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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, March 21, 2011 7:04 PM

New question: in 1950, the Sunset Limited and the Cascade were re-equipped with lightweight cars. All of the sleepers on the Sunset  were 10 roomette-6 double bedrooms--but five of these cars were different from the rest (as two of the 10-6's on the Cascade, and five 10-6's built for the City of San Francisco were). How were these cars different?

Johnny

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Sunday, March 20, 2011 5:59 PM

Deggesty

 

 ZephyrOverland:

 

The question we've all been waiting for......

In 1954 the Sunset Limited was the first train ever in American Railroading to do what?

 

It seems to me that the Sunset Limited was the first train to enter the New Orleans Union Passenger Terminal, which was the first true union station in New Orleans since all the roads with passenger service used it. In 1953, I came into NOLA from Baton Rouge at the IC/GCL station, and left for Birmingham from the NO Terminal Station. The next time I was in the Crescent City, in 1960, I arrived on the L&N, left on the KCS, returned on the KCS, and left on the Southern--all at one station.

 

You got it!  The Sunset Limited was the first train to arrive at the New Orleans Union Passenger Terminal, on January 8, 1954.  Johnny, the next question is yours.

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, March 20, 2011 5:04 PM

ZephyrOverland

The question we've all been waiting for......

In 1954 the Sunset Limited was the first train ever in American Railroading to do what?

It seems to me that the Sunset Limited was the first train to enter the New Orleans Union Passenger Terminal, which was the first true union station in New Orleans since all the roads with passenger service used it. In 1953, I came into NOLA from Baton Rouge at the IC/GCL station, and left for Birmingham from the NO Terminal Station. The next time I was in the Crescent City, in 1960, I arrived on the L&N, left on the KCS, returned on the KCS, and left on the Southern--all at one station.

Johnny

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Sunday, March 20, 2011 7:46 AM

The question we've all been waiting for......

In 1954 the Sunset Limited was the first train ever in American Railroading to do what?

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Posted by passengerfan on Saturday, March 19, 2011 10:43 AM

West Coast Al here. As some already know this time I am up to my --- in the swamp with alligators. Actually I am busy doing taxes for my clients and don't really have time to participate but I look in to see whats going on when I can.

Al - in - Stockton

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Friday, March 18, 2011 9:30 AM

al-in-chgo

I bumped into the above from some time ago.  In the absence of fresh queries would it be okay for us to appoint West Coast  Al (aka 'passengerfan') as "da man" for the next question, assuming he wishes to pose one?  Are you da man, West Coast Al !  I myself will reluctantly volunteer the next question if folks okay it but I don't think it is the caliber of the recent questions.   -  Chicago al     Big Smile 

Al, the question you're referring to goes back to April of 2009.....

I'm still in the process of getting together the next question.  Please bear with me.

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Friday, March 18, 2011 3:08 AM

passengerfan

We are still trying to answer the Santa Fe Streamliner Question?

If no one else jumps in I will print the list this evening.

Al - in - Stockton

I bumped into the above from some time ago.  In the absence of fresh queries would it be okay for us to appoint West Coast  Al (aka 'passengerfan') as "da man" for the next question, assuming he wishes to pose one?  Are you da man, West Coast Al !  I myself will reluctantly volunteer the next question if folks okay it but I don't think it is the caliber of the recent questions.   -  Chicago al     Big Smile 

BTW and P.S.: -- I can't find the "Eleanor Roosevelt" site despite searching.  Can anyone advise?  - a.s.

If you prefer not to use this forum to reply, I can be reached directly at smalling_60626@yahoo.com

 

 

 

 

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:53 AM

Good job ZO, you've nailed this one. We anxiously await your next question Sir.

Mark

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 7:35 PM

KCSfan

In the winter of 1937 if you wished to travel in a drawing room between Detroit and Florida east coast cities you had a choice of several different trains and routes. Name these trains, the roads over which they were routed, and the cities between which each participating RR handled these trains/cars.

Mark 

The following is from the March 1937 OG:

Southland - Detroit-Miami car - 10 Section, 2 Compartment, 1 Drawing Room
Wabash Detroit-Ft Wayne (sb Mid City Express/Southland, nb - unnamed train)
PRR        Ft. Wayne - Cincinnati  (New Southland)
L&N        Cincinnati-Atlanta
CoG        Atlanta-Albany
ACL         Albany-Jacksonville
FEC        Jacksonville-Miami (SB carried on Miamian, NB carried on Flroida Special)


Flamingo - Detroit-Miami car - 10 Section, 2 Compartment, 1 Drawing Room
Wabash Detroit-Ft. Wayne (SB unnamed Detroit-St. Louis train, NB unnamed PRR/Wabash Chicago-Detroit train)
PRR        Ft. Wayne-Cincinnati (SB via Chicago-Cincinnati Union; NB via Cincinnati-Richmond and Richmond-Ft. Wayne train)
L&N         Cincinnati-Atlanta
COG        Atlanta-Albany
ACL         Albany-Jacksonville
FEC         Jacksonville-Miami (both ways via Havana Special)


Florida Sunbeam - Detroit-Miami car - 6 Compartment, 3 Drawing Room
MC/B4            Detroit-Cincinnati (SB via Florida Sunbeam-Royal Palm, NB via Michigan Special)
Southern Ry Cincinnati-Hampton
SAL                Hampton-Miami


Royal Palm - Detroit-Jacksonville car - 10 Section, 2 Drawing Room
MC/B4            Detroit-Cincinnati (SB via Florida Sunbeam-Royal Palm, NB via Michigan Special)
Southern Ry Cincinnati-Jacksonville


Ponce de Leon - Detroit-Miami car - 10 section, 2 Drawing Room
MC/B4            Detroit-Cincinnati (via Ponce de Leon both ways)
Southern Ry Cincinnati-Jacksonville
FEC                Jacksonville-Miami (via Havana Special both ways)

 

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 3:27 PM

I didn't notice until just now that Bob had lateraled the ball to me so here's the next question.

In the winter of 1937 if you wished to travel in a drawing room between Detroit and Florida east coast cities you had a choice of several different trains and routes. Name these trains, the roads over which they were routed, and the cities between which each participating RR handled these trains/cars.

Mark 

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Posted by AWP290 on Sunday, March 13, 2011 7:36 AM

If it is agreeable with everyone, I'll stand aside in favor of Mark.  He was first with an answer and was at leaast partially correct, and I asked the last question.

So Mark, its all yours.

Bob

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, March 12, 2011 9:22 PM

Well, Mark and Bob both have it right for the 1950 route: GaRR/ACL, with Augusta the junction (Bob did miss the numbers of the train between Sumter and Charleston: 52/53; 54/55 ran Augusta-Wilmington).

Bob has it right for the 1930 route: GaRR/SOU, with Augusta the junction.

Actually, in 1950, the ACL no longer ran passenger trains into Charleston, but stopped them in North Charleston, obviating a backup move for through trains, and, for most trains, providing bus service between the North Charleston station and a location called "City Market." When the ACL did operate passenger trains into the city, it used the same station that the Southern used. Using railroad license, the ACL was then calling its North Charleston station "Charleston," just as Amtrak calls its station in Rensselaer "Albany" (in 1930, the ACl was honest, and called the stop for all but the Palmetto Limited, 79/78, 89/80, and the local to Sumter, "North Charleston").

Mark's Southern/Blue Ridge/Southern route was set up some time after 1931 (I have no TT between 6/15/31 and 9/36)

Mark came through first, with the ACL/Ga route and the wrong Southern route, and guessing that there were two different stations (though he did not mention the North Charleston station), but Bob had both routes right, even though he was not certain as to the difference in Charleston stations.

Sorry, Mark, but I feel that Bob has the next opportunity to ask a question.

 

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Posted by AWP290 on Saturday, March 12, 2011 7:32 PM

In 1930 there was an Atlanta-Charleston Pullman via GaRR-Augusta-SouRy.

In 1950 (at least until the fall of that year) there was an Atlanta-Charleston Pullman via GaRR-Augusta-ACL.  This sleeper was shown in the May 1950 timetable but was gone by the time the November edition was issued.

As to the differences in Charleston, I know of none, other than possibly different depots.

The Georgia Railroad, at one time or another, handled a surprising number of Pullman lines.

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, March 12, 2011 7:16 PM

Johnny,

I know of two sleeping car routes between Atlanta and Charleston.

Georgia RR (#3 & 4) between Atl and Agusta and ACL (54 & 55) between Agusta and Charleston.

SR (#35 & 36) between Atl and Seneca, Blue Ridge (#17 & 18) between Seneca and Belton, and SR (#11 & 12) between Belton and Charleston.

I don't have ready access to OG's for the two time periods so I'll just hazard a guess that the GA/ACL route still ran in 1950.

The two routes terminated at different stations in Charleston. I believe the distance between the ACL and SR depots was somewhere between 1-2 miles.

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, March 12, 2011 12:52 PM

New Question:

1. In 1930, what route would you have taken to travel overnight, by Pullman, between Atlanta, Ga., and Charleston, S.C.?

2. In 1950, what route would you have taken to travel overnight, by Pullman, between Atlanta, Ga., and Charleston, S.C.?

3. What difference would you have found at Charleston in the two routes?

Johnny

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Posted by AWP290 on Friday, March 11, 2011 7:23 AM

No head-scratcher there!

Johnny knocked that one out of the park on the first pitch!

I thought the telegrapher part of that would derail most people. 

Take it away, Johnny.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, March 10, 2011 8:37 PM

AWP290

Okay, Buck , here goes:  We're going back a ways for this one.

As we all know, John Luther "Casey" Jones was an engineer for the Illinois Central Railroad when he was killed in a rear-end collision in Vaughn, Mississippi, on April 30, 1900.

The question is, in three parts:

1.  On what road was Casey Jones originally hired?

2.  In what capacity?

3.  Where?

Casey (Cayce, Ky., where he lived for a time) Jones was hired by the M&O as an apprentice telegrapher at Columbus, Ky.

Johnny

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Posted by AWP290 on Thursday, March 10, 2011 8:17 PM

Okay, Buck , here goes:  We're going back a ways for this one.

As we all know, John Luther "Casey" Jones was an engineer for the Illinois Central Railroad when he was killed in a rear-end collision in Vaughn, Mississippi, on April 30, 1900.

The question is, in three parts:

1.  On what road was Casey Jones originally hired?

2.  In what capacity?

3.  Where?

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Thursday, March 10, 2011 7:47 PM

Well, Bob, your questions are always real head scratchers so check back to you.

BTW...Turner was actually a little further away to be "moved" by ATSF.    The real reason for the move of some of the Turner neighborhoods was the 1951 flood, which I remember very well.     

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
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Posted by AWP290 on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 8:22 PM

I'd say Crow knew more about it than I did - my answer was a genuine SWAG (if you know what that is,) not legitimate knowledge.

If Crow'd like to ask the next question, I think he earned it.  If not, I'll be glad to do so.

Bob Hanson (AWP 290)

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Posted by K4sPRR on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 7:51 PM

AWP your the one who broke the ice on this one, so I guess its only fair that the next question be yours.  Two out of the three in my senario, so congratulations, you earned it.  Argentine KS was the curve ball in this question but as stated that was pre WWII.

In the book Railroading, the Modern Way by Kip Farrington published in 1951 tells of the post WWII expansion of Argentine yard and the town of Turner Kansas being moved to accomodate the expansion.  Turner Kansas was annexed into Kansas City, Kansas in 1965-66.  I once lived in not too far away Leavenworth KS  (lived, not confined) and really enjoyed all the rails in the area.  

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 7:28 PM

Ok, I've been on the sidelines because I grew up in this area, but if Argentine yard is the correct answer, then Argentine, KS was annexed into Kansas City, Wyandotte County, Kansas in 1910....hardly after WW2, so I'm not sure if this was what K4 was looking for.

Argentine, so named originally because of the large silver smelter that existed here at the turn of the 20th century, is mostly an ALL ATSF town, just like Armourdale, to the north of the river, belonged to the UP and Rock Island.

It's a huge facility, and a tour of the locomotive facilities here in the 50's was always a great Scout outing!

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
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Posted by AWP290 on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 4:05 PM

Not an expert on Kansas history, so this is a guess, but how 'bout Argentine, Kansas?

Again - strictly a guess.

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Posted by K4sPRR on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 3:47 PM

You got two of the three, now, the town that was moved and later annexed to a larger city in that great state of Kansas!

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Posted by AWP290 on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 11:56 AM

Are you thnking about Argentine Yard on the Santa Fe?

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

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Posted by K4sPRR on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 9:25 AM

You'r movin in, although, try looking at the other end of the state.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 3:12 AM

The City must be St. Louis, but I must confess I do not know the names of all the yards around the place.   Maybe this hint will help  someone else.

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Posted by K4sPRR on Friday, March 4, 2011 9:18 AM

Nope, post WWII era, near a city that carries a catchy tune if traveling to it.

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Thursday, March 3, 2011 9:14 PM

I would say SP, Rocklin -> Roseville except is was pre-WWI and is not in the Midwest.

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Posted by K4sPRR on Wednesday, March 2, 2011 5:59 PM

Post WWII modernization and expansion project of this large mid western yard facility mandated the moving of an entire town, building by building.  This town would later be annexed into a neighboring city.  Whats the yard the railroad and the town in question?

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