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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, August 27, 2016 10:06 PM

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, August 27, 2016 10:12 PM

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, August 27, 2016 10:30 PM

Drummond's poetry was very unique...it was the language of the "Courier de Bois", the 'Voyageur" and the "Habitant" ( the H within the "C" of the Montreal Canadian's or Canadienne's). The Québécois farmer and woodsman.

The interurban was the Nippising Central. In many places it paralleled the T&NO and there were some fierce pacing duels going on at times. 

I know little of the local politics in Cobalt except that all of Northern Ontario has been shamelessly forsaken by the provincial government for years. That is official policy. They state that only Sudbury and Thunder Bay are "sustainable". In the background of the Drummond plaque is a billboard listing over 120 mines that have been in production over the years. 

 

[/quote]

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, August 27, 2016 10:45 PM

A sample...( just go with it!)


So de sam' as two broder we settle down, leevin' dere han' in han',
Knowin' each oder, we lak' each oder, de French an' de Englishman,
For it's curi's t'ing on dis worl', I'm sure you see it agen an' agen,
Dat offen de mos' worse ennemi, he's comin' de bes', bes' frien'.

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, August 27, 2016 11:28 PM

Good stuff RME! You must have edited your posts as things appeared a bit later. It's all good. Glad you know about Drummond as not many do except locals and enthusiasts. 

The first picture shows the ONR ( nee T&NO) mainline passing by the headframe I mentioned. This was the Right of Way Mine. They missed this big deposit by 30 feet. The CPR hit the big massive sulphide base metal deposit while laying road bed through Sudbury. 

Question goes to RME.

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, August 27, 2016 11:50 PM

Incredible information Wanswheel. You are quite simply a genius! I really thankyou very much for this. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, August 28, 2016 6:01 AM

Key Stone

RME
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Posted by RME on Sunday, August 28, 2016 10:08 AM

Miningman
Glad you know about Drummond as not many do except locals and enthusiasts.

I should mention here that his 'moral successor', David Brydges, is finishing what promises to be a good biography.    Read this essay for more by Brydges about Drummond.

(Why the Poetrain Tour hasn't become a yearly event is not quite clear to me.)

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Posted by wanswheel on Sunday, August 28, 2016 11:46 AM
RME
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Posted by RME on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 4:41 AM

I'm not going to have time in the next few days to develop a question of nearly the scope and interest of this last one.  Miningman, ask another one in the meantime...

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 9:08 PM

Well thanks RME. Busy times for everyone...I started work last Monday and 45 students arrived this Monday. Plus I am moving into a new house in 2 weeks time. Hope the old ticker holds out with all this stuff going on as it severely failed nearly 2 years ago. However, as the cardiologist says, it's just a pump, I can fix that, ( and he did ), it's what's in your head, that's up to you!

Ok easy-peasy question. 

This interurban survived serving passengers until Apr. 23, 1955 in regular service. It's terminal is a very famous place, the largest inland fishery in the world, and a very popular place for the summer with its beach's and great restaurants. There are as many Americans in the summer as there are Canadians. 

Although it rolled through very rich farmlands through the south of this Canadian province it was two American Chapters of the NRHS, Syracuse and Buffalo, with their members that sponsored and rode 2 farewell trips, one on Apr. 24 and one on May 1, 1955. 

Printed on the tickets ( something Dave K. would nod in approval) was " To enjoy for yet another moment, the romantic saga of flanged wheels, air whistles and trolley wires". 

Freight operations lasted until Oct 1,1961 under wire. The big nasty parent company took charge, with Diesels, and the name was gone after 50 years.

Sadly all the tracks were ripped up, in sections, in the 80's and nothing remains. 

For the traction buffs, the 3 freight motors were originally equipped with 2 pantographs with 2 offset trolley poles designed to clear the pantograph's.

So...what's the name of the Interurban? What was its famous southern terminus? 

PS- Betcha anything that if that existed today as it did in 1955, it would be doing a gangbuster buisness, both passenger and freight. It was "green", efficient, convenient, downtown to downtown to several medium size cities ( 2 of them now 100,000+), quiet, and frequent service.  

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, September 1, 2016 9:49 AM

Niagra, Saint Catherins, and Toronto ---   never did get into Toronto!

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, September 1, 2016 10:11 AM

Sorry Dave-that's not it! 

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, September 1, 2016 10:58 AM

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, September 1, 2016 11:01 AM

The above picture is the May 1st, 1955 trip sponsored by the Buffalo Chapter NRHS on the Lake Erie and Northern. That was the last trip ever of the passenger cars. 

Good stuff Wanswheel ...the question goes to you!

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Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, September 1, 2016 12:47 PM

No doubt everyone has seen a photo of Harry Truman on the Ferdinand Magellan at St. Louis, returning to Washington after voting for himself at Independence, holding up a copy of the early edition of the Chicago Tribune, which needed substantial revision…

 http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1948/11/03/page/1/

There’s a much, much less famous photo of Thomas E. Dewey in the cab of a locomotive on March 10, 1945. What was the occasion?

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, September 1, 2016 9:00 PM

I've spent a lot of time now searching and searching for the answer with no luck! but sure learned a lot about Dewey! I've got to get back to packing and tending to lesson preparation for classes. Sorry. 

I did find a great quote from Presidents Roosevelts daughter, Anna, who said "Dewey looked the guy on the wedding cake". She is right bang on with that one! 

By the way, in my humble opinion, I think Harry S. Truman was truly a great president, certainly one of your best and I greatly admire the man. He talked straight up, made very good decisions, changed the world for the better ( formation of Israel as a nation, civil rights) was a great optimist, took little credit for himself instead giving credit to others ( Marshall Plan). Had great quotes. Truly a great man that was the right guy at the right time in history and he was a railfan! When he left office it was the end of an era and the true beginning of the end of the railroads. Administrations after him really had no use for them, considered them outdated and a relic of the past. America was at its very best when  "give 'em hell Harry" was where the buck stopped!

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, September 1, 2016 10:38 PM
LAKE ERIE & NORTHERN RAILWAY 209

This view of LE&N 209 was taken at Port Dover, Ontario sometime between 1915 and 1921. In 1921, this car was renumbered 733 and shortly thereafter, 797. Of interest is the LE&N logo over the left end window as well as the air whistle which the cars were originally equipped with.

Second from the left is messenger Benny Whittington, on the step is conductor Bill Wrigley with Motorman Rufus Mersil next to him. The other gentlemen are not identified on the back of the photograph. The photo was given to me back in 1969 by the wife of a former CP Electric Lines baggageman/messenger.

Click here for an enlarged view of the crew.
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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, September 1, 2016 11:03 PM

What a handsome motor eh! 

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, September 2, 2016 8:38 AM

Governor Dewey joined in a dedication ceremony for NYC's new S-1b Niagaras at Croton-Harmon NY in 1946.  I would assume the photo either dates from a similar dedication for the 1945 S-1a prototype #6000 or the date for the S-1b ceremony was actually in 1945. 

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Posted by wanswheel on Friday, September 2, 2016 9:20 AM

Rob, that’s terrific,1945 of course, your turn.

Excerpt from Central Headlight, April 1945

http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/headlight/images/headlight-0445.pdf

The Governor, who received a warm greeting, said:

 

"I give you my word that I did not bring this snow storm from Albany with me; just to make sure, I checked up and found that you had it before we did.

 

"Nevertheless, I cannot think of a more auspicious occasion than this demonstration of magnificent cooperation between two of the most productive forces in the State of New York, a railroad which for 114 years has carried the life-blood of our State up and down the Hudson River and across the State from Albany to Buffalo and then to the rest of the Nation. Everywhere you go around the United States the New York Central is a standard of comfort and travel.

 

"I am proud to be Governor of a State which has one of the greatest railroads in the world named for it and we are all proud of its forward-looking and progressive advances even during war time.

 

"One of the tests of a crack up of a Nation is what happens to its railroads and when you see the stories of the wrecks on the German lines you know that the beginning of the end is not too far away. On the contrary we find right here in Schenectady that instead of having deterioration we are today dedicating the greatest engine ever produced for the New York Central and that I may say is the symbol of the fact that America is marching toward victory while our enemies are slowly falling to pieces. It is even more than a symbol of victory. It is a symbol of the great cooperation that exists in our State between management and labor.

 

"I understand that collective bargaining has progressed here at the American Locomotive Company peacefully and harmoniously and without one major strike since the beginning of the war. I want to tell the men working in these yards that we are proud and grateful of the magnificent record they have made for Schenectady, for the State, and for the world throughout this war.

 

"These haven't been easy times to keep production up to the maximum. There have been rising costs of living and greater difficulties getting to and from work, training new men, losing some of your best men to the war and yet you have carried on and right here at the climax of the war, under the greatest manpower stress in history you have produced this magnificent giant and I wish everyone in our State could see and admire it as it rolled out of that engine house.

 

"Accordingly, it seems to me that we are celebrating here a symbol of victory and of the future greater productivity which will produce greater living standards in our country after the war.

 

"This engine, which today is to be named the Niagara, is another in the long line of great railroad engines on the New York Central, which has carried the name of New York State throughout the western half of the United States. It follows its great predecessors the Mohawk and Hudson series, and it is interesting to reflect upon its earliest predecessor the De Witt Clinton. Do you all remember what happened, as you recall in your history books, 114 years ago, one of the great days in our history was when the great DeWitt Clinton steamed all the way from Albany to Schenectady. It weighed six tons and traveled at the breathtaking pace of 30 miles an hour pulling a couple of stage coach cars behind it.

 

"Today we have here an engine which weighs not six tons, but 445 tons. It took 63,000 man hours to build it, and it is designed to travel over 100 miles per hour, pulling passenger trains, but I hope you don't go quite that fast. I had a little experience last summer in the State of Washington when a train going 50 miles an hour, which was too fast then, ran into the back of the one ahead of us.

 

"So as you have carried on in the face of every difficulty here, you are entitled, I think, to the thanks of every citizen of our State, the management and labor and to all the citizens of the community for your great contribution to the war effort. It augurs well for victory and for great days when peace comes. I congratulate you as Governor of the State and personally, I want to say 'Great doing and many more things like this to come.' "

 

Excerpt from The Niagara Story by Thomas R. Gerbracht

https://nycshs.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/the-niagara-story.pdf

https://nycshs.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/niagara21.pdf

 

For the purpose of investigating the effect of driving wheel diameter on locomotive performance, locomotive No. 6000 was delivered to the Railroad with driving wheels of 75 inch diameter, but a set of 79 inch drivers was also provided for later use. The original intention had been to conduct performance and capacity tests of the locomotive while equipped with 75-inch driving wheels, then to replace these with the 79-inch drivers, increasing the boiler pressure to maintain the same tractive force, and then to place the locomotive in regular service. These plans were changed, however, and the locomotive was placed in road service with the 75-inch drivers. After making several trips between Harmon and Chicago, it was placed in Harmon-Cleveland service for several weeks. Then the 79 inch wheels were installed early in July, and the locomotive was assigned to one side of the Commodore Vanderbilt between Harmon and Chicago. Here it was running at the rate of about 27,000 miles a month and up to the middle of August had accumulated a total of about 60,000 miles. The Commodore Vanderbilt was a heavy train with a number of stops and was considered a hard run. The locomotive was said to have made easy work of it.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, September 2, 2016 1:57 PM

Mr Dewey's name was applied to a passenger car.  Railroad, Train name, inauguration date and why his name was on the car.

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Posted by wanswheel on Friday, September 2, 2016 3:34 PM

Thanks to the inventor of Classic Trains Questions...

passengerfan

 

EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS
New York
– Cleveland - Detroit
(December 7, 1941)
New York
– Cleveland 605 miles
New York
– Detroit 687 miles

The New York Central System inaugurated the two train sets that comprised the lightweight streamlined EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS on December 7, 1941 between New York City at the one end and both Cleveland and Detroit at the other. This date is best remembered as the date the United States Naval base at Pearl Harbor and other military installations in Hawaii were attacked by Imperial Japanese forces plunging the U. S. into WW II. The Detroit and Cleveland sections of the EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS split at Buffalo with the Detroit section operating across Southern Ontario to its destination. This section was generally anywhere from one to three Parlor cars a dining car and two or more coaches. The remaining cars operated through to and from Cleveland the two New York Central EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS lightweight streamliners departed from their respective terminals and after exchanging their Electric Locomotives at Harmon and the outskirts of Cleveland on the west. The new J3A streamlined 4-6-4 Hudson Locomotives and Tenders took over for the run to the opposite electrified territory. The two streamlined J3A Hudson Locomotive and tenders were 5426 and 5429 with stainless steel installed on the tenders to match the trailing consists and stainless steel installed on the boiler Jacket cover. The roofs of the otherwise all stainless steel Budd built consists were painted black and the top of the Tender and Locomotive were painted black to match. The EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS consists shown below were between Buffalo and New York City on December 7, 1941. The named cars in each train set were named for former Governors of the State of New York.

FIRST CONSIST

5426 Streamlined J3A 4-6-4 Hudson Locomotive & Tender

ALONZO B. CORNELL Baggage 60
’ Railway Post Office Car

GROVER CLEVELAND Baggage Buffet 36 seat Lounge Car

CHARLES E. HUGHES 30 Revenue seat Parlor Car with 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room

HERBERT H. LEHMAN 30 Revenue seat Parlor Car with 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room

NATHAN L. MILLER 30 Revenue seat Parlor Car with 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room

GEORGE CLINTON 44 seat Dining Car

REUBEN E. FENTON 56 Revenue seat Coach

2569 56 Revenue seat Coach

2567 56 Revenue seat Coach

2566 56 Revenue seat Coach

HAMILTON FISH 56 Revenue seat Coach

DEWITT CLINTON 44 seat Dining Car

DAVID B. HILL 56 Revenue seat Coach

MORGAN LEWIS 56 Revenue seat Coach

WILLIAM L. MARCY 56 Revenue seat Coach

THEODORE ROOSEVELT 56 seat Tavern Bar Lounge Observation

SECOND CONSIST

5429 Streamlined J3A 4-6-4 Hudson Locomotive & Tender

JOHN A. DIX Baggage 60
’ Railway Post Office Car

MARTIN VAN BUREN Baggage Buffet 36 seat Lounge Car

LEVI P. MORTON 30 Revenue seat Parlor Car with 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room

ALFRED E. SMITH 30 Revenue seat Parlor Car with 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room

SAMUEL J. TILDEN 30 Revenue seat Parlor Car with 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room

JOHN JAY 44 seat Dining Car

2564 56 Revenue seat Coach

EDWIN D. MORGAN 56 Revenue seat Coach

2565 56 Revenue seat Coach

2568 56 Revenue seat Coach

WILLIAM H. SEWARD 56 Revenue seat Coach

HORATIO SEYMOUR 44 seat Dining Car

DANIEL D. TOMPKINS 56 Revenue seat Coach

CHARLES S. WHITMAN 56 Revenue seat Coach

SILAS WRIGHT 56 Revenue seat Coach

FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT 56 seat Tavern Bar Lounge Observation

Al - in - Stockton

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, September 2, 2016 4:06 PM

wanswheel
2564 56 Revenue seat Coach

2654 didn't get its name until 1954, when Gov. Dewey finished his third term.  It was one of the six extra (2654-2659) unnamed coaches from the 1941 Budd trains.

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Posted by wanswheel on Friday, September 2, 2016 6:08 PM

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, September 2, 2016 7:09 PM

You mean the answer was found on the CASO website! I will NEVER live this down. 

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, September 3, 2016 12:22 PM

Thinking that for most of us the demise of the Niagara's and T1's in such short order was beyond comprehension, something that was very difficult to get your head around. The very boldness and newness of these incredibly designed locomotives was, for us, a technical wonderment and the future was here. The press releases, the coverage and the technical writings all confirmed this. They were inspiring, capable of doing anything and untouchable in their performance. 

To find out, almost immediatly, that these powerful marvels were obsolete just could not be. It was just the foreshadowing of what was to come. Best of times, worst of times. 

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Posted by wanswheel on Saturday, September 3, 2016 4:40 PM

Originally the LIRR intended to build a straight line from Jamaica to the Greenport, but they changed their mind at Hicksville, and veered to the right (southeast) to avoid some hills, particularly including the hills of Bethpage State Park, which 100 years ago was the estate of a rich Texan, a former chairman of the Frisco, who moved to New York to be a banker.  What was his name?

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