Sorry for the delay - job search got in the way.....
As for the question -
In 1912, PRR's Pennsylvania Special was renamed the Broadway Limited. Approximately 20 years later there was a proposal to rename the Broadway Limited. What was the proposed name(s)?
Maybe it needs to be bumped again!
I bumped this thread because I'm not sure ZO knows he's up. !!
No, no, Z.O. has the floor -- for now!
We seem to have a technological tie between Z.O. and dragoman.
One suggestion: let the person who has not posed many questions lately have the privilege.
Just a thought - al
ZephyrOverland --
I do believe that the boarding scenes were done on a Hollywood set -- I saw a "special feature" documentary, filmed some years later, with Eva Marie Saint standing next to the those Hollywood train cars!
FlyingCrow --
It's a bit before my time, but is it possible -- in the "old habits die hard" department -- that, regardless of ownership or operation, people would continue to describe first-class and sleeping car accomodations "Pullman" (as they long did in England), and therefore the conductor pulling tickets in the sleeping car might still be called a "Pullman conductor"?
EDIT -- I see ZephyrOverland has addressed this while I was slowly typing away! Sorry!
FlyingCrow Q2. What's wrong with Grant saying "I've been playing hide and seek with the Pullman conductor..." ? Well, in 1959 a lot since NYC previously and abruptly dropped it's agreements with the Pullman Company in July of 1958. If he was dodging a Pullman conductor, the guy was on the wrong train.
Q2. What's wrong with Grant saying "I've been playing hide and seek with the Pullman conductor..." ? Well, in 1959 a lot since NYC previously and abruptly dropped it's agreements with the Pullman Company in July of 1958. If he was dodging a Pullman conductor, the guy was on the wrong train.
Technically, you're right, but keep in mind that the majority of the movie audiences who saw this film when it was first released were used to seeing a railroad and a Pullman conductor picking up tickets. The fact that the Central dropped its relationship with Pullman made its operation an exception, rather then the rule, in the eyes of the public.
A new question is on its way....
I think I need to save everyone some time here and just cave in. We can draw lots to see who will go next.
Q1. What two cars are seen,etc. Well the first is IMPERIAL STATE, a 4-4-2 of Plan 4069D built in 1939 and sold to the Illinois Central as their HOMEWOOD in 1962. But, wait...that's not really a 4-4-2, is it? No, in fact it's a blunt end SP 10-6 painted to look like the aforementioned NYC sleeper. You never see the rest of the train to see that all those cars are actually SP. Second car....when Thornhill and Kendall (Grant and Saint) are leaving the train (he's disguised as a Red Cap) at LaSalle Street Station (and yes it is....there's a Rock Island Switcher in the background) they pass QUINCY BAY , a 22 Roomette car built in 1948, not ONCE but TWICE as the movie set version of the Century you see here was but a locomotive and few cars from NYC's yards in Chicago. They shoot the walking scene twice to make the train look a lot longer than it really is...hence, they pass Quincy Bay twice.
Yes you do see two "conductors" in a previous scene as he hides in a lavatory. Closer examination reveals they are both wearing hats bearing NYC badges.
OK....draw lots and let's pick someone to move us forward!
UPDATE - MR ZEPHYR OVERLAND POSTED AT THE SAME TIME I POSTED THIS.... ALL YOURS Z.O.
FlyingCrow: Nobody taking a crack at the name of the two cars?
Nobody taking a crack at the name of the two cars?
[/quote]
I finally broke down and took a quick look at North by Northwest. The two cars are Imperial State, a 4 double bedroom-4 compartment-2 drawing room prewar sleeper, and Quincy Bay, a 22 roomette postwar sleeper. The car that was lettered Imperial State looked like a blunt end SP 10-6 sleeper - you can see the blunt end when Thornhill boards the car next to the Imperial State. Possibly, the boarding and departure of the Century was filmed in Hollywood , while the arrival sequence was filmed on location at La Salle Street station.
I finally broke down and took a quick look at North by Northwest. The two cars are Imperial State, a 4 double bedroom-4 compartment-2 drawing room prewar sleeper, and Quincy Bay, a 22 roomette postwar sleeper. The car that was lettered Imperial State looked like a blunt end SP 10-6 sleeper - you can see the blunt end when Thornhill boards the car next to the Imperial State. Possibly, the boarding and departure of the Century was filmed in Hollywood, while the arrival sequence was filmed on location at La Salle Street station.
henry6 But I do remember fluted stainless steel on NYC cars. And wasn't there an SP train or cars in NYC grays and lightning stripes?
But I do remember fluted stainless steel on NYC cars. And wasn't there an SP train or cars in NYC grays and lightning stripes?
As to the SP gray, I don't think that the cars built for the Cascade, Lark, and non-City Overland service had lightning stripes, but were simply two-tone gray. I do not know about the Golden State; neither Wayner nor Randall say anything about the color scheme for this train.
Johnny
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Score one for realism, Johnny!
On the other hand, speaking of production values for NORTH BY NORTHWEST, that was a wonderful cut from inside the train to outside, going up the Hudson. But if any NYC-owned and -plated cars were streamlined, wouldn't that be a mistake? The livery then was dark grey trimmed in white (or perhaps a very light gray a la CN). That may lend some credence to the idea that it was MGM's old Santa-Fe plated studio model Pullman that had been painted or plated over to show New York Central.
What happened to the No Duplicat Posts" program? I thought once was enough.
[snip, quoting Al-in-Chicago]"I'll take a WAG on one of the two NYC-looking cars. It was probably the set prototype (read: fake) of an ATSF sleeper, streamlined, the one that Fred Astaire left when he got off what was obviously an establishing shot of the GCT-bound 20TH CENTURY LTD in THE BANDWAGON, in 1953. I don't think such a thru routing was possible, not L.A.-NYC via ATSF&NYC, but that car looked very much a streamlined Pullman;"
SFe-NYC was one of the routings of transcontinental sleepers. At the moment, I do not remember just when the last such routings was abolished, but for several years there were two NY-LA sleepers on the Century--a 10-6 and a 4-4-2. Originally, they traveled on the Chief, but when the Chief was put on a one-night-out schedule westbound, the Super Chief began carrying them.
If he bought only a coach ticket but was "sharing" with a Pullman passenger, this while the train still carried cars operated by Pullman, then he would have to avoid being caught by BOTH conductors, not just the Pullman conductor. In addition to the Pullman space charge, there are both the issues of no step-up to RR first-class fare, plus prohibiltion against immoral conduct on the part of passengers.
FlyingCrow Al...asking or telling? "A little trouty" is correct..and the drink was a Gibson. A martini with an onion, not an olive. Nobody taking a crack at the name of the two cars? HINT: One car is not actually NYC, but painted for one.
Al...asking or telling?
"A little trouty" is correct..and the drink was a Gibson. A martini with an onion, not an olive.
HINT: One car is not actually NYC, but painted for one.
I'll take a WAG on one of the two NYC-looking cars. It was probably the set prototype (read: fake) of an ATSF sleeper, streamlined, the one that Fred Astaire left when he got off what was obviously an establishing shot of the GCT-bound 20TH CENTURY LTD in THE BANDWAGON, in 1953. I don't think such a thru routing was possible, not L.A.-NYC via ATSF&NYC, but that car looked very much a streamlined Pullman; it just happened to bear a "Santa Fe" plate. Even though 1953 was stil very much a train-going era, how many of the mass audience would have picked up on Fred's sleeper boasting what's probably the wrong road? Also I should note that MGM was the releasing studio both for THE BANDWAGON and for NORTH BY NORTHWEST six years later. This doesn't prove anything, but it lends credence.
BTW I have a lovely Question in mind should the occasion arise.
What was the date of the scene? Was it before or after the NYC sleeping car takeover?
NORTH BY NORTHWEST was a 1959 M-G-M release.
Dragoman By 1959, the date the film was released, hadn't the 20th Century been combined with the Commodore Vanderbilt, so that it was no longer all-Pullman?
By 1959, the date the film was released, hadn't the 20th Century been combined with the Commodore Vanderbilt, so that it was no longer all-Pullman?
That's correct....I might be wrong about this but I think when Tornhill was trying to get Pullman space on the Century at Grand Central Terminal, the ticket agent mentions that the Pullmans were sold out but coach space was available.
On the 20th Century Limited or any New York Central premier Pullman or Pullman and coach through train there would be a Pullman and a Railroad conductor, two conductors. After the New York Central took over its own sleeping car operations, the Pullman conductor was not necessary, and only the railroad conductor remained. And again, on some routes where never more than one sleeping car was operated, Pullman dispensed with a conductor and there was a Porter in Charge.
Henry, my good man --
I thank you (and all the other interesting answerers so far -- I hope there are more!). I don't feel picked on, but perhaps a bit misunderstood.
I do know that there is -- and was -- only one Conductor on a train. I was simply remarking on a scene in the referenced film, where 2 individuals in RR uniforms are apparently engaged in RR-related activities, and it is implied that their activity has something to do with the passenger count (which is what is relevant to the story line). Now, I couldn't quite make out their titles from their caps (or maybe just wasn't paying enough attention!). I assume that they were the Conductor and either an Assistant Conductor or Pullman Conductor, or even 2 Assistant Conductors (which, in either case, could IMHO be described as "2 conductors").
If I have stepped in it (again!), please don't blame Kalmbach for my not doing more or better research!
Dragoman In the scene just before the dining car scene referenced in the question, don't we see what appear to be 2 conductors, standing at the end of a chair car/coach, in front of the men's restroom (where our hero is apparently hiding), comparing notes and passenger counts?
In the scene just before the dining car scene referenced in the question, don't we see what appear to be 2 conductors, standing at the end of a chair car/coach, in front of the men's restroom (where our hero is apparently hiding), comparing notes and passenger counts?
I am not picking on you Dragoman but ATTENTION TRAINS/KALMBACH MANAGEMENT AGAIN. Here is a perfect example of the new fans not knowing what railroads were like prior to their entry to the pursuit. We need to do something better than what is being done.
Dragoman, there was only one train conductor and maybe a Pullman conductor. Others in railroad uniform were Trainman, Brakeman, Flagman, Collector, Assistant Conductor, and some others depending on the railroad.
"A little trouty."
Yeah, the famous NYC Brook Trout dinner. Go ahead AL. I'll leave the other question open if anyone wants to give it a whirl.
Bonus if anyone can name the drink Cary Grant is having.
I can't name that, Flying Crow, but I can tell you the adjective Eve Kendall (Eva Marie Saint) used to describe the trout at dinner!
A. Al.....no, you are not disqualified.
B. Wans .... great photo. Bonus if anyone can name the drink Cary Grant is having.
Ok, everyone, you're all hitting "around" the answer - like depth charges. BUT....only one of you has come somewhat close.
The link is to a scene with Eva Marie Saint at LaSalle St. Station, with blurry info about Des Moines Rocket, Peoria Rocket, Corn Belt Rocket and Nickel Plate Westerner.
http://forgottenchicago.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/northbynorthwest_lasalle.jpg
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