Deggesty The September, 1913 ACL timetable shows the northbound Palmetto Limited as the train from Key West, and the southbound Palmetto had through cars to Port Tampa. The Florida and West Indian Limited was the southbound train to Key West, and had through cars from Port Tampa to New York northbound.
The September, 1913 ACL timetable shows the northbound Palmetto Limited as the train from Key West, and the southbound Palmetto had through cars to Port Tampa.
The Florida and West Indian Limited was the southbound train to Key West, and had through cars from Port Tampa to New York northbound.
Ironically, Key West was the answer I had dropped a couple postings ago. Yes, the ACL gives the impression that the Palmetto Limited and Florida and West Indian Limited ran to/from Key West. But, in reality, south of Jacksonville the FEC operated the Over-Sea Limited (or Oversea Limited or Over Sea Limited depending on the source) as an independent train between Jacksonville and Key West. The Over-Sea Limited carried the following in mid 1917:
- 2 New York-Key West Pullmans from the ACL
- 1 New York-Key West Pullman from the SAL
- 1 New York-Key West baggage car from the ACL
- 2 Washington-Key West coaches and a diner from the ACL
- 1 Jacksonville-Key West Pullman
- 1 Palm Beach-Key West Pullman
- 1 Miami-Key West Pullman
- 1 Jacksonville-Key West mail car
I don't know the reason for the competing names for the New York-Key West service. In the FEC section of the August 1913 Official Guide, the FEC gives the impression that the Over-Sea Limited ran as a through train to New York. Furthermore, the FEC operated the Over-Sea Limited under various permutations during its existence. As mentioned earlier, it ran as an independent Jacksonville-Key West train. It also was the moniker of the ACL New York and Florida Special south of Jacksonville. Another season it ran as a combined train for the ACL New York and Florida Special and the SAL Seaboard Florida Limited, again the ACL and SAL advertising their trains as through to South Florida utilizing their individual names. By 1917 the existing schedule for the Over-Sea Limited became part of the newly created Havana Special.
Going back to your posting Johnny, Key West...nope. There are still two more destinations.
Johnny
narig01 WAG: Columbia, SC , Spartanburg SC & Atlanta, Ga? Thx IGN
WAG: Columbia, SC , Spartanburg SC & Atlanta, Ga?
Thx IGN
nope, nope and nope.....
hint -----> don't stray from the main line...
ZephyrOverland Deggesty: In the fifties, Wilmington, Savannah, and Augusta. Earlier (1930 specifically), Tampa, Jacksonville, Thomasville, and Brunswick were also southern termini. Savannah, yes Tampa, yes Jacksonville, yes Wilmington, Thomasville, Brunswick, Augusta - I'm going to say no. I should have specified the southern termini of the train itself, not just through cars. I also thought that Wilmington and Augusta would be included, but if you look at the SCL and ACL timetables of the 60's, the condensed schedule shows a schedule to Augusta and Wilmington, with through cars to the former, but those schedules are connecting trains. The train called the Palmetto ran short of those destinations. I know of three more destinations.
Deggesty: In the fifties, Wilmington, Savannah, and Augusta. Earlier (1930 specifically), Tampa, Jacksonville, Thomasville, and Brunswick were also southern termini.
In the fifties, Wilmington, Savannah, and Augusta. Earlier (1930 specifically), Tampa, Jacksonville, Thomasville, and Brunswick were also southern termini.
Savannah, yes
Tampa, yes
Jacksonville, yes
Wilmington, Thomasville, Brunswick, Augusta - I'm going to say no. I should have specified the southern termini of the train itself, not just through cars. I also thought that Wilmington and Augusta would be included, but if you look at the SCL and ACL timetables of the 60's, the condensed schedule shows a schedule to Augusta and Wilmington, with through cars to the former, but those schedules are connecting trains. The train called the Palmetto ran short of those destinations.
I know of three more destinations.
CORRECTION - there are only two, not three additional destinations. In rechecking my sources for this question one destination which I thought was a terminal for the train was only a destination for through cars.
KCSfan Columbia, Fayetville and possibly Norfolk? Mark
Columbia, Fayetville and possibly Norfolk?
Mark
nope, nope and nope......
Deggesty In the fifties, Wilmington, Savannah, and Augusta. Earlier (1930 specifically), Tampa, Jacksonville, Thomasville, and Brunswick were also southern termini.
ZephyrOverland K4sPRR: Congratulations, you are correct. Next question is yours. The Palmetto.... This name had been utilized on ACL (and SCL) trains from the pre-WWI years all the way to Amtrak. Unfortunately, it was never the "belle of the ball" train as such - it was always a secondary run. There were short periods of time when the Palmetto Limited was nearly equal to the ACL first tier trains, but when traffic downturns occurred, the train was re-regulated to a supporting train. As a result, the train had a number of southern termini. Name the cities that the Palmetto Limited (or Palmetto) used as its southern terminus.
K4sPRR: Congratulations, you are correct. Next question is yours.
Congratulations, you are correct. Next question is yours.
The Palmetto....
This name had been utilized on ACL (and SCL) trains from the pre-WWI years all the way to Amtrak. Unfortunately, it was never the "belle of the ball" train as such - it was always a secondary run. There were short periods of time when the Palmetto Limited was nearly equal to the ACL first tier trains, but when traffic downturns occurred, the train was re-regulated to a supporting train. As a result, the train had a number of southern termini.
Name the cities that the Palmetto Limited (or Palmetto) used as its southern terminus.
K4sPRR Congratulations, you are correct. Next question is yours.
ZephyrOverland I think it was the Deadhead Special.
I think it was the Deadhead Special.
Congratulations, you are correct. The next question is yours.
K4sPRR The depression certainly was not a good time for the Broadway, to increase revenues an RPO was added and with it came a not too kind nickname for the train, what was it?
The depression certainly was not a good time for the Broadway, to increase revenues an RPO was added and with it came a not too kind nickname for the train, what was it?
The Sack? The Pouch? The Bin? The Mailbox?
narig01 From: Narig01. To the readers of this thread. I want to offer my apoligies for my non response on 15 May. I thought I had disengaged from this. But I now realize I had answered correctly on both threads and only answered one. I am still following these for entertainment. Thank You for some patience Thx IGN
From: Narig01.
To the readers of this thread. I want to offer my apoligies for my non response on 15 May.
I thought I had disengaged from this. But I now realize I had answered correctly on both threads and only answered one.
I am still following these for entertainment.
Thank You for some patience
-- Happens to me, too, fella -- don't sweat it! - - al
Thanks, just as a note to Mr. Barringer's proposed names, they were quickly shot down as being too closely related to the NYC.
Staying with the Broadway theme in 1932, here's the next question; The depression certainly was not a good time for the Broadway, to increase revenues an RPO was added and with it came a not too kind nickname for the train, what was it?
daveklepper After WWII, The Wall Street was also introduced as a Philly Reading Terminal - Jersey City train, as a companion to the Wall Street , using semi-streamlined extensively modernized coaches. It and the Crusader did survive into the Aldene Plan relocation to PRR Newark Penn Station, and at that time were already converted to RDC operation with one having a snack-bar with counter seating on each train. Then the Crusader was dropped, and the Wall Street was the last train over the route, if my memory is correct. Both trains handled mostly Jenkintown - New York City commuters at the end, if my memory is correct, and the schedules, weekdays only, were set up for that. I suppose these commuters now drive over to an NEC station, possibly Trenton. Rode it.
After WWII, The Wall Street was also introduced as a Philly Reading Terminal - Jersey City train, as a companion to the Wall Street , using semi-streamlined extensively modernized coaches. It and the Crusader did survive into the Aldene Plan relocation to PRR Newark Penn Station, and at that time were already converted to RDC operation with one having a snack-bar with counter seating on each train. Then the Crusader was dropped, and the Wall Street was the last train over the route, if my memory is correct. Both trains handled mostly Jenkintown - New York City commuters at the end, if my memory is correct, and the schedules, weekdays only, were set up for that. I suppose these commuters now drive over to an NEC station, possibly Trenton. Rode it.
In 1980, I had the opportunity to ride the RDC version of the Wall Street/Crusader from Philadelphia to Newark round trip. Basically it was a commuter train and the bar area was not operating. It was the only time I ever rode an operating RDC.
K4sPRR April of 1932 they proposed changing the name to the "The 18 Hour Broadway" dropping the limited status.
April of 1932 they proposed changing the name to the "The 18 Hour Broadway" dropping the limited status.
I'm going to accept that answer but I was actually looking for another name. John Barringer proposed to the PRR that they rename the Broadway Limited the La Salle Street and the Wall Street to appeal to the clientele that they thought was still patronizing the Broadway at that time. I'm not sure if the PRR seriously considered those names. But apparently, they did seriously consider the 18-hour Broadway moniker along with dropping the Limited status of the Broadway and with it, the Broadway's special features. This was considered in April 1932, when the Broadway was running combined with the Spirit of St. Louis between New York and Pittsburgh. At the last minute though, they decided to keep the Broadway Limited name for the sake of saving face more than anything else. At the same time, they separated the Broadway and Spirit of St. Louis, with the latter receiving coaches. If they had dropped the Broadway name, the PRR feared it would be tacitly throwing in the towel, as it were, to the NYC and its 20th Century Limited as the premier service between New York and Chicago. Obviously, despite the depression, the PRR had the resources and the will to maintain an underutilized Broadway at least as a facade until times got better.
As for the Wall Street and La Salle Street names:
The Reading/Central Railroad of New Jersey applied the Wall Street moniker to a Philadelphia-Jersey City train and the Long Island had the Montauk-New York Wall Street Special.
The La Salle Street name was used by several railroads:
La Salle Street Limited - RI - Omaha-Chicago
La Salle - CEI - Chicago-St. Louis
La Salle - GTW/CN - Toronto-Chicago
La Salle Street Limited - NYCHR/LSMS New York Chicago
La Salle Street Special - NYC - Elkhart-Chicago.
K4sPRR, the next question is yours....
OK, here are some guesses:
Eastern Star, National Limited, National Express, Comet, Allegheny, Prosperity Limited, Prosperity Express, Prosperity Special
daveklepper Was it a name that was later used by the PRR on another east-west long-distance train?
Was it a name that was later used by the PRR on another east-west long-distance train?
No, but the name(s) were used in some form by other railroads.
Deggesty daveklepper: Was 1932 the time of a Chicago World's Fair, and did the name or names relate to it? The "Century of Progress" exposition was held in 1933 and 1934, but the planning began in 1928.
daveklepper: Was 1932 the time of a Chicago World's Fair, and did the name or names relate to it?
Was 1932 the time of a Chicago World's Fair, and did the name or names relate to it?
The "Century of Progress" exposition was held in 1933 and 1934, but the planning began in 1928.
... and the Century of Progress was used on a C&EI Chicago-St. Louis train.
daveklepper Was 1932 the time of a Chicago World's Fair, and did the name or names relate to it?
Not really, but I can say is that the proposed name(s) was to reflect the Broadway's presumed main clientele.
'CENTURY OF PROGRESS' was unoficially known as "Chicago World's Fair."
There were also numerous promotional tie-ins with railroad companies to get people in and out of the Windy City, but I don't think any one RR company per se sponsored the event.
There were technological goodies on display but not to the extent of the better-remembered 1939 World's Fair in New York City (Flushing, Queens), which was much larger. However, at Century of Progress the press, if not the average attendee, seemed to be most impressed by Miss Sally Rand and her exotic (or should I say erotic?) "fan dance," which used very large bird feathers (plumes) as cover and suggested nudity on Sally Rand's part, although that may have been an illusion; she moved too quickly to make it a certainty whether she was ever in the altogether before an audience, or just gave the impression of such.. (In much the same way as Hitchcock's 1960 film PSYCHO, which never actually portrayed a knife touching Janet Leigh's body, but the action moved so quickly it was hard to conclude otherwise without using some sort of freeze-framing device.)
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