.  In addition putting the train together at various end points at times required a special move to properly place the car.

Blunt end cars, despite those built with unsightly vestibule doors became more the thing in the late 40's, early 50's.  The PRR built  blunt end cars that did not have vestibule doors, their reasoning was visibility, many passengers would complain about the reflection of the windows on round end cars creating glare and not being able to enjoy the view.

Santa Fe RR send their round end cars back to Pullman to be converted to the more practicle blunt end.  The B&O also bought into the blunt end to include doors giving the cars more versatility in their use.

The SP and UP blunt end cars that were the answer to the last question were different than the blunt end observation cars you mention.  The UP/SP cars were basically 10 roomette, 6 double bedroom sleepers with one end sheathed like a blunt end observation car but without the vestibule, windows or any lounge car facilities.  I think the reason these cars were built because, besides aesthetics, was economics.  It was a way for the railroads to increase lounge car revenues.  If a Pullman-operated observation lounge car was utilized, Pullman would get to keep the lounge car revenues.  The Cascade had a railroad owned and operated triple unit diner and lounge car and as a result, the SP got to keep all of the lounge car revenues.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the City of San Francisco utilized full railroad owned and operated lounge cars. 

I don't know if these cars ever received vestibules on the blunt end for mid-train operation.

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Posted by K4sPRR on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:44 AM

Despite the popularity of the swallowtail or round end observation cars the railroads became weary of them because they could only be placed on the end of the train, there was no vestibule allowing access to other cars.  In addition putting the train together at various end points at times required a special move to properly place the car.

Blunt end cars, despite those built with unsightly vestibule doors became more the thing in the late 40's, early 50's.  The PRR built  blunt end cars that did not have vestibule doors, their reasoning was visibility, many passengers would complain about the reflection of the windows on round end cars creating glare and not being able to enjoy the view.

Santa Fe RR send their round end cars back to Pullman to be converted to the more practicle blunt end.  The B&O also bought into the blunt end to include doors giving the cars more versatility in their use.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 5:36 AM

I could have answered the question if I had been quick enough, but as I remember, the trains did not have observation cars, but the assigned rear sleeper had the rear end without diaphragm and with an end mcuh like square-end observation cars, possibly lacking the two typical large windows.  Saw these cars but never rode in one.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, March 21, 2011 10:39 PM

FlyingCrow

Blunt ends.

Plan 9522A.....SP9025 through SP9029.

Confused 

Right, Bob; bluntly stated. Now for the benefit of the younger contributors, will you describe and explain the why of the blunt ends as you propound a new question? Incidentally, I was not aware of the two for the Cascade or the five for the CSF until recently. I recall watching the Sunset back into NOUPT once or twice in the sixties, but I do not really recall noticing the blunt end.

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Monday, March 21, 2011 7:52 PM

Blunt ends.

Plan 9522A.....SP9025 through SP9029.

Confused

 

 

 

 

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL

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