How about Mobile AL - Rome GA (357 miles) Southern Ry?
rcdrye How about Mobile AL - Rome GA (357 miles) Southern Ry?
Incidentally, three (including the subsidiary) of the roads shown were in receivership.
The 1893 Guide shows East Rome, and not Rome.
Johnny
When in Rome...
Since the CNO&TP didn't become part of the Southern Railway system until 1894, it's not the only possible routing. I could see an NC&StL (Western & Atlantic) to Chattanooga, NC&StL to Nashville, L&N to Louisville and Big Four to Chicago via Indianapolis, ending up on IC tracks north of Kankakee. That gives two state capitals, not one. Same applies to Rome-Southern-Knoxville(via Cleveland)-Southern-Harriman Jct-Tennesee Central-Nashville.
There was no Southern Railway System until in 1894. All of the roads that went into the Southern Railroad System were still operated seperately in 1893. The ETV&G ran from Bristol down to Brunswick and Mobile.
I should have added that the car went through only one state capital, which has been named--Indianapolis. How did it get from Rome to Cincinnati? Where was it switched?
I have a doctor visit this morning, and I hope to be back (without a hospital stay) by this afternoon.
Looks like Rome to Knoxville (SRy), then L&N to Cincinnati. Might have been switching at Cleveland TN just east of Chattanooga. I'm a bit fuzzy on the L&N lines but I seem to remember the Knoxville -Corbin line was absorbed by L&N at some point.
No, it did not go through Knoxville, nor did it travel on the L&N.
Deggesty No, it did not go through Knoxville, nor did it travel on the L&N.
Then I'm stumped unless you left a piece out, or Rome isn't the first place switching was done. 194 miles from Rome gets me about Oakdale on the CNO&TP. I can almost call Lexington KY a major city, but the whole thing falls apart when you say part of the route is no longer there - unless you're talking about the Southern's rework of the CNO&TP Rathole. Even an 1895 system map hasn't given me any new ideas, though it does show the SR line north out of Mobile as the Mobile and Birmingham to Selma.
rcdrye Deggesty No, it did not go through Knoxville, nor did it travel on the L&N. Then I'm stumped unless you left a piece out, or Rome isn't the first place switching was done. 194 miles from Rome gets me about Oakdale on the CNO&TP. I can almost call Lexington KY a major city, but the whole thing falls apart when you say part of the route is no longer there - unless you're talking about the Southern's rework of the CNO&TP Rathole. Even an 1895 system map hasn't given me any new ideas, though it does show the SR line north out of Mobile as the Mobile and Birmingham to Selma.
Yes, Rome is not the first place where the car was switched.
Yes, the road from Mobile to Selma was still known as the Birmingham and Mobile in 1893; but it is listed under the ETV&G. The ET&G was, as well as I can tell, constructed from Knoxville to Cohutta, and later was built into Chattanooga from Cleveland (Tenn.). (The ET&V was constructed from Bristol to Knoxville.) I am not sure as to when or by whom the road from Ooltewah to Atlanta, passing through Cohutta and East Rome was built; it may have been the ET&G, or even the ETV&G.
Incidentally, in 1893 the herald or emblem of the Big Four was a Maltese cross with a "4" in the center, and wording around the 4 and in the arms. So, there was a time when the numeral "4" was officially used.
I just noticed something interesting: there are two ETV&G schedules showing service south from a junction in the Guide: one shows the service down to Brunswick, and the other shows the service to Meridian. In the one, East Rome is at mp 80; in the other, East Rome is at mp 69. After examining the two, I will trust the Georgia Division mileage to East Rome, and not the Alabama Division mileage, for it shows what I know is the mileage to Atlanta.
Deggesty I'll go back a little farther than I had the last two or three times. In 1893, the World's Fair in Chicago was the place to go--especially according to the roads serving Chicago from the East, with several sleeper lines especially set up for such traffic. One unusual route began in a Southern port city, and ran more than 400 miles before entering a major city, from which it ran a little over 300 miles before reaching another major city, and then passed through a state capital on its way to the World's Fair. If you wanted to, you could get off the train within a block or two of the fairgrounds--but you had to go about three miles further find a good hotel. Wanted: the southern origin, the junctions where the car had to be switched (I count four), and the roads that carried the car (mid-20th century names will be accepted). The route is no longer possible, since it is broken in at least two places.
I'll go back a little farther than I had the last two or three times. In 1893, the World's Fair in Chicago was the place to go--especially according to the roads serving Chicago from the East, with several sleeper lines especially set up for such traffic.
One unusual route began in a Southern port city, and ran more than 400 miles before entering a major city, from which it ran a little over 300 miles before reaching another major city, and then passed through a state capital on its way to the World's Fair. If you wanted to, you could get off the train within a block or two of the fairgrounds--but you had to go about three miles further find a good hotel.
Wanted: the southern origin, the junctions where the car had to be switched (I count four), and the roads that carried the car (mid-20th century names will be accepted). The route is no longer possible, since it is broken in at least two places.
From what I've been seeing in other posts conerning this question this could be a Mobile, AL - Chicago through sleeper running on the following schedule:
Mobile-Selma = Mobile & Birmingham #64, Lv. Mobile 11:30 p.m., Ar. Selma 7:00 a.m.
Selma-East Rome = East Tennessee Virginia & Georgia #4, Lv. Selma 9:00 a.m., Ar. East Rome 4:35 p.m.
East Rome-Chattanooga = East Tennessee, Virginia & Georgia (Alabama Division) #18, Lv. East Rome 4:45 p.m., Ar. Chattanooga 7:10 p.m.
Chattanooga-Cincinnati = Queen and Crescent #6, Chicago Limited, Lv. Chattanooga 10:00 p.m., Ar. Cincinnati 6:30 a.m.
Cincinnati-Chicago = Big Four #1, Atlanta and Chicago Limited, Lv. Cincinnati 7:01 a.m., Ar. Chicago 4:35 p.m.
In the June 1893 Official Guide, the Q&C and ETV&G do not mention this sleeper line - only the Big 4 mentions this within their Atlanta and Chicago Limited consist listing.
For the 1893 Worlds Fair, Chicago became the terminus for a number of Pullman car lines that were newly established and also a number of other existing lines that were temporarily rerouted to Chicago. After the Fair, all of this extra Chicago sleeping car capacity was pulled from service. Like this Mobile-Chicago sleeping car line, a number of these new and revised car lines had unique routings that rarely made a reappearance.
Myron Bilas
Myron, you have it all. It is true that the ETV&G listing shows no sleeper into/out of Mobile; I wonder if after the Exposition ended, there was no longer Wagner (it was a Wagner car, not a Pullman car) service on the line to Mobile.
Well done, and welcome back!
ZephyrOverland Deggesty I'll go back a little farther than I had the last two or three times. In 1893, the World's Fair in Chicago was the place to go--especially according to the roads serving Chicago from the East, with several sleeper lines especially set up for such traffic. One unusual route began in a Southern port city, and ran more than 400 miles before entering a major city, from which it ran a little over 300 miles before reaching another major city, and then passed through a state capital on its way to the World's Fair. If you wanted to, you could get off the train within a block or two of the fairgrounds--but you had to go about three miles further find a good hotel. Wanted: the southern origin, the junctions where the car had to be switched (I count four), and the roads that carried the car (mid-20th century names will be accepted). The route is no longer possible, since it is broken in at least two places. From what I've been seeing in other posts conerning this question this could be a Mobile, AL - Chicago through sleeper running on the following schedule: Mobile-Selma = Mobile & Birmingham #64, Lv. Mobile 11:30 p.m., Ar. Selma 7:00 a.m. Selma-East Rome = East Tennessee Virginia & Georgia #4, Lv. Selma 9:00 a.m., Ar. East Rome 4:35 p.m. East Rome-Chattanooga = East Tennessee, Virginia & Georgia (Alabama Division) #18, Lv. East Rome 4:45 p.m., Ar. Chattanooga 7:10 p.m. Chattanooga-Cincinnati = Queen and Crescent #6, Chicago Limited, Lv. Chattanooga 10:00 p.m., Ar. Cincinnati 6:30 a.m. Cincinnati-Chicago = Big Four #1, Atlanta and Chicago Limited, Lv. Cincinnati 7:01 a.m., Ar. Chicago 4:35 p.m. In the June 1893 Official Guide, the Q&C and ETV&G do not mention this sleeper line - only the Big 4 mentions this within their Atlanta and Chicago Limited consist listing. For the 1893 Worlds Fair, Chicago became the terminus for a number of Pullman car lines that were newly established and also a number of other existing lines that were temporarily rerouted to Chicago. After the Fair, all of this extra Chicago sleeping car capacity was pulled from service. Like this Mobile-Chicago sleeping car line, a number of these new and revised car lines had unique routings that rarely made a reappearance. Myron Bilas
I am sure we all know that the Big Four's route from Cincinnati to Chicago no longer exists in its entirety, and there is no longer a railroad from Rome, Ga., to near Anniston, Ala. Otherwise, all of the route used by the car is still there.
In later years, there were two through sleepers between Chicago and Mobile--one on the GM&O and one on the C&EI-L&N.
Deggesty Zephyr Overland put it all together--southern terminus, roads, points at which the car was probably switched from one train to another, so I feel that he should ask the next question. I would have settled for the roads known to us today, but he did have access to the schedules. I am sure we all know that the Big Four's route from Cincinnati to Chicago no longer exists in its entirety, and there is no longer a railroad from Rome, Ga., to near Anniston, Ala. Otherwise, all of the route used by the car is still there. In later years, there were two through sleepers between Chicago and Mobile--one on the GM&O and one on the C&EI-L&N.
Zephyr Overland put it all together--southern terminus, roads, points at which the car was probably switched from one train to another, so I feel that he should ask the next question. I would have settled for the roads known to us today, but he did have access to the schedules.
I'll put up a new question some time this weekend.
What goes around, comes around....
There was a short-lived deluxe train that was established a few decades after the first transcontinental railroad was completed. A few decades later the same name was used on a train on another western line. About two decades after that another western railroad used a variation on that name for one of their streamliners.
Name the full name of the first two trains and the modified name for the third train.
California Special (Limited?) for the UP and AT&SF, and California Zephyr for the Q, D&RGW, WP.
daveklepper California Special (Limited?) for the UP and AT&SF, and California Zephyr for the Q, D&RGW, WP.
Nope...
The train names I'm looking for refer to something more specific than a state.
Clue -
"There was a short-lived deluxe train that was established a few decades after the first transcontinental railroad was completed." = UP
PROSPECTOR? 49ER?
daveklepper PROSPECTOR? 49ER?
no and no...
The Prospector was never a UP train name and the 49er was never a pure streamliner.
I'm thinking the first train was the joint UP-SP Golden Gate Special of 1888-1889 which ran from Oakland to the C&NW connection at Council Bluffs. Unfortunately I can't think of who operated the second Golden Gate Special but the streamliner's modified name would be Santa Fe's Golden Gate of the late 1930s.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD70M-2Dude I'm thinking the first train was the joint UP-SP Golden Gate Special of 1888-1889 which ran from Oakland to the C&NW connection at Council Bluffs. Unfortunately I can't think of who operated the second Golden Gate Special but the streamliner's modified name would be Santa Fe's Golden Gate of the late 1930s.
You got it! The UP-SP (or Central Pacific) Golden Gate Special of 1888-89 was an early attempt of a deluxe all-Pullman operation operating between Council Bluffs and San Francisco. Unfortunately, it may have been ahead of its time, as it lasted for less than a year.
SP used the Golden Gate Special moniker on one of their Portland-San Francisco trains around 1915-16 during the Panama-Pacific Exposition in San Francisco.
The third use of the Golden Gate name was used by Santa Fe for their Bakersfield-Oakland streamlined trains, which included a Los Angeles-Bakersfield bus connection. Despite the bus connection, the Golden Gate provided SP compeition for its Daylights.
You get the next question, SD70M-2Dude.
A Class I railroad designed and built 2 steam locomotives to a new design; they were the largest on the railroad when built. Despite proving successful (they held the same assignment for 25 years before diesels forced them to other work) they were not duplicated, instead their boiler design was used in an even larger locomotive type that became an icon of the railroad. Meanwhile the original 2 laboured in relative obscurity. Despite this both were preserved and are on display today.
Name both locomotive types (number series, railroad classification or wheel arrangement is fine). Bonus points if you can name the locations the original 2 are preserved at, and any survivors of the second type.
CPR 4-8-4's # 3100 and 3101 Class K-1 built by the CPR's Angus Shops. They were built for heavy overnight trains between Montreal and Toronto.
#3100 is preserved at the Natiional Gallery in Ottawa, Ontario and 3101, pictured above, is at IPSCO Family Park in Regina, Saskatchewan.
The boilers of the 36 T1 Class Selkirks 2-10-4's were based on the design of 3100 and 3101.
2 T1c Class Selkiirks are preserved, ( no T1a or T1b's preserved).
#5931 renumbered to #5934 is at Heritage Park in Calgary, Alberta.
#5935 is at Exporail near Montreal, Quebec.
You got it all Miningman, the next question is yours.
OK..the Q is...( easy one, somewhat amusing)...There were 2 Class 1 railroads that had the same reporting mark. They were thousands of miles apart. This resulted in cars and invoices arriving and being sent to the wrong place frequently. This craziness went on roughly from 1903 until after the war in 1946, when finally one of them changed their name and thus the reporting marks.
So, what are the 2 Class 1 involved. what was the identical reporting mark and what was the name change?
SD70M-2Dude-
I consider myself very fortunate in that I have seen every one of these 4 preserved locomotives as well as CN Northerns 6213, 6218, 6167 and 6400. Plenty of other wheel arrangements as well.
Sadly my picture wall will never include a NYC Hudson or Niagara or a PRR T1 or Q2...well I suppose one could photoshop one these days but you know what I mean.
Miningman:
What a wall you must have even with only those engines! I haven't made it to Montreal or Ottawa yet but I have been through Southern Ontario, and I hope you are remembering 6218 from her glory days cause she's a pretty sad, rusting sight today in Fort Erie. 6167 was cosmetically restored a few year ago and is in much better shape, and down in St. Thomas 5700 (nee 5703) is kept in immaculate condition inside the former CASO/MC/NYC shop there. They even keep all the bearings & air systems lubricated and move her around on a regular basis (with a diesel of course).
My experiences with steam mainly consist of volunteering at the Alberta Railway Museum and helping to maintain (and hopefully one day fire & run) our CN 4-6-0 1392 on select summer weekends, and passing by 4-8-2 6015 in Jasper whenever I work out of there. I have also seen the famous 6060 but only in her current cold, dead condition, and seeing her one day under steam is on my bucket list.
And we'll have to keep an eye on CP 3101, IPSCO sold her a couple years ago to a private collector with deep pockets (not quite deep enough to restore to operation unfortunately), and I have it on good authority that the new owner is planning to move her from Regina, destination is yet to be determined...
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